I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip
with the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.

--
Adam

On 28/03/2021 16:02, ARW wrote:
I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip
with the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.


I am not a fan of extra regulation without cost-benefit assessment but
that seems a strong case to at least explore with stakeholders requiring
landlords to give tenants advice/instruction to test RCD(s) every 3
months. Could be added on to the requirement to give them a copy of the
EICR.



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 28 Mar 2021 at 16:23:03 BST, "Robin" wrote:

On 28/03/2021 16:02, ARW wrote:
I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip
with the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.


I am not a fan of extra regulation without cost-benefit assessment but
that seems a strong case to at least explore with stakeholders requiring
landlords to give tenants advice/instruction to test RCD(s) every 3
months. Could be added on to the requirement to give them a copy of the
EICR.

One of mine trips several times a week, whenever their is a brief power
outage, which is that often, although perhaps there is a lot of baseline earth
leakage.[1} Is this common, it is a little annoying?

[1] I can't reset it without disconnecting one of the power circuits quite
often, one day I'll look into it.

--
Roger Hayter

On 28/03/2021 17:01, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 28 Mar 2021 at 16:23:03 BST, "Robin" wrote:

On 28/03/2021 16:02, ARW wrote:
I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip
with the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.

I test mine (a local one on the extension lead) before cutting the hedge.

I am not a fan of extra regulation without cost-benefit assessment but
that seems a strong case to at least explore with stakeholders requiring
landlords to give tenants advice/instruction to test RCD(s) every 3
months. Could be added on to the requirement to give them a copy of the
EICR.

One of mine trips several times a week, whenever their is a brief power
outage, which is that often, although perhaps there is a lot of baseline earth
leakage.[1} Is this common, it is a little annoying?

Might be worth looking for the earth leakage. Immersion heaters are big
suspects in that sort of borderline trip thing. Mine went to a hard fail
a few weeks back but there were hints of something every now and then.

[1] I can't reset it without disconnecting one of the power circuits quite
often, one day I'll look into it.

You might want to look at the offending circuit to find the fault.

I had an interesting one that was a hard fault in the kitchen ring main
that really wouldn't go away. Turned out the kitchen fitters had put a 2
connection junction box on the floor with the lid on allowing 3 ways in
and a slug had got into it and then been electrocuted.

Dead slug and slime proved to be remarkably conductive

No idea how the slug came to be in the kitchen.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 28/03/2021 16:23, Robin wrote:
On 28/03/2021 16:02, ARW wrote:
I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip
with the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.


I am not a fan of extra regulation without cost-benefit assessment but
that seems a strong case to at least explore with stakeholders requiring
landlords to give tenants advice/instruction to test RCD(s) every 3
months.Â* Could be added on to the requirement to give them a copy of the
EICR.




Adam is suggesting that all householders should do this, so why should
tenants need special advice?

Mind you, I haven't had a gas safety check done in the 22 years I've
lived in this house.

On 28/03/2021 17:20, GB wrote:
On 28/03/2021 16:23, Robin wrote:
On 28/03/2021 16:02, ARW wrote:
I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip
with the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.


I am not a fan of extra regulation without cost-benefit assessment but
that seems a strong case to at least explore with stakeholders
requiring landlords to give tenants advice/instruction to test RCD(s)
every 3 months.Â* Could be added on to the requirement to give them a
copy of the EICR.




Adam is suggesting that all householders should do this, so why should
tenants need special advice?

Possibly because they do not do any electrical DIY!

But seriously I am suggesting that any readers of this post actually try
their RCD test button if they have not done so for years.



--
Adam

"GB" wrote in message
...
On 28/03/2021 16:23, Robin wrote:
On 28/03/2021 16:02, ARW wrote:
I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip
with the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.


I am not a fan of extra regulation without cost-benefit assessment but
that seems a strong case to at least explore with stakeholders requiring
landlords to give tenants advice/instruction to test RCD(s) every 3
months. Could be added on to the requirement to give them a copy of the
EICR.

Adam is suggesting that all householders should do this,

Nope, just us in here.

so why should tenants need special advice?

Because they mostly wouldnt have a ****ing clue what an RCD is.

Mind you, I haven't had a gas safety check done in the 22 years I've lived
in this house.

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 06:14:16 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

Adam is suggesting that all householders should do this,

Nope

Get treatment, senile ****head! Or, better, swallow your nembutal! What are
you waiting for? Everyone will despise you for as long as you breathe!

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On 28/03/2021 17:20, GB wrote:
On 28/03/2021 16:23, Robin wrote:
On 28/03/2021 16:02, ARW wrote:
I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip
with the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.


I am not a fan of extra regulation without cost-benefit assessment but
that seems a strong case to at least explore with stakeholders
requiring landlords to give tenants advice/instruction to test RCD(s)
every 3 months.Â* Could be added on to the requirement to give them a
copy of the EICR.




Adam is suggesting that all householders should do this, so why should
tenants need special advice?


I am not suggesting tenants /need/ special advice.

I am suggesting the way landlords must give tenants bumf about their
installation at least once every 5 years may provide a cost-effective
way to remind to test their RCD(s) periodically. (But I would also wager
tenants are on average more clueless about such things.)

I am agnostic as to whether it would be cost-effective to remind other
householders.

How about we start with a survey of a totally unrepresentative sample of
what happens now. When did you and others last test your RCD(s)?

[I check mine once a year with a (many years-since-it-was-calibrated)
tester - starting at the lowest current and working up. But then I'm
cautious 'cos I know the numpty who did most of the wiring.]



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

ARW wrote:

I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip
with the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.

I'm surprised an RCD that's temperamental like that isn't regarded as
faulty and needs replacing? Who's to say how quickly after TIOATIOA it
becomes temperamental again?

On 28/03/2021 16:52, Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip
with the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.

I'm surprised an RCD that's temperamental like that isn't regarded as
faulty and needs replacing?Â* Who's to say how quickly after TIOATIOA it
becomes temperamental again?

I have had different views on that.


--
Adam

On 28/03/2021 17:53, ARW wrote:
On 28/03/2021 16:52, Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip
with the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.

I'm surprised an RCD that's temperamental like that isn't regarded as
faulty and needs replacing?Â* Who's to say how quickly after TIOATIOA
it becomes temperamental again?

I have had different views on that.

Our (whole house) RCD frequently tripped. It was pretty well on the edge
all the time due to the number of items of computer equipment with their
leaky filters (a dual PSU server, 4 and at times 5 PCs, plus printers,
satellite boxes, etc.)

I have had no problems at all since I took out the RCD and fitted RCBOs
- a slightly complicated task as it is an old Crabtree Starbreaker with
a 14-way busbar that needed to be changed from a split one to a
continuous one ... and you can only buy the 15-way versions for the
newer Starbreakers. In the end, I had to buy a 15-way, carefully remove
the end plastic (which includes the mounting), cut down the busbar and
re-attach the end.

On 28/03/2021 16:02, ARW wrote:
I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip
with the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.


Would connecting up a low wattage bulb between RCD live and
non-RCD neutral so that a known number of millamps creates
an imbalance - and should trip it ??

On 28/03/2021 18:31, Andrew wrote:
On 28/03/2021 16:02, ARW wrote:
I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip
with the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.


Would connecting up a low wattage bulb between RCD live and
non-RCD neutral so that a known number of millamps creates
an imbalance - and should trip it ??

Surely that's basically what the RCD's own test button does and just
connects a known resistance between its outgoing live and its incoming
neutral?

Which reminded me, why is it that a breaker of any type often seems, maybe
through never having been tripped for years can take too long to trip when
it finally does have a fault to protect against which can often mean a whole
fitting needs to be replaced due to overheating. Is it just build up of crud
or whatever, and should one say every few months manually trip these one at
a time to make sure they keep healthy?

Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"ARW" wrote in message
...
I seem to be getting a lot of RCD failures when the RCD does not trip with
the test button of with the RCD tester.

But after manually turning the RCD off and back on it works within spec.

So give yours a test. It could save you from a belt.

--
Adam

On 29 Mar 2021 at 10:15:39 BST, ""Brian Gaff \" Sofa\)"
wrote:

Which reminded me, why is it that a breaker of any type often seems, maybe
through never having been tripped for years can take too long to trip when
it finally does have a fault to protect against which can often mean a whole
fitting needs to be replaced due to overheating. Is it just build up of crud
or whatever, and should one say every few months manually trip these one at
a time to make sure they keep healthy?

Brian

It is normally printed on the front of them that they should be tested
periodically. But you are not alone in not seeing that!

--
Roger Hayter

On 29/03/2021 12:45, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 29 Mar 2021 at 10:15:39 BST, ""Brian Gaff \" Sofa\)"
wrote:

Which reminded me, why is it that a breaker of any type often seems, maybe
through never having been tripped for years can take too long to trip when
it finally does have a fault to protect against which can often mean a whole
fitting needs to be replaced due to overheating. Is it just build up of crud
or whatever, and should one say every few months manually trip these one at
a time to make sure they keep healthy?

Brian

It is normally printed on the front of them that they should be tested
periodically. But you are not alone in not seeing that!


I think Brian might be referring to how MCBs (and RCBOs) perform with
over current rather than how RCDs (and RCBOs) perform with an imbalance.
Testing how breakers perform with stable, over & short-circuit
currents requires special kit. I'd be interested to know if even Adam
carries it routinely.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 29 Mar 2021 at 13:41:31 BST, "Robin" wrote:

On 29/03/2021 12:45, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 29 Mar 2021 at 10:15:39 BST, ""Brian Gaff \" Sofa\)"
wrote:

Which reminded me, why is it that a breaker of any type often seems, maybe
through never having been tripped for years can take too long to trip when
it finally does have a fault to protect against which can often mean a whole
fitting needs to be replaced due to overheating. Is it just build up of crud
or whatever, and should one say every few months manually trip these one at
a time to make sure they keep healthy?

Brian

It is normally printed on the front of them that they should be tested
periodically. But you are not alone in not seeing that!


I think Brian might be referring to how MCBs (and RCBOs) perform with
over current rather than how RCDs (and RCBOs) perform with an imbalance.
Testing how breakers perform with stable, over & short-circuit
currents requires special kit. I'd be interested to know if even Adam
carries it routinely.

Oh I see - as you say, I'm not sure anyone tests them. And I think his point
is an invalid one, because MCBs don't protect against overheating in most
cases even if working correctly.

--
Roger Hayter

On 29/03/2021 13:41, Robin wrote:
On 29/03/2021 12:45, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 29 Mar 2021 at 10:15:39 BST, ""Brian Gaff \" Sofa\)"
wrote:

Which reminded me, why is it that a breaker of any type often seems,
maybe
through never having been tripped for years can take too long to trip
when
it finally does have a fault to protect against which can often mean
a whole
fitting needs to be replaced due to overheating. Is it just build up
of crud
or whatever, and should one say every few months manually trip these
one at
a time to make sure they keep healthy?

Brian

It is normally printed on the front of them that they should be tested
periodically.Â* But you are not alone in not seeing that!


I think Brian might be referring to how MCBs (and RCBOs) perform with
over current rather than how RCDs (and RCBOs) perform with an imbalance.
Testing how breakers perform with stable, over & short-circuit currents
requires special kit.Â* I'd be interested to know if even Adam carries it
routinely.


No.

--
Adam

On 30/03/2021 18:48, ARW wrote:
On 29/03/2021 13:41, Robin wrote:
On 29/03/2021 12:45, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 29 Mar 2021 at 10:15:39 BST, ""Brian Gaff \" Sofa\)"
wrote:

Which reminded me, why is it that a breaker of any type often seems,
maybe
through never having been tripped for years can take too long to
trip when
it finally does have a fault to protect against which can often mean
a whole
fitting needs to be replaced due to overheating. Is it just build up
of crud
or whatever, and should one say every few months manually trip these
one at
a time to make sure they keep healthy?

Brian

It is normally printed on the front of them that they should be tested
periodically.Â* But you are not alone in not seeing that!


I think Brian might be referring to how MCBs (and RCBOs) perform with
over current rather than how RCDs (and RCBOs) perform with an
imbalance. Testing how breakers perform with stable, over &
short-circuit currents requires special kit.Â* I'd be interested to
know if even Adam carries it routinely.


No.


Thanks for not pointing out that it was a bloody stupid question. I was
ignorant of how much a tester costs until I idly looked over coffee this
morning.



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 29/03/2021 13:41, Robin wrote:
On 29/03/2021 12:45, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 29 Mar 2021 at 10:15:39 BST, ""Brian Gaff \" Sofa\)"
wrote:

Which reminded me, why is it that a breaker of any type often seems,
maybe
through never having been tripped for years can take too long to trip
when
it finally does have a fault to protect against which can often mean
a whole
fitting needs to be replaced due to overheating. Is it just build up
of crud
or whatever, and should one say every few months manually trip these
one at
a time to make sure they keep healthy?

Brian

It is normally printed on the front of them that they should be tested
periodically.Â* But you are not alone in not seeing that!


I think Brian might be referring to how MCBs (and RCBOs) perform with
over current rather than how RCDs (and RCBOs) perform with an imbalance.
Â*Testing how breakers perform with stable, over & short-circuit
currents requires special kit.Â* I'd be interested to know if even Adam
carries it routinely.

Testing is currently carried out with no load. I think the behaviour of
the MCB would be the arbiter of what happens in an over-current or fault
condition.

Perhaps in future, as we have a number of different RCD characteristics,
some cope with DC, others with HF currents etc, there is a chance that
testing will require tests performed under these conditions?