"A series of €˜modifications to the Smart Energy Code have been proposed
by officials and look set to pass into law by next spring.

These include giving networks the right to decide when they consider the
grid to be in a state of emergency and the power to switch off high
usage electrical devices such as electric vehicle chargers and central
heating systems in British homes.

Under the plans all homes would need to have a third generation smart
meter installed, to include a function that allows meters in the home to
receive and carry out orders made by the energy networks.

This would dramatically alter the role of smart meters, which are
currently capable only of sending data on energy use to energy networks.

If passed unchallenged, these €˜modifications to the law would mean that
electric vehicle owners could plug in at the end of the day and wake up
without sufficient charge to travel the next morning.

Similarly, central heating systems could be turned off in homes across a
whole area if too many electric vehicles are plugged in to charge at
once, for example.

Currently, consumers are entitled to compensation if their power supply
is cut off, but under these plans, this recompense would likely be
scrapped.

There is also a question mark over whether to force households to
install the new smart meters, or make it an opt in or opt out scheme.

When energy networks are allowed to declare an emergency, triggering
their right to switch off private domestic energy devices, is also so
far undefined. "

https://www.thegwpf.com/and-so-it-be...-compensation/

****ing renewable greencrap.



--
€œThe ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools.€�

Herbert Spencer

On 08/02/2021 16:26, Jethro_uk wrote:
Didn't I warn about this last week ?

And last year ?

And 5 years ago ?

what will they do about people with dumb meters ?


You seem to have missed this in the text you snipped:
q
Under the plans all homes would need to have a third generation smart
meter installed, to include a function that allows meters in the home to
receive and carry out orders made by the energy networks.
/q

Richard wrote:
On 08/02/2021 16:26, Jethro_uk wrote:
Didn't I warn about this last week ?

And last year ?

And 5 years ago ?

what will they do about people with dumb meters ?


You seem to have missed this in the text you snipped:
q
Under the plans all homes would need to have a third generation smart
meter installed, to include a function that allows meters in the home to
receive and carry out orders made by the energy networks.
/q


Its going to need more than a smart meter to carry out these orders. All
power switchable appliances would have to be retro-fitted with smart
switches to enable this. I dont see this happening any time soon.

Personally, Im not going to lose any sleep over this.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 08/02/2021 16:26, Jethro_uk wrote:
Didn't I warn about this last week ?

And last year ?

And 5 years ago ?

what will they do about people with dumb meters ?


keep ramping up their daily standing charge over and
above inflation !. It's the energy stealth tax that
will keep on giving, .. and giving, ..and giving, ..

In message , Jethro_uk
writes
Didn't I warn about this last week ?

And last year ?

And 5 years ago ?

what will they do about people with dumb meters ?

Or those with a non-domestic load (farm use). I was never going to use
household energy for vehicle charging anyway:-)

Somebody with up to date knowledge can confirm but industrial tariffs
have had *off peak* charging for 40 years and load shedding by agreement
more recently.

--
Tim Lamb

On 08/02/2021 16:41, Tim+ wrote:
Richard wrote:
On 08/02/2021 16:26, Jethro_uk wrote:
Didn't I warn about this last week ?

And last year ?

And 5 years ago ?

what will they do about people with dumb meters ?


You seem to have missed this in the text you snipped:
q
Under the plans all homes would need to have a third generation smart
meter installed, to include a function that allows meters in the home to
receive and carry out orders made by the energy networks.
/q


Its going to need more than a smart meter to carry out these orders.

No,. They simply disconnect the premises

All
power switchable appliances would have to be retro-fitted with smart
switches to enable this. I dont see this happening any time soon.

Personally, Im not going to lose any sleep over this.

Tim



--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

On 08/02/2021 17:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/2021 16:41, Tim+ wrote:
Richard wrote:
On 08/02/2021 16:26, Jethro_uk wrote:
Didn't I warn about this last week ?

And last year ?

And 5 years ago ?

what will they do about people with dumb meters ?


You seem to have missed this in the text you snipped:
q
Under the plans all homes would need to have a third generation smart
meter installed, to include a function that allows meters in the home to
receive and carry out orders made by the energy networks.
/q


Its going to need more than a smart meter to carry out these orders.

No,. They simply disconnect the premises


Not a good guess given what seems to me clear language in the document
...."to allow Distributors control of consumer devices (such as Electric
Vehicles) connected to Smart Meter infrastructure"..."customers
participation in these arrangements is voluntary" ...using "Han
Connected Auxiliary Load Control Switches (HCALCS)".

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 08/02/2021 16:45, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Jethro_uk
writes
Didn't I warn about this last week ?

And last year ?

And 5 years ago ?

what will they do about people with dumb meters ?

Or those with a non-domestic load (farm use). I was never going to use
household energy for vehicle charging anyway:-)

Somebody with up to date knowledge can confirm but industrial tariffs
have had *off peak* charging for 40 years and load shedding by agreement
more recently.


And what's proposed is just a high-tech version of load shedding where
the load is a connected in a way which allows the supplier to disconnect
it. As I just pointed out to TNP, participation will voluntary (though
of course that might be part of a tariff's T&Cs). And it only applies
to specific consumer devices. So e.g. a farmer can keep a robotic
milking parlour out of the scheme altogether. Or only allow
disconnection of EV charging at peak hours.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/02/2021 16:41, Tim+ wrote:
Richard wrote:
On 08/02/2021 16:26, Jethro_uk wrote:
Didn't I warn about this last week ?

And last year ?

And 5 years ago ?

what will they do about people with dumb meters ?


You seem to have missed this in the text you snipped:
q
Under the plans all homes would need to have a third generation smart
meter installed, to include a function that allows meters in the home to
receive and carry out orders made by the energy networks.
/q


Its going to need more than a smart meter to carry out these orders.

No,. They simply disconnect the premises

Hmm, it seems that you were so busy enjoying a rant that youve forgotten
what you said earlier.

€œIf passed unchallenged, these €˜modifications to the law would mean that
electric vehicle owners could plug in at the end of the day and wake up
without sufficient charge to travel the next morning.

Similarly, central heating systems could be turned off in homes across a
whole area if too many electric vehicles are plugged in to charge at once,
for example.€�

Besides, isnt remote disconnection already theoretically possible with the
present smart meters? No need for a newer smart meter than those already
available if disconnection is the only action to be taken.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

These include giving networks the right to decide when they consider the
grid to be in a state of emergency and the power to switch off high
usage electrical devices such as electric vehicle chargers and central
heating systems in British homes.

Schemes like this (load shedding) are generally sold to
clients via an advantageous tariff.

Such a scheme makes perfect sense for BEV chargers.
BEV smart chargers, will already have a software interface
for this.

They won't be doing this to your home. They'll do rotating
blackouts, instead. That's a form of central management, too.

Paul

On 08/02/2021 17:42, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 08 Feb 2021 17:31:54 +0000, Robin wrote:

Han Connected Auxiliary Load Control Switches

So who pays for all that ?


All the refuseniks, by whacking up their daily standing
charge :-)

On 2021-02-08, Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

It???s going to need more than a smart meter to carry out these orders.

No,. They simply disconnect the premises

Hmm, it seems that you were so busy enjoying a rant that you???ve forgotten
what you said earlier.

I think he just enjoys ranting - it doesn't really matter what about :-)

On 08/02/2021 17:13, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 08 Feb 2021 16:45:48 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote:

In message , Jethro_uk
writes
Didn't I warn about this last week ?

And last year ?

And 5 years ago ?

what will they do about people with dumb meters ?

Or those with a non-domestic load (farm use). I was never going to use
household energy for vehicle charging anyway:-)

Somebody with up to date knowledge can confirm but industrial tariffs
have had *off peak* charging for 40 years and load shedding by agreement
more recently.

When I worked for British Gas, we had interruptibles off the high
pressure grid. (A lot of ICI plants, plus Hams Hall). So called because
they got a discount rate on the proviso it could be cut at short notice.

It was probably around then the industry shifted to a load of city wide
boys all selling each other "energy" rather than actually making the
stuff.


Can you 'make' energy though ???

On 08/02/2021 17:42, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 08 Feb 2021 17:31:54 +0000, Robin wrote:

Han Connected Auxiliary Load Control Switches

So who pays for all that ?


The direct cost might fall on either the consumer who wants them (so as
to qualify for a better tariff) or the supplier (who want the
flexibility). But what really matters is the aggregate cost to the
consumers of their supply. If not such controls then what?

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 08/02/2021 17:46, Paul wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

These include giving networks the right to decide when they consider
the grid to be in a state of emergency and the power to switch off
high usage electrical devicesÂ* such as electric vehicle chargers and
central heating systems in British homes.

Schemes like this (load shedding) are generally sold to
clients via an advantageous tariff.

Such a scheme makes perfect sense for BEV chargers.
BEV smart chargers, will already have a software interface
for this.

They won't be doing this to your home. They'll do rotating
blackouts, instead. That's a form of central management, too.

Â*Â* Paul

We have an electricity supplier, OVO who already have an
experimental EV tarrif where the EV battery can send power
back to the grid -


https://forum.ovoenergy.com/electric...-with-ovo-7767

Whether you would want your expensive EV car to have more
discharge/charge cycles for other peoples benefit is a moot point.

Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 08 Feb 2021 17:31:54 +0000, Robin wrote:

Han Connected Auxiliary Load Control Switches

So who pays for all that ?

.... and who is Han?

--
Chris Green
·

On 08/02/2021 16:33, Richard wrote:
On 08/02/2021 16:26, Jethro_uk wrote:
Didn't I warn about this last week ?

And last year ?

And 5 years ago ?

what will they do about people with dumb meters ?


You seem to have missed this in the text you snipped:
q
Under the plans all homes would need to have a third generation smart
meter installed, to include a function that allows meters in the home to
receive and carry out orders made by the energy networks.
/q

How long has it taken to install the number of smart meters currently in
use?

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 08/02/2021 18:04, Chris Green wrote:
Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 08 Feb 2021 17:31:54 +0000, Robin wrote:

Han Connected Auxiliary Load Control Switches

So who pays for all that ?

... and who is Han?


Home Area Network ?. Something to do with the Zigbee
protocol that Smart Meters use ??

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 08/02/2021 16:41, Tim+ wrote:
Richard wrote:
On 08/02/2021 16:26, Jethro_uk wrote:
Didn't I warn about this last week ?

And last year ?

And 5 years ago ?

what will they do about people with dumb meters ?


You seem to have missed this in the text you snipped:
q
Under the plans all homes would need to have a third generation smart
meter installed, to include a function that allows meters in the home to
receive and carry out orders made by the energy networks.
/q


Its going to need more than a smart meter to carry out these orders.

No,. They simply disconnect the premises

They arent going to do that because that will kill some people.

All
power switchable appliances would have to be retro-fitted with smart
switches to enable this. I dont see this happening any time soon.

Personally, Im not going to lose any sleep over this.

Tim



--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as foolish,
and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

On Tue, 9 Feb 2021 05:32:48 +1100, Fred, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread again


--
"Who or What is Rod Speed?
Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On 08/02/2021 15:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
"A series of €˜modifications to the Smart Energy Code have been proposed
by officials and look set to pass into law by next spring.

These include giving networks the right to decide when they consider the
grid to be in a state of emergency and the power to switch off high
usage electrical devicesÂ* such as electric vehicle chargers and central
heating systems in British homes.

Under the plans all homes would need to have a third generation smart
meter installed, to include a function that allows meters in the home to
receive and carry out orders made by the energy networks.

This would dramatically alter the role of smart meters, which are
currently capableÂ* only of sending data on energy use to energy networks.

If passed unchallenged, these €˜modifications to the law would mean that
electric vehicle owners could plug in at the end of the day and wake up
without sufficient charge to travel the next morning.

Similarly, central heating systems could be turned off in homes across a
whole area if too many electric vehicles are plugged in to charge at
once, for example.

Currently, consumers are entitled to compensation if their power supply
is cut off, but under these plans, this recompense would likely be
scrapped.

There is also a question mark over whether to force households to
install the new smart meters, or make it an opt in or opt out scheme.

When energy networks are allowed to declare an emergency, triggering
their right to switch off private domestic energy devices, is also so
far undefined. "

https://www.thegwpf.com/and-so-it-be...-compensation/


****ing renewable greencrap.



Well yes, but it is arguably the right way to go. When we were both kids
the way demand was managed was voltage reductions, followed by area
disconnections. And usually the peaks only lasted an hour or two. I
wouldn't expect a car to lose a full night's charge. Adding flexibility
reduces the need for reserve capacity, which carries a cost.

On 08/02/2021 16:45, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Jethro_uk
writes
Didn't I warn about this last week ?

And last year ?

And 5 years ago ?

what will they do about people with dumb meters ?

Or those with a non-domestic load (farm use). I was never going to use
household energy for vehicle charging anyway:-)

Somebody with up to date knowledge can confirm but industrial tariffs
have had *off peak* charging for 40 years and load shedding by agreement
more recently.

I'm pretty sure load shedding agreements go back 50 years. And heavy
industry sometimes had their own power stations: remember the hyperbolic
cooling towers at the steelworks next to the Tinsley viaduct?

In article , newshound
wrote:
On 08/02/2021 16:45, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Jethro_uk
writes
Didn't I warn about this last week ?

And last year ?

And 5 years ago ?

what will they do about people with dumb meters ?

Or those with a non-domestic load (farm use). I was never going to use
household energy for vehicle charging anyway:-)

Somebody with up to date knowledge can confirm but industrial tariffs
have had *off peak* charging for 40 years and load shedding by
agreement more recently.

I'm pretty sure load shedding agreements go back 50 years. And heavy
industry sometimes had their own power stations: remember the hyperbolic
cooling towers at the steelworks next to the Tinsley viaduct?

They were certainly around when I was, as a student, working at an
engineering manufacturer in Edinburgh - 1959.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 08/02/2021 16:41, Tim+ wrote:
Richard wrote:
On 08/02/2021 16:26, Jethro_uk wrote:
Didn't I warn about this last week ?

And last year ?

And 5 years ago ?

what will they do about people with dumb meters ?


You seem to have missed this in the text you snipped:
q
Under the plans all homes would need to have a third generation smart
meter installed, to include a function that allows meters in the home to
receive and carry out orders made by the energy networks.
/q


Its going to need more than a smart meter to carry out these orders. All
power switchable appliances would have to be retro-fitted with smart
switches to enable this. I dont see this happening any time soon.

All they need is two circuits, one that the SMETS3 can switch off. After
all, that's how Economy 7 works.

--
Max Demian

Max Demian wrote:
On 08/02/2021 16:41, Tim+ wrote:
Richard wrote:
On 08/02/2021 16:26, Jethro_uk wrote:
Didn't I warn about this last week ?

And last year ?

And 5 years ago ?

what will they do about people with dumb meters ?


You seem to have missed this in the text you snipped:
q
Under the plans all homes would need to have a third generation smart
meter installed, to include a function that allows meters in the home to
receive and carry out orders made by the energy networks.
/q


Its going to need more than a smart meter to carry out these orders. All
power switchable appliances would have to be retro-fitted with smart
switches to enable this. I dont see this happening any time soon.

All they need is two circuits, one that the SMETS3 can switch off. After
all, that's how Economy 7 works.


Well I deliberately *didnt* mention rewriting every house in the country
as it seemed an even more absurd suggestion. Fitting smart switches to
devices would be easily doable and cheap (not that I believe that this will
happen).

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

But I was around during the 3 day week and there were no smart meters, so
whole areas were turned off t restrict demand then under a state of
emergency. One supposes this is just a more granular control of the same
facility. It would enable those who have medical machines at home needed to
preserve life to stay powered while restricting non essential use. The
basics back then were that you were warned ahead of time when your area
would need to be powered off in order to save fuel etc, and thus could take
precautions. Myself what is important here is not the ability to do this,
but the reasons for it and in whose hands this decision rests. In my view it
needs ceentralised coordination, or it will be a shambles.
One other thing to bear in mind of course is whether the software could be
hacked to cause deliberate disruption by a third party.

Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
"A series of 'modifications' to the Smart Energy Code have been proposed
by officials and look set to pass into law by next spring.

These include giving networks the right to decide when they consider the
grid to be in a state of 'emergency' and the power to switch off high
usage electrical devices such as electric vehicle chargers and central
heating systems in British homes.

Under the plans all homes would need to have a third generation smart
meter installed, to include a function that allows meters in the home to
receive and carry out orders made by the energy networks.

This would dramatically alter the role of smart meters, which are
currently capable only of sending data on energy use to energy networks.

If passed unchallenged, these 'modifications' to the law would mean that
electric vehicle owners could plug in at the end of the day and wake up
without sufficient charge to travel the next morning.

Similarly, central heating systems could be turned off in homes across a
whole area if too many electric vehicles are plugged in to charge at once,
for example.

Currently, consumers are entitled to compensation if their power supply is
cut off, but under these plans, this recompense would likely be scrapped.

There is also a question mark over whether to force households to install
the new smart meters, or make it an opt in or opt out scheme.

When energy networks are allowed to declare an 'emergency', triggering
their right to switch off private domestic energy devices, is also so far
undefined. "

https://www.thegwpf.com/and-so-it-be...-compensation/

****ing renewable greencrap.



--
"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill
the world with fools."

Herbert Spencer

On 08/02/2021 22:48, Max Demian wrote:
On 08/02/2021 16:41, Tim+ wrote:
Richard wrote:
On 08/02/2021 16:26, Jethro_uk wrote:
Didn't I warn about this last week ?

And last year ?

And 5 years ago ?

what will they do about people with dumb meters ?


You seem to have missed this in the text you snipped:
q
Under the plans all homes would need to have a third generation smart
meter installed, to include a function that allows meters in the home to
receive and carry out orders made by the energy networks.
/q


Its going to need more than a smart meter to carry out these orders.
All
power switchable appliances would have to be retro-fitted with smart
switches to enable this.Â* I dont see this happening any time soon.

All they need is two circuits, one that the SMETS3 can switch off. After
all, that's how Economy 7 works.


using auxiliary load control switching is all-or-nothing on the
auxiliary circuit; switching appliance by appliance allows e.g. turning
off the EV charger but not the heat pump (or vice versa)

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 08/02/2021 17:58, Jethro_uk wrote:
However we are where we are because successive city spivs have managed to
create a merry go round of extracting money out of what people pay for
energy while also cutting back on investing in new supplies.

Trebles all round !!! etc.

Not city spivs I can assure you.
Mostly major energy companies



It's the same logic that addresses a lack of houses with cheaper
mortgages.


Not really.
That's called economnic slavery


--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

On 08/02/2021 20:22, newshound wrote:
Well yes, but it is arguably the right way to go. When we were both kids
the way demand was managed was voltage reductions, followed by area
disconnections. And usually the peaks only lasted an hour or two.

I have never experienced that IN MY LIFE in the UK.



I
wouldn't expect a car to lose a full night's charge. Adding flexibility
reduces the need for reserve capacity, which carries a cost.


--
Its easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
Mark Twain

On 09/02/2021 07:47, Tim+ wrote:
Max Demian wrote:
On 08/02/2021 16:41, Tim+ wrote:
Richard wrote:
On 08/02/2021 16:26, Jethro_uk wrote:

what will they do about people with dumb meters ?


You seem to have missed this in the text you snipped:
q
Under the plans all homes would need to have a third generation smart
meter installed, to include a function that allows meters in the home to
receive and carry out orders made by the energy networks.
/q


Its going to need more than a smart meter to carry out these orders. All
power switchable appliances would have to be retro-fitted with smart
switches to enable this. I dont see this happening any time soon.

All they need is two circuits, one that the SMETS3 can switch off. After
all, that's how Economy 7 works.


Well I deliberately *didnt* mention rewriting every house in the country
as it seemed an even more absurd suggestion. Fitting smart switches to
devices would be easily doable and cheap (not that I believe that this will
happen).

The kind of device suitable for switching off to balance load would be
an EV charger and a heat pump, both of which will need new wiring back
to the consumer unit. The only other kind I can think of would be an
immersion heater. And perhaps the off-peak circuit if there are storage
heaters; but these are on a separate circuit anyway and probably won't
need switching off as they are on at, um, off-peak times.

--
Max Demian

Max Demian wrote:
The kind of device suitable for switching off to balance load would be
an EV charger and a heat pump, both of which will need new wiring back
to the consumer unit. The only other kind I can think of would be an
immersion heater. And perhaps the off-peak circuit if there are storage
heaters; but these are on a separate circuit anyway and probably won't
need switching off as they are on at, um, off-peak times.

I'm thinking of things like refrigeration - there's enough thermal mass in
the fridge/freezer that it'll hold temperature for several hours if the door
isn't opened. So you can tell it not to run the compressor during peak
demand, as long as the temperature stays within acceptable limits. Over the
fleet of millions of fridges, that adds up. I think supermarkets with their
substantial chiller fleets are already doing this.

Adding a Zigbee module to talk to the smart meter would be a few dollars
at manufacture time. Give owners a few quid off their electricity bills
for enrolling and everyone is happy.

Theo

Tim+ wrote:

I deliberately *didnt* mention rewriting every house in the country
as it seemed an even more absurd suggestion. Fitting smart switches to
devices would be easily doable and cheap (not that I believe that this will
happen).

There is a zigbee profile for smart meters to talk to EVSE

https://zigbeealliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/docs-07-5356-19-0zse-zigbee-smart-energy-profile-specification.pdf

On 09/02/2021 12:12, Max Demian wrote:
On 09/02/2021 07:47, Tim+ wrote:
Max Demian wrote:
On 08/02/2021 16:41, Tim+ wrote:
Richard wrote:
On 08/02/2021 16:26, Jethro_uk wrote:

what will they do about people with dumb meters ?


You seem to have missed this in the text you snipped:
q
Under the plans all homes would need to have a third generation smart
meter installed, to include a function that allows meters in the
home to
receive and carry out orders made by the energy networks.
/q


Its going to need more than a smart meter to carry out these
orders.Â* All
power switchable appliances would have to be retro-fitted with smart
switches to enable this.Â* I dont see this happening any time soon.

All they need is two circuits, one that the SMETS3 can switch off. After
all, that's how Economy 7 works.


Well I deliberately *didnt* mention rewriting every house in the country
as it seemed an even more absurd suggestion.Â* Fitting smart switches to
devices would be easily doable and cheap (not that I believe that this
will
happen).

The kind of device suitable for switching off to balance load would be
an EV charger and a heat pump, both of which will need new wiring back
to the consumer unit. The only other kind I can think of would be an
immersion heater. And perhaps the off-peak circuit if there are storage
heaters; but these are on a separate circuit anyway and probably won't
need switching off as they are on at, um, off-peak times.


More here, including the responses to the original 2019 document -

https://www.gov.uk/government/consul...smart-charging

On 09/02/2021 12:37, Theo wrote:
Max Demian wrote:
The kind of device suitable for switching off to balance load would be
an EV charger and a heat pump, both of which will need new wiring back
to the consumer unit. The only other kind I can think of would be an
immersion heater. And perhaps the off-peak circuit if there are storage
heaters; but these are on a separate circuit anyway and probably won't
need switching off as they are on at, um, off-peak times.

I'm thinking of things like refrigeration - there's enough thermal mass in
the fridge/freezer that it'll hold temperature for several hours if the door
isn't opened. So you can tell it not to run the compressor during peak
demand, as long as the temperature stays within acceptable limits. Over the
fleet of millions of fridges, that adds up. I think supermarkets with their
substantial chiller fleets are already doing this.

What if the freezer doesn't turn back on again and you come back from
holiday to soggy food? Who will be responsible for this? The energy company?

--
Max Demian

Max Demian wrote:
On 09/02/2021 12:37, Theo wrote:
Max Demian wrote:
The kind of device suitable for switching off to balance load would be
an EV charger and a heat pump, both of which will need new wiring back
to the consumer unit. The only other kind I can think of would be an
immersion heater. And perhaps the off-peak circuit if there are storage
heaters; but these are on a separate circuit anyway and probably won't
need switching off as they are on at, um, off-peak times.

I'm thinking of things like refrigeration - there's enough thermal mass in
the fridge/freezer that it'll hold temperature for several hours if the door
isn't opened. So you can tell it not to run the compressor during peak
demand, as long as the temperature stays within acceptable limits. Over the
fleet of millions of fridges, that adds up. I think supermarkets with their
substantial chiller fleets are already doing this.

What if the freezer doesn't turn back on again and you come back from
holiday to soggy food?

Why wouldnt it? Have you ever come across a freezer that couldnt be
turned on and off at the wall?

Tim





--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 09/02/2021 16:37, Tim+ wrote:
Max Demian wrote:
On 09/02/2021 12:37, Theo wrote:
Max Demian wrote:
The kind of device suitable for switching off to balance load would be
an EV charger and a heat pump, both of which will need new wiring back
to the consumer unit. The only other kind I can think of would be an
immersion heater. And perhaps the off-peak circuit if there are storage
heaters; but these are on a separate circuit anyway and probably won't
need switching off as they are on at, um, off-peak times.

I'm thinking of things like refrigeration - there's enough thermal mass in
the fridge/freezer that it'll hold temperature for several hours if the door
isn't opened. So you can tell it not to run the compressor during peak
demand, as long as the temperature stays within acceptable limits. Over the
fleet of millions of fridges, that adds up. I think supermarkets with their
substantial chiller fleets are already doing this.

What if the freezer doesn't turn back on again and you come back from
holiday to soggy food?

Why wouldnt it? Have you ever come across a freezer that couldnt be
turned on and off at the wall?

I haven't tried turning it off and on every day. Machines fail. If it
failed to turn back on, I would accept that it's my fault; if someone
else did it, I would say it was theirs.

--
Max Demian

"Max Demian" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 09/02/2021 16:37, Tim+ wrote:
Max Demian wrote:
On 09/02/2021 12:37, Theo wrote:
Max Demian wrote:
The kind of device suitable for switching off to balance load would be
an EV charger and a heat pump, both of which will need new wiring back
to the consumer unit. The only other kind I can think of would be an
immersion heater. And perhaps the off-peak circuit if there are
storage
heaters; but these are on a separate circuit anyway and probably won't
need switching off as they are on at, um, off-peak times.

I'm thinking of things like refrigeration - there's enough thermal mass
in
the fridge/freezer that it'll hold temperature for several hours if the
door
isn't opened. So you can tell it not to run the compressor during peak
demand, as long as the temperature stays within acceptable limits.
Over the
fleet of millions of fridges, that adds up. I think supermarkets with
their
substantial chiller fleets are already doing this.

What if the freezer doesn't turn back on again and you come back from
holiday to soggy food?

Why wouldnt it? Have you ever come across a freezer that couldnt be
turned on and off at the wall?

I haven't tried turning it off and on every day.

There is no suggestion that it would be turned
off and on every day, or even every week.

Machines fail. If it failed to turn back on, I would accept that it's my
fault;

More fool you.

if someone else did it, I would say it was theirs.

More fool you.

Max Demian wrote:
On 09/02/2021 16:37, Tim+ wrote:
Max Demian wrote:
On 09/02/2021 12:37, Theo wrote:
Max Demian wrote:
The kind of device suitable for switching off to balance load would be
an EV charger and a heat pump, both of which will need new wiring back
to the consumer unit. The only other kind I can think of would be an
immersion heater. And perhaps the off-peak circuit if there are storage
heaters; but these are on a separate circuit anyway and probably won't
need switching off as they are on at, um, off-peak times.

I'm thinking of things like refrigeration - there's enough thermal mass in
the fridge/freezer that it'll hold temperature for several hours if the door
isn't opened. So you can tell it not to run the compressor during peak
demand, as long as the temperature stays within acceptable limits. Over the
fleet of millions of fridges, that adds up. I think supermarkets with their
substantial chiller fleets are already doing this.

What if the freezer doesn't turn back on again and you come back from
holiday to soggy food?

Why wouldnt it? Have you ever come across a freezer that couldnt be
turned on and off at the wall?

I haven't tried turning it off and on every day. Machines fail. If it
failed to turn back on, I would accept that it's my fault; if someone
else did it, I would say it was theirs.

What do you think your thermostat does? It turns it on and off regularly.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 09/02/2021 18:30, Tim+ wrote:
Max Demian wrote:
On 09/02/2021 16:37, Tim+ wrote:
Max Demian wrote:
On 09/02/2021 12:37, Theo wrote:
Max Demian wrote:
The kind of device suitable for switching off to balance load would be
an EV charger and a heat pump, both of which will need new wiring back
to the consumer unit. The only other kind I can think of would be an
immersion heater. And perhaps the off-peak circuit if there are storage
heaters; but these are on a separate circuit anyway and probably won't
need switching off as they are on at, um, off-peak times.

I'm thinking of things like refrigeration - there's enough thermal mass in
the fridge/freezer that it'll hold temperature for several hours if the door
isn't opened. So you can tell it not to run the compressor during peak
demand, as long as the temperature stays within acceptable limits. Over the
fleet of millions of fridges, that adds up. I think supermarkets with their
substantial chiller fleets are already doing this.

What if the freezer doesn't turn back on again and you come back from
holiday to soggy food?

Why wouldnt it? Have you ever come across a freezer that couldnt be
turned on and off at the wall?

I haven't tried turning it off and on every day. Machines fail. If it
failed to turn back on, I would accept that it's my fault; if someone
else did it, I would say it was theirs.

What do you think your thermostat does? It turns it on and off regularly.

Many (most?) fridges and freezers these days are electronically
controlled and the power to the electronics is not normally switched on
and off. I would not expect a problem doing so, but there is probably
some slight risk of repeated cycling increasing the failure rate.

On Wed, 10 Feb 2021 05:20:26 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rot:
"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID: