Hi,


I've been forced to DIY a bit of welding on this old car I'm doing up
for the MOT which involves replacing a jacking point which was badly
rusted. Never having used a MIG before (and don't it show) I made a
bit of a mess of it. Question is, ugly as it undeniably is, would it
make MOT standard as it stands? If not, how about after a couple of
coats of really thick underseal?


https://yadi.sk/a/3JCu11C8848DhQ

On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 21:25:12 +0000, Paul Benton
wrote:

Hi,


I've been forced to DIY a bit of welding on this old car I'm doing up
for the MOT which involves replacing a jacking point which was badly
rusted. Never having used a MIG before (and don't it show) I made a
bit of a mess of it.

Id say the final result looks reasonably consistent and working
overhand is never easy, even when it's clean metal etc.

Question is, ugly as it undeniably is, would it
make MOT standard as it stands?

I can't see why not. They'll probably give it a few taps with a small
hammer and if it doesn't fall off, say it's ok? ;-)

If not, how about after a couple of
coats of really thick underseal?

I think some of them like to see the repair before you cover it up, if
it's been done 'for' the MOT etc. Not sure if there are any rules that
cover such but coming clean at least removes the element of doubt.


https://yadi.sk/a/3JCu11C8848DhQ

Thanks for reminding me why I built the kitcar and it's nice heavy
duty box steel ladder chassis and fibreglass body. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 29/01/2021 21:25, Paul Benton wrote:
Hi,


I've been forced to DIY a bit of welding on this old car I'm doing up
for the MOT which involves replacing a jacking point which was badly
rusted. Never having used a MIG before (and don't it show) I made a
bit of a mess of it. Question is, ugly as it undeniably is, would it
make MOT standard as it stands? If not, how about after a couple of
coats of really thick underseal?


https://yadi.sk/a/3JCu11C8848DhQ


I think the key point is whether it is near a suspension point. I assume
of course that you have tested the structural integrity by jacking the
car up to get two wheels off the ground, if it were mine I would
overload it too by opening the nearest door and jumping up and down on
the exposed sill.

My impression is that MOT testers are more cautious than they used to
be, perhaps they are subjected to more random inspections.

*Personally* I would have discussed it with a tester first.

On 29/01/2021 21:25, Paul Benton wrote:
Hi,


I've been forced to DIY a bit of welding on this old car I'm doing up
for the MOT which involves replacing a jacking point which was badly
rusted. Never having used a MIG before (and don't it show) I made a
bit of a mess of it. Question is, ugly as it undeniably is, would it
make MOT standard as it stands? If not, how about after a couple of
coats of really thick underseal?


https://yadi.sk/a/3JCu11C8848DhQ

It may not be pretty but is better than some welding I have seen.

Once you cover it with black underseal or alternative it should look ok too.

The criteria is a continuous seam weld, if you're there the examiner
might ask. He'll struggle not to agree that is continuous. Not long ago
it was 25mm weld with 50mm gaps. The only test of it's structural
integrity is firm thumb pressure. If it doesn't move and seems sound
he'll should accept the repair.

His testing is limited:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-insp...-and-corrosion

Identify the important load bearing members and €˜prescribed areas on a
vehicle, then check if they are excessively corroded by:

Visual inspection
Use finger and thumb pressure to assess the extent of the corrosion
If necessary, carefully scrape or lightly tap the affected areas
with the corrosion assessment tool

Use of the corrosion assessment tool must be restricted to ascertaining
that the failure criteria are met and not used for heavy scraping or
poking of the affected areas.

FYI the corrosion assessment tool is a joke. Most testers don't use one
but obviously have one at hand just in case they have a visit from an
inspector.

Paul Benton wrote:

Hi,


I've been forced to DIY a bit of welding on this old car I'm doing up
for the MOT which involves replacing a jacking point which was badly
rusted. Never having used a MIG before (and don't it show) I made a
bit of a mess of it. Question is, ugly as it undeniably is, would it
make MOT standard as it stands? If not, how about after a couple of
coats of really thick underseal?


https://yadi.sk/a/3JCu11C8848DhQ

has it already failed mot on that section of floor
best thing is to take it to the garage and ask them to take a look ´most¡ garages want to keep you as a customer and are happy to help.

--

On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 22:14:09 +0000, Fredxx
wrote:

His testing is limited:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-insp...-and-corrosion

Identify the important load bearing members and ‘prescribed areas’ on a
vehicle, then check if they are excessively corroded by:

Visual inspection
Use finger and thumb pressure to assess the extent of the corrosion
If necessary, carefully scrape or lightly tap the affected areas
with the corrosion assessment tool

Use of the corrosion assessment tool must be restricted to ascertaining
that the failure criteria are met and not used for heavy scraping or
poking of the affected areas.

Unbelievable. Just as well you provided a source or I'd have assumed
you were joking.
Dunno what I was worried about, then!

FYI the corrosion assessment tool is a joke. Most testers don't use one
but obviously have one at hand just in case they have a visit from an
inspector.

ISTR back in the day ('70s) they'd use a massive screwdriver and jab
it violently up against any suspect areas, thereby exposing all the
chicken wire and scrunched-up newspapers. Regs must have got relaxed
since then, I guess.

On 30/01/2021 00:45, Paul Benton wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 22:14:09 +0000, Fredxx
wrote:

His testing is limited:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-insp...-and-corrosion

Identify the important load bearing members and €˜prescribed areas on a
vehicle, then check if they are excessively corroded by:

Visual inspection
Use finger and thumb pressure to assess the extent of the corrosion
If necessary, carefully scrape or lightly tap the affected areas
with the corrosion assessment tool

Use of the corrosion assessment tool must be restricted to ascertaining
that the failure criteria are met and not used for heavy scraping or
poking of the affected areas.

Unbelievable. Just as well you provided a source or I'd have assumed
you were joking.
Dunno what I was worried about, then!

Glad it was of use. I would paint it up or use black goo. Obviously it's
going to look new unless you can make it age, so the repair will be
obvious.

Structural failure is rare where by far the majority of accidents are
down to driver error or misfortune. To be honest visual inspection and
feel are pretty good at gauging corrosion and perforation.

I genuinely don't think a tester would fail your repair. You may wish to
post the same question in
uk.rec.cars.maintenance
as there are some there who don't frequent this group and may have more
experience.

FYI the corrosion assessment tool is a joke. Most testers don't use one
but obviously have one at hand just in case they have a visit from an
inspector.

ISTR back in the day ('70s) they'd use a massive screwdriver and jab
it violently up against any suspect areas, thereby exposing all the
chicken wire and scrunched-up newspapers. Regs must have got relaxed
since then, I guess.

I have only known one instance many, many years ago where a tester
nicely perforated a sill with a screwdriver.

On 30/01/2021 01:02, Fredxx wrote:
On 30/01/2021 00:45, Paul Benton wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 22:14:09 +0000, Fredxx
wrote:

His testing is limited:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-insp...-and-corrosion


Identify the important load bearing members and €˜prescribed areas on a
vehicle, then check if they are excessively corroded by:

Â*Â*Â*Â* Visual inspection
Â*Â*Â*Â* Use finger and thumb pressure to assess the extent of the corrosion
Â*Â*Â*Â* If necessary, carefully scrape or lightly tap the affected areas
with the corrosion assessment tool

Use of the corrosion assessment tool must be restricted to ascertaining
that the failure criteria are met and not used for heavy scraping or
poking of the affected areas.

Unbelievable. Just as well you provided a source or I'd have assumed
you were joking.
Dunno what I was worried about, then!

Glad it was of use. I would paint it up or use black goo. Obviously it's
going to look new unless you can make it age, so the repair will be
obvious.

Structural failure is rare where by far the majority of accidents are
down to driver error or misfortune. To be honest visual inspection and
feel are pretty good at gauging corrosion and perforation.

The problem is what happens to the crash resistance if the
vehicle is involved in a crash ?. What might be fine for
a general runabout might not provide the occupants with the same
degree of protection that the manufacturer designed at anything
faster than 30mph after an impact.

30 years ago, I occasionally saw 10+ YO vehicles involved in
minor crashes and the hidden rust was spread all over the
road, with serious deflection and distortion of the body shell.
These days that doesn't seem to happen (though that might be
because I don't go out for 50 miles bike rides any longer so
I miss them). Mark 1 Ford Ka's were notorious for rust even
at 7 years old but the newer models seem better.

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
On 30/01/2021 01:02, Fredxx wrote:
On 30/01/2021 00:45, Paul Benton wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 22:14:09 +0000, Fredxx
wrote:

His testing is limited:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-insp...-and-corrosion


Identify the important load bearing members and �prescribed areas‘ on a
vehicle, then check if they are excessively corroded by:

Visual inspection
Use finger and thumb pressure to assess the extent of the corrosion
If necessary, carefully scrape or lightly tap the affected areas
with the corrosion assessment tool

Use of the corrosion assessment tool must be restricted to ascertaining
that the failure criteria are met and not used for heavy scraping or
poking of the affected areas.

Unbelievable. Just as well you provided a source or I'd have assumed
you were joking.
Dunno what I was worried about, then!

Glad it was of use. I would paint it up or use black goo. Obviously it's
going to look new unless you can make it age, so the repair will be
obvious.

Structural failure is rare where by far the majority of accidents are
down to driver error or misfortune. To be honest visual inspection and
feel are pretty good at gauging corrosion and perforation.

The problem is what happens to the crash resistance if the
vehicle is involved in a crash ?. What might be fine for
a general runabout might not provide the occupants with the same
degree of protection that the manufacturer designed at anything
faster than 30mph after an impact.

30 years ago, I occasionally saw 10+ YO vehicles involved in
minor crashes and the hidden rust was spread all over the
road, with serious deflection and distortion of the body shell.
These days that doesn't seem to happen (though that might be
because I don't go out for 50 miles bike rides any longer so
I miss them). Mark 1 Ford Ka's were notorious for rust even
at 7 years old but the newer models seem better.

Back in the 1960s, I was introduced to a car body repairer: George, the
only person I know who can weld two pieces of rust together

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 30/01/2021 00:45, Paul Benton wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jan 2021 22:14:09 +0000, Fredxx
wrote:

His testing is limited:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-insp...-and-corrosion

Identify the important load bearing members and €˜prescribed areas on a
vehicle, then check if they are excessively corroded by:

Visual inspection
Use finger and thumb pressure to assess the extent of the corrosion
If necessary, carefully scrape or lightly tap the affected areas
with the corrosion assessment tool

Use of the corrosion assessment tool must be restricted to ascertaining
that the failure criteria are met and not used for heavy scraping or
poking of the affected areas.

Unbelievable. Just as well you provided a source or I'd have assumed
you were joking.
Dunno what I was worried about, then!

The trouble is that heavy scraping or poking is liable to damage the
protective layer of paint and promote rusting, so they could be accused
of causing damage.

Lighter poking, maybe with a piece of wood, would likely reveal any
serious corrosion with holes or flaking layers and with no real chance
of damage.

In article ,
Paul Benton wrote:
Hi,


I've been forced to DIY a bit of welding on this old car I'm doing up
for the MOT which involves replacing a jacking point which was badly
rusted. Never having used a MIG before (and don't it show) I made a
bit of a mess of it. Question is, ugly as it undeniably is, would it
make MOT standard as it stands? If not, how about after a couple of
coats of really thick underseal?


https://yadi.sk/a/3JCu11C8848DhQ

Looks like you could grind the welds down a bit more. Do they seem to have
penetrated both bits of steel? Looks don't much matter, but I'd need to be
sure the weld is strong. Covering it up with gobs of underseal is going to
make the tester look far more closely. And rightly so.

--
*If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 11:34:53 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Looks like you could grind the welds down a bit more. Do they seem to have
penetrated both bits of steel? Looks don't much matter, but I'd need to be
sure the weld is strong. Covering it up with gobs of underseal is going to
make the tester look far more closely. And rightly so.

That's the main issue with MIG: you can't really tell! The truth is I
just don't know. I've jacked it up and belted it with a club hammer
and it ain't goin' nowhere. HOWEVER, whether it would survive intact
after a smash is another matter altogether. A complete unknown.

On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 10:27:52 +0000, Andrew
wrote:

30 years ago, I occasionally saw 10+ YO vehicles involved in
minor crashes and the hidden rust was spread all over the
road, with serious deflection and distortion of the body shell.
These days that doesn't seem to happen (though that might be
because I don't go out for 50 miles bike rides any longer so
I miss them). Mark 1 Ford Ka's were notorious for rust even
at 7 years old but the newer models seem better.

If you're going to have a head-on in a Ka you've basically had your
chips, rust or no rust, you ain't coming out of it with a pulse.

On 30/01/2021 13:30, Paul Benton wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 10:27:52 +0000, Andrew
wrote:

30 years ago, I occasionally saw 10+ YO vehicles involved in
minor crashes and the hidden rust was spread all over the
road, with serious deflection and distortion of the body shell.
These days that doesn't seem to happen (though that might be
because I don't go out for 50 miles bike rides any longer so
I miss them). Mark 1 Ford Ka's were notorious for rust even
at 7 years old but the newer models seem better.

If you're going to have a head-on in a Ka you've basically had your
chips, rust or no rust, you ain't coming out of it with a pulse.

actually you are wrong. head ons are well catered for. Its side impacts
that are worse

I remember watching a racing mini go straight on into a concrete wall at
100mph with only a layer of tyres in between. It jumped about 6 foot in
the air, crashed down on its wheels, and the driver got out and swore
loudly.

Wasn't much left in front of the firewall, but it did its job, and
leaping in the air slowed down the deceleration in the passenger
compartment.

Of course it had a roll cage, which a Ka doesn't have, but a Ka doesn't
do 100mph either...





--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

On 30/01/2021 13:39, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/01/2021 13:30, Paul Benton wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 10:27:52 +0000, Andrew
wrote:

30 years ago, I occasionally saw 10+ YO vehicles involved in
minor crashes and the hidden rust was spread all over the
road, with serious deflection and distortion of the body shell.
These days that doesn't seem to happen (though that might be
because I don't go out for 50 miles bike rides any longer so
I miss them). Mark 1 Ford Ka's were notorious for rust even
at 7 years old but the newer models seem better.

If you're going to have a head-on in a Ka you've basically had your
chips, rust or no rust, you ain't coming out of it with a pulse.

actually you are wrong. head ons are well catered for. Its side impacts
that are worse

I remember watching a racing mini go straight on into a concrete wall at
100mph with only a layer of tyres in between. It jumped about 6 foot in
the air, crashed down on its wheels, and the driver got out and swore
loudly.

Wasn't much left in front of the firewall, but it did its job, and
leaping in the air slowed down the deceleration in the passenger
compartment.

Of course it had a roll cage, which a Ka doesn't have, but a Ka doesn't
do 100mph either...




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7akXGj2MQaE





--
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace,
community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"

On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 13:47:10 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

actually you are wrong. head ons are well catered for. Its side impacts
that are worse

I remember watching a racing mini go straight on into a concrete wall at
100mph with only a layer of tyres in between. It jumped about 6 foot in
the air, crashed down on its wheels, and the driver got out and swore
loudly.

Wasn't much left in front of the firewall, but it did its job, and
leaping in the air slowed down the deceleration in the passenger
compartment.

Of course it had a roll cage, which a Ka doesn't have, but a Ka doesn't
do 100mph either...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7akXGj2MQaE


"Ford Ka gets zero star safety" is the title of the clip you've cited
in support of your claim?? I'll give you ten out of ten for humour if
nothing else! :-)

On 30/01/2021 14:40, Paul Benton wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 13:47:10 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

actually you are wrong. head ons are well catered for. Its side impacts
that are worse

I remember watching a racing mini go straight on into a concrete wall at
100mph with only a layer of tyres in between. It jumped about 6 foot in
the air, crashed down on its wheels, and the driver got out and swore
loudly.

Wasn't much left in front of the firewall, but it did its job, and
leaping in the air slowed down the deceleration in the passenger
compartment.

Of course it had a roll cage, which a Ka doesn't have, but a Ka doesn't
do 100mph either...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7akXGj2MQaE


"Ford Ka gets zero star safety" is the title of the clip you've cited
in support of your claim?? I'll give you ten out of ten for humour if
nothing else! :-)

Try actually watching the video, It is clear that in terms of frontal
impact the safety systems all worked well.
Side impact is not so good.

Cars cannot be sold without meeting certain safety standards. The car
meets those standards

The you tube poster is simply a ****.



--
Theres a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
that sound good.

Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)

In article ,
Paul Benton wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 11:34:53 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Looks like you could grind the welds down a bit more. Do they seem to have
penetrated both bits of steel? Looks don't much matter, but I'd need to be
sure the weld is strong. Covering it up with gobs of underseal is going to
make the tester look far more closely. And rightly so.

That's the main issue with MIG: you can't really tell! The truth is I
just don't know. I've jacked it up and belted it with a club hammer
and it ain't goin' nowhere. HOWEVER, whether it would survive intact
after a smash is another matter altogether. A complete unknown.

I'd try belting a few random globs of weld with a hammer and punch. If
they stay in place, they'll have penetrated.

I'm an expert at really bad welding. Despite practising and even modifying
my MIG to give a better slow speed wire feed, I've never mastered welding
thin stuff.

--
*If PROGRESS is for advancement, what does that make CONGRESS mean?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 30/01/2021 16:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Paul Benton wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 11:34:53 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Looks like you could grind the welds down a bit more. Do they seem to have
penetrated both bits of steel? Looks don't much matter, but I'd need to be
sure the weld is strong. Covering it up with gobs of underseal is going to
make the tester look far more closely. And rightly so.

That's the main issue with MIG: you can't really tell! The truth is I
just don't know. I've jacked it up and belted it with a club hammer
and it ain't goin' nowhere. HOWEVER, whether it would survive intact
after a smash is another matter altogether. A complete unknown.

I'd try belting a few random globs of weld with a hammer and punch. If
they stay in place, they'll have penetrated.

I'm an expert at really bad welding. Despite practising and even modifying
my MIG to give a better slow speed wire feed, I've never mastered welding
thin stuff.

What type of wire do you use, and what was the shielding gas?

Cleanliness is key. It's tricky to get the feed right at low currents
and any contamination of surfaces will create vapour that destroys the
shielding gas properties.

I found gasless wire might be good outside but gives a pretty poor result.

On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 16:55:19 +0000, Fredxx
wrote:

On 30/01/2021 16:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Paul Benton wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 11:34:53 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Looks like you could grind the welds down a bit more. Do they seem to have
penetrated both bits of steel? Looks don't much matter, but I'd need to be
sure the weld is strong. Covering it up with gobs of underseal is going to
make the tester look far more closely. And rightly so.

That's the main issue with MIG: you can't really tell! The truth is I
just don't know. I've jacked it up and belted it with a club hammer
and it ain't goin' nowhere. HOWEVER, whether it would survive intact
after a smash is another matter altogether. A complete unknown.

I'd try belting a few random globs of weld with a hammer and punch. If
they stay in place, they'll have penetrated.

I'm an expert at really bad welding. Despite practising and even modifying
my MIG to give a better slow speed wire feed, I've never mastered welding
thin stuff.

What type of wire do you use, and what was the shielding gas?

Cleanliness is key. It's tricky to get the feed right at low currents
and any contamination of surfaces will create vapour that destroys the
shielding gas properties.

I found gasless wire might be good outside but gives a pretty poor result.

That gassless process is not suitable for thin guage metal IMO. It's
too close to MMA welding and it's far too easy to blow holes in thin
stuff. For car panels, you really must have plain steel wire and
CO2/Argon 15/85 or thereabouts.

On 30/01/2021 21:31, Paul Benton wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 16:55:19 +0000, Fredxx
wrote:

On 30/01/2021 16:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Paul Benton wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 11:34:53 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Looks like you could grind the welds down a bit more. Do they seem to have
penetrated both bits of steel? Looks don't much matter, but I'd need to be
sure the weld is strong. Covering it up with gobs of underseal is going to
make the tester look far more closely. And rightly so.

That's the main issue with MIG: you can't really tell! The truth is I
just don't know. I've jacked it up and belted it with a club hammer
and it ain't goin' nowhere. HOWEVER, whether it would survive intact
after a smash is another matter altogether. A complete unknown.

I'd try belting a few random globs of weld with a hammer and punch. If
they stay in place, they'll have penetrated.

I'm an expert at really bad welding. Despite practising and even modifying
my MIG to give a better slow speed wire feed, I've never mastered welding
thin stuff.

What type of wire do you use, and what was the shielding gas?

Cleanliness is key. It's tricky to get the feed right at low currents
and any contamination of surfaces will create vapour that destroys the
shielding gas properties.

I found gasless wire might be good outside but gives a pretty poor result.

That gassless process is not suitable for thin guage metal IMO. It's
too close to MMA welding and it's far too easy to blow holes in thin
stuff. For car panels, you really must have plain steel wire and
CO2/Argon 15/85 or thereabouts.

I couldn't use an old fashioned transformer stick welder to save my
life, but I find I can weld thin stuff better with a Lidl inverter MMA
than with MIG gasless.

On 30/01/2021 22:04, newshound wrote:
On 30/01/2021 21:31, Paul Benton wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 16:55:19 +0000, Fredxx
wrote:

On 30/01/2021 16:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â*Â* Paul Benton wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 11:34:53 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Looks like you could grind the welds down a bit more. Do they seem
to have
penetrated both bits of steel? Looks don't much matter, but I'd
need to be
sure the weld is strong. Covering it up with gobs of underseal is
going to
make the tester look far more closely. And rightly so.

That's the main issue with MIG: you can't really tell! The truth is I
just don't know. I've jacked it up and belted it with a club hammer
and it ain't goin' nowhere. HOWEVER, whether it would survive intact
after a smash is another matter altogether. A complete unknown.

I'd try belting a few random globs of weld with a hammer and punch. If
they stay in place, they'll have penetrated.

I'm an expert at really bad welding. Despite practising and even
modifying
my MIG to give a better slow speed wire feed, I've never mastered
welding
thin stuff.

What type of wire do you use, and what was the shielding gas?

Cleanliness is key. It's tricky to get the feed right at low currents
and any contamination of surfaces will create vapour that destroys the
shielding gas properties.

I found gasless wire might be good outside but gives a pretty poor
result.

That gassless process is not suitable for thin guage metal IMO. It's
too close to MMA welding and it's far too easy to blow holes in thin
stuff. For car panels, you really must have plain steel wire and
CO2/Argon 15/85 or thereabouts.

I couldn't use an old fashioned transformer stick welder to save my
life, but I find I can weld thin stuff better with a Lidl inverter MMA
than with MIG gasless.

Even thin steel?

My main complaint with gasless is the spatter.

newshound laid this down on his screen :
I couldn't use an old fashioned transformer stick welder to save my life, but
I find I can weld thin stuff better with a Lidl inverter MMA than with MIG
gasless.

I first tried stick welding long ago and can make a respectable job on
that, but struggle much more with MIG. The secret with either, seems to
be practice and confidence. An auto-darkening faceshield helps a lot
too.

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
newshound laid this down on his screen :
I couldn't use an old fashioned transformer stick welder to save my life, but
I find I can weld thin stuff better with a Lidl inverter MMA than with MIG
gasless.

I first tried stick welding long ago and can make a respectable job on
that, but struggle much more with MIG. The secret with either, seems to
be practice and confidence. An auto-darkening faceshield helps a lot
too.

Think I've tried everything. Was told my welder - a best buy in a hobby
mag - was rubbish. So changed the motor speed controller to a PWM type to
keep the speed consistent at low feed speeds. Did make a very satisfactory
job of welding thicker ally and stainless steel with it, though.

Could be because I do so much soldering. ;-)

--
*I have my own little world - but it's OK...they know me here*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 31/01/2021 13:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
newshound laid this down on his screen :
I couldn't use an old fashioned transformer stick welder to save my life, but
I find I can weld thin stuff better with a Lidl inverter MMA than with MIG
gasless.

I first tried stick welding long ago and can make a respectable job on
that, but struggle much more with MIG. The secret with either, seems to
be practice and confidence. An auto-darkening faceshield helps a lot
too.

Think I've tried everything. Was told my welder - a best buy in a hobby
mag - was rubbish. So changed the motor speed controller to a PWM type to
keep the speed consistent at low feed speeds. Did make a very satisfactory
job of welding thicker ally and stainless steel with it, though.

Could be because I do so much soldering. ;-)


Stainless with a MIG/MAG? While ally can be done by MIG I thought TIG
was a prerequisite for stainless?

In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
Think I've tried everything. Was told my welder - a best buy in a
hobby mag - was rubbish. So changed the motor speed controller to a
PWM type to keep the speed consistent at low feed speeds. Did make a
very satisfactory job of welding thicker ally and stainless steel with
it, though.

Could be because I do so much soldering. ;-)


Stainless with a MIG/MAG? While ally can be done by MIG I thought TIG
was a prerequisite for stainless?

Got some stainless wire from Halfords. Welded a bush for an O2 wideband
into a SS exhaust - off the car. Seemed to make a pretty decent job - it's
still there years later. Of course it may not be as strong as TIG.

--
*Why 'that tie suits you' but 'those shoes suit you'?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 31/01/2021 16:44, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
Think I've tried everything. Was told my welder - a best buy in a
hobby mag - was rubbish. So changed the motor speed controller to a
PWM type to keep the speed consistent at low feed speeds. Did make a
very satisfactory job of welding thicker ally and stainless steel with
it, though.

Could be because I do so much soldering. ;-)


Stainless with a MIG/MAG? While ally can be done by MIG I thought TIG
was a prerequisite for stainless?

Got some stainless wire from Halfords. Welded a bush for an O2 wideband
into a SS exhaust - off the car. Seemed to make a pretty decent job - it's
still there years later. Of course it may not be as strong as TIG.

Thanks, I have a MIG welder but never used for anything other than
steel. It's very old and I'm sure a more modern unit would assist in
better quality welds. I'm trying hard to find an excuse to buy a TIG
machine :-)

On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 16:44:33 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

snip

Got some stainless wire from Halfords. Welded a bush for an O2 wideband
into a SS exhaust - off the car. Seemed to make a pretty decent job - it's
still there years later.

Yup. When I built the kitcar (30+ years ago) I quickly found the
factory 'universal' side exit SS exhaust was way too loud for my
tastes and so bought a stock 'Grundy' (?) SS system for a Mk2 Escort
Saloon, shortened it by 10" to suit the kitcar wheelbase and re-welded
it with std steel wire on a MIG welder and it's all still on there
now. ;-)

Of course it may not be as strong as TIG.

I'm not sure how much stronger mine would have needed to have been if
it's already lasted 30+ years. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 13:37:00 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
newshound laid this down on his screen :
I couldn't use an old fashioned transformer stick welder to save my life, but
I find I can weld thin stuff better with a Lidl inverter MMA than with MIG
gasless.

I first tried stick welding long ago and can make a respectable job on
that, but struggle much more with MIG. The secret with either, seems to
be practice and confidence. An auto-darkening faceshield helps a lot
too.

Think I've tried everything. Was told my welder - a best buy in a hobby
mag - was rubbish. So changed the motor speed controller to a PWM type to
keep the speed consistent at low feed speeds. Did make a very satisfactory
job of welding thicker ally and stainless steel with it, though.

A good starting point would be a high speed motor, PWM-controlled,
coupled up to a suitable gearing system. I've thought about doing this
many times myself to add a MIG facility to my big old Oxford arc
welder. Seems a waste of space and money to buy a dedicated MIG
inverter when there's not that much involved in adding a MIG function
to a MMA welder.

On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 14:16:02 +0000, Fredxx
wrote:

On 31/01/2021 13:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
newshound laid this down on his screen :
I couldn't use an old fashioned transformer stick welder to save my life, but
I find I can weld thin stuff better with a Lidl inverter MMA than with MIG
gasless.

I first tried stick welding long ago and can make a respectable job on
that, but struggle much more with MIG. The secret with either, seems to
be practice and confidence. An auto-darkening faceshield helps a lot
too.

Think I've tried everything. Was told my welder - a best buy in a hobby
mag - was rubbish. So changed the motor speed controller to a PWM type to
keep the speed consistent at low feed speeds. Did make a very satisfactory
job of welding thicker ally and stainless steel with it, though.

Could be because I do so much soldering. ;-)


Stainless with a MIG/MAG? While ally can be done by MIG I thought TIG
was a prerequisite for stainless?

Nope. They made stainless rods for MMA welders; have done for decades.

On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 17:09:52 +0000, Fredxx
wrote:

On 31/01/2021 16:44, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
Think I've tried everything. Was told my welder - a best buy in a
hobby mag - was rubbish. So changed the motor speed controller to a
PWM type to keep the speed consistent at low feed speeds. Did make a
very satisfactory job of welding thicker ally and stainless steel with
it, though.

Could be because I do so much soldering. ;-)


Stainless with a MIG/MAG? While ally can be done by MIG I thought TIG
was a prerequisite for stainless?

Got some stainless wire from Halfords. Welded a bush for an O2 wideband
into a SS exhaust - off the car. Seemed to make a pretty decent job - it's
still there years later. Of course it may not be as strong as TIG.

Thanks, I have a MIG welder but never used for anything other than
steel. It's very old and I'm sure a more modern unit would assist in
better quality welds. I'm trying hard to find an excuse to buy a TIG
machine :-)

No point unless you're doing exotic metals in pristine condition that
need to look pretty.

On 31/01/2021 18:03, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 17:09:52 +0000, Fredxx
wrote:

On 31/01/2021 16:44, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxx wrote:
Think I've tried everything. Was told my welder - a best buy in a
hobby mag - was rubbish. So changed the motor speed controller to a
PWM type to keep the speed consistent at low feed speeds. Did make a
very satisfactory job of welding thicker ally and stainless steel with
it, though.

Could be because I do so much soldering. ;-)


Stainless with a MIG/MAG? While ally can be done by MIG I thought TIG
was a prerequisite for stainless?

Got some stainless wire from Halfords. Welded a bush for an O2 wideband
into a SS exhaust - off the car. Seemed to make a pretty decent job - it's
still there years later. Of course it may not be as strong as TIG.

Thanks, I have a MIG welder but never used for anything other than
steel. It's very old and I'm sure a more modern unit would assist in
better quality welds. I'm trying hard to find an excuse to buy a TIG
machine :-)

No point unless you're doing exotic metals in pristine condition that
need to look pretty.

I guess all welds can be ground and dressed. But TIG gives better
control over puddle creation and use of filler rod.

My recent MIG work has been a bit hit and miss, although I can wire
brush to a mirror like surface I still find the deposition is still
rather variable. I could blame my welder of course!

On 29/01/2021 21:25, Paul Benton wrote:
Hi,


I've been forced to DIY a bit of welding on this old car I'm doing up
for the MOT which involves replacing a jacking point which was badly
rusted. Never having used a MIG before (and don't it show) I made a
bit of a mess of it. Question is, ugly as it undeniably is, would it
make MOT standard as it stands? If not, how about after a couple of
coats of really thick underseal?


https://yadi.sk/a/3JCu11C8848DhQ

I'm waiting to hear if it passed?

Mike

On 01/02/2021 13:30, Muddymike wrote:
On 29/01/2021 21:25, Paul Benton wrote:
Hi,


I've been forced to DIY a bit of welding on this old car I'm doing up
for the MOT which involves replacing a jacking point which was badly
rusted. Never having used a MIG before (and don't it show) I made a
bit of a mess of it. Question is, ugly as it undeniably is, would it
make MOT standard as it stands? If not, how about after a couple of
coats of really thick underseal?


https://yadi.sk/a/3JCu11C8848DhQ

I'm waiting to hear if it passed?

Mike

So am I. My Dad's car has just gone to the garage for 2 new wings and
the sills welding.

--
Adam

In article ,
ARW wrote:
On 01/02/2021 13:30, Muddymike wrote:
On 29/01/2021 21:25, Paul Benton wrote:
Hi,


I've been forced to DIY a bit of welding on this old car I'm doing up
for the MOT which involves replacing a jacking point which was badly
rusted. Never having used a MIG before (and don't it show) I made a
bit of a mess of it. Question is, ugly as it undeniably is, would it
make MOT standard as it stands? If not, how about after a couple of
coats of really thick underseal?


https://yadi.sk/a/3JCu11C8848DhQ

I'm waiting to hear if it passed?

Mike

So am I. My Dad's car has just gone to the garage for 2 new wings and
the sills welding.

I'm surprised it's worth the cost of doing that - unless a classic.

--
*Rehab is for quitters

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.