On 02/11/2020 07:18:53, Andy Burns wrote:
Fredxx wrote:

What's wrong with iron nails?

Ask the sawmill

I'm sure they would be fine with any nails after the wood was sawn?

On 02/11/2020 04:58, Rod Speed wrote:


Nope. Trivial to use a biodegradable attachment
that will last longer than the box,


Maybe you would share your insight? Or are you on the normal Rod Speed
thing?

TW

On 02/11/2020 14:53:33, TimW wrote:
On 02/11/2020 03:26, wrote:
On Sunday, 1 November 2020 16:31:44 UTC, TimWÂ* wrote:

I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like
nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be
100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but
ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic
ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional
rope is required.

There's a bewildering array of different materials - coir, hemp, flax
etc and some treatments as well like tarred rope. Does anyone know what
is a good choice here for just lasting a few years out in the weather?
Is it better to have thicker rope for lasting, or just strong enough to
do the job?

TW

So you want a fixing that will drop the box to the ground every few
years. I could ask, but there won't be any sensible reason.

A screw would be more sensible.


No. I want a fixing which can be expected to outlast the wooden box, but
not last forever.

My experience is that after 20 years in the elements, even a galvanised
screw would have been pretty well wasted away.

Fredxx wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Fredxx wrote:

What's wrong with iron nails?

Ask the sawmill

I'm sure they would be fine with any nails after the wood was sawn?

I wasn't thinking of the wood the birdhouse is to be made from, but the
next generation of tree to be chopped-down and sawn after the birdhouse
is gone.

On 02/11/2020 01:01, michael adams wrote:
"TimW" wrote in message ...
I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like nesting boxes out in
some woodland. The Desire is that they should be 100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable,
so they last as long as poss but ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees
with synthetic ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional
rope is required.

There's a bewildering array of different materials - coir, hemp, flax etc and some
treatments as well like tarred rope. Does anyone know what is a good choice here for
just lasting a few years out in the weather? Is it better to have thicker rope for
lasting, or just strong enough to do the job?

TW

Drill an appropriate sized angled hole in the trunk, insert a length of wooden
dowel and suspend the nest box from that,

Repeat as necessary

A shallow hole won't harm the tree in any way.

Neither will an iron nail (and it will eventually rust away).

Do not use a copper one though.

My nest boxes are hung on nails.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
On 02/11/2020 01:01, michael adams wrote:
"TimW" wrote in message ...
I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like nesting boxes out
in
some woodland. The Desire is that they should be 100% (or at least 99%)
biodegradable,
so they last as long as poss but ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees
with synthetic ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So
traditional
rope is required.

There's a bewildering array of different materials - coir, hemp, flax etc and some
treatments as well like tarred rope. Does anyone know what is a good choice here for
just lasting a few years out in the weather? Is it better to have thicker rope for
lasting, or just strong enough to do the job?

TW

Drill an appropriate sized angled hole in the trunk, insert a length of wooden
dowel and suspend the nest box from that,

Repeat as necessary

A shallow hole won't harm the tree in any way.

Neither will an iron nail (and it will eventually rust away).

Do not use a copper one though.

My nest boxes are hung on nails.

Indeed and possibly you regularly clean them out as recommended
so as to remove dead nestlings, old nests, and flea infestations.
..
And so can remove the nail once the nestbox is no longer required
thus satisfying the biodegradeable requirement, after all.


michael adams

....

....



--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article ,
TimW wrote:
I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like
nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be
100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but
ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic
ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional
rope is required.

There's a bewildering array of different materials - coir, hemp, flax
etc and some treatments as well like tarred rope. Does anyone know what
is a good choice here for just lasting a few years out in the weather?
Is it better to have thicker rope for lasting, or just strong enough to
do the job?

What are you making the boxes from? I assume no wood preservatives etc, so
I'd guess most natural ropes will last just as long. ;-)

--
*Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 02/11/2020 16:43, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
TimW wrote:
I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like
nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be
100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but
ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic
ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional
rope is required.

There's a bewildering array of different materials - coir, hemp, flax
etc and some treatments as well like tarred rope. Does anyone know what
is a good choice here for just lasting a few years out in the weather?
Is it better to have thicker rope for lasting, or just strong enough to
do the job?

What are you making the boxes from? I assume no wood preservatives etc, so
I'd guess most natural ropes will last just as long. ;-)



From pallet wood provisionally. I wouldn't expect them to last very
many years. They aren't actually bird boxes and they can be quite heavy.

TW

"TimW" wrote in message
...
On 02/11/2020 04:58, Rod Speed wrote:


Nope. Trivial to use a biodegradable attachment
that will last longer than the box,


Maybe you would share your insight?

Some wood pegs are known to last much
longer than what the box is made of.

"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 02/11/2020 14:53:33, TimW wrote:
On 02/11/2020 03:26, wrote:
On Sunday, 1 November 2020 16:31:44 UTC, TimW wrote:

I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like
nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be
100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but
ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic
ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional
rope is required.

There's a bewildering array of different materials - coir, hemp, flax
etc and some treatments as well like tarred rope. Does anyone know what
is a good choice here for just lasting a few years out in the weather?
Is it better to have thicker rope for lasting, or just strong enough to
do the job?

TW

So you want a fixing that will drop the box to the ground every few
years. I could ask, but there won't be any sensible reason.

A screw would be more sensible.


No. I want a fixing which can be expected to outlast the wooden box, but
not last forever.

My experience is that after 20 years in the elements, even a galvanised
screw would have been pretty well wasted away.

Not my experience. My Oregon barge boards are bolted to
the steel behind them using galvanised gutter bolts and they
are all still as good as when they were first used, 50 years later.

On 02/11/2020 14:56, TimW wrote:
I want the whole arrangement to be immune to accusations of littering.

Nothing you do in a public space can be immune to any sort of
accusation. Someone will always find fault, no matter how careful you are.

Bill

On 02/11/2020 16:51, TimW wrote:
From pallet wood provisionally.

You will be complicit in the clearance of tropical forests! (It's
surprisingly nice wood though. I have a stack of pallets and the wood
comes in very useful.)

Bill

On 03/11/2020 02:31, williamwright wrote:
On 02/11/2020 14:56, TimW wrote:
I want the whole arrangement to be immune to accusations of littering.

Nothing you do in a public space can be immune to any sort of
accusation. Someone will always find fault, no matter how careful you are.



Exactly!

Tim w

In message , williamwright
writes
On 02/11/2020 16:51, TimW wrote:
From pallet wood provisionally.

You will be complicit in the clearance of tropical forests! (It's
surprisingly nice wood though. I have a stack of pallets and the wood
comes in very useful.)

Hmm. My last lot of OSB came from Estonia. I suspect pallet wood comes
from a similar temperate evergreen source.

--
Tim Lamb

On 03/11/2020 02:33, williamwright wrote:
On 02/11/2020 16:51, TimW wrote:
Â*From pallet wood provisionally.

You will be complicit in the clearance of tropical forests!Â* (It's
surprisingly nice wood though. I have a stack of pallets and the wood
comes in very useful.)

Bill


I have been slowly learning how to get them apart without splitting the
wood. Do you have any good techniques?

I have found cutting through nails and punching them out much easier
than trying to extract them whole or to prise the pieces apart, but I
have run out of old blunt hand saws to do the job with. They become
toothless and too blunt after a bit. Some people use a power saw - a
sabre saw? but I don't have one.

TW

On 03/11/2020 11:32, TimW wrote:

I have found cutting through nails and punching them out much easier
than trying to extract them whole or to prise the pieces apart, but I
have run out of old blunt hand saws to do the job with. They become
toothless and too blunt after a bit. Some people use a power saw - a
sabre saw? but I don't have one.

TW

I cut the heads off the nails with a thin blade in an angle grinder or
dremmel, cutting at an angle just under the head. The wood then prises
off quite easily. Obviously I try to minimise the area of damage to the
surface, but I'm often planing a mm or so off so it doesn't matter too much.

Alternatively, sometimes the nailed ends can be cut off, and they become
waste.

I think you have to have the attitude that you are harvesting only the
cream of the crop. I use the waste for my garden firepit thingy. The big
blocks are ideal for that.

My son has made garden furniture and planters from pallets. The first
step is often to repair the pallet, sometimes using wood from other,
poorer, pallets.

The main tools for this job are a fairly powerful jig saw with a long
blade, and a reciprocating saw. And a hammer. And pincers.

Bill

In article ,
williamwright wrote:
My son has made garden furniture and planters from pallets. The first
step is often to repair the pallet, sometimes using wood from other,
poorer, pallets.

I was cursing a delivery firm for leaving the pallet. Since it was wet, I
left it outside. Gone by the next day. Good to know they get used. ;-)

--
*A bartender is just a pharmacist with a limited inventory.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 01/11/2020 16:31, TimW wrote:
I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like
nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be
100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but
ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic
ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional
rope is required.

There's a bewildering array of different materials - coir, hemp, flax
etc and some treatments as well like tarred rope. Does anyone know what
is a good choice here for just lasting a few years out in the weather?
Is it better to have thicker rope for lasting, or just strong enough to
do the job?

TW


Hemp or jute would suit, and reasonably common.

On 01/11/2020 16:31, TimW wrote:
I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like
nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be
100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but
ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic
ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional
rope is required.

There's a bewildering array of different materials - coir, hemp, flax
etc and some treatments as well like tarred rope. Does anyone know what
is a good choice here for just lasting a few years out in the weather?
Is it better to have thicker rope for lasting, or just strong enough to
do the job?

TW

Hemp or Jute be good for a few years.

On 03/11/2020 16:43, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I was cursing a delivery firm for leaving the pallet. Since it was wet, I
left it outside. Gone by the next day. Good to know they get used. ;-)


Oh, they're great things are pallets.

Bill

On Tuesday, November 3, 2020 at 11:32:44 AM UTC, TimW wrote:
On 03/11/2020 02:33, williamwright wrote:
On 02/11/2020 16:51, TimW wrote:
From pallet wood provisionally.

You will be complicit in the clearance of tropical forests! (It's
surprisingly nice wood though. I have a stack of pallets and the wood
comes in very useful.)

Bill
I have been slowly learning how to get them apart without splitting the
wood. Do you have any good techniques?

I have found cutting through nails and punching them out much easier
than trying to extract them whole or to prise the pieces apart, but I
have run out of old blunt hand saws to do the job with. They become
toothless and too blunt after a bit. Some people use a power saw - a
sabre saw? but I don't have one.

TW

There are some techniques shown on the web - you knock out the middle
blocks and then tidy up the rest. I have done this for a few pallets with
a small sledgehammer + bolster chisel, and a 'wrecking bar'. Works OK.

For large quantities there is a tool called a 'pallet buster' - again, easily
searched for. You can buy these although welding one up yourself would
be in the right spirit...

In message , Jethro_uk
writes
On Wed, 04 Nov 2020 02:02:50 -0800, jkn wrote:

For large quantities there is a tool called a 'pallet buster' - again,
easily searched for. You can buy these although welding one up yourself
would be in the right spirit...

FiL, whose father in turn was a decorator, had a handed down tool for
extracting nails from door frames (not quite sure why).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hultafors-A.../dp/B004ZFEO4E

Looks a bit like it.

I have one for fencing work. Ideal for staples. Mine has a built in
slide hammer.

Pallet nails tend to be ring shank:-(



--
Tim Lamb

On 02/11/2020 11:55, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 02 Nov 2020 10:03:16 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

So traditional rope is required.

Would leather straps be an option?

Or osier shoots?

Or just long strands of willow, now I think of it ? Woven into a crude
rope.


There's a thought.
We have one of these in the garden:
https://www.wilsonbrosgardens.com/Pr...in-Grass-.html
Bloody thing is a nightmare as it overhangs the edge of the grass and
the leafs have a magnetic attraction to the lawnmower and are incredibly
tough.
The old dead leafs are about 3' long and very fibrous but can be knotted
together so I'd think any plant like that would do the trick.

On 02/11/2020 15:33, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Mon, 02 Nov 2020 15:07:35 +0000, Andrew wrote:

On 02/11/2020 14:57, TimW wrote:
On 01/11/2020 17:52, nightjar wrote:
On 01/11/2020 16:31, TimW wrote:
I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like
nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be
100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss
but ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with
synthetic ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So
traditional rope is required.

There's a bewildering array of different materials - coir, hemp, flax
etc and some treatments as well like tarred rope. Does anyone know
what is a good choice here for just lasting a few years out in the
weather? Is it better to have thicker rope for lasting, or just
strong enough to do the job?

The best rope for outdoor use is undoubtedly Manila. It can last up to
10 years either in dry or in wet but windy conditions. Not having a
chance to dry out will, however, shorten its life. It needs to be
pre-shrunk, by keeping in water overnight, when it will lose up to 10%
of its length. Failing to do that will result in it shrinking when it
first gets wet.

Sisal or hemp are unlikely to last more than three years outdoors and
may last much less.

Tarred rope requires regular re-treatment to avoid the rope rotting
and I suspect that pine tar is probably not something you want around
nesting boxes.


Thanks, that's really useful info! TW

What do BaE systems use to maintain the Victory down at Pompey ?.

I'd guess whatevers cheapest to maintain ? After all, there's zero chance
the ropes will actually be needed to haul sails. (Unlike the USS
Constitution)


But they have to stop rigging falling on visitors heads, so I Imagine
they would use the correct stuff. It's probably a grade 1 listed
structure anyway,now it is permanently landlocked.

On 04/11/2020 11:10, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Jethro_uk
writes
On Wed, 04 Nov 2020 02:02:50 -0800, jkn wrote:

For large quantities there is a tool called a 'pallet buster' - again,
easily searched for. You can buy these although welding one up yourself
would be in the right spirit...

FiL, whose father in turn was a decorator, had a handed down tool for
extracting nails from door frames (not quite sure why).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hultafors-A.../dp/B004ZFEO4E

Looks a bit like it.

I have one for fencing work. Ideal for staples. Mine has a built in
slide hammer.

Pallet nails tend to be ring shank:-(




Stanley do a very good one for about £15. Great for removing
chipboard nails without leaving a massive crater in the board.

On 04/11/2020 10:34, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2020 02:02:50 -0800, jkn wrote:

For large quantities there is a tool called a 'pallet buster' - again,
easily searched for. You can buy these although welding one up yourself
would be in the right spirit...

FiL, whose father in turn was a decorator, had a handed down tool for
extracting nails from door frames (not quite sure why).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hultafors-A.../dp/B004ZFEO4E

Looks a bit like it.


A really handy bit of kit! I have one myself, but the annular ring nails
in pallets are really hard to withdraw even so, which is why I took to
cutting them.

My Dad had a nail tool of similar design but with a sliding weight to
'hammer'it in with. He had it for opening packing cases and said it was
essential kit when in the Forces moving from Married Quarter to Married
Quarter with all your belongings nailed up in tea chests each time.

TW

On 03/11/2020 19:35, rick wrote:
On 01/11/2020 16:31, TimW wrote:
I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like
nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be
100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but
ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic
ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So
traditional rope is required.

There's a bewildering array of different materials - coir, hemp, flax
etc and some treatments as well like tarred rope. Does anyone know
what is a good choice here for just lasting a few years out in the
weather? Is it better to have thicker rope for lasting, or just strong
enough to do the job?

TW

Hemp or Jute be good for a few years.

Ta!

TimW wrote:

williamwright wrote:

TimW wrote:

From pallet wood provisionally.

I have a stack of pallets and the wood comes in very useful.

I have been slowly learning how to get them apart without splitting the
wood. Do you have any good techniques?

I have found cutting through nails and punching them out much easier
than trying to extract them whole or to prise the pieces apart, but I
have run out of old blunt hand saws to do the job with.

A "nail kicker" looks handy if you pull lots of them apart

https://youtu.be/oFSFt3V0JNM