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traditional ropes
I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like
nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be 100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional rope is required. There's a bewildering array of different materials - coir, hemp, flax etc and some treatments as well like tarred rope. Does anyone know what is a good choice here for just lasting a few years out in the weather? Is it better to have thicker rope for lasting, or just strong enough to do the job? TW |
traditional ropes
On 01/11/2020 16:31, TimW wrote:
I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be 100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional rope is required. There's a bewildering array of different materials - coir, hemp, flax etc and some treatments as well like tarred rope. Does anyone know what is a good choice here for just lasting a few years out in the weather? Is it better to have thicker rope for lasting, or just strong enough to do the job? TW How very bonkers. Bill |
traditional ropes
On 01/11/2020 16:44, williamwright wrote:
On 01/11/2020 16:31, TimW wrote: I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be 100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional rope is required. There's a bewildering array of different materials - coir, hemp, flax etc and some treatments as well like tarred rope. Does anyone know what is a good choice here for just lasting a few years out in the weather? Is it better to have thicker rope for lasting, or just strong enough to do the job? TW How very bonkers. Bill Yes there is an element of bonkerishness but I believe it's a worthy cause. TW |
traditional ropes
On 01/11/2020 16:49, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 01 Nov 2020 16:31:40 +0000, TimW wrote: I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be 100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional rope is required. There's a bewildering array of different materials - coir, hemp, flax etc and some treatments as well like tarred rope. Does anyone know what is a good choice here for just lasting a few years out in the weather? Is it better to have thicker rope for lasting, or just strong enough to do the job? TW No idea, but for some reason I am reminded of seeing a bicycle that had been leaned against a tree and grown into the trunk a few feet off the ground (I think there was a story it belonged to a lad who went to WW1 and never came back). Certainly didn't seem to harm the tree ! returning to the OP, surely anything used to *bind* to a trunk is going to suffer one of 2 fates. It's stronger than the trunks growth (unlikley) and the trunk subsumes it. Or it's weaker and at somepoint - no matter what it's made of - it will snap (hopefully not letting anything fall on anyone below ....). AFAICR hemp is natural and vulnerable to damp. You are right that some thought should be given to the method of attachment. They don't need to be tightly bound to the trunk, maybe sitting on a branch and loosely held in place, or hanging down even. TW |
traditional ropes
On 01/11/2020 16:31, TimW wrote:
I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be 100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional rope is required. There's a bewildering array of different materials - coir, hemp, flax etc and some treatments as well like tarred rope. Does anyone know what is a good choice here for just lasting a few years out in the weather? Is it better to have thicker rope for lasting, or just strong enough to do the job? The best rope for outdoor use is undoubtedly Manila. It can last up to 10 years either in dry or in wet but windy conditions. Not having a chance to dry out will, however, shorten its life. It needs to be pre-shrunk, by keeping in water overnight, when it will lose up to 10% of its length. Failing to do that will result in it shrinking when it first gets wet. Sisal or hemp are unlikely to last more than three years outdoors and may last much less. Tarred rope requires regular re-treatment to avoid the rope rotting and I suspect that pine tar is probably not something you want around nesting boxes. -- Colin Bignell |
traditional ropes
On 01/11/2020 16:49, Jethro_uk wrote:
AFAICR hemp is natural and vulnerable to damp. That would be why prior to chains it was used exclusively by the Royal Navy and all merchant ships, then -- It is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong. Thomas Sowell |
traditional ropes
On Sun, 1 Nov 2020 16:58:57 +0000, TimW wrote:
Yes there is an element of bonkerishness but I believe it's a worthy cause. Aye. Wonder if the birdies will decide that strands of natural rope fibre make ideal nest material? -- Cheers Dave. |
traditional ropes
On 01/11/2020 16:58, TimW wrote:
How very bonkers. Bill Yes there is an element of bonkerishness but I believe it's a worthy cause. It's all about making you feel happier about yourself. Bill |
traditional ropes
On 01/11/2020 21:21, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 1 Nov 2020 16:58:57 +0000, TimW wrote: Yes there is an element of bonkerishness but I believe it's a worthy cause. Aye. Wonder if the birdies will decide that strands of natural rope fibre make ideal nest material? Birds are terrible for this sort of thing. They do no end of damage to aerials and cables. Bill |
traditional ropes
On 01/11/2020 16:31, TimW wrote:
I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be 100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional rope is required. Why not use whatever you want and then collect it after a couple of years and recycle it? Bill |
traditional ropes
On 01/11/2020 20:01, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/11/2020 16:49, Jethro_uk wrote: AFAICR hemp is natural and vulnerable to damp. That would be why prior to chains it was used exclusively by the Royal Navy and all merchant ships, then Getting wet and then being dried is not damp. Bill |
traditional ropes
"TimW" wrote in message ... I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be 100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional rope is required. There's a bewildering array of different materials - coir, hemp, flax etc and some treatments as well like tarred rope. Does anyone know what is a good choice here for just lasting a few years out in the weather? Is it better to have thicker rope for lasting, or just strong enough to do the job? TW Drill an appropriate sized angled hole in the trunk, insert a length of wooden dowel and suspend the nest box from that, Repeat as necessary A shallow hole won't harm the tree in any way. michael adams .... |
traditional ropes
"michael adams" wrote in message ... "TimW" wrote in message ... I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be 100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional rope is required. There's a bewildering array of different materials - coir, hemp, flax etc and some treatments as well like tarred rope. Does anyone know what is a good choice here for just lasting a few years out in the weather? Is it better to have thicker rope for lasting, or just strong enough to do the job? TW Drill an appropriate sized angled hole in the trunk, insert a length of wooden dowel and suspend the nest box from that, .... Actually you don't even need dowel. Just rough pegs fashioned from the same species of timber as the boxes. And level rather than angled holes. If the pegs are fittted securely to the box but a loose fit in the hole then when the box eventually falls down it should take the peg down with it. Repeat as necessary A shallow hole won't harm the tree in any way. michael adams ... |
traditional ropes
"TimW" wrote in message ... I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be 100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional rope is required. Isn't this risking unwarrented distress, never mind cruellty to any adult birds and nestlings who may find tjhemselves trapped in a nestbox which has plummeted to ground as a result of a rope failing "prematurely" michael adams .... |
traditional ropes
On 01/11/2020 16:31:40, TimW wrote:
I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be 100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional rope is required. There's a bewildering array of different materials - coir, hemp, flax etc and some treatments as well like tarred rope. Does anyone know what is a good choice here for just lasting a few years out in the weather? Is it better to have thicker rope for lasting, or just strong enough to do the job? What's wrong with iron nails? Or Michael Adams' use of wooden pegs? A rope around a tree will a variable life-time and may restrict growth in the area affected as well as the tree finally engulfing the rope. There are also some plastics that do degrade. |
traditional ropes
"michael adams" wrote in message ... "TimW" wrote in message ... I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be 100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional rope is required. Isn't this risking unwarrented distress, never mind cruellty to any adult birds and nestlings who may find tjhemselves trapped in a nestbox which has plummeted to ground as a result of a rope failing "prematurely" Just as true of your wooden peg in the tree. That will likely fail before the box does. |
traditional ropes
"Rod Speed" wrote in message ... "michael adams" wrote in message ... "TimW" wrote in message ... I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be 100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional rope is required. Isn't this risking unwarrented distress, never mind cruellty to any adult birds and nestlings who may find tjhemselves trapped in a nestbox which has plummeted to ground as a result of a rope failing "prematurely" Just as true of your wooden peg in the tree. That will likely fail before the box does. Indeed. It's true of all wholly biodegradable solutions, potentially. Which was rather my point. It's just thst it took me three posts to finally arrive at that concluion, Plus another one, having to explain it to people such as yourself, at the back of the class. michael adams .... |
traditional ropes
On Sunday, 1 November 2020 16:31:44 UTC, TimW wrote:
I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be 100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional rope is required. There's a bewildering array of different materials - coir, hemp, flax etc and some treatments as well like tarred rope. Does anyone know what is a good choice here for just lasting a few years out in the weather? Is it better to have thicker rope for lasting, or just strong enough to do the job? TW So you want a fixing that will drop the box to the ground every few years. I could ask, but there won't be any sensible reason. A screw would be more sensible. NT |
traditional ropes
wrote in message ... On Sunday, 1 November 2020 16:31:44 UTC, TimW wrote: I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be 100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional rope is required. There's a bewildering array of different materials - coir, hemp, flax etc and some treatments as well like tarred rope. Does anyone know what is a good choice here for just lasting a few years out in the weather? Is it better to have thicker rope for lasting, or just strong enough to do the job? TW So you want a fixing that will drop the box to the ground every few years. I could ask, but there won't be any sensible reason. A screw would be more sensible. Before or after ? Ideally you're supposed to regularly clean out nestboxes in any case so as to remove any dead nestlings, fleas, and old nests allowing the birds to bring in fresh nesting materials. So any screws could be removed once the box was no longer considered viable. This is of course on the assumption that these are closed boxes with an access hole. michael adams .... |
traditional ropes
"michael adams" wrote in message ... "Rod Speed" wrote in message ... "michael adams" wrote in message ... "TimW" wrote in message ... I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be 100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional rope is required. Isn't this risking unwarrented distress, never mind cruellty to any adult birds and nestlings who may find tjhemselves trapped in a nestbox which has plummeted to ground as a result of a rope failing "prematurely" Just as true of your wooden peg in the tree. That will likely fail before the box does. Indeed. It's true of all wholly biodegradable solutions, potentially. Nope. Trivial to use a biodegradable attachment that will last longer than the box, Which was rather my point. Like hell it was. It's just thst it took me three posts to finally arrive at that concluion, And still ****ed up completely. |
traditional ropes
On 01/11/2020 16:31, TimW wrote:
I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be 100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional rope is required. There's a bewildering array of different materials - coir, hemp, flax etc and some treatments as well like tarred rope. Does anyone know what is a good choice here for just lasting a few years out in the weather? Is it better to have thicker rope for lasting, or just strong enough to do the job? Won't the boxes be visited every couple of years or so to check they are not restricting the growth of the trees, which would allow the use of secure fixings (eg nylon straps) which can be removed when the boxes reach the end of their natural lives? -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
traditional ropes
Fredxx wrote:
What's wrong with iron nails? Ask the sawmill |
traditional ropes
I'd not want to be the bird in the box when your rope gives way in the
middle of a gale. Brian -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "TimW" wrote in message ... On 01/11/2020 16:44, williamwright wrote: On 01/11/2020 16:31, TimW wrote: I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be 100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional rope is required. There's a bewildering array of different materials - coir, hemp, flax etc and some treatments as well like tarred rope. Does anyone know what is a good choice here for just lasting a few years out in the weather? Is it better to have thicker rope for lasting, or just strong enough to do the job? TW How very bonkers. Bill Yes there is an element of bonkerishness but I believe it's a worthy cause. TW |
traditional ropes
michael adams laid this down on his screen :
Isn't this risking unwarrented distress, never mind cruellty to any adult birds and nestlings who may find tjhemselves trapped in a nestbox which has plummeted to ground as a result of a rope failing "prematurely" Might a suitable legal notice above the entrance to the nesting box, 'Use at your own risk' - obviate the risk of being sueded by an injured bird? |
traditional ropes
In message , Andy Burns
writes Fredxx wrote: What's wrong with iron nails? Ask the sawmill Also discolours Oak. The last *blue Oak* stain I followed turned out to be a fixing for a telephone cable run. Probably fitted around 60 years ago. -- Tim Lamb |
traditional ropes
In message , Robin
writes On 01/11/2020 16:31, TimW wrote: I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be 100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional rope is required. There's a bewildering array of different materials - coir, hemp, flax etc and some treatments as well like tarred rope. Does anyone know what is a good choice here for just lasting a few years out in the weather? Is it better to have thicker rope for lasting, or just strong enough to do the job? Won't the boxes be visited every couple of years or so to check they are not restricting the growth of the trees, which would allow the use of secure fixings (eg nylon straps) which can be removed when the boxes reach the end of their natural lives? Some Owl boxes put up here (edge of spinney facing 17 acres of permanent grass) were ignored by potential residents. -- Tim Lamb |
traditional ropes
On 02/11/2020 07:18, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
So traditional rope is required. Would leather straps be an option? |
traditional ropes
On 1 Nov 2020 at 16:31:40 GMT, "TimW" wrote:
I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be 100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional rope is required. There's a bewildering array of different materials - coir, hemp, flax etc and some treatments as well like tarred rope. Does anyone know what is a good choice here for just lasting a few years out in the weather? Is it better to have thicker rope for lasting, or just strong enough to do the job? Wire? Or whatever they used to use for ship's rigging? -- Cheers, Rob |
traditional ropes
On 02/11/2020 09:33, ss wrote:
On 02/11/2020 07:18, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote: So traditional rope is required. Would leather straps be an option? Or osier shoots? -- It is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong. Thomas Sowell |
traditional ropes
On 02/11/2020 01:01, michael adams wrote:
A shallow hole won't harm the tree in any way. yes it will and a lot worse than using an aluminium nail, aluminium being for the benefit of future sawyers, trees don't mind steel. |
traditional ropes
"AJH" wrote in message ... On 02/11/2020 01:01, michael adams wrote: A shallow hole won't harm the tree in any way. yes it will and a lot worse than using an aluminium nail, aluminium being for the benefit of future sawyers, trees don't mind steel. Aluminium nails are less harmful than lengths of wooden dowel, are they ? michael adams .... .... |
traditional ropes
On 02/11/2020 01:01, michael adams wrote:
Drill an appropriate sized angled hole in the trunk, insert a length of wooden dowel and suspend the nest box from that, You've invented the branch Bill |
traditional ropes
On 02/11/2020 12:49, michael adams wrote:
"AJH" wrote in message ... On 02/11/2020 01:01, michael adams wrote: A shallow hole won't harm the tree in any way. yes it will and a lot worse than using an aluminium nail, aluminium being for the benefit of future sawyers, trees don't mind steel. Aluminium nails are less harmful than lengths of wooden dowel, are they ? Yes in that the penetration is immediatly sealed and very small compared with removing a plug to a depth which likely compromises the tree's ability to limit fungal action. |
traditional ropes
On 02/11/2020 01:21, michael adams wrote:
"TimW" wrote in message ... I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be 100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional rope is required. Isn't this risking unwarrented distress, never mind cruellty to any adult birds and nestlings who may find tjhemselves trapped in a nestbox which has plummeted to ground as a result of a rope failing "prematurely" That is exactly why I am wondering if a rope of natural fibre will last as long as my wooden box or longer. TW |
traditional ropes
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traditional ropes
On 02/11/2020 07:18, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
Hemp, but not tarred rope if you want it to rot. Some ropes also stretch or shrink as well so its worth bearing that in mind. I'll bow to others, but I'd just say, beware of some natural ropes as they are made of all sorts of crap. As a matter of interest, why does it all need to be bio degradable? I would it not be better to simply take them down clean them up and remove your non bio degradable stuff at that time? Brian I want the whole arrangement to be immune to accusations of littering. I don't want it to last as long as it can but ultimately to biodegrade to nothing. I don't want the method of mounting to fail prematurely. TW |
traditional ropes
On 01/11/2020 17:52, nightjar wrote:
On 01/11/2020 16:31, TimW wrote: I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be 100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional rope is required. There's a bewildering array of different materials - coir, hemp, flax etc and some treatments as well like tarred rope. Does anyone know what is a good choice here for just lasting a few years out in the weather? Is it better to have thicker rope for lasting, or just strong enough to do the job? The best rope for outdoor use is undoubtedly Manila. It can last up to 10 years either in dry or in wet but windy conditions. Not having a chance to dry out will, however, shorten its life. It needs to be pre-shrunk, by keeping in water overnight, when it will lose up to 10% of its length. Failing to do that will result in it shrinking when it first gets wet. Sisal or hemp are unlikely to last more than three years outdoors and may last much less. Tarred rope requires regular re-treatment to avoid the rope rotting and I suspect that pine tar is probably not something you want around nesting boxes. Thanks, that's really useful info! TW |
traditional ropes
On 02/11/2020 14:57, TimW wrote:
On 01/11/2020 17:52, nightjar wrote: On 01/11/2020 16:31, TimW wrote: I am involved in a project to put some small wooden structures like nesting boxes out in some woodland. The Desire is that they should be 100% (or at least 99%) biodegradable, so they last as long as poss but ultimately rot away to nothing. Fixing them in trees with synthetic ropes or straps is therefore obviously a complete no-no. So traditional rope is required. There's a bewildering array of different materials - coir, hemp, flax etc and some treatments as well like tarred rope. Does anyone know what is a good choice here for just lasting a few years out in the weather? Is it better to have thicker rope for lasting, or just strong enough to do the job? The best rope for outdoor use is undoubtedly Manila. It can last up to 10 years either in dry or in wet but windy conditions. Not having a chance to dry out will, however, shorten its life. It needs to be pre-shrunk, by keeping in water overnight, when it will lose up to 10% of its length. Failing to do that will result in it shrinking when it first gets wet. Sisal or hemp are unlikely to last more than three years outdoors and may last much less. Tarred rope requires regular re-treatment to avoid the rope rotting and I suspect that pine tar is probably not something you want around nesting boxes. Thanks, that's really useful info! TW What do BaE systems use to maintain the Victory down at Pompey ?. |
traditional ropes
On 02/11/2020 09:04:14, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Andy Burns writes Fredxx wrote: What's wrong with iron nails? Ask the sawmill Also discolours Oak. The last *blue Oak* stain I followed turned out to be a fixing for a telephone cable run. Probably fitted around 60 years ago. Yebbut - will the resident birds care over a little discolouration of their 'house'? |
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