As part of the re-furb we're starting to think about how to escape a
fire if the staircase is impassable. We plan to stay here until age and
decrepitude means we have to move, so the system needs to be usable by a
wide age range. There seem to be escape ladders or rope descenders (is
there anything else, apart from greasy poles?) but I can't imagine using
a rope ladder when old, and a rope descender either needs a return
mechanism or a descender and harness for each person.

What does the team think? Has anyone here been through the same process
and come up with a smart solution?

On Friday, 5 July 2019 09:06:48 UTC+1, wrote:
As part of the re-furb we're starting to think about how to escape a
fire if the staircase is impassable.

Smoke alarms should get you out before that stage, but you could also consider sprinklers over the escape route.

Has anyone here been through the same process
and come up with a smart solution?

https://www.safelincs.co.uk/external-fire-escapes/

Fixed and rigid ladders, so not dangly like rope/chain ladders. Also you step out sideways from the window rather than clambering over the sill.

Owain

On Fri, 5 Jul 2019 09:06:44 +0100, wrote:

As part of the re-furb we're starting to think about how to escape a
fire if the staircase is impassable. We plan to stay here until age and
decrepitude means we have to move, so the system needs to be usable by a
wide age range.

Escape from 1st floor only or higher?

One assumes you have working and correctly placed smoke alarms and a
telephone upstairs. How long will it take the fire and rescue service
to get to you? How close are your neighbours, have you their phone
numbers?

As you say rope (wire) ladders are awkward things even for the agile.


Thinking that as a closed domestic door will keep fire at bay for
quite a number of minutes and block the jam and floor gap with
whatever cloth is available (wet if possible) to keep the smoke and
fumes out (the real killers). Calling 999 and sitting tight maybe the
better bet if they'll be with you in less than 10 minutes.

No good here, the local, retained, fire and rescue pump would take
about fifteen minutes to arrive, by which time the place will be
"well alight". If a house catches fire outside of the town around
here the chances are it'll burn down. The next nearest pumps are 1/2
to 3/4 of a hour away.

If only from the first floor climb out of the window, lower yourself
full stretch of your arms, give a little push away from the wall and
drop. Feet to ground won't be much over 6', bend the knees roll out
of the fall, should getaway with just bruises. Plan ahead have a
border rather than something hard below escape windows.

Call the neighbours, get them to come and "catch" you from the arms
stretched position.

Keep a roll of gaffer tape in your escape room to save having to
stuff wet towels or what ever around the door. But be aware that
it'll burn through with hot gases quicker than a wet towel...

Fit a proper 30 min fire door and frame with bush and intumastic
seals to your escape room.

--
Cheers
Dave.

wrote

As part of the re-furb we're starting to think about how to escape a
fire if the staircase is impassable. We plan to stay here until age and
decrepitude means we have to move, so the system needs to be
usable by a wide age range. There seem to be escape ladders or
rope descenders (is there anything else, apart from greasy poles?)

Yep, surplus ejector seats.

but I can't imagine using a rope ladder when old,

True.

and a rope descender either needs a return mechanism
or a descender and harness for each person.

What does the team think?

Surplus ejector seats.

Has anyone here been through the same
process and come up with a smart solution?

Yep. My place is single story, what you lot call a bungalow,
with every room except the dunnys and bathrooms with
at least one patio door to the outside.

On 05/07/2019 09:06, wrote:
As part of the re-furb we're starting to think about how to escape a
fire if the staircase is impassable. We plan to stay here until age and
decrepitude means we have to move, so the system needs to be usable by a
wide age range. There seem to be escape ladders or rope descenders (is
there anything else, apart from greasy poles?) but I can't imagine using
a rope ladder when old, and a rope descender either needs a return
mechanism or a descender and harness for each person.

What does the team think? Has anyone here been through the same process
and come up with a smart solution?

Is there any special reason you expect the stairs to become impassable
quickly - eg are they open plan to the kitchen and living areas?

If not, FWLIW my conclusion was that if I reach the point where
interlinked smoke alarms don't give me enough time to get down the
stairs and out then it's time to start sleeping downstairs.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 05/07/2019 10:10, wrote:
On Friday, 5 July 2019 09:06:48 UTC+1, wrote:
As part of the re-furb we're starting to think about how to escape a
fire if the staircase is impassable.

Smoke alarms should get you out before that stage, but you could also consider sprinklers over the escape route.

Has anyone here been through the same process
and come up with a smart solution?

https://www.safelincs.co.uk/external-fire-escapes/

Fixed and rigid ladders, so not dangly like rope/chain ladders. Also you step out sideways from the window rather than clambering over the sill.

Owain


Fire alarms to make sure you are awake.

Depending on the layout, a hose pipe in the bathroom suitably attached
could be helpful, as could some fire resistant clothing.


--
Michael Chare

On 05/07/2019 10:10, wrote:
On Friday, 5 July 2019 09:06:48 UTC+1, wrote:
As part of the re-furb we're starting to think about how to escape a
fire if the staircase is impassable.

Smoke alarms should get you out before that stage, but you could also consider sprinklers over the escape route.
Smoke alarms are fitted but it's not big enough to justify sprinklers.

Has anyone here been through the same process
and come up with a smart solution?

https://www.safelincs.co.uk/external-fire-escapes/

Fixed and rigid ladders, so not dangly like rope/chain ladders. Also you step out sideways from the window rather than clambering over the sill.
Thanks, I hadn't seen those and they look interesting.

Owain

On 05/07/2019 10:15, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 5 Jul 2019 09:06:44 +0100, wrote:

As part of the re-furb we're starting to think about how to escape a
fire if the staircase is impassable. We plan to stay here until age and
decrepitude means we have to move, so the system needs to be usable by a
wide age range.

Escape from 1st floor only or higher?
1st floor, but the ceilings are higher than a modern house.

One assumes you have working and correctly placed smoke alarms and a
telephone upstairs. How long will it take the fire and rescue service
to get to you? How close are your neighbours, have you their phone
numbers?
I guess it would take 30+ minutes for the fire brigade to get here; no
neighbours near enough to help.

As you say rope (wire) ladders are awkward things even for the agile.


Thinking that as a closed domestic door will keep fire at bay for
quite a number of minutes and block the jam and floor gap with
whatever cloth is available (wet if possible) to keep the smoke and
fumes out (the real killers). Calling 999 and sitting tight maybe the
better bet if they'll be with you in less than 10 minutes.

No good here, the local, retained, fire and rescue pump would take
about fifteen minutes to arrive, by which time the place will be
"well alight". If a house catches fire outside of the town around
here the chances are it'll burn down. The next nearest pumps are 1/2
to 3/4 of a hour away.

If only from the first floor climb out of the window, lower yourself
full stretch of your arms, give a little push away from the wall and
drop. Feet to ground won't be much over 6', bend the knees roll out
of the fall, should getaway with just bruises. Plan ahead have a
border rather than something hard below escape windows.
This has to work for family and friends, and when we're older - I don't
think "dangle and drop" is an option.

Call the neighbours, get them to come and "catch" you from the arms
stretched position.

Keep a roll of gaffer tape in your escape room to save having to
stuff wet towels or what ever around the door. But be aware that
it'll burn through with hot gases quicker than a wet towel...

Fit a proper 30 min fire door and frame with bush and intumastic
seals to your escape room.
Perhaps, if I was planning to replace doors and linings (but I'm not)

On 05/07/2019 10:57, Robin wrote:
On 05/07/2019 09:06, wrote:
As part of the re-furb we're starting to think about how to escape a
fire if the staircase is impassable. We plan to stay here until age
and decrepitude means we have to move, so the system needs to be
usable by a wide age range. There seem to be escape ladders or rope
descenders (is there anything else, apart from greasy poles?) but I
can't imagine using a rope ladder when old, and a rope descender
either needs a return mechanism or a descender and harness for each
person.

What does the team think? Has anyone here been through the same
process and come up with a smart solution?

Is there any special reason you expect the stairs to become impassable
quickly - eg are they open plan to the kitchen and living areas?
No, it's a direction from SWMBO ;-)

If not, FWLIW my conclusion was that if I reach the point where
interlinked smoke alarms don't give me enough time to get down the
stairs and out then it's time to start sleeping downstairs.

On Fri, 5 Jul 2019 19:42:25 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH senile Ozzie troll's latest troll****

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

wrote:
As part of the re-furb we're starting to think about how to escape a
fire if the staircase is impassable. We plan to stay here until age
and decrepitude means we have to move, so the system needs to be
usable by a wide age range. There seem to be escape ladders or rope
descenders (is there anything else, apart from greasy poles?) but I
can't imagine using a rope ladder when old, and a rope descender
either needs a return mechanism or a descender and harness for each
person.
What does the team think? Has anyone here been through the same
process and come up with a smart solution?

Contact your local fire and rescue and ask them to pop round and offer
advice. They will do and I think it is free.

On 05/07/2019 11:14, Michael Chare wrote:
On 05/07/2019 10:10, wrote:
On Friday, 5 July 2019 09:06:48 UTC+1, Â* wrote:
As part of the re-furb we're starting to think about how to escape a
fire if the staircase is impassable.

Smoke alarms should get you out before that stage, but you could also
consider sprinklers over the escape route.

Has anyone here been through the same process
and come up with a smart solution?

https://www.safelincs.co.uk/external-fire-escapes/

Fixed and rigid ladders, so not dangly like rope/chain ladders. Also
you step out sideways from the window rather than clambering over the
sill.

Owain


Fire alarms to make sure you are awake.

Depending on the layout, a hose pipe in the bathroom suitably attached
That's an interesting idea - it would be quite easy to keep a length of
flexible pipe in a cupboard.
could be helpful, as could some fire resistant clothing.

"Mr Pounder Esquire" wrote in message
...
wrote:
As part of the re-furb we're starting to think about how to escape a
fire if the staircase is impassable. We plan to stay here until age
and decrepitude means we have to move, so the system needs to be
usable by a wide age range. There seem to be escape ladders or rope
descenders (is there anything else, apart from greasy poles?) but I
can't imagine using a rope ladder when old, and a rope descender
either needs a return mechanism or a descender and harness for each
person.
What does the team think? Has anyone here been through the same
process and come up with a smart solution?

Contact your local fire and rescue and ask them to pop round and offer
advice. They will do and I think it is free.

hope it is not a dodgy three story conversion that they will condem .......

On 05/07/2019 10:57, Robin wrote:
On 05/07/2019 09:06, wrote:
As part of the re-furb we're starting to think about how to escape a
fire if the staircase is impassable. We plan to stay here until age
and decrepitude means we have to move, so the system needs to be
usable by a wide age range. There seem to be escape ladders or rope
descenders (is there anything else, apart from greasy poles?) but I
can't imagine using a rope ladder when old, and a rope descender
either needs a return mechanism or a descender and harness for each
person.

What does the team think? Has anyone here been through the same
process and come up with a smart solution?

Is there any special reason you expect the stairs to become impassable
quickly - eg are they open plan to the kitchen and living areas?

If not, FWLIW my conclusion was that if I reach the point where
interlinked smoke alarms don't give me enough time to get down the
stairs and out then it's time to start sleeping downstairs.


Agreed, IMHO good smoke detectors should give very early warning. Also,
you just get up and go. No need to worry about deployment of something
potentially awkward, unless you are in an ideal situation with a crash
bar door straight on to a metal fire escape.

On 05/07/2019 09:06, wrote:
As part of the re-furb we're starting to think about how to escape a
fire if the staircase is impassable. We plan to stay here until age and
decrepitude means we have to move, so the system needs to be usable by a
wide age range. There seem to be escape ladders or rope descenders (is
there anything else, apart from greasy poles?) but I can't imagine using
a rope ladder when old, and a rope descender either needs a return
mechanism or a descender and harness for each person.

What does the team think? Has anyone here been through the same process
and come up with a smart solution?


AS advertised on Farcebook recently

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=228803037996600

Personally I cannot see too many problems except...

The demo assumes no up-draft from a fire - nor as a result of prevailing
winds hitting the building.

You are parachuted through a cladding fire - I hope all components are
fire proof.

It may work for one individual but for many using similar at the same time?

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

was thinking very hard :
As part of the re-furb we're starting to think about how to escape a fire if
the staircase is impassable. We plan to stay here until age and decrepitude
means we have to move, so the system needs to be usable by a wide age range.
There seem to be escape ladders or rope descenders (is there anything else,
apart from greasy poles?) but I can't imagine using a rope ladder when old,
and a rope descender either needs a return mechanism or a descender and
harness for each person.

A self closing fire door or doors, on bedrooms, seem the only sensible
answer, combined with a linked fire alarm system. Then await the fire
brigades arrival for rescue.

I have double plaster boarded ceilings to ground floor, linked fire
alarms and one (unused) bedroom at the rear with a fire door.

On 05/07/2019 11:58, alan_m wrote:
On 05/07/2019 09:06, wrote:
As part of the re-furb we're starting to think about how to escape a
fire if the staircase is impassable. We plan to stay here until age
and decrepitude means we have to move, so the system needs to be
usable by a wide age range. There seem to be escape ladders or rope
descenders (is there anything else, apart from greasy poles?) but I
can't imagine using a rope ladder when old, and a rope descender
either needs a return mechanism or a descender and harness for each
person.

What does the team think? Has anyone here been through the same
process and come up with a smart solution?


AS advertised on Farcebook recently

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=228803037996600

Personally I cannot see too many problems except...

The demo assumes no up-draft from a fire - nor as a result of prevailing
winds hitting the building.

You are parachuted through a cladding fire - I hope all components are
fire proof.

It may work for one individual but for many using similar at the same time?

Hmmm, that's almost base jumping. It might be OK from a tall building
but not from the 1st floor. If I was young again then kite surfing and
base jumping would be on the "must do" list - I'm not going to be young
again so I'm safe saying that ;-)

Here's a base jump from Angel falls, skip to the action at 50 seconds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1tBfSsbmPI

wrote :
Smoke alarms should get you out before that stage, but you could also
consider sprinklers over the escape route.

The bathroom is my planned escape route, if the stairs cannot be used.
It has a large flat roof outside the window, a five foot drop, at the
back of the house.

On 05/07/2019 09:06, wrote:
As part of the re-furb we're starting to think about how to escape a
fire if the staircase is impassable. We plan to stay here until age and
decrepitude means we have to move, so the system needs to be usable by a
wide age range. There seem to be escape ladders or rope descenders (is
there anything else, apart from greasy poles?) but I can't imagine using
a rope ladder when old, and a rope descender either needs a return
mechanism or a descender and harness for each person.

What does the team think? Has anyone here been through the same process
and come up with a smart solution?

Bungalow ?.

On 05/07/2019 14:09, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
wrote :
Smoke alarms should get you out before that stage, but you could also
consider sprinklers over the escape route.

The bathroom is my planned escape route, if the stairs cannot be used.
It has a large flat roof outside the window, a five foot drop, at the
back of the house.

But if the sink and other stuff is against the window then you
need to be quite agile to get out through the window, so maybe
keep a small set of kitchen steps in the bathroom.

On 05/07/2019 14:12, Andrew wrote:
On 05/07/2019 09:06, wrote:
As part of the re-furb we're starting to think about how to escape a
fire if the staircase is impassable. We plan to stay here until age
and decrepitude means we have to move, so the system needs to be
usable by a wide age range. There seem to be escape ladders or rope
descenders (is there anything else, apart from greasy poles?) but I
can't imagine using a rope ladder when old, and a rope descender
either needs a return mechanism or a descender and harness for each
person.

What does the team think? Has anyone here been through the same
process and come up with a smart solution?

Bungalow ?.

Helter skelter?



--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

On 05/07/2019 12:26, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
was thinking very hard :
As part of the re-furb we're starting to think about how to escape a
fire if the staircase is impassable. We plan to stay here until age
and decrepitude means we have to move, so the system needs to be
usable by a wide age range. There seem to be escape ladders or rope
descenders (is there anything else, apart from greasy poles?) but I
can't imagine using a rope ladder when old, and a rope descender
either needs a return mechanism or a descender and harness for each
person.

A self closing fire door or doors, on bedrooms, seem the only sensible
answer, combined with a linked fire alarm system. Then await the fire
brigades arrival for rescue.

I have double plaster boarded ceilings to ground floor, linked fire
alarms and one (unused) bedroom at the rear with a fire door.

It's the door at the bottom of the stairs that needs to be a fire
door, and closed when you go to bed, so you have a safe exit route
down to your front door.

If that is not possible then the kitchen needs to be a fire
compartment in its own right so it can be isolated easily.

And don't forget fire and smoke hoods on downlighters else
your double-layer ceilings are pointless.

on 05/07/2019, Andrew supposed :
But if the sink and other stuff is against the window then you
need to be quite agile to get out through the window, so maybe
keep a small set of kitchen steps in the bathroom.

No need at the moment, I can step on the bath, then through the window.
The wash basin is in front of the window though.

presented the following explanation :
Fixed and rigid ladders, so not dangly like rope/chain ladders. Also you step
out sideways from the window rather than clambering over the sill.

Such easy access to get out, also makes it easy for burglars to get in.

wrote:
On 05/07/2019 10:10, wrote:
On Friday, 5 July 2019 09:06:48 UTC+1, wrote:
As part of the re-furb we're starting to think about how to escape a
fire if the staircase is impassable.

Smoke alarms should get you out before that stage, but you could also
consider sprinklers over the escape route.
Smoke alarms are fitted but it's not big enough to justify sprinklers.

Has anyone here been through the same process
and come up with a smart solution?

https://www.safelincs.co.uk/external-fire-escapes/

Fixed and rigid ladders, so not dangly like rope/chain ladders. Also you
step out sideways from the window rather than clambering over the sill.
Thanks, I hadn't seen those and they look interesting.

Owain




Any solution apart from an easy to use fire escape such as an external
stairway from a very easy and quick to open window or door is likely to
take longer to use rather than quick evacuation when alerted by a smoke
alarm
assuming you are living in a relatively normal domestic dwelling and not
the sole residents of a decaying Manor House or hotel.
Most people who die in domestic fires do so from the smoke rather than heat
and its effects.You should be familiar with the layout of your home,
practise getting from the various rooms to outside in the dark and be able
to use find and use any keys that you may secure your external locks with
..
The time taken to use some unusual solution like a hose kept in the
bathroom by the time you have got it out of the cupboard turned on the
supply would be longer than just legging it. Remember that clearer air is
often available nearer the floor if things have got really bad .
A sensibly placed water extinguisher if it can be grabbed while passing
may help and be easier to activate than a hose providing you know how to
use it ,but use it to aid your evacuation not to fight the fire .
That is the job of the fire brigade who have the means to do it , of course
if you are some distance from a manned station they may not be in time but
the first priority is to get yourselves out, if then if you want to attempt
to fight the fire then a proper powerful hose reel mounted outside would
help in that ,again if you feel you have the knowledge to risk it, remember
things like mixing water and electricity can cause their own dangers .
Probably not worth risk you live in suburbia but possibly worth doing have
if you live in a remote cottage.

It is a pity that not many people get the chance to do even a basic fire
fighting course,
Ive done a couple aimed at marine situations where as no fire brigade is
usually close at all you have to deal with it,that doesnt apply to most
house fires but how to use an extinguisher and what type and when should be
taught in schools as a life skill.

GH

Dave Liquorice presented the following explanation :
Thinking that as a closed domestic door will keep fire at bay for
quite a number of minutes and block the jam and floor gap with
whatever cloth is available (wet if possible) to keep the smoke and
fumes out (the real killers). Calling 999 and sitting tight maybe the
better bet if they'll be with you in less than 10 minutes.

Back in the day when I still lived with my parents, at around 13 with a
latch key - I arrived home to find smoke billowing up just inside the
front door. A gas pipe had developed a pin hole, leaked and something
had ignited it. I was able to extinguish it by throwing water at the
burning wood work and turn the gas off.

As a result of that experience, I now have a couple of outside garden
taps fitted, with ready connected hose pipes, one at the back, one at
the side. The local village full time fire station is 1/2 mile away, so
just a few minutes.

On Friday, 5 July 2019 14:09:53 UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The bathroom is my planned escape route, if the stairs cannot be used.
It has a large flat roof outside the window,


The kitchen roof by any chance? Will that maintain structural integrity during a fire that blocks the stairs?

Owain

On Friday, 5 July 2019 15:22:28 UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Fixed and rigid ladders, so not dangly like rope/chain ladders. Also you step
out sideways from the window rather than clambering over the sill.
Such easy access to get out, also makes it easy for burglars to get in.

They're secured by a locking pin at the top, so Mr Tealeaf would need a ladder anyway (or maybe a long pole with a hook on the end) to drop it.

Should be fairly easy to put a magnet on the dropping bit to activate an alarm when the ladder is released.

Owain

After serious thinking wrote :
No, it's a direction from SWMBO ;-)

Then well done her.

formulated the question :
The kitchen roof by any chance? Will that maintain structural integrity
during a fire that blocks the stairs?

No, the utility room which has a thick concrete slab roof.

In article , Marland
wrote:
wrote:
On 05/07/2019 10:10, wrote:
On Friday, 5 July 2019 09:06:48 UTC+1, wrote:
As part of the re-furb we're starting to think about how to escape a
fire if the staircase is impassable.

Smoke alarms should get you out before that stage, but you could also
consider sprinklers over the escape route.
Smoke alarms are fitted but it's not big enough to justify sprinklers.

Has anyone here been through the same process and come up with a
smart solution?

https://www.safelincs.co.uk/external-fire-escapes/

Fixed and rigid ladders, so not dangly like rope/chain ladders. Also
you step out sideways from the window rather than clambering over the
sill.
Thanks, I hadn't seen those and they look interesting.

Owain




Any solution apart from an easy to use fire escape such as an external
stairway from a very easy and quick to open window or door is likely to
take longer to use rather than quick evacuation when alerted by a smoke
alarm assuming you are living in a relatively normal domestic dwelling
and not the sole residents of a decaying Manor House or hotel. Most
people who die in domestic fires do so from the smoke rather than heat
and its effects.You should be familiar with the layout of your home,
practise getting from the various rooms to outside in the dark and be
able to use find and use any keys that you may secure your external
locks with . The time taken to use some unusual solution like a hose kept
in the bathroom by the time you have got it out of the cupboard turned on
the supply would be longer than just legging it. Remember that clearer
air is often available nearer the floor if things have got really bad .
A sensibly placed water extinguisher if it can be grabbed while passing
may help and be easier to activate than a hose providing you know how to
use it ,but use it to aid your evacuation not to fight the fire . That is
the job of the fire brigade who have the means to do it , of course if
you are some distance from a manned station they may not be in time but
the first priority is to get yourselves out, if then if you want to
attempt to fight the fire then a proper powerful hose reel mounted
outside would help in that ,again if you feel you have the knowledge to
risk it, remember things like mixing water and electricity can cause
their own dangers . Probably not worth risk you live in suburbia but
possibly worth doing have if you live in a remote cottage.

It is a pity that not many people get the chance to do even a basic fire
fighting course, I‘ve done a couple aimed at marine situations where as
no fire brigade is usually close at all you have to deal with it,that
doesn‘t apply to most house fires but how to use an extinguisher and what
type and when should be taught in schools as a life skill.


I went on a couple of courses at work and once had the 'great fun' of
setting off an extinguisher (CO2) in anger. But, the basic safety advice
is "Get out" and leave it to the professionals to deal with.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

on 05/07/2019, supposed :
On Friday, 5 July 2019 15:22:28 UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Fixed and rigid ladders, so not dangly like rope/chain ladders. Also you
step out sideways from the window rather than clambering over the sill.
Such easy access to get out, also makes it easy for burglars to get in.

They're secured by a locking pin at the top, so Mr Tealeaf would need a
ladder anyway (or maybe a long pole with a hook on the end) to drop it.

Should be fairly easy to put a magnet on the dropping bit to activate an
alarm when the ladder is released.

OK, sounds good..

Andrew formulated the question :
It's the door at the bottom of the stairs that needs to be a fire
door, and closed when you go to bed, so you have a safe exit route
down to your front door.

I don't have a door at the bottom, the hall/ stair is open, connecting
living room and kitchens with their own doors.

On 05/07/2019 16:40, charles wrote:
In article , Marland
wrote:
wrote:
On 05/07/2019 10:10, wrote:
On Friday, 5 July 2019 09:06:48 UTC+1, wrote:
As part of the re-furb we're starting to think about how to escape a
fire if the staircase is impassable.

Smoke alarms should get you out before that stage, but you could also
consider sprinklers over the escape route.
Smoke alarms are fitted but it's not big enough to justify sprinklers.

Has anyone here been through the same process and come up with a
smart solution?

https://www.safelincs.co.uk/external-fire-escapes/

Fixed and rigid ladders, so not dangly like rope/chain ladders. Also
you step out sideways from the window rather than clambering over the
sill.
Thanks, I hadn't seen those and they look interesting.

Owain




Any solution apart from an easy to use fire escape such as an external
stairway from a very easy and quick to open window or door is likely to
take longer to use rather than quick evacuation when alerted by a smoke
alarm assuming you are living in a relatively normal domestic dwelling
and not the sole residents of a decaying Manor House or hotel. Most
people who die in domestic fires do so from the smoke rather than heat
and its effects.You should be familiar with the layout of your home,
practise getting from the various rooms to outside in the dark and be
able to use find and use any keys that you may secure your external
locks with . The time taken to use some unusual solution like a hose kept
in the bathroom by the time you have got it out of the cupboard turned on
the supply would be longer than just legging it. Remember that clearer
air is often available nearer the floor if things have got really bad .
A sensibly placed water extinguisher if it can be grabbed while passing
may help and be easier to activate than a hose providing you know how to
use it ,but use it to aid your evacuation not to fight the fire . That is
the job of the fire brigade who have the means to do it , of course if
you are some distance from a manned station they may not be in time but
the first priority is to get yourselves out, if then if you want to
attempt to fight the fire then a proper powerful hose reel mounted
outside would help in that ,again if you feel you have the knowledge to
risk it, remember things like mixing water and electricity can cause
their own dangers . Probably not worth risk you live in suburbia but
possibly worth doing have if you live in a remote cottage.

It is a pity that not many people get the chance to do even a basic fire
fighting course, I€˜ve done a couple aimed at marine situations where as
no fire brigade is usually close at all you have to deal with it,that
doesn€˜t apply to most house fires but how to use an extinguisher and what
type and when should be taught in schools as a life skill.


I went on a couple of courses at work and once had the 'great fun' of
setting off an extinguisher (CO2) in anger. But, the basic safety advice
is "Get out" and leave it to the professionals to deal with.

I've been on company fire training courses. Interestingly they were
suspended for a while when one of my colleagues set off a CO2
extinguisher that turned out to have a leak from the pipe that joined
the horn and he suffered a cold-burn.

SteveW

On Fri, 5 Jul 2019 09:06:44 +0100, wrote:

As part of the re-furb we're starting to think about how to escape a
fire if the staircase is impassable. We plan to stay here until age and
decrepitude means we have to move, so the system needs to be usable by a
wide age range. There seem to be escape ladders or rope descenders (is
there anything else, apart from greasy poles?) but I can't imagine using
a rope ladder when old, and a rope descender either needs a return
mechanism or a descender and harness for each person.

What does the team think? Has anyone here been through the same process
and come up with a smart solution?

The aim is to get out (and stay out). Forget ropes. ladders
parachutes and rocket packs etc. The safest way to get out is by a
using a familiar direct obstacle free and illuminated route.

As others have said the immediate danger is fumes, not flames.

Fit linked smoke alarms (so if one goes off they all do), temperature
triggered in the kitchen, optical in the living room and hall and (the
most important one) on the ceiling of the first floor above the
stairs.

These will trigger before a fire has a chance to develop and give you
several minutes at least to get out.

Don't use high power devices like dishwashers, tumble dryers or
washing machines overnight. If any occupants smoke stop them.

For the front and back doors make sure you can open them from inside
without having to use a key. If you are a bit paranoid fit a very low
power LED bulb (5W is more than enough) in a light fitting and turn
it on at night so that you always have light at the foot of the
stairs.

Make sure you have a simple hard wired telephone extension (not one
that requires power) in the hall by the front door. Put it on a long
enough lead so you can use it from the door position or just outside.
Do not rely on a DECT (cordless) phone as it stops working if power
fails.

Have a drill so each night you check fires are off in the lounge,
cooker and hob are off, close the kitchen, dining room and lounge
doors so no downstairs room has open access to the hall and stairs.
Switch on the hall light.

If a smoke alarm sounds, get out and call the fire service from the
hall extension by the front door if safe to do so. (a wired phone is
always better than a mobile as it shows your location to the fire
service operator). Don't try to go back in.

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...

I've been on company fire training courses. Interestingly they were
suspended for a while when one of my colleagues set off a CO2 extinguisher
that turned out to have a leak from the pipe that joined the horn and he
suffered a cold-burn.

I remember being told that we mustn't touch the horn itself, only the handle
that's attached to it, because of the risk of cold burns.

The most memorable thing I remember was the demonstration of why you
shouldn't pour water on a burning-liquid (petrol or chip pan) fire. The
demonstrator set up two wide, shallow trays. One was filled with petrol, the
other with diesel. The petrol ignited as soon as a flame (on a long pole!)
was brought near the vapour. The diesel could not be ignited, and put out
the flame if it was touched onto the surface.

When the petrol fire was burning away nicely, the demonstrator poured a few
millilitres of water (again, on a long pole) onto the fire and the whole
thing exploded and shot burning petrol over a wide area. He then tried with
a CO2 extinguisher - that blew the petrol out of the tray onto the grass,
but the tray remained alight because the hot combustion gases heated the CO2
so it didn't lay as a blanket over the fuel. Foam or dry powder for liquid
fuel fires, IIRC.

I've never had to use the approved method of holding a fire blanket, but I
can still remember it: hold the blanket so the top edge faces towards you,
curled round so it's covering your fists which are facing palm towards you,
and lay the blanket gently *from front to back* (never the other way round)
over the chip pan until it covers the pan, when the flames will very quickly
go out because the fire is starved of oxygen. Leave the pan where it is
until the fire brigade arrive: don't move it *even after the flames have
gone out*. Obviously don't try to move it while it's on fire.

On 05/07/2019 16:43, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Andrew formulated the question :
It's the door at the bottom of the stairs that needs to be a fire
door, and closed when you go to bed, so you have a safe exit route
down to your front door.

I don't have a door at the bottom, the hall/ stair is open, connecting
living room and kitchens with their own doors.

That would worry me.

Can you still completely shut off the kitchen from the rest of
the house ?. If so I would make an effort to keep that door
shut at night.

A smoke detector at the bottom of the stairs (plus elsewhere)
will warn you the moment any smoke starts to come up the stairs,
but tbh, the best escape route is down an enclosed staircase
and straight out of the front door, especially when you are
no longer 'agile'.

Commercial and other public buildings sometimes have fire
curtains, like non-flammable roller blinds that drop down
to stop smoke and hot gases from travelling up stairwells
and the like, where physical fire doors are not possible.

After serious thinking Andrew wrote :
That would worry me.

Can you still completely shut off the kitchen from the rest of
the house ?. If so I would make an effort to keep that door
shut at night.

I could close the kitchen door, but I don't because I have two dogs who
may need access to their water in the kitchen. I have smoke detectors
in the hall, landing and the enclosed loft - all linked, so if one is
triggered, they all sound.

A smoke detector at the bottom of the stairs (plus elsewhere)
will warn you the moment any smoke starts to come up the stairs,
but tbh, the best escape route is down an enclosed staircase
and straight out of the front door, especially when you are
no longer 'agile'.

I am still pretty agile.

On Friday, 5 July 2019 09:06:48 UTC+1, wrote:
As part of the re-furb we're starting to think about how to escape a
fire if the staircase is impassable. We plan to stay here until age and
decrepitude means we have to move, so the system needs to be usable by a
wide age range. There seem to be escape ladders or rope descenders (is
there anything else, apart from greasy poles?) but I can't imagine using
a rope ladder when old, and a rope descender either needs a return
mechanism or a descender and harness for each person.

What does the team think? Has anyone here been through the same process
and come up with a smart solution?

Think about smoke hoods.

https://firemask.co.uk/shop/?gclid=C...hoCnRcQAvD_BwE

On Friday, 5 July 2019 09:06:48 UTC+1, wrote:
As part of the re-furb we're starting to think about how to escape a
fire if the staircase is impassable. We plan to stay here until age and
decrepitude means we have to move, so the system needs to be usable by a
wide age range. There seem to be escape ladders or rope descenders (is
there anything else, apart from greasy poles?) but I can't imagine using
a rope ladder when old, and a rope descender either needs a return
mechanism or a descender and harness for each person.

What does the team think? Has anyone here been through the same process
and come up with a smart solution?

Battery operated automatic emergency lights in case of power failure leaving you in the dark