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Old August 2nd 20, 10:07 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default External handrail fixing

We have three steps up to our front door. These are 8" high (vertical
brick) and can be awkward for those who are less mobile. I have been
thinking of putting in a handrail like that at
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wrought-Iron-Plain-Handrail-Posts/dp/B072SWRPY9/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8&th=1.


However, as can be seen at the photo at https://ibb.co/Yt4q3Pz, the
fixing for the base of the handrail top post will be close to the edge
of the brick. The door opening is more-or-less along where the brick and
tile meet (where the weather deflector shows), so I would not want the
handrail inside that. I am concerned that even if it survives drilling,
trying to use a plug or rawlplug could result in the top edge of the
brick splitting away when the screw is tightened. Maybe some sort of
resin fixing such as
https://www.screwfix.com/p/rawlplug-r-kem11-175-kit-styrene-free-polyester-resin-175ml/4100r
would be less likely to damage the brick. I do not want to drill into
the tile as if it cracks I have no replacement. The door surround is
metal-framed PVC, and I doubt it has reliable strength to take a wall
fixing for a handrail.

Any comments?

--

Jeff

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Old August 2nd 20, 10:30 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default External handrail fixing

Concrete screws despite their name will fix to brick as well and can be driven in close to the edge. I have a wooden post fixed into one of those metapost brackets which in turn is fixed to a paving slab 50mm thick two of the screws are about 25mm from the edge and have not caused any breakaway even with the post supporting a handrail.

Richard
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Old August 2nd 20, 10:44 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default External handrail fixing

In message , Jeff Layman
writes
We have three steps up to our front door. These are 8" high (vertical
brick) and can be awkward for those who are less mobile. I have been
thinking of putting in a handrail like that at
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wrought-Iro...s/dp/B072SWRPY
9/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8&th=1.

However, as can be seen at the photo at https://ibb.co/Yt4q3Pz, the
fixing for the base of the handrail top post will be close to the edge
of the brick. The door opening is more-or-less along where the brick
and tile meet (where the weather deflector shows), so I would not want
the handrail inside that. I am concerned that even if it survives
drilling, trying to use a plug or rawlplug could result in the top edge
of the brick splitting away when the screw is tightened. Maybe some
sort of resin fixing such as
https://www.screwfix.com/p/rawlplug-...ne-free-polyes
ter-resin-175ml/4100r would be less likely to damage the brick. I do
not want to drill into the tile as if it cracks I have no replacement.
The door surround is metal-framed PVC, and I doubt it has reliable
strength to take a wall fixing for a handrail.

Any comments?


Depends a lot on the brick:-) Yours look to be solid clay rather than
full of holes. Assuming the rail is fitted coming up from the right in
your photo, you could fit an additional spacer as high up the lower
upright as you can and screw through that to the wall?

I don't see a problem in doing the same to the metal framed PVC.


--
Tim Lamb
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Old August 2nd 20, 11:18 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default External handrail fixing

On Sunday, 2 August 2020 10:07:22 UTC+1, Jeff Layman wrote:
We have three steps up to our front door. These are 8" high (vertical
brick) and can be awkward for those who are less mobile. I have been
thinking of putting in a handrail


If you are uncertain the brick will take the full tug load of an adult, I would put in double right-angle 'Z' brackets at the base of the handrail so you can drill through into both the vertical long side of the brick, and the horizontal surface of the step below / to the side. Then weld or bolt the upright to the brackets.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/4/45/Handrail.jpg

Owain
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Old August 2nd 20, 11:50 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default External handrail fixing

On 02/08/2020 11:18, wrote:
On Sunday, 2 August 2020 10:07:22 UTC+1, Jeff Layman wrote:
We have three steps up to our front door. These are 8" high (vertical
brick) and can be awkward for those who are less mobile. I have been
thinking of putting in a handrail


If you are uncertain the brick will take the full tug load of an adult, I would put in double right-angle 'Z' brackets at the base of the handrail so you can drill through into both the vertical long side of the brick, and the horizontal surface of the step below / to the side. Then weld or bolt the upright to the brackets.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/4/45/Handrail.jpg

Owain

Agreed, though to add to an earlier post the "Multi Monti" type screws
(which need an accurate hole) are very secure, and will work close to
the edge of any reasonably good brick, especially with a deep hole. The
concrete screws which look more like wood screws should not be used near
edges.


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Old August 2nd 20, 12:12 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default External handrail fixing

On Sun, 2 Aug 2020 10:07:20 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote:

We have three steps up to our front door. These are 8" high (vertical
brick) and can be awkward for those who are less mobile. I have been
thinking of putting in a handrail like that at
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wrought-Iro.../dp/B072SWRPY9


How much!

However, as can be seen at the photo at https://ibb.co/Yt4q3Pz, the
fixing for the base of the handrail top post will be close to the edge
of the brick.


And there isn't a great deal holding those vertical bricks in place.
I'm assuming that the hand rail will be perpendicular to the wall, so
someone leaning heavly on the rail will be effectively levering the
brick out of its slot. Those bases look horribly small as well with a
1.2 m lever attached. Personally I'd look for bases that would allow
fixing to the centerish of two bricks and have some diagonal bracing
to the rail. I do have tendancy to over engineer things...

I do not want to drill into the tile as if it cracks I have no
replacement.


Take it steady with a proper tile drill (no hammer action!) and it
shouldn't be a problem. Clearance hole for the fixing. Do you know
what's underneath the tiles? Hopefully it's rubble infilled with
concrete to a solid lump. That would provide a much firmer fixing
than either of the bricks.

The door surround is metal-framed PVC, and I doubt it has reliable
strength to take a wall fixing for a handrail.


I was going to suggest something like:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B086DS1X8F

But you haven't a real wall to fix it to.

--
Cheers
Dave.



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Old August 2nd 20, 12:53 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default External handrail fixing

On 02/08/2020 11:18, wrote:
On Sunday, 2 August 2020 10:07:22 UTC+1, Jeff Layman wrote:
We have three steps up to our front door. These are 8" high (vertical
brick) and can be awkward for those who are less mobile. I have been
thinking of putting in a handrail


If you are uncertain the brick will take the full tug load of an adult, I would put in double right-angle 'Z' brackets at the base of the handrail so you can drill through into both the vertical long side of the brick, and the horizontal surface of the step below / to the side. Then weld or bolt the upright to the brackets.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/4/45/Handrail.jpg

Or working with that theme, stick the rail into the lower step, but hard
against the top step, then use a U bolt or similar anchor to fix the
post to the side of the top step.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
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Old August 2nd 20, 01:09 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default External handrail fixing

On 02/08/2020 12:12, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 2 Aug 2020 10:07:20 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote:

We have three steps up to our front door. These are 8" high (vertical
brick) and can be awkward for those who are less mobile. I have been
thinking of putting in a handrail like that at
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wrought-Iro.../dp/B072SWRPY9


How much!

However, as can be seen at the photo at https://ibb.co/Yt4q3Pz, the
fixing for the base of the handrail top post will be close to the edge
of the brick.


And there isn't a great deal holding those vertical bricks in place.
I'm assuming that the hand rail will be perpendicular to the wall, so
someone leaning heavly on the rail will be effectively levering the
brick out of its slot. Those bases look horribly small as well with a
1.2 m lever attached. Personally I'd look for bases that would allow
fixing to the centerish of two bricks and have some diagonal bracing
to the rail. I do have tendancy to over engineer things...

I do not want to drill into the tile as if it cracks I have no
replacement.


Take it steady with a proper tile drill (no hammer action!) and it
shouldn't be a problem. Clearance hole for the fixing. Do you know
what's underneath the tiles? Hopefully it's rubble infilled with
concrete to a solid lump. That would provide a much firmer fixing
than either of the bricks.


Those look a bit like quarry tiles, in which case they may be a bugger
to drill using an ordinary carbide bit.


The door surround is metal-framed PVC, and I doubt it has reliable
strength to take a wall fixing for a handrail.


I was going to suggest something like:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B086DS1X8F

But you haven't a real wall to fix it to.


We could do with a wider view of the layout, there might be other ways
to create a suitable handrail supported away from those steps (or at any
rate not imposing significant moments or sideways loads on them if
called on to support a tripping body).
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Old August 2nd 20, 01:20 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default External handrail fixing

On Sun, 2 Aug 2020 13:09:13 +0100, newshound wrote:

I do not want to drill into the tile as if it cracks I have no
replacement.


Take it steady with a proper tile drill (no hammer action!) and it
shouldn't be a problem. ks.


Those look a bit like quarry tiles, in which case they may be a bugger
to drill using an ordinary carbide bit.


Probably are but still drillable provided you take it easy and use
water as a lubricant/coolant if required.

We could do with a wider view of the layout, there might be other ways
to create a suitable handrail supported away from those steps


Agreed we only see two of the three steps mentioned.

--
Cheers
Dave.



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Old August 2nd 20, 02:23 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default External handrail fixing

On 02/08/2020 13:09, newshound wrote:
On 02/08/2020 12:12, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 2 Aug 2020 10:07:20 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote:

We have three steps up to our front door. These are 8" high (vertical
brick) and can be awkward for those who are less mobile. I have been
thinking of putting in a handrail like that at
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wrought-Iro.../dp/B072SWRPY9


How much!

However, as can be seen at the photo at https://ibb.co/Yt4q3Pz, the
fixing for the base of the handrail top post will be close to the edge
of the brick.


And there isn't a great deal holding those vertical bricks in place.
I'm assuming that the hand rail will be perpendicular to the wall, so
someone leaning heavly on the rail will be effectively levering the
brick out of its slot. Those bases look horribly small as well with a
1.2 m lever attached. Personally I'd look for bases that would allow
fixing to the centerish of two bricks and have some diagonal bracing
to the rail. I do have tendancy to over engineer things...

I do not want to drill into the tile as if it cracks I have no
replacement.


Take it steady with a proper tile drill (no hammer action!) and it
shouldn't be a problem. Clearance hole for the fixing. Do you know
what's underneath the tiles? Hopefully it's rubble infilled with
concrete to a solid lump. That would provide a much firmer fixing
than either of the bricks.


Those look a bit like quarry tiles, in which case they may be a bugger
to drill using an ordinary carbide bit.


The door surround is metal-framed PVC, and I doubt it has reliable
strength to take a wall fixing for a handrail.


I was going to suggest something like:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B086DS1X8F

But you haven't a real wall to fix it to.


We could do with a wider view of the layout, there might be other ways
to create a suitable handrail supported away from those steps (or at any
rate not imposing significant moments or sideways loads on them if
called on to support a tripping body).


Your wish is my command...
https://ibb.co/25k41g3

Sorry about the plants in the way!

The concrete at the base of the steps is strong and thick, so the bottom
post would be very stable when screwed to it. The first step "plinth" is
3750 x 930 mm (there is a wall on the left side that can't be seen in
the photo). The next step is 1430 x 680, and the top step is 910 x 42.

Many thanks for all the replies. I'd forgotten about concrete screws,
and I hadn't taken into account that vertical brick might move out with
a strong sideways moment on it. A "Z" bracket would help, but that would
need drilling into the tile below, and as I've said I'm not keen on
that. I'm now wondering if it might be best to have the top post fixed
to the house wall where the door and RH panel meet. That would almost
certainly mean a bespoke handrail construction and even the "ready to
use" ones aren't exactly cheap! However, it's not the sort of thing
where an "it'll do..." attitude should apply.

--

Jeff


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