I've got an 8ft wide room that I wish to fit with a false ceiling.

2x3" battens (maybe an overkill, but they are easy to source) then
plasterboard.

How far apart should they be spaced?

The existing joists, which I won't be relying upon at all, are 15"
apart.
--
Roland Perry

On 26/04/2020 11:25, Roland Perry wrote:
I've got an 8ft wide room that I wish to fit with a false ceiling.

2x3" battens (maybe an overkill, but they are easy to source) then
plasterboard.

How far apart should they be spaced?

The existing joists, which I won't be relying upon at all, are 15" apart.
Mr Google has loads of info from Building Regs, here's an example picked
at random:
https://www.fdean.gov.uk/media/3225/...march-2016.pdf
- suggests 400 centres, and that 2x3 is maybe slightly on the skimpy
side for 8ft.

wrote in message
...
On 26/04/2020 11:25, Roland Perry wrote:
I've got an 8ft wide room that I wish to fit with a false ceiling.

2x3" battens (maybe an overkill, but they are easy to source) then
plasterboard.

How far apart should they be spaced?

The existing joists, which I won't be relying upon at all, are 15" apart.
Mr Google has loads of info from Building Regs, here's an example picked
at random:
https://www.fdean.gov.uk/media/3225/...march-2016.pdf -
suggests 400 centres, and that 2x3 is maybe slightly on the skimpy side
for 8ft.

surely the regs are based upon the assumption that the top surface of the
roof will be walked upon (either routinely or for maintenance)

this isn't the case here

tim

surely the regs are based upon the assumption that the top surface of the
roof will be walked upon (either routinely or for maintenance)

this isn't the case here

+1

Also with the existing ceiling a joists in place he has ample points for intermediate fixings to shorten the spans. I have seen plenty of false ceilings installed that way with 2x2 frameworks.

Richard

On 26/04/2020 11:25, Roland Perry wrote:

I've got an 8ft wide room that I wish to fit with a false ceiling.

2x3" battens (maybe an overkill, but they are easy to source) then
plasterboard.

How far apart should they be spaced?

The existing joists, which I won't be relying upon at all, are 15" apart.

Since this just needs to hold the plasterboard up, and won't ake any
additional load from maintenance access etc, then 24" centres ought to
be ok. (stick to a spacing that matches your plasterboard obviously, so
that a joist will fall on an edge of all the plasterboards)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sunday, 26 April 2020 11:28:52 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:

I've got an 8ft wide room that I wish to fit with a false ceiling.

2x3" battens (maybe an overkill, but they are easy to source) then
plasterboard.

How far apart should they be spaced?

The existing joists, which I won't be relying upon at all, are 15"
apart.

1.5 x 2.5 CLS would be more than enough. 16" is traditional, you can go wider to 2' if you want. The bigger you go the more likely cracks are to appear over time in the pb.


NT

In message , at
12:51:46 on Sun, 26 Apr 2020, John Rumm
remarked:
On 26/04/2020 11:25, Roland Perry wrote:

I've got an 8ft wide room that I wish to fit with a false ceiling.
2x3" battens (maybe an overkill, but they are easy to source) then
plasterboard.
How far apart should they be spaced?
The existing joists, which I won't be relying upon at all, are 15"
apart.

Since this just needs to hold the plasterboard up, and won't ake any
additional load from maintenance access etc, then 24" centres ought to
be ok. (stick to a spacing that matches your plasterboard obviously, so
that a joist will fall on an edge of all the plasterboards)

Good point. I hadn't thought of that!
--
Roland Perry

On 26/04/2020 11:25, Roland Perry wrote:
I've got an 8ft wide room that I wish to fit with a false ceiling.

2x3" battens (maybe an overkill, but they are easy to source) then
plasterboard.

How far apart should they be spaced?

The existing joists, which I won't be relying upon at all, are 15" apart.
Id use 2x4. 2x3 will sag a bit. even under their own weight over an8 ft
span.

But if you don't mind bow, roofing lath is strong enough!


--
Its easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
Mark Twain

On 26/04/2020 12:43, Tricky Dicky wrote:

surely the regs are based upon the assumption that the top surface of the
roof will be walked upon (either routinely or for maintenance)

walking on it occasionally and get some temporary bow is not the same as
having it permanently bowed by a grand piano in the room upstairs: loft
joists are typically far lighter than first floor joists. evemn if they
are usually trussed

this isn't the case here

+1

Also with the existing ceiling a joists in place he has ample points for intermediate fixings to shorten the spans. I have seen plenty of false ceilings installed that way with 2x2 frameworks.

Richard

Yes if hangers from the existing ceiling are employed, frankly a a few
matchsticks is all you need. You should see what crap is used in most
false ceilinged offices.



--
Its easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
Mark Twain

On 26/04/2020 12:51, John Rumm wrote:
On 26/04/2020 11:25, Roland Perry wrote:

I've got an 8ft wide room that I wish to fit with a false ceiling.

2x3" battens (maybe an overkill, but they are easy to source) then
plasterboard.

How far apart should they be spaced?

The existing joists, which I won't be relying upon at all, are 15" apart.

Since this just needs to hold the plasterboard up, and won't ake any
additional load from maintenance access etc, then 24" centres ought to
be ok. (stick to a spacing that matches your plasterboard obviously, so
that a joist will fall on an edge of all the plasterboards)


Maybe use those metal C sections used to construct the partition
walls of modern houses instead of 3x2 timber, which might turn
banana shaped if not screwed to a flat surface along their length.

Ie a horizontal wall. Might need some support in the middle to
stop sagging, but false ceilings in offices have been done like
this for ages.

He hasn't told us what the gap is above this false ceiling. does
it need a smoke detector ?.

In message , at 13:36:34 on Sun, 26 Apr
2020, The Natural Philosopher remarked:
On 26/04/2020 12:43, Tricky Dicky wrote:

surely the regs are based upon the assumption that the top surface
of the
roof will be walked upon (either routinely or for maintenance)

walking on it occasionally and get some temporary bow is not the same
as having it permanently bowed by a grand piano in the room upstairs:
loft joists are typically far lighter than first floor joists. evemn if
they are usually trussed

This is a ground floor ceiling.

this isn't the case here
+1
Also with the existing ceiling a joists in place he has ample points
for intermediate fixings to shorten the spans. I have seen plenty of
false ceilings installed that way with 2x2 frameworks.
Richard

Yes if hangers from the existing ceiling are employed, frankly a a few
matchsticks is all you need. You should see what crap is used in most
false ceilinged offices.

Using tiles though, not plasterboard.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 13:40:25 on Sun, 26 Apr
2020, Andrew remarked:

He hasn't told us what the gap is above this false ceiling. does
it need a smoke detector ?.

Eight inches. It's to disguise an RSJ, which I'm told will be itself be
cased in fireproof board at some stage.
--
Roland Perry

On 26/04/2020 13:54, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:36:34 on Sun, 26 Apr
2020, The Natural Philosopher remarked:
On 26/04/2020 12:43, Tricky Dicky wrote:

surely the regs are based upon the assumption that the top surface
of the
roof will be walked upon (either routinely or for maintenance)

walking on it occasionally and get some temporary bow is not the same
as having it permanently bowed by a grand piano in the room upstairs:
loft joists are typically far lighter than first floor joists. evemn
if they are usually trussed

This is a ground floor ceiling.

this isn't the case here
Â*+1
Â*Also with the existing ceiling a joists in place he has ample points
for intermediate fixings to shorten the spans. I have seen plenty of
false ceilings installed that way with 2x2 frameworks.
Â*Richard

Yes if hangers from the existing ceiling are employed, frankly a a few
matchsticks is all you need. You should see what crap is used in most
false ceilinged offices.

Using tiles though, not plasterboard.

similar weight tho


--
Of what good are dead warriors? €¦ Warriors are those who desire battle
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
battle dance and dream of glory €¦ The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

On 26/04/2020 13:57, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:40:25 on Sun, 26 Apr
2020, Andrew remarked:

He hasn't told us what the gap is above this false ceiling. does
it need a smoke detector ?.

Eight inches. It's to disguise an RSJ, which I'm told will be itself be
cased in fireproof board at some stage.
Ok well the consensus veers towards using hangers off the existing
ceiling joists and whatever you like that you can screw the board to


--
Of what good are dead warriors? €¦ Warriors are those who desire battle
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
battle dance and dream of glory €¦ The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

On 26/04/2020 13:36, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


Yes if hangers from the existing ceiling are employed, frankly a a few
matchsticks is all you need. You should see what crap is used in most
false ceilinged offices.

Plasterboard is heavier.

Having just put up a false plasterboard ceiling (using a metal frame)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh_-su4Vv3A)

Note all demos have square rooms - my ceiling didn't have one right
angled corner, nor was the original ceiling horizontal. Perfectly
horizontal on one wall but a 3 cm drop over the length of the room on
the opposite wall.

Consider the size of board. I used 1.2 x 2.4m (12mm thick) but if doing
the same again I would consider using smaller size board. I used a
(£120) plasterboard lift obtained on Ebay. These lifts are fairly basic
but work well but it helps if the plaster board is balanced on the lift.
I had to fit 1/3 sheets in some places which can unbalance the lift. I
used some bricks in a strong carrier bag on the lift arm on opposite
side to the board to balance.

If moving plasterboard around I found this type of carrier carrier ideal
(a fairly easy one man lift of 1.2 x 2.4m board)

https://www.screwfix.com/p/roughneck...questid=729745

(maybe cheaper on Ebay)

When driving screws into plasterboard I would recommend this type of
screwdriver bit which can really help by not driving the screw in too deep

https://www.screwfix.com/p/ph2-drywa...2-2-pack/6623v
(read the reviews)

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 26/04/2020 13:57, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:40:25 on Sun, 26 Apr
2020, Andrew remarked:

He hasn't told us what the gap is above this false ceiling. does
it need a smoke detector ?.

Eight inches. It's to disguise an RSJ, which I'm told will be itself be
cased in fireproof board at some stage.

Well you could rest one end of the 3x2's on the flange of the RSJ,
and hammer/wedge a strip of timber on top of the 3x2's lengthwise
along the RSJ such that the wedge is a tight fit into the gap between
the top of the 3x2 and the upper flange of the rsj, ...

leaving you to support the other end,..

However, BCO might raise objections to this approach.

In message , at 14:12:20 on Mon, 27 Apr
2020, Andrew remarked:
On 26/04/2020 13:57, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:40:25 on Sun, 26 Apr
2020, Andrew remarked:

He hasn't told us what the gap is above this false ceiling. does
it need a smoke detector ?.

Eight inches. It's to disguise an RSJ, which I'm told will be itself
be cased in fireproof board at some stage.

Well you could rest one end of the 3x2's on the flange of the RSJ,

But that would leave a surface significantly higher than the lower edge
of the fireproof board I'm told is supposed to be applied around the
RSJ.

and hammer/wedge a strip of timber on top of the 3x2's lengthwise
along the RSJ such that the wedge is a tight fit into the gap between
the top of the 3x2 and the upper flange of the rsj, ...

Why are we trying to stop the false ceiling floating upwards?

leaving you to support the other end,..

That would be on simple galvanised-iron hangers screwed to the brick
wall.

However, BCO might raise objections to this approach.

Perhaps they'd worry about supporting one end of my new timbers on the
RSJ compromising the fire proofing. Although I note that the ceiling
beams on the extension side of the RSJ (fitted by builders who have been
socially absent rather than merely distant, for over a month now) are
supported on the lower flange that side.
--
Roland Perry

On Sunday, 26 April 2020 16:24:38 UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
On 26/04/2020 13:36, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


Yes if hangers from the existing ceiling are employed, frankly a a few
matchsticks is all you need. You should see what crap is used in most
false ceilinged offices.

Plasterboard is heavier.

Having just put up a false plasterboard ceiling (using a metal frame)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh_-su4Vv3A)

Note all demos have square rooms - my ceiling didn't have one right
angled corner, nor was the original ceiling horizontal. Perfectly
horizontal on one wall but a 3 cm drop over the length of the room on
the opposite wall.

Consider the size of board. I used 1.2 x 2.4m (12mm thick) but if doing
the same again I would consider using smaller size board. I used a
(£120) plasterboard lift obtained on Ebay. These lifts are fairly basic
but work well but it helps if the plaster board is balanced on the lift.
I had to fit 1/3 sheets in some places which can unbalance the lift. I
used some bricks in a strong carrier bag on the lift arm on opposite
side to the board to balance.

If moving plasterboard around I found this type of carrier carrier ideal
(a fairly easy one man lift of 1.2 x 2.4m board)

https://www.screwfix.com/p/roughneck...questid=729745

(maybe cheaper on Ebay)

When driving screws into plasterboard I would recommend this type of
screwdriver bit which can really help by not driving the screw in too deep

https://www.screwfix.com/p/ph2-drywa...2-2-pack/6623v
(read the reviews)

Smaller boards than 4x8 are so much easier. Rather than paying £££ for a board lift you can just use a strip of 1/2 x 2 as a dead man. It bends enough to easily slide it into place & remove tension when needed. Put a little crosspiece on top & it won't dent the boards.


NT

wrote:

Smaller boards than 4x8 are so much easier.

but price per unit area at least 50% higher, and you've got a longer run
of joints to tape and fill.

In message , at 18:10:51 on Mon, 27
Apr 2020, Andy Burns remarked:

Smaller boards than 4x8 are so much easier.

but price per unit area at least 50% higher, and you've got a longer
run of joints to tape and fill.

And in the long term, fewer cracks and joints to paper over, with bigger
sheets.
--
Roland Perry

On Monday, 27 April 2020 18:10:55 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:

Smaller boards than 4x8 are so much easier.

but price per unit area at least 50% higher, and you've got a longer run
of joints to tape and fill.

yup - definitely worth it if you're working on your own.


NT

On 27/04/2020 14:44, Roland Perry wrote:

Why are we trying to stop the false ceiling floating upwards?

To stop the rigid plasterboard ceiling moving and cracking along the
joins over time. Open/closing a door in a domestic room can cause an
air pressure change and cause a suspended ceiling to move if not
securely anchored. If ceiling tiles move they will just settle back in
their frames as they are only held in place by gravity. If a
plasterboard jointed ceiling moves it can crack along the joins.

On my metal ceiling frame where the metal support struts cross they can
be fixed with spring clips which allow a small amount of movement BUT
the manufacturer recommends for smaller domestic property rooms that the
spring clips are replaced with screws to create a more rigid structure.
My metal framework is screwed together with self drilling screws
designed for the purpose. It took around 5 seconds each time two metal
metal sections had to be joined.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/easydrive...200-pack/5004h

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 27/04/2020 18:02, wrote:
On Sunday, 26 April 2020 16:24:38 UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
On 26/04/2020 13:36, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


Yes if hangers from the existing ceiling are employed, frankly a
a few matchsticks is all you need. You should see what crap is
used in most false ceilinged offices.

Plasterboard is heavier.

Having just put up a false plasterboard ceiling (using a metal
frame)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh_-su4Vv3A)

Note all demos have square rooms - my ceiling didn't have one
right angled corner, nor was the original ceiling horizontal.
Perfectly horizontal on one wall but a 3 cm drop over the length of
the room on the opposite wall.

Consider the size of board. I used 1.2 x 2.4m (12mm thick) but if
doing the same again I would consider using smaller size board. I
used a (£120) plasterboard lift obtained on Ebay. These lifts are
fairly basic but work well but it helps if the plaster board is
balanced on the lift. I had to fit 1/3 sheets in some places which
can unbalance the lift. I used some bricks in a strong carrier bag
on the lift arm on opposite side to the board to balance.

If moving plasterboard around I found this type of carrier carrier
ideal (a fairly easy one man lift of 1.2 x 2.4m board)

https://www.screwfix.com/p/roughneck...questid=729745



(maybe cheaper on Ebay)

When driving screws into plasterboard I would recommend this type
of screwdriver bit which can really help by not driving the screw
in too deep

https://www.screwfix.com/p/ph2-drywa...2-2-pack/6623v


(read the reviews)

Smaller boards than 4x8 are so much easier. Rather than paying £££
for a board lift you can just use a strip of 1/2 x 2 as a dead man.
It bends enough to easily slide it into place & remove tension when
needed. Put a little crosspiece on top & it won't dent the boards.


+1 for the dead man prop:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Dead_man_prop

I managed to do all the ceilings on my loft conversion by myself using
one of those, and 8x4 sheets of 12mm plasterboard.

(to be fair I could reach the ceiling from the floor which makes it easier)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 28/04/2020 04:31, John Rumm wrote:


Â*+1 for the dead man prop:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Dead_man_prop

I managed to do all the ceilings on my loft conversion by myself using
one of those, and 8x4 sheets of 12mm plasterboard.

(to be fair I could reach the ceiling from the floor which makes it easier)



My false ceiling is still 8ft. I purchased the lift after previously
only using two dead man props to overboard in a much smaller room. I
still have a much larger room ceiling which I want to overboard so the
investment in a lift makes sense (to me).



--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 27/04/2020 18:40, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 18:10:51 on Mon, 27
Apr 2020, Andy Burns remarked:

Smaller boards than 4x8 are so much easier.

but price per unit area at least 50% higher, and you've got a longer
run of joints to tape and fill.

And in the long term, fewer cracks and joints to paper over, with bigger
sheets.

Just ask your other half to help support the 4*8 sheets with a
kitchen broom. Immediately after a visit to the hairdresser is
an ideal time to ask :-)

In message , Roland Perry
writes
That's going to be an awful lot of fireproof plasterboard (although not
necessarily a bad thing). The original plan was just to box in the RSJ,
I think. And have a "step" between the two halves, but that's going to
look very odd.

Plasterboard is apparently the new toilet paper. Factories are closed
and builders merchants run out.
I have a couple of sheets put by:-)

Could you not clad the beam in enough Oak to meet the fire regs. and
call it a *feature*?

--
Tim Lamb

In message , at 11:32:46 on
Tue, 28 Apr 2020, Tim Lamb remarked:
In message , Roland Perry
writes
That's going to be an awful lot of fireproof plasterboard (although
not necessarily a bad thing). The original plan was just to box in the
RSJ, I think. And have a "step" between the two halves, but that's
going to look very odd.

Plasterboard is apparently the new toilet paper. Factories are closed
and builders merchants run out.
I have a couple of sheets put by:-)

Could you not clad the beam in enough Oak to meet the fire regs. and
call it a *feature*?

The objective is to have a flat ceiling, not one with a feature
RSJ-cladding.
--
Roland Perry

On 28/04/2020 12:09, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:32:46 on
Tue, 28 Apr 2020, Tim Lamb remarked:
In message , Roland Perry
writes
That's going to be an awful lot of fireproof plasterboard (although
not necessarily a bad thing). The original plan was just to box in
the RSJ, I think. And have a "step" between the two halves, but
that's going to look very odd.

Plasterboard is apparently the new toilet paper. Factories are closed
and builders merchants run out.
I have a couple of sheets put by:-)

Could you not clad the beam in enough Oak to meet the fire regs. and
call it a *feature*?

The objective is to have a flat ceiling, not one with a feature
RSJ-cladding.

I have some 'feature RSJ-cladding' :-)

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...m/DSC_0003.JPG

There is an RSJ with that massive beam slotted into it, over those doors...

--
€œIdeas are inherently conservative. They yield not to the attack of
other ideas but to the massive onslaught of circumstance"

- John K Galbraith

On 28/04/2020 12:09, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:32:46 on
Tue, 28 Apr 2020, Tim Lamb remarked:
In message , Roland Perry
writes
That's going to be an awful lot of fireproof plasterboard (although
not necessarily a bad thing). The original plan was just to box in
the RSJ, I think. And have a "step" between the two halves, but
that's going to look very odd.

Plasterboard is apparently the new toilet paper. Factories are closed
and builders merchants run out.
I have a couple of sheets put by:-)

Could you not clad the beam in enough Oak to meet the fire regs. and
call it a *feature*?

The objective is to have a flat ceiling, not one with a feature
RSJ-cladding.

So, in your addition to my 'graphics' you could trim those 6x2
joists to drop their bottom edge level with the underside of the
RSJ, unless the work is already done in which case just run your
3x2 at 90 degrees to the 6x2 and screw the cross joints.

2 layers of 12.5 PB is usually acceptable intead of 1 layer
of 15 mm pink fireline to a BCO

On 28/04/2020 08:53, alan_m wrote:
On 28/04/2020 04:31, John Rumm wrote:


Â*Â*+1 for the dead man prop:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Dead_man_prop

I managed to do all the ceilings on my loft conversion by myself using
one of those, and 8x4 sheets of 12mm plasterboard.

(to be fair I could reach the ceiling from the floor which makes it
easier)



My false ceiling is still 8ft.

I can probably still (just!) reach that from the ground :-)

I purchased the lift after previously
only using two dead man props to overboard in a much smaller room. I
still have a much larger room ceiling which I want to overboard so the
investment in a lift makes sense (to me).

Yup, lifts are nice - especially if you are doing it several times.
Still worth having a prop or two even with the lift though, since
sometimes it nice to hold a board in place and then be able to get the
lift out of the way so you don't have to work round it.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , at 13:02:37 on Tue, 28 Apr
2020, Andrew remarked:
On 28/04/2020 12:09, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:32:46 on
Tue, 28 Apr 2020, Tim Lamb remarked:
In message , Roland Perry
writes
That's going to be an awful lot of fireproof plasterboard (although
not necessarily a bad thing). The original plan was just to box in
the RSJ, I think. And have a "step" between the two halves, but
that's going to look very odd.

Plasterboard is apparently the new toilet paper. Factories are
closed and builders merchants run out.
I have a couple of sheets put by:-)

Could you not clad the beam in enough Oak to meet the fire regs. and
call it a *feature*?
The objective is to have a flat ceiling, not one with a feature
RSJ-cladding.

So, in your addition to my 'graphics' you could trim those 6x2
joists to drop their bottom edge level with the underside of the
RSJ, unless the work is already done

They are very firmly completely above the lower flange.

in which case just run your
3x2 at 90 degrees to the 6x2 and screw the cross joints.

2 layers of 12.5 PB is usually acceptable intead of 1 layer
of 15 mm pink fireline to a BCO

Thanks.
--
Roland Perry