I would appreciate your advice/expertise concerning the following:

I'm a first time buyer, buying a property (Victorian End-of terrace 3
bedroom / 2 stories house) in London (Leyton - East London).

I saw the house for £250k - put down the full asking price, had the
full building survey done which revealed some nasty suprises. The full
building report raised the issue of current cracking/old cracking on
the extension part of the Victorian property and I required a
structual engineer.

Vendor is putting pressure on me to exchange contracts - gave me
ultimatum for end Aug-04. I wrote letter requiring more time, vendor
wrote back saying I had more time however he would grant me more time
provided that I give him a copy of the full strucutral which is needed
for the property.

Dont' want to provide structural report for free, neither do I want to
pay extra money for a structural report and loose more money.

i'm not happy with the issues with the current state of the house,
want to negotiate through agency (not met vendor) and am proposing
calling a meeting to discuss a negotiation of reducing the price
BEFORE I undertake any further reports/estimate quotes.

Does anybody have any experience with negotiatiating without getting
further estimates / quotes. I have however had my surveyor 'in
writing' state that the list of issues below 'see below' would
approximatley cost £10 - 15k.

Any advice welcome.


ISSUES
Rising dampness
* (kitchen) - rear wall, revealed areas with rising dampness problems
* (cellar) – "high damp meter readings" were recorded
* (all elevations) - evidence of dampness found

Structure
Movement to the rear elevations and side elevation to the back
addition has shows existing and current cracking 'require strucutral
engineer'

Woodworm
(Cellar) woodworm found to attack structural timbers supporting the
house.
Cellar Requires attention - flooding evidence.

Windows
* Windows: wood condition rotting taking effect requires replacing
* Windows require replacing and plaster work around windows are "loose
and uncertain".
* Drip grooves or "throatings" are required to external cills so as to
prevent water seeping back beneath and soaking the brickwork in the
wall adjacent, detaching the plasterwork within.

Electrical System
Incoming electrical works at low level (cellar), "thought to be fairly
crude" with loose and old wiring etc. "needs special attention".

Condensation
Condensation in roof needs to be addressed.

Chimney breast/s
Chimney breast removed, require support to be added and additional
ventilation.

"David Phillip" wrote in message
om...
I would appreciate your advice/expertise concerning the following:

I'm a first time buyer, buying a property (Victorian End-of terrace 3
bedroom / 2 stories house) in London (Leyton - East London).

I saw the house for £250k - put down the full asking price, had the
full building survey done which revealed some nasty suprises. The full
building report raised the issue of current cracking/old cracking on
the extension part of the Victorian property and I required a
structual engineer.

Vendor is putting pressure on me to exchange contracts - gave me
ultimatum for end Aug-04. I wrote letter requiring more time, vendor
wrote back saying I had more time however he would grant me more time
provided that I give him a copy of the full strucutral which is needed
for the property.

It's your money. If the vendor is laying down conditions you are unhappy
with I would threaten to walk away. He may just accept this but in the
current declining market for properties at the price you mention he'd be
silly to do so I think.


Dont' want to provide structural report for free, neither do I want to
pay extra money for a structural report and loose more money.

i'm not happy with the issues with the current state of the house,
want to negotiate through agency (not met vendor) and am proposing
calling a meeting to discuss a negotiation of reducing the price
BEFORE I undertake any further reports/estimate quotes.

Good idea. You may find that the vendor believes the house is worth more
than £250k anyway and is only selling at that price because of stamp duty
issues, in which case he will probably refuse to lower the price come what
may. Of course a house is only worth what people will pay for it but that
doesn't seem to enter some people's heads. Also bear in mind that even once
you'vd done all the improvements the stamp duty limit will ensure the house
is still only worth £250k for some time to come.




ISSUES
Rising dampness
* (kitchen) - rear wall, revealed areas with rising dampness problems
Needs checking. Fairly easy to fix.

* (cellar) - "high damp meter readings" were recorded
Cellars always are. If you want a dry cellar you need to tank it properly
with a drainage pump.

* (all elevations) - evidence of dampness found
What does this add ?


Structure
Movement to the rear elevations and side elevation to the back
addition has shows existing and current cracking 'require strucutral
engineer'
Current cracking is worrying.

Woodworm
(Cellar) woodworm found to attack structural timbers supporting the
house.
This is not a £10k job anymore.

Cellar Requires attention - flooding evidence.

Windows
* Windows: wood condition rotting taking effect requires replacing
* Windows require replacing and plaster work around windows are "loose
and uncertain".
* Drip grooves or "throatings" are required to external cills so as to
prevent water seeping back beneath and soaking the brickwork in the
wall adjacent, detaching the plasterwork within.

Electrical System
Incoming electrical works at low level (cellar), "thought to be fairly
crude" with loose and old wiring etc. "needs special attention".

Condensation
Condensation in roof needs to be addressed.

Chimney breast/s
Chimney breast removed, require support to be added and additional
ventilation.

Is your heart set on this house ? With all this lot I'd look elsewhere.

"David Phillip" wrote in message
om...
I would appreciate your advice/expertise concerning the following:

I'm a first time buyer, buying a property (Victorian End-of terrace 3
bedroom / 2 stories house) in London (Leyton - East London).

I saw the house for £250k - put down the full asking price, had the
full building survey done which revealed some nasty suprises. The full
building report raised the issue of current cracking/old cracking on
the extension part of the Victorian property and I required a
structual engineer.

Vendor is putting pressure on me to exchange contracts - gave me
ultimatum for end Aug-04. I wrote letter requiring more time, vendor
wrote back saying I had more time however he would grant me more time
provided that I give him a copy of the full strucutral which is needed
for the property.

Dont' want to provide structural report for free, neither do I want to
pay extra money for a structural report and loose more money.

i'm not happy with the issues with the current state of the house,
want to negotiate through agency (not met vendor) and am proposing
calling a meeting to discuss a negotiation of reducing the price
BEFORE I undertake any further reports/estimate quotes.

Does anybody have any experience with negotiatiating without getting
further estimates / quotes. I have however had my surveyor 'in
writing' state that the list of issues below 'see below' would
approximatley cost £10 - 15k.

Any advice welcome.


ISSUES
Rising dampness
* (kitchen) - rear wall, revealed areas with rising dampness problems
* (cellar) - "high damp meter readings" were recorded
* (all elevations) - evidence of dampness found

Structure
Movement to the rear elevations and side elevation to the back
addition has shows existing and current cracking 'require strucutral
engineer'

Woodworm
(Cellar) woodworm found to attack structural timbers supporting the
house.
Cellar Requires attention - flooding evidence.

Windows
* Windows: wood condition rotting taking effect requires replacing
* Windows require replacing and plaster work around windows are "loose
and uncertain".
* Drip grooves or "throatings" are required to external cills so as to
prevent water seeping back beneath and soaking the brickwork in the
wall adjacent, detaching the plasterwork within.

Electrical System
Incoming electrical works at low level (cellar), "thought to be fairly
crude" with loose and old wiring etc. "needs special attention".

Condensation
Condensation in roof needs to be addressed.

Chimney breast/s
Chimney breast removed, require support to be added and additional
ventilation.

I don't think you should be bullied - your survey was a wise investment and
should give you hansome returns, either in the form of reduced purchase
price or, if the deal falls through, it will save you a great deal of money
in unexpected repairs. You are doing the right thing.

The first thing is that Victorian houses are never free of problems - it is
only to be expected your surveyor will highlight them. The important thing
is to gain an understanding of the magnitude of them. I suggest talking it
through with the surveyor and seeing how serioulsy he views things.

Victorian houses are often built on minimal foundations and initial movement
is common in my experience and may not be a problem. However your surveyor
is perhaps suggesting that it is still occuring - you need to discuss this
with him. This will give you a feel re structural engineer etc.

One serious consequence is that you may find it very difficult to gain
insurance. You also do not state if you are getting a mortgage and whether
the lender has seen the report or whether they are using a separate
valuation.

Damp is a bit more tricky - it is often found but you may find that dealing
with the cills and roof condensation gives sufficient relief not to need a
damp treatment. A slate damp proof layer may well be built into the walls
and if it is not bridged then it should continue to work. The flooding on
the cellar depends on the use you are going to make of it. We had to put a
pump in ours which turned out to be easy - but your layout may be different.

A specialist damp/timber report from a trusted expert may be worthwhile. The
woodworm may well be old and not worth treating.

I would not let the vendor bully you. There is too much at stake. Keep them
(via the agent) well informed of your commitment to continue with the
process - communication is very important. If he is too impatient then let
him find another first time buyer and run the risk of them going through the
same experience.

I see no reason to provide copies of the survey at any stage. However, they
may want some evidence that things were found and the order of costs. A
simple lettter from him may help, or photocopy just the most relevant
section. Ditto the engineer's report. Armed with such professional advice it
will be very difficult for him to refute your claims in the negotiations.

If it is any consolation we had a total of six reports when we went through
this process - structure, timber/damp, darins, wiring, pumbing/heating, roof
replacement quote. They were an excellent investment with a return of tens
of times their costs.

You are wise to negotiate through the agent and not directly - I would not
meet but do it by phone. The agent may be more helpful to you than you
think - after all they are only paid if you purchase so it is in their
interests to get a deal. In my opinion keep your powder dry by not revealing
your evidence until you have it all and know how much you want to pay.

Hope that helps

Harry

PS the above are my own opinions, rely upon them at your peril!

In message , David
Phillip writes
I would appreciate your advice/expertise concerning the following:

I'm a first time buyer, buying a property (Victorian End-of terrace 3
bedroom / 2 stories house) in London (Leyton - East London).

I saw the house for £250k - put down the full asking price, had the
full building survey done which revealed some nasty suprises. The full
building report raised the issue of current cracking/old cracking on
the extension part of the Victorian property and I required a
structual engineer.


Firstly, when I was an estate agent, the moment someone, (particularly a
first time buyer), declared that they were having a full building
survey, I was looking for another buyer.

The surveyors job with this type of survey is to find every tiny thing
which might be wrong with the house, make it sound serious enough to
make sure that you could not have missed it, and pass the buck to other
agencies where possible.

The concomitant of this is a survey which will frighten most people away
from buying any house, (sometimes even a brand new one g), and it
seems to have done its job.

Vendor is putting pressure on me to exchange contracts - gave me
ultimatum for end Aug-04. I wrote letter requiring more time, vendor
wrote back saying I had more time however he would grant me more time
provided that I give him a copy of the full strucutral which is needed
for the property.

Dont' want to provide structural report for free, neither do I want to
pay extra money for a structural report and loose more money.



Why do you have a survey done other than to ensure that you are happy
with the house, or to negotiate with the vendor if you are not? How do
you expect to negotiate with a vendor, relying on the contents of your
survey, without showing him the evidence. He has agreed to your demand
for more time, subject to your giving him something to justify it - the
survey

Presumably you will not buy the house without having a structural
engineers report done, so you will have to spend the money, or not buy
the house - bit of a Catch 22 eh?

In the same way, unless the vendor has another buyer, or is intending
not to sell his house if you dont meet his deadline, you have probably
got as long as you want - until one of the above arises.

i'm not happy with the issues with the current state of the house,
want to negotiate through agency (not met vendor) and am proposing
calling a meeting to discuss a negotiation of reducing the price
BEFORE I undertake any further reports/estimate quotes.

Does anybody have any experience with negotiatiating without getting
further estimates / quotes. I have however had my surveyor 'in
writing' state that the list of issues below 'see below' would
approximatley cost £10 - 15k.


Lots of experience - there is no way I would ever suggest that a vendor
negotiate over the guesstimated contents of a survey, without having
every item inspected and quoted for. With the vendors permission, I
would tell you to come back with your quotes and we would consider your
offer at the time, dependent upon whether we had sold the house to
someone else, or not.

However, if the market is not buoyant, and there may not be other
buyers, we may have to bear with you, and may not be able to be so
assertive.

Any advice welcome.


ISSUES
Rising dampness
* (kitchen) - rear wall, revealed areas with rising dampness problems
* (cellar) €“ "high damp meter readings" were recorded
* (all elevations) - evidence of dampness found

Damp is generally no big deal, and is often caused by things other than
rising damp - surveyors find it easy to say rising damp as they can pass
the buck to a damp proofing firm, who will confirm his findings in order
to get some work.

Structure
Movement to the rear elevations and side elevation to the back
addition has shows existing and current cracking 'require strucutral
engineer'


Agreed, but could be CYA. You need the engineers report. In most of my
experience, the engineer will advise that the cracking has been there a
long time, and is not getting worse - occasionally they wont.

Woodworm
(Cellar) woodworm found to attack structural timbers supporting the
house.
Cellar Requires attention - flooding evidence.


Did he see the worms, or the sawdust below the holes, or did he just see
the holes - you need a woodworm expert to look at this - but not
J.Bloggs Damproofing and Woodworm.

Windows
* Windows: wood condition rotting taking effect requires replacing
* Windows require replacing and plaster work around windows are "loose
and uncertain".
* Drip grooves or "throatings" are required to external cills so as to
prevent water seeping back beneath and soaking the brickwork in the
wall adjacent, detaching the plasterwork within.

Get a quote for what is actually needed.

Electrical System
Incoming electrical works at low level (cellar), "thought to be fairly
crude" with loose and old wiring etc. "needs special attention".

Generally no big deal - usually a few hundred quid.

Condensation
Condensation in roof needs to be addressed.

Did he say how? If not, ask him.

Chimney breast/s
Chimney breast removed, require support to be added and additional
ventilation.

Get a quote - Having said that, I often found that surveyors would say
support was needed, when it already existed.

These are all normal things which are not surprising in a house which is
over 100 years old.

£10K - £15K is not a big deal in a £250K transaction and, personally,
I probably wouldnt bother to argue the toss.

Be aware that, if you cannot reach agreement with the vendor and have to
buy another house, a full building survey will probably create the same
type of situation. After 4/5 of these experiences, you may decide that
this is how it is, and wish you had bought the first one.

--
Richard Faulkner

"David Phillip" wrote in message
om...
I would appreciate your advice/expertise concerning the following:

I'm a first time buyer, buying a property (Victorian End-of terrace 3
bedroom / 2 stories house) in London (Leyton - East London).

I saw the house for £250k - put down the full asking price, had the
full building survey done which revealed some nasty suprises. The full
building report raised the issue of current cracking/old cracking on
the extension part of the Victorian property and I required a
structual engineer.

Vendor is putting pressure on me to exchange contracts - gave me
ultimatum for end Aug-04. I wrote letter requiring more time, vendor
wrote back saying I had more time however he would grant me more time
provided that I give him a copy of the full strucutral which is needed
for the property.

Dont' want to provide structural report for free, neither do I want to
pay extra money for a structural report and loose more money.

i'm not happy with the issues with the current state of the house,
want to negotiate through agency (not met vendor) and am proposing
calling a meeting to discuss a negotiation of reducing the price
BEFORE I undertake any further reports/estimate quotes.

Does anybody have any experience with negotiatiating without getting
further estimates / quotes. I have however had my surveyor 'in
writing' state that the list of issues below 'see below' would
approximatley cost £10 - 15k.

Any advice welcome.


ISSUES
Rising dampness
* (kitchen) - rear wall, revealed areas with rising dampness problems
* (cellar) - "high damp meter readings" were recorded
* (all elevations) - evidence of dampness found

Structure
Movement to the rear elevations and side elevation to the back
addition has shows existing and current cracking 'require strucutral
engineer'

Woodworm
(Cellar) woodworm found to attack structural timbers supporting the
house.
Cellar Requires attention - flooding evidence.

Windows
* Windows: wood condition rotting taking effect requires replacing
* Windows require replacing and plaster work around windows are "loose
and uncertain".
* Drip grooves or "throatings" are required to external cills so as to
prevent water seeping back beneath and soaking the brickwork in the
wall adjacent, detaching the plasterwork within.

Electrical System
Incoming electrical works at low level (cellar), "thought to be fairly
crude" with loose and old wiring etc. "needs special attention".

Condensation
Condensation in roof needs to be addressed.

Chimney breast/s
Chimney breast removed, require support to be added and additional
ventilation.

Personally, I would walkaway and look for somewhere else.
--
troubleinstore
http://www.tuppencechange.co.uk
Personal mail can be sent via website.
Email address in posting is ficticious and is intended as spam trap



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 06/08/2004

Any advice welcome.

Walk away from it! There are plenty more houses without problems. The vendor
just wants the survey on the cheap.

"David Phillip" wrote in message
om...
....
ISSUES
Rising dampness
* (kitchen) - rear wall, revealed areas with rising dampness problems

Can you see the damp or is it only obvious to someone with a dampness meter?
If the latter, it is more likely to be condensation, which tends to happen
in kitchens. It might still be condensation, even if you can see evidence of
the dampness. In any case, unless there is an obvious need to do
rectification work, you can probably ignore it.

* (cellar) - "high damp meter readings" were recorded

It is a Victorian cellar. They are all damp.

* (all elevations) - evidence of dampness found

Probably raining on the day he did the survey :-) Again, unless the dampness
produces visible evidence, it probably can be ignored.

Structure
Movement to the rear elevations and side elevation to the back
addition has shows existing and current cracking 'require strucutral
engineer'

A lot of Victorian houses in London will have cracking from WW2 bomb damage.
If he is right about the cracking being current, then this is potentially a
serious problem. However, a surveyor will almost always describe cracking as
existing and current, because it covers him if it turns out he mistook
subsidence for bomb damage. This is one area where you do need to do some
more investigation.

Woodworm
(Cellar) woodworm found to attack structural timbers supporting the
house.

It is a Victorian house in London. It will have woodworm. What is important
is whether it is new or old woodworm and how badly affected the timbers are.
Old woodworm is not usually a matter for concern.

Cellar Requires attention - flooding evidence.

Talk to the neighbours and the local Water Authority, to find out when
flooding last happened. My house has evidence of flooding under the floors,
but the provision of a pumping station a quarter of a century ago stopped
the flooding.

Windows
* Windows: wood condition rotting taking effect requires replacing
* Windows require replacing and plaster work around windows are "loose
and uncertain".

I would not consider that particularly unusual on a house of that age. The
rot certainly will need attention, although you need to determine whether it
is wet rot, which is a minor problem, or dry rot, which is serious.

* Drip grooves or "throatings" are required to external cills so as to
prevent water seeping back beneath and soaking the brickwork in the
wall adjacent, detaching the plasterwork within.

Easy enough to cut, or you could just add a small bead of wood under the
edge, to give the same effect.

Electrical System
Incoming electrical works at low level (cellar), "thought to be fairly
crude" with loose and old wiring etc. "needs special attention".

On a house of that age, I would expect it to need a rewire and be pleased,
(and a little surprised) if it did not. The incoming wiring is, however, a
matter for the electricty supplier to sort out.

Condensation
Condensation in roof needs to be addressed.

Easy enough to add ventilation, although my experiences of Victorian roof
spaces is that they are usually quite drafty.

Chimney breast/s
Chimney breast removed, require support to be added and additional
ventilation.

The additional support bit is fairly serious and will need to be dealt with.
Some of the dampness noted earlier could be down to this lack of
ventilation.

All in all, much the sort of report I would expect to see on a Victorian
house in London. There are matters that need to be clarified, but you will
be lucky (or have an incompetent surveyor) if you ask for a full survey on
any similar house and don't get this sort of report.

As for the buyer pressuring you, it may be that you are holding up a chain
and he is getting pressure from further along it. However, it is your money
and you don't want to part with it until you are sure that you are buying
the house you want to have. Expect to become a regular here if you are
buying a Victorian property.

Colin Bignell

In article ,
David Phillip wrote:
I'm a first time buyer, buying a property (Victorian End-of terrace 3
bedroom / 2 stories house) in London (Leyton - East London).

I saw the house for £250k - put down the full asking price, had the
full building survey done which revealed some nasty suprises. The full
building report raised the issue of current cracking/old cracking on
the extension part of the Victorian property and I required a
structual engineer.

snip

Most of these issues are common on a Victorian property - especially one
which has had little or poor maintenance. It's over 100 years old, so
you'd expect some things to need attention.

It all comes down to price. Which seems cheap to me for a 3 bed end of
terrace - or certainly would be in this part of London. Get a few
independant valuations and decide whether it's worth it or not. At the end
of the day, that's all you can do. You can't force the seller to reduce
the price - although there's no harm in trying.

--
*I started out with nothing... and I still have most of it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

David Phillip wrote:
I'm a first time buyer, buying a property (Victorian End-of
terrace 3 bedroom / 2 stories house) in London (Leyton - East
London).
=20
I saw the house for =A3250k - put down the full asking price, had
the full building survey done which revealed some nasty suprises.
The full building report raised the issue of current cracking/old
cracking on the extension part of the Victorian property and I
required a structual engineer.
=20
Vendor is putting pressure on me to exchange contracts - gave me
ultimatum for end Aug-04.

There are lots of houses available. They will shortly become
cheaper, too. Say you reject his ultimatum (in the nicest possible
way).


I wrote letter requiring more time, vendor wrote back saying I
had more time however he would grant me more time provided that
I give him a copy of the full strucutral which is needed
for the property.
=20
Dont' want to provide structural report for free,

Well, sell it to him, or write a condensed version in your own
words pointing out the broad problems. Not too much detail.


neither do I want to
pay extra money for a structural report and loose more money.

It does not pay to be loose with your money.


i'm not happy with the issues with the current state of the house,
want to negotiate through agency (not met vendor) and am proposing
calling a meeting to discuss a negotiation of reducing the price
BEFORE I undertake any further reports/estimate quotes.

Does anybody have any experience with negotiatiating without
getting further estimates / quotes. I have however had my
surveyor 'in writing' state that the list of issues below 'see
below' would approximatley cost =A310 - 15k.

Sounds good enough to me to negotiate a reduction. Note that
*you* are the buyer, and you make your decisions. If you really
don't like it, don't buy it. If it's something special, then
you will have to be a bit more careful!


Any advice welcome.
=20
ISSUES
Rising dampness
* (kitchen) - rear wall, revealed areas with rising dampness
problems
* (cellar) =96 "high damp meter readings" were recorded
* (all elevations) - evidence of dampness found

Has this place been shut up for a while? Which ways do the front/
back/end face? When/how was it extended?


Structure
Movement to the rear elevations and side elevation to the back
addition has shows existing and current cracking 'require
strucutral engineer'

Can you see this cracking? Where is it, and how has the extension
been joined? Is there distortion (looking along the walls)? Has
any tree removal happened recently? Are other houses in good
condition (have you talked to the neighbours? - this might be
quite useful as their house joins).

Woodworm
(Cellar) woodworm found to attack structural timbers supporting
the house.

Are the flight holes recent? What "structural" timbers are these,
floor joists? I don't see how timbers would "support the house"
for this sort of building. If the timbers are not damaged enough
to warrant replacement, the cure is simply to treat them. Most
old houses will have some woodworm - it's "normal".


Cellar Requires attention - flooding evidence.

Another good reason to talk to the neighbour. What flooding
evidence?

Windows
* Windows: wood condition rotting taking effect requires replacing

What sort of windows are they?


* Windows require replacing and plaster work around windows are "loose
and uncertain".

Patching, or re-plastering of those walls.


* Drip grooves or "throatings" are required to external cills
so as to prevent water seeping back beneath and soaking the
brickwork in the wall adjacent, detaching the plasterwork
within.

No big deal usualy - what are the cills made of?


Electrical System
Incoming electrical works at low level (cellar), "thought to be
fairly crude" with loose and old wiring etc. "needs special
attention".

The electricity company will deal with anything their side - re-
wiring bits and pieces "as is" is not hard or expensive.

=20
Condensation
Condensation in roof needs to be addressed.

What condensation? Has it affected any roof timbers? This is
likely to be easy to deal with.


Chimney breast/s
Chimney breast removed, require support to be added and
additional ventilation.

Um. Is this on the party wall?


Lots of things to consider. Anyway, unless you are really sold on
the place, there is *no hurry*. The market is dead slack at the
moment, at best.


J.B.

In article ,
nightjar wrote:
Structure Movement to the rear elevations and side elevation to the
back addition has shows existing and current cracking 'require
strucutral engineer'

A lot of Victorian houses in London will have cracking from WW2 bomb
damage. If he is right about the cracking being current, then this is
potentially a serious problem. However, a surveyor will almost always
describe cracking as existing and current, because it covers him if it
turns out he mistook subsidence for bomb damage. This is one area where
you do need to do some more investigation.

Yes. A quick look by a surveyor can't possibly say whether it's current or
old movement. Cracks are common on this sort of build.

--
*I feel like I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Richard Faulkner wrote:
snip
The surveyors job with this type of survey is to find every tiny thing
which might be wrong with the house, make it sound serious enough to
make sure that you could not have missed it, and pass the buck to other
agencies where possible.

Is it generally possible to hire a surveyor, on the condition that you
want to walk round with him, and have him explain faults, so you
can discuss, rather than just getting a report?

In message , Ian
Stirling writes
Richard Faulkner wrote:
snip
The surveyors job with this type of survey is to find every tiny thing
which might be wrong with the house, make it sound serious enough to
make sure that you could not have missed it, and pass the buck to other
agencies where possible.

Is it generally possible to hire a surveyor, on the condition that you
want to walk round with him, and have him explain faults, so you
can discuss, rather than just getting a report?

In my experience, they would definitely rather that you werent there.
Mainly because they would get drawn into discussions which would add
substantially to the time taken for the survey.

I think if you wanted to do this, and get a surveyor motivated to do it,
(rather than hacked off), you should discuss it up front, and offer to
pay for any extra time it might take.

--
Richard Faulkner

"Ian Stirling" wrote in message
...
Richard Faulkner wrote:
snip
The surveyors job with this type of survey is to find every tiny thing
which might be wrong with the house, make it sound serious enough to
make sure that you could not have missed it, and pass the buck to other
agencies where possible.

Is it generally possible to hire a surveyor, on the condition that you
want to walk round with him, and have him explain faults, so you
can discuss, rather than just getting a report?

That is exactly what the buyer of a house I am selling did. He walked around
with the two of us and explained what problems there could be from bits he
could see. It was not intended as a full survey and did not produce a
report, but rather a letter emphasising salient points. Fortunately, the
need for a complete new roof (also mentioned in our buyer's survey of 1981)
did not put her off.

Colin Bignell

Jerry Built wrote in message .. .
David Phillip wrote:

Any advice welcome.

Rising dampness
* (kitchen) - rear wall, revealed areas with rising dampness problems
* (cellar) =96 "high damp meter readings" were recorded
* (all elevations) - evidence of dampness found

damp assesments tend to be so bad you need to assess it yourself.
False positive diagnoses are widespread. Which of the signs of damp
are present?

My wariness is increased by the diganosis of rising damp: almost all
such diganoses are false. It exists but is pretty uncommon.


Woodworm
(Cellar) woodworm found to attack structural timbers supporting
the house.

All Vic properties have woodwormed timbers, so this is meaningless.
The question is how much holing, is it bad enough to seriuosly affect
the strength?

Timbers supporting the house? Unusual for a Vic house. Do tell.


Are the flight holes recent? What "structural" timbers are these,
floor joists? I don't see how timbers would "support the house"
for this sort of building. If the timbers are not damaged enough
to warrant replacement, the cure is simply to treat them. Most
old houses will have some woodworm - it's "normal".

Just to point out that this is not usually the best course of
treatment in most cases.


Windows
* Windows: wood condition rotting taking effect requires replacing

A good chance for you to assess the report by looking at the windows
yourself, and seeing if they match the report.


* Drip grooves or "throatings" are required to external cills
so as to prevent water seeping back beneath and soaking the
brickwork in the wall adjacent, detaching the plasterwork
within.

Is that problem occurring? If it isnt, it doesnt need doing. Cills
dont always need drip grooves - hence Vics dont always have them. I
have no drip grooves here, dont need them. The rain soak problem can
also be avoided by a very slight slope to the cill underside, or by
paint forming a lip at the front lower edge. Dont break such lips off.


Electrical System
Incoming electrical works at low level (cellar), "thought to be
fairly crude" with loose and old wiring etc. "needs special
attention".

Sounds vague: does it have fuses or MCBs? Wire type? TT and ELCB? etc
etc. How is the rest of the wiring? Rewiring can be a pain if it means
a lot of replastering.


Condensation
Condensation in roof needs to be addressed.

What condensation? Has it affected any roof timbers? This is
likely to be easy to deal with.

Condensation is normal in unfelted Vic slate roofs: the airflow quicly
dries it out, with no problem resulting. Last place I was in water
used to drip down the interior of the slates, but it soon dried. If
the roof is felted then it is an issue, since the ventilation is not
present with such roofs.


Chimney breast/s
Chimney breast removed, require support to be added and
additional ventilation.

Um. Is this on the party wall?

How do you know support is needed unless you open it all up and see
whats there?

Why are surveys so poor?


Regards, NT

Just wanted to quickly post this message to say thank you to all for
your responses and help with this. I'll update later.

Thank you again.

"Richard Faulkner" wrote in message
...
In message , Ian
Stirling writes
Richard Faulkner wrote:

Is it generally possible to hire a surveyor, on the condition that you
want to walk round with him, and have him explain faults, so you
can discuss, rather than just getting a report?

In my experience, they would definitely rather that you werent there.
Mainly because they would get drawn into discussions which would add
substantially to the time taken for the survey.

I have always tried to accompany surveyors; usually not possible for the
reasons Richard states, but it can be incredibly helpful if you manage to
swing it.

Perhaps slightly different circumstances, as it's not a surveyor, but on
Friday I had a structural
engineer take a look at a property I was thinking of buying, and he agreed
to let me accompany him.

The main reason I wanted this report was because the house is currently a
refurbishment which has been abandoned half, and the whole ground floor had
been removed for reinstatement (it is presently just sand/rubble/mess), and
my concern was that there could be 'issues' with this floor.

The bloke duly nosed around, and when it came to the floor, he pointed out
that I'd need to excavate X amount of the rubbish, and provided the ground
was solid below that, then add hardcore, membrane etc etc; the only possible
problem would be if the ground wasn't firm enough, and that would need a
test excavation to ascertain one way or the other. Bummer, I thought, I
still don't really know the answer for sure. "Tell you what", the guy said,
closing the front door, "there's a shovel over there, why not do one now if
you want!" Needing no further encouragement I set to in the middle of the
front room; I had made a small hole just 9" deep and the bottom filled with
water. I put my foot on the shovel to dig down a bit further and it went
straight down; I pushed down further on the handle and it almost disappeared
into the mire (it went down smoothly, in one push, to nearly 30" below floor
level). "Hmm", we thought.

He reckoned there was a conservative 10K's worth of work needed to sort this
out (and more if the whole building needs underpinning as seems likely), so
unless the vendor wants to do some serious renegotation, I'll be walking
away from this one. As the engineer says, it will probably end up getting
flogged to some unscrupulous developer or builder who will just throw down a
normal slab and then do the place up; and will be long gone when it all goes
pear-shaped 2-3 years down the line...

Anyway, my point here was, had I not managed to accompany the engineer, I'd
never have got the valuable info which I did (or at least, not without
shelling out for a separate report/test excavation etc).

David

"N. Thornton" wrote:
Jerry Built wrote
David Phillip wrote:
Woodworm (Cellar) woodworm found to attack structural
timbers supporting the house.

Timbers supporting the house? Unusual for a Vic house. Do tell.

Are the flight holes recent? What "structural" timbers are these,
floor joists? I don't see how timbers would "support the house"
for this sort of building.

I guess we'll just have to wait fon Mr. Phillip to tell us...


If the timbers are not damaged enough
to warrant replacement, the cure is simply to treat them. Most
old houses will have some woodworm - it's "normal".

Just to point out that this is not usually the best course of
treatment in most cases.

Er, why?


J.B.

Jerry Built wrote in message ...
"N. Thornton" wrote:
Jerry Built wrote
David Phillip wrote:

If the timbers are not damaged enough
to warrant replacement, the cure is simply to treat them. Most
old houses will have some woodworm - it's "normal".

Just to point out that this is not usually the best course of
treatment in most cases.

Er, why?

http://www.onthelevel.in-uk.com/timber-treatment.htm

Regards, NT