Came across a car being charged in the street yesterday. H&S well taken
care of - large rubber mats covering the cable and small traffic cones
either end. Impressed. Until I looked at how it was fed. Long 13 amp
extension from the house with a big coil at the end, and a 4 way 13 amp
socket strip, with the car lead plugged into it. At least it wasn't
raining then.

House had a basement, and a light to the exterior stairs recently added by
the shiny conduit. But no dedicated charger point.

--
*Organized Crime Is Alive And Well; It's Called Auto Insurance.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 17/03/2020 11:14, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Came across a car being charged in the street yesterday. H&S well taken
care of - large rubber mats covering the cable and small traffic cones
either end. Impressed. Until I looked at how it was fed. Long 13 amp
extension from the house with a big coil at the end, and a 4 way 13 amp
socket strip, with the car lead plugged into it. At least it wasn't
raining then.

House had a basement, and a light to the exterior stairs recently added by
the shiny conduit. But no dedicated charger point.

saw one out front of terraced housed the other day fed with a cable from
an upstairs window over the pavement to a pole then down into the car
.... is that legal ?...

On 17/03/2020 11:14, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Came across a car being charged in the street yesterday. H&S well taken
care of - large rubber mats covering the cable and small traffic cones
either end. Impressed. Until I looked at how it was fed. Long 13 amp
extension from the house with a big coil at the end, and a 4 way 13 amp
socket strip, with the car lead plugged into it. At least it wasn't
raining then.

House had a basement, and a light to the exterior stairs recently added by
the shiny conduit. But no dedicated charger point.


I came across a G-whizz? being charged like this on the road next to
a mansion block in Hammersmith. A series of extension cords came down
from a first floor flat front window, to a pole at the bottom of the
steps going up to the ground floor, then across the pavement at about
6 foot high, then duck taped to a lighting pole and down to the car.

Wish I had taken a photo.

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 17/03/2020 11:14, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Came across a car being charged in the street yesterday. H&S well taken
care of - large rubber mats covering the cable and small traffic cones
either end. Impressed. Until I looked at how it was fed. Long 13 amp
extension from the house with a big coil at the end, and a 4 way 13 amp
socket strip, with the car lead plugged into it. At least it wasn't
raining then.

House had a basement, and a light to the exterior stairs recently added
by
the shiny conduit. But no dedicated charger point.


I came across a G-whizz? being charged like this on the road next to
a mansion block in Hammersmith. A series of extension cords came down
from a first floor flat front window, to a pole at the bottom of the
steps going up to the ground floor, then across the pavement at about
6 foot high, then duck taped to a lighting pole and down to the car.

Wish I had taken a photo.


This is the problem with electric cars when you don't have your own drive
but must park at the side of street and then get power from the house.
No-one wants to park a long way from their house, wherever there happens to
be a free charging point, and then walk home from there and then walk back
when their car is fully charged.

Part of the problem is that the dedicated charging cable is usually fairly
short, so there will always need to be a trailing 3-pin socket that this
lead is plugged into, even if the long extension lead has no further
junctions until it is inside the house. I suppose one way is to put the
extension socket inside the car, with its lead and the car's charging lead
going through a crack in the window, but that's not very rainproof and
certainly not secure against theft.

The alternative is to get a very long lead with the car's charging socket
(*) on one end and the other end long enough to plug into a wall socket
inside the house, then there are no junctions out in the rain. You still
need to arrange the lead so it isn't a trip hazard if it crosses a pavement.
Even if the lead is on your own drive, you need to make sure the postman etc
doesn't trip over it.

I presume the plug on the car has a way of securing the socket on the
charging lead so it can't be maliciously unplugged. That will be a
significant problem: drunks late at night think it's "funny" to unplug cars
so they are not fully charged for their owners to use them in the morning.


(*) I use "plug" and socket" to refer to the male end (with protruding pins)
and the female end (with receptacles to accommodate those pins). The end
that is connected to the mains always needs to be a socket, to avoid
accidental contact with live pins. I once borrowed my grandpa's electric
mower which had pair of flat three-in-a-row plug-and-socket, to attach the
long cable to the short one on the mower. I unplugged it to untangle the
cable and found it was wired the wrong way round, with the live pins
exposed, so I rewired it with the socket on the mains end and the plug on
the mower end - and kept quiet about it to spare his blushes.

NY wrote:
This is the problem with electric cars when you don't have your own drive
but must park at the side of street and then get power from the house.
No-one wants to park a long way from their house, wherever there happens to
be a free charging point, and then walk home from there and then walk back
when their car is fully charged.

This is all very silly when all they can get out of their string of
extension cables is 13A, and possibly only 720W if they were obeying what it
says as the capacity of wound extension reels (which they probably aren't).

We already have a solution for this - it's what happens with dropped kerbs.
If you want a dropped kerb outside your house you ask the council for
permission, pay the fee, their contractor comes and makes it for you.

You could imagine the same principle for charge points - apply to the
council, council electrician comes and installs approved charge point in the
road, wired in to your electricity supply, council makes good the pavement.
You get a proper 32A (or whatever) fast charging point outside your house.

Such charge points could for example be billed separately to your home
electricity supply, and maybe you could agree to other people using them for
some cut of the proceeds. You could then enrol them in a public charging
network. And then maybe it wouldn't matter if your space was full, because
you could park a few doors down and use their point on the same network.

This would seem more efficient than trying to run off the 'lamp post' supply
that only has a few amps capacity. Maybe they can load balance, so when you
run the oven, tumble drier, electric shower and GSHP all together the car
scales back its charge rate to avoid overloading the supply incomer.

Theo

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Came across a car being charged in the street yesterday. H&S well taken
care of - large rubber mats covering the cable and small traffic cones
either end. Impressed. Until I looked at how it was fed. Long 13 amp
extension from the house with a big coil at the end, and a 4 way 13 amp
socket strip, with the car lead plugged into it. At least it wasn't
raining then.

House had a basement, and a light to the exterior stairs recently added by
the shiny conduit. But no dedicated charger point.


Not all chargers require a dedicate charger point.

Ours came with a charger which plugs into a normal 13A socket. In fact, it
is the one I nearly always use. We also got a free, dedicated, charger (
including installation) - fund by some Gov scheme.

The included charge takes longer but the car has a timer and I set it to
charge in the Economy 7 slot. I use could use a normal socket but I have a
radial with just one socket which was installed for something else and use
that.

If I need a quicker charge, Id use the other one.

AFAIK, most cars you can charge come with at least a slow charger.


Of course, plugging them into long extensions etc is more than unwise.

In article , Theo
wrote:
NY wrote:
This is the problem with electric cars when you don't have your own
drive but must park at the side of street and then get power from the
house. No-one wants to park a long way from their house, wherever
there happens to be a free charging point, and then walk home from
there and then walk back when their car is fully charged.

This is all very silly when all they can get out of their string of
extension cables is 13A, and possibly only 720W if they were obeying what
it says as the capacity of wound extension reels (which they probably
aren't).

We already have a solution for this - it's what happens with dropped
kerbs. If you want a dropped kerb outside your house you ask the council
for permission, pay the fee, their contractor comes and makes it for you.

You could imagine the same principle for charge points - apply to the
council, council electrician comes and installs approved charge point in
the road, wired in to your electricity supply, council makes good the
pavement. You get a proper 32A (or whatever) fast charging point outside
your house.

But you don't have a reserved parking space outside your house.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Came across a car being charged in the street yesterday. H&S well taken
care of - large rubber mats covering the cable and small traffic cones
either end. Impressed. Until I looked at how it was fed. Long 13 amp
extension from the house with a big coil at the end, and a 4 way 13 amp
socket strip, with the car lead plugged into it. At least it wasn't
raining then.

House had a basement, and a light to the exterior stairs recently added by
the shiny conduit. But no dedicated charger point.


Not all chargers require a dedicate charger point.

Ours came with a charger which plugs into a normal 13A socket. In fact, it
is the one I nearly always use. We also got a free, dedicated, charger (
including installation) - fund by some Gov scheme.

The included charge takes longer but the car has a timer and I set it to
charge in the Economy 7 slot. I use could use a normal socket but I have a
radial with just one socket which was installed for something else and use
that.

If I need a quicker charge, I‘d use the other one.

AFAIK, most cars you can charge come with at least a slow charger.


Of course, plugging them into long extensions etc is more than unwise.

trip hazard - Fire hazard

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 17/03/2020 14:39, Brian Reay wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Came across a car being charged in the street yesterday. H&S well taken
care of - large rubber mats covering the cable and small traffic cones
either end. Impressed. Until I looked at how it was fed. Long 13 amp
extension from the house with a big coil at the end, and a 4 way 13 amp
socket strip, with the car lead plugged into it. At least it wasn't
raining then.

House had a basement, and a light to the exterior stairs recently added by
the shiny conduit. But no dedicated charger point.


Not all chargers require a dedicate charger point.

Ours came with a charger which plugs into a normal 13A socket. In fact, it
is the one I nearly always use. We also got a free, dedicated, charger (
including installation) - fund by some Gov scheme.

The included charge takes longer but the car has a timer and I set it to
charge in the Economy 7 slot. I use could use a normal socket but I have a
radial with just one socket which was installed for something else and use
that.

If I need a quicker charge, Id use the other one.

AFAIK, most cars you can charge come with at least a slow charger.


Of course, plugging them into long extensions etc is more than unwise.





many amps do they take on 230 v ? ...

Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 17/03/2020 14:39, Brian Reay wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Came across a car being charged in the street yesterday. H&S well taken
care of - large rubber mats covering the cable and small traffic cones
either end. Impressed. Until I looked at how it was fed. Long 13 amp
extension from the house with a big coil at the end, and a 4 way 13 amp
socket strip, with the car lead plugged into it. At least it wasn't
raining then.

House had a basement, and a light to the exterior stairs recently added by
the shiny conduit. But no dedicated charger point.


Not all chargers require a dedicate charger point.

Ours came with a charger which plugs into a normal 13A socket. In fact, it
is the one I nearly always use. We also got a free, dedicated, charger (
including installation) - fund by some Gov scheme.

The included charge takes longer but the car has a timer and I set it to
charge in the Economy 7 slot. I use could use a normal socket but I have a
radial with just one socket which was installed for something else and use
that.

If I need a quicker charge, Id use the other one.

AFAIK, most cars you can charge come with at least a slow charger.


Of course, plugging them into long extensions etc is more than unwise.





many amps do they take on 230 v ? ...


Good question but I cant recall the details.

The slow one uses a 13A fuse, so probably under that. I have 10A in mind
but Im not sure.

Im pretty sure the MCB on the dedicated charger is 16A .

On 17/03/2020 14:21, Theo wrote:
NY wrote:
This is the problem with electric cars when you don't have your own drive
but must park at the side of street and then get power from the house.
No-one wants to park a long way from their house, wherever there happens to
be a free charging point, and then walk home from there and then walk back
when their car is fully charged.

This is all very silly when all they can get out of their string of
extension cables is 13A, and possibly only 720W if they were obeying what it
says as the capacity of wound extension reels (which they probably aren't).

Most of the bundled charge leads deliberately limit the current to
around 10A or so. Not sure what they do if they see loads of voltage
drop on the supply though.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 17/03/2020 15:22, Brian Reay wrote:
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 17/03/2020 14:39, Brian Reay wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Came across a car being charged in the street yesterday. H&S well taken
care of - large rubber mats covering the cable and small traffic cones
either end. Impressed. Until I looked at how it was fed. Long 13 amp
extension from the house with a big coil at the end, and a 4 way 13 amp
socket strip, with the car lead plugged into it. At least it wasn't
raining then.

House had a basement, and a light to the exterior stairs recently added by
the shiny conduit. But no dedicated charger point.


Not all chargers require a dedicate charger point.

Ours came with a charger which plugs into a normal 13A socket. In fact, it
is the one I nearly always use. We also got a free, dedicated, charger (
including installation) - fund by some Gov scheme.

The included charge takes longer but the car has a timer and I set it to
charge in the Economy 7 slot. I use could use a normal socket but I have a
radial with just one socket which was installed for something else and use
that.

If I need a quicker charge, Id use the other one.

AFAIK, most cars you can charge come with at least a slow charger.


Of course, plugging them into long extensions etc is more than unwise.





many amps do they take on 230 v ? ...


Good question but I cant recall the details.

The slow one uses a 13A fuse, so probably under that. I have 10A in mind
but Im not sure.

Im pretty sure the MCB on the dedicated charger is 16A .



must be a lot of amps to give so many kilowatts ..

On 17/03/2020 15:02, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 17/03/2020 14:39, Brian Reay wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Came across a car being charged in the street yesterday. H&S well taken
care of - large rubber mats covering the cable and small traffic cones
either end. Impressed. Until I looked at how it was fed. Long 13 amp
extension from the house with a big coil at the end, and a 4 way 13 amp
socket strip, with the car lead plugged into it. At least it wasn't
raining then.

House had a basement, and a light to the exterior stairs recently
added by
the shiny conduit. But no dedicated charger point.


Not all chargers require a dedicate charger point.

Ours came with a charger which plugs into a normal 13A socket.Â* In
fact, it
is the one I nearly always use. We also got a free, dedicated, charger (
including installation) - fund by some Gov scheme.

The included charge takes longer but the car has a timer and I set it to
charge in the Economy 7 slot. I use could use a normal socket but I
have a
radial with just one socket which was installed for something else and
use
that.

If I need a quicker charge, Id use the other one.

AFAIK, most cars you can charge come with at least a slow charger.


Of course, plugging them into long extensions etc is more than unwise.





many amps do they take on 230 v ? ...

My old Leaf takes about 10A using the slow charger (on a long extension
lead).

I'd have thought apart from anything else charging like that would be slow
costly and as you say, dangerous.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
Came across a car being charged in the street yesterday. H&S well taken
care of - large rubber mats covering the cable and small traffic cones
either end. Impressed. Until I looked at how it was fed. Long 13 amp
extension from the house with a big coil at the end, and a 4 way 13 amp
socket strip, with the car lead plugged into it. At least it wasn't
raining then.

House had a basement, and a light to the exterior stairs recently added by
the shiny conduit. But no dedicated charger point.

--
*Organized Crime Is Alive And Well; It's Called Auto Insurance.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 17/03/2020 15:51, Grumps wrote:
On 17/03/2020 15:02, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 17/03/2020 14:39, Brian Reay wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Came across a car being charged in the street yesterday. H&S well taken
care of - large rubber mats covering the cable and small traffic cones
either end. Impressed. Until I looked at how it was fed. Long 13 amp
extension from the house with a big coil at the end, and a 4 way 13 amp
socket strip, with the car lead plugged into it. At least it wasn't
raining then.

House had a basement, and a light to the exterior stairs recently
added by
the shiny conduit. But no dedicated charger point.


Not all chargers require a dedicate charger point.

Ours came with a charger which plugs into a normal 13A socket.Â* In
fact, it
is the one I nearly always use. We also got a free, dedicated, charger (
including installation) - fund by some Gov scheme.

The included charge takes longer but the car has a timer and I set it to
charge in the Economy 7 slot. I use could use a normal socket but I
have a
radial with just one socket which was installed for something else
and use
that.

If I need a quicker charge, Id use the other one.

AFAIK, most cars you can charge come with at least a slow charger.


Of course, plugging them into long extensions etc is more than unwise.





many amps do they take on 230 v ? ...

My old Leaf takes about 10A using the slow charger (on a long extension
lead).
that is a lot wouldn't like to cobble together a few plug in extensions
feeding that ...

charles wrote:
In article , Theo
wrote:
We already have a solution for this - it's what happens with dropped
kerbs. If you want a dropped kerb outside your house you ask the council
for permission, pay the fee, their contractor comes and makes it for you.

You could imagine the same principle for charge points - apply to the
council, council electrician comes and installs approved charge point in
the road, wired in to your electricity supply, council makes good the
pavement. You get a proper 32A (or whatever) fast charging point outside
your house.

But you don't have a reserved parking space outside your house.

But you do get a reserved space outside your house if you get a dropped kerb
installed. OK you aren't supposed to park on it, but it is effectively
reserved for your use (to come and go to your drive) - people aren't allowed
to park in it and so it reserves a little bit of your street.

The issue of 'reserving' a bit of public infrastructure for your sole use
would go away if the charging points were on a public charging network as it
wouldn't be your reserved space any more.

Theo

In article , Theo
wrote:
charles wrote:
In article , Theo
wrote:
We already have a solution for this - it's what happens with dropped
kerbs. If you want a dropped kerb outside your house you ask the
council for permission, pay the fee, their contractor comes and makes
it for you.

You could imagine the same principle for charge points - apply to the
council, council electrician comes and installs approved charge point
in the road, wired in to your electricity supply, council makes good
the pavement. You get a proper 32A (or whatever) fast charging point
outside your house.

But you don't have a reserved parking space outside your house.

But you do get a reserved space outside your house if you get a dropped
kerb installed. OK you aren't supposed to park on it, but it is
effectively reserved for your use (to come and go to your drive) - people
aren't allowed to park in it and so it reserves a little bit of your
street.

not so.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , Theo
wrote:
charles wrote:
In article , Theo
wrote:
We already have a solution for this - it's what happens with dropped
kerbs. If you want a dropped kerb outside your house you ask the
council for permission, pay the fee, their contractor comes and makes
it for you.

You could imagine the same principle for charge points - apply to the
council, council electrician comes and installs approved charge point
in the road, wired in to your electricity supply, council makes good
the pavement. You get a proper 32A (or whatever) fast charging point
outside your house.

But you don't have a reserved parking space outside your house.

But you do get a reserved space outside your house if you get a dropped
kerb installed. OK you aren't supposed to park on it, but it is
effectively reserved for your use (to come and go to your drive) - people
aren't allowed to park in it and so it reserves a little bit of your
street.

not so.

Indeed not. The people who aren't allowed to park on it includes
you. As dropped kerbs aren't associated with particular car
registrations or keepers only with the addresses where they're located.
Which isn't to say this isn't regularly flouted as in streets
without other restrictions, parking wardens would probably only
show up as the result of a complaint from the person with the
dropped kerb

michael adams

....

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 18/03/2020 08:52, michael adams wrote:
"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , Theo
wrote:
charles wrote:
In article , Theo
wrote:
We already have a solution for this - it's what happens with dropped
kerbs. If you want a dropped kerb outside your house you ask the
council for permission, pay the fee, their contractor comes and makes
it for you.

You could imagine the same principle for charge points - apply to the
council, council electrician comes and installs approved charge point
in the road, wired in to your electricity supply, council makes good
the pavement. You get a proper 32A (or whatever) fast charging point
outside your house.

But you don't have a reserved parking space outside your house.

But you do get a reserved space outside your house if you get a dropped
kerb installed. OK you aren't supposed to park on it, but it is
effectively reserved for your use (to come and go to your drive) - people
aren't allowed to park in it and so it reserves a little bit of your
street.

not so.

Indeed not. The people who aren't allowed to park on it includes
you. As dropped kerbs aren't associated with particular car
registrations or keepers only with the addresses where they're located.
Which isn't to say this isn't regularly flouted as in streets
without other restrictions, parking wardens would probably only
show up as the result of a complaint from the person with the
dropped kerb

michael adams

I have had somebody park in my driveway before

michael adams wrote:

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , Theo
wrote:
But you do get a reserved space outside your house if you get a dropped
kerb installed. OK you aren't supposed to park on it, but it is
effectively reserved for your use (to come and go to your drive) - people
aren't allowed to park in it and so it reserves a little bit of your
street.

not so.

Indeed not. The people who aren't allowed to park on it includes
you. As dropped kerbs aren't associated with particular car
registrations or keepers only with the addresses where they're located.
Which isn't to say this isn't regularly flouted as in streets
without other restrictions, parking wardens would probably only
show up as the result of a complaint from the person with the
dropped kerb

You aren't allowed to park on it, but it is constructed for the sole use to
enter your property. It isn't reserved for you, Mr J. Bloggs, but it's
reserved to allow entrance of the property 99 Acacia Avenue, whose sole
resident happens to be Mr J. Bloggs. The law is different, but the end
result is the same.

My point being we've already have precedent for the principle of reserving a
piece of public street for a particular property (not an individual), and a
similar programme for charging points wouldn't be a major stretch.

Theo

"Theo" wrote in message
...
Indeed not. The people who aren't allowed to park on it includes
you. As dropped kerbs aren't associated with particular car
registrations or keepers only with the addresses where they're located.
Which isn't to say this isn't regularly flouted as in streets
without other restrictions, parking wardens would probably only
show up as the result of a complaint from the person with the
dropped kerb

You aren't allowed to park on it, but it is constructed for the sole use
to
enter your property. It isn't reserved for you, Mr J. Bloggs, but it's
reserved to allow entrance of the property 99 Acacia Avenue, whose sole
resident happens to be Mr J. Bloggs. The law is different, but the end
result is the same.

My point being we've already have precedent for the principle of reserving
a
piece of public street for a particular property (not an individual), and
a
similar programme for charging points wouldn't be a major stretch.

I hadn't realised that the owner of a house isn't allowed to park (or let
vistors park) across the end of his drive if it has a dropped kerb. I know
that no-one is supposed to park where it causes an obstruction - and parking
across a drive definitely obstructs access - but I always thought that the
owner of the house that was obstructed was a special case to whom the
restriction didn't apply.

I know that no-one has exclusive right to park on the road outside the house
(ie either side of the drive access), and that it is a free-for-all: anyone
can park there unless parking is prohibited to everyone.

What are the rules about "residents only" parking? Does that include
visitors to the house, or are they supposed to park further down the street
on in the next street, if there is no space for their car on the owner's
drive? I remember going to visit someone in the centre of Oxford and they
warned me that I would need to phone to give a precise ETA (eg phone from
just round the corner) so the person I was visiting could be standing
outside to give me a visitor's permit as soon as I pulled up, because the
traffic wardens had been known to ticket people in the few seconds it took
to get out of the car, go the house, be given the permit and walk back to
display it in the car.

"Theo" wrote in message
...
michael adams wrote:

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , Theo
wrote:
But you do get a reserved space outside your house if you get a dropped
kerb installed. OK you aren't supposed to park on it, but it is
effectively reserved for your use (to come and go to your drive) - people
aren't allowed to park in it and so it reserves a little bit of your
street.

not so.

Indeed not. The people who aren't allowed to park on it includes
you. As dropped kerbs aren't associated with particular car
registrations or keepers only with the addresses where they're located.
Which isn't to say this isn't regularly flouted as in streets
without other restrictions, parking wardens would probably only
show up as the result of a complaint from the person with the
dropped kerb

You aren't allowed to park on it, but it is constructed for the sole use to
enter your property.

The dropped kerb is. But that part of the road isn't. Allowing people
to park anywhere on a public road is a concession. All of that road
belongs, and always will belong to the council or whoever. They may
if they see fit, restrict parking on their roads for whatever reason
they wish - including that of not blocking a dropped kerb as applied
and paid for by a householder - but that restriction by the council
on their road doesn't confer any additional rights on anyone to
make use of that piece of road for any purpose whatsoever..

It isn't reserved for you, Mr J. Bloggs, but it's
reserved to allow entrance of the property 99 Acacia Avenue, whose sole
resident happens to be Mr J. Bloggs. The law is different, but the end
result is the same.

My point being we've already have precedent for the principle of reserving a
piece of public street for a particular property (not an individual), and a
similar programme for charging points wouldn't be a major stretch.

It would be for the reason stated above. Preventing people parking outside
a property doesn't confer any rights on anyone; it merely removes a
concession of allowing people to park their cars on roads, or parts of
roads which have never belonged to them.

Doubtless in these straitened times Councils will eventually come up
with schemes covering all such eventualities - for an exorbitant
annual charge to be decided on at the time.


michael adams

....


michael adams

....




Theo

Correction : contrary to what is stated below the dropped kerb
isn't the householders property either, despite the fact he or she
paid the Council to make the necessary modifications. It would
however enhance the value of the property assuming the Council
aren't allowed to dig it up. As they are bodies in (some?)
Council owned Cemeteries after a certain number of years, as I
learned only the other day. Apparently not all burial plots
are bought in perpetuity contrary to what some people might
think.




"michael adams" wrote in message
...

"Theo" wrote in message
...
michael adams wrote:

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , Theo
wrote:
But you do get a reserved space outside your house if you get a dropped
kerb installed. OK you aren't supposed to park on it, but it is
effectively reserved for your use (to come and go to your drive) - people
aren't allowed to park in it and so it reserves a little bit of your
street.

not so.

Indeed not. The people who aren't allowed to park on it includes
you. As dropped kerbs aren't associated with particular car
registrations or keepers only with the addresses where they're located.
Which isn't to say this isn't regularly flouted as in streets
without other restrictions, parking wardens would probably only
show up as the result of a complaint from the person with the
dropped kerb

You aren't allowed to park on it, but it is constructed for the sole use to
enter your property.

The dropped kerb is. But that part of the road isn't. Allowing people
to park anywhere on a public road is a concession. All of that road
belongs, and always will belong to the council or whoever. They may
if they see fit, restrict parking on their roads for whatever reason
they wish - including that of not blocking a dropped kerb as applied
and paid for by a householder - but that restriction by the council
on their road doesn't confer any additional rights on anyone to
make use of that piece of road for any purpose whatsoever..

It isn't reserved for you, Mr J. Bloggs, but it's
reserved to allow entrance of the property 99 Acacia Avenue, whose sole
resident happens to be Mr J. Bloggs. The law is different, but the end
result is the same.

My point being we've already have precedent for the principle of reserving a
piece of public street for a particular property (not an individual), and a
similar programme for charging points wouldn't be a major stretch.

It would be for the reason stated above. Preventing people parking outside
a property doesn't confer any rights on anyone; it merely removes a
concession of allowing people to park their cars on roads, or parts of
roads which have never belonged to them.

Doubtless in these straitened times Councils will eventually come up
with schemes covering all such eventualities - for an exorbitant
annual charge to be decided on at the time.


michael adams

...

In article ,
Theo wrote:
charles wrote:
In article , Theo
wrote:
We already have a solution for this - it's what happens with dropped
kerbs. If you want a dropped kerb outside your house you ask the
council for permission, pay the fee, their contractor comes and
makes it for you.

You could imagine the same principle for charge points - apply to
the council, council electrician comes and installs approved charge
point in the road, wired in to your electricity supply, council
makes good the pavement. You get a proper 32A (or whatever) fast
charging point outside your house.

But you don't have a reserved parking space outside your house.

But you do get a reserved space outside your house if you get a dropped
kerb installed. OK you aren't supposed to park on it, but it is
effectively reserved for your use (to come and go to your drive) -
people aren't allowed to park in it and so it reserves a little bit of
your street.

If you have a driveway, why would you park on the street?

The issue of 'reserving' a bit of public infrastructure for your sole
use would go away if the charging points were on a public charging
network as it wouldn't be your reserved space any more.

At one time, there were parking meters at every bay where anyone could
park. Not going to cost that much more to do the same with charging points?

--
*This message has been ROT-13 encrypted twice for extra security *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 18/03/2020 13:55, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Theo wrote:
charles wrote:
In article , Theo
wrote:
We already have a solution for this - it's what happens with dropped
kerbs. If you want a dropped kerb outside your house you ask the
council for permission, pay the fee, their contractor comes and
makes it for you.

You could imagine the same principle for charge points - apply to
the council, council electrician comes and installs approved charge
point in the road, wired in to your electricity supply, council
makes good the pavement. You get a proper 32A (or whatever) fast
charging point outside your house.

But you don't have a reserved parking space outside your house.

But you do get a reserved space outside your house if you get a dropped
kerb installed. OK you aren't supposed to park on it, but it is
effectively reserved for your use (to come and go to your drive) -
people aren't allowed to park in it and so it reserves a little bit of
your street.

If you have a driveway, why would you park on the street?

The issue of 'reserving' a bit of public infrastructure for your sole
use would go away if the charging points were on a public charging
network as it wouldn't be your reserved space any more.

At one time, there were parking meters at every bay where anyone could
park. Not going to cost that much more to do the same with charging points?

but they were clockwork ...

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,

But you do get a reserved space outside your house if you get a dropped
kerb installed. OK you aren't supposed to park on it, but it is
effectively reserved for your use (to come and go to your drive) -
people aren't allowed to park in it and so it reserves a little bit of
your street.

If you have a driveway, why would you park on the street?

Because there are more vehicles at the property than will fit on
the drive?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
@ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

On 18/03/2020 14:14, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 18/03/2020 13:55, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Theo wrote:
charles wrote:
In article , Theo
wrote:
We already have a solution for this - it's what happens with dropped
kerbs. If you want a dropped kerb outside your house you ask the
council for permission, pay the fee, their contractor comes and
makes it for you.

You could imagine the same principle for charge points - apply to
the council, council electrician comes and installs approved charge
point in the road, wired in to your electricity supply, council
makes good the pavement. You get a proper 32A (or whatever) fast
charging point outside your house.

But you don't have a reserved parking space outside your house.

But you do get a reserved space outside your house if you get a dropped
kerb installed.Â* OK you aren't supposed to park on it, but it is
effectively reserved for your use (to come and go to your drive) -
people aren't allowed to park in it and so it reserves a little bit of
your street.

If you have a driveway, why would you park on the street?

The issue of 'reserving' a bit of public infrastructure for your sole
use would go away if the charging points were on a public charging
network as it wouldn't be your reserved space any more.

At one time, there were parking meters at every bay where anyone could
park. Not going to cost that much more to do the same with charging
points?

but they were clockwork ...
I remember stealing one a lorry had hit off in 1971....full of shillings

On 18/03/2020 14:15, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,

But you do get a reserved space outside your house if you get a dropped
kerb installed. OK you aren't supposed to park on it, but it is
effectively reserved for your use (to come and go to your drive) -
people aren't allowed to park in it and so it reserves a little bit of
your street.

If you have a driveway, why would you park on the street?

Because there are more vehicles at the property than will fit on
the drive?

Chris

I have a double garage. I measured the new car. It's too wide to fit
either side.

--
Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have
guns, why should we let them have ideas?

Josef Stalin

In message , at 14:21:43 on Tue,
17 Mar 2020, Theo remarked:
NY wrote:
This is the problem with electric cars when you don't have your own drive
but must park at the side of street and then get power from the house.
No-one wants to park a long way from their house, wherever there happens to
be a free charging point, and then walk home from there and then walk back
when their car is fully charged.

This is all very silly when all they can get out of their string of
extension cables is 13A, and possibly only 720W if they were obeying what it
says as the capacity of wound extension reels (which they probably aren't).

We already have a solution for this - it's what happens with dropped kerbs.
If you want a dropped kerb outside your house you ask the council for
permission, pay the fee, their contractor comes and makes it for you.

You could imagine the same principle for charge points - apply to the
council, council electrician comes and installs approved charge point in the
road, wired in to your electricity supply, council makes good the pavement.
You get a proper 32A (or whatever) fast charging point outside your house.

Not so clever when you have a 60A main fuse.

Maybe they can load balance, so when you run the oven, tumble drier,
electric shower and GSHP all together the car scales back its charge
rate to avoid overloading the supply incomer.

A big maybe.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 08:52:29 on Wed, 18 Mar
2020, michael adams remarked:
But you do get a reserved space outside your house if you get a dropped
kerb installed. OK you aren't supposed to park on it, but it is
effectively reserved for your use (to come and go to your drive) - people
aren't allowed to park in it and so it reserves a little bit of your
street.

not so.

Indeed not. The people who aren't allowed to park on it includes
you.

It includes anyone with the householder's permission.
--
Roland Perry

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
I have a double garage. I measured the new car. It's too wide to fit
either side.

It doesn't help that many so-called double garages are just two single
garages joined together - ie they still have single-garage apertures and
separate doors, with a huge pillar between, rather than a double-width
aperture and door. I suppose the advantage of two singles is that the doors
are not as heavy (though any reputable garage door should have its weight
almost compensated by springs or counterweights) and they can use two
shorter RSJs rather than one longer RSJ - at the expense of losing the
advantage of having a double garage.

At my last house, there were two garage blocks, allocated to different
houses in the development. The other block was fine, but my garage was
barely wide enough to fit my car (a Peugeot 306, so not as wide as many
cars) and the doorway was about 20 mm wider than the car on each side, which
made it almost impossible to drive the car through without the risk of
scraping the side of it. One guy had an old-style Mini (ie not the modern
BMW clone which is wider) and he was the only person in our block to use his
garage for storing his car, and he said it was a tight fit.

If the builders had added an extra metre to the width of the garage block
(*), it would have widened all the doorways by 250 mm - enough for the
garages to be usable. As it is, they were used as overflow loft space.


(*) There was space between the end of the block and the access road to do
this.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/03/2020 14:15, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,

But you do get a reserved space outside your house if you get a dropped
kerb installed. OK you aren't supposed to park on it, but it is
effectively reserved for your use (to come and go to your drive) -
people aren't allowed to park in it and so it reserves a little bit of
your street.

If you have a driveway, why would you park on the street?

Because there are more vehicles at the property than will fit on
the drive?

Chris

I have a double garage. I measured the new car. It's too wide to fit
either side.

Change the door to a big up and over.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:21:43 on Tue,
17 Mar 2020, Theo remarked:
NY wrote:
This is the problem with electric cars when you don't have your own drive
but must park at the side of street and then get power from the house.
No-one wants to park a long way from their house, wherever there happens to
be a free charging point, and then walk home from there and then walk back
when their car is fully charged.

This is all very silly when all they can get out of their string of
extension cables is 13A, and possibly only 720W if they were obeying what it
says as the capacity of wound extension reels (which they probably aren't).

We already have a solution for this - it's what happens with dropped kerbs.
If you want a dropped kerb outside your house you ask the council for
permission, pay the fee, their contractor comes and makes it for you.

You could imagine the same principle for charge points - apply to the
council, council electrician comes and installs approved charge point in the
road, wired in to your electricity supply, council makes good the pavement.
You get a proper 32A (or whatever) fast charging point outside your house.

Not so clever when you have a 60A main fuse.


Provided your €˜tails ( the cables from the incomer (main cable) to the
meter and meter to consumer unit) are 25mm, the power company will upgrade
you to 100A free.

There is a page on the website, you pop in some basic details, book a date,
someone turns up, does the swap, job done. Unbelievably efficient.

The two chaps who did mine were great, they commented on my earth bonding,
which led to an interesting chat re how much of they work was involved in
changing earths to PME and a few other things. Even did an Earth check. All
for a cup of coffee and chocolate biscuits.

charles wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/03/2020 14:15, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,

But you do get a reserved space outside your house if you get a dropped
kerb installed. OK you aren't supposed to park on it, but it is
effectively reserved for your use (to come and go to your drive) -
people aren't allowed to park in it and so it reserves a little bit of
your street.

If you have a driveway, why would you park on the street?

Because there are more vehicles at the property than will fit on
the drive?

Chris

I have a double garage. I measured the new car. It's too wide to fit
either side.

Change the door to a big up and over.


Better still, an electric roller door. Much more convenient.

"Roland Perry" wrote in message ...
In message , at 08:52:29 on Wed, 18 Mar 2020, michael adams
remarked:
But you do get a reserved space outside your house if you get a dropped
kerb installed. OK you aren't supposed to park on it, but it is
effectively reserved for your use (to come and go to your drive) - people
aren't allowed to park in it and so it reserves a little bit of your
street.

not so.

Indeed not. The people who aren't allowed to park on it includes
you.

It includes anyone with the householder's permission.

What's being talked about AFAIAA, is the section of public
road on which the concession the Council makes in allowing
people to park their cars on the Councils property is
suspended by way of a parking restriction.
What anyone does on the householder's side of the dropped
kerb is, as you say, the householders business.
This has been a hot topic* in my locality of late with tradesmen
attempting to park their vans on the empty drives of properties
with dropped kerbs, in areas covered by extensive parking
restrictions.


michael adams

....

NY wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
I have a double garage. I measured the new car. It's too wide to fit
either side.

It doesn't help that many so-called double garages are just two single
garages joined together

When I moved here, over 30 years ago (1), I thought that the nice
large garage with sliding segmented door would be great.

However, when I checked the measurements, it wasn't long enough
for my Volvo 240 :-(

https://goo.gl/maps/UXEMye5X1Lnd1WpN6

(1) Only stayed for 2 years

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
@ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

On 18/03/2020 15:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/03/2020 14:15, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,

But you do get a reserved space outside your house if you get a dropped
kerb installed.Â* OK you aren't supposed to park on it, but it is
effectively reserved for your use (to come and go to your drive) -
people aren't allowed to park in it and so it reserves a little bit of
your street.

If you have a driveway, why would you park on the street?

Because there are more vehicles at the property than will fit on
the drive?

Chris

I have a double garage. I measured the new car. It's too wide to fit
either side.

just sleep in it ...

On 18/03/2020 15:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/03/2020 14:15, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,

But you do get a reserved space outside your house if you get a dropped
kerb installed.Â* OK you aren't supposed to park on it, but it is
effectively reserved for your use (to come and go to your drive) -
people aren't allowed to park in it and so it reserves a little bit of
your street.

If you have a driveway, why would you park on the street?

Because there are more vehicles at the property than will fit on
the drive?

Chris

I have a double garage. I measured the new car. It's too wide to fit
either side.

every Mustang I have bought has been longer than the last one....had to
move my garage door to the outside leaf for the last one ...

On 18/03/2020 16:10, Brian Reay wrote:
charles wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/03/2020 14:15, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,

But you do get a reserved space outside your house if you get a dropped
kerb installed. OK you aren't supposed to park on it, but it is
effectively reserved for your use (to come and go to your drive) -
people aren't allowed to park in it and so it reserves a little bit of
your street.

If you have a driveway, why would you park on the street?

Because there are more vehicles at the property than will fit on
the drive?

Chris

I have a double garage. I measured the new car. It's too wide to fit
either side.

Change the door to a big up and over.


Better still, an electric roller door. Much more convenient.

certainly is brian...love my new one

On 17/03/2020 23:01, Theo wrote:

But you don't have a reserved parking space outside your house.

But you do get a reserved space outside your house if you get a dropped kerb
installed.

A drop kerb without a drive behind it wouldn't stop people parking. The
council won't allow a drop kerb unless it accesses a drive.

Bill