Memory lane ...
I first posted here before uk.d-i-y existed, when it was just a topic in uk..misc
And then posted regularly on the newsgroup for several years as I was doing up my medieval farmhouse in Suffolk. I still recognise a few names from back then theskullster, R D S, Dave Plowman, John Rumm, The Natural Philsopher all look familiar. Others too. Hello!

One of the things I always enjoyed about UK.d-i-y was the breadth of independent thought and that has brought me back (to google groups this time) with a question to punt in the air

What do you think of LED downlighters? As a design feature

I will nail my colours to the mast and say that I think they are useful over kitchen worktops and in places like corridors and cupboards. I totally dislike them in living rooms and bedrooms cos when I recline back in a chair or in bed they are staring me straight in the eye

Now this may just be me. I don't like looking at those filament bulbs either and I always make my own lights obscure. Other people don't seem to have an issue with them.

Or could it be that splattering a property with downlights is an easy design option and no-one ever thinks about the aesthetics (what is beautiful about rows of dots on a ceiling. Nothing) or the glare

I am looking at the wiring diagram of a barn conversion which we are doing for sale and downlights are specified everywhere. I am trying to decide whether I should scrub them, which would be cheaper and which I think would be better. Or whether the fact that the property is for sale makes a difference. Why stand out from the crowd?

What do you think?
Anna

On 19/02/2020 09:16, Anna Kettle wrote:
Memory lane ...
I first posted here before uk.d-i-y existed, when it was just a topic in uk.misc
And then posted regularly on the newsgroup for several years as I was doing up my medieval farmhouse in Suffolk. I still recognise a few names from back then theskullster, R D S, Dave Plowman, John Rumm, The Natural Philsopher all look familiar. Others too. Hello!

One of the things I always enjoyed about UK.d-i-y was the breadth of independent thought

Plenty of independent thought here about Brex...

and that has brought me back (to google groups this time) with a
question to punt in the air

What do you think of LED downlighters? As a design feature

I will nail my colours to the mast and say that I think they are useful over kitchen worktops and in places like corridors and cupboards. I totally dislike them in living rooms and bedrooms cos when I recline back in a chair or in bed they are staring me straight in the eye

FWIW For enhanced TV viewing, I'm considering installing a 3" strip
pelmet around all four sides of this room, with wall facing led strips
hidden to throw RGB lighting down the walls, or maybe throw a bit
upwards - which would probably mean suspension wires and a ledge for
dust and spiders, er - nope.

Whatever, it means I avoid staring at the point sources as well.

--
Adrian C

On 19/02/2020 09:16, Anna Kettle wrote:
Memory lane ...
I first posted here before uk.d-i-y existed, when it was just a topic in uk.misc
And then posted regularly on the newsgroup for several years as I was doing up my medieval farmhouse in Suffolk. I still recognise a few names from back then theskullster, R D S, Dave Plowman, John Rumm, The Natural Philsopher all look familiar. Others too. Hello!

One of the things I always enjoyed about UK.d-i-y was the breadth of independent thought and that has brought me back (to google groups this time) with a question to punt in the air

What do you think of LED downlighters? As a design feature

I will nail my colours to the mast and say that I think they are useful over kitchen worktops and in places like corridors and cupboards. I totally dislike them in living rooms and bedrooms cos when I recline back in a chair or in bed they are staring me straight in the eye

Now this may just be me. I don't like looking at those filament bulbs either and I always make my own lights obscure. Other people don't seem to have an issue with them.

Or could it be that splattering a property with downlights is an easy design option and no-one ever thinks about the aesthetics (what is beautiful about rows of dots on a ceiling. Nothing) or the glare

I am looking at the wiring diagram of a barn conversion which we are doing for sale and downlights are specified everywhere. I am trying to decide whether I should scrub them, which would be cheaper and which I think would be better. Or whether the fact that the property is for sale makes a difference. Why stand out from the crowd?

What do you think?
Anna

Welcome back.

Totally agree with you about corridors, I transformed my gloomy hall
with a pair of the non-replaceable bulb time as recommended by John
Rumm. One of the things I like about them was that they have switchable
colour temperature, and I could not decide which would be best with the
existing decor.

For the kitchen, I have strip lights under the cupboards for the
worktops. One of these days I'd like to replace the existing 2Ds in the
ceiling probably with LED flat panels, to increase the light level.

I now have LED bulbs in the uplighters in my (low ceiling) cottage
living room although it would be good to have ones with more oomph.

On 19/02/2020 09:16, Anna Kettle wrote:
What do you think of LED downlighters? As a design feature

Hmm. Bit passé these days

I will nail my colours to the mast and say that I think they are
useful over kitchen worktops and in places like corridors and
cupboards. I totally dislike them in living rooms and bedrooms cos
when I recline back in a chair or in bed they are staring me straight
in the eye


Agree.

Now this may just be me. I don't like looking at those filament bulbs
either and I always make my own lights obscure. Other people don't
seem to have an issue with them.

Or could it be that splattering a property with downlights is an easy
design option and no-one ever thinks about the aesthetics (what is
beautiful about rows of dots on a ceiling. Nothing) or the glare


Yes.

I am looking at the wiring diagram of a barn conversion which we are
doing for sale and downlights are specified everywhere. I am trying
to decide whether I should scrub them, which would be cheaper and
which I think would be better. Or whether the fact that the property
is for sale makes a difference. Why stand out from the crowd?

What do you think? Anna

It's a question of having confidence in your design decisions and
knowing your target market.

I've seen horrendous things that people with money absolutely love,
because people with money, mostly like to show that they have the money.

In which case the person to ask is the estate agent, not UK.d-i-y

Personally I have spot down lights in 'utility' areas and wall lamps and
standards in 'living' areas.


--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
....than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman

"Anna Kettle" wrote in message
...
What do you think of LED downlighters? As a design feature

I will nail my colours to the mast and say that I think they are useful
over kitchen worktops and in places like corridors and cupboards. I
totally dislike them in living rooms and bedrooms cos when I recline back
in a chair or in bed they are staring me straight in the eye

They are fine for general illumination in a living room or bedroom, but as
you say they are very distracting if you are reclining in bed or a chair and
you end up looking straight at them - and they are much brighter than the
book that you are trying to read.

I turn off (or dim) LED downlighters when I'm trying to read. Phillips Hue
and other similar technologies make it easy to dim or change the colour of a
bulb to achieve this.

*Any* overhead light (even with a shade) can be distracting if you have to
look straight at it. For reading, I like a light to come from behind, over
my shoulder, so it illuminates the pages of the book and leaves the
background of the room darker so your attention is focussed on the book.

I don't think LED downlighters (eg GU10) are any worse in this respect than
tungsten or CFL ones, or bare bulbs of any technology.

On 2/19/2020 4:16 AM, Anna Kettle wrote:
Memory lane ...
I first posted here before uk.d-i-y existed, when it was just a topic in uk.misc
And then posted regularly on the newsgroup for several years as I was doing up my medieval farmhouse in Suffolk. I still recognise a few names from back then theskullster, R D S, Dave Plowman, John Rumm, The Natural Philsopher all look familiar. Others too. Hello!

One of the things I always enjoyed about UK.d-i-y was the breadth of independent thought and that has brought me back (to google groups this time) with a question to punt in the air

What do you think of LED downlighters? As a design feature

I will nail my colours to the mast and say that I think they are useful over kitchen worktops and in places like corridors and cupboards. I totally dislike them in living rooms and bedrooms cos when I recline back in a chair or in bed they are staring me straight in the eye

Now this may just be me. I don't like looking at those filament bulbs either and I always make my own lights obscure. Other people don't seem to have an issue with them.

Or could it be that splattering a property with downlights is an easy design option and no-one ever thinks about the aesthetics (what is beautiful about rows of dots on a ceiling. Nothing) or the glare

I am looking at the wiring diagram of a barn conversion which we are doing for sale and downlights are specified everywhere. I am trying to decide whether I should scrub them, which would be cheaper and which I think would be better. Or whether the fact that the property is for sale makes a difference. Why stand out from the crowd?

What do you think?
Anna

We have LED downlighters in the utility/laundry room, workshop, and
shower room. They work well for general lighting, but I also have
moveable floorlamps (with magnifiers) for close work on my machines.
I don't like them in bedrooms or living rooms. When we redo the kitchen,
we're considering downlighters there for general lighting, with strip
lighting over the worktops.

On 19/02/2020 09:33, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 19/02/2020 09:16, Anna Kettle wrote:
Memory lane ...
I first posted here before uk.d-i-y existed, when it was just a topic
in uk.misc
And then posted regularly on the newsgroup for several years as I was
doing up my medieval farmhouse in Suffolk. I still recognise a few
names from back then theskullster, R D S, Dave Plowman, John Rumm, The
Natural Philsopher all look familiar. Others too. Hello!

One of the things I always enjoyed about UK.d-i-y was the breadth of
independent thought

Plenty of independent thought here about Brex...

and that has brought me back (to google groups this time) with a
question to punt in the air

What do you think of LED downlighters? As a design feature

I will nail my colours to the mast and say that I think they are
useful over kitchen worktops and in places like corridors and
cupboards. I totally dislike them in living rooms and bedrooms cos
when I recline back in a chair or in bed they are staring me straight
in the eye

FWIW For enhanced TV viewing, I'm considering installing a 3" strip
pelmet around all four sides of this room, with wall facing led strips
hidden to throw RGB lighting down the walls, or maybe throw a bit
upwards - which would probably mean suspension wires and a ledge for
dust and spiders, er - nope.

Whatever, it means I avoid staring at the point sources as well.


You could just buy a Phillips Ambilight TV to get the same effect :-)

On 19/02/2020 10:04, newshound wrote:
On 19/02/2020 09:16, Anna Kettle wrote:
Memory lane ...
I first posted here before uk.d-i-y existed, when it was just a topic
in uk.misc
And then posted regularly on the newsgroup for several years as I was
doing up my medieval farmhouse in Suffolk. I still recognise a few
names from back then theskullster, R D S, Dave Plowman, John Rumm, The
Natural Philsopher all look familiar. Others too. Hello!

One of the things I always enjoyed about UK.d-i-y was the breadth of
independent thought and that has brought me back (to google groups
this time) with a question to punt in the air

What do you think of LED downlighters? As a design feature

I will nail my colours to the mast and say that I think they are
useful over kitchen worktops and in places like corridors and
cupboards. I totally dislike them in living rooms and bedrooms cos
when I recline back in a chair or in bed they are staring me straight
in the eye

Now this may just be me. I don't like looking at those filament bulbs
either and I always make my own lights obscure. Other people don't
seem to have an issue with them.

Or could it be that splattering a property with downlights is an easy
design option and no-one ever thinks about the aesthetics (what is
beautiful about rows of dots on a ceiling. Nothing) or the glare

I am looking at the wiring diagram of a barn conversion which we are
doing for sale and downlights are specified everywhere. I am trying to
decide whether I should scrub them, which would be cheaper and which I
think would be better. Or whether the fact that the property is for
sale makes a difference. Why stand out from the crowd?

What do you think?
Anna

Welcome back.

Totally agree with you about corridors, I transformed my gloomy hall
with a pair of the non-replaceable bulb time as recommended by John
Rumm. One of the things I like about them was that they have switchable
colour temperature, and I could not decide which would be best with the
existing decor.

For the kitchen, I have strip lights under the cupboards for the
worktops. One of these days I'd like to replace the existing 2Ds in the
ceiling probably with LED flat panels, to increase the light level.

I now have LED bulbs in the uplighters in my (low ceiling) cottage
living room although it would be good to have ones with more oomph.

One of the grand designs programs showed someone with an old
farmhouse that was demolished and rplaced with a new build.
He used old cow drinkers, polished up and used as up-lighters
by getting a sparky to fit halogen bulbs inside them.
A while ago I believe.

There are some fantastic 'car boot sales' in France where
you can pick up amazing old industrial lighting, and loads
more and repurpose it.

In the UK, old Coughtrie industrial lamps sell for silly money
on ebay.

In article ,
Anna Kettle wrote:
What do you think of LED downlighters? As a design feature

I will nail my colours to the mast and say that I think they are useful
over kitchen worktops and in places like corridors and cupboards. I
totally dislike them in living rooms and bedrooms cos when I recline
back in a chair or in bed they are staring me straight in the eye

Then have a choice of lighting for those conditions? Bedside lights. Table
lights in a living room, or other forms you won't be looking at directly.

One beauty of downlighters is they are pretty unobtrusive when not in use.
A reason they continue to be popular.

--
*A dog's not just for Christmas, it's alright on a Friday night too*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, 19 February 2020 09:16:26 UTC, Anna Kettle wrote:
Memory lane ...
I first posted here before uk.d-i-y existed, when it was just a topic in uk.misc
And then posted regularly on the newsgroup for several years as I was doing up my medieval farmhouse in Suffolk. I still recognise a few names from back then theskullster, R D S, Dave Plowman, John Rumm, The Natural Philsopher all look familiar. Others too. Hello!

One of the things I always enjoyed about UK.d-i-y was the breadth of independent thought and that has brought me back (to google groups this time) with a question to punt in the air

What do you think of LED downlighters? As a design feature

I will nail my colours to the mast and say that I think they are useful over kitchen worktops and in places like corridors and cupboards. I totally dislike them in living rooms and bedrooms cos when I recline back in a chair or in bed they are staring me straight in the eye

Now this may just be me. I don't like looking at those filament bulbs either and I always make my own lights obscure. Other people don't seem to have an issue with them.

Or could it be that splattering a property with downlights is an easy design option and no-one ever thinks about the aesthetics (what is beautiful about rows of dots on a ceiling. Nothing) or the glare

I am looking at the wiring diagram of a barn conversion which we are doing for sale and downlights are specified everywhere. I am trying to decide whether I should scrub them, which would be cheaper and which I think would be better. Or whether the fact that the property is for sale makes a difference. Why stand out from the crowd?

What do you think?
Anna

Welcome back.

Downlights have several downsides.
- horrid glare when not standing
- patchy shadowy uneven lighting
- shining light at a carpet is not a recipe for energy efficiency.
- far more fittings are needed per lighting job due the unevneness & reduced spread of the light.

Despite this they have been popular due to their association with cinemas & ability to make surfaces a bit less boring.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Uplighters

I'd be inclined to look at other similarish properties for sale & see what works well, what doesn't.


NT

In article ,
wrote:
Downlights have several downsides. - horrid glare when not standing -
patchy shadowy uneven lighting - shining light at a carpet is not a
recipe for energy efficiency. - far more fittings are needed per
lighting job due the unevneness & reduced spread of the light.

A single naked pendant tungsten bulb or CFL should do exactly what you
want, then.

--
*What do you call a dinosaur with an extensive vocabulary? A thesaurus.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Anna Kettle wrote

What do you think of LED downlighters? As a design feature

They work well in plenty of situations and a lot better than
plenty of alternatives like those stupid fake chandeliers.

I will nail my colours to the mast and say that
I think they are useful over kitchen worktops

I prefer strip lighting under the overhead cupboards
for that and with island benches too. And the entire
ceiling as a bright panel works well there too.

and in places like corridors and cupboards.

I like them in the main rooms too.

I totally dislike them in living rooms and bedrooms
cos when I recline back in a chair or in bed they are
staring me straight in the eye

Thats not a problem in the main room when you have
different lighting when watching TV or reading a book
etc and trivial to completely automate that with a decent
system like the Philips Hue so that it happens auto when
you turn on the TV to watch it in the evening etc.

I dont have the TV on all the time.

And the alternative to downlights have
other problems in the main room too.

Makes no sense to have one size fits all in those rooms now.

Same with the bedrooms, no point in the same
lights for reading a book in bed, ****ing, going
to bed, getting dressed when getting up in the
dark etc and with decent modern light systems
trivial to automate those scene changes too.

Now this may just be me. I don't like looking
at those filament bulbs either and I always
make my own lights obscure.

When I still read printed books, I preferred to
have the light over my shoulder so no need
to conceal it for that. But now I only read
ebooks for the other convenience of being
able to do it anywhere and have the entire
immense library in my pocket anywhere so
the lighting for that isnt a problem anymore.

Other people don't seem to have an issue with them.

Or could it be that splattering a property with downlights is an
easy design option and no-one ever thinks about the aesthetics

I actually prefer the aesthetics over those stupid fake chandeliers,
wall lights, pendants, floor lamps, spot lights etc.

I also like the entire ceiling as one bright surface
but its currently not affordable with led lighting.

(what is beautiful about rows of dots on a ceiling. Nothing)

The lamp holder is completely invisible.

or the glare

I am looking at the wiring diagram of a barn conversion
which we are doing for sale and downlights are specified
everywhere. I am trying to decide whether I should scrub
them, which would be cheaper and which I think would
be better. Or whether the fact that the property is for
sale makes a difference.

Corse it does when individual taste varys so much,

Why stand out from the crowd?

That can make a sale if done right but also restricts
your market because some won't like that approach.

What do you think?

I gave that up, it just makes my head hurt.

On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 02:43:26 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH senile asshole's troll****

02:43??? LOL No sleep at night for you EVER again, eh, senile Rodent? At
least it will help you to croak sooner (which everyone is waiting for)!

--
Norman Wells addressing trolling senile Rodent:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 09:33:17 +0000, Adrian Caspersz wrote:

On 19/02/2020 09:16, Anna Kettle wrote:
Memory lane ...
I first posted here before uk.d-i-y existed, when it was just a topic in uk.misc
And then posted regularly on the newsgroup for several years as I was doing up my medieval farmhouse in Suffolk. I still recognise a few names from back then theskullster, R D S, Dave Plowman, John Rumm, The Natural Philsopher all look familiar. Others too. Hello!

One of the things I always enjoyed about UK.d-i-y was the breadth of independent thought

Plenty of independent thought here about Brex...

and that has brought me back (to google groups this time) with a
question to punt in the air

What do you think of LED downlighters? As a design feature

I will nail my colours to the mast and say that I think they are useful over kitchen worktops and in places like corridors and cupboards. I totally dislike them in living rooms and bedrooms cos when I recline back in a chair or in bed they are staring me straight in the eye

FWIW For enhanced TV viewing, I'm considering installing a 3" strip
pelmet around all four sides of this room, with wall facing led strips
hidden to throw RGB lighting down the walls, or maybe throw a bit
upwards - which would probably mean suspension wires and a ledge for
dust and spiders, er - nope.

Whatever, it means I avoid staring at the point sources as well.

Must have been getting on 20 years ago, I was in John Lewis (the
store!)looking around a department where almost everything was on shelves
around the walls. Two things stood out: no moosick, blessedly quiet; well
lit but not a lamp in sight. Can't remember how it was done. Might go back
to see if it's still the same - some chance!
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

Anna Kettle wrote:
Memory lane ...
I first posted here before uk.d-i-y existed, when it was just a topic in uk.misc
And then posted regularly on the newsgroup for several years as I was
doing up my medieval farmhouse in Suffolk. I still recognise a few names
from back then theskullster, R D S, Dave Plowman, John Rumm, The Natural
Philsopher all look familiar. Others too. Hello!

Welcome back! Afraid the place has rather gone to the dogs in your absence
but thankfully John Rumm keeps the signal to noise ratio high enough to
make it worth still following. ;-)



One of the things I always enjoyed about UK.d-i-y was the breadth of
independent thought and that has brought me back (to google groups this
time) with a question to punt in the air

What do you think of LED downlighters? As a design feature

I will nail my colours to the mast and say that I think they are useful
over kitchen worktops and in places like corridors and cupboards. I
totally dislike them in living rooms and bedrooms cos when I recline back
in a chair or in bed they are staring me straight in the eye

I would concur.

Now this may just be me. I don't like looking at those filament bulbs
either and I always make my own lights obscure. Other people don't seem
to have an issue with them.

Or could it be that splattering a property with downlights is an easy
design option and no-one ever thinks about the aesthetics (what is
beautiful about rows of dots on a ceiling. Nothing) or the glare

I think for a lot of electricians and designers the thought processes go no
further than €œdown-lighters are trendy, therefore you cant have too many
of them€�. It saves them having to think. Designing concealed uplighters
say takes more time/money and most customers dont complain about
downlighters.


I am looking at the wiring diagram of a barn conversion which we are
doing for sale and downlights are specified everywhere. I am trying to
decide whether I should scrub them, which would be cheaper and which I
think would be better. Or whether the fact that the property is for sale
makes a difference. Why stand out from the crowd?

What do you think?

Its a very personal thing. Nicely designed uplighters can provide a much
nicer quality of light in many areas but if I was just renovating to sell
on, I might well be tempted by the €œeasy option€� of downlighters.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 19/02/2020 12:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I've seen horrendous things that people with money absolutely love,
because people with money, mostly like to show that they have the money.

In which case the person to ask is the estate agent, not UK.d-i-y

This one ..

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property...-65826048.html

(still for sale)

--
Adrian C

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
Downlights have several downsides. - horrid glare when not standing -
patchy shadowy uneven lighting - shining light at a carpet is not a
recipe for energy efficiency. - far more fittings are needed per
lighting job due the unevneness & reduced spread of the light.

A single naked pendant tungsten bulb or CFL should do exactly what you
want, then.

Actually, a bare bulb isn't terrible in that respect. A bit lacking in finesse
perhaps, but the light is OK as long as you don't stare at the bulb. Better
than putting it in a shade that tunnels it to the floor.

One abode had downlighters in a grid all over the kitchen ceiling. The
problem was they weren't aligned with anything, especially not the walls, so
they lit the floor wonderfully, but the sink and work surfaces were in
shadow. They were also wired in three rows - you could either have rows A
and C or row B on (or all three), but the rows were at 90 degrees to most of
the work surfaces. So you had settings of dingy in all the wrong places or
blindingly bright and yet still dingy.

New place has small angled spots on a track, which actually aren't bad
light-wise, if not the prettiest to look at. In need of finding a nice LED
bulb given they probably take 200W per room.

Are there any good flat surface mount ceiling lights? Most of the LED
lights I've seen still want recessing, even though the actual COB LED is a
couple of mm thick. There are some industrial-looking panel lights, but
nothing very attractive.

Theo

On Wednesday, 19 February 2020 09:16:26 UTC, Anna Kettle wrote:
Hello!

Hello!

What do you think of LED downlighters? As a design feature

I don't like them.

But sufficient people either do, or expect them, that I'd probably put a couple of rows where people would expect them.

In a high ceiling barn conversion, 12volt spots on taut wires or slim track could actually work out cheaper as it's quicker to install, and you only have to leave a token number of spots for the buyers and they can put what they want where they want without mess.

Owain

On Wednesday, 19 February 2020 15:45:44 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

Downlights have several downsides. - horrid glare when not standing -
patchy shadowy uneven lighting - shining light at a carpet is not a
recipe for energy efficiency. - far more fittings are needed per
lighting job due the unevneness & reduced spread of the light.

A single naked pendant tungsten bulb or CFL should do exactly what you
want, then.

It doesn't. Are you going to stop saying totally stupid things, or should I plonk you?

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 19 February 2020 15:45:44 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

Downlights have several downsides. - horrid glare when not standing -
patchy shadowy uneven lighting - shining light at a carpet is not a
recipe for energy efficiency. - far more fittings are needed per
lighting job due the unevneness & reduced spread of the light.

A single naked pendant tungsten bulb or CFL should do exactly what you
want, then.

It doesn't. Are you going to stop saying totally stupid things, or should
I plonk you?

We know you cant plonk anyone on groups.google, stupid.

Thanks for all the replies

Plenty of independent thought here about Brex...
I bet! I will carefully stay away from that topic

For enhanced TV viewing, I'm considering installing a 3" strip
pelmet around all four sides of this room, with wall facing led strips
hidden to throw RGB lighting down the walls
I did a similar thing in an art deco bathroom. I put in a fake ceiling 100mm below the real ceiling and 100mm in from the walls, then put coloured strip light around the top edge of the fake ceiling which shined onto the reflective real ceiling and wall panels and was colour matched to the glass worktop. It looks very glam, but was a complete pain to do and was not cheap, so I doubt if I would do it again

It's a question of having confidence in your design decisions and
knowing your target market.

Indeed. And there is a wide variety of opinions here too about the usefulness of downlighters. So I have decided to keep my mouth shut and allow the downlighters, but made sure that the living rooms and bedrooms also have wall lights which can be used for a less clinical feel and plenty of sockets so lights can be plugged in.

I live in an old house - preelectric - so ceiling and wall lights are not appropriate and I installed lighting circuits instead so that table and standard lights can be controlled from one switch by the door, but in this case I think that lighting circuits might panic potential purchasers

Afraid the place has rather gone to the dogs
They used to say that 15 years ago too!

This one https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property...-65826048.html
Is not a patch on my dad's house. He has both UK and US wiring throughout, the light over the front door can be controlled in five different ways ...

Are there any good flat surface mount ceiling lights? Most of the
LED lights I've seen still want recessing
We don't have a void between the kitchen ceiling and the bedroom floor above but our electrician found some via https://www.7core.co.uk/ which were only about 10mm thick and could sit within the ceiling plaster

In a high ceiling barn conversion, 12volt spots on taut wires or slim
track could actually work out cheaper as it's quicker to install, and you
only have to leave a token number of spots for the buyers and they can put
what they want where they want without mess.
True and a good idea, failing only at the first hurdle that I hate lights on wire considerably more than I hate ceiling downlighters!

Anna

On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 14:44:45 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll****

14:44?????? ROTFLOL So you've been up and trolling for THIRTEEN HOURS, ALL
NIGHT LONG and now also ALL DAY LONG, with almost no break, yet AGAIN!

So, what is your psychiatrists' official diagnosis of your mental state,
senile Rodent ...apart from the fact that you are a full-scale sociopath?

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

Andrew wrote:

There are some fantastic 'car boot sales' in France where
you can pick up amazing old industrial lighting

Or discover that Drew Pritchard has got there before you ...

In article ,
wrote:
On Wednesday, 19 February 2020 15:45:44 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

Downlights have several downsides. - horrid glare when not standing -
patchy shadowy uneven lighting - shining light at a carpet is not a
recipe for energy efficiency. - far more fittings are needed per
lighting job due the unevneness & reduced spread of the light.

A single naked pendant tungsten bulb or CFL should do exactly what you
want, then.

It doesn't. Are you going to stop saying totally stupid things, or
should I plonk you?

Please do if it avoids your stupid comments on my posts.

--
*The more people I meet, the more I like my dog.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 19/02/2020 09:16, Anna Kettle wrote:

Memory lane ... I first posted here before uk.d-i-y existed, when it
was just a topic in uk.misc And then posted regularly on the
newsgroup for several years as I was doing up my medieval farmhouse
in Suffolk. I still recognise a few names from back then
theskullster, R D S, Dave Plowman, John Rumm, The Natural Philsopher
all look familiar. Others too. Hello!

Hello Anna, nice to hear from you...

Are you still in the world of fancy plaster work?

One of the things I always enjoyed about UK.d-i-y was the breadth of
independent thought and that has brought me back (to google groups
this time) with a question to punt in the air

What do you think of LED downlighters? As a design feature

I will nail my colours to the mast and say that I think they are
useful over kitchen worktops and in places like corridors and
cupboards. I totally dislike them in living rooms and bedrooms cos
when I recline back in a chair or in bed they are staring me straight
in the eye

Yup I would concur. To an extent they are guilty of many of the same
sins as any downlighter, although you do get a bit more choice in things
like beam angle these days which can actually make them better general
purpose light sources than the downlights of old.


Now this may just be me. I don't like looking at those filament bulbs
either and I always make my own lights obscure. Other people don't
seem to have an issue with them.

Much depends on personal preference as well as choosing appropriate
applications.

Or could it be that splattering a property with downlights is an easy
design option and no-one ever thinks about the aesthetics (what is
beautiful about rows of dots on a ceiling. Nothing) or the glare

They may be an "easy" design option (although not necessarily an easy
implementation one!)

They can work well in places where lots of directed beams of light are
useful, or where you want to show off lots of shiny stuff with more
obvious specular reflections. Kitchens spring to mind with some focused
task lighting.

Having said that, for a kitchen I would prefer the main light to be
indirect and diffuse, and then over counter lighting to be bright but
fully concealed and omni directional. So for applications like I favour
LED tape lighting just behind the pelmet on the under side of cabinets.
So the only real scope for a downlight might be to put some light
directly over a sink or appliance like a hob.

I am looking at the wiring diagram of a barn conversion which we are
doing for sale and downlights are specified everywhere. I am trying
to decide whether I should scrub them, which would be cheaper and
which I think would be better. Or whether the fact that the property
is for sale makes a difference. Why stand out from the crowd?

What do you think? Anna

Things to consider...

More costly to wire obviously, although you could argue it gives some
easy options to future owners since power is then available in lots of
places should they want to opt for something different.

If used for general space lighting, they work better in places with high
ceilings. For lower height places, a closer spacing of lower powered
lamps my be more comfortable to live with.

"wall washer" style fitting can look good to add interest in a blank
wall or even draw attention to something like a beamed wall with a more
rustic look.

Narrow landings can look quite good with a central row of downlights,
and have the advantage of being something you can't bump into (something
I have personal issues with in older Suffolk properties, which were
really not designed with my 6'3" frame in mind!)

For rooms with beamed ceilings they can be a way to integrate light
fittings that otherwise don't tend to work as well aesthetically because
the beams get in the way of fittings, or cast ugly shadows etc.

I suppose if designing to sell, then they probably have a bit more "wow"
factor since many will not think though the implications of living with
them at the time of purchase!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
Anna Kettle wrote:
Indeed. And there is a wide variety of opinions here too about the
usefulness of downlighters. So I have decided to keep my mouth shut and
allow the downlighters, but made sure that the living rooms and bedrooms
also have wall lights which can be used for a less clinical feel and
plenty of sockets so lights can be plugged in.

Downlighters are popular because they are accepted by most. And
unobtrusive when you don't need lights on.

But you can never have too many choices in say a living room. Floor level
sockets for table lights (2 amp) or whatever. Switched from the wall
switches very convenient. Your downlighters perhaps grouped - so you could
light one end of the room only. If DIYing, it doesn't add greatly to the
costs.

In my living room, I have 8 lighting circuits, each on an individual
dimmer.

Might not suit your granny, of course. ;-)

--
*Of course I'm against sin; I'm against anything that I'm too old to enjoy.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 20/02/2020 07:57, Anna Kettle wrote:

Are there any good flat surface mount ceiling lights? Most of the
LED lights I've seen still want recessing

We don't have a void between the kitchen ceiling and the bedroom
floor above but our electrician found some via
https://www.7core.co.uk/ which were only about 10mm thick and could
sit within the ceiling plaster

LED panel lights can be very thin - but also very "office" like in
appearance so not always ideal.

You can also get various extruded ali profiles with diffusers for
putting a LED tape light into, which can give good flexibility in a
"stick on" fitting about 11mm tall. (although note that tape lights can
be less energy efficient that some LED lighting options).

e.g:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/tcl/sea...ery=tape+light


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 19/02/2020 17:36, Tim+ wrote:
Anna Kettle wrote:
Memory lane ...
I first posted here before uk.d-i-y existed, when it was just a topic in uk.misc
And then posted regularly on the newsgroup for several years as I was
doing up my medieval farmhouse in Suffolk. I still recognise a few names
from back then theskullster, R D S, Dave Plowman, John Rumm, The Natural
Philsopher all look familiar. Others too. Hello!

Welcome back! Afraid the place has rather gone to the dogs in your absence
but thankfully John Rumm keeps the signal to noise ratio high enough to
make it worth still following. ;-)

I suggest working on automated filtering for the group, just in case I
have to take a day off :-)

In fact if you filter the one or two key spewers of drivel, and their
devoted stalker, its not that different from the past.

Older and grumpier though, and some very good contributors have departed
(and sadly not only the group but life as well, in some cases).


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 19/02/2020 13:06, Andrew wrote:
On 19/02/2020 09:33, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 19/02/2020 09:16, Anna Kettle wrote:
Memory lane ...
I first posted here before uk.d-i-y existed, when it was just a topic
in uk.misc
And then posted regularly on the newsgroup for several years as I was
doing up my medieval farmhouse in Suffolk. I still recognise a few
names from back then theskullster, R D S, Dave Plowman, John Rumm,
The Natural Philsopher all look familiar. Others too. Hello!

One of the things I always enjoyed about UK.d-i-y was the breadth of
independent thought

Plenty of independent thought here about Brex...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlKRW1vsTxM

If you have seen it before then enjoy the repeat.


--
Adam

On 20/02/2020 23:14, ARW wrote:
On 19/02/2020 13:06, Andrew wrote:
On 19/02/2020 09:33, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 19/02/2020 09:16, Anna Kettle wrote:
Memory lane ...
I first posted here before uk.d-i-y existed, when it was just a
topic in uk.misc
And then posted regularly on the newsgroup for several years as I
was doing up my medieval farmhouse in Suffolk. I still recognise a
few names from back then theskullster, R D S, Dave Plowman, John
Rumm, The Natural Philsopher all look familiar. Others too. Hello!

One of the things I always enjoyed about UK.d-i-y was the breadth of
independent thought

Plenty of independent thought here about Brex...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlKRW1vsTxM

If you have seen it before then enjoy the repeat.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVn_zcLJGNQ

might be better

--
Adam

On Thursday, 20 February 2020 15:52:01 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 19 February 2020 15:45:44 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

Downlights have several downsides. - horrid glare when not standing -
patchy shadowy uneven lighting - shining light at a carpet is not a
recipe for energy efficiency. - far more fittings are needed per
lighting job due the unevneness & reduced spread of the light.

A single naked pendant tungsten bulb or CFL should do exactly what you
want, then.

It doesn't. Are you going to stop saying totally stupid things, or
should I plonk you?

Please do if it avoids your stupid comments on my posts.

OK Rodney.

In article ,
wrote:
It doesn't. Are you going to stop saying totally stupid things, or
should I plonk you?

Please do if it avoids your stupid comments on my posts.

OK Rodney.

Not able to read headers either, then?

--
*I was married by a judge. I should have asked for a jury.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.