I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the wiring
should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Cheers



Dave R

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On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is potentially
dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used until it has been
inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3 Risks)."

This seems a bit extreme.
Standard butt covering or a real risk?

Cheers



Dave R

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On 24/09/2019 22:12, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is potentially
dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used until it has been
inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3 Risks)."

This seems a bit extreme.
Standard butt covering or a real risk?

That goes further than covering arse.

Condition rating 3 €“ defects that are serious and/or need to be
repaired, replaced or investigated urgently

If an engineer is called and there are no defect I would send the
surveyor the bill. He may, of course, be right. Have you blocked any air
vents?

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 21:12:05 +0000, David wrote:

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance
with the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is
potentially dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used until
it has been inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3 Risks)."

This seems a bit extreme.
Standard butt covering or a real risk?

Oh, and:

"The current arrangement of the conservatory is not compliant with the
Building Regulations and will need to be altered accordingly if the
accommodation is to be classed as being compliant."

As far as I know the older bits should be "grandfathered" in, and have no
legal requirement to be brought up to current building regulations.
Insulation requirements are below current - glazed with a plastic roof and
has a radiator in so is part of the main property - which wouldn't be
allowed by current regs.

These look very much like weasel words to bump up the cost of repairs.
It doesn't actually say that you are legally required to do the work; just
implies it by "if the accommodation is to be classed as compliant". Which
as far as I can see there is no legal requirement unless you undertake
major structural work and have to bring the rest of the property up to
current regs.

I may be reading too much into this, of course.


Cheers



Dave R


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On 24/09/19 21:49, David wrote:
I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the wiring
should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

The new owner may find that their buildings insurance for the new
property depends on them complying with any recommendations in the
surveyors support. Even if the wiring itself complies, the insurance
company may ask for the CU to be brought up-to-date if it is old, or
anything else which they consider could be a risk.

--

Jeff

On 24/09/2019 22:23, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 21:12:05 +0000, David wrote:

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance
with the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is
potentially dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used until
it has been inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3 Risks)."

This seems a bit extreme.
Standard butt covering or a real risk?

Oh, and:

"The current arrangement of the conservatory is not compliant with the
Building Regulations and will need to be altered accordingly if the
accommodation is to be classed as being compliant."

As far as I know the older bits should be "grandfathered" in, and have no
legal requirement to be brought up to current building regulations.
Insulation requirements are below current - glazed with a plastic roof and
has a radiator in so is part of the main property - which wouldn't be
allowed by current regs.

These look very much like weasel words to bump up the cost of repairs.
It doesn't actually say that you are legally required to do the work; just
implies it by "if the accommodation is to be classed as compliant". Which
as far as I can see there is no legal requirement unless you undertake
major structural work and have to bring the rest of the property up to
current regs.

I may be reading too much into this, of course.

The survey is commissioned by the buyers, the surveyor is using words
for them, so provide some bargaining power.

If they have agreed a a price then personally I would likely not budge
on price and put it back on the market if they're not going to commit.

Remember they have paid for the survey and probably don't want to shell
out for another survey on another house with potentially the same result.

It's your call, of course.

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 22:26:28 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote:

On 24/09/19 21:49, David wrote:
I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance
with the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

The new owner may find that their buildings insurance for the new
property depends on them complying with any recommendations in the
surveyors support. Even if the wiring itself complies, the insurance
company may ask for the CU to be brought up-to-date if it is old, or
anything else which they consider could be a risk.

Assuming, of course, that the insurance company gains access to the report.
This isn't a usual thing as far as I know.
A mortgage company may place conditions for granting a mortgage if a
valuation survey is more than a drive by and turns up some issues.
I don't think I've ever seen an insurance company do that.
Then again I might have been lucky with my insurance companies.


Cheers



Dave R


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On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 22:29:00 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 24/09/2019 22:23, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 21:12:05 +0000, David wrote:

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the
electrical wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC
registered, in order to outline any remedial works necessary to
achieve compliance with the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is
potentially dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used
until it has been inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3
Risks)."

This seems a bit extreme.
Standard butt covering or a real risk?

Oh, and:

"The current arrangement of the conservatory is not compliant with the
Building Regulations and will need to be altered accordingly if the
accommodation is to be classed as being compliant."

As far as I know the older bits should be "grandfathered" in, and have
no legal requirement to be brought up to current building regulations.
Insulation requirements are below current - glazed with a plastic roof
and has a radiator in so is part of the main property - which wouldn't
be allowed by current regs.

These look very much like weasel words to bump up the cost of repairs.
It doesn't actually say that you are legally required to do the work;
just implies it by "if the accommodation is to be classed as
compliant". Which as far as I can see there is no legal requirement
unless you undertake major structural work and have to bring the rest
of the property up to current regs.

I may be reading too much into this, of course.

The survey is commissioned by the buyers, the surveyor is using words
for them, so provide some bargaining power.

If they have agreed a a price then personally I would likely not budge
on price and put it back on the market if they're not going to commit.

Remember they have paid for the survey and probably don't want to shell
out for another survey on another house with potentially the same
result.

It's your call, of course.

This is an equitable rather than contentious negotiation.

We are trying to work out which items are genuinely a problem, and which
are just the surveyor trying to bet the price down for their client.

Which is why I am asking to confirm which phrases are flannel and which
reflect real legislation.

Most houses on resale will not comply with current building regulations.

Houses built before 1900 probably don't comply with any!


Cheers



Dave r



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On 24/09/2019 22:23, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 21:12:05 +0000, David wrote:

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance
with the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is
potentially dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used until
it has been inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3 Risks)."

This seems a bit extreme.
Standard butt covering or a real risk?

Oh, and:

"The current arrangement of the conservatory is not compliant with the
Building Regulations and will need to be altered accordingly if the
accommodation is to be classed as being compliant."

As far as I know the older bits should be "grandfathered" in, and have no
legal requirement to be brought up to current building regulations.
Insulation requirements are below current - glazed with a plastic roof and
has a radiator in so is part of the main property - which wouldn't be
allowed by current regs.

Heating in a conservatory is still allowed, as far as I am aware - the
requirement is for it to have independent controls. In our case
timer/stat and a motorised valve (although we would have fallen under
the old rules by two days anyway) ... just like every other room in the
house!

Stevew

On 24/09/2019 22:12, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is potentially
dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used until it has been
inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3 Risks)."

The boiler needs to have an air supply if it is not room sealed.
Typically a vent which should not be closed. It also should not leak fumes.


--
Michael Chare

On 24/09/2019 22:43, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 22:26:28 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote:

On 24/09/19 21:49, David wrote:
I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance
with the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

The new owner may find that their buildings insurance for the new
property depends on them complying with any recommendations in the
surveyors support. Even if the wiring itself complies, the insurance
company may ask for the CU to be brought up-to-date if it is old, or
anything else which they consider could be a risk.

Assuming, of course, that the insurance company gains access to the report.
This isn't a usual thing as far as I know.

It is something they can ask for in advance of a payout.

"David" wrote in message
...
I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the wiring
should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

No its not. Its just saying that it has to be safe
and continuing to comply with the regulations
at the time that the most recent changes that
had to be compliant is still compliant and
hasnt degraded or been modified since.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend
updating, but there is no absolute requirement.

Correct, its just poorly worded.

On 24/09/2019 22:47, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 22:29:00 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 24/09/2019 22:23, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 21:12:05 +0000, David wrote:

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the
electrical wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC
registered, in order to outline any remedial works necessary to
achieve compliance with the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is
potentially dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used
until it has been inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3
Risks)."

This seems a bit extreme.
Standard butt covering or a real risk?

Oh, and:

"The current arrangement of the conservatory is not compliant with the
Building Regulations and will need to be altered accordingly if the
accommodation is to be classed as being compliant."

As far as I know the older bits should be "grandfathered" in, and have
no legal requirement to be brought up to current building regulations.
Insulation requirements are below current - glazed with a plastic roof
and has a radiator in so is part of the main property - which wouldn't
be allowed by current regs.

These look very much like weasel words to bump up the cost of repairs.
It doesn't actually say that you are legally required to do the work;
just implies it by "if the accommodation is to be classed as
compliant". Which as far as I can see there is no legal requirement
unless you undertake major structural work and have to bring the rest
of the property up to current regs.

I may be reading too much into this, of course.

The survey is commissioned by the buyers, the surveyor is using words
for them, so provide some bargaining power.

If they have agreed a a price then personally I would likely not budge
on price and put it back on the market if they're not going to commit.

Remember they have paid for the survey and probably don't want to shell
out for another survey on another house with potentially the same
result.

It's your call, of course.

This is an equitable rather than contentious negotiation.

We are trying to work out which items are genuinely a problem, and which
are just the surveyor trying to bet the price down for their client.

Which is why I am asking to confirm which phrases are flannel and which
reflect real legislation.

Most houses on resale will not comply with current building regulations.

Houses built before 1900 probably don't comply with any!


The caveats look to be capable of wild interpretation to the point of
being meaningless. 'Current regulations' might just mean that current
regulations do not apply. The exception is the conservatory - not sure
what's meant there.

Whatever, if any any mortgage is linked to that survey, the issues
raised will have to be sorted out before a sale can proceed.

Cheers, Rob

I've never heard of that. I think, though its wise to at least get a safety
check especially if you are moving in with young children, also if a kitchen
has the signs of recent installation get that very well checked. The sister
of a well known person was killed by a botched up junction box in a new
kitchen fitted on the cheap to help the resale value.

Brian

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"David" wrote in message
...
I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the wiring
should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Cheers



Dave R

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On 25/09/19 00:01, Fredxx wrote:
On 24/09/2019 22:43, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 22:26:28 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote:

On 24/09/19 21:49, David wrote:
I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance
with the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

The new owner may find that their buildings insurance for the new
property depends on them complying with any recommendations in the
surveyors support. Even if the wiring itself complies, the insurance
company may ask for the CU to be brought up-to-date if it is old, or
anything else which they consider could be a risk.

Assuming, of course, that the insurance company gains access to the report.
This isn't a usual thing as far as I know.

It is something they can ask for in advance of a payout.

And that is the point. The "raison d'etre" of an insurance company is to
pay out as little as possible using whatever means possible.

We were caught out by a surveyor report's throwaway comment about the
wiring being old and so would benefit from a check by a qualified
electrician. And that's what led to us needing a new CU as the old one
was obsolete and the RCD couldn't be updated. The annoying thing is that
all this was not what we expected; we had bought a property which had
been underpinned due to subsidence (over 15 years earlier), and that's
what the insurance company said they were interested in - basically had
the underpinning been designed and carried out properly by specialists
in such activities? It had - they had no questions at all concerning the
underpinning, but did read the rest of the report, including the comment
about the wiring.

We could probably have argued the point about this, but companies who
insure underpinned properties are few and far between, and because of a
cock-up by Lloyds (who had previously insured the property) we found
ourselves without any property insurance for a week after we moved in!

--

Jeff

On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 00:01:04 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the
electrical wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably
NICEIC
registered, in order to outline any remedial works necessary to
achieve compliance with the up to date regulations."

As far as I know when the regs chnage it's from a given date. They do
not apply retrospectivily. Otherwise evrryone would have had to rip
out their plastic or wooden CUs and replace with metal ones...

The change of ownership, *may* alter this but I've never heard of
that either.

The new owner may find that their buildings insurance for the new
property depends on them complying with any recommendations in
the
surveyors support. Even if the wiring itself complies, the
insurance
company may ask for the CU to be brought up-to-date if it is old,
or
anything else which they consider could be a risk.

If they ask to see the report *before* offering cover and make those
stipulations in any offer they make.

Assuming, of course, that the insurance company gains access to
the
report. This isn't a usual thing as far as I know.

Agreed,

It is something they can ask for in advance of a payout.

Not relevant if the surveyors report is not required in the policy
T&Cs. The insurance company *may* require relevant, in date, safety
certificates for gas and electricity as part of the Policy T&C's.

The mortage company might stipulate in the T&Cs for the loan that
certain works are carried out and may also specfify a period after
which those works must have been completed.

Most "surveys" are barely worth the paper they are written on when
first produced. After that they are next to useless as they only
state the (vague) condition of the property at the time the survey
was carried out.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 14:30:26 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

This seems to be what the wording implies.

No

LOL

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On Tuesday, 24 September 2019 22:23:48 UTC+1, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 21:12:05 +0000, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance
with the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

no requirement, no

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is
potentially dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used until
it has been inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3 Risks)."

This seems a bit extreme.
Standard butt covering or a real risk?

unsealed boilers do have some risk, they do kill people. But not many, most owners are content to leave them in place until they die eventually. The surveyor probably has no idea what condition it's in, and it's sensible to get it safety tested before use. Landlord's test is about £50. Most people don't bother though. A CO alarm is also a good idea for old unsealed boilers.


Oh, and:

"The current arrangement of the conservatory is not compliant with the
Building Regulations and will need to be altered accordingly if the
accommodation is to be classed as being compliant."

a circular argument, effectively saying you need to update if if you need it to be upto date

As far as I know the older bits should be "grandfathered" in, and have no
legal requirement to be brought up to current building regulations.

correct, normally. If it turned out to have been built 8 months ago that changes.

Insulation requirements are below current - glazed with a plastic roof and
has a radiator in so is part of the main property - which wouldn't be
allowed by current regs.

These look very much like weasel words to bump up the cost of repairs.
It doesn't actually say that you are legally required to do the work; just
implies it by "if the accommodation is to be classed as compliant". Which
as far as I can see there is no legal requirement unless you undertake
major structural work and have to bring the rest of the property up to
current regs.

correct

I may be reading too much into this, of course.


Cheers



Dave R

It's arse covering


NT

On Tuesday, 24 September 2019 22:47:36 UTC+1, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:

This is an equitable rather than contentious negotiation.

We are trying to work out which items are genuinely a problem, and which
are just the surveyor trying to bet the price down for their client.

all the latter - one can't rule out the possibility that there is an unexpected serious problem that has not been identified by anyone.

Which is why I am asking to confirm which phrases are flannel and which
reflect real legislation.

Most houses on resale will not comply with current building regulations.

Houses built before 1900 probably don't comply with any!

That's close to the truth, yet in most respects such buildings are fine. Not so much re insulation.


NT

On 24/09/2019 21:49, David wrote:
I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the wiring
should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Cheers



Dave R


Our recent Homebuyer Valuation didn't even mention electrics, even
though it had an ancient fuse-wire consumer unit.

But I'm glad we had it checked anyway; some sockets weren't earthed,
some were reverse polarity, there was no isolator for the hob, and worst
of all an electric shower was wired to the incoming side of the fuse box.

--
Reentrant

David Wrote in message:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 22:29:00 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 24/09/2019 22:23, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 21:12:05 +0000, David wrote:

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the
electrical wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC
registered, in order to outline any remedial works necessary to
achieve compliance with the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is
potentially dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used
until it has been inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3
Risks)."

This seems a bit extreme.
Standard butt covering or a real risk?

Oh, and:

"The current arrangement of the conservatory is not compliant with the
Building Regulations and will need to be altered accordingly if the
accommodation is to be classed as being compliant."

As far as I know the older bits should be "grandfathered" in, and have
no legal requirement to be brought up to current building regulations.
Insulation requirements are below current - glazed with a plastic roof
and has a radiator in so is part of the main property - which wouldn't
be allowed by current regs.

These look very much like weasel words to bump up the cost of repairs.
It doesn't actually say that you are legally required to do the work;
just implies it by "if the accommodation is to be classed as
compliant". Which as far as I can see there is no legal requirement
unless you undertake major structural work and have to bring the rest
of the property up to current regs.

I may be reading too much into this, of course.

The survey is commissioned by the buyers, the surveyor is using words
for them, so provide some bargaining power.

If they have agreed a a price then personally I would likely not budge
on price and put it back on the market if they're not going to commit.

Remember they have paid for the survey and probably don't want to shell
out for another survey on another house with potentially the same
result.

It's your call, of course.

This is an equitable rather than contentious negotiation.

We are trying to work out which items are genuinely a problem, and which
are just the surveyor trying to bet the price down for their client.

Which is why I am asking to confirm which phrases are flannel and which
reflect real legislation.

Get your own survey done from your pov?


--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 24/09/2019 21:49, David wrote:
I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the wiring
should be brought up to current regulations?

No.

This seems to be what the wording implies.

"Essential" is an opinion - its not the same as "is legally required" or
"must" etc.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Yup, I concur.


--
Cheers,

John.

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On 24/09/2019 22:12, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is potentially
dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used until it has been
inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3 Risks)."

This seems a bit extreme.
Standard butt covering or a real risk?

Floor standing does not necessarily mean its not room sealed - you would
need to check the model number.

If its not room sealed, then it would be *very* strongly advised to get
it checked sooner rather than later (or at least inspect the flame
pattern as a minimum).


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 24/09/2019 21:49, David wrote:
I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the wiring
should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Cheers

I'd only expect to see something like that if the surveyor had some
concerns- perhaps the electrical installation hadn't been undated in an
old house or he'd seen things which looked, to use an non-technical
term, bodged.

Certainly nothing like that was included on a two reports I saw quite
recently (within the last two years). One an older house, one quite
modern. Both sales progressed without a hitch and are now occupied.

On 24/09/2019 22:23, David wrote:
Insulation requirements are below current - glazed with a plastic roof and
has a radiator in so is part of the main property - which wouldn't be
allowed by current regs.

If the previous owner has removed the original outer door
and/or wall so that theconservatory is part of the house
then this would not be allowed under existing Part L(2006).

If it was done after October 2006 then in theory you could
get the remedial work done and then go back and sue the
people who owned the building at that time.

Attempting to heat a conservatory is futile. You could
spend more money heating that one room than the rest
of the house.

On 24/09/2019 23:29, Michael Chare wrote:
On 24/09/2019 22:12, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is
potentially
dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used until it has been
inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3 Risks)."

The boiler needs to have an air supply if it is not room sealed.
Typically a vent which should not be closed. It also should not leak fumes.



There are some free-standing fan flued boilers that pressurise
the casing. Great care must be taken with these (if any still
exist). A couple of BG engineers weere jailed for manslaughter
when they serviced one of these and didn't refit the casing
correctly, killing the occupants.

On 25/09/2019 13:20, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/09/2019 21:49, David wrote:
I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the wiring
should be brought up to current regulations?

No.

This seems to be what the wording implies.

"Essential" is an opinion - its not the same as "is legally required" or
"must" etc.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Yup, I concur.




The fly in the ointment may be the lender (assuming there is one).
If the lender decided the condition of the 'electrics' increased their
exposure should the borrower default, they may insist on an inspection
and remedial work as a condition of the mortgage.

On 25/09/2019 00:01, Fredxx wrote:
It is something they can ask for in advance of a payout.

Why would they do that, if the reason for the payout was a
chip pan fire, or hubby dropped a hammer through the
wash basin ?

On 25/09/2019 11:57, Reentrant wrote:
Our recent Homebuyer Valuation didn't even mention electrics, even
though it had an ancient fuse-wire consumer unit.

That is not a survey. It merely informs the mortgage company
and would be buyer that the property actually exists.

Even if the 'surveyor' can see serious issues he won't
mention them specifically, but just add an ambiguous
phrase that the buyer might want to consider.

If you want to be told the full facts, you need a full
structural survey.

On 25/09/2019 11:57, Reentrant wrote:
On 24/09/2019 21:49, David wrote:
I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the wiring
should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Cheers



Dave R


Our recent Homebuyer Valuation didn't even mention electrics, even
though it had an ancient fuse-wire consumer unit.

But I'm glad we had it checked anyway; some sockets weren't earthed,
some were reverse polarity, there was no isolator for the hob, and worst
of all an electric shower was wired to the incoming side of the fuse box.


Some years ago a friend of mine needed a satisfactory EICR to obtain a
mortgage. I went and did the test. Not one socket in the house was
earthed plus a few other problems. This was a 1972 build.



--
Adam

Andrew wrote:

That is not a survey. It merely informs the mortgage company
and would be buyer that the property actually exists.

Even if the 'surveyor' can see serious issues he won't
mention them specifically, but just add an ambiguous
phrase that the buyer might want to consider.

If you want to be told the full facts, you need a full
structural survey.

My solicitor was suggesting, a very long time ago, that I should
have a full survey done for a place I was buying. I responded
that the report would be so full of caveats that there would be
great difficulty in taking action in the event of trouble, and
selecting a surveyor based on the adequacy of their insurance
seemed to be rather missing the point. "Not necessarily" he
replied "We have a number of such cases on our hands at the
moment." At which juncture I felt that he had made my point for
me.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
@ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

In article , ARW
wrote:
On 25/09/2019 11:57, Reentrant wrote:
On 24/09/2019 21:49, David wrote:
I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance
with the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Cheers



Dave R


Our recent Homebuyer Valuation didn't even mention electrics, even
though it had an ancient fuse-wire consumer unit.

But I'm glad we had it checked anyway; some sockets weren't earthed,
some were reverse polarity, there was no isolator for the hob, and
worst of all an electric shower was wired to the incoming side of the
fuse box.


Some years ago a friend of mine needed a satisfactory EICR to obtain a
mortgage. I went and did the test. Not one socket in the house was
earthed plus a few other problems. This was a 1972 build.

When I rewired our house in 9164, the electricity board tester even checked
that the screws on the sockets weer earthed!

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 25/09/2019 19:33, charles wrote:

When I rewired our house in 9164, the electricity board tester even checked
that the screws on the sockets weer earthed!


Would that have been all 6 of them?

Seriously how many sockets did you fit?

--
Adam

Andrew Wrote in message:
On 25/09/2019 11:57, Reentrant wrote:
Our recent Homebuyer Valuation didn't even mention electrics, even
though it had an ancient fuse-wire consumer unit.

That is not a survey. It merely informs the mortgage company
and would be buyer that the property actually exists.

Even if the 'surveyor' can see serious issues he won't
mention them specifically, but just add an ambiguous
phrase that the buyer might want to consider.

If you want to be told the full facts, you need a full
structural survey.


Which still won't lift carpets nor floorboards & will be equally
choc full of suggestive arse covering phrases that insurance co.s
live to squirm with given a chance.
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

In article , ARW
wrote:
On 25/09/2019 19:33, charles wrote:

When I rewired our house in 9164, the electricity board tester even
checked that the screws on the sockets weer earthed!


Would that have been all 6 of them?

Seriously how many sockets did you fit?

yes, serious typo (1964)

around two dozen sockets - all doubles as I recall. But we left that house
in 1977, so I can't be accurate

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Andrew wrote:

There are some free-standing fan flued boilers that pressurise
the casing. Great care must be taken with these (if any still
exist). A couple of BG engineers weere jailed for manslaughter
when they serviced one of these and didn't refit the casing
correctly, killing the occupants.

I'm not surprised if they were living in a boiler.

--
Chris Green
·

charles wrote:
When I rewired our house in 9164, the electricity board tester even checked
that the screws on the sockets weer earthed!

That's several thousand years in the future!

--
Chris Green
·

On 25/09/2019 20:29, charles wrote:
In article , ARW
wrote:
On 25/09/2019 19:33, charles wrote:

When I rewired our house in 9164, the electricity board tester even
checked that the screws on the sockets weer earthed!


Would that have been all 6 of them?

Seriously how many sockets did you fit?

yes, serious typo (1964)

around two dozen sockets - all doubles as I recall. But we left that house
in 1977, so I can't be accurate


Much better than the house I referred to. A new build (1972) which was a
3 bed detached had 2 x 1 g sockets in each bedroom, the lounge, the
dining room and a 1g socket on the landing and in the hallway. No idea
what the kitchen had as that was the only room with some alterations.



--
Adam

In article ,
ARW wrote:
On 25/09/2019 20:29, charles wrote:
In article , ARW
wrote:
On 25/09/2019 19:33, charles wrote:

When I rewired our house in 9164, the electricity board tester even
checked that the screws on the sockets weer earthed!


Would that have been all 6 of them?

Seriously how many sockets did you fit?

yes, serious typo (1964)

around two dozen sockets - all doubles as I recall. But we left that
house in 1977, so I can't be accurate


Much better than the house I referred to. A new build (1972) which was a
3 bed detached had 2 x 1 g sockets in each bedroom, the lounge, the
dining room and a 1g socket on the landing and in the hallway. No idea
what the kitchen had as that was the only room with some alterations.

when we moved in, there were 4 x 15A sockets - one in each bedroom and 1 in
the kitchen (a 1946 install)

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Wednesday, 25 September 2019 13:22:29 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/09/2019 22:12, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is potentially
dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used until it has been
inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3 Risks)."

This seems a bit extreme.
Standard butt covering or a real risk?

Floor standing does not necessarily mean its not room sealed - you would
need to check the model number.

If its not room sealed, then it would be *very* strongly advised to get
it checked sooner rather than later (or at least inspect the flame
pattern as a minimum).

and check the heat exchanger isn't fouling up, the flue is clear & the air intake is also clear. And that the flame is blue not yellow. Or pay for a professional test.


NT