I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the wiring
should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Cheers



Dave R

--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is potentially
dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used until it has been
inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3 Risks)."

This seems a bit extreme.
Standard butt covering or a real risk?

Cheers



Dave R

--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 24/09/2019 22:12, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is potentially
dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used until it has been
inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3 Risks)."

This seems a bit extreme.
Standard butt covering or a real risk?

That goes further than covering arse.

Condition rating 3 €“ defects that are serious and/or need to be
repaired, replaced or investigated urgently

If an engineer is called and there are no defect I would send the
surveyor the bill. He may, of course, be right. Have you blocked any air
vents?

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 21:12:05 +0000, David wrote:

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance
with the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is
potentially dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used until
it has been inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3 Risks)."

This seems a bit extreme.
Standard butt covering or a real risk?

Oh, and:

"The current arrangement of the conservatory is not compliant with the
Building Regulations and will need to be altered accordingly if the
accommodation is to be classed as being compliant."

As far as I know the older bits should be "grandfathered" in, and have no
legal requirement to be brought up to current building regulations.
Insulation requirements are below current - glazed with a plastic roof and
has a radiator in so is part of the main property - which wouldn't be
allowed by current regs.

These look very much like weasel words to bump up the cost of repairs.
It doesn't actually say that you are legally required to do the work; just
implies it by "if the accommodation is to be classed as compliant". Which
as far as I can see there is no legal requirement unless you undertake
major structural work and have to bring the rest of the property up to
current regs.

I may be reading too much into this, of course.


Cheers



Dave R


--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 24/09/2019 22:23, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 21:12:05 +0000, David wrote:

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance
with the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is
potentially dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used until
it has been inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3 Risks)."

This seems a bit extreme.
Standard butt covering or a real risk?

Oh, and:

"The current arrangement of the conservatory is not compliant with the
Building Regulations and will need to be altered accordingly if the
accommodation is to be classed as being compliant."

As far as I know the older bits should be "grandfathered" in, and have no
legal requirement to be brought up to current building regulations.
Insulation requirements are below current - glazed with a plastic roof and
has a radiator in so is part of the main property - which wouldn't be
allowed by current regs.

These look very much like weasel words to bump up the cost of repairs.
It doesn't actually say that you are legally required to do the work; just
implies it by "if the accommodation is to be classed as compliant". Which
as far as I can see there is no legal requirement unless you undertake
major structural work and have to bring the rest of the property up to
current regs.

I may be reading too much into this, of course.

The survey is commissioned by the buyers, the surveyor is using words
for them, so provide some bargaining power.

If they have agreed a a price then personally I would likely not budge
on price and put it back on the market if they're not going to commit.

Remember they have paid for the survey and probably don't want to shell
out for another survey on another house with potentially the same result.

It's your call, of course.

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 22:29:00 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 24/09/2019 22:23, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 21:12:05 +0000, David wrote:

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the
electrical wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC
registered, in order to outline any remedial works necessary to
achieve compliance with the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is
potentially dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used
until it has been inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3
Risks)."

This seems a bit extreme.
Standard butt covering or a real risk?

Oh, and:

"The current arrangement of the conservatory is not compliant with the
Building Regulations and will need to be altered accordingly if the
accommodation is to be classed as being compliant."

As far as I know the older bits should be "grandfathered" in, and have
no legal requirement to be brought up to current building regulations.
Insulation requirements are below current - glazed with a plastic roof
and has a radiator in so is part of the main property - which wouldn't
be allowed by current regs.

These look very much like weasel words to bump up the cost of repairs.
It doesn't actually say that you are legally required to do the work;
just implies it by "if the accommodation is to be classed as
compliant". Which as far as I can see there is no legal requirement
unless you undertake major structural work and have to bring the rest
of the property up to current regs.

I may be reading too much into this, of course.

The survey is commissioned by the buyers, the surveyor is using words
for them, so provide some bargaining power.

If they have agreed a a price then personally I would likely not budge
on price and put it back on the market if they're not going to commit.

Remember they have paid for the survey and probably don't want to shell
out for another survey on another house with potentially the same
result.

It's your call, of course.

This is an equitable rather than contentious negotiation.

We are trying to work out which items are genuinely a problem, and which
are just the surveyor trying to bet the price down for their client.

Which is why I am asking to confirm which phrases are flannel and which
reflect real legislation.

Most houses on resale will not comply with current building regulations.

Houses built before 1900 probably don't comply with any!


Cheers



Dave r



--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 24/09/2019 22:47, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 22:29:00 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 24/09/2019 22:23, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 21:12:05 +0000, David wrote:

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the
electrical wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC
registered, in order to outline any remedial works necessary to
achieve compliance with the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is
potentially dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used
until it has been inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3
Risks)."

This seems a bit extreme.
Standard butt covering or a real risk?

Oh, and:

"The current arrangement of the conservatory is not compliant with the
Building Regulations and will need to be altered accordingly if the
accommodation is to be classed as being compliant."

As far as I know the older bits should be "grandfathered" in, and have
no legal requirement to be brought up to current building regulations.
Insulation requirements are below current - glazed with a plastic roof
and has a radiator in so is part of the main property - which wouldn't
be allowed by current regs.

These look very much like weasel words to bump up the cost of repairs.
It doesn't actually say that you are legally required to do the work;
just implies it by "if the accommodation is to be classed as
compliant". Which as far as I can see there is no legal requirement
unless you undertake major structural work and have to bring the rest
of the property up to current regs.

I may be reading too much into this, of course.

The survey is commissioned by the buyers, the surveyor is using words
for them, so provide some bargaining power.

If they have agreed a a price then personally I would likely not budge
on price and put it back on the market if they're not going to commit.

Remember they have paid for the survey and probably don't want to shell
out for another survey on another house with potentially the same
result.

It's your call, of course.

This is an equitable rather than contentious negotiation.

We are trying to work out which items are genuinely a problem, and which
are just the surveyor trying to bet the price down for their client.

Which is why I am asking to confirm which phrases are flannel and which
reflect real legislation.

Most houses on resale will not comply with current building regulations.

Houses built before 1900 probably don't comply with any!


The caveats look to be capable of wild interpretation to the point of
being meaningless. 'Current regulations' might just mean that current
regulations do not apply. The exception is the conservatory - not sure
what's meant there.

Whatever, if any any mortgage is linked to that survey, the issues
raised will have to be sorted out before a sale can proceed.

Cheers, Rob

On Tuesday, 24 September 2019 22:47:36 UTC+1, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:

This is an equitable rather than contentious negotiation.

We are trying to work out which items are genuinely a problem, and which
are just the surveyor trying to bet the price down for their client.

all the latter - one can't rule out the possibility that there is an unexpected serious problem that has not been identified by anyone.

Which is why I am asking to confirm which phrases are flannel and which
reflect real legislation.

Most houses on resale will not comply with current building regulations.

Houses built before 1900 probably don't comply with any!

That's close to the truth, yet in most respects such buildings are fine. Not so much re insulation.


NT

David Wrote in message:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 22:29:00 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 24/09/2019 22:23, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 21:12:05 +0000, David wrote:

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the
electrical wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC
registered, in order to outline any remedial works necessary to
achieve compliance with the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is
potentially dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used
until it has been inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3
Risks)."

This seems a bit extreme.
Standard butt covering or a real risk?

Oh, and:

"The current arrangement of the conservatory is not compliant with the
Building Regulations and will need to be altered accordingly if the
accommodation is to be classed as being compliant."

As far as I know the older bits should be "grandfathered" in, and have
no legal requirement to be brought up to current building regulations.
Insulation requirements are below current - glazed with a plastic roof
and has a radiator in so is part of the main property - which wouldn't
be allowed by current regs.

These look very much like weasel words to bump up the cost of repairs.
It doesn't actually say that you are legally required to do the work;
just implies it by "if the accommodation is to be classed as
compliant". Which as far as I can see there is no legal requirement
unless you undertake major structural work and have to bring the rest
of the property up to current regs.

I may be reading too much into this, of course.

The survey is commissioned by the buyers, the surveyor is using words
for them, so provide some bargaining power.

If they have agreed a a price then personally I would likely not budge
on price and put it back on the market if they're not going to commit.

Remember they have paid for the survey and probably don't want to shell
out for another survey on another house with potentially the same
result.

It's your call, of course.

This is an equitable rather than contentious negotiation.

We are trying to work out which items are genuinely a problem, and which
are just the surveyor trying to bet the price down for their client.

Which is why I am asking to confirm which phrases are flannel and which
reflect real legislation.

Get your own survey done from your pov?


--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

In article , David
writes
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 22:29:00 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

On 24/09/2019 22:23, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 21:12:05 +0000, David wrote:

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the
electrical wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC
registered, in order to outline any remedial works necessary to
achieve compliance with the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is
potentially dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used
until it has been inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3
Risks)."

This seems a bit extreme.
Standard butt covering or a real risk?

Oh, and:

"The current arrangement of the conservatory is not compliant with the
Building Regulations and will need to be altered accordingly if the
accommodation is to be classed as being compliant."

As far as I know the older bits should be "grandfathered" in, and have
no legal requirement to be brought up to current building regulations.
Insulation requirements are below current - glazed with a plastic roof
and has a radiator in so is part of the main property - which wouldn't
be allowed by current regs.

These look very much like weasel words to bump up the cost of repairs.
It doesn't actually say that you are legally required to do the work;
just implies it by "if the accommodation is to be classed as
compliant". Which as far as I can see there is no legal requirement
unless you undertake major structural work and have to bring the rest
of the property up to current regs.

I may be reading too much into this, of course.

The survey is commissioned by the buyers, the surveyor is using words
for them, so provide some bargaining power.

If they have agreed a a price then personally I would likely not budge
on price and put it back on the market if they're not going to commit.

Remember they have paid for the survey and probably don't want to shell
out for another survey on another house with potentially the same
result.

It's your call, of course.

This is an equitable rather than contentious negotiation.

We are trying to work out which items are genuinely a problem, and which
are just the surveyor trying to bet the price down for their client.

Which is why I am asking to confirm which phrases are flannel and which
reflect real legislation.

Most houses on resale will not comply with current building regulations.

Houses built before 1900 probably don't comply with any!


Cheers



Dave r



Building regs electrical regs gas regs to the best of my knowledge are
never retrospective. But it is a while since I bought/sold a house.
--
bert

On 24/09/2019 22:23, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 21:12:05 +0000, David wrote:

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance
with the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is
potentially dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used until
it has been inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3 Risks)."

This seems a bit extreme.
Standard butt covering or a real risk?

Oh, and:

"The current arrangement of the conservatory is not compliant with the
Building Regulations and will need to be altered accordingly if the
accommodation is to be classed as being compliant."

As far as I know the older bits should be "grandfathered" in, and have no
legal requirement to be brought up to current building regulations.
Insulation requirements are below current - glazed with a plastic roof and
has a radiator in so is part of the main property - which wouldn't be
allowed by current regs.

Heating in a conservatory is still allowed, as far as I am aware - the
requirement is for it to have independent controls. In our case
timer/stat and a motorised valve (although we would have fallen under
the old rules by two days anyway) ... just like every other room in the
house!

Stevew

On Tuesday, 24 September 2019 22:23:48 UTC+1, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 21:12:05 +0000, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance
with the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

no requirement, no

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is
potentially dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used until
it has been inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3 Risks)."

This seems a bit extreme.
Standard butt covering or a real risk?

unsealed boilers do have some risk, they do kill people. But not many, most owners are content to leave them in place until they die eventually. The surveyor probably has no idea what condition it's in, and it's sensible to get it safety tested before use. Landlord's test is about £50. Most people don't bother though. A CO alarm is also a good idea for old unsealed boilers.


Oh, and:

"The current arrangement of the conservatory is not compliant with the
Building Regulations and will need to be altered accordingly if the
accommodation is to be classed as being compliant."

a circular argument, effectively saying you need to update if if you need it to be upto date

As far as I know the older bits should be "grandfathered" in, and have no
legal requirement to be brought up to current building regulations.

correct, normally. If it turned out to have been built 8 months ago that changes.

Insulation requirements are below current - glazed with a plastic roof and
has a radiator in so is part of the main property - which wouldn't be
allowed by current regs.

These look very much like weasel words to bump up the cost of repairs.
It doesn't actually say that you are legally required to do the work; just
implies it by "if the accommodation is to be classed as compliant". Which
as far as I can see there is no legal requirement unless you undertake
major structural work and have to bring the rest of the property up to
current regs.

correct

I may be reading too much into this, of course.


Cheers



Dave R

It's arse covering


NT

On 24/09/2019 22:23, David wrote:
Insulation requirements are below current - glazed with a plastic roof and
has a radiator in so is part of the main property - which wouldn't be
allowed by current regs.

If the previous owner has removed the original outer door
and/or wall so that theconservatory is part of the house
then this would not be allowed under existing Part L(2006).

If it was done after October 2006 then in theory you could
get the remedial work done and then go back and sue the
people who owned the building at that time.

Attempting to heat a conservatory is futile. You could
spend more money heating that one room than the rest
of the house.

On 25/09/2019 17:08, Andrew wrote:
On 24/09/2019 22:23, David wrote:
Insulation requirements are below current - glazed with a plastic roof
and
has a radiator in so is part of the main property - which wouldn't be
allowed by current regs.

If the previous owner has removed the original outer door
and/or wall so that theconservatory is part of the house
then this would not be allowed under existing Part L(2006).

If it was done after October 2006 then in theory you could
get the remedial work done and then go back and sue the
people who owned the building at that time.

There is a limited liability time on building regs violations. So the
LABC can't chase historic cases, unless they represent an immediate
danger. I don't much fancy your chances recouping the cost of historic
substandard work years after the fact.

Attempting to heat a conservatory is futile. You could
spend more money heating that one room than the rest
of the house.

Not necessarily. You may only need it heated for short periods of time.
Things like IR radiant heating (i.e. heat the people, not the building)
can make such spaces comfortable when required.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 25/09/19 23:35, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/09/2019 17:08, Andrew wrote:


Attempting to heat a conservatory is futile. You could
spend more money heating that one room than the rest
of the house.

Not necessarily. You may only need it heated for short periods of time.
Things like IR radiant heating (i.e. heat the people, not the building)
can make such spaces comfortable when required.

Well, we had underfloor heating (electric film - 1.8kW) installed in our
conservatory. Big, expensive mistake. If any form of heating is
unsuitable for a conservatory, it is underfloor heating. As it happens,
we use our conservatory mainly for growing plants (we do sit in it in
spring and autumn, and cooler days in summer. At other times it confirms
the definition that "a conservatory is a room which is too cold in
winter and too hot in summer"!).

The underfloor heating is set to come on at 10°C in winter. Other
"heating" is supplied by a 400W dehumidifier, as we find that
condensation from the plants is a real issue. The dehumidifier has a
major effect on discouraging black mould. If really cold weather is
expected (below -5°C), then a 1kW thermostatically controlled fan heater
is used to keep the temperature above 8°C, as the underfloor heating
cannot cope, especially if it is windy.

--

Jeff

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 21:23:45 +0000, David wrote:

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 21:12:05 +0000, David wrote:

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance
with the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is
potentially dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used until
it has been inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3 Risks)."

This seems a bit extreme.
Standard butt covering or a real risk?

Oh, and:

"The current arrangement of the conservatory is not compliant with the
Building Regulations and will need to be altered accordingly if the
accommodation is to be classed as being compliant."

As far as I know the older bits should be "grandfathered" in, and have
no legal requirement to be brought up to current building regulations.
Insulation requirements are below current - glazed with a plastic roof
and has a radiator in so is part of the main property - which wouldn't
be allowed by current regs.

These look very much like weasel words to bump up the cost of repairs.
It doesn't actually say that you are legally required to do the work;
just implies it by "if the accommodation is to be classed as compliant".
Which as far as I can see there is no legal requirement unless you
undertake major structural work and have to bring the rest of the
property up to current regs.

I may be reading too much into this, of course.

Further information.

The "conservatory" isn't a large separate area where you would grow plants
in the summer and not heat in the winter.
It is a small extension to the dining room with walls to knee height,
double glazing to ceiling height, and a sloping roof with double or triple
layer plastic glazing.
Integral with the dining room and with a radiator.

It wouldn't come up to current standards for insulation primarily because
of the roof but the additional heat loss doesn't seem that large.

I wouldn't even describe it as a "conservatory" because it is just a
dining room extension with a glazed roof and windows all round. Oh, and an
external door.

Cheers


Dave R

--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 24/09/2019 22:12, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is potentially
dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used until it has been
inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3 Risks)."

The boiler needs to have an air supply if it is not room sealed.
Typically a vent which should not be closed. It also should not leak fumes.


--
Michael Chare

On 24/09/2019 23:29, Michael Chare wrote:
On 24/09/2019 22:12, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is
potentially
dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used until it has been
inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3 Risks)."

The boiler needs to have an air supply if it is not room sealed.
Typically a vent which should not be closed. It also should not leak fumes.



There are some free-standing fan flued boilers that pressurise
the casing. Great care must be taken with these (if any still
exist). A couple of BG engineers weere jailed for manslaughter
when they serviced one of these and didn't refit the casing
correctly, killing the occupants.

Andrew wrote:

There are some free-standing fan flued boilers that pressurise
the casing. Great care must be taken with these (if any still
exist). A couple of BG engineers weere jailed for manslaughter
when they serviced one of these and didn't refit the casing
correctly, killing the occupants.

I'm not surprised if they were living in a boiler.

--
Chris Green
·

In article , Chris Green
writes
Andrew wrote:

There are some free-standing fan flued boilers that pressurise
the casing. Great care must be taken with these (if any still
exist). A couple of BG engineers weere jailed for manslaughter
when they serviced one of these and didn't refit the casing
correctly, killing the occupants.

I'm not surprised if they were living in a boiler.

ROTFL
--
bert

On 24/09/2019 22:12, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is potentially
dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used until it has been
inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3 Risks)."

This seems a bit extreme.
Standard butt covering or a real risk?

Floor standing does not necessarily mean its not room sealed - you would
need to check the model number.

If its not room sealed, then it would be *very* strongly advised to get
it checked sooner rather than later (or at least inspect the flame
pattern as a minimum).


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wednesday, 25 September 2019 13:22:29 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/09/2019 22:12, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is potentially
dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used until it has been
inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3 Risks)."

This seems a bit extreme.
Standard butt covering or a real risk?

Floor standing does not necessarily mean its not room sealed - you would
need to check the model number.

If its not room sealed, then it would be *very* strongly advised to get
it checked sooner rather than later (or at least inspect the flame
pattern as a minimum).

and check the heat exchanger isn't fouling up, the flue is clear & the air intake is also clear. And that the flame is blue not yellow. Or pay for a professional test.


NT

In article , David
writes
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is potentially
dangerous.
This is not a condition report
I would not advise that the boiler is used until it has been
inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3 Risks)."

Thank you for you non advice. If it hasn't been inspected how can you
rate it?
This seems a bit extreme.
Standard butt covering or a real risk?

The former.
Cheers



Dave R


--
bert

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 21:12:05 +0000, David wrote:

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:49:14 +0000, David wrote:

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance
with the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one.
The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is
potentially dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used until
it has been inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3 Risks)."

This seems a bit extreme.
Standard butt covering or a real risk?

Further information.

The boiler is old (similar to the one in the property we moved into in
1984) so no fancy pressurised bits, nor room sealing.

I am assuming those large "lift off" burners like an industrial oven which
are cleaned by lifting out and wire brushing then vacuuming or blasting
with air. However I didn't look.

The boiler is inside a large airing cupboard with a closing door and there
is ventilation through the suspended floor.

So potentially less risk than if it was free standing in e.g. the kitchen.

Safety check is sensible, but the boiler needs to be running for frost
protection.

Cheers


Dave R

--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Sunday, 29 September 2019 16:22:34 UTC+1, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:

Further information.

The boiler is old (similar to the one in the property we moved into in
1984) so no fancy pressurised bits, nor room sealing.

I am assuming those large "lift off" burners like an industrial oven which
are cleaned by lifting out and wire brushing then vacuuming or blasting
with air. However I didn't look.

The boiler is inside a large airing cupboard with a closing door and there
is ventilation through the suspended floor.

So potentially less risk than if it was free standing in e.g. the kitchen.

Safety check is sensible, but the boiler needs to be running for frost
protection.

Cheers


Dave R

it doesn't change anything, either you test it or cross your fingers.

On 24/09/19 21:49, David wrote:
I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the wiring
should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

The new owner may find that their buildings insurance for the new
property depends on them complying with any recommendations in the
surveyors support. Even if the wiring itself complies, the insurance
company may ask for the CU to be brought up-to-date if it is old, or
anything else which they consider could be a risk.

--

Jeff

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 22:26:28 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote:

On 24/09/19 21:49, David wrote:
I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance
with the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

The new owner may find that their buildings insurance for the new
property depends on them complying with any recommendations in the
surveyors support. Even if the wiring itself complies, the insurance
company may ask for the CU to be brought up-to-date if it is old, or
anything else which they consider could be a risk.

Assuming, of course, that the insurance company gains access to the report.
This isn't a usual thing as far as I know.
A mortgage company may place conditions for granting a mortgage if a
valuation survey is more than a drive by and turns up some issues.
I don't think I've ever seen an insurance company do that.
Then again I might have been lucky with my insurance companies.


Cheers



Dave R


--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 24/09/2019 22:43, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 22:26:28 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote:

On 24/09/19 21:49, David wrote:
I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance
with the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

The new owner may find that their buildings insurance for the new
property depends on them complying with any recommendations in the
surveyors support. Even if the wiring itself complies, the insurance
company may ask for the CU to be brought up-to-date if it is old, or
anything else which they consider could be a risk.

Assuming, of course, that the insurance company gains access to the report.
This isn't a usual thing as far as I know.

It is something they can ask for in advance of a payout.

On 25/09/19 00:01, Fredxx wrote:
On 24/09/2019 22:43, David wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 22:26:28 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote:

On 24/09/19 21:49, David wrote:
I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance
with the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the
wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

The new owner may find that their buildings insurance for the new
property depends on them complying with any recommendations in the
surveyors support. Even if the wiring itself complies, the insurance
company may ask for the CU to be brought up-to-date if it is old, or
anything else which they consider could be a risk.

Assuming, of course, that the insurance company gains access to the report.
This isn't a usual thing as far as I know.

It is something they can ask for in advance of a payout.

And that is the point. The "raison d'etre" of an insurance company is to
pay out as little as possible using whatever means possible.

We were caught out by a surveyor report's throwaway comment about the
wiring being old and so would benefit from a check by a qualified
electrician. And that's what led to us needing a new CU as the old one
was obsolete and the RCD couldn't be updated. The annoying thing is that
all this was not what we expected; we had bought a property which had
been underpinned due to subsidence (over 15 years earlier), and that's
what the insurance company said they were interested in - basically had
the underpinning been designed and carried out properly by specialists
in such activities? It had - they had no questions at all concerning the
underpinning, but did read the rest of the report, including the comment
about the wiring.

We could probably have argued the point about this, but companies who
insure underpinned properties are few and far between, and because of a
cock-up by Lloyds (who had previously insured the property) we found
ourselves without any property insurance for a week after we moved in!

--

Jeff

On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 00:01:04 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the
electrical wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably
NICEIC
registered, in order to outline any remedial works necessary to
achieve compliance with the up to date regulations."

As far as I know when the regs chnage it's from a given date. They do
not apply retrospectivily. Otherwise evrryone would have had to rip
out their plastic or wooden CUs and replace with metal ones...

The change of ownership, *may* alter this but I've never heard of
that either.

The new owner may find that their buildings insurance for the new
property depends on them complying with any recommendations in
the
surveyors support. Even if the wiring itself complies, the
insurance
company may ask for the CU to be brought up-to-date if it is old,
or
anything else which they consider could be a risk.

If they ask to see the report *before* offering cover and make those
stipulations in any offer they make.

Assuming, of course, that the insurance company gains access to
the
report. This isn't a usual thing as far as I know.

Agreed,

It is something they can ask for in advance of a payout.

Not relevant if the surveyors report is not required in the policy
T&Cs. The insurance company *may* require relevant, in date, safety
certificates for gas and electricity as part of the Policy T&C's.

The mortage company might stipulate in the T&Cs for the loan that
certain works are carried out and may also specfify a period after
which those works must have been completed.

Most "surveys" are barely worth the paper they are written on when
first produced. After that they are next to useless as they only
state the (vague) condition of the property at the time the survey
was carried out.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 25/09/2019 00:01, Fredxx wrote:
It is something they can ask for in advance of a payout.

Why would they do that, if the reason for the payout was a
chip pan fire, or hubby dropped a hammer through the
wash basin ?

On Wednesday, 25 September 2019 17:16:10 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 25/09/2019 00:01, Fredxx wrote:
It is something they can ask for in advance of a payout.

Why would they do that, if the reason for the payout was a
chip pan fire, or hubby dropped a hammer through the
wash basin ?

because they can often refuse a payout. It's business.


NT

On 25/09/2019 17:15, Andrew wrote:
On 25/09/2019 00:01, Fredxx wrote:
It is something they can ask for in advance of a payout.

Why would they do that, if the reason for the payout was a
chip pan fire, or hubby dropped a hammer through the
wash basin ?

In the event of needing a payout, how could the insurance company even
show that there ever was a surveyor's report?

SteveW

"David" wrote in message
...
I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the wiring
should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

No its not. Its just saying that it has to be safe
and continuing to comply with the regulations
at the time that the most recent changes that
had to be compliant is still compliant and
hasnt degraded or been modified since.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend
updating, but there is no absolute requirement.

Correct, its just poorly worded.

On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 14:30:26 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

This seems to be what the wording implies.

No

LOL

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

I've never heard of that. I think, though its wise to at least get a safety
check especially if you are moving in with young children, also if a kitchen
has the signs of recent installation get that very well checked. The sister
of a well known person was killed by a botched up junction box in a new
kitchen fitted on the cheap to help the resale value.

Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"David" wrote in message
...
I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the wiring
should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Cheers



Dave R

--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 24/09/2019 21:49, David wrote:
I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical
wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in
order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with
the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the wiring
should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no
absolute requirement.

Cheers



Dave R


Our recent Homebuyer Valuation didn't even mention electrics, even
though it had an ancient fuse-wire consumer unit.

But I'm glad we had it checked anyway; some sockets weren't earthed,
some were reverse polarity, there was no isolator for the hob, and worst
of all an electric shower was wired to the incoming side of the fuse box.

--
Reentrant

On 25/09/2019 11:57, Reentrant wrote:
Our recent Homebuyer Valuation didn't even mention electrics, even
though it had an ancient fuse-wire consumer unit.

That is not a survey. It merely informs the mortgage company
and would be buyer that the property actually exists.

Even if the 'surveyor' can see serious issues he won't
mention them specifically, but just add an ambiguous
phrase that the buyer might want to consider.

If you want to be told the full facts, you need a full
structural survey.

Andrew wrote:

That is not a survey. It merely informs the mortgage company
and would be buyer that the property actually exists.

Even if the 'surveyor' can see serious issues he won't
mention them specifically, but just add an ambiguous
phrase that the buyer might want to consider.

If you want to be told the full facts, you need a full
structural survey.

My solicitor was suggesting, a very long time ago, that I should
have a full survey done for a place I was buying. I responded
that the report would be so full of caveats that there would be
great difficulty in taking action in the event of trouble, and
selecting a surveyor based on the adequacy of their insurance
seemed to be rather missing the point. "Not necessarily" he
replied "We have a number of such cases on our hands at the
moment." At which juncture I felt that he had made my point for
me.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
@ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

Andrew Wrote in message:
On 25/09/2019 11:57, Reentrant wrote:
Our recent Homebuyer Valuation didn't even mention electrics, even
though it had an ancient fuse-wire consumer unit.

That is not a survey. It merely informs the mortgage company
and would be buyer that the property actually exists.

Even if the 'surveyor' can see serious issues he won't
mention them specifically, but just add an ambiguous
phrase that the buyer might want to consider.

If you want to be told the full facts, you need a full
structural survey.


Which still won't lift carpets nor floorboards & will be equally
choc full of suggestive arse covering phrases that insurance co.s
live to squirm with given a chance.
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/