"Robin" wrote in message
...
On 09/08/2019 16:15, NY wrote:

Even before that, I'd expect an emergency control room to have all the
paper OS maps, maybe unfolded, laminated and mounted on boards for extra
durability, for the area that they cover. (*)

I suggest it is mobile phones which cause many of the problems. Before
they came along the location of the landline was known to the 999 operator
who could pass it on the the services, and most callers would have been
able to say what they had done to get /to/ the phone from which the
services could work back.

True, but mobile phones have also reduced the time between the incident
occurring and the phone call to the emergency services, because people don't
have to start searching for a public phone. And a panic, I wonder how many
people can give correct instructions of where the incident is in relation to
the phone.

With a GPS fix (lat/long or OS, depending on what software is on your phone)
the emergency services in the 21 century should be able to pinpoint you.
Most in-car satnavs have an emergency-services-location menu option (for
those people who bother to work out where it is), and I always have my phone
with GPS turned on, so it only takes a few seconds to start GPS Status
(other apps are available!) to give a readout in OS "AB 1234 5678" format.

I've heard conflicting stories about how much information about your
location is sent by a mobile phone when you make a 999 call: some people say
a full GPS reference is sent (assuming GPS is turned on at the phone), some
people say the phone estimates its position roughly from knowing which masts
it is near, and some people say that no info is sent. I know when my wife
called 999 to report an emergency while I was driving, the operator knew
exactly where we were and said "you're passing a side-road to X... now!"
even before my wife had said where she was. That suggests an accurate and
frequently-updated position is passed to them.

On Wed, 07 Aug 2019 21:57:18 +0100, ARW wrote:

Basically between two villages. No houses, no pubs nothing (apart from a
field on fire).

You know the names of the villages and that is all.

Could the phone operator not work it out?

Our motor home broke down on Jura.
We rang the RAC.

Where are you?
Jura.
Which road are you on?
The only one - about half a mile from the ferry.
{sigh}
What can you see if you look out of the window?
Rutting stags!
{sigh}
We'll get somebody out to you in the next hour.

IIRC it took 4 days.
Had to get an HGV rescue truck out from Glasgow because we were too tall
to fit on a low loader.
That was some serious wild camping.

Cheers



Dave R

--
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charles wrote:
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Peter Johnson used his keyboard to write :
I spent 30 years in fire service communications and would have no
difficulty with that. Inputting locations using grid references was
never considered for the two systems I was involved with and I suspect
that the cost of putting in place a system that could accept them
would have been expensive and rarely used.

A paper OS map would have been comparatively cheap and shows much more
detail than Google does.

and how many would you need to access and how long would a paper map last?


One would hope that emergency services could look at any OS map online.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

In article 983547472.587062064.716533.tim.downie-
, says...


One would hope that emergency services could look at any OS map online.

Tim

UK Streetmap

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/

gives access to all the Landranger maps as well as others at
various scales.

It also has a useful co-ordinates conversion facility.

For example, ths is a random location on the Isle of Wight:

OS X (Eastings) 443859
OS Y (Northings) 87438
Nearest Post Code PO30 4QP
Lat (WGS84) N50:41:06 (50.684951)
Long (WGS84) W1:22:50 (-1.380531)
Lat,Long 50.684951,-1.380531
Nat Grid SZ438874 / SZ4385987438
mX -153680
mY 6532674
Mapcode GBR 8BD.ZR1
what3words ruffling.alone.amplifier



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Terry

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"charles" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Peter Johnson used his keyboard to write :
I spent 30 years in fire service communications and would have no
difficulty with that. Inputting locations using grid references was
never considered for the two systems I was involved with and I suspect
that the cost of putting in place a system that could accept them
would have been expensive and rarely used.

A paper OS map would have been comparatively cheap and shows much more
detail than Google does.

and how many would you need to access and how long would a paper map last?

Likely they would last a long time given how rare it would be
that anyone would call with a grid reference.

"NY" wrote in message
...
"charles" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Peter Johnson used his keyboard to write :
I spent 30 years in fire service communications and would have no
difficulty with that. Inputting locations using grid references was
never considered for the two systems I was involved with and I suspect
that the cost of putting in place a system that could accept them
would have been expensive and rarely used.

So how were locations outside a built-up area identified? When did people
begin to use postcodes as a means of identifying a place on a map in
addition to a postal delivery address. "Between Town 1 and Town 2" could
be a long stretch of road, and it would be difficult to identify even if
someone read distances off a road sign "Town 1 = 10 miles, Town 2 = 4
miles" if there were very twisty roads.


A paper OS map would have been comparatively cheap and shows much more
detail than Google does.

and how many would you need to access and how long would a paper map
last?

Given that we're talking about Google maps, we're in the era of online OS
maps as well.

Even before that, I'd expect an emergency control room to have all the
paper OS maps, maybe unfolded, laminated and mounted on boards for extra
durability, for the area that they cover. (*)

I wouldn't regard Google maps as being up to the job of identifying
locations given over the phone, because they lack landmarks such as
churches, rivers/streams, woodland etc which people might use when
specifying a location

Our google maps does.

("It's near Anytown church, on the road that goes to Anyvillage, just
before you get to the stream.

Did that last saturday, for a garage sale. Very poor description
of the location, 'third driveway in on the Whitton Road'
There is in fact a Whitton Road, but its in an adjacent town
tens of km away from the one she was talking about. Turns
out it was actually the road to whitton, which is actually
called the Kooba North Settlers Road. She didn’t even
manage to get the number of driveways right either,
there is another just after the turnoff from the Kidman Way.

Unusually she had included a mobile in the garage sale
ad and the mate of mine who is always first with me at
all the garage sales had rung her the night before and
had asked her whether she was near where he gets
chook manure from when she had said it wasn’t the
Whitton Road in Yenda. So I was able to report where
she was on my own facebook garage sale group where
I list all the garage sales so that those who use my
group could find it.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/N+...!4d146.0658902

That does have Mirrool Creek on it so my mate was able to tell me
that what she called Whitton Road was actually the first turn off on
the left after crossing Mirrool Creek.

Also, Google maps don't have OS grid references printed on them and the
search doesn't understand grid references.

Nowadays I'd expect emergency operators to be able to process all location
formats: OS grid ref (both all-numeric, and with initial two letter to
define the 100x100 km square), lat/long (DDMMSS and DDMM.MMM), postcodes.
And maybe things like Three Little Words. And then they should to display
that location on an OS map at a suitable scale (1:50,000 and 1:25,000, and
maybe 1:10,000 and larger scale in towns, to identify buildings as in
"it's near Jones the Butchers").

Another mate of mine runs the local SES.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Emergency_Service

I prefer to walk for exercise well out of town on rough bush tracks
and fire trails. I did wonder what would happen if I managed to
trip over and break a leg or something. No one would go past
for months where I walk. He said that they would love to get
a lat long and come and get me that way for the practice.

(*) I remember even in the early 1970s my dad bought several unfolded OS
maps of the area where we lived, and he cut them so they joined, and
mounted them on a large sheet of chipboard on the wall of his office at
home. Not sure why, because he didn't need them for his job, so maybe it
was more for interest.

Yeah, I have a full set of this part of the country that
I used before the internet or mobiles showed up.
Never mounted them on the wall, used them in the car.

Robin wrote
NY wrote

Even before that, I'd expect an emergency control room to have
all the paper OS maps, maybe unfolded, laminated and mounted
on boards for extra durability, for the area that they cover. (*)

I suggest it is mobile phones which cause many of the problems.

In fact it fixes many now that mobile phones report their
location to the emergency services completely automatically.

Before they came along the location of the landline was known
to the 999 operator who could pass it on the the services, and
most callers would have been able to say what they had done
to get /to/ the phone from which the services could work back.

And now when they call on their mobile, emergency services knows
where the mobile phone is, very accurately when the phone has GPS.

"NY" wrote in message
...
"Robin" wrote in message
...
On 09/08/2019 16:15, NY wrote:

Even before that, I'd expect an emergency control room to have all the
paper OS maps, maybe unfolded, laminated and mounted on boards for extra
durability, for the area that they cover. (*)

I suggest it is mobile phones which cause many of the problems. Before
they came along the location of the landline was known to the 999
operator who could pass it on the the services, and most callers would
have been able to say what they had done to get /to/ the phone from which
the services could work back.

True, but mobile phones have also reduced the time between the incident
occurring and the phone call to the emergency services, because people
don't have to start searching for a public phone. And a panic, I wonder
how many people can give correct instructions of where the incident is in
relation to the phone.

With a GPS fix (lat/long or OS, depending on what software is on your
phone) the emergency services in the 21 century should be able to pinpoint
you. Most in-car satnavs have an emergency-services-location menu option
(for those people who bother to work out where it is), and I always have
my phone with GPS turned on, so it only takes a few seconds to start GPS
Status (other apps are available!) to give a readout in OS "AB 1234 5678"
format.

I've heard conflicting stories about how much information about your
location is sent by a mobile phone when you make a 999 call: some people
say a full GPS reference is sent (assuming GPS is turned on at the phone),

It doesn’t have to be turned on on the phone, the phone turns
it on when a call is made to 999, 911 or 000 in our case.

some people say the phone estimates its position roughly from knowing
which masts it is near,

That’s whats done when the phone doesn’t have gps.

and some people say that no info is sent. I know when my wife called 999
to report an emergency while I was driving, the operator knew exactly
where we were and said "you're passing a side-road to X... now!" even
before my wife had said where she was. That suggests an accurate and
frequently-updated position is passed to them.

On Friday, 9 August 2019 14:12:55 UTC+1, Peter Johnson wrote:
I spent 30 years in fire service communications and would have no
difficulty with that. Inputting locations using grid references was
never considered for the two systems I was involved with and I suspect
that the cost of putting in place a system that could accept them
would have been expensive and rarely used.

When I were a lad there were TV adverts encouraging farmers and other remote dwellers to print their OS grid ref in big letters next to the telephone for use when calling the emergency services, so they must have had some mechanism for using it.

Probably a paper map as I don't think "systems" were in use back then.

Owain

On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 04:18:54 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


It doesn¢t have to be turned on on the phone, the phone turns
it on when a call is made to 999, 911 or 000 in our case.

You can shove your phone, like everything else, up your senile arse, senile
arsehole!

--
FredXX to Rot Speed:
"You are still an idiot and an embarrassment to your country. No wonder
we shipped the likes of you out of the British Isles. Perhaps stupidity
and criminality is inherited after all?"
Message-ID:

On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 04:11:21 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


I suggest it is mobile phones which cause many of the problems.

In fact it fixes many now that mobile phones report their
location to the emergency services completely automatically.

And you mindless consuming asshole, Apple, Google and M$ admirer of course
"think" this is a good thing! LMAO

--
Keema Nam addressing nym-shifting senile Rodent:
"You are now exposed as a liar, as well as an ignorant troll."
"MID: .com"

On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 04:06:49 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH 100 !!! lines of the senile troll's latest troll****

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:

On Fri, 9 Aug 2019 00:14:49 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

Dave W wrote:

Browser location is useless for me in Surrey because I'm on BT wired
broadband, and my IP address is often in Kent.

Do you want it to work? If so, do you have an android phone?

Of course not - I'm not a child!
--
Dave W

On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 03:44:52 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

and how many would you need to access and how long would a paper map last?

Likely they would last a long time given how rare it would be
that anyone would call with a grid reference.

HOW long a time, senile Mr Know-it-all? BG

--
dennis@home to retarded senile Rot:
"sod off rod you don't have a clue about anything."
Message-ID:

On Fri, 09 Aug 2019 00:46:12 +0100, Graham. wrote:

It is no toy, unless you're a child. It's an easy, effective way to
provide a location within 10m.

Change one number or letter in an OS grid...........

///monks.adjust.matter is our local tip ///monk.adjust.matter is
Powstancow Slaskich, Zernica, Poland

That's a deliberate design decision, so that you know it's wrong.

Some emergency services do use it. As it happens, I was reading an
article in Engineering & Technology Magazine just an hour or so ago.
Here's the link to the online copy:

https://tinyurl.com/y6epj4j2



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

NY expressed precisely :
Not sure why, because he didn't need them for his job, so maybe it was more
for interest.

I have maps around just for local interest. I sometimes also enjoy
browsing old maps for areas online, to see how things developed.

On 07/08/2019 23:26, Adrian wrote:
In message , ARW
writes
On 07/08/2019 22:13, Adrian wrote:
In message , ARW
writes
Basically between two villages. No houses, no pubs nothing (apart
fromÂ* a field on fire).

You know the names of the villages and that is all.

Could the phone operator not work it out?


Â*Would they be able to work with What Three Words ?


Field on fire next to the road between Branton and Auckley?


https://what3words.com/unpacked.width.outsmart ?


Assuming that I have the app installed how do I use it when I am on the
phone making a 999 call?

--
Adam

On 10/08/2019 11:08, ARW wrote:
On 07/08/2019 23:26, Adrian wrote:
In message , ARW
writes
On 07/08/2019 22:13, Adrian wrote:
In message , ARW
writes
Basically between two villages. No houses, no pubs nothing (apart
fromÂ* a field on fire).

You know the names of the villages and that is all.

Could the phone operator not work it out?


Â*Would they be able to work with What Three Words ?


Field on fire next to the road between Branton and Auckley?


https://what3words.com/unpacked.width.outsmart ?


Assuming that I have the app installed how do I use it when I am on the
phone making a 999 call?

Switch to speaker mode and switch to the app, you can then use the app
while talking or just ask the operator to hold for a few seconds while
you check and then put the phone back to your ear.

SteveW

On 10/08/2019 11:11, Steve Walker wrote:
On 10/08/2019 11:08, ARW wrote:
On 07/08/2019 23:26, Adrian wrote:
In message , ARW
writes
On 07/08/2019 22:13, Adrian wrote:
In message , ARW
writes
Basically between two villages. No houses, no pubs nothing (apart
fromÂ* a field on fire).

You know the names of the villages and that is all.

Could the phone operator not work it out?


Â*Would they be able to work with What Three Words ?


Field on fire next to the road between Branton and Auckley?


https://what3words.com/unpacked.width.outsmart ?


Assuming that I have the app installed how do I use it when I am on
the phone making a 999 call?

Switch to speaker mode and switch to the app, you can then use the app
while talking or just ask the operator to hold for a few seconds while
you check and then put the phone back to your ear.


Then what? I have downloaded the app to my phone and it shows me in my
house.


--
Adam

On 09/08/2019 14:12, Peter Johnson wrote:
On Wed, 7 Aug 2019 22:27:22 +0100, ARW
wrote:




Field on fire next to the road between Branton and Auckley?

I spent 30 years in fire service communications and would have no
difficulty with that.
Thank you.

I eventually gave the road as Milton Road and said the field that was on
fire backed onto that road.

All they had to do was drive there and look for the field that was on
fire. It's not hard to spot.

And the lads did an excellent job of putting out the fire, mostly by
hand at first, I assume water was used when they could get a truck into
the field.

--
Adam

On 08/08/2019 12:02, Robin wrote:

Recent phones should send location automatically.Â* Google implemented
Advanced Mobile Location (AML) on Android in 2017. It's on iOS now too.

Whether BT's operators or the emergency services can access it is
another matter on which I am ignorant.


That was odd when I dialled 999

When I ask for the police and am transferred they ask "Is that Adam
Wadsworth"

The Fire service obviously don't know me as well or do not keep records
of phone numbers.

--
Adam

In article ,
ARW wrote:
On 07/08/2019 22:13, Adrian wrote:
In message , ARW
writes
Basically between two villages. No houses, no pubs nothing (apart from
a field on fire).

You know the names of the villages and that is all.

Could the phone operator not work it out?



Would they be able to work with What Three Words ?


Field on fire next to the road between Branton and Auckley?

Coordinates from your sat nav or smart phone that does GPS?

--
*If only you'd use your powers for good instead of evil.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 10/08/2019 11:59, ARW wrote:
On 08/08/2019 12:02, Robin wrote:

Recent phones should send location automatically.Â* Google implemented
Advanced Mobile Location (AML) on Android in 2017. It's on iOS now too.

Whether BT's operators or the emergency services can access it is
another matter on which I am ignorant.


That was odd when I dialled 999

When I ask for the police and am transferred they ask "Is that Adam
Wadsworth"

You must have a criminal record.

--
Max Demian

On 10/08/2019 17:51, Max Demian wrote:
On 10/08/2019 11:59, ARW wrote:
On 08/08/2019 12:02, Robin wrote:

Recent phones should send location automatically.Â* Google implemented
Advanced Mobile Location (AML) on Android in 2017. It's on iOS now too.

Whether BT's operators or the emergency services can access it is
another matter on which I am ignorant.


That was odd when I dialled 999

When I ask for the police and am transferred they ask "Is that Adam
Wadsworth"

You must have a criminal record.


It's not a secret that I do have one. But I had a different phone number
then.

--
Adam

"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 07/08/2019 23:26, Adrian wrote:
In message , ARW
writes
On 07/08/2019 22:13, Adrian wrote:
In message , ARW
writes
Basically between two villages. No houses, no pubs nothing (apart from
a field on fire).

You know the names of the villages and that is all.

Could the phone operator not work it out?


Would they be able to work with What Three Words ?


Field on fire next to the road between Branton and Auckley?


https://what3words.com/unpacked.width.outsmart ?


Assuming that I have the app installed how do I use it when I am on the
phone making a 999 call?

You get the app to tell you the 3 words for your current
location and tell the call center monkey those three words.

"ARW" wrote in message
...
On 10/08/2019 11:11, Steve Walker wrote:
On 10/08/2019 11:08, ARW wrote:
On 07/08/2019 23:26, Adrian wrote:
In message , ARW
writes
On 07/08/2019 22:13, Adrian wrote:
In message , ARW
writes
Basically between two villages. No houses, no pubs nothing (apart
from a field on fire).

You know the names of the villages and that is all.

Could the phone operator not work it out?


Would they be able to work with What Three Words ?


Field on fire next to the road between Branton and Auckley?


https://what3words.com/unpacked.width.outsmart ?


Assuming that I have the app installed how do I use it when I am on the
phone making a 999 call?

Switch to speaker mode and switch to the app, you can then use the app
while talking or just ask the operator to hold for a few seconds while
you check and then put the phone back to your ear.


Then what? I have downloaded the app to my phone and it shows me in my
house.

It would show you the location of the fire if you used it then. Or more
strictly where you were calling from where you could see the fire.

On Sun, 11 Aug 2019 04:29:26 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Then what? I have downloaded the app to my phone and it shows me in my
house.

It would show you the location of the fire if you used it then.

I'm still going to show YOU your place on Usenet, senile troll! LOL

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On Sun, 11 Aug 2019 04:25:42 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

Assuming that I have the app installed how do I use it when I am on the
phone making a 999 call?

You get the app to tell you the 3 words for your current
location and tell the call center monkey those three words.

Strange, it also only needs three words to describe YOU: sick senile
asshole!

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

In message , at 17:32:40 on Fri, 9 Aug 2019,
NY remarked:

I've heard conflicting stories about how much information about your
location is sent by a mobile phone when you make a 999 call: some
people say a full GPS reference is sent (assuming GPS is turned on at
the phone), some people say the phone estimates its position roughly
from knowing which masts it is near, and some people say that no info
is sent.

The phone doesn't estimate its cellsite position, it's done in the
network (which already needs to know roughly where you are for the
purposes of hand-offs between masts).

Of course, additional layers of location services software (like Google
mapping) can then send the answer back to the phone so they can display
it to the person holding it.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:

The phone doesn't estimate its cellsite position, it's done in the
network (which already needs to know roughly where you are for the
purposes of hand-offs between masts).

The EISEC system which BT uses to provide caller data to emergency
services gives the mobile's location in terms of an ellipse with given
major/minor diameters.