Its a door that is rarely used so not urgent.
Tried to unlock it and key would only turn about a quarter then jam.
tried all sorts of jiggling and a bit of force....no joy.
Next I tried snapping the lock, I wouldnt make a good housebreaker as it
took me an hour.

I am aware that it is the cam on the euro cylinder that operates the
mechanism and I used the cam on the end of a screwdriver but again a
partial turn and stop!

I have come to the conclusion that something in the door locking
mechanism has broken or jammed and was nothing to do with the euro lock.

My problem is the door is in locked mode so currently cannot access the
lock mechanism, within the `keyhole` I can see a metal piece that I
suspect the key cam would engage, but it wont budge.(it is difficult to
see properly)

So looks like I need to attempt to unscrew the hinges and hope I can get
the door off. (when the weather is better)

Any thoughts or ideas on this.

The local scrotes tend to use stolen JCBs

On 16/04/2019 19:06, ss wrote:
Its a door that is rarely used so not urgent.
Tried to unlock it and key would only turn about a quarter then jam.
tried all sorts of jiggling and a bit of force....no joy.
Next I tried snapping the lock, I wouldnt make a good housebreaker as it
took me an hour.

I am aware that it is the cam on the euro cylinder that operates the
mechanism and I used the cam on the end of a screwdriver but again a
partial turn and stop!

I have come to the conclusion that something in the door locking
mechanism has broken or jammed and was nothing to do with the euro lock.

My problem is the door is in locked mode so currently cannot access the
lock mechanism, within the `keyhole` I can see a metal piece that I
suspect the key cam would engage, but it wont budge.(it is difficult to
see properly)

So looks like I need to attempt to unscrew the hinges and hope I can get
the door off. (when the weather is better)

Any thoughts or ideas on this.

We had (something) like this happen- I say something like this, the
symptoms sound similar.

In our case, once we managed to gain access (a long story), I was able
to open unlock the door from the other side (inside) without an issue.
From the outside, it was still broken. Then, we just called the
installers as it was still under warranty and they replaced the eurolock
and perhaps other parts (I wasn't there when the work was done).

--

Smile for the camera ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxyL2_38EsQ

https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

https://www.jobcentreguide.org/claim...-benefit-fraud

https://childsworldamerica.org/anima...o-child-abuse/

On 16/04/2019 20:14, Brian Reay wrote:
We had (something) like this happen- I say something like this, the
symptoms sound similar.

In our case, once we managed to gain access (a long story), I was able
to open unlock the door from the other side (inside) without an issue.
From the outside, it was still broken. Then, we just called the
installers as it was still under warranty and they replaced the eurolock
and perhaps other parts (I wasn't there when the work was done).

Fortunately this is a 3rd side entrance door that we never use, but
definately not the euro lock as I have got that out. I am sure that
whatever the euro cam operates has broken or jammed but cant access that
part unless I get the door off :-(

On 16/04/2019 21:54, ss wrote:
On 16/04/2019 20:14, Brian Reay wrote:
We had (something) like this happen- I say something like this, the
symptoms sound similar.

In our case, once we managed to gain access (a long story), I was able
to open unlock the door from the other side (inside) without an issue.
Â*From the outside, it was still broken. Then, we just called the
installers as it was still under warranty and they replaced the
eurolock and perhaps other parts (I wasn't there when the work was done).

Fortunately this is a 3rd side entrance door that we never use, but
definately not the euro lock as I have got that out. I am sure that
whatever the euro cam operates has broken or jammed but cant access that
part unless I get the door off :-(

The trouble is, the eurolock operates a vertical bar within the door
frame that then operates two or more locking points. Even if the bars
are steel (perhaps cadmium plated) they may be sliding against
aluminium, this can lead to high friction. Hinge fittings are normally
concealed but you can remove the entire pin with an angle grinder which
is at least short of the JCB option that someone else suggested.
Alternatively, you can try to lubricate the sticking points with an
aerosol oil spray such as WD-40. If you have another similar door that
you can look at, you may be able to guess where the sticking points
might be. Then, you could drill small-ish holes (say 3-6 mm dia) in the
inside face of the door stile, and liberally spray the insides with
WD-40. If you can still apply forces to the vertical bar you may be able
to sense when you are starting to get it to move.

This can be fairly extreme DIY, but if you like a challenge it may be
cheaper and more satisfying than "getting a man in".

It will be a big help if you have a similar (openable) door to look at
to try to understand how it works.

On 16/04/2019 19:06, ss wrote:
Its a door that is rarely used so not urgent.
Tried to unlock it and key would only turn about a quarter then jam.
tried all sorts of jiggling and a bit of force....no joy.
Next I tried snapping the lock, I wouldnt make a good housebreaker as it
took me an hour.

I am aware that it is the cam on the euro cylinder that operates the
mechanism and I used the cam on the end of a screwdriver but again a
partial turn and stop!

I have come to the conclusion that something in the door locking
mechanism has broken or jammed and was nothing to do with the euro lock.

My problem is the door is in locked mode so currently cannot access the
lock mechanism, within the `keyhole` I can see a metal piece that I
suspect the key cam would engage, but it wont budge.(it is difficult to
see properly)

So looks like I need to attempt to unscrew the hinges and hope I can get
the door off. (when the weather is better)

Any thoughts or ideas on this.

FWIW I've just had something very similar here - except it is the lock*.
Maybe the lock needs a bit more 'engagement' on the cam than it/you are
giving? Mine has always had a slight quirk - the handle needs lifting a
little extra to engage lock/unlock. Dunno. Anyway, a bit of sacrificial
WD40 into the lock mechanism and it turned.

* Yale branded bought on ebay, came in what seemed to be Yale box with
Yale marked keys. But I think it could be a fake, if only because it's
always felt less smooth than an identical lock on another door, and it
lets draughts through the 'key hole' (the other doesn't).


--
Cheers, Rob

On 16/04/2019 22:21, newshound wrote:
This can be fairly extreme DIY, but if you like a challenge it may be
cheaper and more satisfying than "getting a man in".

It will be a big help if you have a similar (openable) door to look at
to try to understand how it works.

Yes I have a similar door but will probably wait until the weather is a
bit better. I have a back & front door but for some reason the previous
owners built a porch at the side with another door on it....never use it
and I doubt if they did either.

On 16/04/2019 22:22, RJH wrote:
* Yale branded bought on ebay, came in what seemed to be Yale box with
Yale marked keys. But I think it could be a fake, if only because it's
always felt less smooth than an identical lock on another door, and it
lets draughts through the 'key hole' (the other doesn't).

I have plenty of spare euro locks from the time I was in to lock
picking as a hobby.
Interestingly enough when the key would only turn approx a quarter turn
thinking it was maybe the key I did manage to pick it with the same result.
Thats when I decided it was not the euro lock that was the problem.

On Tuesday, 16 April 2019 19:06:21 UTC+1, ss wrote:
Its a door that is rarely used so not urgent.
Tried to unlock it and key would only turn about a quarter then jam.
tried all sorts of jiggling and a bit of force....no joy.
Next I tried snapping the lock, I wouldnt make a good housebreaker as it
took me an hour.

I am aware that it is the cam on the euro cylinder that operates the
mechanism and I used the cam on the end of a screwdriver but again a
partial turn and stop!

I have come to the conclusion that something in the door locking
mechanism has broken or jammed and was nothing to do with the euro lock.

My problem is the door is in locked mode so currently cannot access the
lock mechanism, within the `keyhole` I can see a metal piece that I
suspect the key cam would engage, but it wont budge.(it is difficult to
see properly)

So looks like I need to attempt to unscrew the hinges and hope I can get
the door off. (when the weather is better)

Any thoughts or ideas on this.

I don't know if you can drill the lock out. You can get abrasive drill bits that go on angle grinders.

Hinges might be unscrewable, but if it's a multipoint lock, as it likely is, you might find the locking hooks are engaged regardless.

If replacing the door becomes the only option, of course one can cut the door plastic away to get to the mechanism. Not the cheap way to do things though.

I've not tried this - don't know if you can cut out around the lock then fit a plastic/wood etc block to take a replacement lock, and add push plates to cover it all.


NT

On 16/04/2019 22:21, newshound wrote:
On 16/04/2019 21:54, ss wrote:
On 16/04/2019 20:14, Brian Reay wrote:
We had (something) like this happen- I say something like this, the
symptoms sound similar.

In our case, once we managed to gain access (a long story), I was
able to open unlock the door from the other side (inside) without an
issue. Â*From the outside, it was still broken. Then, we just called
the installers as it was still under warranty and they replaced the
eurolock and perhaps other parts (I wasn't there when the work was
done).

Fortunately this is a 3rd side entrance door that we never use, but
definately not the euro lock as I have got that out. I am sure that
whatever the euro cam operates has broken or jammed but cant access
that part unless I get the door off :-(

The trouble is, the eurolock operates a vertical bar within the door
frame that then operates two or more locking points. Even if the bars
are steel (perhaps cadmium plated) they may be sliding against
aluminium, this can lead to high friction. Hinge fittings are normally
concealed but you can remove the entire pin with an angle grinder which
is at least short of the JCB option that someone else suggested.
Alternatively, you can try to lubricate the sticking points with an
aerosol oil spray such as WD-40. If you have another similar door that
you can look at, you may be able to guess where the sticking points
might be. Then, you could drill small-ish holes (say 3-6 mm dia) in the
inside face of the door stile, and liberally spray the insides with
WD-40. If you can still apply forces to the vertical bar you may be able
to sense when you are starting to get it to move.

This can be fairly extreme DIY, but if you like a challenge it may be
cheaper and more satisfying than "getting a man in".

It will be a big help if you have a similar (openable) door to look at
to try to understand how it works.

On the plastic door I have, it is lowering the door handle that would
move the vertical bar that opens the locks. To lock the door you have
to raise the handle, only if this is done properly can you turn the key
in the Euro lock.

--
Michael Chare

On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 22:55:16 +0100, ss wrote:

On 16/04/2019 22:22, RJH wrote:
* Yale branded bought on ebay, came in what seemed to be Yale box with
Yale marked keys. But I think it could be a fake, if only because it's
always felt less smooth than an identical lock on another door, and it
lets draughts through the 'key hole' (the other doesn't).

I have plenty of spare euro locks from the time I was in to lock
picking as a hobby.
Interestingly enough when the key would only turn approx a quarter turn
thinking it was maybe the key I did manage to pick it with the same result.
Thats when I decided it was not the euro lock that was the problem.

Don't forget that you can't turn the key unless you've fully turned
the handle to the open position. If you haven't used the door for some
time I suspect the handle isn't fully open. I find opening and closing
the handle with a full thwack against its end stops helps.
--
Dave W

ss Wrote in message:
On 16/04/2019 22:21, newshound wrote:
This can be fairly extreme DIY, but if you like a challenge it may be
cheaper and more satisfying than "getting a man in".

It will be a big help if you have a similar (openable) door to look at
to try to understand how it works.

Yes I have a similar door but will probably wait until the weather is a
bit better. I have a back & front door but for some reason the previous
owners built a porch at the side with another door on it....never use it
and I doubt if they did either.


If you never use it just leave it for the next incumbent?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 17/04/2019 02:32, Dave W wrote:
Don't forget that you can't turn the key unless you've fully turned
the handle to the open position. If you haven't used the door for some
time I suspect the handle isn't fully open. I find opening and closing
the handle with a full thwack against its end stops helps.

Yes I have 2 other doors with similar mechanism and I did do a fair bit
of thumping before I remove the euro lock. With the lock removed I
should have been able to use say an allan key to replicate what the euro
cam would have done but again that is jamming and not turning fully.

ss wrote:

I tried snapping the lock, I wouldnt make a good housebreaker as it took
me an hour

You were trying to use minimal force to avoid damaging the rest of the
mechanism/door, a "proper" burglar wouldn't give a toss and would give
it maximum violence ...

On 17/04/2019 08:26, Andy Burns wrote:

You were trying to use minimal force to avoid damaging the rest of the
mechanism/door, a "proper" burglar wouldn't give a toss and would give
it maximum violence ...

You are probably correct although I was thumping it with a hammer in the
end.

Is it one of those multi point lock systems where it has either plungers all
around or sliding pieces that engage in fittings on the frame. These have a
nasty habit of getting stuck if not moved for some time. I fear that by
breaking the lock you have made things a lot worse.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"ss" wrote in message
...
Its a door that is rarely used so not urgent.
Tried to unlock it and key would only turn about a quarter then jam.
tried all sorts of jiggling and a bit of force....no joy.
Next I tried snapping the lock, I wouldnt make a good housebreaker as it
took me an hour.

I am aware that it is the cam on the euro cylinder that operates the
mechanism and I used the cam on the end of a screwdriver but again a
partial turn and stop!

I have come to the conclusion that something in the door locking mechanism
has broken or jammed and was nothing to do with the euro lock.

My problem is the door is in locked mode so currently cannot access the
lock mechanism, within the `keyhole` I can see a metal piece that I
suspect the key cam would engage, but it wont budge.(it is difficult to
see properly)

So looks like I need to attempt to unscrew the hinges and hope I can get
the door off. (when the weather is better)

Any thoughts or ideas on this.

Or a blowtorch.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Cynic" wrote in message
...
The local scrotes tend to use stolen JCBs

On 17/04/2019 08:31, ss wrote:
On 17/04/2019 08:26, Andy Burns wrote:

You were trying to use minimal force to avoid damaging the rest of the
mechanism/door, a "proper" burglar wouldn't give a toss and would give
it maximum violence ...

You are probably correct although I was thumping it with a hammer in the
end.

I'd imagine you've got a decent anti-snap cylinder. Took me about 5
seconds to break a branded bottom of range - there was a couple of mm
sticking out to get the grips on, though.

--
Cheers, Rob

On 16/04/2019 19:06, ss wrote:

So looks like I need to attempt to unscrew the hinges and hope I can get
the door off. (when the weather is better)

Any thoughts or ideas on this.

Taking the hinges off won't help if there are multiple locking points on
different sides of the door. Check a different door to see how many
locking points that has.

I had a similar problem and eventually got the door to open by lifting it
within its frame. It seemed to progressively allow the rollers to clear
their slots. I really can't remember what the fault had been but I fixed it
prefectly with a new locking strip mechanism for the edge of the door.
About £20 off e-bay.

On 17/04/2019 14:42, DerbyBorn wrote:
I had a similar problem and eventually got the door to open by lifting it
within its frame. It seemed to progressively allow the rollers to clear
their slots. I really can't remember what the fault had been but I fixed it
prefectly with a new locking strip mechanism for the edge of the door.
About £20 off e-bay.


Did you just grab hold of the door and lift, or did you lever it up from
underneath?

On 17/04/2019 14:58, GB wrote:
I had a similar problem and eventually got the door to open by lifting it
within its frame. It seemed to progressively allow the rollers to clear
their slots. I really can't remember what the fault had been but I fixed it
prefectly with a new locking strip mechanism for the edge of the door.
About £20 off e-bay.

Success, I did the above, put a spanner on the square spindle, levered
up the door and then thumped the spanner.....door opened.

Still not sure what the issue is but will soon find it first warm day I
get and take the mechanism out, first quick inspenction it appears to be
working ok, with the hooks and bolts functioning.

On Wednesday, 17 April 2019 17:50:50 UTC+1, ss wrote:
On 17/04/2019 14:58, GB wrote:

I had a similar problem and eventually got the door to open by lifting it
within its frame. It seemed to progressively allow the rollers to clear
their slots. I really can't remember what the fault had been but I fixed it
prefectly with a new locking strip mechanism for the edge of the door.
About £20 off e-bay.

Success, I did the above, put a spanner on the square spindle, levered
up the door and then thumped the spanner.....door opened.

Still not sure what the issue is but will soon find it first warm day I
get and take the mechanism out, first quick inspenction it appears to be
working ok, with the hooks and bolts functioning.

May be the door is too low or the movable holes the hooks go into on the frame is/are too high.


NT

ss Wrote in message:
On 17/04/2019 14:58, GB wrote:
I had a similar problem and eventually got the door to open by lifting it
within its frame. It seemed to progressively allow the rollers to clear
their slots. I really can't remember what the fault had been but I fixed it
prefectly with a new locking strip mechanism for the edge of the door.
About £20 off e-bay.

Success, I did the above, put a spanner on the square spindle, levered
up the door and then thumped the spanner.....door opened.

Still not sure what the issue is but will soon find it first warm day I
get and take the mechanism out, first quick inspenction it appears to be
working ok, with the hooks and bolts functioning.


Just needs a new cylinder to lock it with :-)
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

ss wrote:

put a spanner on the square spindle, levered up the door and then
thumped the spanner.....door opened.
Still not sure what the issue is

Sealed units not properly heel'n'toed causing the door to sag out of square?

http://www.suttonlocksmithsandglaziersofhull.co.uk/images/door-heel-toed.png

On 17/04/2019 18:27, Jim K.. wrote:
Just needs a new cylinder to lock it with:-)

Got a few cylinders but for the moment not required, the door is well
secure.....and alarmed.

ss wrote:

On 17/04/2019 14:58, GB wrote:
I had a similar problem and eventually got the door to open by lifting it
within its frame. It seemed to progressively allow the rollers to clear
their slots. I really can't remember what the fault had been but I fixed it
prefectly with a new locking strip mechanism for the edge of the door.
About £20 off e-bay.

Success, I did the above, put a spanner on the square spindle, levered
up the door and then thumped the spanner.....door opened.

Still not sure what the issue is but will soon find it first warm day I
get and take the mechanism out, first quick inspenction it appears to be
working ok, with the hooks and bolts functioning.

I had a similar mechanism that was very stiff to open or close and found
the whole length of the strip up the door was covered in gummy residue,
presumably of some lubricant. Very thorough cleaning of the strip,
pivots and hooks, and silicon grease, enabled it to work freely.

--

Roger Hayter

On 17/04/2019 18:46, Andy Burns wrote:
ss wrote:

put a spanner on the square spindle, levered up the door and then
thumped the spanner.....door opened.
Still not sure what the issue is

Sealed units not properly heel'n'toed causing the door to sag out of
square?

http://www.suttonlocksmithsandglaziersofhull.co.uk/images/door-heel-toed.png


You may well be correct as a quick visual looks out of square, I think I
will try adjusting the hinges then check the mechanism and take it from
there.

ss Wrote in message:
On 17/04/2019 18:27, Jim K.. wrote:
Just needs a new cylinder to lock it with:-)

Got a few cylinders but for the moment not required, the door is well
secure.....and alarmed.


I thought you snapped the euro lock? What stops a scrote
now
opening it & gaining access?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Wed, 17 Apr 2019 08:08:02 +0100, ss wrote:

With the lock removed I
should have been able to use say an allan key to replicate what the euro
cam would have done but again that is jamming and not turning fully.

There is a just-the-cam "key" to open Euro locks without a cylinder, measure for
the cylinder, and turn various square pegs... the German name for it is
"Baustellenschluessel" ("site key", maybe?):
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bauschluessel.jpg#/media/File:Bauschluessel.jpg

-- do a google and you'll see oodles. Maybe that'll get a bit more force on it?


Thomas Prufer

On 17/04/2019 00:35, Michael Chare wrote:


On the plastic door I have, it is lowering the door handle that would
move the vertical bar that opens the locks.Â* To lock the door you have
to raise the handle, only if this is done properly can you turn the key
in the Euro lock.


My next door neighbour had problems with the locking mechanism sticking
and the short term solution was to pull the door towards you[1] with the
handle whilst turning the key. This seemed to centre the bolt mechanism
in the aligning holes better to give less friction when unlocking.

[1] when using the key from the outside - forcing the door against the
door jam.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Thomas Prufer wrote:

There is a just-the-cam "key" to open Euro locks without a cylinder, measure for
the cylinder, and turn various square pegs... the German name for it is
"Baustellenschluessel" ("site key", maybe?):

euro cylinder servicing tool

https://amazon.co.uk/dp/B00B9X40G2

On 18/04/2019 07:58, Jim K.. wrote:
I thought you snapped the euro lock? What stops a scrote
now
opening it & gaining access?

I did snap the lock, but I have it so the handle does not engage from
the outside. and you would need more than brute force to open the door
inwards to gain access.