Hello friends,

My old UPVC front door won't open, as of this morning. The key turns forever, but it is not releasing the lock. It has a multipoint espagnolette lock with 4x mushroom studs, very much like the one in the link below, but perhaps a different make:

http://tinyurl.com/jxlj9qt

The gearbox may have worn out. Is there any way to get it unlocked without destroying the door?

It looks as though the hinges could be released by removing the pin from each, but I'm not sure if that will help, because the mushroom studs will still be engaged at the lock side.

If all else fails, I may be able to get hold of a replacement used door, complete with frame and lock. So if I can't get this jammed door open, I guess I'll have to cut the frame out with a stone cutter and replace the whole door. However, I really hope that won't be necessary.

Many thanks for any help here!

JD

JD wrote:

Is there any way to get it unlocked without destroying the door?

Might be the barrel, rather than the gearbox ... I'd start by popping to
the nearest DIY shed, buying an el-cheapo replacement euro barrel of
appropriate length, then remove the handles, drill out the old barrel
and see what I could do with length of wire coathanger. If you get it
open, fit the temporary barrel then replace with a decent barrel later.

On Monday, October 24, 2016 at 9:42:19 AM UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
JD wrote:

Is there any way to get it unlocked without destroying the door?

Might be the barrel, rather than the gearbox ... I'd start by popping to
the nearest DIY shed, buying an el-cheapo replacement euro barrel of
appropriate length, then remove the handles, drill out the old barrel
and see what I could do with length of wire coathanger. If you get it
open, fit the temporary barrel then replace with a decent barrel later.

Andy,
Many thanks for the suggestion. I will try that. Unfortunately one of the screws holding the handle on seems impossible to remove. I may have to try and drill it out.

By the way, contrary to what I said about mushroom studs, I now seem to recall it probably has roller studs like the ones at the bottom in this image:

http://tinyurl.com/jrgbelf

....in which case it may be possible to remove the door from the frame by removing the pins from the hinges, if my logic is correct.

JD

I was going to say, though not cheap a locksmith has to have come across
this before and no doubt has a fix.
Brian

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"Andy Burns" wrote in message
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JD wrote:

Is there any way to get it unlocked without destroying the door?

Might be the barrel, rather than the gearbox ... I'd start by popping to
the nearest DIY shed, buying an el-cheapo replacement euro barrel of
appropriate length, then remove the handles, drill out the old barrel and
see what I could do with length of wire coathanger. If you get it open,
fit the temporary barrel then replace with a decent barrel later.

Brian Gaff wrote:

a locksmith has to have come across this before and no doubt has a
fix.

But this isn't uk.get-a-little-man-in and drilling out the barrel or
removing the hinges as the O/P is thinking of aren't likely to hamper
whatever a locksmith would try, if it comes to that ...

On 24/10/2016 09:42, Andy Burns wrote:
JD wrote:

Is there any way to get it unlocked without destroying the door?

Might be the barrel, rather than the gearbox ... I'd start by popping to
the nearest DIY shed, buying an el-cheapo replacement euro barrel of
appropriate length, then remove the handles, drill out the old barrel
and see what I could do with length of wire coathanger. If you get it
open, fit the temporary barrel then replace with a decent barrel later.

Why remove the handles? I would try to drill through the Euro barrel at
the level of the retaining screw and then hope it pushes out.

Does the key keep turning from both sides of the door?

These people are helpful and might know the best way to approach the
problem:

http://upvcspares4repairs.co.uk


--
Michael Chare

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Michael Chare wrote:

Why remove the handles?

It's easy to do and might prevent them getting scratched if the drill
slips, plus it might make it easier to poke the coathanger in.

On 24/10/2016 09:33, JD wrote:
Hello friends,

My old UPVC front door won't open, as of this morning. The key turns
forever, but it is not releasing the lock. It has a multipoint
espagnolette lock with 4x mushroom studs, very much like the one in
the link below, but perhaps a different make:

http://tinyurl.com/jxlj9qt

The gearbox may have worn out. Is there any way to get it unlocked
without destroying the door?

It looks as though the hinges could be released by removing the pin
from each, but I'm not sure if that will help, because the mushroom
studs will still be engaged at the lock side.

If all else fails, I may be able to get hold of a replacement used
door, complete with frame and lock. So if I can't get this jammed
door open, I guess I'll have to cut the frame out with a stone cutter
and replace the whole door. However, I really hope that won't be
necessary.

Many thanks for any help here!

JD




There are plenty of guys set up to service PVC windows & doors - they
will sort this quickly.

On Monday, October 24, 2016 at 12:44:10 PM UTC+1, Michael Chare wrote:

Why remove the handles? I would try to drill through the Euro barrel at
the level of the retaining screw and then hope it pushes out.

Michael,
Yes, that seems to be an option - if I can figure out what level the retaining screw is.

Does the key keep turning from both sides of the door?

Yes. The inside has a flat knob rather than a key+keyhole, but yes, they both turn freely, with no effect, on each side.

These people are helpful and might know the best way to approach the
problem:

http://upvcspares4repairs.co.uk

Many thanks for the input. It looks like one option would be to take the pins out of the hinges and try removing the door. I might try this when I get back home, weather permitting.

JD

JD wrote:

Michael Chare wrote:

I would try to drill through the Euro barrel at
the level of the retaining screw and then hope it pushes out.

Yes, that seems to be an option - if I can figure out what level the retaining screw is.

About 5mm up from the bottom of the euro cylinder

On 10/24/2016 12:24 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
Brian Gaff wrote:

a locksmith has to have come across this before and no doubt has a
fix.

But this isn't uk.get-a-little-man-in and drilling out the barrel or
removing the hinges as the O/P is thinking of aren't likely to hamper
whatever a locksmith would try, if it comes to that ...


Sometimes the wise DIY person may take that route. A neighbour of mine
lost his key for a quality mortise deadlock on a Sunday evening (he had
a spare key indoors). I offered to break in via a small double glazed
bathroom window to minimise costs, but a locksmith got him in within the
hour for £80.

I managed to open one by levering the door up and down. I guess it made the
pegs lift out of the slots. It was all a bit random and desperate.

On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 12:11:27 AM UTC+1, DerbyBorn wrote:


I managed to open one by levering the door up and down. I guess it made the
pegs lift out of the slots. It was all a bit random and desperate.

Thanks for your input. I may try this.
JD

On Monday, October 24, 2016 at 1:43:39 PM UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
JD wrote:

Michael Chare wrote:

I would try to drill through the Euro barrel at
the level of the retaining screw and then hope it pushes out.

Yes, that seems to be an option - if I can figure out what level the retaining screw is.

About 5mm up from the bottom of the euro cylinder

Thank you. I got the euro-cylinder out. The euro-cylinder itself seems okay.. The problem seems to be that the ring-gear that gets turned by the Euro-cylinder's projecting lug isn't having any effect when it is turned. maybe one of the internal gears is stripped of its teeth or something.

I should mention that the gearbox is of the type that requires two full turns of the key to unlock the door. Do you think it is possible to pick the locking mechanism inside the gearbox, still? I had a poke around with a back-to-front allen key held with mole grips but didn't have any luck. It might help if I could envisage what is inside the gearbox, and what needs to be moved.

JD

On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 12:11:27 AM UTC+1, DerbyBorn wrote:


I managed to open one by levering the door up and down. I guess it made the
pegs lift out of the slots. It was all a bit random and desperate.

PS... It worked!!! Thanks million; you saved the day! Thank God for the plasticity of plastic! (It may have been almost-unclocked too.) Now I need to see if the lock/gearbox can be replaced.

Here is s photo of what I took out (with the face-plate removed):

http://fffbook.com/lock1.jpg

If anyone can give me advice on replacing this. I would be very grateful.

I can't see any stripped gears, but it still doesn't seem to be engaging. Do I need to find an exact replacement, or should I just look for a 'universal' one with the correct offset, etc.?
TIA,
JD

JD

On Monday, October 24, 2016 at 1:43:39 PM UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:

About 5mm up from the bottom of the euro cylinder

PS - I got the door open! Here is a photo of the gearbox I removed (with cover removed):

http://fffbook.com/lock1.jpg

I can;t see any stripped gears, but the ring-gear still doesn't seem to engage. The paper sticker is in German. Any tips on finding an affordable replacement?

Thanks again,

JD

I got an "original" from
http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/upvcspares4repairs

Risky to not take the opportunity to replace it - it seemed well
lubricated. Glad you managed to get it open.

On Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 6:26:46 PM UTC+1, DerbyBorn wrote:



I got an "original" from
http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/upvcspares4repairs

Risky to not take the opportunity to replace it - it seemed well
lubricated. Glad you managed to get it open.

Thanks for the lead. Yes, I like that dealer - I've had stuff from him before.
JD