I bought a lenovo 10" tablet in November as a present for my adult daughter.. Just prior to Christmas she left it overnight on a wide window cill. In the morning she found a crack across the glass screen. It had not been subject to dropping or any other impact.
I returned it to the Argos shop where I had bought it and it was duly sent off for investigation. Today I received a telephone call to say a replacement screen was not covered under warranty and replacement would cost £130 (the tablet was £110 new).
I refused the repair cost and the tablet will be returned to me.
However it seems to me unreasonable to have a crack develop in such circumstances. I would expect stresses in the unit during manufacture to have a bearing on this failure. Google led me to an almost identical case with Argos refusing to accept responsibility.
To help me to assess the true scale of the problem I'm curious if any members of this group have come across the same situation?

Cynic Wrote in message:
I bought a lenovo 10" tablet in November as a present for my adult daughter. Just prior to Christmas she left it overnight on a wide window cill. In the morning she found a crack across the glass screen. It had not been subject to dropping or any other impact.
I returned it to the Argos shop where I had bought it and it was duly sent off for investigation. Today I received a telephone call to say a replacement screen was not covered under warranty and replacement would cost £130 (the tablet was £110 new).
I refused the repair cost and the tablet will be returned to me.
However it seems to me unreasonable to have a crack develop in such circumstances. I would expect stresses in the unit during manufacture to have a bearing on this failure. Google led me to an almost identical case with Argos refusing to accept responsibility.
To help me to assess the true scale of the problem I'm curious if any members of this group have come across the same situation?


Not me but... did said window cill have a radiator under it?
Thermal stress?
--
Jim K


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Yes but it's off through the night.

Cynic Wrote in message:
Yes but it's off through the night.


What time's it come on in the a.m. ?
--
Jim K


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Around 7.30 I imagine.
Seems a bit odd if being in a central heated house is outside it's tolerance range.

On Thu, 03 Jan 2019 17:54:20 -0000, Cynic wrote:

I bought a lenovo 10" tablet in November as a present for my adult daughter. Just prior to Christmas she left it overnight on a wide window cill. In the morning she found a crack across the glass screen. It had not been subject to dropping or any other impact.
I returned it to the Argos shop where I had bought it and it was duly sent off for investigation. Today I received a telephone call to say a replacement screen was not covered under warranty and replacement would cost £130 (the tablet was £110 new).
I refused the repair cost and the tablet will be returned to me.
However it seems to me unreasonable to have a crack develop in such circumstances. I would expect stresses in the unit during manufacture to have a bearing on this failure. Google led me to an almost identical case with Argos refusing to accept responsibility.
To help me to assess the true scale of the problem I'm curious if any members of this group have come across the same situation?

I hear more and more stories of Argos refusing to honour warranties. And they used to be so good with returns....

Now isn't it the law that in under 6 months from purchase Argos has to prove you broke it, not the other way round? Take the *******s to small claims court, it's only £30.

Not me, but they do surely have a duty under law at such a short time of
ownership.

It should be just a walk in and swap job. Obviously they would look for
signs of misuse but as there would be none, I think any sane small claims
court would award in our favour with costs paid by Argos. These shops
especially at this time of year try it on, as I'm sure they do get a lot of
stuff back, but I think its always a good idea to bone up on the law and
talk confidently to a manager, none of this we will repair crap.
I'm wondering though at such a cheap price how it can be much of a
computer. Its probably go sod all storage and no room for applications and
will run like a slug in about three months.
Brian

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"Cynic" wrote in message
...
I bought a lenovo 10" tablet in November as a present for my adult daughter.
Just prior to Christmas she left it overnight on a wide window cill. In the
morning she found a crack across the glass screen. It had not been subject
to dropping or any other impact.
I returned it to the Argos shop where I had bought it and it was duly sent
off for investigation. Today I received a telephone call to say a
replacement screen was not covered under warranty and replacement would cost
£130 (the tablet was £110 new).
I refused the repair cost and the tablet will be returned to me.
However it seems to me unreasonable to have a crack develop in such
circumstances. I would expect stresses in the unit during manufacture to
have a bearing on this failure. Google led me to an almost identical case
with Argos refusing to accept responsibility.
To help me to assess the true scale of the problem I'm curious if any
members of this group have come across the same situation?

Come on, if it cannot stand that then its hardly much good for portable use
is it, It would get more stress from being in a car on a hot day for
goodness sake!
Brian

--
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The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Jim K.." wrote in message
o.uk...
Cynic Wrote in message:
I bought a lenovo 10" tablet in November as a present for my adult
daughter. Just prior to Christmas she left it overnight on a wide window
cill. In the morning she found a crack across the glass screen. It had
not been subject to dropping or any other impact.
I returned it to the Argos shop where I had bought it and it was duly
sent off for investigation. Today I received a telephone call to say a
replacement screen was not covered under warranty and replacement would
cost £130 (the tablet was £110 new).
I refused the repair cost and the tablet will be returned to me.
However it seems to me unreasonable to have a crack develop in such
circumstances. I would expect stresses in the unit during manufacture to
have a bearing on this failure. Google led me to an almost identical case
with Argos refusing to accept responsibility.
To help me to assess the true scale of the problem I'm curious if any
members of this group have come across the same situation?


Not me but... did said window cill have a radiator under it?
Thermal stress?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Sounds a little odd. I know a friend who had a problem with an Amazon tablet
screen simply sent it back after a couple of months and there was no
quibble about replacing it. It seems to me this is Argos being stupid.
Brian

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The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

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Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Pamela" wrote in message
...
On 17:54 3 Jan 2019, Cynic wrote in
:

I bought a lenovo 10" tablet in November as a present for my adult
daughter. Just prior to Christmas she left it overnight on a wide
window cill. In the morning she found a crack across the glass screen.
It had not been subject to dropping or any other impact. I returned it
to the Argos shop where I had bought it and it was duly sent off for
investigation. Today I received a telephone call to say a replacement
screen was not covered under warranty and replacement would cost £130
(the tablet was £110 new). I refused the repair cost and the tablet
will be returned to me. However it seems to me unreasonable to have a
crack develop in such circumstances. I would expect stresses in the
unit during manufacture to have a bearing on this failure. Google led
me to an almost identical case with Argos refusing to accept
responsibility. To help me to assess the true scale of the problem I'm
curious if any members of this group have come across the same
situation?

I have heard of this happening to Lenovo smartphone screens (such as the
Moto G5) but had assumed there was some minor impact that had been
overlooked. Perhaps not.

For example:

https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Moto-G5...creen-cracked-
without-drop-or-damage/td-p/3751411

On 03/01/2019 22:22, Pamela wrote:
On 17:54 3 Jan 2019, Cynic wrote in
:

I bought a lenovo 10" tablet in November as a present for my adult
daughter. Just prior to Christmas she left it overnight on a wide
window cill. In the morning she found a crack across the glass screen.
It had not been subject to dropping or any other impact. I returned it
to the Argos shop where I had bought it and it was duly sent off for
investigation. Today I received a telephone call to say a replacement
screen was not covered under warranty and replacement would cost £130
(the tablet was £110 new). I refused the repair cost and the tablet
will be returned to me. However it seems to me unreasonable to have a
crack develop in such circumstances. I would expect stresses in the
unit during manufacture to have a bearing on this failure. Google led
me to an almost identical case with Argos refusing to accept
responsibility. To help me to assess the true scale of the problem I'm
curious if any members of this group have come across the same
situation?

I have heard of this happening to Lenovo smartphone screens (such as the
Moto G5) but had assumed there was some minor impact that had been
overlooked. Perhaps not.

My Moto G Gorilla glass screen has survived several drops onto concrete
floors (not recommended) with only minor chips to the very edges. Most
tablets end up with a spiderweb of cracks if you drop them.

For example:

https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Moto-G5...creen-cracked-
without-drop-or-damage/td-p/3751411

It only takes a comparatively tiny nick together with a moderate thermal
gradient across the screen such as you might get with one end hanging
over a radiator and the other up against a cold frosty window.

I'm with Argos on this one - the unit has almost certainly been abused.

Thermal expansion and contraction can generate huge forces. In the days
before excessive H&S it used to be a demo in O'level physics to snap a
cast iron bar with a suitable metal rod contraption made red hot and
tightened up. Same principle as rivetting makes ships watertight.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 03/01/2019 17:54, Cynic wrote:

I bought a lenovo 10" tablet in November as a present for my adult daughter. Just prior to Christmas she left it overnight on a wide window cill. In the morning she found a crack across the glass screen. It had not been subject to dropping or any other impact.
I returned it to the Argos shop where I had bought it and it was duly sent off for investigation. Today I received a telephone call to say a replacement screen was not covered under warranty and replacement would cost £130 (the tablet was £110 new).
I refused the repair cost and the tablet will be returned to me.
However it seems to me unreasonable to have a crack develop in such circumstances. I would expect stresses in the unit during manufacture to have a bearing on this failure. Google led me to an almost identical case with Argos refusing to accept responsibility.
To help me to assess the true scale of the problem I'm curious if any members of this group have come across the same situation?

My granddaughter had a similar problem with a cheapo 7 inch "Alba"
tablet from Argos. The screen just cracked overnight just a few months
after purchase and Argos refused to repair or replace it under warranty.

The same thing happened to a friend of hers with a similar tablet
purchased around the same time.

In message , Pamela
writes
I bought a lenovo 10" tablet in November as a present for my adult
daughter. Just prior to Christmas she left it overnight on a wide
window cill. In the morning she found a crack across the glass screen.
It had not been subject to dropping or any other impact. I returned it
to the Argos shop where I had bought it and it was duly sent off for
investigation. Today I received a telephone call to say a replacement
screen was not covered under warranty and replacement would cost £130
(the tablet was £110 new). I refused the repair cost and the tablet
will be returned to me. However it seems to me unreasonable to have a
crack develop in such circumstances. I would expect stresses in the
unit during manufacture to have a bearing on this failure. Google led
me to an almost identical case with Argos refusing to accept
responsibility. To help me to assess the true scale of the problem I'm
curious if any members of this group have come across the same
situation?

I have heard of this happening to Lenovo smartphone screens (such as
the Moto G5) but had assumed there was some minor impact that had been
overlooked. Perhaps not.

For example:

https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Moto-G5...screen-cracked
-without-drop-or-damage/td-p/3751411

My experience with Lenovo might be slightly relevant. My Medion phone,
bought through Aldi, was actually a Lenovo. Lenovo own Medion.
The screen went faulty - not cracked, but didn't respond correctly. In
the original documentation, there were instructions about what to do if
there was a fault in the guarantee period. I rang or emailed (can't
remember) and found myself in direct contact with Lenovo in Germany.
I sent the phone off, it was repaired and came back. Screen fine,
plugged in the charger and nothing, so off it went again, was repaired
and was then fine. They just needed proof of purchase.

This December, I got an email from Lenovo saying there was a recall on
the phone battery and offering a replacement phone, "equivalent or
better".

I returned the phone and yesterday the replacement arrived. It looks
like a much more upmarket phone, but is running Android 5 rather than 6.
I am still deciding what to do.

In every case, Lenovo paid for carriage both ways.

If you have the documentation, in this case it might be worth trying to
bypass Argos.
--
Bill

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On 04/01/2019 08:54, Brian Gaff wrote:
Come on, if it cannot stand that then its hardly much good for portable use
is it, It would get more stress from being in a car on a hot day for
goodness sake!
Brian


I suppose the thermal stress could arise because half of the screen is
heated by the radiator under the window whilst the other half remained
cold. Still, I've not heard of that before.

On Fri, 4 Jan 2019 08:52:39 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Not me, but they do surely have a duty under law at such a short time of
ownership.

As has already been mentioned, in consumer contracts there is a 6
month "reverse burden of proof" in the Consumer Rights Act. If
something fails during this time the onus is upon the seller to show
the damage was caused by the user. The user does not have to prove
the cause of the fault existed at the point of sale.

If Argos have said the faulty is not covered by the Warranty that is
correct. However the warranty is in addition to your rights under the
Consumer Rights Act, not in place of them. It will be worth reminding
Argos that you are claiming under the Consumer Rights Act, not any
warranty. Remind them that the goods are under 6 months old and the
onus is upon them to prove the damage was caused by mishandling and
ask them to show you what their proof is.

Note that if you have already told the seller the item was given to
someone else as a gift then you have no Consumer Rights Act rights as
you no longer own the goods.

It is likely the shop managers will only know the "not under warranty"
mantra so having gone through them you will need to escalate the
complaint to the head office.

It should be just a walk in and swap job.

The seller is entitled to an opportunity to inspect the item before
agreeing to do anything. Given that most cases of cracked screens are
caused by users it would be a foolhardy seller who simply swapped the
item without inspection by a technician.

Obviously they would look for
signs of misuse but as there would be none, I think any sane small claims
court would award in our favour with costs paid by Argos.

The vast majority of cracked screens are the result of mistreatment.
Lenovo would not have inspected the tablet, almost certainly it would
have been a specialist repair company under contract to Lenovo or
Argos. They would usually photograph the item to show the reason they
believe the damage is user inflicted and will have produced a brief
written statement. Their reason for rejecting the claim could be
things like marks on the bezel or some Lenovo tablets incorporate
accelerometers which may have a log. In the absence of any such
evidence and photographs your case is much stronger.

In my experience (which is primarily dealing with damage to mobile
phones) not many of cracked screen cases get to a small claims court
and of those that do the supplier who photographs the items and shows
why they think it is user damage wins the great majority of them.
(Although the idiocy of some buyers was remarkable. One took a case
to small claims saying it wasn't liquid which had damaged his phone
but beer).

It is also the case that some major sellers seem to have a policy of
making life difficult for claimants in the hope they will go away. In
these cases persistence at the right level often pays off.

If all else fails the OP might have house contents insurance. If so
claiming on that might be the best bet.

On 03/01/2019 17:54, Cynic wrote:
I bought a lenovo 10" tablet in November as a present for my adult daughter.. Just prior to Christmas she left it overnight on a wide window cill. In the morning she found a crack across the glass screen. It had not been subject to dropping or any other impact.
I returned it to the Argos shop where I had bought it and it was duly sent off for investigation. Today I received a telephone call to say a replacement screen was not covered under warranty and replacement would cost £130 (the tablet was £110 new).
I refused the repair cost and the tablet will be returned to me.
However it seems to me unreasonable to have a crack develop in such circumstances. I would expect stresses in the unit during manufacture to have a bearing on this failure. Google led me to an almost identical case with Argos refusing to accept responsibility.
To help me to assess the true scale of the problem I'm curious if any members of this group have come across the same situation?


Warranty is not your friend but you do have one: see Peter Parry's
excellent post.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 04/01/2019 10:52, Bill wrote:

I returned the phone and yesterday the replacement arrived. It looks
like a much more upmarket phone, but is running Android 5 rather than 6.
I am still deciding what to do.

If you go to settings, then System, then Software Updates, you may find
it will allow you to update to a later one.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , John
Rumm writes
On 04/01/2019 10:52, Bill wrote:

I returned the phone and yesterday the replacement arrived. It looks
like a much more upmarket phone, but is running Android 5 rather than
6. I am still deciding what to do.

If you go to settings, then System, then Software Updates, you may find
it will allow you to update to a later one.


Been there, done that and last night it spent about 40 minutes doing an
update that included 2 restarts.

But it still says it's running Android 5.1.1.

It does seem to be old stock, but a slightly higher end phone. It seems
to work OK so far.
--
Bill

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Bill Wrote in message:
In message , John
Rumm writes
On 04/01/2019 10:52, Bill wrote:

I returned the phone and yesterday the replacement arrived. It looks
like a much more upmarket phone, but is running Android 5 rather than
6. I am still deciding what to do.

If you go to settings, then System, then Software Updates, you may find
it will allow you to update to a later one.


Been there, done that and last night it spent about 40 minutes doing an
update that included 2 restarts.

But it still says it's running Android 5.1.1.

It does seem to be old stock, but a slightly higher end phone. It seems
to work OK so far.

Id be asking/angling for something #better# than you bought (that
was recalled) not something that could be viewed as old stock
that they could never sell anyway (for the reasons you relate re
android versions)...
--
Jim K


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On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 18:36:03 +0000 (GMT+00:00), Jim K.. wrote:

Yes but it's off through the night.

What time's it come on in the a.m. ?

And was it a sunny morning? Though at this time of year heat from the
sun isn't that great at least not first thing. What time did daughter
get up and notice the crack? Adult is = 18, ie "teenager"...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 05/01/2019 10:22, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 18:36:03 +0000 (GMT+00:00), Jim K.. wrote:

Yes but it's off through the night.

What time's it come on in the a.m. ?

And was it a sunny morning? Though at this time of year heat from the
sun isn't that great at least not first thing. What time did daughter
get up and notice the crack? Adult is = 18, ie "teenager"...

I reckon she dropped it and won't own up. g

--
Max Demian

Max Demian Wrote in message:
On 05/01/2019 10:22, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 18:36:03 +0000 (GMT+00:00), Jim K.. wrote:

Yes but it's off through the night.

What time's it come on in the a.m. ?

And was it a sunny morning? Though at this time of year heat from the
sun isn't that great at least not first thing. What time did daughter
get up and notice the crack? Adult is = 18, ie "teenager"...

I reckon she dropped it and won't own up. g


Or wants a fancier one... ;-)
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Sounds a little odd. I know a friend who had a problem with an Amazon
tablet screen simply sent it back after a couple of months and there was
no quibble about replacing it. It seems to me this is Argos being stupid.

It's Argos passing the buck and the customer falling for it

tim,

On Thu, 03 Jan 2019 09:54:20 -0800, Cynic wrote:

I bought a lenovo 10" tablet in November as a present for my adult
daughter. Just prior to Christmas she left it overnight on a wide window
cill. In the morning she found a crack across the glass screen. It had
not been subject to dropping or any other impact.

These things can just happen for no ostensible reason. I remember back in
the early 70s a sherry glass that had been sitting on the serving hatch
suddenly shattering into a cobweb of broken shards completely unprovoked.
No one was near it at the time and the temperature was constant and there
was no sunlight anywhere close to it.
It's because these events are so rare that manufacturers know that the
chances of a genuine claim are remote. It's a bummer, but I don't see a
way around it.


--
Leave first - THEN negotiate!

On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 09:54:20 -0800 (PST)
Cynic wrote:

I bought a lenovo 10" tablet in November as a present for my adult
daughter. Just prior to Christmas she left it overnight on a wide
window cill. In the morning she found a crack across the glass
screen. It had not been subject to dropping or any other impact. I
returned it to the Argos shop where I had bought it and it was duly
sent off for investigation. Today I received a telephone call to say
a replacement screen was not covered under warranty and replacement
would cost £130 (the tablet was £110 new). I refused the repair cost
and the tablet will be returned to me. However it seems to me
unreasonable to have a crack develop in such circumstances. I would
expect stresses in the unit during manufacture to have a bearing on
this failure.

My first thought was "swollen battery" but I don't know if
there's /any/ likelihood of that in new equipment.

Following the information given above I wrote a letter detailing the facts and the legislation. Posted recorded delivery , received a phone call a couple of days later to say "customer service" had authorised a replacement and would I return the damaged unit when I collected it. A most satisfactory outcome.