I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler between oak
beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the ends
off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.

I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted 20
mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got
buggered. I took it back and got a refund.


The job is as you can see here..

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...4064881918.jpg
http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...n/DSC_0003.JPG

Any advice welcomed.


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 08/11/2018 17:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler betweenÂ* oak
beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the ends
off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.

I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted 20
mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got
buggered. I took it back and got a refund.


The job is as you can see here..

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...4064881918.jpg

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...n/DSC_0003.JPG


Any adviceÂ* welcomed.



1. Don't use masking tape, but something tougher? What do you have to hand?

2. Use better filler. I'm a huge fan of 1strike.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Everbuild-O.../dp/B001326TJA

It says 'no sanding'. I'm not convinced about that, but you do just bung
it in the hole, and it stays put without sagging.

HTH

Very nice house, by the way. Can we have some more pics of the views,
please?

On 08/11/2018 18:04, GB wrote:
Very nice house, by the way. Can we have some more pics of the views,
please?


They will accumulate as the renovation progresses. My ex left it in a
terrible state.


--
Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich
people
by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason they are
poor.

Peter Thompson

GB Wrote in message:
On 08/11/2018 17:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler between oak
beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the ends
off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.

I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted 20
mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got
buggered. I took it back and got a refund.


The job is as you can see here..

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...4064881918.jpg

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...n/DSC_0003.JPG


Any advice welcomed.



1. Don't use masking tape, but something tougher? What do you have to hand?

2. Use better filler. I'm a huge fan of 1strike.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Everbuild-O.../dp/B001326TJA

It says 'no sanding'. I'm not convinced about that, but you do just bung
it in the hole, and it stays put without sagging.

There are a few equivalent products.

The "no sanding" line is proffered as a positive feature not an
exclusion...

It is very quick & easy to sand as long as it's 100% dried...
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

GB wrote:

I'm a huge fan of 1strike.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Everbuild-O.../dp/B001326TJA

It says 'no sanding'. I'm not convinced about that, but you do just bung
it in the hole, and it stays put without sagging.

I like it too, rake out the hole, fill it once relatively roughly as
deep as it takes in one go, give it an hour or two, tamp it down firmly
by thumb, give it another hour or two, then re-fill it level with a
filling knife, 24 hours to properly dry, minimal sanding and never had
the cracks open up again.

On 08/11/2018 17:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler betweenÂ* oak
beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the ends
off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.

I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted 20
mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got
buggered. I took it back and got a refund.

Melted velcro means you are applying too much pressure.



The job is as you can see here..

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...4064881918.jpg

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...n/DSC_0003.JPG


Any adviceÂ* welcomed.

On 08/11/2018 18:29, newshound wrote:
On 08/11/2018 17:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler betweenÂ* oak
beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the
ends off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.

I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted
20 mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got
buggered. I took it back and got a refund.

Melted velcro means you are applying too much pressure.

No it meanss the sanding material fell off and I didnt notice



The job is as you can see here..

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...4064881918.jpg

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...n/DSC_0003.JPG


Any adviceÂ* welcomed.





--
"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
look exactly the same afterwards."

Billy Connolly

On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 17:44:25 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler between
oak beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the
ends off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.

I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted
20 mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got
buggered. I took it back and got a refund.


The job is as you can see here..

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...4064881918.jpg
http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...n/DSC_0003.JPG

Any advice welcomed.

Don't sand and don't mask. Hack off any unevenness before filling,
fill deep and scrape the filler back flush with the existing good
surface, then fill it smooth with a second coat once the first coat
is firm enough. Ordinary Polyfilla or one-coat plaster works fine
for me - if the edges open up after a while use decorator's caulk,
which will allow a bit of movement.
And cut the edge in properly with a bit of brush skill, ferchrissakes.

On Thursday, 8 November 2018 20:56:09 UTC, Rob Morley wrote:
On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 17:44:25 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler between
oak beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the
ends off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.

I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted
20 mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got
buggered. I took it back and got a refund.


The job is as you can see here..

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...4064881918.jpg
http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...n/DSC_0003.JPG

Any advice welcomed.

Don't sand and don't mask. Hack off any unevenness before filling,
fill deep and scrape the filler back flush with the existing good
surface, then fill it smooth with a second coat once the first coat
is firm enough.

precisely. It's way easier than overfilling then sanding back. Most people fail at it because they don't listen to the one golden rule: don't let even 1 grain of sand remain above the level surface. Do that and it's /the/ way to fill.

Ordinary Polyfilla or one-coat plaster works fine
for me - if the edges open up after a while use decorator's caulk,
which will allow a bit of movement.

any plaster/filler works as long as it doesn't slump.


NT

On 08/11/2018 17:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler betweenÂ* oak
beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the ends
off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.

If I were doing it I would sand the open areas with my posh Mirka RoS
(light and easy to use overhead and very effective dust collection),
then do the edges either with my multimaster (the oscillating action -
is rotary rather than orbital - so it will sand right up to an edge
without hitting against it all the time like an orbital does).

Alternatively I would use my Mirka hand sand block with vacuum extraction:

https://www.axminster.co.uk/mirka-ha...x-230mm-502673
https://www.axminster.co.uk/mirka-sa...ction-ax851921

With an Abranet sanding sheet and a vacuum hook up there is very little
dust which is nice when sanding overhead.

Rather than worry about sanding right up to the edge, I would be
inclined to caulk the final interface between ceiling and beam, so that
you have something flexible at the join. You can tool that with a fugi
type tool. The acrylic caulk will take a few days to dry out fully if
you use a heavy bead - but it shrinks back slightly as it does which
leaves a quite need slightly concave finish.

If you look at:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/9/9...werCeiling.jpg

The interface between tile and ply suspended ceiling is caulked and then
painted along with the ceiling - it makes for a neat (IMHO) finish at
the join.

--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 08/11/2018 20:56, Rob Morley wrote:
On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 17:44:25 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler between
oak beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the
ends off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.

I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted
20 mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got
buggered. I took it back and got a refund.


The job is as you can see here..

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...4064881918.jpg
http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...n/DSC_0003.JPG

Any advice welcomed.

Don't sand and don't mask. Hack off any unevenness before filling,
fill deep and scrape the filler back flush with the existing good
surface, then fill it smooth with a second coat once the first coat
is firm enough. Ordinary Polyfilla or one-coat plaster works fine
for me - if the edges open up after a while use decorator's caulk,
which will allow a bit of movement.
And cut the edge in properly with a bit of brush skill, ferchrissakes.


If I dont mask the beams get full of filler.

And it takes three times as long to get THAT off.


I have serious eye issues. And joint issues. 'brush skill' is
nonexistent. As is plastering skill. I can sand though.

It takes long enough to actually apply the masking, but at least I can
do it time and again till its right without it being irrevocable




--
Theres a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
that sound good.

Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)

On 09/11/2018 01:50, John Rumm wrote:
Rather than worry about sanding right up to the edge, I would be
inclined to caulk the final interface between ceiling and beam, so that
you have something flexible at the join.

The problem is that that implies you can stop the filler a fixed
distance from the edge. In fact I am using massive amounts of caulk - on
7th tube so far - to do what can be done that way, but this part of the
L shaped house features the 90 degree bend and the green oak was exposed
to rain longer because the roof was tricky to make in that part
because of the bend so the final shrinkage was far greater. Even the
longitudinal shrinkage of the main verticals is enough to cause cracking.

Across the 12" width of the central 12" square oak beams the shrinkage
is about an INCH

16 years on, its finally reached equilibrium and its time to sort it all
out.

I have tried about 6 different techniques so far, and this is the first
one that actually works, but am simply physically incapable of doing the
sanding by hand. At lest more than a half beam in a day, and there's 48
half beams in the ine room alone..


I have got it down a lot by being better at filling, but there is an
irreducible residue of sanding needed.

Are there multitools that don't need velcro pads?

I suspect that plaster dust and velcro are anathema




--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

On 09/11/2018 05:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The problem is that that implies you can stop the filler a fixed
distance from the edge.

Across the 12" width of the central 12" square oak beams the shrinkage
is about an INCH

As other have mentioned try and get the filler as close as possible to
the final finish without having to sand down afterwards. Possibly don't
try to get the finish in one go - fill to below the surface, key this
surface before it sets and then a final thinner filler layer.

What I've found useful to get a flat surface for filling over distances
of 12 inches is a taping knife which has a long blade and can be run
over the existing wall and the plaster to ensure one is flush with the
other

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Han...g+Knife/p25000

Toolsatan also do them in stainless steel and to 12 inches.

Plenty of cheaper/larger versions available on ebay


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 09/11/2018 05:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/11/2018 01:50, John Rumm wrote:
Rather than worry about sanding right up to the edge, I would be
inclined to caulk the final interface between ceiling and beam, so
that you have something flexible at the join.

The problem is that that implies you can stop the filler a fixed
distance from the edge. In fact I am using massive amounts of caulk - on

I was thinking more of filling up to the edge, but not bothering to try
sanding right to the edge. Then just covering the edge of the filler
with (tooled) caulk.

7th tube so far - to do what can be done that way, but this part of the
L shaped house features the 90 degree bend and the green oak was exposed
Â*to rain longer because the roof was tricky to make in that part
because of the bend so the final shrinkage was far greater. Even the
longitudinal shrinkage of the main verticals is enough to cause cracking.

Across the 12" width of the central 12" square oak beams the shrinkage
is about an INCH

16 years on, its finally reached equilibrium and its time to sort it all
out.

I have tried about 6 different techniques so far, and this is the first
one that actually works, but am simply physically incapable of doing the
sanding by hand. At lest more than a half beam in a day, and there's 48
half beams in the ine room alone..

Any hand sanding would need to be very quick and minimal obviously given
the scale of the job. Those proper sanding pads with handels etc make it
much easier. Also the ones that can be mounted on a pole make it much
easier - i.e. you can stand ont he ground and use full arm moevments etc.

Working overhead even with a lightish tool like a multimaster will still
get tiring.

The only other option I can think of for sanding right to an edge that
can also achieve a good finish, is a linear action sander. These aree
far less common than orbital or RoS machines. Festool do one:

https://www.festool.co.uk/products/s...q-plus-gb-240v

I have got it down a lot by being better at filling, but there is an
irreducible residue of sanding needed.

Are there multitools that don't need velcro pads?

There are some punched backing pads that allow for extraction through
the pad. I have not seen any with clamps to hold the paper.

Generally I have not had difficulty with the velcro type unless you
allow the pad to overheat (too much pressure usually - not that
difficult to do with such a small pad). Then they lose their ability to
retain the paper.

Axminster do some "interface" pads which are basically thin double sided
velcro sheets designed to sit between pad and paper. The idea being if
you knacker the velcro, you don't need to replace the more expensive pad
on the machine - just the interface pad. (they also have some thicker
spongy versions designed for curved surfaces)

I suspect that plaster dust and velcro are anathema

IME dust does not seem to cause it a problem... having said that, not
all velcro backing pads are made equal.


--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
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The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/11/2018 20:56, Rob Morley wrote:
On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 17:44:25 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler between
oak beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the
ends off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.

I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted
20 mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got
buggered. I took it back and got a refund.


The job is as you can see here..

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...4064881918.jpg
http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...n/DSC_0003.JPG

Any advice welcomed.

Don't sand and don't mask. Hack off any unevenness before filling,
fill deep and scrape the filler back flush with the existing good
surface, then fill it smooth with a second coat once the first coat
is firm enough. Ordinary Polyfilla or one-coat plaster works fine
for me - if the edges open up after a while use decorator's caulk,
which will allow a bit of movement.
And cut the edge in properly with a bit of brush skill, ferchrissakes.


If I dont mask the beams get full of filler.

And it takes three times as long to get THAT off.


I have serious eye issues. And joint issues. 'brush skill' is
nonexistent. As is plastering skill. I can sand though.

It takes long enough to actually apply the masking, but at least I can
do it time and again till its right without it being irrevocable

In you airplane hobby have you ever come across Humbrol Maskol which is a
liquid applied mask that dries to a thin rubbery finish and later is
peeled off.
Using it in quantity would be prohibitively expensive but perhaps someone
on here knows of something similar
available that is more economical, Copydex perhaps. More expensive than
tape but if it saves muscle pain.

GH

On 09/11/2018 11:06, Marland wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/11/2018 20:56, Rob Morley wrote:
On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 17:44:25 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler between
oak beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the
ends off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.

I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted
20 mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got
buggered. I took it back and got a refund.


The job is as you can see here..

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...4064881918.jpg
http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...n/DSC_0003.JPG

Any advice welcomed.

Don't sand and don't mask. Hack off any unevenness before filling,
fill deep and scrape the filler back flush with the existing good
surface, then fill it smooth with a second coat once the first coat
is firm enough. Ordinary Polyfilla or one-coat plaster works fine
for me - if the edges open up after a while use decorator's caulk,
which will allow a bit of movement.
And cut the edge in properly with a bit of brush skill, ferchrissakes.


If I dont mask the beams get full of filler.

And it takes three times as long to get THAT off.


I have serious eye issues. And joint issues. 'brush skill' is
nonexistent. As is plastering skill. I can sand though.

It takes long enough to actually apply the masking, but at least I can
do it time and again till its right without it being irrevocable

In you airplane hobby have you ever come across Humbrol Maskol which is a
liquid applied mask that dries to a thin rubbery finish and later is
peeled off.
Using it in quantity would be prohibitively expensive but perhaps someone
on here knows of something similar
available that is more economical, Copydex perhaps. More expensive than
tape but if it saves muscle pain.


Applying tape is in fact the quickest part of what I am doing. Then the
caulking is second, painting is minutes per bay. Filling and sanding
are hours per bay.

That's what I want to throw money at to get the time down

So far it seems that there are lots of suggestions but not many to
actually achieve what I want.



GH



--
"And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".

Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14

On 09/11/2018 10:52, John Rumm wrote:
Any hand sanding would need to be very quick and minimal obviously given
the scale of the job. Those proper sanding pads with handels etc make it
much easier.

I have that. Actually a permagrit block is damned good

One of the best acquisitions I ever made

https://www.permagrit.com/sanding-blocks/

Also the ones that can be mounted on a pole make it much
easier - i.e. you can stand ont he ground and use full arm moevments etc.


Just as tiring and less control judging by my pole mounted paint roller :-(

Working overhead even with a lightish tool like a multimaster will still
get tiring.

Tell me about it.

The only other option I can think of for sanding right to an edge that
can also achieve a good finish, is a linear action sander. These aree
far less common than orbital or RoS machines. Festool do one:

https://www.festool.co.uk/products/s...q-plus-gb-240v


£459?

****!

--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Filling and sanding are hours per bay.
That's what I want to throw money at to get the time down
So far it seems that there are lots of suggestions but not many to
actually achieve what I want.

I think you should be able to reduce the sanding time, and make it
hand-sanding rather than hoisting a machine over your head.

That probably comes at the expense of slower, more careful filling, and
time between two layers of filler, but as you've plenty of bays to do,
you probably have no need to actually waste time between layers, just
work your way round and then back to the start.

On 08/11/2018 17:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler betweenÂ* oak
beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the ends
off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.

I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted 20
mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got
buggered. I took it back and got a refund.




I may have missed it in this thread but Bill Wright suggested recently

"Wrap a bit of sandpaper round a multitool blade and secure with a dab
of superglue. Makes a detail sanding finger that will reach into places
other sanding solutions can't reach!"

I've not had cause to try it yet so please look North if it brings the
ceiling down


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 09/11/2018 11:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/11/2018 10:52, John Rumm wrote:
Any hand sanding would need to be very quick and minimal obviously
given the scale of the job. Those proper sanding pads with handels etc
make it much easier.

I have that. Actually a permagrit block is damned good

One of the best acquisitions I ever made

https://www.permagrit.com/sanding-blocks/

Also the ones that can be mounted on a pole make it much easier - i.e.
you can stand ont he ground and use full arm moevments etc.


Just as tiring and less control judging by my pole mounted paint roller :-(

Working overhead even with a lightish tool like a multimaster will
still get tiring.

Tell me about it.

Probably why many beamed ceilings use roughcast plaster between the
beams - that way all the imperfections are just "rustic"!

The only other option I can think of for sanding right to an edge that
can also achieve a good finish, is a linear action sander. These aree
far less common than orbital or RoS machines. Festool do one:

https://www.festool.co.uk/products/s...q-plus-gb-240v


£459?

****!

Spose you could ebay it once done...

Bit cheaper he

https://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/...-Linear-Sander




--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/

On Thursday, 8 November 2018 18:26:30 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
GB wrote:

I'm a huge fan of 1strike.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Everbuild-O.../dp/B001326TJA

It says 'no sanding'. I'm not convinced about that, but you do just bung
it in the hole, and it stays put without sagging.

I like it too, rake out the hole, fill it once relatively roughly as
deep as it takes in one go, give it an hour or two, tamp it down firmly
by thumb, give it another hour or two, then re-fill it level with a
filling knife, 24 hours to properly dry, minimal sanding and never had
the cracks open up again.

If the hole is very wide, rolled up damp newspaper can be used behind the filler.

Jonathan

On Friday, 9 November 2018 11:24:03 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/11/2018 11:06, Marland wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/11/2018 20:56, Rob Morley wrote:
On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 17:44:25 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler between
oak beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the
ends off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.

I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted
20 mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got
buggered. I took it back and got a refund.


The job is as you can see here..

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...4064881918.jpg
http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...n/DSC_0003.JPG

Any advice welcomed.

Don't sand and don't mask. Hack off any unevenness before filling,
fill deep and scrape the filler back flush with the existing good
surface, then fill it smooth with a second coat once the first coat
is firm enough. Ordinary Polyfilla or one-coat plaster works fine
for me - if the edges open up after a while use decorator's caulk,
which will allow a bit of movement.
And cut the edge in properly with a bit of brush skill, ferchrissakes..


If I dont mask the beams get full of filler.

And it takes three times as long to get THAT off.


I have serious eye issues. And joint issues. 'brush skill' is
nonexistent. As is plastering skill. I can sand though.

It takes long enough to actually apply the masking, but at least I can
do it time and again till its right without it being irrevocable

In you airplane hobby have you ever come across Humbrol Maskol which is a
liquid applied mask that dries to a thin rubbery finish and later is
peeled off.
Using it in quantity would be prohibitively expensive but perhaps someone
on here knows of something similar
available that is more economical, Copydex perhaps. More expensive than
tape but if it saves muscle pain.


Applying tape is in fact the quickest part of what I am doing. Then the
caulking is second, painting is minutes per bay. Filling and sanding
are hours per bay.

That's what I want to throw money at to get the time down

So far it seems that there are lots of suggestions but not many to
actually achieve what I want.

If you're doing any sanding at all after filling you're doing the filling wrong. It's totally practical to fill perfectly with zero sanding, I do it plenty. As I said most people fail to follow the basic rule. It doesn't matter if the thing isn't 100% filled yet, but it does have to have absolutely zero protrusion. Not a speck. It normally takes 3 layers to get perfect, but as the technique is new to you it'll take more than 3. Accept that, it's still far less work than filling and practice will make perfect. Once you've got the hang of it it should become practical to imitate the surface finish around the filled patch to make it invisible.

Bonding plaster sure is cheaper than filler or caulk cartridges.


NT

On 09/11/2018 11:35, Robin wrote:
On 08/11/2018 17:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler betweenÂ* oak
beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the
ends off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.

I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted
20 mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got
buggered. I took it back and got a refund.




I may have missed it in this thread but Bill Wright suggested recently

"Wrap a bit of sandpaper round a multitool blade and secure with a dab
of superglue. Makes a detail sanding finger that will reach into places
other sanding solutions can't reach!"

I've not had cause to try it yet so please look North if it brings the
ceiling down

Actually that gives me an idea for a poor man's festool style linear
action sander....

Take one reciprocating saw, and a medium length old blade, plus a block
of wood say 6" x 3" x 1/2".

Use the saw to cut a kerf into the middle of the wide surface of the
block, and then epoxy the *back* of the blade into that kerf to that it
is held at a slight angle to the blade. Pop the blade in the saw, and
you now have a linear{1] reciprocating sanding block. A bit like:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...dingLashup.png


[1] Because of the slight angle there will be a component of verticle
movement as well - so you will get a bit of vibration...



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 09/11/2018 11:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The only other option I can think of for sanding right to an edge that
can also achieve a good finish, is a linear action sander. These aree
far less common than orbital or RoS machines. Festool do one:

https://www.festool.co.uk/products/s...q-plus-gb-240v


For hand sanding near an edge I find the wet/dry paper bonded to a
fairly firm sponge works well. Being wet/dry if it clogs with plaster
dust it can be rinsed out for reuse.

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p84314

https://www.screwfix.com/p/flexovit-...ack-of-6/70902

one wide side plus one narrow side is one grade of paper while the other
two side are a different grade of paper.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 09/11/2018 12:34, John Rumm wrote:
snip

Actually that gives me an idea for a poor man's festool style linear
action sander....

Take one reciprocating saw, and a medium length old blade, plus a block
of wood say 6" x 3" x 1/2".

Use the saw to cut a kerf into the middle of the wide surface of the
block, and then epoxy the *back* of the blade into that kerf to that it
is held at a slight angle to the blade. Pop the blade in the saw, and
you now have a linear{1] reciprocating sanding block. A bit like:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...dingLashup.png


[1] Because of the slight angle there will be a component of verticle
movement as well - so you will get a bit of vibration...




Nice. But I think I'd also want to put something over the saw's
_cutting_ edge - eg a plastic slide binder.

--
Robin (Wimpish and proud!)

reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Friday, 9 November 2018 12:34:41 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 09/11/2018 11:35, Robin wrote:
On 08/11/2018 17:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler betweenÂ* oak
beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the
ends off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.

I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted
20 mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got
buggered. I took it back and got a refund.




I may have missed it in this thread but Bill Wright suggested recently

"Wrap a bit of sandpaper round a multitool blade and secure with a dab
of superglue. Makes a detail sanding finger that will reach into places
other sanding solutions can't reach!"

I've not had cause to try it yet so please look North if it brings the
ceiling down

Actually that gives me an idea for a poor man's festool style linear
action sander....

Take one reciprocating saw, and a medium length old blade, plus a block
of wood say 6" x 3" x 1/2".

Use the saw to cut a kerf into the middle of the wide surface of the
block, and then epoxy the *back* of the blade into that kerf to that it
is held at a slight angle to the blade. Pop the blade in the saw, and
you now have a linear{1] reciprocating sanding block. A bit like:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...dingLashup.png


[1] Because of the slight angle there will be a component of verticle
movement as well - so you will get a bit of vibration...

you won't get a bit of vibration from that picture you'll get failure to contact 90% of the time. That can be greatly improved by the block being at 90 degrees to the blade so the blade bends sideways every stroke. Even better, mount it properly so no bending is required.


NT

In message , Marland
writes
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/11/2018 20:56, Rob Morley wrote:
On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 17:44:25 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler between
oak beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the
ends off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.

I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted
20 mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got
buggered. I took it back and got a refund.


The job is as you can see here..


http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...p?picture=Kitc
hen/scv_15410864578302304584964064881918.jpg

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...p?picture=Kitc
hen/DSC_0003.JPG

Any advice welcomed.

Don't sand and don't mask. Hack off any unevenness before filling,
fill deep and scrape the filler back flush with the existing good
surface, then fill it smooth with a second coat once the first coat
is firm enough. Ordinary Polyfilla or one-coat plaster works fine
for me - if the edges open up after a while use decorator's caulk,
which will allow a bit of movement.
And cut the edge in properly with a bit of brush skill, ferchrissakes.


If I dont mask the beams get full of filler.

And it takes three times as long to get THAT off.


I have serious eye issues. And joint issues. 'brush skill' is
nonexistent. As is plastering skill. I can sand though.

It takes long enough to actually apply the masking, but at least I can
do it time and again till its right without it being irrevocable

In you airplane hobby have you ever come across Humbrol Maskol which is a
liquid applied mask that dries to a thin rubbery finish and later is
peeled off.
Using it in quantity would be prohibitively expensive but perhaps someone
on here knows of something similar
available that is more economical, Copydex perhaps. More expensive than
tape but if it saves muscle pain.
We have *decorative* beams. When it came to decorating the rest of the
ceiling we used pre-cut newspaper and masking tape to protect the beams.

Much easier attaching the tape to the paper at ground level and the
paper stops the tape curling into an annoying mares nest.

--
Tim Lamb

John Rumm wrote:

a poor man's festool style linear action sander....

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...dingLashup.png

Two thoughts ...

1) Recip saws are more of a grunt tool, than a finesse tool

2) They're not especially light

On 08/11/2018 17:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler betweenÂ* oak
beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the ends
off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.

I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted 20
mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got
buggered. I took it back and got a refund.


The job is as you can see here..

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...4064881918.jpg

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...n/DSC_0003.JPG


Any adviceÂ* welcomed.



What is the British obsession with brown wood on the inside of the
house ?.

Just overboard with fireproof plaster and have it skimmed. Use the
void between the beams to hide downlighters and wiring.

If you must keep them on show, just dont bother with masking.
fill the cracks with Wickes white and fine surface filler and
then have the beams sandblasted back to bare wood, which will
remove any plaster overspill.

On 09/11/2018 12:26, wrote:
On Friday, 9 November 2018 11:24:03 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/11/2018 11:06, Marland wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/11/2018 20:56, Rob Morley wrote:
On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 17:44:25 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler between
oak beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the
ends off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.

I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted
20 mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got
buggered. I took it back and got a refund.


The job is as you can see here..

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...4064881918.jpg
http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...n/DSC_0003.JPG

Any advice welcomed.

Don't sand and don't mask. Hack off any unevenness before filling,
fill deep and scrape the filler back flush with the existing good
surface, then fill it smooth with a second coat once the first coat
is firm enough. Ordinary Polyfilla or one-coat plaster works fine
for me - if the edges open up after a while use decorator's caulk,
which will allow a bit of movement.
And cut the edge in properly with a bit of brush skill, ferchrissakes.


If I dont mask the beams get full of filler.

And it takes three times as long to get THAT off.


I have serious eye issues. And joint issues. 'brush skill' is
nonexistent. As is plastering skill. I can sand though.

It takes long enough to actually apply the masking, but at least I can
do it time and again till its right without it being irrevocable

In you airplane hobby have you ever come across Humbrol Maskol which is a
liquid applied mask that dries to a thin rubbery finish and later is
peeled off.
Using it in quantity would be prohibitively expensive but perhaps someone
on here knows of something similar
available that is more economical, Copydex perhaps. More expensive than
tape but if it saves muscle pain.


Applying tape is in fact the quickest part of what I am doing. Then the
caulking is second, painting is minutes per bay. Filling and sanding
are hours per bay.

That's what I want to throw money at to get the time down

So far it seems that there are lots of suggestions but not many to
actually achieve what I want.

If you're doing any sanding at all after filling you're doing the filling wrong. It's totally practical to fill perfectly with zero sanding, I do it plenty. As I said most people fail to follow the basic rule. It doesn't matter if the thing isn't 100% filled yet, but it does have to have absolutely zero protrusion. Not a speck. It normally takes 3 layers to get perfect, but as the technique is new to you it'll take more than 3. Accept that, it's still far less work than filling and practice will make perfect. Once you've got the hang of it it should become practical to imitate the surface finish around the filled patch to make it invisible.

Bonding plaster sure is cheaper than filler or caulk cartridges.


NT


And filling long cracks like that without getting any on the beam is
easy if you use a plasters trowel instead of one of those silly
'filling' knifes.

Just use the filling knife to build a line of filler along the
long edge of a plasters trowel and then wipe it into the gap, away
from the beam.

On 09/11/2018 11:41, John Rumm wrote:
Probably why many beamed ceilings use roughcast plaster between the
beams - that way all the imperfections are just "rustic"!

+1

And if 'she' has gone then the heating will no longer be set to
28 C so those gaps will close up on their own :-)

On Friday, 9 November 2018 15:51:13 UTC, Andrew wrote:
On 08/11/2018 17:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler betweenÂ* oak
beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the ends
off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.

I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted 20
mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got
buggered. I took it back and got a refund.


The job is as you can see here..

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...4064881918.jpg

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...n/DSC_0003.JPG


Any adviceÂ* welcomed.



What is the British obsession with brown wood on the inside of the
house ?.

Just overboard with fireproof plaster and have it skimmed. Use the
void between the beams to hide downlighters and wiring.

If you must keep them on show, just dont bother with masking.
fill the cracks with Wickes white and fine surface filler and
then have the beams sandblasted back to bare wood, which will
remove any plaster overspill.

cough

On 09/11/2018 12:55, wrote:
On Friday, 9 November 2018 12:34:41 UTC, John Rumm wrote:

I may have missed it in this thread but Bill Wright suggested
recently

"Wrap a bit of sandpaper round a multitool blade and secure with
a dab of superglue. Makes a detail sanding finger that will reach
into places other sanding solutions can't reach!"

I've not had cause to try it yet so please look North if it
brings the ceiling down

Actually that gives me an idea for a poor man's festool style
linear action sander....

Take one reciprocating saw, and a medium length old blade, plus a
block of wood say 6" x 3" x 1/2".

Use the saw to cut a kerf into the middle of the wide surface of
the block, and then epoxy the *back* of the blade into that kerf to
that it is held at a slight angle to the blade. Pop the blade in
the saw, and you now have a linear{1] reciprocating sanding block.
A bit like:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...dingLashup.png


[1] Because of the slight angle there will be a component of
verticle movement as well - so you will get a bit of vibration...

you won't get a bit of vibration from that picture you'll get failure
to contact 90% of the time. That can be greatly improved by the block
being at 90 degrees to the blade so the blade bends sideways every
stroke. Even better, mount it properly so no bending is required.

Having not tried, I don't know if it will be an issue. You could also
round the face of the sanding block slightly to ensure that there is
always a (moving) point of contact.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 09/11/2018 14:06, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

a poor man's festool style linear action sander....

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...dingLashup.png

Two thoughts ...

1) Recip saws are more of a grunt tool, than a finesse tool

For sawing certainly...

in this case all you require is a linea oscilating action. How rough it
is will depend on the paper you use etc, and how hard you push.

Having said that, I did say this would be a "poor man's" solution. If
you want refined then buy the festool or do it all by hand!

2) They're not especially light

The smaller 10.8V cordless recip saws are not bad. My one like this:

https://www.lawson-his.co.uk/makita-...s-blade-change

is a tad under 1kg.






--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Andrew wrote:

On 08/11/2018 17:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler between oak
beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the ends
off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.

I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted 20
mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got
buggered. I took it back and got a refund.


The job is as you can see here..

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...icture=Kitchen
/scv_15410864578302304584964064881918.jpg

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...icture=Kitchen
/DSC_0003.JPG


Any advice welcomed.



What is the British obsession with brown wood on the inside of the
house ?.

Just overboard with fireproof plaster and have it skimmed. Use the
void between the beams to hide downlighters and wiring.

If you must keep them on show, just dont bother with masking.
fill the cracks with Wickes white and fine surface filler and
then have the beams sandblasted back to bare wood, which will
remove any plaster overspill.

When the bottom of your ceiling joists is around 1900mm (and I've seen
lower than ours) you need the space between a few inches higher.

Mind you, ours are painted off-white, to get a bit of light in.

--

Roger Hayter

On 09/11/2018 18:11, Roger Hayter wrote:
Andrew wrote:

On 08/11/2018 17:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler between oak
beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the ends
off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.

I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted 20
mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got
buggered. I took it back and got a refund.


The job is as you can see here..

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...icture=Kitchen
/scv_15410864578302304584964064881918.jpg

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...icture=Kitchen
/DSC_0003.JPG


Any advice welcomed.



What is the British obsession with brown wood on the inside of the
house ?.

Just overboard with fireproof plaster and have it skimmed. Use the
void between the beams to hide downlighters and wiring.

If you must keep them on show, just dont bother with masking.
fill the cracks with Wickes white and fine surface filler and
then have the beams sandblasted back to bare wood, which will
remove any plaster overspill.

When the bottom of your ceiling joists is around 1900mm (and I've seen
lower than ours) you need the space between a few inches higher.

What for ?.

If you're going to bang your head on any of the beams then you
bought the wrong house.


Mind you, ours are painted off-white, to get a bit of light in.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 09/11/2018 11:35, Robin wrote:
On 08/11/2018 17:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler between oak
beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the ends
off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.

I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted 20
mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got
buggered. I took it back and got a refund.




I may have missed it in this thread but Bill Wright suggested recently

"Wrap a bit of sandpaper round a multitool blade and secure with a dab of
superglue. Makes a detail sanding finger that will reach into places
other sanding solutions can't reach!"

I've not had cause to try it yet so please look North if it brings the
ceiling down

Actually that gives me an idea for a poor man's festool style linear
action sander....

Take one reciprocating saw, and a medium length old blade, plus a block of
wood say 6" x 3" x 1/2".

Use the saw to cut a kerf into the middle of the wide surface of the
block, and then epoxy the *back* of the blade into that kerf to that it is
held at a slight angle to the blade. Pop the blade in the saw, and you now
have a linear{1] reciprocating sanding block. A bit like:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...dingLashup.png

Trouble is that is going to be pretty heavy to use above your head.
Makes more sense to avoid the need for any sanding at all.

[1] Because of the slight angle there will be a component of verticle
movement as well - so you will get a bit of vibration...

Andrew Wrote in message:
On 09/11/2018 11:41, John Rumm wrote:
Probably why many beamed ceilings use roughcast plaster between the
beams - that way all the imperfections are just "rustic"!

+1

And if 'she' has gone then the heating will no longer be set to
28 C so those gaps will close up on their own :-)


:-)
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Andrew Wrote in message:
On 08/11/2018 17:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler between oak
beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the ends
off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.

I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted 20
mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got
buggered. I took it back and got a refund.


The job is as you can see here..

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...4064881918.jpg

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...n/DSC_0003.JPG


Any advice welcomed.



What is the British obsession with brown wood on the inside of the
house ?.

Just overboard with fireproof plaster and have it skimmed. Use the
void between the beams to hide downlighters and wiring.

Is the 80s making a comeback? Yay!
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/