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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#41
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best tool for this job?
On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 09:56:03 +0000
alan_m wrote: What I've found useful to get a flat surface for filling over distances of 12 inches is a taping knife which has a long blade and can be run over the existing wall and the plaster to ensure one is flush with the other https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Han...g+Knife/p25000 I just use a plastering trowel, I think the taping knife would be too flexible to scrape hard enough (the way I do it anyway). |
#42
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best tool for this job?
On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 15:55:53 +0000
Andrew wrote: And filling long cracks like that without getting any on the beam is easy if you use a plasters trowel instead of one of those silly 'filling' knifes. Just use the filling knife to build a line of filler along the long edge of a plasters trowel and then wipe it into the gap, away from the beam. No need for a knife, you just move the plaster around on its board or hawk until you can pick up an even line along the edge of the trowel. |
#43
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best tool for this job?
Andrew wrote:
On 09/11/2018 18:11, Roger Hayter wrote: Andrew wrote: On 08/11/2018 17:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote: I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler between oak beams that have shrink Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the ends off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall. I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted 20 mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got buggered. I took it back and got a refund. The job is as you can see here.. http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...icture=Kitchen /scv_15410864578302304584964064881918.jpg http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...icture=Kitchen /DSC_0003.JPG Any advice welcomed. What is the British obsession with brown wood on the inside of the house ?. Just overboard with fireproof plaster and have it skimmed. Use the void between the beams to hide downlighters and wiring. If you must keep them on show, just dont bother with masking. fill the cracks with Wickes white and fine surface filler and then have the beams sandblasted back to bare wood, which will remove any plaster overspill. When the bottom of your ceiling joists is around 1900mm (and I've seen lower than ours) you need the space between a few inches higher. What for ?. To reduce claustrophobia and make it slightly less dimly lighted. As you say, it would be enormously convenient to use the void to run pipes and wires. (Though I'm not sure I'd dare make holes in the joists.) The fact that none of the joists is the same depth as another, or straight or constant in depth would make the task complex, but in any case we are sure it wouldn't suit us. If you're going to bang your head on any of the beams then you bought the wrong house. Mind you, ours are painted off-white, to get a bit of light in. -- Roger Hayter |
#44
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best tool for this job?
On Friday, 9 November 2018 17:09:22 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 09/11/2018 12:55, tabbypurr wrote: On Friday, 9 November 2018 12:34:41 UTC, John Rumm wrote: Take one reciprocating saw, and a medium length old blade, plus a block of wood say 6" x 3" x 1/2". Use the saw to cut a kerf into the middle of the wide surface of the block, and then epoxy the *back* of the blade into that kerf to that it is held at a slight angle to the blade. Pop the blade in the saw, and you now have a linear{1] reciprocating sanding block. A bit like: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...dingLashup.png [1] Because of the slight angle there will be a component of verticle movement as well - so you will get a bit of vibration... you won't get a bit of vibration from that picture you'll get failure to contact 90% of the time. That can be greatly improved by the block being at 90 degrees to the blade so the blade bends sideways every stroke. Even better, mount it properly so no bending is required. Having not tried, I don't know if it will be an issue. You could also round the face of the sanding block slightly to ensure that there is always a (moving) point of contact. that certainly won't work. Look at the direction of the blade movement. NT |
#45
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best tool for this job?
"Andrew" wrote in message news On 08/11/2018 17:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote: I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler between oak beams that have shrink Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the ends off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall. I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted 20 mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got buggered. I took it back and got a refund. The job is as you can see here.. http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...4064881918.jpg http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...n/DSC_0003.JPG Any advice welcomed. What is the British obsession with brown wood on the inside of the house ?. Basically, tradition. Just overboard with fireproof plaster and have it skimmed. Use the void between the beams to hide downlighters and wiring. If you must keep them on show, just dont bother with masking. fill the cracks with Wickes white and fine surface filler and then have the beams sandblasted back to bare wood, which will remove any plaster overspill. Makes the wood look much worse. |
#46
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best tool for this job?
On 09/11/2018 15:59, Andrew wrote:
On 09/11/2018 11:41, John Rumm wrote: Probably why many beamed ceilings use roughcast plaster between the beams - that way all the imperfections are just "rustic"! +1 And if 'she' has gone then the heating will no longer be set to 28 C so those gaps will close up on their own :-) Oh 'she' disabled all the heating and lived off the aga in the kichen, and the wood burner in the bedroom. Amd most of the lights were disabled - candle smoke on the ceiling. Full scale nervous breakdown once she had no one to bully. Or someone elses money to spend. She thought people, were out to get her. Mainly she wasnt wrong. She was like someone I used to work for. His co-MD reckoned 'Dick doesn't understand people see, he doesnt know whether they likes him or not, and that maked him nervous, so he behaves like a ****, and they dont like him, and then he knows where he stands you see' -- Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas? Josef Stalin |
#47
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best tool for this job?
On 09/11/2018 11:49, Jonathan wrote:
On Thursday, 8 November 2018 18:26:30 UTC, Andy Burns wrote: GB wrote: I'm a huge fan of 1strike. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Everbuild-O.../dp/B001326TJA It says 'no sanding'. I'm not convinced about that, but you do just bung it in the hole, and it stays put without sagging. I like it too, rake out the hole, fill it once relatively roughly as deep as it takes in one go, give it an hour or two, tamp it down firmly by thumb, give it another hour or two, then re-fill it level with a filling knife, 24 hours to properly dry, minimal sanding and never had the cracks open up again. If the hole is very wide, rolled up damp newspaper can be used behind the filler. Jonathan I have now managed using thicker filler to do this in one. BUT the 'minimal sanding' is still a lot and very arduous. -- Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas? Josef Stalin |
#48
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best tool for this job?
On 09/11/2018 12:37, alan_m wrote:
On 09/11/2018 11:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote: The only other option I can think of for sanding right to an edge that can also achieve a good finish, is a linear action sander. These aree far less common than orbital or RoS machines. Festool do one: https://www.festool.co.uk/products/s...q-plus-gb-240v For hand sanding near an edge I find the wet/dry paper bonded to a fairly firm sponge works well. Being wet/dry if it clogs with plaster dust it can be rinsed out for reuse. https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p84314 https://www.screwfix.com/p/flexovit-...ack-of-6/70902 one wide side plus one narrow side is one grade of paper while the other two side are a different grade of paper. My old permeagrit is essentially that. I am going to use my newer one because the old one is 'plumb wore out' - which shows how much its been used as both wood ceramic and metal file.. I think having recieved all the good advice, that that is as good as it will get for the 'irreducible residue' of sanding... -- Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people. But Marxism is the crack cocaine. |
#49
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best tool for this job?
On 09/11/2018 15:51, Andrew wrote:
On 08/11/2018 17:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote: I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler betweenÂ* oak beams that have shrink Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the ends off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall. I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted 20 mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got buggered. I took it back and got a refund. The job is as you can see here.. http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...4064881918.jpg http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...n/DSC_0003.JPG Any adviceÂ* welcomed. What is the British obsession with brown wood on the inside of the house ?. A matter of personal taste Just overboard with fireproof plaster and have it skimmed. Use the void between the beams to hide downlighters and wiring. If I had wanted it to look that way I wouldnt have used oak in the first place. If you must keep them on show, just dont bother with masking. fill the cracks with Wickes white and fine surface filler and then have the beams sandblasted back to bare wood, which will remove any plaster overspill. It was the sandblasting that put the plaster in such a bad state last time -- Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people. But Marxism is the crack cocaine. |
#50
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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best tool for this job?
On 09/11/2018 18:27, Andrew wrote:
On 09/11/2018 18:11, Roger Hayter wrote: Andrew wrote: On 08/11/2018 17:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote: I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler betweenÂ* oak beams that have shrink Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the ends off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall. I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted 20 mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got buggered. I took it back and got a refund. The job is as you can see here.. http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...icture=Kitchen /scv_15410864578302304584964064881918.jpg http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...icture=Kitchen /DSC_0003.JPG Any adviceÂ* welcomed. What is the British obsession with brown wood on the inside of the house ?. Just overboard with fireproof plaster and have it skimmed. Use the void between the beams to hide downlighters and wiring. If you must keep them on show, just dont bother with masking. fill the cracks with Wickes white and fine surface filler and then have the beams sandblasted back to bare wood, which will remove any plaster overspill. When the bottom of your ceiling joists is around 1900mm (and I've seen lower than ours) you need the space between a few inches higher. What for ?. If you're going to bang your head on any of the beams then you bought the wrong house. Built. No, there was a planning issue with the overall height. I am down on the minimum. And the main cross beams being 12" deep are a shade below and almoost head bang territory for tall friends .. Mind you, ours are painted off-white, to get a bit of light in. -- Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas? Josef Stalin |
#52
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best tool for this job?
On 10/11/2018 07:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/11/2018 18:27, Andrew wrote: On 09/11/2018 18:11, Roger Hayter wrote: When the bottom of your ceiling joists is around 1900mm (and I've seen lower than ours) you need the space between a few inches higher. What for ?. If you're going to bang your head on any of the beams then you bought the wrong house. Built. No, there was a planning issue with the overall height. I am down on the minimum. Do I recall correctly you rebuilt it on the same site as a previous house? Presumably that might make them want to limit it to not taller than the original, which if its old enough would likely be quite short. When you then add modern joist depth requirements, you potentially have more of a headroom problem. And the main cross beams being 12" deep are a shade below and almoost head bang territory for tall friends Yup, I have that problem at my Aunt's place over near Clair - mostly ok downstairs, but I have to take great care walking about upstairs, there is something waiting to clomp you at every turn! -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#53
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best tool for this job?
On Saturday, 10 November 2018 13:06:42 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/11/2018 01:25, tabbypurr wrote: On Friday, 9 November 2018 17:09:22 UTC, John Rumm wrote: On 09/11/2018 12:55, tabbypurr wrote: On Friday, 9 November 2018 12:34:41 UTC, John Rumm wrote: Take one reciprocating saw, and a medium length old blade, plus a block of wood say 6" x 3" x 1/2". Use the saw to cut a kerf into the middle of the wide surface of the block, and then epoxy the *back* of the blade into that kerf to that it is held at a slight angle to the blade. Pop the blade in the saw, and you now have a linear{1] reciprocating sanding block. A bit like: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...dingLashup.png [1] Because of the slight angle there will be a component of verticle movement as well - so you will get a bit of vibration... you won't get a bit of vibration from that picture you'll get failure to contact 90% of the time. That can be greatly improved by the block being at 90 degrees to the blade so the blade bends sideways every stroke. Even better, mount it properly so no bending is required. Having not tried, I don't know if it will be an issue. You could also round the face of the sanding block slightly to ensure that there is always a (moving) point of contact. that certainly won't work. Look at the direction of the blade movement. That certainly *would* work... think about it. Since it's so obvious it would not and could not I can only presume we have a miscommunication going on. NT |
#54
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best tool for this job?
On 10/11/2018 14:05, wrote:
On Saturday, 10 November 2018 13:06:42 UTC, John Rumm wrote: On 10/11/2018 01:25, tabbypurr wrote: On Friday, 9 November 2018 17:09:22 UTC, John Rumm wrote: Having not tried, I don't know if it will be an issue. You could also round the face of the sanding block slightly to ensure that there is always a (moving) point of contact. that certainly won't work. Look at the direction of the blade movement. That certainly *would* work... think about it. Since it's so obvious it would not and could not I can only presume we have a miscommunication going on. Quite likely... Perhaps a drawing will help (excuse the crudity of the model): http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/b/b...SandingPad.png So I am going to assume that the back end of the saw stays roughly in place, since that is where its being held and the trigger pulled etc. The longitudinal movement of the saw and hence pad is on a slightly inclined plane[1], so there will be a small vertical component of the pads movement. As the stroke shortens, the natural movement would thus tend to pull the pad out of contact with the ceiling. However upward pressure exerted by the operator will keep it in contact. This will mean that there is some rotation around the pivot point of the tool, and thus by extension some rotation of the pad as well. A completely flat pad could therefore only ever be in full contact at exactly one angle - tending to ride on the trailing or leading edges at any other angle. Adding the slight radius means that there will always be part of the pad that is co-planar with the ceiling. [1] You could eliminate this with a pad thick enough to allow the body of the saw to be held horizontaly, but still clear of the ceiling - however this would add mass to the pad, and more vibration felt on the tool. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#55
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best tool for this job?
On 10/11/2018 07:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
It was the sandblasting that put the plaster in such a bad state last time Another sanding option that occurred to me, a sanding drum in an angle drill, to create something akin to a powered abrasive roller. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#56
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best tool for this job?
On 10/11/2018 16:22, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/11/2018 07:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote: It was the sandblasting that put the plaster in such a bad state last time Another sanding option that occurred to me, a sanding drum in an angle drill, to create something akin to a powered abrasive roller. It may be because I'd assumed TNP was using a lightweight filler but I'm hearing a distant cockney voice saying something about only blowing the doors off -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
#57
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best tool for this job?
On Saturday, 10 November 2018 16:19:51 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/11/2018 14:05, tabbypurr wrote: On Saturday, 10 November 2018 13:06:42 UTC, John Rumm wrote: On 10/11/2018 01:25, tabbypurr wrote: On Friday, 9 November 2018 17:09:22 UTC, John Rumm wrote: Having not tried, I don't know if it will be an issue. You could also round the face of the sanding block slightly to ensure that there is always a (moving) point of contact. that certainly won't work. Look at the direction of the blade movement. That certainly *would* work... think about it. Since it's so obvious it would not and could not I can only presume we have a miscommunication going on. Quite likely... Perhaps a drawing will help (excuse the crudity of the model): http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/b/b...SandingPad.png So I am going to assume that the back end of the saw stays roughly in place, since that is where its being held and the trigger pulled etc. The longitudinal movement of the saw and hence pad is on a slightly inclined plane[1], so there will be a small vertical component of the pads movement. As the stroke shortens, the natural movement would thus tend to pull the pad out of contact with the ceiling. However upward pressure exerted by the operator will keep it in contact. This will mean that there is some rotation around the pivot point of the tool, and thus by extension some rotation of the pad as well. A completely flat pad could therefore only ever be in full contact at exactly one angle - tending to ride on the trailing or leading edges at any other angle. Adding the slight radius means that there will always be part of the pad that is co-planar with the ceiling. [1] You could eliminate this with a pad thick enough to allow the body of the saw to be held horizontaly, but still clear of the ceiling - however this would add mass to the pad, and more vibration felt on the tool. So you plan to have your hand bobbing the tool up & down at the necessary rate to keep the pad touching the ceiling. Good luck with that! I certainly won't be trying it. NT |
#58
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best tool for this job?
On 10/11/2018 16:22, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/11/2018 07:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote: It was the sandblasting that put the plaster in such a bad state last time Another sanding option that occurred to me, a sanding drum in an angle drill, to create something akin to a powered abrasive roller. yep. File sanders or finger sanders. But the cheap ones are crap. -- "I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun". |
#59
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best tool for this job?
On 10/11/2018 16:27, Robin wrote:
On 10/11/2018 16:22, John Rumm wrote: On 10/11/2018 07:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote: It was the sandblasting that put the plaster in such a bad state last time Another sanding option that occurred to me, a sanding drum in an angle drill, to create something akin to a powered abrasive roller. It may be because I'd assumed TNP was using a lightweight filler but I'm hearing a distant cockney voice saying something about only blowing the doors off polyfilla is currently in use. -- "I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun". |
#60
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best tool for this job?
On 10/11/2018 16:55, wrote:
On Saturday, 10 November 2018 16:19:51 UTC, John Rumm wrote: On 10/11/2018 14:05, tabbypurr wrote: On Saturday, 10 November 2018 13:06:42 UTC, John Rumm wrote: On 10/11/2018 01:25, tabbypurr wrote: On Friday, 9 November 2018 17:09:22 UTC, John Rumm wrote: Having not tried, I don't know if it will be an issue. You could also round the face of the sanding block slightly to ensure that there is always a (moving) point of contact. that certainly won't work. Look at the direction of the blade movement. That certainly *would* work... think about it. Since it's so obvious it would not and could not I can only presume we have a miscommunication going on. Quite likely... Perhaps a drawing will help (excuse the crudity of the model): http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/b/b...SandingPad.png So I am going to assume that the back end of the saw stays roughly in place, since that is where its being held and the trigger pulled etc. The longitudinal movement of the saw and hence pad is on a slightly inclined plane[1], so there will be a small vertical component of the pads movement. As the stroke shortens, the natural movement would thus tend to pull the pad out of contact with the ceiling. However upward pressure exerted by the operator will keep it in contact. This will mean that there is some rotation around the pivot point of the tool, and thus by extension some rotation of the pad as well. A completely flat pad could therefore only ever be in full contact at exactly one angle - tending to ride on the trailing or leading edges at any other angle. Adding the slight radius means that there will always be part of the pad that is co-planar with the ceiling. [1] You could eliminate this with a pad thick enough to allow the body of the saw to be held horizontaly, but still clear of the ceiling - however this would add mass to the pad, and more vibration felt on the tool. So you plan to have your hand bobbing the tool up & down at the necessary rate to keep the pad touching the ceiling. Good luck with that! I certainly won't be trying it. So you agree it will work then... (Do the sums and you will see the actual amount of movement vertically is pretty small... in use it will be similar to using the saw to plunge cut through a surface) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#61
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best tool for this job?
On 10/11/2018 17:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/11/2018 16:27, Robin wrote: On 10/11/2018 16:22, John Rumm wrote: On 10/11/2018 07:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote: It was the sandblasting that put the plaster in such a bad state last time Another sanding option that occurred to me, a sanding drum in an angle drill, to create something akin to a powered abrasive roller. It may be because I'd assumed TNP was using a lightweight filler but I'm hearing a distant cockney voice saying something about only blowing the doors off polyfilla is currently in use. I find the filler designed for filling taper edge boards is *much* easier to sand nicely (and quickly) than polyfiller. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#62
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best tool for this job?
On 10/11/2018 17:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/11/2018 16:22, John Rumm wrote: On 10/11/2018 07:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote: It was the sandblasting that put the plaster in such a bad state last time Another sanding option that occurred to me, a sanding drum in an angle drill, to create something akin to a powered abrasive roller. yep. File sanders or finger sanders. But the cheap ones are crap. The problem I have with those on applications like this, is that you are sanding just with the nose of the belt, and its very difficult to keep a level cut - you tend to get undulations in the sanded surface because they are too narrow to index off the flat reference surface beside the bit you are sanding... Something like the larger drum he https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p15110 Will give you a wide reference surface contact - although you will still have to keep the drill moving to avoid ripples in the surface. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#63
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best tool for this job?
On Saturday, 10 November 2018 17:44:05 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/11/2018 16:55, tabbypurr wrote: On Saturday, 10 November 2018 16:19:51 UTC, John Rumm wrote: On 10/11/2018 14:05, tabbypurr wrote: On Saturday, 10 November 2018 13:06:42 UTC, John Rumm wrote: On 10/11/2018 01:25, tabbypurr wrote: On Friday, 9 November 2018 17:09:22 UTC, John Rumm wrote: Having not tried, I don't know if it will be an issue. You could also round the face of the sanding block slightly to ensure that there is always a (moving) point of contact. that certainly won't work. Look at the direction of the blade movement. That certainly *would* work... think about it. Since it's so obvious it would not and could not I can only presume we have a miscommunication going on. Quite likely... Perhaps a drawing will help (excuse the crudity of the model): http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/b/b...SandingPad.png So I am going to assume that the back end of the saw stays roughly in place, since that is where its being held and the trigger pulled etc. The longitudinal movement of the saw and hence pad is on a slightly inclined plane[1], so there will be a small vertical component of the pads movement. As the stroke shortens, the natural movement would thus tend to pull the pad out of contact with the ceiling. However upward pressure exerted by the operator will keep it in contact. This will mean that there is some rotation around the pivot point of the tool, and thus by extension some rotation of the pad as well. A completely flat pad could therefore only ever be in full contact at exactly one angle - tending to ride on the trailing or leading edges at any other angle. Adding the slight radius means that there will always be part of the pad that is co-planar with the ceiling. [1] You could eliminate this with a pad thick enough to allow the body of the saw to be held horizontaly, but still clear of the ceiling - however this would add mass to the pad, and more vibration felt on the tool. So you plan to have your hand bobbing the tool up & down at the necessary rate to keep the pad touching the ceiling. Good luck with that! I certainly won't be trying it. So you agree it will work then... obviously I didn't. (Do the sums and you will see the actual amount of movement vertically is pretty small... in use it will be similar to using the saw to plunge cut through a surface) Why don't you get back to us when you've tried it. NT |
#64
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best tool for this job?
On 10/11/2018 19:41, wrote:
On Saturday, 10 November 2018 17:44:05 UTC, John Rumm wrote: On 10/11/2018 16:55, tabbypurr wrote: On Saturday, 10 November 2018 16:19:51 UTC, John Rumm wrote: On 10/11/2018 14:05, tabbypurr wrote: On Saturday, 10 November 2018 13:06:42 UTC, John Rumm wrote: On 10/11/2018 01:25, tabbypurr wrote: On Friday, 9 November 2018 17:09:22 UTC, John Rumm wrote: Having not tried, I don't know if it will be an issue. You could also round the face of the sanding block slightly to ensure that there is always a (moving) point of contact. that certainly won't work. Look at the direction of the blade movement. That certainly *would* work... think about it. Since it's so obvious it would not and could not I can only presume we have a miscommunication going on. Quite likely... Perhaps a drawing will help (excuse the crudity of the model): http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/b/b...SandingPad.png So I am going to assume that the back end of the saw stays roughly in place, since that is where its being held and the trigger pulled etc. The longitudinal movement of the saw and hence pad is on a slightly inclined plane[1], so there will be a small vertical component of the pads movement. As the stroke shortens, the natural movement would thus tend to pull the pad out of contact with the ceiling. However upward pressure exerted by the operator will keep it in contact. This will mean that there is some rotation around the pivot point of the tool, and thus by extension some rotation of the pad as well. A completely flat pad could therefore only ever be in full contact at exactly one angle - tending to ride on the trailing or leading edges at any other angle. Adding the slight radius means that there will always be part of the pad that is co-planar with the ceiling. [1] You could eliminate this with a pad thick enough to allow the body of the saw to be held horizontaly, but still clear of the ceiling - however this would add mass to the pad, and more vibration felt on the tool. So you plan to have your hand bobbing the tool up & down at the necessary rate to keep the pad touching the ceiling. Good luck with that! I certainly won't be trying it. So you agree it will work then... obviously I didn't. Well you should... (Do the sums and you will see the actual amount of movement vertically is pretty small... in use it will be similar to using the saw to plunge cut through a surface) Why don't you get back to us when you've tried it. ok, and here are the results: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Inline_Sanding_Hack -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#65
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best tool for this job?
On 10/11/2018 17:45, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/11/2018 17:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 10/11/2018 16:27, Robin wrote: On 10/11/2018 16:22, John Rumm wrote: On 10/11/2018 07:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote: It was the sandblasting that put the plaster in such a bad state last time Another sanding option that occurred to me, a sanding drum in an angle drill, to create something akin to a powered abrasive roller. It may be because I'd assumed TNP was using a lightweight filler but I'm hearing a distant cockney voice saying something about only blowing the doors off polyfilla is currently in use. I find the filler designed for filling taper edge boards is *much* easier to sand nicely (and quickly) than polyfiller. I'll second that - especially the pre-mixed type. SteveW |
#66
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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best tool for this job?
On 10/11/2018 17:45, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/11/2018 17:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 10/11/2018 16:27, Robin wrote: On 10/11/2018 16:22, John Rumm wrote: On 10/11/2018 07:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote: It was the sandblasting that put the plaster in such a bad state last time Another sanding option that occurred to me, a sanding drum in an angle drill, to create something akin to a powered abrasive roller. It may be because I'd assumed TNP was using a lightweight filler but I'm hearing a distant cockney voice saying something about only blowing the doors off polyfilla is currently in use. I find the filler designed for filling taper edge boards is *much* easier to sand nicely (and quickly) than polyfiller. Yes, with that much ceiling and such wide holes I'd assumed something easier to sand - and also cheaper. My last buy was 5kg Gyproc Easi-Fill 20 for about £13. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
#67
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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best tool for this job?
On Saturday, 10 November 2018 23:10:12 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 10/11/2018 19:41, tabbypurr wrote: On Saturday, 10 November 2018 17:44:05 UTC, John Rumm wrote: On 10/11/2018 16:55, tabbypurr wrote: On Saturday, 10 November 2018 16:19:51 UTC, John Rumm wrote: On 10/11/2018 14:05, tabbypurr wrote: On Saturday, 10 November 2018 13:06:42 UTC, John Rumm wrote: On 10/11/2018 01:25, tabbypurr wrote: On Friday, 9 November 2018 17:09:22 UTC, John Rumm wrote: Having not tried, I don't know if it will be an issue. You could also round the face of the sanding block slightly to ensure that there is always a (moving) point of contact. that certainly won't work. Look at the direction of the blade movement. That certainly *would* work... think about it. Since it's so obvious it would not and could not I can only presume we have a miscommunication going on. Quite likely... Perhaps a drawing will help (excuse the crudity of the model): http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/b/b...SandingPad.png So I am going to assume that the back end of the saw stays roughly in place, since that is where its being held and the trigger pulled etc. The longitudinal movement of the saw and hence pad is on a slightly inclined plane[1], so there will be a small vertical component of the pads movement. As the stroke shortens, the natural movement would thus tend to pull the pad out of contact with the ceiling. However upward pressure exerted by the operator will keep it in contact. This will mean that there is some rotation around the pivot point of the tool, and thus by extension some rotation of the pad as well. A completely flat pad could therefore only ever be in full contact at exactly one angle - tending to ride on the trailing or leading edges at any other angle. Adding the slight radius means that there will always be part of the pad that is co-planar with the ceiling. [1] You could eliminate this with a pad thick enough to allow the body of the saw to be held horizontaly, but still clear of the ceiling - however this would add mass to the pad, and more vibration felt on the tool. So you plan to have your hand bobbing the tool up & down at the necessary rate to keep the pad touching the ceiling. Good luck with that! I certainly won't be trying it. So you agree it will work then... obviously I didn't. Well you should... (Do the sums and you will see the actual amount of movement vertically is pretty small... in use it will be similar to using the saw to plunge cut through a surface) Why don't you get back to us when you've tried it. ok, and here are the results: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Inline_Sanding_Hack So you accept (on the wiki) it's not suitable for the OP to sand his ceilings with, even after you improved the design by using a flat sanding pad. I'm done on this. NT |
#68
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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best tool for this job?
On 11/11/2018 00:34, wrote:
On Saturday, 10 November 2018 23:10:12 UTC, John Rumm wrote: On 10/11/2018 19:41, tabbypurr wrote: On Saturday, 10 November 2018 17:44:05 UTC, John Rumm wrote: On 10/11/2018 16:55, tabbypurr wrote: On Saturday, 10 November 2018 16:19:51 UTC, John Rumm wrote: On 10/11/2018 14:05, tabbypurr wrote: On Saturday, 10 November 2018 13:06:42 UTC, John Rumm wrote: On 10/11/2018 01:25, tabbypurr wrote: On Friday, 9 November 2018 17:09:22 UTC, John Rumm wrote: Having not tried, I don't know if it will be an issue. You could also round the face of the sanding block slightly to ensure that there is always a (moving) point of contact. that certainly won't work. Look at the direction of the blade movement. That certainly *would* work... think about it. Since it's so obvious it would not and could not I can only presume we have a miscommunication going on. Quite likely... Perhaps a drawing will help (excuse the crudity of the model): http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/b/b...SandingPad.png So I am going to assume that the back end of the saw stays roughly in place, since that is where its being held and the trigger pulled etc. The longitudinal movement of the saw and hence pad is on a slightly inclined plane[1], so there will be a small vertical component of the pads movement. As the stroke shortens, the natural movement would thus tend to pull the pad out of contact with the ceiling. However upward pressure exerted by the operator will keep it in contact. This will mean that there is some rotation around the pivot point of the tool, and thus by extension some rotation of the pad as well. A completely flat pad could therefore only ever be in full contact at exactly one angle - tending to ride on the trailing or leading edges at any other angle. Adding the slight radius means that there will always be part of the pad that is co-planar with the ceiling. [1] You could eliminate this with a pad thick enough to allow the body of the saw to be held horizontaly, but still clear of the ceiling - however this would add mass to the pad, and more vibration felt on the tool. So you plan to have your hand bobbing the tool up & down at the necessary rate to keep the pad touching the ceiling. Good luck with that! I certainly won't be trying it. So you agree it will work then... obviously I didn't. Well you should... (Do the sums and you will see the actual amount of movement vertically is pretty small... in use it will be similar to using the saw to plunge cut through a surface) Why don't you get back to us when you've tried it. ok, and here are the results: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Inline_Sanding_Hack So you accept (on the wiki) it's not suitable for the OP to sand his ceilings with, I was not actually suggesting that it was a solution for the OP - just exploring a possibility. I was responding to Robin's reposting of Bill's original comment, about using sandpaper fixed to a multimaster blade. I said: "Actually that gives me an idea for a poor man's festool style linear action sander....". Having now tried that idea and proved that it does work, I would maintain that it does indeed give you a poor man's[1] linear sander. [1] Now for the avoidance of doubt, by "poor man's" I mean a hack that is austere in nature - it will do a similar job but with less finesse, effectiveness, comfort and all that. As a champion of the cheap tool, and hacked solution I would have thought that would be right up your street? even after you improved the design by using a flat sanding pad The flat sanding pad is not an improvement - it would be better with a slight curve so that it could maintain contact with the surface better and not put excessive wear on the paper on the ends of the block like a flat one does. However it was more than adequate to establish if the idea works, how controllable it was, what the material removal rate was like, and how bad the vibration was going to be. I'm done on this. We can live in hope... -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#69
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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best tool for this job?
On 10/11/2018 23:35, Robin wrote:
On 10/11/2018 17:45, John Rumm wrote: On 10/11/2018 17:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 10/11/2018 16:27, Robin wrote: On 10/11/2018 16:22, John Rumm wrote: On 10/11/2018 07:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote: It was the sandblasting that put the plaster in such a bad state last time Another sanding option that occurred to me, a sanding drum in an angle drill, to create something akin to a powered abrasive roller. It may be because I'd assumed TNP was using a lightweight filler but I'm hearing a distant cockney voice saying something about only blowing the doors off polyfilla is currently in use. I find the filler designed for filling taper edge boards is *much* easier to sand nicely (and quickly) than polyfiller. Yes, with that much ceiling and such wide holes I'd assumed something easier to sand - and also cheaper.Â*Â* My last buy was 5kg Gyproc Easi-Fill 20 for about £13. Tried that. Harder to sand than polyfilla, and a similar price -- Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend. "Saki" |
#70
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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best tool for this job?
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message news On 08/11/2018 18:04, GB wrote: Very nice house, by the way. Can we have some more pics of the views, please? They will accumulate as the renovation progresses. My ex left it in a terrible state. So she gained custody of the parrot then, by the looks of things. michael adams .... |
#71
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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best tool for this job?
On 10/11/2018 23:10, John Rumm wrote:
8 http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Inline_Sanding_Hack Scary. You might suggest grinding the teeth off or some fool will have their hand off. For the OP I can't see what's wrong with a normal random orbital sander and putting a metal rule along the beam to stop it doing any damage. Maybe cutting a strip of metal/plastic and wrapping it around the pad. |
#72
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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best tool for this job?
On 11/11/2018 03:08, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/11/2018 00:34, wrote: On Saturday, 10 November 2018 23:10:12 UTC, John RummÂ* wrote: On 10/11/2018 19:41, tabbypurr wrote: On Saturday, 10 November 2018 17:44:05 UTC, John RummÂ* wrote: On 10/11/2018 16:55, tabbypurr wrote: snip So you plan to have your hand bobbing the tool up & down at the necessary rate to keep the pad touching the ceiling. Good luck with that! I certainly won't be trying it. So you agree it will work then... obviously I didn't. Well you should... (Do the sums and you will see the actual amount of movement vertically is pretty small... in use it will be similar to using the saw to plunge cut through a surface) Why don't you get back to us when you've tried it. ok, and here are the results: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Inline_Sanding_Hack So you accept (on the wiki) it's not suitable for the OP to sand his ceilings with, I was not actually suggesting that it was a solution for the OP - just exploring a possibility. I was responding to Robin's reposting of Bill's original comment, about using sandpaper fixed to a multimaster blade. I said:Â* "Actually that gives me an idea for a poor man's festool style linear action sander....". Having now tried that idea and proved that it does work, I would maintain that it does indeed give you a poor man's[1] linear sander. [1] Now for the avoidance of doubt, by "poor man's" I mean a hack that is austere in nature - it will do a similar job but with less finesse, effectiveness, comfort and all that. As a champion of the cheap tool, and hacked solution I would have thought that would be right up your street? even after you improved the design by using a flat sanding pad The flat sanding pad is not an improvement - it would be better with a slight curve so that it could maintain contact with the surface better and not put excessive wear on the paper on the ends of the block like a flat one does. However it was more than adequate to establish if the idea works, how controllable it was, what the material removal rate was like, and how bad the vibration was going to be. I'm done on this. We can live in hope... Kudos for bothering to prove your point. Diddums to tabby. |
#73
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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best tool for this job?
On Thursday, November 8, 2018 at 5:44:28 PM UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler between oak beams that have shrink Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the ends off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall. I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted 20 mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got buggered. I took it back and got a refund. The job is as you can see here.. http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...4064881918.jpg http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...n/DSC_0003.JPG Any advice welcomed. -- New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket. Forgive a stupid question but why not insert fresh plaster board ? |
#74
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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best tool for this job?
On 11/11/2018 07:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/11/2018 23:35, Robin wrote: On 10/11/2018 17:45, John Rumm wrote: On 10/11/2018 17:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 10/11/2018 16:27, Robin wrote: On 10/11/2018 16:22, John Rumm wrote: On 10/11/2018 07:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote: It was the sandblasting that put the plaster in such a bad state last time Another sanding option that occurred to me, a sanding drum in an angle drill, to create something akin to a powered abrasive roller. It may be because I'd assumed TNP was using a lightweight filler but I'm hearing a distant cockney voice saying something about only blowing the doors off polyfilla is currently in use. I find the filler designed for filling taper edge boards is *much* easier to sand nicely (and quickly) than polyfiller. Yes, with that much ceiling and such wide holes I'd assumed something easier to sand - and also cheaper.Â*Â* My last buy was 5kg Gyproc Easi-Fill 20 for about £13. Tried that. Harder to sand than polyfilla, and a similar price The last one I used was IIRC: https://www.wickes.co.uk/Knauf-Joint...-10kg/p/224541 That sanded very easily and quickly. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#75
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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best tool for this job?
On 11/11/2018 09:37, dennis@home wrote:
On 10/11/2018 23:10, John Rumm wrote: 8 http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Inline_Sanding_Hack Scary. You might suggest grinding the teeth off or some fool will have their hand off. As it turns out the tool with actually take the blade either way up, so you could point them in a less aggressive looking direction. (using a hacksaw blade might also be better!) For the OP I can't see what's wrong with a normal random orbital sander and putting a metal rule along the beam to stop it doing any damage. Maybe cutting a strip of metal/plastic and wrapping it around the pad. I would be content with my RoS[1], and just staying slightly shy of the beam... although if you do hit it, its not going to do it any particular damage. If you are left with a unsanded edge, then either a bead of caulk over it, or a quick touch up with a multimaster style tool. [1] Mirka CEROS 5" - I bought it mainly for woodwork, but its the sander of choice for many pro decorators because its small, light, and very easy to use in any orientation, and when combined with their Abranet sanding sheets and a decent extractor does an almost totally effective job collecting the dust: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS17ZoCpHrU -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#76
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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best tool for this job?
On 11/11/2018 12:40, fred wrote:
On Thursday, November 8, 2018 at 5:44:28 PM UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote: I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler between oak beams that have shrink Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the ends off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall. I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted 20 mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got buggered. I took it back and got a refund. The job is as you can see here.. http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...4064881918.jpg http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...n/DSC_0003.JPG Any advice welcomed. -- New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket. Forgive a stupid question but why not insert fresh plaster board ? Because it would take even longer and STILL need skimming -- Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed. |
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