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Old November 9th 18, 12:51 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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On 18:09 8 Nov 2018, The Natural Philosopher wrote
in news
On 08/11/2018 18:04, GB wrote:
Very nice house, by the way. Can we have some more pics of the views,
please?


They will accumulate as the renovation progresses. My ex left it in a
terrible state.


I thought she got Wickhambrook?

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Old November 9th 18, 02:50 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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On 08/11/2018 17:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler betweenÂ* oak
beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the ends
off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.


If I were doing it I would sand the open areas with my posh Mirka RoS
(light and easy to use overhead and very effective dust collection),
then do the edges either with my multimaster (the oscillating action -
is rotary rather than orbital - so it will sand right up to an edge
without hitting against it all the time like an orbital does).

Alternatively I would use my Mirka hand sand block with vacuum extraction:

https://www.axminster.co.uk/mirka-ha...x-230mm-502673
https://www.axminster.co.uk/mirka-sa...ction-ax851921

With an Abranet sanding sheet and a vacuum hook up there is very little
dust which is nice when sanding overhead.

Rather than worry about sanding right up to the edge, I would be
inclined to caulk the final interface between ceiling and beam, so that
you have something flexible at the join. You can tool that with a fugi
type tool. The acrylic caulk will take a few days to dry out fully if
you use a heavy bead - but it shrinks back slightly as it does which
leaves a quite need slightly concave finish.

If you look at:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/9/9...werCeiling.jpg

The interface between tile and ply suspended ceiling is caulked and then
painted along with the ceiling - it makes for a neat (IMHO) finish at
the join.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
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Old November 9th 18, 06:23 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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On 08/11/2018 20:56, Rob Morley wrote:
On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 17:44:25 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler between
oak beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the
ends off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.

I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted
20 mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got
buggered. I took it back and got a refund.


The job is as you can see here..

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...4064881918.jpg
http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...n/DSC_0003.JPG

Any advice welcomed.

Don't sand and don't mask. Hack off any unevenness before filling,
fill deep and scrape the filler back flush with the existing good
surface, then fill it smooth with a second coat once the first coat
is firm enough. Ordinary Polyfilla or one-coat plaster works fine
for me - if the edges open up after a while use decorator's caulk,
which will allow a bit of movement.
And cut the edge in properly with a bit of brush skill, ferchrissakes.


If I dont mask the beams get full of filler.

And it takes three times as long to get THAT off.


I have serious eye issues. And joint issues. 'brush skill' is
nonexistent. As is plastering skill. I can sand though.

It takes long enough to actually apply the masking, but at least I can
do it time and again till its right without it being irrevocable




--
There’s a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
that sound good.

Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)
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Old November 9th 18, 06:35 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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On 09/11/2018 01:50, John Rumm wrote:
Rather than worry about sanding right up to the edge, I would be
inclined to caulk the final interface between ceiling and beam, so that
you have something flexible at the join.


The problem is that that implies you can stop the filler a fixed
distance from the edge. In fact I am using massive amounts of caulk - on
7th tube so far - to do what can be done that way, but this part of the
L shaped house features the 90 degree bend and the green oak was exposed
to rain longer because the roof was tricky to make in that part
because of the bend so the final shrinkage was far greater. Even the
longitudinal shrinkage of the main verticals is enough to cause cracking.

Across the 12" width of the central 12" square oak beams the shrinkage
is about an INCH

16 years on, its finally reached equilibrium and its time to sort it all
out.

I have tried about 6 different techniques so far, and this is the first
one that actually works, but am simply physically incapable of doing the
sanding by hand. At lest more than a half beam in a day, and there's 48
half beams in the ine room alone..


I have got it down a lot by being better at filling, but there is an
irreducible residue of sanding needed.

Are there multitools that don't need velcro pads?

I suspect that plaster dust and velcro are anathema




--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels



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Old November 9th 18, 10:56 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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On 09/11/2018 05:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The problem is that that implies you can stop the filler a fixed
distance from the edge.


Across the 12" width of the central 12" square oak beams the shrinkage
is about an INCH


As other have mentioned try and get the filler as close as possible to
the final finish without having to sand down afterwards. Possibly don't
try to get the finish in one go - fill to below the surface, key this
surface before it sets and then a final thinner filler layer.

What I've found useful to get a flat surface for filling over distances
of 12 inches is a taping knife which has a long blade and can be run
over the existing wall and the plaster to ensure one is flush with the
other

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Han...g+Knife/p25000

Toolsatan also do them in stainless steel and to 12 inches.

Plenty of cheaper/larger versions available on ebay


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk


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Old November 9th 18, 11:52 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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On 09/11/2018 05:35, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/11/2018 01:50, John Rumm wrote:
Rather than worry about sanding right up to the edge, I would be
inclined to caulk the final interface between ceiling and beam, so
that you have something flexible at the join.


The problem is that that implies you can stop the filler a fixed
distance from the edge. In fact I am using massive amounts of caulk - on


I was thinking more of filling up to the edge, but not bothering to try
sanding right to the edge. Then just covering the edge of the filler
with (tooled) caulk.

7th tube so far - to do what can be done that way, but this part of the
L shaped house features the 90 degree bend and the green oak was exposed
Â*to rain longer because the roof was tricky to make in that part
because of the bend so the final shrinkage was far greater. Even the
longitudinal shrinkage of the main verticals is enough to cause cracking.

Across the 12" width of the central 12" square oak beams the shrinkage
is about an INCH

16 years on, its finally reached equilibrium and its time to sort it all
out.

I have tried about 6 different techniques so far, and this is the first
one that actually works, but am simply physically incapable of doing the
sanding by hand. At lest more than a half beam in a day, and there's 48
half beams in the ine room alone..


Any hand sanding would need to be very quick and minimal obviously given
the scale of the job. Those proper sanding pads with handels etc make it
much easier. Also the ones that can be mounted on a pole make it much
easier - i.e. you can stand ont he ground and use full arm moevments etc.

Working overhead even with a lightish tool like a multimaster will still
get tiring.

The only other option I can think of for sanding right to an edge that
can also achieve a good finish, is a linear action sander. These aree
far less common than orbital or RoS machines. Festool do one:

https://www.festool.co.uk/products/s...q-plus-gb-240v

I have got it down a lot by being better at filling, but there is an
irreducible residue of sanding needed.

Are there multitools that don't need velcro pads?


There are some punched backing pads that allow for extraction through
the pad. I have not seen any with clamps to hold the paper.

Generally I have not had difficulty with the velcro type unless you
allow the pad to overheat (too much pressure usually - not that
difficult to do with such a small pad). Then they lose their ability to
retain the paper.

Axminster do some "interface" pads which are basically thin double sided
velcro sheets designed to sit between pad and paper. The idea being if
you knacker the velcro, you don't need to replace the more expensive pad
on the machine - just the interface pad. (they also have some thicker
spongy versions designed for curved surfaces)

I suspect that plaster dust and velcro are anathema


IME dust does not seem to cause it a problem... having said that, not
all velcro backing pads are made equal.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
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Old November 9th 18, 12:06 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/11/2018 20:56, Rob Morley wrote:
On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 17:44:25 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler between
oak beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the
ends off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.

I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted
20 mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got
buggered. I took it back and got a refund.


The job is as you can see here..

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...4064881918.jpg
http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...n/DSC_0003.JPG

Any advice welcomed.

Don't sand and don't mask. Hack off any unevenness before filling,
fill deep and scrape the filler back flush with the existing good
surface, then fill it smooth with a second coat once the first coat
is firm enough. Ordinary Polyfilla or one-coat plaster works fine
for me - if the edges open up after a while use decorator's caulk,
which will allow a bit of movement.
And cut the edge in properly with a bit of brush skill, ferchrissakes.


If I dont mask the beams get full of filler.

And it takes three times as long to get THAT off.


I have serious eye issues. And joint issues. 'brush skill' is
nonexistent. As is plastering skill. I can sand though.

It takes long enough to actually apply the masking, but at least I can
do it time and again till its right without it being irrevocable

In you airplane hobby have you ever come across Humbrol Maskol which is a
liquid applied mask that dries to a thin rubbery finish and later is
peeled off.
Using it in quantity would be prohibitively expensive but perhaps someone
on here knows of something similar
available that is more economical, Copydex perhaps. More expensive than
tape but if it saves muscle pain.

GH

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Old November 9th 18, 12:24 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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On 09/11/2018 11:06, Marland wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/11/2018 20:56, Rob Morley wrote:
On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 17:44:25 +0000
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I am faced with masking filling and sanding plater/filler between
oak beams that have shrink

Its proving a monumental task, esp. the sanding

Mt orbital sander tears the masking tape and its prone to grind the
ends off the sheet of abrasive if it gets too close to a wall.

I bought a 'palm' sander from Wickes for £15 his morning,. It lasted
20 mins before the sanding pad fell off and the Velcro underneath got
buggered. I took it back and got a refund.


The job is as you can see here..

http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...4064881918.jpg
http://www.larksrise.com/Project%20P...n/DSC_0003.JPG

Any advice welcomed.

Don't sand and don't mask. Hack off any unevenness before filling,
fill deep and scrape the filler back flush with the existing good
surface, then fill it smooth with a second coat once the first coat
is firm enough. Ordinary Polyfilla or one-coat plaster works fine
for me - if the edges open up after a while use decorator's caulk,
which will allow a bit of movement.
And cut the edge in properly with a bit of brush skill, ferchrissakes.


If I dont mask the beams get full of filler.

And it takes three times as long to get THAT off.


I have serious eye issues. And joint issues. 'brush skill' is
nonexistent. As is plastering skill. I can sand though.

It takes long enough to actually apply the masking, but at least I can
do it time and again till its right without it being irrevocable

In you airplane hobby have you ever come across Humbrol Maskol which is a
liquid applied mask that dries to a thin rubbery finish and later is
peeled off.
Using it in quantity would be prohibitively expensive but perhaps someone
on here knows of something similar
available that is more economical, Copydex perhaps. More expensive than
tape but if it saves muscle pain.


Applying tape is in fact the quickest part of what I am doing. Then the
caulking is second, painting is minutes per bay. Filling and sanding
are hours per bay.

That's what I want to throw money at to get the time down

So far it seems that there are lots of suggestions but not many to
actually achieve what I want.



GH



--
"And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".

Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14

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Old November 9th 18, 12:27 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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On 09/11/2018 10:52, John Rumm wrote:
Any hand sanding would need to be very quick and minimal obviously given
the scale of the job. Those proper sanding pads with handels etc make it
much easier.


I have that. Actually a permagrit block is damned good

One of the best acquisitions I ever made

https://www.permagrit.com/sanding-blocks/

Also the ones that can be mounted on a pole make it much
easier - i.e. you can stand ont he ground and use full arm moevments etc.


Just as tiring and less control judging by my pole mounted paint roller :-(

Working overhead even with a lightish tool like a multimaster will still
get tiring.

Tell me about it.

The only other option I can think of for sanding right to an edge that
can also achieve a good finish, is a linear action sander. These aree
far less common than orbital or RoS machines. Festool do one:

https://www.festool.co.uk/products/s...q-plus-gb-240v


£459?

****!

--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!


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Old November 9th 18, 12:32 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Filling and sanding are hours per bay.
That's what I want to throw money at to get the time down
So far it seems that there are lots of suggestions but not many to
actually achieve what I want.


I think you should be able to reduce the sanding time, and make it
hand-sanding rather than hoisting a machine over your head.

That probably comes at the expense of slower, more careful filling, and
time between two layers of filler, but as you've plenty of bays to do,
you probably have no need to actually waste time between layers, just
work your way round and then back to the start.


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