Having found a supplier of carbon filters, I need to mount our new (to
us!) cooker hood, which replaces an older non working hood. There is a
13 amp socket in the wall, used by the original hood, but, because the
new hood is a different shape, and has to be mounted higher than the old
one, the power socket will directly behind the hood.

Directly behind the 13 amp socket, which is on a ring main, is a wooden
stud, so Plan A is to replace the socket with a junction box mounted on
the stud, maintaining the ring main, and hard wire the cooker hood to
the same junction box.

Plan B could be to just remount the existing socket on the stud, so that
it is recessed rather than flush, although I am not sure that would give
clearance for the cooker hood plug to be flush, too.

Are either of these options seriously non compliant or unsafe? I don't
want to find an insurance claim, for example, failing because of
allegedly dangerous wiring, or whatever.
--
Graeme

On 09/06/18 09:18, Graeme wrote:

Having found a supplier of carbon filters, I need to mount our new (to
us!) cooker hood, which replaces an older non working hood.Â* There is a
13 amp socket in the wall, used by the original hood, but, because the
new hood is a different shape, and has to be mounted higher than the old
one, the power socket will directly behind the hood.

Directly behind the 13 amp socket, which is on a ring main, is a wooden
stud, so Plan A is to replace the socket with a junction box mounted on
the stud, maintaining the ring main, and hard wire the cooker hood to
the same junction box.

Non starter - you still need a fuse (so you need a fused spur, which
takes up the same space as a socket, minus perhaps the space of the plugtop)


Plan B could be to just remount the existing socket on the stud, so that
it is recessed rather than flush, although I am not sure that would give
clearance for the cooker hood plug to be flush, too.

In this case, you could consider the fused spur option. But you still
need to get to the fuse and have a means of isolation (so a switched
fused spur).

Can you drop a cable from the ceiling down to the hood?

Or can you joint the ring, take a spur up 6" above the new hood and
mount a socket there?


Are either of these options seriously non compliant or unsafe?Â* I don't
want to find an insurance claim, for example, failing because of
allegedly dangerous wiring, or whatever.

On Saturday, 9 June 2018 09:18:32 UTC+1, Graeme wrote:
Having found a supplier of carbon filters, I need to mount our new (to
us!) cooker hood, which replaces an older non working hood. There is a
13 amp socket in the wall, used by the original hood, but, because the
new hood is a different shape, and has to be mounted higher than the old
one, the power socket will directly behind the hood.

Directly behind the 13 amp socket, which is on a ring main, is a wooden
stud, so Plan A is to replace the socket with a junction box mounted on
the stud, maintaining the ring main, and hard wire the cooker hood to
the same junction box.

then it's fused at 32A, bad idea. If the socket's on a 5 or 6A lighting circuit, no problem.


Plan B could be to just remount the existing socket on the stud, so that
it is recessed rather than flush, although I am not sure that would give
clearance for the cooker hood plug to be flush, too.

Are either of these options seriously non compliant or unsafe? I don't
want to find an insurance claim, for example, failing because of
allegedly dangerous wiring, or whatever.

An FCU & wiring it direct into a lighting circuit are also options.


NT

On 09/06/2018 09:18, Graeme wrote:

Having found a supplier of carbon filters, I need to mount our new (to
us!) cooker hood, which replaces an older non working hood.Â* There is a
13 amp socket in the wall, used by the original hood, but, because the
new hood is a different shape, and has to be mounted higher than the old
one, the power socket will directly behind the hood.

Directly behind the 13 amp socket, which is on a ring main, is a wooden
stud, so Plan A is to replace the socket with a junction box mounted on
the stud, maintaining the ring main, and hard wire the cooker hood to
the same junction box.

Plan B could be to just remount the existing socket on the stud, so that
it is recessed rather than flush, although I am not sure that would give
clearance for the cooker hood plug to be flush, too.

Are either of these options seriously non compliant or unsafe?Â* I don't
want to find an insurance claim, for example, failing because of
allegedly dangerous wiring, or whatever.

Does the cooker hood fit between two cupboards? If so, stick the socket
inside one of those.

If your cooker hood is a chimney type then most people tend to mount the connection unit (FCU) behind the chimney cowl so as not to see any wires, the cowls are usually easy to remove to access the FCU if needs be. However, you will still need an isolator switch mounted somewhere nearby and accessible. If the existing ring main socket is ending up behind the hood then I would be tempted to spur from it using Wago or other none maintenance connectors fit a blanking plate on. I would run the spur to some convenient point to mount the isolator switch and from the switch to the FCU. If your cooker hood is not a chimney type then we need further details.

Richard

I've often wondered why this sort of device does not have an internal or get
atable mains fuse as then it could be supplied with a hi quality cable and
wired in to the cooker supply assuming an Electric cooker of course.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 09/06/18 09:18, Graeme wrote:

Having found a supplier of carbon filters, I need to mount our new (to
us!) cooker hood, which replaces an older non working hood. There is a 13
amp socket in the wall, used by the original hood, but, because the new
hood is a different shape, and has to be mounted higher than the old one,
the power socket will directly behind the hood.

Directly behind the 13 amp socket, which is on a ring main, is a wooden
stud, so Plan A is to replace the socket with a junction box mounted on
the stud, maintaining the ring main, and hard wire the cooker hood to the
same junction box.

Non starter - you still need a fuse (so you need a fused spur, which takes
up the same space as a socket, minus perhaps the space of the plugtop)


Plan B could be to just remount the existing socket on the stud, so that
it is recessed rather than flush, although I am not sure that would give
clearance for the cooker hood plug to be flush, too.

In this case, you could consider the fused spur option. But you still need
to get to the fuse and have a means of isolation (so a switched fused
spur).

Can you drop a cable from the ceiling down to the hood?

Or can you joint the ring, take a spur up 6" above the new hood and mount
a socket there?


Are either of these options seriously non compliant or unsafe? I don't
want to find an insurance claim, for example, failing because of
allegedly dangerous wiring, or whatever.

In article ,
Graeme wrote:

Having found a supplier of carbon filters, I need to mount our new (to
us!) cooker hood, which replaces an older non working hood. There is a
13 amp socket in the wall, used by the original hood, but, because the
new hood is a different shape, and has to be mounted higher than the old
one, the power socket will directly behind the hood.

Directly behind the 13 amp socket, which is on a ring main, is a wooden
stud, so Plan A is to replace the socket with a junction box mounted on
the stud, maintaining the ring main, and hard wire the cooker hood to
the same junction box.

Plan B could be to just remount the existing socket on the stud, so that
it is recessed rather than flush, although I am not sure that would give
clearance for the cooker hood plug to be flush, too.

Are either of these options seriously non compliant or unsafe? I don't
want to find an insurance claim, for example, failing because of
allegedly dangerous wiring, or whatever.

Since cooker hoods tend to be high up on a wall, I usually wire them to
the lighting circuit which is closer. You can still fit an isolating
switch etc if needed.

--
*Where there's a will, I want to be in it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , Tim Watts
writes
On 09/06/18 09:18, Graeme wrote:

Directly behind the 13 amp socket, which is on a ring main, is a
wooden stud, so Plan A is to replace the socket with a junction box
mounted on the stud, maintaining the ring main, and hard wire the
cooker hood to the same junction box.

Non starter - you still need a fuse (so you need a fused spur, which
takes up the same space as a socket, minus perhaps the space of the
plugtop)

OK, noted, thanks.

Can you drop a cable from the ceiling down to the hood?

Or can you joint the ring, take a spur up 6" above the new hood and
mount a socket there?

Not impossible, but the whole wall is tiled (no cupboards), and I don't
really want to try cutting a hole for a socket, in existing tiles.
--
Graeme

In message , GB
writes
On 09/06/2018 09:18, Graeme wrote:
Are either of these options seriously non compliant or unsafe?* I
don't want to find an insurance claim, for example, failing because
of allegedly dangerous wiring, or whatever.

Does the cooker hood fit between two cupboards? If so, stick the socket
inside one of those.

Sadly not. Just a plain wall, tiled floor to ceiling.

--
Graeme

In message ,
Tricky Dicky writes
If your cooker hood is a chimney type then most people tend to mount
the connection unit (FCU) behind the chimney cowl so as not to see any
wires, the cowls are usually easy to remove to access the FCU if needs
be.

All of which seems to be the perfect solution. Yes, three sided bent
tin chimney. Not sure why I need a separate isolation switch, but rules
is rules.

Suppose I ran a short spur from the existing 13a socket, to a new
surface mounted 13a socket above the hood and behind the chimney? The
hood could still be isolated (by unplugging or switching off the new
socket), and would also be fused, within the plug. That way, just three
holes to drill through the existing tiles - two for screws, and one
larger one for the cable. The chimney just lifts off the hood.

--
Graeme

Couldn't you just run the wire from the existing to the new socket on the tiles? Assume that new hood completely covers the existing socket? Eg if you put a switched fused spur faceplate on the existing could you get to the switch by taking the cowl off the chimney bit?

On 09/06/2018 11:44, Brian Gaff wrote:
I've often wondered why this sort of device does not have an internal or get
atable mains fuse as then it could be supplied with a hi quality cable and
wired in to the cooker supply assuming an Electric cooker of course.

Because that still leaves the appliance flex itself without adequate
fault protection.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 09/06/2018 12:22, Graeme wrote:
In message , Tim Watts
writes
On 09/06/18 09:18, Graeme wrote:

Directly behind the 13 amp socket, which is on a ring main, is a
wooden stud, so Plan A is to replace the socket with a junction box
mounted on the stud, maintaining the ring main, and hard wire the
cooker hood to the same junction box.

Non starter - you still need a fuse (so you need a fused spur, which
takes up the same space as a socket, minus perhaps the space of the
plugtop)

OK, noted, thanks.

Can you drop a cable from the ceiling down to the hood?

Or can you joint the ring, take a spur up 6" above the new hood and
mount a socket there?

Not impossible, but the whole wall is tiled (no cupboards), and I don't
really want to try cutting a hole for a socket, in existing tiles.

Cutting holes in tiles is easy enough with a diamond saw in a
multimaster type tool:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...ve_(retrofi t)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message ,
writes
Couldn't you just run the wire from the existing to the new socket on
the tiles? Assume that new hood completely covers the existing socket?
Eg if you put a switched fused spur faceplate on the existing could you
get to the switch by taking the cowl off the chimney bit?

The existing socket will be completely covered by the hood, rather than
the chimney, which is a pain. The old hood was over an electric hob,
but the new hood will be over a gas hob, which means more clearance
required (750mm), so the new hood has to be higher on the wall. Bummer.

--
Graeme

On 09/06/2018 11:08, Tricky Dicky wrote:
If your cooker hood is a chimney type then most people tend to mount
the connection unit (FCU) behind the chimney cowl so as not to see
any wires, the cowls are usually easy to remove to access the FCU if
needs be. However, you will still need an isolator switch mounted
somewhere nearby and accessible. If the existing ring main socket is
ending up behind the hood then I would be tempted to spur from it
using Wago or other none maintenance connectors fit a blanking plate
on. I would run the spur to some convenient point to mount the
isolator switch and from the switch to the FCU. If your cooker hood
is not a chimney type then we need further details.

Or swap the socket for a FCU, and hardware from there if that allows
enough clearance.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 09/06/2018 12:42, Graeme wrote:
In message ,
Tricky Dicky writes
If your cooker hood is a chimney type then most people tend to mount
the connection unit (FCU) behind the chimney cowl so as not to see any
wires, the cowls are usually easy to remove to access the FCU if needs
be.

All of which seems to be the perfect solution. Yes, three sided bent
tin chimney. Not sure why I need a separate isolation switch, but rules
is rules.

Its anticipated that extractor fans etc may need cleaning from time to
time, so have a means of isolation is needed to make them safe to work
on. If there is a plug that can be withdrawn, then that will do you
don't need an extra switch. Also the switch on a FCU will also suffice.

Suppose I ran a short spur from the existing 13a socket, to a new
surface mounted 13a socket above the hood and behind the chimney? The
hood could still be isolated (by unplugging or switching off the new
socket), and would also be fused, within the plug. That way, just three
holes to drill through the existing tiles - two for screws, and one
larger one for the cable. The chimney just lifts off the hood.

Yup, that's fine


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

All of which seems to be the perfect solution. Yes, three sided bent
tin chimney. Not sure why I need a separate isolation switch, but rules
is rules.

I am not so sure about the rules but every professional installation I have seen has had an easily accessible isolating switch. I suppose if an earth fault develops and the casing becomes live or something catches fire you have no means of killing the power if the only means to isolate it is behind the cowl. Maybe Adam (ARW)may have a definitive answer?

Richard

In message , John
Rumm writes
On 09/06/2018 12:42, Graeme wrote:

Suppose I ran a short spur from the existing 13a socket, to a new
surface mounted 13a socket above the hood and behind the chimney?

Yup, that's fine

Excellent, thanks.
--
Graeme

Could you remove the existing socket and replace with an ultra flat blanking plate or maybe fashion a very thin cover so it is as flush to the existing tiles as possible. Was thinking you will have the issue of the socket bringing the new extractor off the wall a little.

In message ,
writes
Could you remove the existing socket and replace with an ultra flat
blanking plate or maybe fashion a very thin cover so it is as flush to
the existing tiles as possible. Was thinking you will have the issue of
the socket bringing the new extractor off the wall a little.

Yes, I thought that too, and there is just enough clearance behind the
socket to recess it slightly - certainly enough to make it flush with
the tiles, and it will never be used as a socket anyway, at least while
the cooker hood is in place.

--
Graeme

Dave Plowman (News) wrote :
Since cooker hoods tend to be high up on a wall, I usually wire them to
the lighting circuit which is closer. You can still fit an isolating
switch etc if needed.

If the chimney/ cover goes as high as the ceiling, then you could drop
a feed down inside the cover, with an isolation switch just to the side
of the cover.

On Sat, 09 Jun 2018 12:22:21 +0100, Graeme wrote:

In message , Tim Watts
writes
On 09/06/18 09:18, Graeme wrote:

Directly behind the 13 amp socket, which is on a ring main, is a
wooden stud, so Plan A is to replace the socket with a junction box
mounted on the stud, maintaining the ring main, and hard wire the
cooker hood to the same junction box.

Non starter - you still need a fuse (so you need a fused spur, which
takes up the same space as a socket, minus perhaps the space of the
plugtop)

OK, noted, thanks.

Can you drop a cable from the ceiling down to the hood?

Or can you joint the ring, take a spur up 6" above the new hood and
mount a socket there?

Not impossible, but the whole wall is tiled (no cupboards), and I don't
really want to try cutting a hole for a socket, in existing tiles.

If the loading isn't more than 2 amps, how about a clock connector?
Minimal front projection, so you could perhaps use a shallow surface box.
It's fused, too.

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MK0995.html



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

In message , Harry Bloomfield
writes
Dave Plowman (News) wrote :
Since cooker hoods tend to be high up on a wall, I usually wire them to
the lighting circuit which is closer. You can still fit an isolating
switch etc if needed.

If the chimney/ cover goes as high as the ceiling, then you could drop
a feed down inside the cover, with an isolation switch just to the side
of the cover.

Not that high, unfortunately - Victorian house with high ceilings.
--
Graeme

On 09/06/2018 14:06, Tricky Dicky wrote:
All of which seems to be the perfect solution. Yes, three sided
bent tin chimney. Not sure why I need a separate isolation switch,
but rules is rules.

I am not so sure about the rules but every professional installation
I have seen has had an easily accessible isolating switch. I suppose
if an earth fault develops and the casing becomes live or something
catches fire you have no means of killing the power if the only means
to isolate it is behind the cowl. Maybe Adam (ARW)may have a
definitive answer?

In the case of a fan, the switch is there for maintenance rather than
emergency isolation. So it does not need to be readily accessible or
especially visible.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , Bob Eager
writes
On Sat, 09 Jun 2018 12:22:21 +0100, Graeme wrote:

Not impossible, but the whole wall is tiled (no cupboards), and I don't
really want to try cutting a hole for a socket, in existing tiles.

If the loading isn't more than 2 amps, how about a clock connector?
Minimal front projection, so you could perhaps use a shallow surface box.
It's fused, too.

Now that is a good idea, and may just about be doable. I'll check the
total wattage tomorrow. Haven't seen one of those for a few years.
Parents had one over the mantle piece in house built 1953.
--
Graeme

On Sat, 09 Jun 2018 22:48:49 +0100, Graeme wrote:

In message , Bob Eager
writes
On Sat, 09 Jun 2018 12:22:21 +0100, Graeme wrote:

Not impossible, but the whole wall is tiled (no cupboards), and I
don't really want to try cutting a hole for a socket, in existing
tiles.

If the loading isn't more than 2 amps, how about a clock connector?
Minimal front projection, so you could perhaps use a shallow surface
box.
It's fused, too.

Now that is a good idea, and may just about be doable. I'll check the
total wattage tomorrow. Haven't seen one of those for a few years.
Parents had one over the mantle piece in house built 1953.

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MK0995.html


--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 09/06/2018 14:06, Tricky Dicky wrote:
All of which seems to be the perfect solution. Yes, three sided bent
tin chimney. Not sure why I need a separate isolation switch, but rules
is rules.

I am not so sure about the rules but every professional installation I have seen has had an easily accessible isolating switch. I suppose if an earth fault develops and the casing becomes live or something catches fire you have no means of killing the power if the only means to isolate it is behind the cowl. Maybe Adam (ARW)may have a definitive answer?

You would hope the 3A fuse blows if the cover becomes live. If not then
you are relying on the RCD to protect you.

I have seen plenty of installations where the cooker hood power is
behind the hood with no other means of isolation. It is not something I
would install that way.

As to if it complies with the regs I am not sure. I would say not best
practice but not dangerous.


--
Adam

On Mon, 11 Jun 2018 17:55:16 +0100, ARW wrote:

I have seen plenty of installations where the cooker hood power is
behind the hood with no other means of isolation. It is not something I
would install that way.

When we moved in, the double oven had its isolator screwed to the floor
of the cupboard immediately above the oven - at the back!

Needless to say, I moved that...

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 11/06/2018 19:04, Bob Eager wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2018 17:55:16 +0100, ARW wrote:

I have seen plenty of installations where the cooker hood power is
behind the hood with no other means of isolation. It is not something I
would install that way.

When we moved in, the double oven had its isolator screwed to the floor
of the cupboard immediately above the oven - at the back!

Needless to say, I moved that...



And why not? The lazy *******s that fitted it in the first place should
have done their job properly.

--
Adam

In message , ARW
writes

You would hope the 3A fuse blows if the cover becomes live. If not then
you are relying on the RCD to protect you.

I have seen plenty of installations where the cooker hood power is
behind the hood with no other means of isolation. It is not something I
would install that way.

As to if it complies with the regs I am not sure. I would say not best
practice but not dangerous.

Great advice Adam. Thank you.
--
Graeme