Tried this on mac-forums.com but no joy...

(Unless anyone knows an *good* Mac forums :P

I'm new to MacOSX, coming from Linux.

How do you associate different layout maps with different physical
keyboards - eg the built in one and a wired one (well wireless, but
dongle based, so looks like a wired one to the OS)

I can change the layout generally, and bugger up the inbuilt keyboard's
map - but I cannot for the life of me work out how to use 2 keyboards at
once with the correct maps applied to each.

Google is not my friend, except that I am coming to the conclusion
MacOSX can't actually handle this case.

But that's retarded, for an OS that I'm actually very impressed with -
so it must be me...

Tim Watts wrote:
I can change the layout generally, and bugger up the inbuilt keyboard's
map - but I cannot for the life of me work out how to use 2 keyboards at
once with the correct maps applied to each.

Have a look at Karabiner Elements. You can modify keyboard events from
specific keyboards. So it will allow them to work differently, but you
might have to manually create mappings for the keys you want.

Theo

On 10/05/18 17:33, Theo wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
I can change the layout generally, and bugger up the inbuilt keyboard's
map - but I cannot for the life of me work out how to use 2 keyboards at
once with the correct maps applied to each.

Have a look at Karabiner Elements. You can modify keyboard events from
specific keyboards. So it will allow them to work differently, but you
might have to manually create mappings for the keys you want.

Theo


Cool - Thanks Theo.

It's only a few things that are wrong - "@ are transposed, # buggered
off and a few similar examples. Shouldn't take long.


I'm just really quite surprised if MacOSX is too dumb to handle this
natively - external keyboards, especially Windows layout, are not a rare
thing to jack in to any laptop.

Tim Watts wrote:
I'm just really quite surprised if MacOSX is too dumb to handle this
natively - external keyboards, especially Windows layout, are not a rare
thing to jack in to any laptop.

Generally the Mac worldview is to eschew anything 'complicated'. So the
answer to 'complicated' questions is often 'it can't be done', where the
Linux worldview is 'everything can be done, but only if you root around in
obscure config'.

(Often something can be done on Macs too, just the config is even less
well-known. The Apple forum is particularly annoying for the posters whose
default answers are 'can't be done' or 'you'll need to pay $$$ for Shiny
Solution X')

Theo

On 10/05/18 18:53, Theo wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
I'm just really quite surprised if MacOSX is too dumb to handle this
natively - external keyboards, especially Windows layout, are not a rare
thing to jack in to any laptop.

Generally the Mac worldview is to eschew anything 'complicated'. So the
answer to 'complicated' questions is often 'it can't be done', where the
Linux worldview is 'everything can be done, but only if you root around in
obscure config'.

(Often something can be done on Macs too, just the config is even less
well-known. The Apple forum is particularly annoying for the posters whose
default answers are 'can't be done' or 'you'll need to pay $$$ for Shiny
Solution X')

Theo


Yes - I had: "What does Logitech say? They have software for their devices."

I shouldn't be rude, the guy did bother to type a reply (the only reply).

But, what? Really? It's a keyboard. A generic USB keyboard. Even Mac
users who aren't well versed in other OSes much sure have at some point
picked up an external PC keyboard, plugged it in, broken layout, fix
layout, notice built in mappings now buggered - and said "this is
******** - why doesn't it "just work"?

To be fair, I'm quite impressed with the general smoothness of MacOSX
(coming from Linux) and it does, for the most part "just work".

I departed from Linux for Lightroom+Photoshop (no, Darktable and Gimp
does not really cut the mustard, if you have a choice)

plus the kid's needed access to many of the Adobe apps (which I can get
on education discount so pretty cheap) and Sibelius and Logic Pro X (the
last is not so cheap!)

I could run most of those on Windows, but I'd rather screw up a
blacksmith's vice across my temples than support Windows with 2 kids all
over it.


I decided I'd probably have a more sensible conversation here

On 10/05/18 18:53, Theo wrote:
The Apple forum is particularly annoying for the posters whose
default answers are 'can't be done' or 'you'll need to pay $$$ for Shiny
Solution X'
Ah. The Apple mindset in a nutshell.


--
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin

On 10/05/18 19:15, Tim Watts wrote:
I'm quite impressed with the general smoothness of MacOSX (coming from
Linux) and it does, for the most part "just work".

I was for about a year until it just 'didn't work' and NO ONE could
tell me how to fix it.

I wnet back to linux MINT and was instantly bacl in a plavce where stuff
could be nade to work

--
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin

On 10/05/18 19:36, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/05/18 19:15, Tim Watts wrote:
I'm quite impressed with the general smoothness of MacOSX (coming from
Linux) and it does, for the most part "just work".

I was for about aÂ* year until it just 'didn't work' and NO ONE could
tell me how to fix it.

I wnet back to linux MINT and was instantly bacl in a plavce where stuff
could be nade to work


Your keyboard needs remapping.

On 10/05/18 19:36, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/05/18 19:15, Tim Watts wrote:
I'm quite impressed with the general smoothness of MacOSX (coming from
Linux) and it does, for the most part "just work".

I was for about aÂ* year until it just 'didn't work' and NO ONE could
tell me how to fix it.

I wnet back to linux MINT and was instantly bacl in a plavce where stuff
could be nade to work


Oh indeed - linux is the most flexible OS there is (maybe BSD, but I
have no experience...)

But when your objective is "run commercial software x,y and z" Mac does
make sense.

We have 1 shared Mac. It was not cheap (even with discount) - so we use
our other chromebooks and linux laptops for "consumer/everyday" stuff
and pass the Mac around for the stuff it does well.

Tim Watts wrote:
Yes - I had: "What does Logitech say? They have software for their devices."

I shouldn't be rude, the guy did bother to type a reply (the only reply).

TBF there might be a third party workaround. But if you come from the Linux
mindset you automatically expect everything to be included and third party
drivers to be complete junk. MacOS is a bit more like Windows in that
respect: it's not Apple's job to make the experience nice for everything you
might add to your machine - the vendor sold you the hardware and the drivers
are also their responsibility.

But, what? Really? It's a keyboard. A generic USB keyboard. Even Mac
users who aren't well versed in other OSes much sure have at some point
picked up an external PC keyboard, plugged it in, broken layout, fix
layout, notice built in mappings now buggered - and said "this is
******** - why doesn't it "just work"?

Increasingly more drivers are being written by Apple these days, and more
devices are picking chips for which Apple have already written drivers, so
the above balance is shifting towards the Linux position. (It's also
becoming increasingly more difficult to write kernel extensions since
they're such a security risk and due to the amount of vetting Apple
requires)

I decided I'd probably have a more sensible conversation here

uk.comp.sys.mac is quite friendly and has quite a few people who Know Stuff.
Also covers iOS gadgets as well.

Theo

On 10/05/18 22:37, Theo wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:
Yes - I had: "What does Logitech say? They have software for their devices."

I shouldn't be rude, the guy did bother to type a reply (the only reply).

TBF there might be a third party workaround. But if you come from the Linux
mindset you automatically expect everything to be included and third party
drivers to be complete junk. MacOS is a bit more like Windows in that
respect: it's not Apple's job to make the experience nice for everything you
might add to your machine - the vendor sold you the hardware and the drivers
are also their responsibility.

But, what? Really? It's a keyboard. A generic USB keyboard. Even Mac
users who aren't well versed in other OSes much sure have at some point
picked up an external PC keyboard, plugged it in, broken layout, fix
layout, notice built in mappings now buggered - and said "this is
******** - why doesn't it "just work"?

Increasingly more drivers are being written by Apple these days, and more
devices are picking chips for which Apple have already written drivers, so
the above balance is shifting towards the Linux position. (It's also
becoming increasingly more difficult to write kernel extensions since
they're such a security risk and due to the amount of vetting Apple
requires)

I decided I'd probably have a more sensible conversation here

uk.comp.sys.mac is quite friendly and has quite a few people who Know Stuff.
Also covers iOS gadgets as well.

Theo


Thank you

On 10/05/18 19:52, Richard wrote:
On 10/05/18 19:36, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/05/18 19:15, Tim Watts wrote:
I'm quite impressed with the general smoothness of MacOSX (coming
from Linux) and it does, for the most part "just work".

I was for about aÂ* year until it just 'didn't work' and NO ONE could
tell me how to fix it.

I wnet back to linux MINT and was instantly bacl in a plavce where
stuff could be nade to work


Your keyboard needs remapping.

Nope. I need toi bin firefox and thunderbird since they now miss keystrokes


--
"And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".

Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14