On 14/02/2018 00:17, Johnny B Good wrote:

I did a search expecting to find plenty of freeware versions but I
mostly landed up on sites offering much later versions that weren't free
or shareware. The I added "abandonware" to my search phrase which led me
to sites requiring registration just to download my chosen "Abandonware"
but I did land up on one that didn't insist on registration of any sort
so was able to download a tiny programme called "interlink" as a 35KB zip
file containing 55KB's worth in four files just to test the download and
take a peek at the files.

FWIW I probably still have an original set of Laplink III disks I could
zip/make an image of if anyone needs it.

(probably even got the original "hydra" laplink cable as well somewhere!)




--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/

On 14/02/2018 09:21, Martin Brown wrote:

I am fairly sure that DOS software to write CDs and the even earlier
Panasonic proprietary PD disks was available in the dim and distant past
back when they were expensive SCSI based peripherals. Secondhand SCSI
writers are still available but finding a set of the drivers and shims
to make it all work today on DOS might be something of a challenge.

Adaptec EasySCSI will provide a set of ASPI drivers...

Getting the network card to behave on the embedded box and then using
network shares might be the least difficult way out. The external PC can
run a modern OS that handles the backup process.

One of the old TCP/IP application stacks for DOS with FTP would probably
be an option. (assuming once loaded there is enough ram left to run the
CNC software ;-) Ah the joys of DOS emm/xms/umb management.



--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...


For clarification, which machine are you trying to write CDs from? the old
viglen, or the new SFF box?

(I got the impression this was a "one off" bulk shift of data from the old
box).


John I already have transferred the old (1995) software by painful floppy !
The new machine (Compac DC7600) is up and running the software though not
yet driving the machine

What I'm trying to set up to do is generate CD's on the lathe to archive (or
off machine modify) parts programs, tool lists, operation sequences etc


Andrew

On 14/02/18 12:23, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 09:33:51 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The OP doesnt mention custom hardware at all.

"legacy CNC machine"

Oh. Was that XT, AT or PCI?


--
"I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah
puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".

On 14/02/18 12:51, John Rumm wrote:
(I got the impression this was a "one off" bulk shift of data from the
old box).

Me too, but its seems not


--
"If you dont read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

On 14/02/18 13:00, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/02/2018 09:21, Martin Brown wrote:

I am fairly sure that DOS software to write CDs and the even earlier
Panasonic proprietary PD disks was available in the dim and distant past
back when they were expensive SCSI based peripherals. Secondhand SCSI
writers are still available but finding a set of the drivers and shims
to make it all work today on DOS might be something of a challenge.

Adaptec EasySCSI will provide a set of ASPI drivers...

Getting the network card to behave on the embedded box and then using
network shares might be the least difficult way out. The external PC can
run a modern OS that handles the backup process.

One of the old TCP/IP application stacks for DOS with FTP would probably
be an option. (assuming once loaded there is enough ram left to run the
CNC software ;-) Ah the joys of DOS emm/xms/umb management.



Micosofts stack is about 200K. I posted a link to it earlier. It will
need an NDIS driver for the onboard ethernet. I posted a link to that
earlier.


I think that is not only doable, but is very much simplest.

Once the machine is set to boot and mount another GUI equipped
machine's shared directories, a simple file copy does the transfer and
you can archive away to your hearts content from the GUI machine.




--
"If you dont read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 11:36:53 -0000, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:

snip

I deliberately chose a DC7600 (off my pile of them !) that DOES have a
floppy facia and drive as well as the normal CD/DVD one,

Ah, cool. ;-)

so I do have the
option of floppy transfer but it's a pain.

Because?

Sadly all my adventures running
Linux have ended with much confusion and a splitting headache

Yup, it can be like that and was for me, especially at the beginning
when it rarely worked out of the box. Nowdays though and on everyday
kit it can be ok (working with all your PC / internal hardware at
least).

The thought
of booting some operating system from a USB stick that will allow me to see
the DOS files on the C: drive and write CDs though does sound quite possible

It is indeed and I generally carry a bootable USB stick in my pocket
and a couple of bootable DVD's in the car.

As a good starting point I'd recommend a Linux Mint. It seems to be
targeted at ordinary users (not geeks) and the same image can be
burned to DVD or put on a USB drive.

I'd start off with the latest Linux Mint MATE (32 bit) as that has a
lightweight desktop:

http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/w...mate-32bit.iso

I'd use Imgburn to put it on a DVD:

http://www.imgburn.com/

And YUMI to put it (and any others you might like to try) on a USB
drive.

https://www.pendrivelinux.com/yumi-m...t-usb-creator/


Check both will boot, work in general and can see the hard drive and
the rest should be pretty easy. ;-)

Floppy for the odd file in or out, Linux for yer bigger stuff. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

p.s. If you have a stack of spare PC's it might be worth installing
Linux (Mint 18 MATE 64 bit) on one of them just for the S&G's. ;-)

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 11:29:55 -0000, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
Yeah. As usual what the OP really wants only emerges after a load of wasted
suggestions

I really do think the requirement was clearly stated in the original post.
Perhaps you missed that one ?

I think several things come into play he

A familiarity with the overall setup.

The ability to read English (yes, you did state all that was needed in
your OP).

Not being a left brainer (who can't read between the lines and try to
push their weakness on others) and assume that all the key facts had
not already been stated or that the poster didn't already have a clue
about what they were doing. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 13/02/2018 21:11, jim wrote:
"dennis@home" Wrote in message:
On 13/02/2018 19:54, Andrew Mawson wrote:
OK wrong forum I know but there are a lot of knowledgeable people on
this forum

I need some software that will run under DOS 6.22 that will allow me to
copy files to a CD/DVD-ROM Drive. This is on a legacy CNC machine - I'm
replacing a dying Viglen PC where the only exchangeable media is 4.5"
Floppy for a Compac DC7600 SFF PC that I have which also has CD/DVD
read / write drive that would be very handy for data exchange.

NB this is running genuine DOS 6.22 NOT a DOS window under Windoze !

Any pointers very welcome !


Andrew

Boot a live CD disk and use that to copy the files.
Maybe put a USB card in and use a flash drive rather than a CD.
You can get bootable CDs for linux or windows that will probably work.



How much ram & other resources does a dos6.22 violence have Dennis?

I have no idea how violent it is.

Which version of Linux would you recommend?


I'd try this first https://livecdlist.com/systemrescuecd/

"T i m" wrote in message ...

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 11:36:53 -0000, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:

snip

I deliberately chose a DC7600 (off my pile of them !) that DOES have a
floppy facia and drive as well as the normal CD/DVD one,

Ah, cool. ;-)

so I do have the
option of floppy transfer but it's a pain.

Because?

Sadly all my adventures running
Linux have ended with much confusion and a splitting headache

Yup, it can be like that and was for me, especially at the beginning
when it rarely worked out of the box. Nowdays though and on everyday
kit it can be ok (working with all your PC / internal hardware at
least).

The thought
of booting some operating system from a USB stick that will allow me to
see
the DOS files on the C: drive and write CDs though does sound quite
possible

It is indeed and I generally carry a bootable USB stick in my pocket
and a couple of bootable DVD's in the car.

As a good starting point I'd recommend a Linux Mint. It seems to be
targeted at ordinary users (not geeks) and the same image can be
burned to DVD or put on a USB drive.

I'd start off with the latest Linux Mint MATE (32 bit) as that has a
lightweight desktop:

http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/w...mate-32bit.iso

I'd use Imgburn to put it on a DVD:

http://www.imgburn.com/

And YUMI to put it (and any others you might like to try) on a USB
drive.

https://www.pendrivelinux.com/yumi-m...t-usb-creator/


Check both will boot, work in general and can see the hard drive and
the rest should be pretty easy. ;-)

Floppy for the odd file in or out, Linux for yer bigger stuff. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

p.s. If you have a stack of spare PC's it might be worth installing
Linux (Mint 18 MATE 64 bit) on one of them just for the S&G's. ;-)


Tim, Very many thanks for those suggestions. I've successfully loaded linux
mint mate onto a USB stick - got the PC onto my local network and copied
files from the Compaq DC7600 that's going in the lathe onto my desktop PC
(confusingly another DC7600!!) I'm a bit shaky on permissions so need to
poke about a bit but at the end of the day I have transferred an entire
DOS6.22 folder onto my desktop machine.

Now need to see if there is any software that I can load onto the stick mint
thingy to burn CD's - the CD drive isn't showing under devices in MINT -
sure it must be possible but all suggestions welcome

Again many thanks

Andrew

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 17:03:45 -0000, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:

snip

p.s. If you have a stack of spare PC's it might be worth installing
Linux (Mint 18 MATE 64 bit) on one of them just for the S&G's. ;-)


Tim, Very many thanks for those suggestions.

You are welcome (and not the only one to suggest a 'LiveLinux' of
course). ;-)

I've successfully loaded linux
mint mate onto a USB stick

Cool. ;-)

- got the PC onto my local network and copied
files from the Compaq DC7600 that's going in the lathe onto my desktop PC
(confusingly another DC7600!!)

Excellent.

I'm a bit shaky on permissions so need to
poke about a bit but at the end of the day I have transferred an entire
DOS6.22 folder onto my desktop machine.

Well,considering how little capacity that takes up and how much
capacity is available on most PC's these days that shouldn't be an
issue. And whilst the files wouldn't help you restore a broken boot,
it would give you a spare set of files to replace a damaged one if
required. ;-)

Now need to see if there is any software that I can load onto the stick mint
thingy to burn CD's - the CD drive isn't showing under devices in MINT -
sure it must be possible but all suggestions welcome

You should just be able to select the files you want, right click on
them and send them to the optical drive?

Again many thanks

I'm just glad you have found a solution that works. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 12:48:15 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 13/02/2018 19:54, Andrew Mawson wrote:
OK wrong forum I know but there are a lot of knowledgeable people on
this forum

I need some software that will run under DOS 6.22 that will allow me to
copy files to a CD/DVD-ROM Drive. This is on a legacy CNC machine - I'm
replacing a dying Viglen PC where the only exchangeable media is 4.5"
Floppy for a Compac DC7600 SFF PC that I have which also has CD/DVD
read / write drive that would be very handy for data exchange.

NB this is running genuine DOS 6.22 NOT a DOS window under Windoze !

Any pointers very welcome !

A quick option would be a copy of laplink and a serial or parallel
transfer cable. Just suck the files off to a laptop etc.

I'm not sure that simple file transfer is what is needed; I think a long
term CD writer is more the issue.

But if it were, no need for laplink. INTERLNK ad INTERSVR came with DOS
6.22.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 14/02/2018 20:03, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 12:48:15 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 13/02/2018 19:54, Andrew Mawson wrote:
OK wrong forum I know but there are a lot of knowledgeable people on
this forum

I need some software that will run under DOS 6.22 that will allow me to
copy files to a CD/DVD-ROM Drive. This is on a legacy CNC machine - I'm
replacing a dying Viglen PC where the only exchangeable media is 4.5"
Floppy for a Compac DC7600 SFF PC that I have which also has CD/DVD
read / write drive that would be very handy for data exchange.

NB this is running genuine DOS 6.22 NOT a DOS window under Windoze !

Any pointers very welcome !

A quick option would be a copy of laplink and a serial or parallel
transfer cable. Just suck the files off to a laptop etc.

I'm not sure that simple file transfer is what is needed; I think a long
term CD writer is more the issue.

But if it were, no need for laplink. INTERLNK ad INTERSVR came with DOS
6.22.

My response was assuming the OP wanted a way of recovering stuff from
the old machine - I was not suggesting it as an ongoing solution for
access to stuff on the replacement.

I realise I was answering the wrong question now.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 08:39:12 +0000, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:

Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 00:45:45 +0000, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:

Andrew Mawson wrote:
OK wrong forum I know but there are a lot of knowledgeable people on
this forum

I need some software that will run under DOS 6.22 that will allow me
to copy files to a CD/DVD-ROM Drive. This is on a legacy CNC machine
- I'm replacing a dying Viglen PC where the only exchangeable media
is 4.5" Floppy for a Compac DC7600 SFF PC that I have which also has
CD/DVD read / write drive that would be very handy for data exchange.

NB this is running genuine DOS 6.22 NOT a DOS window under Windoze !

Any pointers very welcome !


Andrew

Do you think you could run this in a VM? You might try Disk2VHD,
which would at least give you a copy of the whole thing to play with.
The VHD can then be opened in something like 7zip, and individual
files transferred, if you don't want to try to boot it up in a VM.

How does this help him WRITE a CD?


I thought he was only looking for a way to get data from the disk.

Me too! However, between his OP and further follow ups to the group, I
gather that what he's after is a means of exchanging data between the SFF
upon which he has resurrected the OS and apps that had been running on a
dying Viglen, and other more modern PCs via CD-R media.

Intrigued by how he was able to install MSDOS 6.22, which is normally
distributed on three 1.44MB floppy disks, onto the SFF which, as I
expected, doesn't have a built in FDD, I googled for the specs. Although
it lacks most things, it claims to possess a SATA II 16x DVD re-writer/48
speed CD re-writer *and* an IDE CD-RW/DVD-ROM combo drive. Being a SFF, I
wouldn't have expected it to sport even an ATA(IDE) connector, let alone
an FDD header but, only after scrolling down a very long page of
confusing specifications, it appears amazingly enough, to include an ATA
(IDE) header (although still no FDD header).

He didn't explain how he managed to install MSDOS 6.22 onto a floppyless
PC nor how he transferred the software over, so one is left to assume
that he cloned the HDD from the Viglen to the 80GB SATA HDD in the HP/
Compaq SFF machine, relying on the BIOS setting to configure the SATA
ports into IDE compatability mode, or else he's just simply moved the
drive from out of the old Viglen into the new machine and simply
configured it to boot from that.

Without such details, it was all but impossible to properly understand
why he needed help in getting a CD Re-writer to function as a writer
under MSDOS 6.22 . The CDROM aspect is covered by the basic DOS ATAPI
driver files which I think may have been available on the installation
floppies by then - it *was* a long time ago since I last used MSDOS 6.22
(and even longer since MSDOS 3.30)!

I can't recall whether CDROM burning software became available before
windows 95 arrived on the scene so I can't definitively say that such DOS
only CDROM burning software ever existed. A better option might be USB
flash media as the basis for his "Sneakernet"(tm) method of data exchange
or, better still, and more likely, a network adapter using DOS drivers
which were still being supplied even with Fast ethernet PCI adapters.

Although the built in LAN port is Gigabit Ethernet, there might still be
DOS driver software available for the ethernet chip used on the MoBo.
Failing that, assuming there's a spare PCI slot - the specs fail to say
anything about that- he could fit a fast ethernet adapter that still has
dos driver support available as pretty well most did.

If he can supply a bit more info on how this PC interfaces to the CNC
machine, we might even be able to advise him on setting up virtualisation
software[1] running under the SFF's original winXP Host OS (or even under
a Linux host), assuming a serial or printer port was used for the CNC
interface, which can be passed through[2] to a suitably configured VM
clone of the MSDOS 6.22 installation as it was originally set up on the
old Viglen.

[1] There was no mention in the specs as to whether or not the 64 bit P4
CPU used in the SFF machine, supported hardware virtualisation with
Intel's VT-x feature so he might have to use virtualisation software
which, like Oracle's free VirtualBox, isn't reliant on such hardware
support. Even without the benefit of such hardware support, I'd expect
the SFF hosted VM to still be at least an order of magnitude more
powerful than the original Viglen machine so shouldn't suffer
'performance issues' in this application.

[2] I'm running VirtualBox which, on checking the stopped VMs'
configurations, appears to only support Serial Port pass-through. There
wasn't an option for parallel ports. However, it might support this in a
DOS VM but not having set such a VM up, I have no simple way to verify
this. I'd have to trawl through the comprehensive user guide to dig this
sort of arcane information out and I'm not about to do so this at this
stage of the proceedings.

--
Johnny B Good

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 11:29:55 +0000, Andrew Mawson wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
Yeah. As usual what the OP really wants only emerges after a load of
wasted suggestions

I really do think the requirement was clearly stated in the original
post.
Perhaps you missed that one ?


Not clearly enough imo. However, perhaps you can offer a little more
info as to how you got from a failing Viglen to a functioning install of
DOS 6.22 on a floppyless SFF machine that was originally supplied with
winXP as its host OS.

It appears that you're not *just* trying to get CD burning software to
run under DOS just for the hell of it so much as to find a pragmatic
solution to "Sneakernetting"(tm) data back and forth between other
machines and this DOS afflicted SFF machine. The extra details may help
us to find you a better 'pragmatic solution' to your problem.

--
Johnny B Good

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 11:56:41 +0000, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:

Andrew Mawson wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
Yeah. As usual what the OP really wants only emerges after a load of
wasted suggestions

I really do think the requirement was clearly stated in the original
post. Perhaps you missed that one ?

Andrew


I'm going to admit that I was a bit confused, although that is probably
obvious by now :-) I thought you just wanted to get some data off the
old PC, for importing into new software on the new PC. I didn't realise
you planned to run the same OS and software on the new one, too. But
yes, it seems clear enough now. If the software drives a specialised
controller, I don't think you can communicate with it from a VM. If it
uses standard connectors that already exist on the new PC, there's a
chance you can. If you are able to run it in a VM, then you can use
folder sharing for the data transfer.

Nicely said! :-)

Unless Andrew cares to expand a little more on the details, I'm assuming
that the CNC interface is either serial port based (or possibly parallel
or even SCSI port) since any specialist adapters made when DOS was King,
are likely to be ISA cards rather than PCI. However, that is pure, best
guess, speculation on my part so we need him to clarify this point before
we can start to consider the virtualisation route.
n
--
Johnny B Good

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 08:08:07 +0000, Andrew Mawson wrote:

"Bob Eager" wrote in message ...

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 00:45:45 +0000, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:

Andrew Mawson wrote:
OK wrong forum I know but there are a lot of knowledgeable people on
this forum

I need some software that will run under DOS 6.22 that will allow me
to copy files to a CD/DVD-ROM Drive. This is on a legacy CNC machine
- I'm replacing a dying Viglen PC where the only exchangeable media
is 4.5" Floppy for a Compac DC7600 SFF PC that I have which also has
CD/DVD read / write drive that would be very handy for data exchange.

NB this is running genuine DOS 6.22 NOT a DOS window under Windoze !

Any pointers very welcome !


Andrew

Do you think you could run this in a VM? You might try Disk2VHD,
which would at least give you a copy of the whole thing to play with.
The VHD can then be opened in something like 7zip, and individual
files transferred, if you don't want to try to boot it up in a VM.

How does this help him WRITE a CD?




Many thanks for the various replies.

I have already backed up the original Viglen PC that runs DOS 6.2 using
MSBACKUP (13 Floppies)

Ouch!

and restored them to the replacement Compac DC7600 by loading the 6.2
version of MSBACKUP onto the DC7600 (as the 6.2 and 6.22 versions aren't
compatible !!!!)

How? According to the specs for that machine, it doesn't have a floppy
disk drive - please explain.

The DC7600 is up and running, I've put drivers in the autoexec &
config.sys to allow me to READ CDs -

Ok so far... If there are DOS based versions of CD writing software
still available, installing such would be the next step since they often
included the necessary dos CD writing driver support files. You might
still have a problem finding a dos compatible driver for the existing CD
writer though so you might have to resort to locating an older model of
writer that does have dos driver support (and that may still leave you
having to scrabble around for CD writing software that supports your
chosen CD writer). You may yet have a lot more googling to do before you
solve that problem (or you just might strike it lucky first go).


The issue is I want to be able to WRITE CDs on the DC7600 when it's been
embedded into the CNC Lathe to replace the Viglen - this is to be able
to transfer files easily in the future for both backup reasons, and also
to transfer part programs that have been created on the lathe.

That's a curious expression ("embedded into", that is). is that CNC
Manufacturer-speak for "Linked up to the PC", via some sort of
communication cable that uses an existing serial or parallel port or else
a SCSI or proprietary adapter installed into one of the expansion slots
in the Viglen?

If the connection is via a standard serial port, that makes the virtual
machine option a "No-Brainer"(tm) since, as Dan has pointed out, you can
share folders read/write between the VM guest and the host OS which has
USB pen drive and CDRW and network support to satisfy your need to
transfer data to other machine almost any way you care to choose.

The answer to that question will have a profound effect on your choice
of solution. Likewise regarding the basic specs of the original Viglen
setup such as ram size etc.


Johnny - B -Good thanks for that link as the USB ports would be handy
also


It would be nice if it works but, unfortunately, no guarantees on this.
However, since it's such a tiny download, it's worth giving it a shot.

--
Johnny B Good

Johnny B Good Wrote in message:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 08:39:12 +0000, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:

Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 00:45:45 +0000, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:

Andrew Mawson wrote:
OK wrong forum I know but there are a lot of knowledgeable people on
this forum

I need some software that will run under DOS 6.22 that will allow me
to copy files to a CD/DVD-ROM Drive. This is on a legacy CNC machine
- I'm replacing a dying Viglen PC where the only exchangeable media
is 4.5" Floppy for a Compac DC7600 SFF PC that I have which also has
CD/DVD read / write drive that would be very handy for data exchange.

NB this is running genuine DOS 6.22 NOT a DOS window under Windoze !

Any pointers very welcome !


Andrew

Do you think you could run this in a VM? You might try Disk2VHD,
which would at least give you a copy of the whole thing to play with.
The VHD can then be opened in something like 7zip, and individual
files transferred, if you don't want to try to boot it up in a VM.

How does this help him WRITE a CD?


I thought he was only looking for a way to get data from the disk.

Me too! However, between his OP and further follow ups to the group, I
gather that what he's after is a means of exchanging data between the SFF
upon which he has resurrected the OS and apps that had been running on a
dying Viglen, and other more modern PCs via CD-R media.

Intrigued by how he was able to install MSDOS 6.22, which is normally
distributed on three 1.44MB floppy disks, onto the SFF which, as I
expected, doesn't have a built in FDD, I googled for the specs. Although
it lacks most things, it claims to possess a SATA II 16x DVD re-writer/48
speed CD re-writer *and* an IDE CD-RW/DVD-ROM combo drive. Being a SFF, I
wouldn't have expected it to sport even an ATA(IDE) connector, let alone
an FDD header but, only after scrolling down a very long page of
confusing specifications, it appears amazingly enough, to include an ATA
(IDE) header (although still no FDD header).

He didn't explain how he managed to install MSDOS 6.22 onto a floppyless
PC nor how he transferred the software over, so one is left to assume
that he cloned the HDD from the Viglen to the 80GB SATA HDD in the HP/
Compaq SFF machine, relying on the BIOS setting to configure the SATA
ports into IDE compatability mode, or else he's just simply moved the
drive from out of the old Viglen into the new machine and simply
configured it to boot from that.

Without such details, it was all but impossible to properly understand
why he needed help in getting a CD Re-writer to function as a writer
under MSDOS 6.22 . The CDROM aspect is covered by the basic DOS ATAPI
driver files which I think may have been available on the installation
floppies by then - it *was* a long time ago since I last used MSDOS 6.22
(and even longer since MSDOS 3.30)!

I can't recall whether CDROM burning software became available before
windows 95 arrived on the scene so I can't definitively say that such DOS
only CDROM burning software ever existed. A better option might be USB
flash media as the basis for his "Sneakernet"(tm) method of data exchange
or, better still, and more likely, a network adapter using DOS drivers
which were still being supplied even with Fast ethernet PCI adapters.

Although the built in LAN port is Gigabit Ethernet, there might still be
DOS driver software available for the ethernet chip used on the MoBo.
Failing that, assuming there's a spare PCI slot - the specs fail to say
anything about that- he could fit a fast ethernet adapter that still has
dos driver support available as pretty well most did.

If he can supply a bit more info on how this PC interfaces to the CNC
machine, we might even be able to advise him on setting up virtualisation
software[1] running under the SFF's original winXP Host OS (or even under
a Linux host), assuming a serial or printer port was used for the CNC
interface, which can be passed through[2] to a suitably configured VM
clone of the MSDOS 6.22 installation as it was originally set up on the
old Viglen.

[1] There was no mention in the specs as to whether or not the 64 bit P4
CPU used in the SFF machine, supported hardware virtualisation with
Intel's VT-x feature so he might have to use virtualisation software
which, like Oracle's free VirtualBox, isn't reliant on such hardware
support. Even without the benefit of such hardware support, I'd expect
the SFF hosted VM to still be at least an order of magnitude more
powerful than the original Viglen machine so shouldn't suffer
'performance issues' in this application.

[2] I'm running VirtualBox which, on checking the stopped VMs'
configurations, appears to only support Serial Port pass-through. There
wasn't an option for parallel ports. However, it might support this in a
DOS VM but not having set such a VM up, I have no simple way to verify
this. I'd have to trawl through the comprehensive user guide to dig this
sort of arcane information out and I'm not about to do so this at this
stage of the proceedings.


FFS if you read the thread with half as much effort as you put
into these fecking monologues you would already know how the pc
communicates with the CNC m/c.
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 11:28:12 +0000, Andrew Mawson wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news

On 14/02/18 09:21, Martin Brown wrote:
On 14/02/2018 08:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/02/18 08:08, Andrew Mawson wrote:
The issue is I want to be able to WRITE CDs on the DC7600 when it's
been embedded into the CNC Lathe to replace the Viglen - this is to
be able to transfer files easily in the future for both backup
reasons, and also to transfer part programs that have been created
on the lathe.

Ah.

Finally the context emerges.

Honestly your best bet may be to run the DOS in a VM and use the
actual host system to do the DVD burning.

I expect the reason it has to be MSDOS 6.x is that there are real mode
peeky pokey drivers that prod some custom interface hardware directly.


Not necessarily. Ive seen a lot done with just a serial port..

The OP doesnt mention custom hardware at all.



Although there is oodles of custom hardware in the machine it is all
interfaced by two serial ports. One is slow speed and not timing
critical as it is only the operators panel / keyboard, however the other
(I presume) is running flat out at top speed as timing is very critical
during threading operations as it has to synchronise readings from the
main shaft optical encoder with the X and Z axis drivers.


If I understood that correctly, the machine in question is *not* as most
might conclude, the PC but the CNC machine itself. The Viglen PC doesn't
seem to require anything more exotic than a couple of com ports (serial)
which were standard issue even if extra socket hardware was required to
be mounted in knockouts on the back panel or added as backplate slot
adapters to connect onto the motherboard headers or else the optional 2nd
com port header on an I/O adapter card.

If that's the case, then using virtualisation software would appear to
be the most obvious solution to your current dilemma.

--
Johnny B Good

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 13:00:05 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 14/02/2018 09:21, Martin Brown wrote:

I am fairly sure that DOS software to write CDs and the even earlier
Panasonic proprietary PD disks was available in the dim and distant
past back when they were expensive SCSI based peripherals. Secondhand
SCSI writers are still available but finding a set of the drivers and
shims to make it all work today on DOS might be something of a
challenge.

Adaptec EasySCSI will provide a set of ASPI drivers...

Getting the network card to behave on the embedded box and then using
network shares might be the least difficult way out. The external PC
can run a modern OS that handles the backup process.

One of the old TCP/IP application stacks for DOS with FTP would probably
be an option. (assuming once loaded there is enough ram left to run the
CNC software ;-) Ah the joys of DOS emm/xms/umb management.

This is what makes virtualisation the winner. If ever there was a case
of a "Solution looking for a problem to solve.", virtualisation is that
"Solution" and Andrew's problem is that very problem virtualisation was
looking to solve. :-)

Oracle's VirtualBox can be installed on either windows or unix hosts
(free for personal use - I suspect Andrew might have to pay a licence fee
in this commercial usage case though) and although it can benefit from
Intel's VT-x processor feature, it isn't reliant upon its presence which
might be an important consideration in this case.

--
Johnny B Good

"Johnny B Good" wrote in message ...

Andrew Mawson wrote:
OK wrong forum I know but there are a lot of knowledgeable people on
this forum

I need some software that will run under DOS 6.22 that will allow me
to copy files to a CD/DVD-ROM Drive. This is on a legacy CNC machine
- I'm replacing a dying Viglen PC where the only exchangeable media
is 4.5" Floppy for a Compac DC7600 SFF PC that I have which also has
CD/DVD read / write drive that would be very handy for data exchange.

NB this is running genuine DOS 6.22 NOT a DOS window under Windoze !

Any pointers very welcome !


Andrew
If he can supply a bit more info on how this PC interfaces to the CNC
machine, we might even be able to advise him on setting up virtualisation
software[1] running under the SFF's original winXP Host OS (or even under
a Linux host), assuming a serial or printer port was used for the CNC
interface, which can be passed through[2] to a suitably configured VM
clone of the MSDOS 6.22 installation as it was originally set up on the
old Viglen.

--
Johnny B Good

Johnny,

A/ The original Viglen is fully functional but mechanically a write off

B/ The Viglen runs DOS 6.2 and has a floppy drive and HDD and two serial
ports

C/ One serial port is for an operators panel, the other is for the machine
CC controller

D/ I took an MSBACKUP of the VIGLEN HDD under DOS6.2 on 13 floppies

E/ The COMPAC DC7600 SFF was running Windows 7 and has floppy, SATA HDD and
CD/DVD writer, one serial port and a network 10/100 port and 4 Gb RAM

F/ I Repartitioned and formatted its HDD and loaded DOS 6.22 from the three
original Microsoft disks

G/ I copied the full DOS 6.2 MSBACKUP suite to a folder on the DC7600

H/ I ran DOS 6.2 MSBACKUP under DOS 6.22 and restored all the VIGLEN files
to the DC7600 EXCEPT the DOS folder

I/ (You need to know the MSBACKUP 6.22 cannot read MSBACKUP 6.2 floppies)

J/ At this stage I had a fully functional DC7600 running DOS 6.22 and the
original controller software from the VIGLEN (except it only had one serial
port)

K/ Being an SFF I needed a small form factor PCI serial card - the only one
I could source with DOS drivers was a StarTech PEX2S5521P

L/ The machine now has three serial ports and I just need to configure the
IRQ to match the original

M/ I sourced some DOS drivers for the CR/DVD which allowed me to read but
not write CDs

N/ This is when I posted asking for assistance for DOS software to WRITE CDs
so that the machine files can easily be transferred in future

O/ I have (Thanks to TIM) loaded a USB stick with Linux MINT and K3B CD
software allowing me not only to boot up MINT and generate CD's but also
connect to my network and transfer files that way !!!

P/ The only oddity left is that the CDs generated read properly under MINT
in the DC7600 and also und WIN7 on another machine but under DOS 6.22 in the
DC7600 are rather flaky and rarely read ok.

Q/ I am assuming this is due to the DOS drivers I'm using (can't name them
at the moment as I'm on a different PC)



Thank you all for your assistance but I do feel that some are digging deeper
than required - all I was asking was to be able to write CDs under DOS 6.22
so perhaps someone may have know of a DOS application to do this
Andrew

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 12:48:15 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 13/02/2018 19:54, Andrew Mawson wrote:
OK wrong forum I know but there are a lot of knowledgeable people on
this forum

I need some software that will run under DOS 6.22 that will allow me to
copy files to a CD/DVD-ROM Drive. This is on a legacy CNC machine - I'm
replacing a dying Viglen PC where the only exchangeable media is 4.5"
Floppy for a Compac DC7600 SFF PC that I have which also has CD/DVD
read / write drive that would be very handy for data exchange.

NB this is running genuine DOS 6.22 NOT a DOS window under Windoze !

Any pointers very welcome !

A quick option would be a copy of laplink and a serial or parallel
transfer cable. Just suck the files off to a laptop etc.

Network card would be another option.

Physically accessing the hard drive on another platform may work, but it
depends a bit on what disk interface it has. IDE/SCSI should be doable
without too much hassle. ST506/ESDI will pose more of a challenge.

Ya think? :-)

--
Johnny B Good

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 20:55:22 GMT, Johnny B Good
wrote:

snip

However, that is pure, best
guess, speculation on my part so we need him to clarify this point before
we can start to consider the virtualisation route.

Virtualisation != KISS.

For a production machine you need KISS.

Cheers, T i m

On 14/02/2018 22:06, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 12:48:15 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 13/02/2018 19:54, Andrew Mawson wrote:
OK wrong forum I know but there are a lot of knowledgeable people on
this forum

I need some software that will run under DOS 6.22 that will allow me to
copy files to a CD/DVD-ROM Drive. This is on a legacy CNC machine - I'm
replacing a dying Viglen PC where the only exchangeable media is 4.5"
Floppy for a Compac DC7600 SFF PC that I have which also has CD/DVD
read / write drive that would be very handy for data exchange.

NB this is running genuine DOS 6.22 NOT a DOS window under Windoze !

Any pointers very welcome !

A quick option would be a copy of laplink and a serial or parallel
transfer cable. Just suck the files off to a laptop etc.

Network card would be another option.

Physically accessing the hard drive on another platform may work, but it
depends a bit on what disk interface it has. IDE/SCSI should be doable
without too much hassle. ST506/ESDI will pose more of a challenge.

Ya think? :-)

Well in fact only ESDI might cause me a problem - I have a stash of 8
and 16bit ST-506 cards (both MFM and RLL) in a "might come in handy" box
somewhere ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 14/02/2018 22:01, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 13:00:05 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 14/02/2018 09:21, Martin Brown wrote:

I am fairly sure that DOS software to write CDs and the even earlier
Panasonic proprietary PD disks was available in the dim and distant
past back when they were expensive SCSI based peripherals. Secondhand
SCSI writers are still available but finding a set of the drivers and
shims to make it all work today on DOS might be something of a
challenge.

Adaptec EasySCSI will provide a set of ASPI drivers...

Getting the network card to behave on the embedded box and then using
network shares might be the least difficult way out. The external PC
can run a modern OS that handles the backup process.

One of the old TCP/IP application stacks for DOS with FTP would probably
be an option. (assuming once loaded there is enough ram left to run the
CNC software ;-) Ah the joys of DOS emm/xms/umb management.

This is what makes virtualisation the winner. If ever there was a case
of a "Solution looking for a problem to solve.", virtualisation is that
"Solution" and Andrew's problem is that very problem virtualisation was
looking to solve. :-)

The only slight gottcha would be if the DOS code needs to bang the
hardware in a particularly unorthodox way, or the code timing is
particularly critical.


Oracle's VirtualBox can be installed on either windows or unix hosts
(free for personal use - I suspect Andrew might have to pay a licence fee
in this commercial usage case though) and although it can benefit from
Intel's VT-x processor feature, it isn't reliant upon its presence which
might be an important consideration in this case.

It also got Day of the Tentacle running nicely on a modern PC ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 14/02/18 17:03, Andrew Mawson wrote:
Now need to see if there is any software that I can load onto the stick
mint thingy to burn CD's - the CD drive isn't showing under devices in
MINT - sure it must be possible but all suggestions welcome


The CD drive wont 'show up' unless it has a disk in it.

Since Mint normally boots to install from CD, the drivers will be there.

The default disk burner is brasero which may well be on the default
installation.

Xfburn is a nice slimoline app too

https://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/1784

is how to make a custom bootable live CD.

But why not install Mint and dual boot the PC anyway?


--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 23:18:59 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 14/02/2018 22:06, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 12:48:15 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 13/02/2018 19:54, Andrew Mawson wrote:
OK wrong forum I know but there are a lot of knowledgeable people on
this forum

I need some software that will run under DOS 6.22 that will allow me
to copy files to a CD/DVD-ROM Drive. This is on a legacy CNC machine
- I'm replacing a dying Viglen PC where the only exchangeable media
is 4.5" Floppy for a Compac DC7600 SFF PC that I have which also has
CD/DVD read / write drive that would be very handy for data exchange.

NB this is running genuine DOS 6.22 NOT a DOS window under Windoze !

Any pointers very welcome !

A quick option would be a copy of laplink and a serial or parallel
transfer cable. Just suck the files off to a laptop etc.

Network card would be another option.

Physically accessing the hard drive on another platform may work, but
it depends a bit on what disk interface it has. IDE/SCSI should be
doable without too much hassle. ST506/ESDI will pose more of a
challenge.

Ya think? :-)

Well in fact only ESDI might cause me a problem - I have a stash of 8
and 16bit ST-506 cards (both MFM and RLL) in a "might come in handy" box
somewhere ;-)

I think I might have a couple of ST-506 cards still stashed away
somewhere and I'm almost certain I've still got the ESDI adapter that was
in a 2nd hand NEC PowerMate II box (along with a 16MB ISA memory
expansion adapter) which had Novell NetWare 3.11 installed on it.

The 300MB full height ESDI drive along with a 2nd similar sized
(physical and capacity) drive added a few months later, both got junked
as soon as I started my endless round of disk upgrades using ever larger
capacity IDE drives over the next decade before I ditched Netware
altogether for a Linux based solution before discovering the joy of
FreeNAS which, for trademark reasons, became renamed "NAS4Free".

I've now downgraded the peak capacity of 17TB to a 'mere' 14TB a couple
of months ago after finally completing an almost two year transcoding
from mpg to mkv project to recover disk space which had allowed me to
pull the ageing 3TB Hitachi Cool Spin 'tiddler' out the JBOD array of 4
seperate disk volumes leaving me with just one 6TB and and a couple of
4TB drives in the box with over 1.5TB of spare disk space, saving me some
3 or 4 watts of consumption. The box and the BackUPS500 energy
consumption now hovers either side of the 50W mark (I don't spin the
disks down to save power, preferring instead to avoid unnecessary
additional stress on both drives and my sanity).

I estimate I've got about another 12 months or so before I'm obliged to
replace one of the 4TB drives with an 8 or 10 TB drive. Hopefully, 8TB
will become the new 'sweet spot' price point by then with 10TB not too
far behind. It's all a far cry from those days when I used to wonder how
the hell I was going to make use of that vast 600MB's worth of disk
storage space. :-)

--
Johnny B Good

On 14/02/2018 11:46, jim wrote:

If the serials are in use Laplink used to use parallel ports?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LapLink_cable

The original laplink cable had both serial and parallel versions - they
did one with three connectors on each end - a DB25 male for parallel,
and DB25 & DB9 female for serial.

The parallel version did faster transfers (defaulting to a nyble wide
data path on a standard parallel port), but the serial version supported
remote install of the software if you did not have it on both computers
to start with.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 15/02/2018 18:18, Huge wrote:
On 2018-02-15, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/02/2018 11:46, jim wrote:

If the serials are in use Laplink used to use parallel ports?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LapLink_cable

The original laplink cable had both serial and parallel versions - they
did one with three connectors on each end - a DB25 male for parallel,
and DB25 & DB9 female for serial.

The parallel version did faster transfers (defaulting to a nyble wide
data path on a standard parallel port),

Really? IIRC (and I may well not) it worked by twiddling the status
lines, because most parallel ports only had unidirectional data lines,
and was therefore slower.

I think he is right. It could do a nibble at a time and on later
machines with bidirectional printer ports it could go pretty fast.

God, I miss all that stuff not at all!

It worked well enough at the time. Networking was expensive then.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 15/02/2018 18:18, Huge wrote:
On 2018-02-15, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/02/2018 11:46, jim wrote:

If the serials are in use Laplink used to use parallel ports?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LapLink_cable

The original laplink cable had both serial and parallel versions - they
did one with three connectors on each end - a DB25 male for parallel,
and DB25 & DB9 female for serial.

The parallel version did faster transfers (defaulting to a nyble wide
data path on a standard parallel port),

Really? IIRC (and I may well not) it worked by twiddling the status
lines, because most parallel ports only had unidirectional data lines,
and was therefore slower.

While there were plenty of output lines available, there were only 5
available inputs (error, ack, paper empty, busy, & Select), so the
parallel cable cross wired those to give 4 data lines, and a strobe in
each direction.

God, I miss all that stuff not at all!

It was pretty cool at the time - you could transfer a whole directory of
files with between machines with incompatible sizes/densities of floppy
disk very easily.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 16/02/2018 01:11, John Rumm wrote:
On 15/02/2018 18:18, Huge wrote:
On 2018-02-15, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/02/2018 11:46, jim wrote:

If the serials are in use* Laplink used to use parallel ports?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LapLink_cable

The original laplink cable had both serial and parallel versions - they
did one with three connectors on each end - a DB25 male for parallel,
and DB25 & DB9 female for serial.

The parallel version did faster transfers (defaulting to a nyble wide
data path on a standard parallel port),

Really? IIRC (and I* may well not) it worked by twiddling the status
lines, because most parallel ports only had unidirectional data lines,
and was therefore slower.

While there were plenty of output lines available, there were only 5
available inputs (error, ack, paper empty, busy, & Select), so the
parallel cable cross wired those to give 4 data lines, and a strobe in
each direction.

God, I miss all that stuff not at all!

It was pretty cool at the time - you could transfer a whole directory of
files with between machines with incompatible sizes/densities of floppy
disk very easily.



I had some that used bidirectional parallel ports and they were much
faster than serial ports.

One of the cards I designed for System X used a serial port running at
880kbits/sec. That was pretty fast at transferring data to a tape drive.
IIRC the same chip was used in quite a few PCs to provide the serial
ports so they had the potential to run very fast.

On 16/02/2018 13:03, dennis@home wrote:
On 16/02/2018 01:11, John Rumm wrote:
On 15/02/2018 18:18, Huge wrote:
On 2018-02-15, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/02/2018 11:46, jim wrote:

If the serials are in use Laplink used to use parallel ports?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LapLink_cable

The original laplink cable had both serial and parallel versions - they
did one with three connectors on each end - a DB25 male for parallel,
and DB25 & DB9 female for serial.

The parallel version did faster transfers (defaulting to a nyble wide
data path on a standard parallel port),

Really? IIRC (and I may well not) it worked by twiddling the status
lines, because most parallel ports only had unidirectional data lines,
and was therefore slower.

While there were plenty of output lines available, there were only 5
available inputs (error, ack, paper empty, busy, & Select), so the
parallel cable cross wired those to give 4 data lines, and a strobe in
each direction.

God, I miss all that stuff not at all!

It was pretty cool at the time - you could transfer a whole directory
of files with between machines with incompatible sizes/densities of
floppy disk very easily.



I had some that used bidirectional parallel ports and they were much
faster than serial ports.

The standard parallel port version of laplink could run about 4 to 5
times faster than the serial version IIRC. The serial one was limited to
115k2

One of the cards I designed for System X used a serial port running at
880kbits/sec. That was pretty fast at transferring data to a tape drive.
IIRC the same chip was used in quite a few PCs to provide the serial
ports so they had the potential to run very fast.

The UARTs themselves are usually somewhat more capable than the system
design would permit. It usually depends on how fast the UART was
clocked. Typically the bit rate would be 16th of the clock rate after
scaling by the UARTs clock divisor. The 8050A UART used in early PCs
could in theory do up to 625Kbps, but that required a 10Mhz clock. The
original PC design had a 1.8432 MHz clock, which gives you a max rate of
of 16th of the clock rate or 115K2.

Later devices like the 16550 with its built in FIFO, could take an
external clock up to 24MHz giving about 1.5Mbps maximum. However the
clock would normally be kept at the standard lower speed to maintain
software compatibility in PC applications.

(I remember working on one project that used a standard 8252A UART (not
dissimilar from the standard PC device - but it could be clocked at
16MHz)) fed from a hardware fifo, and that would reliably encode data at
1Mbps. We used it to encode telemetry data into a live video stream onto
some "spare" video lines. (i.e. same encoding technique as used for
teletext)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/