On Wednesday, 26 April 2017 14:48:15 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
because the pound had fallen inv alue following the Brexit result. The
imported content of many of their products cost more.


What imported content ?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/fo...ed-there..html

Marmite, which was invented by a German scientist called Justus von
Liebig in the late 19th century, has been produced in Burton since 1902..
The town€˜s beer heritage is important: the basic ingredient of the
spread is yeast sludge, a waste product left over from brewing beer, and
there were once 30 breweries in the surrounding area. Now, the raw
materials come from across the UK.

Are you absolutely certain all the raw materials in a jar of Marmite come
from the UK?

I think that was proved such things as yeast and water.....

And are you including any packaging and transport costs? And
the overheads of the company which make it?

they put the cost up of the marmite already sitting one the pallets in their warehouses in the UK. Now un less they are going to the states to fill up the gas tank then driving the lorry back to the UK I see little excuse foir adding the cost of transport.


If the only thing which influenced the retail price was the cost of the
yeast, it would likely sell for tuppence a jar.

and where did the yeast come from which was in the jars at least a month before the BREXIT vote.


What was the reason they stated ?

see above

Everything was from the UK including the water.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...ce-supermarket

However, after both companies€˜ share prices fell on Thursday and
Unilever was criticised for blaming the attempt to increase prices on
the fall in the value of the pound, a deal was reached late in the
afternoon.

Some are eaily fooled into beliving anything aren't they.

You apparently are.

Makes you wonder why they reversed the price rise then doens't it.

On Wednesday, 26 April 2017 16:02:53 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/04/17 15:49, Capitol wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
It's relivent for a consumer if they have to pay the increased price.
Where or not the consumer is fooled by them is another matter. Only the
really stupid were fooled by unilevers claim that the marmite on the
shelves should cost more because it was made before the brexit vote.

Does that apply to petrol and gas, etc? You always pay the price it cost
when it was made?

How about your favourite Apple products?


Petrol and gas are two different cases. Petrol prices are determined
by the current price of oil and a competitive market.

Wrong. Petrol prices are determined by government taxation and fuel duty.

They are fueled by both tax, government and availility of the product.

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:

On 26/04/2017 15:29, Capitol wrote:

Dave repeating your blatant lies will not make them true. Brexit is
happening, get used to the idea and move on.

More bre****.
You delude yourself if you think much will change.
The UK will be worse off and we will still have EU migrants and still
pay into the EU.
But our government will agree to all the regulations, etc. so you get
your sovereignty and all it will cost is any say in the way the EU runs
and lots more cash.

If we pay money into the EU, then we haven't left.

Ah. So that's what bugs you about the EU. Having to pay to be a member of
a club. You really did take what St Nige said as gospel.

--
*My wife has a slight impediment in her speech. She stops to breathe.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:

On 26/04/2017 15:29, Capitol wrote:

Dave repeating your blatant lies will not make them true. Brexit is
happening, get used to the idea and move on.

More bre****.
You delude yourself if you think much will change.
The UK will be worse off and we will still have EU migrants and still
pay into the EU.
But our government will agree to all the regulations, etc. so you get
your sovereignty and all it will cost is any say in the way the EU runs
and lots more cash.

If we pay money into the EU, then we haven't left.

Ah. So that's what bugs you about the EU. Having to pay to be a member of
a club. You really did take what St Nige said as gospel.


Same old Remoaner failed logic.

dennis@home wrote:
On 26/04/2017 15:29, Capitol wrote:

Dave repeating your blatant lies will not make them true. Brexit
is happening, get used to the idea and move on.

More bre****.
You delude yourself if you think much will change.
The UK will be worse off and we will still have EU migrants and still
pay into the EU.
But our government will agree to all the regulations, etc. so you get
your sovereignty and all it will cost is any say in the way the EU runs
and lots more cash.

If I had your perfect Xtal ball, I could remove the UK deficit in a few
weeks!

On 26/04/2017 18:02, Capitol wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
On 26/04/2017 15:29, Capitol wrote:

Dave repeating your blatant lies will not make them true. Brexit
is happening, get used to the idea and move on.

More bre****.
You delude yourself if you think much will change.
The UK will be worse off and we will still have EU migrants and still
pay into the EU.
But our government will agree to all the regulations, etc. so you get
your sovereignty and all it will cost is any say in the way the EU runs
and lots more cash.

If I had your perfect Xtal ball, I could remove the UK deficit in a
few weeks!

Isn't that why you want brexit because your balls have forecast what
will happen?
Shame your balls are broken.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
RJH wrote:
On 25/04/2017 22:45, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Vir
Campestris wrote:

On 25/04/2017 12:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Go on, then. Give us some real world examples.

Two developed countries with no trade agreement at all produce a
similar
thing. Lets say wheat. And it can be freely traded either way.

Since without an agreement there are WTO limited tariffs you have
carefully excluded all possibilities. It's like asking for dry water.

The Remoaner view is that there can be no agreement, and so trade will
be impossible; the Brexiteer that there will be no tariffs. I suggest
the final result will be somewhere in between.

That there will be no tariffs is not my view. I'm just pointing out
that no tariffs is a possibility.


No, you said they're a possibility the UK might choose. You're just
creating vacuous arguments to set out a fundamental position, then
backtracking on the detail. Just say you don't know and stick to your
principles. Others may or may not join the dots for you.

The UK (post Brexit) would be totally mad to allow in all imports
free of tariffs. As that would inevitably decimate what remaining
production we have. We are a high cost country, so can't compete
on price alone with those who have lower production costs.

Furiously 'living' in the past, as always. Britain produces **** all that
can be protected by tariffs anymore and clearly Britain has done fine
with no tariffs or dutys on stuff that moves between Britain and the EU.

And consumers would be a hell of a lot better off if they could
buy food from low cost producers from places like New Zealand
like they used to do before Britain joined the EEC.

Britain produces **** all in the way of consumer goods anymore,
so it makes no sense to have tariffs on stuff like phones and the vast
amount of stuff that is produced in low cost countrys like china now.

And, of course, the same applies to other countries
too. They won't allow in UK products tariff/duty free
if in competition with things they produce locally.

Most of them do, most obviously with the whole ****ing EU.

Hardly any of the ex colonial countrys or the current commonwealth
apply tariffs to what comes from Britain anymore.

Or simply just to generate income for that state.

Hardly anyone operates like that now.

So the only way forward if turning our back totally on the EU

No one who matters is suggesting anything of the sort.

is to form new trade agreements with other countries.

Makes a lot more sense to trade under the WTO rules in the mean time.

Something the leave lot said would be easy to do.

A few of them did, but most of those are so ignorant of the
real world that they don’t even realise that Britain is free to
operate under BY FAR the most comprehensive trade agreement
the world has EVER seen, the WTO without negotiating with
anyone, because that’s all been done, decades ago now and
keeps getting tweaked as required even now.

And that was simply a lie, as with so much else of their dogma.

Like hell it is with the WTO.

dennis@home wrote
Capitol wrote

Dave repeating your blatant lies will not make them true. Brexit is
happening, get used to the idea and move on.

More bre****.
You delude yourself if you think much will change.

Bet it does.

The UK will be worse off

You dont know that.

and we will still have EU migrants

No reason to continue to allow the dregs of the
EU that dont have any skills to show up in Britain.

Its not as if lot of brits want to move to Romania or Poland.

and still pay into the EU.

May aint gunna be that stupid, you watch.

But our government will agree to all the regulations, etc.

Even sillier than you usually manage.

so you get your sovereignty

Yep.

and all it will cost is any say in the way the EU runs

Yes, but who cares when Britain is no longer part of that.

and lots more cash.

Just more remoaner lies.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 25 April 2017 20:17:17 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 25 April 2017 16:45:01 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 April 2017 12:54:21 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
Sadly, it seems to be a standard Brexiteer response to any
points
brought up about us leaving the EU. Basically non of the usual
tariffs
and duties etc will apply.

More lies. There are no "usual tariffs and duties". Only the
ones
we
*choose* to apply.

Go on, then. Give us some real world examples.

What happened with marmite that shot up in price as brexit was
announced.

You actually think that was due to a tariff or duty?
Would that be because we'd already left the EU?

Why did they increase the cost of marmite at that time ?

What was the reason they stated ?

What they state is completely irrelevant.

No it isn't if they are blaming BREXIT.

It was always an obvious lie that only the most stupid would
buy given that the price of the generic equivalent didnt change.

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Vir Campestris wrote:
On 25/04/2017 12:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Go on, then. Give us some real world examples.

Two developed countries with no trade agreement at all produce a similar
thing. Lets say wheat. And it can be freely traded either way.

Since without an agreement there are WTO limited tariffs you have
carefully excluded all possibilities. It's like asking for dry water.

I'm trying to get some sense from the likes of TS

The Remoaner view is that there can be no agreement,

Where on earth did you get that idea from? Of course there can be an
agreement. But not the one sided one the Brexiteers seem to demand.
As a Brexiteer I'm not "demanding" any agreement. On the contrary I am
quite happy to tell the EU to f*** off and we'll trade on WTO terms if
that's what they want. Balls in their court.

It's the remoaners who want agreements for this that and everything
else. I don't think they've ever negotiated anything in their lives.
Probably even pay the asking price for a second hand car.

and so trade will
be impossible; the Brexiteer that there will be no tariffs. I suggest
the final result will be somewhere in between.

Unless those with a death wish get their way.


--
bert

dennis@home wrote:
On 26/04/2017 18:02, Capitol wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
On 26/04/2017 15:29, Capitol wrote:

Dave repeating your blatant lies will not make them true. Brexit
is happening, get used to the idea and move on.

More bre****.
You delude yourself if you think much will change.
The UK will be worse off and we will still have EU migrants and still
pay into the EU.
But our government will agree to all the regulations, etc. so you get
your sovereignty and all it will cost is any say in the way the EU runs
and lots more cash.

If I had your perfect Xtal ball, I could remove the UK deficit in
a few weeks!

Isn't that why you want brexit because your balls have forecast what
will happen?
Shame your balls are broken.


Well, I have the balls to vote Leave, obviously you haven't.

On 26/04/2017 22:50, Capitol wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
On 26/04/2017 18:02, Capitol wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
On 26/04/2017 15:29, Capitol wrote:

Dave repeating your blatant lies will not make them true. Brexit
is happening, get used to the idea and move on.

More bre****.
You delude yourself if you think much will change.
The UK will be worse off and we will still have EU migrants and still
pay into the EU.
But our government will agree to all the regulations, etc. so you get
your sovereignty and all it will cost is any say in the way the EU runs
and lots more cash.

If I had your perfect Xtal ball, I could remove the UK deficit in
a few weeks!

Isn't that why you want brexit because your balls have forecast what
will happen?
Shame your balls are broken.


Well, I have the balls to vote Leave, obviously you haven't.

Idiots make mistakes as well as experts.

On Wednesday, 26 April 2017 18:19:05 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 26/04/2017 18:02, Capitol wrote:

Isn't that why you want brexit because your balls have forecast what
will happen?
Shame your balls are broken.

He says he only has one ball.

I know a song about that.

On Tuesday, 25 April 2017 20:17:17 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message


Why did they increase the cost of marmite at that time ?

What was the reason they stated ?

What they state is completely irrelevant.

Because the remoaners use what they did as evidence that BREXIT is wrong.

whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
whisky-dave wrote

Why did they increase the cost of marmite at that time ?

What was the reason they stated ?

What they state is completely irrelevant.

Because the remoaners use what they
did as evidence that BREXIT is wrong.

And got ****ed on from a great height when they tried that.

"Capitol" wrote in message
o.uk...
tim... wrote:




UK tariffs are down to the UK.

agreed

We can apply any tariff we like within the WTO rules to any cou7ntry we
like. So, tax EU lamb, but not New Zealand lamb.

No we can't, that's the point

we tax all lamb or no lamb, you cannot pick and choose where it comes from
when applying tariffs

tim

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
RJH wrote:
On 24/04/2017 12:46, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
There are no tariffs on stuff we import from the EU.

Of course not. We are still in the EU. It's what the UK government
does
after leaving that is the point.

If the EU slaps a tariff on say Jaguar after we've left, do you
really
think the UK won't on BMW? (Just an example for those who can't
think
for themselves)

They might well. But in whose interest would that be?

You tell me. You are one of those who wanted to leave our free trade
area.
And not having a trade agreement inevitably results in tariffs or duty
etc.

No it doesn't.


You know you're being disingenuous/trolling there. Hypothetically,
you're right - an aggressive militarised superpower might not. But in
reality it will result in a cost, paid either as a duty, tariff, barter
or subscription.

Sadly, it seems to be a standard Brexiteer response to any points brought
up about us leaving the EU. Basically non of the usual tariffs and duties
etc will apply. Such is their brave new world.

the problem is that there are two different points here

Most leavers who say that "tariffs are optional" are usually responding to
the otf claimed nonsense in the press, that leaving the EU will impose
tariffs that WILL put up prices for UK consumers, when that is a complete
falsehood.

That the effect of the EU imposing tariffs on our exports to them may make
trade more difficult is not within the scope of that question and you cannot
extrapolate the answer to the first as the answer to the second.

((I'll grant you that there are a set of people who don't know the
difference, but I can't say that I've noticed any here)

tim

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"tim..." wrote in message
news


"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , TimW
wrote:

On 22/04/17 15:27, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , TimW
wrote:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9-A5RRXcAA0ea9.jpg

I'm still waiting for someone to explain why there would be
tariffs.

The single market is a a tarriff-free zone

And tariffs on imports, even if we went WTO, would be under our
control. You seem to have bought into the lie that being WTO would
*automatically* mean tariffs.

Can you really see this country allowing in all imports with no tariffs
at
all?

More ****-stirring and making things up, I see. Did I say anything
about "all imports"? No.

From countries which will have imposed a tariff on our exports?

So if they impose tariffs, our tariffs would automatically spring into
life? You're just spouting more Remoaner bull****.


The problem with that line is there's more than one of "them"

We cannot remove tariffs from imports from the EU without also removing
tariffs from imports (of the same thing) from the USA or China (you can
replace remove with impose in that sentence to get the contra view)

How do we balance this trick if the EU wants to impose tariffs on us, but
the US doesn't? (for the purpose of the discussion, just pretend that
might happen)

Why can the EU selectively impose a tariff on stuff
from Britain,

It won't be (doing it selectively)

In the absence of a Trade Deal it will simply apply the already in existence
EU External Tariff to UK imports, as it does to every other non-EU country

tim

On 28/04/2017 11:15, tim... wrote:

In the absence of a Trade Deal it will simply apply the already in
existence EU External Tariff to UK imports, as it does to every other
non-EU country

The brexteers don't appear to understand that without a trade deal with
the EU there will be tariffs.
They are already there and will apply.

So May will want a deal and that deal will come with the same sort of
conditions that we already have as a member of the EU.
The only difference is that we will have no say in what the EU does.

The brexiteers are full of brex****.

On Friday, 28 April 2017 10:59:14 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"Capitol" wrote in message
o.uk...
tim... wrote:




UK tariffs are down to the UK.

agreed

We can apply any tariff we like within the WTO rules to any cou7ntry we
like. So, tax EU lamb, but not New Zealand lamb.

No we can't, that's the point

we tax all lamb or no lamb, you cannot pick and choose where it comes from
when applying tariffs

tim

Yes you can that's the whole idea behind tarrifs, totherwiose why have them.

tim... wrote:


"Capitol" wrote in message
o.uk...
tim... wrote:




UK tariffs are down to the UK.

agreed

We can apply any tariff we like within the WTO rules to any cou7ntry
we like. So, tax EU lamb, but not New Zealand lamb.

No we can't, that's the point

we tax all lamb or no lamb, you cannot pick and choose where it comes
from when applying tariffs

tim






False!

dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2017 11:15, tim... wrote:

In the absence of a Trade Deal it will simply apply the already in
existence EU External Tariff to UK imports, as it does to every other
non-EU country

The brexteers don't appear to understand that without a trade deal with
the EU there will be tariffs.
They are already there and will apply.

So May will want a deal and that deal will come with the same sort of
conditions that we already have as a member of the EU.
The only difference is that we will have no say in what the EU does.

The brexiteers are full of brex****.


Still Remoaning Denise?

On Friday, 28 April 2017 12:55:31 UTC+1, Capitol wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2017 11:15, tim... wrote:

In the absence of a Trade Deal it will simply apply the already in
existence EU External Tariff to UK imports, as it does to every other
non-EU country

The brexteers don't appear to understand that without a trade deal with
the EU there will be tariffs.
They are already there and will apply.

So May will want a deal and that deal will come with the same sort of
conditions that we already have as a member of the EU.
The only difference is that we will have no say in what the EU does.

The brexiteers are full of brex****.


Still Remoaning Denise?

Maybe he's one of the new Remoaners, a Re-Remoaner a bit like a boomerang but with less uses.

On 28/04/17 10:58, tim... wrote:


"Capitol" wrote in message
o.uk...
tim... wrote:




UK tariffs are down to the UK.

agreed

We can apply any tariff we like within the WTO rules to any cou7ntry
we like. So, tax EU lamb, but not New Zealand lamb.

No we can't, that's the point

we tax all lamb or no lamb, you cannot pick and choose where it comes
from when applying tariffs

Oh dear oh dear oh dear

Your ignorance is showing again

No wonder you voted to stay in the EU...


tim







--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 28/04/2017 11:15, tim... wrote:

In the absence of a Trade Deal it will simply apply the already in
existence EU External Tariff to UK imports, as it does to every other
non-EU country

The brexteers don't appear to understand that without a trade deal with
the EU there will be tariffs.

No, we do understand that

that is why we need/want to arrange a trade deal

what we can't understand is why the other side (pretends it) isn't so minded
because it too could suffer the imposition of tariffs on its trading with
us.

They are already there and will apply.

Of course.

So May will want a deal and that deal will come with the same sort of
conditions that we already have as a member of the EU.

No it wont

the EU has agreed a deal with Canada, a much smaller market than us (and
that's at full potential, there is presumably not anywhere near as much
established trade)

that didn't come with requirements for freedoms of movement or "pay to
trade".

there is simply no precedence for trade deals to include these things (in
fact the latter is specifically forbidden).

The only difference is that we will have no say in what the EU does.

who cares, we wont be in it.

As for us having no say in its requirements for the products that we can
trade with the EU.,
we don't have a say in the requirements for the products that we trade with
the USA. No-one see that as an earth shattering problem.
we don't have a say in the requirements for the products that we trade with
Australia. No-one see that as an earth shattering problem.
we don't have a say in the requirements for the products that we trade with
South Africa. No-one see that as an earth shattering problem.

etc etc

The brexiteers are full of brex****.

No Remoaners just don't understand

tim

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 28 April 2017 10:59:14 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"Capitol" wrote in message
o.uk...
tim... wrote:




UK tariffs are down to the UK.

agreed

We can apply any tariff we like within the WTO rules to any cou7ntry we
like. So, tax EU lamb, but not New Zealand lamb.

No we can't, that's the point

we tax all lamb or no lamb, you cannot pick and choose where it comes
from
when applying tariffs

tim

Yes you can that's the whole idea behind tarrifs,

no it's not

totherwiose why have them.

to apply then unilaterally to all imports (of that product) to protect a
home production

not to apply then discriminatorily for geo-political point scoring

tim

"Capitol" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:


"Capitol" wrote in message
o.uk...
tim... wrote:




UK tariffs are down to the UK.

agreed

We can apply any tariff we like within the WTO rules to any cou7ntry
we like. So, tax EU lamb, but not New Zealand lamb.

No we can't, that's the point

we tax all lamb or no lamb, you cannot pick and choose where it comes
from when applying tariffs

tim






False!

it's not

tim

In article ,
tim... wrote:
up about us leaving the EU. Basically non of the usual tariffs and
duties etc will apply. Such is their brave new world.

the problem is that there are two different points here

Most leavers who say that "tariffs are optional" are usually responding
to the otf claimed nonsense in the press, that leaving the EU will
impose tariffs that WILL put up prices for UK consumers, when that is a
complete falsehood.

All you can do is think about the most likely scenario. If anyone thinks
the non EU UK will allow in all imports regardless tariff free, they are
totally mad. That would decimate our agricultural industry in short order.
And pretty well all others too. Because the likelihood is other countries
will put tariffs on our goods regardless of what we do. In the absence of
any trade agreement, other than WTO.

That the effect of the EU imposing tariffs on our exports to them may
make trade more difficult is not within the scope of that question and
you cannot extrapolate the answer to the first as the answer to the
second.

((I'll grant you that there are a set of people who don't know the
difference, but I can't say that I've noticed any here)

--
*I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
tim... wrote:
The brexteers don't appear to understand that without a trade deal
with the EU there will be tariffs.

No, we do understand that

that is why we need/want to arrange a trade deal

But we already had one. Which 'we' didn't like, so left the EU.

what we can't understand is why the other side (pretends it) isn't so
minded because it too could suffer the imposition of tariffs on its
trading with us.

You are hoping the EU will negotiate a special deal with the UK - far
better than any it already has with non EU members? Good luck with that.

--
*I'm reading a book about anti-gravity. I just can't put it down.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Friday, 28 April 2017 15:14:45 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tim... wrote:
The brexteers don't appear to understand that without a trade deal
with the EU there will be tariffs.

No, we do understand that

that is why we need/want to arrange a trade deal

But we already had one. Which 'we' didn't like, so left the EU.

what we can't understand is why the other side (pretends it) isn't so
minded because it too could suffer the imposition of tariffs on its
trading with us.

You are hoping the EU will negotiate a special deal with the UK - far
better than any it already has with non EU members? Good luck with that.

How do you know that the deal we had was the best ?
We know there were NO negotiators from the UK in fact the majority were German , so how can you be so sure we can't get a better deal ?
Do you have any idea what the actuyal deals we have at the moment are ?

It could be that Germany is like Jimmy Saville telling a boy or a girl, well if you want to listen to the best music only I play that so we need to make a specail deal between us and you'll never get a better deal anywhere else.

So wothout knowing what the current deal is how can yuo decide that we can't get a better one or the same one with less strings attached.

On Friday, 28 April 2017 15:14:45 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tim... wrote:
up about us leaving the EU. Basically non of the usual tariffs and
duties etc will apply. Such is their brave new world.

the problem is that there are two different points here

Most leavers who say that "tariffs are optional" are usually responding
to the otf claimed nonsense in the press, that leaving the EU will
impose tariffs that WILL put up prices for UK consumers, when that is a
complete falsehood.

All you can do is think about the most likely scenario. If anyone thinks
the non EU UK will allow in all imports regardless tariff free, they are
totally mad.

Of course they are if they think EU citizens will accept massive increases in say the cost of whisky or cheddar cheese.
I doubt those in the UK will be very happy if the UK puts a tarrif on say brie or german cars, but if we do who is likely to loose out most.
Germany because the taffir is 50% and no one in the UK (or very few) will buy a gernan car at twice the price it was last week, who will lose out...
It'll be Germany NOT the UK as anyoen wantint to buy a car might go for a non german car that has lower tarriffs or a car made in the UK.
I douubt those considering a car will give up driving or start walking or using public transport.

Also considering that most say we don't export much at all anyway, why should we worry about tarrifs ?

That would decimate our agricultural industry in short order.
Why ?

And pretty well all others too. Because the likelihood is other countries
will put tariffs on our goods regardless of what we do. In the absence of
any trade agreement, other than WTO.

So what if tarrifs are put on our goods ?

If you do understand this how about some examples.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 28 April 2017 15:14:45 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , tim...
wrote:
up about us leaving the EU. Basically non of the usual tariffs and
duties etc will apply. Such is their brave new world.

the problem is that there are two different points here

Most leavers who say that "tariffs are optional" are usually
responding to the otf claimed nonsense in the press, that leaving the
EU will impose tariffs that WILL put up prices for UK consumers, when
that is a complete falsehood.

All you can do is think about the most likely scenario. If anyone
thinks the non EU UK will allow in all imports regardless tariff free,
they are totally mad.

Of course they are if they think EU citizens will accept massive
increases in say the cost of whisky or cheddar cheese. I doubt those in
the UK will be very happy if the UK puts a tarrif on say brie or german
cars, but if we do who is likely to loose out most. Germany because the
taffir is 50% and no one in the UK (or very few) will buy a gernan car at
twice the price it was last week, who will lose out... It'll be Germany
NOT the UK as anyoen wantint to buy a car might go for a non german car
that has lower tarriffs

It would be an EU tariff - not exclusively German - and as has been pointed
out earlier it would be a identical tariff on all imported cars unless we
had special agreement with the EU.





--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On Friday, 28 April 2017 16:51:50 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 28 April 2017 15:14:45 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , tim...
wrote:
up about us leaving the EU. Basically non of the usual tariffs and
duties etc will apply. Such is their brave new world.

the problem is that there are two different points here

Most leavers who say that "tariffs are optional" are usually
responding to the otf claimed nonsense in the press, that leaving the
EU will impose tariffs that WILL put up prices for UK consumers, when
that is a complete falsehood.

All you can do is think about the most likely scenario. If anyone
thinks the non EU UK will allow in all imports regardless tariff free,
they are totally mad.

Of course they are if they think EU citizens will accept massive
increases in say the cost of whisky or cheddar cheese. I doubt those in
the UK will be very happy if the UK puts a tarrif on say brie or german
cars, but if we do who is likely to loose out most. Germany because the
taffir is 50% and no one in the UK (or very few) will buy a gernan car at
twice the price it was last week, who will lose out... It'll be Germany
NOT the UK as anyoen wantint to buy a car might go for a non german car
that has lower tarriffs

It would be an EU tariff - not exclusively German - and as has been pointed
out earlier it would be a identical tariff on all imported cars unless we
had special agreement with the EU.

So what would be the advantage for the EU to put tarriffs on anything. ?

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 28 April 2017 16:51:50 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 28 April 2017 15:14:45 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , tim...
wrote:
up about us leaving the EU. Basically non of the usual tariffs
and duties etc will apply. Such is their brave new world.

the problem is that there are two different points here

Most leavers who say that "tariffs are optional" are usually
responding to the otf claimed nonsense in the press, that leaving
the EU will impose tariffs that WILL put up prices for UK
consumers, when that is a complete falsehood.

All you can do is think about the most likely scenario. If anyone
thinks the non EU UK will allow in all imports regardless tariff
free, they are totally mad.

Of course they are if they think EU citizens will accept massive
increases in say the cost of whisky or cheddar cheese. I doubt those
in the UK will be very happy if the UK puts a tarrif on say brie or
german cars, but if we do who is likely to loose out most. Germany
because the taffir is 50% and no one in the UK (or very few) will buy
a gernan car at twice the price it was last week, who will lose
out... It'll be Germany NOT the UK as anyoen wantint to buy a car
might go for a non german car that has lower tarriffs

It would be an EU tariff - not exclusively German - and as has been
pointed out earlier it would be a identical tariff on all imported cars
unless we had special agreement with the EU.

So what would be the advantage for the EU to put tarriffs on anything. ?


you misunderstand. It is the UK which would impose thn tariff - but they
couldn't just do it on German cars - it would apply to all cars from the EU
(France, Italy & Spain immdiately spring to mind) and could well apply to
all cars from whereever.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 28/04/2017 12:25, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 28 April 2017 10:59:14 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"Capitol" wrote in message
o.uk...
tim... wrote:




UK tariffs are down to the UK.

agreed

We can apply any tariff we like within the WTO rules to any cou7ntry we
like. So, tax EU lamb, but not New Zealand lamb.

No we can't, that's the point

we tax all lamb or no lamb, you cannot pick and choose where it comes from
when applying tariffs

tim

Yes you can that's the whole idea behind tarrifs, totherwiose why have them.


Not with WTO rules you can't.

On 28/04/2017 16:38, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 28 April 2017 15:14:45 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , tim...
wrote:
up about us leaving the EU. Basically non of the usual tariffs
and duties etc will apply. Such is their brave new world.

the problem is that there are two different points here

Most leavers who say that "tariffs are optional" are usually
responding to the otf claimed nonsense in the press, that leaving
the EU will impose tariffs that WILL put up prices for UK
consumers, when that is a complete falsehood.

All you can do is think about the most likely scenario. If anyone
thinks the non EU UK will allow in all imports regardless tariff
free, they are totally mad.

Of course they are if they think EU citizens will accept massive
increases in say the cost of whisky or cheddar cheese. I doubt those
in the UK will be very happy if the UK puts a tarrif on say brie or
german cars, but if we do who is likely to loose out most. Germany
because the taffir is 50% and no one in the UK (or very few) will buy
a gernan car at twice the price it was last week, who will lose
out... It'll be Germany NOT the UK as anyoen wantint to buy a car
might go for a non german car that has lower tarriffs or a car made
in the UK. I douubt those considering a car will give up driving or
start walking or using public transport

Also considering that most say we don't export much at all anyway,
why should we worry about tarrifs ?

Suppose the EU puts a 5% tariff on jet engines how long would it be
before all the Airbus planes were ordered with prat and whitney engines?

Suppose the EU put a 10% tariff on aeroplane wings how long do you think
it would take to move wing production to France?

Suppose the EU put a 10% tariff on cars how long do you think it would
take for the Japanese car makers to move production of all the export
models to another EU country?

Do you really think the EU would worry if we put a 10% tariff on cars we
import?


That would decimate our agricultural industry in short order.
Why ?

And pretty well all others too. Because the likelihood is other
countries will put tariffs on our goods regardless of what we do.
In the absence of any trade agreement, other than WTO.

So what if tarrifs are put on our goods ?

If you do understand this how about some examples.

Everything that has been said is about others putting tariffs on our
goods or don't you get it?

On 28/04/2017 15:13, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tim... wrote:
The brexteers don't appear to understand that without a trade deal
with the EU there will be tariffs.

No, we do understand that

that is why we need/want to arrange a trade deal

But we already had one. Which 'we' didn't like, so left the EU.

what we can't understand is why the other side (pretends it) isn't so
minded because it too could suffer the imposition of tariffs on its
trading with us.

You are hoping the EU will negotiate a special deal with the UK - far
better than any it already has with non EU members? Good luck with that.


They actually want one that is better than EU members.

In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2017 16:38, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 28 April 2017 15:14:45 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , tim...
wrote:
up about us leaving the EU. Basically non of the usual tariffs
and duties etc will apply. Such is their brave new world.

the problem is that there are two different points here

Most leavers who say that "tariffs are optional" are usually
responding to the otf claimed nonsense in the press, that leaving
the EU will impose tariffs that WILL put up prices for UK
consumers, when that is a complete falsehood.

All you can do is think about the most likely scenario. If anyone
thinks the non EU UK will allow in all imports regardless tariff
free, they are totally mad.

Of course they are if they think EU citizens will accept massive
increases in say the cost of whisky or cheddar cheese. I doubt those
in the UK will be very happy if the UK puts a tarrif on say brie or
german cars, but if we do who is likely to loose out most. Germany
because the taffir is 50% and no one in the UK (or very few) will buy
a gernan car at twice the price it was last week, who will lose
out... It'll be Germany NOT the UK as anyoen wantint to buy a car
might go for a non german car that has lower tarriffs or a car made
in the UK. I douubt those considering a car will give up driving or
start walking or using public transport

Also considering that most say we don't export much at all anyway,
why should we worry about tarrifs ?

Suppose the EU puts a 5% tariff on jet engines how long would it be
before all the Airbus planes were ordered with prat and whitney engines?

wouldn't the same tariff apply to them? Or have theya factory in Europe?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

charles wrote:

dennis wrote:

Suppose the EU puts a 5% tariff on jet engines how long would it be
before all the Airbus planes were ordered with prat and whitney engines?

wouldn't the same tariff apply to them? Or have they a factory in Europe?

They have one in canada, so maybe CETA will cover them? Though it
wouldn't surprise me if jet engines were excluded for 'protectionist'
reasons ...

On 28/04/2017 18:29, charles wrote:
In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
On 28/04/2017 16:38, whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 28 April 2017 15:14:45 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , tim...
wrote:
up about us leaving the EU. Basically non of the usual tariffs
and duties etc will apply. Such is their brave new world.

the problem is that there are two different points here

Most leavers who say that "tariffs are optional" are usually
responding to the otf claimed nonsense in the press, that leaving
the EU will impose tariffs that WILL put up prices for UK
consumers, when that is a complete falsehood.

All you can do is think about the most likely scenario. If anyone
thinks the non EU UK will allow in all imports regardless tariff
free, they are totally mad.

Of course they are if they think EU citizens will accept massive
increases in say the cost of whisky or cheddar cheese. I doubt those
in the UK will be very happy if the UK puts a tarrif on say brie or
german cars, but if we do who is likely to loose out most. Germany
because the taffir is 50% and no one in the UK (or very few) will buy
a gernan car at twice the price it was last week, who will lose
out... It'll be Germany NOT the UK as anyoen wantint to buy a car
might go for a non german car that has lower tarriffs or a car made
in the UK. I douubt those considering a car will give up driving or
start walking or using public transport

Also considering that most say we don't export much at all anyway,
why should we worry about tarrifs ?

Suppose the EU puts a 5% tariff on jet engines how long would it be
before all the Airbus planes were ordered with prat and whitney engines?

wouldn't the same tariff apply to them? Or have theya factory in Europe?


Rolls Royce would have pretty soon.
Which is the point, many companies are in the UK because of the free
trade area which is why May will do anything to stay in the free trade area.