Just had Indesit/Hotpoint engineer to mend a 6-month-old fridge freezer
that had stopped working.

He checked that it did work if power connected directly to compressor,
and then advised me that it wasn't designed to work if ambient temp
10oC, adding "But they don't tell you that when buying"!

Considering the target temp for a freezer is -18oC, it seems an odd
deign point, even though this one is in a garage whose ambient temp was
around 5oc.

He said he would order a new freezer thermostat (as "it didn't seem to
be working properly") and return to replace it.

[The previous fridge/freezer had been working for years in same
garage.]
--
/\/\aurice
(Replace "nomail.afraid" by "bcs" to reply by email)

Maurice wrote:
Just had Indesit/Hotpoint engineer to mend a 6-month-old fridge freezer
that had stopped working.

He checked that it did work if power connected directly to compressor,
and then advised me that it wasn't designed to work if ambient temp
10oC, adding "But they don't tell you that when buying"!

Considering the target temp for a freezer is -18oC, it seems an odd
deign point, even though this one is in a garage whose ambient temp was
around 5oc.

He said he would order a new freezer thermostat (as "it didn't seem to
be working properly") and return to replace it.

[The previous fridge/freezer had been working for years in same
garage.]

Quite normal and widely known since they started compromising on the
design of fridge freezers and fitting single compressors.

"Maurice" wrote in message
news
Just had Indesit/Hotpoint engineer to mend a 6-month-old fridge freezer
that had stopped working.

He checked that it did work if power connected directly to compressor,
and then advised me that it wasn't designed to work if ambient temp
10oC, adding "But they don't tell you that when buying"!

Considering the target temp for a freezer is -18oC, it seems an odd
deign point, even though this one is in a garage whose ambient temp was
around 5oc.

Yes a lot of modern fridges and freezers are designed to be used in a room
at around 15-25 deg C, and are not suitable for use in an unheated
shed/garage. I think it's a different refrigerant that is not a CFC - maybe
ammonia. My wife lost a lot of meat when she discovered that the contents of
her freezer were thawing out from the freezer in the shed, even though the
ambient temp at the time was about 5 deg C. She'd only known me a few weeks
and she made a frantic phone call to my mum (her own mum and her sisters and
friends were all out when she tried them) to say "help - what do I do?".
Mum's advice: throw away the meat, just in case; thaw out all the fruit,
boil it for a while to sterilise any bugs and then re-freeze it. This was
for fruit that was semi-frozen. If it had been thoroughly thawed it could
have been like that for ages, so wouldn't have been worth the risk.

When she bought another freezer, we chose one by Beko which was certified
for ambient temps down to about -15. It lives in the house, along with
others that are not suitable for low temps, but can be moved into the shed
if we need the space in the pantry for something else.

On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 13:26:10 +0000 (UTC), Maurice
wrote:

Just had Indesit/Hotpoint engineer to mend a 6-month-old fridge freezer
that had stopped working.

He checked that it did work if power connected directly to compressor,
and then advised me that it wasn't designed to work if ambient temp
10oC, adding "But they don't tell you that when buying"!

Considering the target temp for a freezer is -18oC, it seems an odd
deign point, even though this one is in a garage whose ambient temp was
around 5oc.

He said he would order a new freezer thermostat (as "it didn't seem to
be working properly") and return to replace it.

[The previous fridge/freezer had been working for years in same
garage.]

Fridges and freezers have a climate class which specifies the
acceptable temperature range. But most only go down to 10 degrees C
ambient.

I used to have an old chest freezer in an outbuilding in the 1980s,
and that worked fine even in winter, but perhaps things have changed
since then.

In article ,
Caecilius writes:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 13:26:10 +0000 (UTC), Maurice
wrote:

Just had Indesit/Hotpoint engineer to mend a 6-month-old fridge freezer
that had stopped working.

He checked that it did work if power connected directly to compressor,
and then advised me that it wasn't designed to work if ambient temp
10oC, adding "But they don't tell you that when buying"!

Considering the target temp for a freezer is -18oC, it seems an odd
deign point, even though this one is in a garage whose ambient temp was
around 5oc.

He said he would order a new freezer thermostat (as "it didn't seem to
be working properly") and return to replace it.

[The previous fridge/freezer had been working for years in same
garage.]

Fridges and freezers have a climate class which specifies the
acceptable temperature range. But most only go down to 10 degrees C
ambient.

Having looked around recently, most new ones nowadays only go down
to 16C.

I used to have an old chest freezer in an outbuilding in the 1980s,
and that worked fine even in winter, but perhaps things have changed
since then.

It's slight less of an issue for a single fridge or freezer, than
it is for a combined fridge/freezer.

I bought one a year ago. In the instructions, it shows you can get
different varients of it for different temperature ranges, but in
practice, only one of the ranges was imported to the UK.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
news
Maurice wrote:
Just had Indesit/Hotpoint engineer to mend a 6-month-old fridge freezer
that had stopped working.

He checked that it did work if power connected directly to compressor,
and then advised me that it wasn't designed to work if ambient temp
10oC, adding "But they don't tell you that when buying"!

Considering the target temp for a freezer is -18oC, it seems an odd
deign point, even though this one is in a garage whose ambient temp was
around 5oc.

He said he would order a new freezer thermostat (as "it didn't seem to
be working properly") and return to replace it.

[The previous fridge/freezer had been working for years in same
garage.]

Quite normal and widely known since they started compromising on the
design of fridge freezers and fitting single compressors.

Maybe widely know in the trade, but I doubt whether many lay people would be
aware of it. Given that for years people have kept chest freezers in an
outhouse/garage, you tend to think that all freezers are capable of
withstanding below freezing temperatures. You'd think that higher than
normal temps (eg during a heatwave) might stress the parts more heavily in
that the compressor would have to work for longer with fewer breaks once the
freezer is cold enough.

I remember for years my parents kept their freezer in an unheated
conservatory (ie it only got heat from the adjacent kitchen). Twice a year
we'd have the moving-of-the-freezer ceremony, to move it to the garage in
summer when the conservatory got very hot and then back to the conservatory
in winter - but the winter move was more because that's when it was more of
a chore to go out into the cold and rain to walk right round to the garage,
rather than because we thought the freezer wouldn't work "outside" in
winter. This was in the 1970s and 80s, so the freezer may well have been
winter-proof anyway.

When my wife mentioned the problem to her dad who is an electrician and
therefore used to electrical appliances, even he didn't know about it. Maybe
he'd never checked the specs of new freezers that he'd installed for
customers when he'd had to install power to a shed etc.


Now you mention it, I think it's mostly a problem with combined
fridge/freezers rather than freezers with no fridge. Quite why a single
compressor would be a problem, I don't know, unless the changeover valve to
direct coolant to fridge/freezer/fridge-and-freezer and/or the thermostats
can't cope with cold temps.

It does seem perverse, until you investigate the root cause, that a device
designed to keep the interior down to -18 deg C can't cope when the outside
temp is almost as cold as that sort of temp :-)

I did hear someone suggest that if you have such a device, you should take
the produce out and put the baskets in the outhouse at ambient temp, and
turn the freezer off, when the outside temp gets very cold :-) Sadly
there's a band of temp between freezer temp (-18) and the coldest that the
device can withstand (maybe -5 deg C), so food may well not be frozen as
deeply as if needs to last for several months.


I've just remembered that we had problems at our holiday cottage which is
heated in winter only to frost-free temperatures, and the fridge/freezer is
in a lean-to building which also houses the boiler, but with no radiator so
is only heated by "escaped" heat from the boiler and through the door from
the heated kitchen into the lean-to. We'd spent Christmas there, so the
house had been heated, and we left some extra things in the freezer, meaning
to go back and take them home when we went back later in January, because we
couldn't fit everything in the cool-box in the car. When we went back a few
weeks after Christmas, when temps had probably been around -5 to 0 deg C, we
found that the contents of the freezer were a bit soft, so we had to ditch
the meat/fish (including a whole salmon that we'd bought at very cheap
pre-Christmas prices) just in case, but other things were OK once we managed
to persuade the freezer to start cooling properly - by leaving open the
inside door between the kitchen and freezer room :-)

It's now part of our "winterising the cottage" checklist: leave the inside
door open if leaving the fridge/freezer on, so the room stays at frost-free
temp. Putting the fridge/freezer in the kitchen is not an option because the
kitchen is titchy and has no room for a full-height appliance. Hence it is
kept in the new brick porch and utility room that is outside what was
originally the outside door of the cottage leading into the kitchen.


I'd say that if a freezer can't be used outside or in an unheated house, it
needs a VERY prominent warning both on the appliance and in the sales
literature, and all salesmen need to be trained to check suitability with
the customer. Such appliances are *almost* into chocolate teapot territory
of unsuitability for purpose :-)

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
news
Having looked around recently, most new ones nowadays only go down
to 16C.

16 C really is well into chocolate teapot territory, since you may well let
the temperature get lower than that if you go away on holiday in the winter.
It seems daft to have to heat an uninhabited house to 16 deg, when anything
above about 5 deg is fine to prevent pipes freezing, simply for the sake of
keeping the freezer happy.

As an aside, I was surprised when we went away on holiday for three weeks
over Christmas, and the outside temp got down to around freezing some of the
time, that the inside temp never got down as low as the 14 deg that we'd set
the thermostat at, so the heating never came on. That was just due to heat
of the sun and heat from houses either side in the terrace. We have a
weather station which uploads inside and outside temps to the web, so it was
weird to be able to keep an eye on things back home when we were on a cruise
liner in temps that never went below about 30 deg C outside.

On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 14:04:17 +0000, Caecilius
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 13:26:10 +0000 (UTC), Maurice
wrote:

Just had Indesit/Hotpoint engineer to mend a 6-month-old fridge freezer
that had stopped working.

He checked that it did work if power connected directly to compressor,
and then advised me that it wasn't designed to work if ambient temp
10oC, adding "But they don't tell you that when buying"!

Considering the target temp for a freezer is -18oC, it seems an odd
deign point, even though this one is in a garage whose ambient temp was
around 5oc.

He said he would order a new freezer thermostat (as "it didn't seem to
be working properly") and return to replace it.

[The previous fridge/freezer had been working for years in same
garage.]

Fridges and freezers have a climate class which specifies the
acceptable temperature range. But most only go down to 10 degrees C
ambient.

I used to have an old chest freezer in an outbuilding in the 1980s,
and that worked fine even in winter, but perhaps things have changed
since then.

Mind does not cope with low temperatures (indoors) in the winter.
There is a special switch though that leaves the internal light on all
the time, which warms up the fridge and forces the compressor into
action. This seemed very odd at first, but it works okay.

What?
Blimey bet they don't sell many in hotter climes than ours, is this perhaps
the Antarctic Survey model?
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Maurice" wrote in message
news
Just had Indesit/Hotpoint engineer to mend a 6-month-old fridge freezer
that had stopped working.

He checked that it did work if power connected directly to compressor,
and then advised me that it wasn't designed to work if ambient temp
10oC, adding "But they don't tell you that when buying"!

Considering the target temp for a freezer is -18oC, it seems an odd
deign point, even though this one is in a garage whose ambient temp was
around 5oc.

He said he would order a new freezer thermostat (as "it didn't seem to
be working properly") and return to replace it.

[The previous fridge/freezer had been working for years in same
garage.]
--
/\/\aurice
(Replace "nomail.afraid" by "bcs" to reply by email)

On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 14:53:15 +0000, Scott
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 14:04:17 +0000, Caecilius
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 13:26:10 +0000 (UTC), Maurice
wrote:

Just had Indesit/Hotpoint engineer to mend a 6-month-old fridge freezer
that had stopped working.

He checked that it did work if power connected directly to compressor,
and then advised me that it wasn't designed to work if ambient temp
10oC, adding "But they don't tell you that when buying"!

Considering the target temp for a freezer is -18oC, it seems an odd
deign point, even though this one is in a garage whose ambient temp was
around 5oc.

He said he would order a new freezer thermostat (as "it didn't seem to
be working properly") and return to replace it.

[The previous fridge/freezer had been working for years in same
garage.]

Fridges and freezers have a climate class which specifies the
acceptable temperature range. But most only go down to 10 degrees C
ambient.

I used to have an old chest freezer in an outbuilding in the 1980s,
and that worked fine even in winter, but perhaps things have changed
since then.

Mind does not cope with low temperatures (indoors) in the winter.
There is a special switch though that leaves the internal light on all
the time, which warms up the fridge and forces the compressor into
action. This seemed very odd at first, but it works okay.

Confuses the hell out of Schrödinger's cat.


--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

Brian Gaff wrote:
What?
Blimey bet they don't sell many in hotter climes than ours, is this
perhaps the Antarctic Survey model?
Brian

Just had Indesit/Hotpoint engineer to mend a 6-month-old fridge
freezer that had stopped working.

He checked that it did work if power connected directly to
compressor, and then advised me that it wasn't designed to work if
ambient temp 10oC, adding "But they don't tell you that when
buying"! Considering the target temp for a freezer is -18oC, it seems an
odd
deign point, even though this one is in a garage whose ambient temp
was around 5oc.

He said he would order a new freezer thermostat (as "it didn't seem
to be working properly") and return to replace it.

[The previous fridge/freezer had been working for years in same
garage.]
--
/\/\aurice
(Replace "nomail.afraid" by "bcs" to reply by email)

The Indesit/Hotpoint engineer did not have a stat on his van??!!

On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 14:53:15 +0000, Scott wrote:

There is a special switch though that leaves the internal light on all
the time, which warms up the fridge and forces the compressor into
action. This seemed very odd at first, but it works okay.

Interesting! Perhaps as a last resort I could somehow prevent the
fridge light going out when door closed.

Otherwise perhaps install a low-wattage background heater?
(Where would the best place be?)

And/or wrap the unit (apart from rear) in a duvet to keep it warm?

I find the whole situation ludicrous.
What is the point of the high-set temperature? Economy?
Perhaps OK for just a fridge, but surely not for a freezer temp of
-18oC...

If the Indesit engineer can't replace the thermostat with a more useful
one it may be time to ask ao.com (who delivered the unit into the
garage) to replace it with one that will work there.

--
/\/\aurice
(Replace "nomail.afraid" by "bcs" to reply by email)

On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 13:50:45 -0000, Bob Minchin wrote:

Maurice wrote:
Just had Indesit/Hotpoint engineer to mend a 6-month-old fridge freezer
that had stopped working.

He checked that it did work if power connected directly to compressor,
and then advised me that it wasn't designed to work if ambient temp
10oC, adding "But they don't tell you that when buying"!

Considering the target temp for a freezer is -18oC, it seems an odd
deign point, even though this one is in a garage whose ambient temp was
around 5oc.

He said he would order a new freezer thermostat (as "it didn't seem to
be working properly") and return to replace it.

[The previous fridge/freezer had been working for years in same
garage.]

Quite normal and widely known since they started compromising on the
design of fridge freezers and fitting single compressors.

That makes no sense whatsoever. They must still have dual thermostats to keep the two sections at the right temperature. It's **easier** for the compressor to cool the fridge or freezer if the ambient is closer to its target! There is no way that a cooler outside would stop it working. The stat inside wouldn't even know it was cooler outside, and the compressor would find life easier.

--
Paddy and his wife are lying in bed and the neighbours' dog is barking like mad in the garden.
Paddy says "To hell with this!" and storms off.
He comes back upstairs 5 minutes later and his wife asks "What did you do?"
Paddy replies "I've put the dog in our garden. Let's see how they like it!"

On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 13:50:45 -0000, Bob Minchin wrote:

Maurice wrote:
Just had Indesit/Hotpoint engineer to mend a 6-month-old fridge freezer
that had stopped working.

He checked that it did work if power connected directly to compressor,
and then advised me that it wasn't designed to work if ambient temp
10oC, adding "But they don't tell you that when buying"!

Considering the target temp for a freezer is -18oC, it seems an odd
deign point, even though this one is in a garage whose ambient temp was
around 5oc.

He said he would order a new freezer thermostat (as "it didn't seem to
be working properly") and return to replace it.

[The previous fridge/freezer had been working for years in same
garage.]

Quite normal and widely known since they started compromising on the
design of fridge freezers and fitting single compressors.

[googles]

It seems to be the refrigerant used that's a problem. Can't expand and contract properly with low ambient temperature? I'd say "unfit for purpose" - people often put a freezer in a garage. I'd take it straight back to the shop and kick up a fuss.

--
Paddy and his wife are lying in bed and the neighbours' dog is barking like mad in the garden.
Paddy says "To hell with this!" and storms off.
He comes back upstairs 5 minutes later and his wife asks "What did you do?"
Paddy replies "I've put the dog in our garden. Let's see how they like it!"

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 13:50:45 -0000, Bob Minchin
wrote:
Maurice wrote:
Just had Indesit/Hotpoint engineer to mend a 6-month-old fridge
freezer that had stopped working.

He checked that it did work if power connected directly to
compressor, and then advised me that it wasn't designed to work if
ambient temp 10oC, adding "But they don't tell you that when
buying"! Considering the target temp for a freezer is -18oC, it seems an
odd
deign point, even though this one is in a garage whose ambient temp
was around 5oc.

He said he would order a new freezer thermostat (as "it didn't seem
to be working properly") and return to replace it.

[The previous fridge/freezer had been working for years in same
garage.]

Quite normal and widely known since they started compromising on the
design of fridge freezers and fitting single compressors.

[googles]

It seems to be the refrigerant used that's a problem. Can't expand
and contract properly with low ambient temperature? I'd say "unfit
for purpose" - people often put a freezer in a garage. I'd take it
straight back to the shop and kick up a fuss.

This has been a problem for many years.
BTW Mr Hucker, it's a fridge freezer - not a freezer. There is a difference.
When I left the trade 18 years ago I remember there was a thing called a
duel differential thermostat. This somehow sensed the temperature in the
freezer.
The old days of twin compressors and a stat in the freezer compartment I
think are long gone.
The big old Electrolux used to have them and still do, if yer wanna pay £2k.

On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 20:22:27 -0000, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 13:50:45 -0000, Bob Minchin
wrote:
Maurice wrote:
Just had Indesit/Hotpoint engineer to mend a 6-month-old fridge
freezer that had stopped working.

He checked that it did work if power connected directly to
compressor, and then advised me that it wasn't designed to work if
ambient temp 10oC, adding "But they don't tell you that when
buying"! Considering the target temp for a freezer is -18oC, it seems an
odd
deign point, even though this one is in a garage whose ambient temp
was around 5oc.

He said he would order a new freezer thermostat (as "it didn't seem
to be working properly") and return to replace it.

[The previous fridge/freezer had been working for years in same
garage.]

Quite normal and widely known since they started compromising on the
design of fridge freezers and fitting single compressors.

[googles]

It seems to be the refrigerant used that's a problem. Can't expand
and contract properly with low ambient temperature? I'd say "unfit
for purpose" - people often put a freezer in a garage. I'd take it
straight back to the shop and kick up a fuss.

This has been a problem for many years.
BTW Mr Hucker, it's a fridge freezer - not a freezer. There is a difference.

From what I googled it can happen to a freezer aswell.

When I left the trade 18 years ago I remember there was a thing called a
duel differential thermostat. This somehow sensed the temperature in the
freezer.
The old days of twin compressors and a stat in the freezer compartment I
think are long gone.
The big old Electrolux used to have them and still do, if yer wanna pay £2k.

I find it absurd that they rely on only one thermostat and hope the freezer part will be approximately right.

--
Archimedes principle: When a body is fully immersed in water, the telephone rings.

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 20:22:27 -0000, Mr Pounder Esquire
wrote:
James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 13:50:45 -0000, Bob Minchin
wrote:
Maurice wrote:
Just had Indesit/Hotpoint engineer to mend a 6-month-old fridge
freezer that had stopped working.

He checked that it did work if power connected directly to
compressor, and then advised me that it wasn't designed to work if
ambient temp 10oC, adding "But they don't tell you that when
buying"! Considering the target temp for a freezer is -18oC, it
seems an odd
deign point, even though this one is in a garage whose ambient
temp was around 5oc.

He said he would order a new freezer thermostat (as "it didn't
seem to be working properly") and return to replace it.

[The previous fridge/freezer had been working for years in same
garage.]

Quite normal and widely known since they started compromising on
the design of fridge freezers and fitting single compressors.

[googles]

It seems to be the refrigerant used that's a problem. Can't expand
and contract properly with low ambient temperature? I'd say "unfit
for purpose" - people often put a freezer in a garage. I'd take it
straight back to the shop and kick up a fuss.

This has been a problem for many years.
BTW Mr Hucker, it's a fridge freezer - not a freezer. There is a
difference.

From what I googled it can happen to a freezer aswell.

*See below.

When I left the trade 18 years ago I remember there was a thing
called a duel differential thermostat. This somehow sensed the
temperature in the freezer.
The old days of twin compressors and a stat in the freezer
compartment I think are long gone.
The big old Electrolux used to have them and still do, if yer wanna
pay £2k.

I find it absurd that they rely on only one thermostat and hope the
freezer part will be approximately right.

If you want cheap refrigeration, that is just what you get.
*We have a cheap ten year old freezer in the garage. It's only used at
Christmas, this as the other fridge freezer can't accommodate the extra
food.
It achieves and holds -22C with no problem.
Temp in the garage in a bad winter was -18C.
A fridge/freezer could have been different.

On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 21:36:04 -0000, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 20:22:27 -0000, Mr Pounder Esquire
wrote:
James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 13:50:45 -0000, Bob Minchin
wrote:
Maurice wrote:
Just had Indesit/Hotpoint engineer to mend a 6-month-old fridge
freezer that had stopped working.

He checked that it did work if power connected directly to
compressor, and then advised me that it wasn't designed to work if
ambient temp 10oC, adding "But they don't tell you that when
buying"! Considering the target temp for a freezer is -18oC, it
seems an odd
deign point, even though this one is in a garage whose ambient
temp was around 5oc.

He said he would order a new freezer thermostat (as "it didn't
seem to be working properly") and return to replace it.

[The previous fridge/freezer had been working for years in same
garage.]

Quite normal and widely known since they started compromising on
the design of fridge freezers and fitting single compressors.

[googles]

It seems to be the refrigerant used that's a problem. Can't expand
and contract properly with low ambient temperature? I'd say "unfit
for purpose" - people often put a freezer in a garage. I'd take it
straight back to the shop and kick up a fuss.

This has been a problem for many years.
BTW Mr Hucker, it's a fridge freezer - not a freezer. There is a
difference.

From what I googled it can happen to a freezer aswell.

*See below.

When I left the trade 18 years ago I remember there was a thing
called a duel differential thermostat. This somehow sensed the
temperature in the freezer.
The old days of twin compressors and a stat in the freezer
compartment I think are long gone.
The big old Electrolux used to have them and still do, if yer wanna
pay £2k.

I find it absurd that they rely on only one thermostat and hope the
freezer part will be approximately right.

If you want cheap refrigeration, that is just what you get.
*We have a cheap ten year old freezer in the garage. It's only used at
Christmas, this as the other fridge freezer can't accommodate the extra
food.
It achieves and holds -22C with no problem.
Temp in the garage in a bad winter was -18C.
A fridge/freezer could have been different.

The trouble is, most people won't know to check the specs of the machine before they buy it. I wonder how many have to get returned as unfit for purpose?

--
Crazy Laws in towns of the state of Illinois:
The English language is not to be spoken.
You must contact the police before entering the city in an automobile.
You may be convicted of a Class 4 felony offense, punishable by up to three years in state prison, for the crime of "eavesdropping" on your own conversation. -720 ILCS 5/14-2.
Law forbids eating in a place that is on fire.
It is forbidden to fish while sitting on a giraffe's neck.
It is legal to protest naked in front of city hall as long as you are under seventeen years of age and have legal permits.
One may not pee in his neighbor's mouth.
Humming on public streets is prohibited on Sundays.
Wheelbarrows with For-Sale signs may not be chained to trees.
A man with a moustache may not kiss a woman.
It is illegal to go trick-or-treating on Halloween.
It is unlawful to change clothes in an automobile with the curtains drawn, except in case of fire.
It is illegal to expectorate from any second-story window.
It is against the law to use a slingshot unless your are a law enforcement officer.
A rooster must step back three hundred feet from any residence if he wishes to crow. Hens that wish to cackle must step two hundred feet back from any residence.
Bees are not allowed to fly over the village or through any of Kriland's streets.
Ice skating at the Riverside pond during the months of June and August is prohibited.
There is a ban on unnecessary repetitive driving on 23rd Avenue.
It is against the law to make faces at dogs.

On 28/01/2017 14:04, Caecilius wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 13:26:10 +0000 (UTC), Maurice
wrote:

Just had Indesit/Hotpoint engineer to mend a 6-month-old fridge freezer
that had stopped working.

He checked that it did work if power connected directly to compressor,
and then advised me that it wasn't designed to work if ambient temp
10oC, adding "But they don't tell you that when buying"!

Considering the target temp for a freezer is -18oC, it seems an odd
deign point, even though this one is in a garage whose ambient temp was
around 5oc.

He said he would order a new freezer thermostat (as "it didn't seem to
be working properly") and return to replace it.

[The previous fridge/freezer had been working for years in same
garage.]

Fridges and freezers have a climate class which specifies the
acceptable temperature range. But most only go down to 10 degrees C
ambient.

I used to have an old chest freezer in an outbuilding in the 1980s,
and that worked fine even in winter, but perhaps things have changed
since then.

My Liebherr fridge/freezer has a conventional electro-mechanical
thermostat and it has a 'cool weather' button which simply
keeps the internal light on at reduced brightness. The purpose
of this is to trick the thermostat into thinking the fridge is
warmer than it is. This keeps the freezer from getting too warm.

On 28/01/2017 13:26, Maurice wrote:
Just had Indesit/Hotpoint engineer to mend a 6-month-old fridge freezer
that had stopped working.

He checked that it did work if power connected directly to compressor,
and then advised me that it wasn't designed to work if ambient temp
10oC, adding "But they don't tell you that when buying"!


I put my freezer in the cellar - temp range 6C to 14C. The only easily
available brand that would work in those temperatures was a Beko.

Something to do with the refrigerant used I think - can';t remember the
details now.

--
Cheers, Rob

NY wrote:

When she bought another freezer, we chose one by Beko which was certified
for ambient temps down to about -15. It lives in the house, along with
others that are not suitable for low temps, but can be moved into the shed
if we need the space in the pantry for something else.

When I needed one to go in our garage, Beko was the only make
that I could find that was actually rated for such a location.

Being an inset garage, it doesn't get very cold, but would still
have been outside everybody else's terms, and I didn't want to
risk warranty quibbles.

No complaints so far.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 13:50:45 +0000, Bob Minchin wrote:

Quite normal and widely known

Not at all widely known to the public at large, according to:

https://www.whitegoodshelp.co.uk/can...r-in-a-garage/

--
/\/\aurice
(Replace "nomail.afraid" by "bcs" to reply by email)

"Mr Pounder Esquire" wrote in message
news
When I left the trade 18 years ago I remember there was a thing called a
duel differential thermostat. This somehow sensed the temperature in the
freezer.
The old days of twin compressors and a stat in the freezer compartment I
think are long gone.

Er hang on. Are you saying that modern fridge-freezers only have one
thermostat? How do they maintain different temperatures (4 C and -18C) in
the fridge and freezer compartments? Surely the freezer compartment will
need more frequent cooling (ie a heavier compressor duty cycle) because it
is set to be at a colder temperature and therefore for the same heat loss
through the walls will tend to warm it up more to room temperature. Or do
modern fridge-freezers make some naive assumptions that if the rate of heat
loss in degrees per square metre is the same for both cabinets, then as long
as the freezer gets a greater proportion of the refrigerant, a single
thermostat in the fridge compartment can control both compressors (indeed,
they are the same compressor) and as long as the fridge is regulated to
temperature, the freezer will be also? I can see how a single thermostat and
carefully-proportioned refrigerant flow could achieve two different
temperatures, but not why it would *inherently* impose a very high lower
limit on the room temperature.

I can believe that some refrigerants won't work as well at lower
temperatures because they may solidify instead of remaining liquid. But I
can't believe that a single thermostat in one cabinet can correctly regulate
the temperature in the other without making some very naive assumptions.

You say "[the dual differential thermostat] somehow sensed the temperature
in the freezer" as if it was difficult or required ingenuity, whereas surely
each cabinet has its own bimetallic strip thermostat, set to a different
cutoff temperature, and then you either have two separate compressors and
separate refrigerant circuits or else if you want to cut costs you have a
single compressor, controlled by both thermostats using "OR" logic, with one
valve per cabinet, controlled by its thermostat, which directs refrigerant
where it is needed at that time - in the same way that a central heating
boiler that also heats a cylinder of water usually has a single boiler and
pump but valves to direct the heated water where it is needed (CH / HW / CH
and HW).

I'm sure I'm about to be educated... :-)

On 29/01/2017 13:29, NY wrote:
"Mr Pounder Esquire" wrote in message
news
When I left the trade 18 years ago I remember there was a thing called
a duel differential thermostat. This somehow sensed the temperature in
the freezer.
The old days of twin compressors and a stat in the freezer compartment
I think are long gone.

Er hang on. Are you saying that modern fridge-freezers only have one
thermostat? How do they maintain different temperatures (4 C and -18C)
in the fridge and freezer compartments? Surely the freezer compartment
will need more frequent cooling (ie a heavier compressor duty cycle)
because it is set to be at a colder temperature and therefore for the
same heat loss through the walls will tend to warm it up more to room
temperature. Or do modern fridge-freezers make some naive assumptions
that if the rate of heat loss in degrees per square metre is the same
for both cabinets, then as long as the freezer gets a greater proportion
of the refrigerant, a single thermostat in the fridge compartment can
control both compressors (indeed, they are the same compressor) and as
long as the fridge is regulated to temperature, the freezer will be
also?

Well mine has only one thermostat control, so I guess it's designed so
that if the freezer part is cold enough the fridge part will be about right.

(Mind you, the back of the fridge part of mine is constantly icing up,
and, in the freezer part, even "soft scoop" ice cream is hard as iron
and needs to be taken out ten minutes in advance of use. And that's with
the thermostat control set at the minimum. Actually, the compressor is
on nearly all the time: about once a day it turns off with a loud "pop"
and stays off for about three hours.)

--
Max Demian

On Sat, 28 Jan 2017 13:26:10 +0000, I wrote:

Considering the target temp for a freezer is -18oC, it seems an odd
deign point, even though this one is in a garage whose ambient temp was
around 5oc.

Interesting FAQ answers at:

https://www.reevoo.com/pages/fridge_...r_buying_guide

"Climate class
This is the room temperature that the fridge freezer can operate in. The
most common classes in the UK are N class which means it should be in a
room with a minimum temperature of 16°C and a maximum temperature of
32°C. SN models can cope in temperatures between 10°C and 32°C. Other
classes are ST and T which operates best at a minimum temperature of 18°C
and a maximum of 38°C and 43°C respectively."

"Can I keep a fridge-freezer in a garage?

All fridge free freezers have a climate class which tells you the minimum
and maximum room temperature they should be placed in to work properly.
For most models the minimum temperature is 10°C and most sheds and
garages are colder than this in winter. When the temperature is lower
than this, the fridge freezer will use more energy to maintain the right
temperature. If it is kept in an out building and it does break down, it
may not be covered by the guarantee. Chest freezers are better suited to
outdoor houses as they are double insulated."

Note:
...When the temperature is lower than this, the fridge freezer will
use more energy to maintain the right temperature.

Uh? But it does NOT maintain the (-18oC) temperature..


If it is kept in an out building and it does break down,
it may not be covered by the guarantee.

How can that be justified?!

--
/\/\aurice
(Replace "nomail.afraid" by "bcs" to reply by email)

"Maurice" wrote in message
news
...When the temperature is lower than this, the fridge freezer will
use more energy to maintain the right temperature.

How can it take *more* energy to run a freezer if the ambient temperature is
lower and therefore there is less heat transfer from the room to the freezer
that the compressor needs to remove. Seems counter-intuitive. But then it
always seems counter-intuitive that a vacuum cleaner uses less power (and
the motor runs faster) when the outlet is blocked by your hand and the
hoover is sucking hardest. I can see why this is (lack of airflow), so maybe
there's a similar reason why a freezer in a cold room (more similar to the
temp inside the freezer) uses more power.

On Sunday, 29 January 2017 14:31:35 UTC, Max Demian wrote:
On 29/01/2017 13:29, NY wrote:
"Mr Pounder Esquire" wrote in message
news
When I left the trade 18 years ago I remember there was a thing called
a duel differential thermostat. This somehow sensed the temperature in
the freezer.
The old days of twin compressors and a stat in the freezer compartment
I think are long gone.

Er hang on. Are you saying that modern fridge-freezers only have one
thermostat? How do they maintain different temperatures (4 C and -18C)
in the fridge and freezer compartments? Surely the freezer compartment
will need more frequent cooling (ie a heavier compressor duty cycle)
because it is set to be at a colder temperature and therefore for the
same heat loss through the walls will tend to warm it up more to room
temperature. Or do modern fridge-freezers make some naive assumptions
that if the rate of heat loss in degrees per square metre is the same
for both cabinets, then as long as the freezer gets a greater proportion
of the refrigerant, a single thermostat in the fridge compartment can
control both compressors (indeed, they are the same compressor) and as
long as the fridge is regulated to temperature, the freezer will be
also?

Well mine has only one thermostat control, so I guess it's designed so
that if the freezer part is cold enough the fridge part will be about right.

(Mind you, the back of the fridge part of mine is constantly icing up,
and, in the freezer part, even "soft scoop" ice cream is hard as iron
and needs to be taken out ten minutes in advance of use. And that's with
the thermostat control set at the minimum. Actually, the compressor is
on nearly all the time: about once a day it turns off with a loud "pop"
and stays off for about three hours.)

It's cheaper to buy a new one than pay for that excess electricity.


NT

On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 13:29:49 -0000, NY wrote:

"Mr Pounder Esquire" wrote in message
news
When I left the trade 18 years ago I remember there was a thing called a
duel differential thermostat. This somehow sensed the temperature in the
freezer.
The old days of twin compressors and a stat in the freezer compartment I
think are long gone.

Er hang on. Are you saying that modern fridge-freezers only have one
thermostat? How do they maintain different temperatures (4 C and -18C) in
the fridge and freezer compartments?

Guesswork. One of the compartments will be the wrong temperature and your food will poison you. They shouldn't be allowed to be made that way. All these pointless ****ing regulations we have, yet a fridge freezer can be made that GUESSES the temperature!

You say "[the dual differential thermostat] somehow sensed the temperature
in the freezer" as if it was difficult or required ingenuity, whereas surely
each cabinet has its own bimetallic strip thermostat, set to a different
cutoff temperature, and then you either have two separate compressors and
separate refrigerant circuits or else if you want to cut costs you have a
single compressor, controlled by both thermostats using "OR" logic, with one
valve per cabinet, controlled by its thermostat, which directs refrigerant
where it is needed at that time - in the same way that a central heating
boiler that also heats a cylinder of water usually has a single boiler and
pump but valves to direct the heated water where it is needed (CH / HW / CH
and HW).

I'm sure I'm about to be educated... :-)

Maybe you can't use valves in the same way, but I can't think why.

--
Watching his date from the corner of his eye while he poured her a drink, the young bachelor said, "Say when."
She replied, "Right after that drink."

NY wrote:
"Bob Minchin" wrote in message

Quite normal and widely known since they started compromising on the
design of fridge freezers and fitting single compressors.

Maybe widely know in the trade, but I doubt whether many lay people
would be aware of it.

It was covered by Watchdog 15 years ago at least. I imagine it still
comes up at regular intervals (I long stopped watching TV.)

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

NY wrote
Mr Pounder Esquire wrote

When I left the trade 18 years ago I remember there was a thing called a
duel differential thermostat. This somehow sensed the temperature in the
freezer.

The old days of twin compressors and a stat in the freezer compartment I
think are long gone.

Er hang on. Are you saying that modern fridge-freezers only have one
thermostat?

Yep, and its trivial to check that.

How do they maintain different temperatures (4 C and -18C) in the fridge
and freezer compartments?

By ensuring you get that result when the the fridge thermostat
maintains 4C etc, by how the flow of cold is done in.

Surely the freezer compartment will need more frequent cooling (ie a
heavier compressor duty cycle) because it is set to be at a colder
temperature and therefore for the same heat loss through the walls will
tend to warm it up more to room temperature.

Not when you design it so the coldest air with a frost free
goes into the freezer part first and then to the fridge part.

Or do modern fridge-freezers make some naive assumptions that if the rate
of heat loss in degrees per square metre is the same for both cabinets,

Nope.

then as long as the freezer gets a greater proportion of the refrigerant,
a single thermostat in the fridge compartment can control both compressors

There arent two compressors.

(indeed, they are the same compressor) and as long as the fridge is
regulated to temperature, the freezer will be also?

Yep.

I can see how a single thermostat and carefully-proportioned refrigerant
flow

It isnt done like that. The freezer gets the coldest air
first with a frost free and then the rest of the fridge.

could achieve two different temperatures, but not why it would
*inherently* impose a very high lower limit on the room temperature.

That limit with the room temp is due to something
else entirely, the refrigerant used in the compressor.

I can believe that some refrigerants won't work as well at lower
temperatures because they may solidify instead of remaining liquid.

Not just that, their latent heat varys too.

But I can't believe that a single thermostat in one cabinet can correctly
regulate the temperature in the other without making some very naive
assumptions.

Its not a naïve assumption, its careful design.

You say "[the dual differential thermostat] somehow sensed the temperature
in the freezer" as if it was difficult or required ingenuity, whereas
surely each cabinet has its own bimetallic strip thermostat, set to a
different cutoff temperature, and then you either have two separate
compressors and separate refrigerant circuits or else if you want to cut
costs you have a single compressor, controlled by both thermostats using
"OR" logic, with one valve per cabinet, controlled by its thermostat,
which directs refrigerant where it is needed at that time - in the same
way that a central heating boiler that also heats a cylinder of water
usually has a single boiler and pump but valves to direct the heated water
where it is needed (CH / HW / CH and HW).

That obscenity of a sentence should be taken out the back and beaten
to death with the largest waddy you can find, before it multipys }-(
http://www.wordnik.com/words/waddy

I'm sure I'm about to be educated... :-)

Remains to be seen if that is even possible now }-(

NY wrote
Maurice wrote

When the temperature is lower than this, the fridge freezer will use
more energy to maintain the right temperature.

How can it take *more* energy to run a freezer if the ambient temperature
is lower and therefore there is less heat transfer from the room to the
freezer that the compressor needs to remove.

When the refrigerant doesnt work as well at that temp.

Seems counter-intuitive.

Sure.

But then it always seems counter-intuitive that a vacuum cleaner uses less
power (and the motor runs faster) when the outlet is blocked by your hand
and the hoover is sucking hardest. I can see why this is (lack of
airflow), so maybe there's a similar reason why a freezer in a cold room
(more similar to the temp inside the freezer) uses more power.

Yes, because the refrigerant behaves differently.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
You say "[the dual differential thermostat] somehow sensed the
temperature in the freezer" as if it was difficult or required ingenuity,
whereas surely each cabinet has its own bimetallic strip thermostat, set
to a different cutoff temperature, and then you either have two separate
compressors and separate refrigerant circuits or else if you want to cut
costs you have a single compressor, controlled by both thermostats using
"OR" logic, with one valve per cabinet, controlled by its thermostat,
which directs refrigerant where it is needed at that time - in the same
way that a central heating boiler that also heats a cylinder of water
usually has a single boiler and pump but valves to direct the heated
water where it is needed (CH / HW / CH and HW).

That obscenity of a sentence should be taken out the back and beaten
to death with the largest waddy you can find, before it multipys }-(
http://www.wordnik.com/words/waddy

Er, yes [blush] Did I really write that all as one sentence with barely a
pause for breath? Apologies for that. That rivals the opening sentence of
Oliver Twist in terms of being impenetrable and tortuous:

"Among other public buildings in a certain town, which for many reasons it
will be prudent to refrain from mentioning, and to which I will assign no
fictitious name, there is one anciently common to most towns, great or
small: to wit, a workhouse; and in this workhouse was born - on a day and
date which I need not trouble myself to repeat, inasmuch as it can be of no
possible consequence to the reader, in this stage of the business at all
events - the item of mortality whose name is prefixed to the head of this
chapter."

Gordon Bennett!

(not that I'm claiming to be anything like as profound as Charles Dickens)

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
NY wrote
Maurice wrote

When the temperature is lower than this, the fridge freezer will use
more energy to maintain the right temperature.

How can it take *more* energy to run a freezer if the ambient temperature
is lower and therefore there is less heat transfer from the room to the
freezer that the compressor needs to remove.

When the refrigerant doesnt work as well at that temp.

In terms of the amount of heat that can be carried away from the freezer
chamber per unit amount of refrigerant?

Given that the refrigerant needs to boil to extract heat by latent heat of
vaporisation, it won't work if the ambient temp is below the refrigerant's
boiling point...

Seems counter-intuitive.

Sure.

But then it always seems counter-intuitive that a vacuum cleaner uses
less power (and the motor runs faster) when the outlet is blocked by your
hand and the hoover is sucking hardest. I can see why this is (lack of
airflow), so maybe there's a similar reason why a freezer in a cold room
(more similar to the temp inside the freezer) uses more power.

Yes, because the refrigerant behaves differently.

Ah. OK. Yes, I understand that. Thanks. I wasn't sure whether it was
manufacturers' bull**** but it sounds as if there are reasons of physics
behind it, which I believe far more readily :-)

On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 20:17:19 -0000, NY wrote:

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
You say "[the dual differential thermostat] somehow sensed the
temperature in the freezer" as if it was difficult or required ingenuity,
whereas surely each cabinet has its own bimetallic strip thermostat, set
to a different cutoff temperature, and then you either have two separate
compressors and separate refrigerant circuits or else if you want to cut
costs you have a single compressor, controlled by both thermostats using
"OR" logic, with one valve per cabinet, controlled by its thermostat,
which directs refrigerant where it is needed at that time - in the same
way that a central heating boiler that also heats a cylinder of water
usually has a single boiler and pump but valves to direct the heated
water where it is needed (CH / HW / CH and HW).

That obscenity of a sentence should be taken out the back and beaten
to death with the largest waddy you can find, before it multipys }-(
http://www.wordnik.com/words/waddy

Er, yes [blush] Did I really write that all as one sentence with barely a
pause for breath? Apologies for that.

I didn't even notice. Perhaps Rod has a small brain with insufficient memory for the whole sentence?

--
"Have you read The Three Musketeers?"
"No, only one of them."

NY wrote
Rod Speed wrote
NY wrote
Maurice wrote

When the temperature is lower than this, the fridge freezer will use
more energy to maintain the right temperature.

How can it take *more* energy to run a freezer if the ambient
temperature is lower and therefore there is less heat transfer from the
room to the freezer that the compressor needs to remove.

When the refrigerant doesnt work as well at that temp.

In terms of the amount of heat that can be carried away from the freezer
chamber per unit amount of refrigerant?

Yes, most obviously if the refrigerant goes gluggy at the lower
temps and doesnt work as well as a refrigerant at the lower temps.

Given that the refrigerant needs to boil to extract heat by latent heat of
vaporisation,

That isnt the only way refrigerants work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrig...s_and_R-number

it won't work if the ambient temp is below the refrigerant's boiling
point...

And it isnt necessarily as black and white as that.

Seems counter-intuitive.

Sure.

But then it always seems counter-intuitive that a vacuum cleaner uses
less power (and the motor runs faster) when the outlet is blocked by
your hand and the hoover is sucking hardest. I can see why this is (lack
of airflow), so maybe there's a similar reason why a freezer in a cold
room (more similar to the temp inside the freezer) uses more power.

Yes, because the refrigerant behaves differently.

Ah. OK. Yes, I understand that. Thanks. I wasn't sure whether it was
manufacturers' bull**** but it sounds as if there are reasons of physics
behind it, which I believe far more readily :-)

Yeah, there are a surprising number of different refrigerants
and mixes used even just in domestic freezers.

Presumably the ones that still work fine at the lower ambient
temps have other downsides at normal ambient temps and
that is why they aren't used all the time in case someone
chooses to use them in a shed or garage outside the house.

"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 20:17:19 -0000, NY wrote:

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
You say "[the dual differential thermostat] somehow sensed the
temperature in the freezer" as if it was difficult or required
ingenuity,
whereas surely each cabinet has its own bimetallic strip thermostat,
set
to a different cutoff temperature, and then you either have two
separate
compressors and separate refrigerant circuits or else if you want to
cut
costs you have a single compressor, controlled by both thermostats
using
"OR" logic, with one valve per cabinet, controlled by its thermostat,
which directs refrigerant where it is needed at that time - in the same
way that a central heating boiler that also heats a cylinder of water
usually has a single boiler and pump but valves to direct the heated
water where it is needed (CH / HW / CH and HW).

That obscenity of a sentence should be taken out the back and beaten
to death with the largest waddy you can find, before it multipys }-(
http://www.wordnik.com/words/waddy

Er, yes [blush] Did I really write that all as one sentence with barely a
pause for breath? Apologies for that.

I didn't even notice. Perhaps Rod has a small brain with insufficient
memory for the whole sentence?

I do in fact write sentences like that myself quite often.

I just chose to make a snide remark about what I am often guilty of doing.

"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 20:17:19 -0000, NY wrote:

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
You say "[the dual differential thermostat] somehow sensed the
temperature in the freezer" as if it was difficult or required
ingenuity,
whereas surely each cabinet has its own bimetallic strip thermostat,
set
to a different cutoff temperature, and then you either have two
separate
compressors and separate refrigerant circuits or else if you want to
cut
costs you have a single compressor, controlled by both thermostats
using
"OR" logic, with one valve per cabinet, controlled by its thermostat,
which directs refrigerant where it is needed at that time - in the same
way that a central heating boiler that also heats a cylinder of water
usually has a single boiler and pump but valves to direct the heated
water where it is needed (CH / HW / CH and HW).

That obscenity of a sentence should be taken out the back and beaten
to death with the largest waddy you can find, before it multipys }-(
http://www.wordnik.com/words/waddy

Er, yes [blush] Did I really write that all as one sentence with barely a
pause for breath? Apologies for that.

I didn't even notice. Perhaps Rod has a small brain with insufficient
memory for the whole sentence?

Rod's stack overflowed :-)

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Er, yes [blush] Did I really write that all as one sentence with barely
a
pause for breath? Apologies for that.

I didn't even notice. Perhaps Rod has a small brain with insufficient
memory for the whole sentence?

I do in fact write sentences like that myself quite often.

I just chose to make a snide remark about what I am often guilty of doing.

Pot. Kettle. Black. But deserved - I excelled myself with my sentence.

On 28/01/2017 13:26, Maurice wrote:
Just had Indesit/Hotpoint engineer to mend a 6-month-old fridge freezer
that had stopped working.

He checked that it did work if power connected directly to compressor,
and then advised me that it wasn't designed to work if ambient temp
10oC, adding "But they don't tell you that when buying"!

Considering the target temp for a freezer is -18oC, it seems an odd
deign point, even though this one is in a garage whose ambient temp was
around 5oc.

He said he would order a new freezer thermostat (as "it didn't seem to
be working properly") and return to replace it.

[The previous fridge/freezer had been working for years in same
garage.]



Some retailers do give details of the ambient temperature, at least for
some models, even saying 'suitable for use in outbuildings' or similar.

We ran a cheap chest freezer for 20+ years, 7 or so in a shed, the rest
in a garage. We replaced it a few months ago but only as the seal failed
and we decided it owed us nothing, it still actually worked.

We run the new one, chosen as it was specified to work in a garage etc,
in our garage. We also run a normal fridge/freezer in there, the one
previously in the kitchen until we had it 'redone'. The fridge/freezer
never seems to have an issue, it must have been in there 6 or 7 years.

On 29/01/2017 20:42, Rod Speed wrote:
NY wrote
Rod Speed wrote
NY wrote
Maurice wrote

When the temperature is lower than this, the fridge freezer will
use more energy to maintain the right temperature.

How can it take *more* energy to run a freezer if the ambient
temperature is lower and therefore there is less heat transfer from
the room to the freezer that the compressor needs to remove.

When the refrigerant doesnt work as well at that temp.

In terms of the amount of heat that can be carried away from the
freezer chamber per unit amount of refrigerant?

Yes, most obviously if the refrigerant goes gluggy at the lower
temps and doesnt work as well as a refrigerant at the lower temps.


Mmmm. Not sure I follow. Are you saying that, for gluggy refrigerant,
the compressor will draw more power at lower temperatures? Or it needs
to run for a longer period to achieve a given amount of cooling? Or
something else?

--
Cheers, Rob