On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 12:50:08 AM UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
NY wrote:
44.4kHz was a compromise between quality and play time. It was a very
good compromise, but we might as well go a little better now there's
no reason not to.

I think that 44.1 was chosen to be sufficiently good that only dogs and
bats would notice the limitations.

It is generally accepted that human hearing is 20-20,000 Hz
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_range and many other sources) and
diminishes with age.

For those who go on about how good FM radio is they should note it doesn't
go anywhere near 20 kHz. ;-)


It goes to 16 kHz which is quite close.

They chose to cut it there so they coudl fit in eth 19 kHz pilot tone and then use the bandwidth up to 38 kHz for th stereo difference signal.

Robert

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
That could well be. However, you didn't work in TV all your working
life like me. And I can assure you that the percentage of gay men
working in the design department was little different from the average.

working in TV in the middle agaes as you did doesn;t mean a lot as
there weren't many gay men were there.

Have you any figures which prove conclusively there were less
homosexuals at any particular point in time?

No, how would you get that info go back in time.

You've just stated there were less gay men back in time. Of course there
would be less given the smaller population.


I'd have thought they'd
be pretty much the same percentage wise, but if you make being gay
illegal and punishable you might not get a very truthful responce from
those you ask.

Quite. But that's not what you said.



Even Alan Turin wasn't gay or identified as gay by the masses at the
time just like there;s few gay footballers.

Ah. What you mean is there were many fewer who admitted to being
homosexual, or having homosexual feelings. A very different matter.

Well spotted. You may have also found that during those times less
people known about such things I have a friend tonight visiting, when we
first met 1994 she was a girl, she has had the hormones and everyone
she meets assumes he is a male, then they work out he's a gay male. They
have no idea he has a virgina.

Medical treatment to 'change sex' is a relatively recent thing. And very
little to do with being gay or not.


Even in the 50s few outside the business knew Rock hudson was gay or
that many of the actors were in fact gay, making it illegal to be
gay didn't help you count them of course. There are very few gay
footballers even today, 10 years or so ago there wasn't any were
there.

Have you asked them all? Do they all know you well enough to be honest
with you?

Nothing to do with me why come out to me.


Design in stage, TV and film is far more than just choosing the
fluffy cushions. It involves designing sets. More like an
architect than anything else.

Gay people can be architects as can women, I went out with one.

Precisely. You'll find homosexuals in all walks of life. But in some
professions can be more open about it.

and in some professions they are more attracted to.
why do you thin k it;s some why aren't all professions equal.

--
*If horrific means to make horrible, does terrific mean to make terrible?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
RobertL wrote:
On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 12:50:08 AM UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , NY
wrote:
44.4kHz was a compromise between quality and play time. It was a
very good compromise, but we might as well go a little better now
there's no reason not to.

I think that 44.1 was chosen to be sufficiently good that only dogs
and bats would notice the limitations.

It is generally accepted that human hearing is 20-20,000 Hz
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_range and many other sources)
and diminishes with age.

For those who go on about how good FM radio is they should note it
doesn't go anywhere near 20 kHz. ;-)


It goes to 16 kHz which is quite close.

They chose to cut it there so they coudl fit in eth 19 kHz pilot tone
and then use the bandwidth up to 38 kHz for th stereo difference signal.

Yup. They degraded the mono performance to squeeze in stereo. Nothing new
under the sun.

--
*Why isn't 11 pronounced onety one? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Christ on a bike, traics and virginas.

On 01/02/2017 17:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
RobertL wrote:
On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 12:50:08 AM UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , NY
wrote:

It is generally accepted that human hearing is 20-20,000 Hz
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_range and many other sources)
and diminishes with age.

For those who go on about how good FM radio is they should note it
doesn't go anywhere near 20 kHz. ;-)

It goes to 16 kHz which is quite close.

They chose to cut it there so they coudl fit in eth 19 kHz pilot tone
and then use the bandwidth up to 38 kHz for th stereo difference signal.

Yup. They degraded the mono performance to squeeze in stereo. Nothing new
under the sun.

May they realised that few adults could hear above 15 kHz, and children
don't design radio transmission standards.

Also, apparently, they were experimenting with multiplexing of various
sorts since the early days of FM:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM_broadcasting#Stereo_FM

--
Max Demian

In article , Max
Demian scribeth thus
On 01/02/2017 17:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
RobertL wrote:
On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 12:50:08 AM UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , NY
wrote:

It is generally accepted that human hearing is 20-20,000 Hz
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_range and many other sources)
and diminishes with age.

For those who go on about how good FM radio is they should note it
doesn't go anywhere near 20 kHz. ;-)

It goes to 16 kHz which is quite close.

They chose to cut it there so they coudl fit in eth 19 kHz pilot tone
and then use the bandwidth up to 38 kHz for th stereo difference signal.

Yup. They degraded the mono performance to squeeze in stereo. Nothing new
under the sun.

How do that degrade the mono performance then?..

May they realised that few adults could hear above 15 kHz, and children
don't design radio transmission standards.

Also, apparently, they were experimenting with multiplexing of various
sorts since the early days of FM:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM_broadcasting#Stereo_FM


Yes indeed there were, the Zenith GE system isn't that bad in fact for
what it is it does work very well.

Least they can't bugger it about and squeeze the bit rates and make it
low quality Mono;!..
--
Tony Sayer

On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 00:22:39 +0000, tony sayer
wrote:

In article , Max
Demian scribeth thus
On 01/02/2017 17:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
RobertL wrote:
On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 12:50:08 AM UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , NY
wrote:

It is generally accepted that human hearing is 20-20,000 Hz
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_range and many other sources)
and diminishes with age.

For those who go on about how good FM radio is they should note it
doesn't go anywhere near 20 kHz. ;-)

It goes to 16 kHz which is quite close.

They chose to cut it there so they coudl fit in eth 19 kHz pilot tone
and then use the bandwidth up to 38 kHz for th stereo difference signal.

Yup. They degraded the mono performance to squeeze in stereo. Nothing new
under the sun.

How do that degrade the mono performance then?..


The deviation has to be reduced to allow for the stereo component, so
signal to noise ratio is reduced slightly for mono listeners. No doubt
the PP was thinking that the bandwidth was wider before stereo as
there was no explicit filtering - but there wasn't any meaningful
signal above 15kHz anyway, especially if you didn't live in the SE.

May they realised that few adults could hear above 15 kHz, and children
don't design radio transmission standards.

Also, apparently, they were experimenting with multiplexing of various
sorts since the early days of FM:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM_broadcasting#Stereo_FM


Yes indeed there were, the Zenith GE system isn't that bad in fact for
what it is it does work very well.

Least they can't bugger it about and squeeze the bit rates and make it
low quality Mono;!..

No, but they can bugger about with the dynamic range.

On 02/02/17 00:22, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Max
Demian scribeth thus
On 01/02/2017 17:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
RobertL wrote:
On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 12:50:08 AM UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , NY
wrote:

It is generally accepted that human hearing is 20-20,000 Hz
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_range and many other sources)
and diminishes with age.

For those who go on about how good FM radio is they should note it
doesn't go anywhere near 20 kHz. ;-)

It goes to 16 kHz which is quite close.

They chose to cut it there so they coudl fit in eth 19 kHz pilot tone
and then use the bandwidth up to 38 kHz for th stereo difference signal.

Yup. They degraded the mono performance to squeeze in stereo. Nothing new
under the sun.

How do that degrade the mono performance then?..

You needed a steep rolloff at 16Khz and a deep notch at 19Khz applied to
the audio before adding in the pilot tone and subcarrier.
19Khz.

However what really screwed FM was going down to 100Khz channel spacing
with 200Khz in any local area.

You really needed wideband IF to get decent stereos at high frequencies,
and the sharp skirted IF filters needed to reject adjacent channels were
noticeably worse when applied :-(

Digital should and could be better.

--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

In article ,
Bill Taylor wrote:
How do that degrade the mono performance then?..


The deviation has to be reduced to allow for the stereo component, so
signal to noise ratio is reduced slightly for mono listeners. No doubt
the PP was thinking that the bandwidth was wider before stereo as
there was no explicit filtering - but there wasn't any meaningful
signal above 15kHz anyway, especially if you didn't live in the SE.

In the early days of FM there was often little difference between FM and
AN bandwidth, due to the land lines, if a long way from London. But all
that changed with NICAM.

May they realised that few adults could hear above 15 kHz, and children
don't design radio transmission standards.

Also, apparently, they were experimenting with multiplexing of various
sorts since the early days of FM:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM_broadcasting#Stereo_FM


Yes indeed there were, the Zenith GE system isn't that bad in fact for
what it is it does work very well.

Least they can't bugger it about and squeeze the bit rates and make it
low quality Mono;!..

No, but they can bugger about with the dynamic range.

The way the signal is processed before the transmitter can make more
difference than the transmission medium.

--
*If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
whisky-dave writes
On Tuesday, 31 January 2017 14:03:00 UTC, Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 02:52:24 -0800, whisky-dave wrote:

On Monday, 30 January 2017 23:49:47 UTC, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jan 2017 05:32:26 -0800, whisky-dave wrote:

====snip====


Like some people can see better and more gradients of colour
especially women it seems can better distinguish small differences in
shades of colours.

Considering the largely female readership of "Fifty Shades of Grey", I
find that rather surprising. You'd think a book called "A Thousand
Shades of Grey" would have been the more appealing title if that were
true.

True but it was a man that invented the black and white TV, he didn't
say well I'll call TVs mulitiple shades of grey.

He might have.

Unlikely he actually named it.


I always refer to it as 'monochrome'.

TV licensing call it a Black and white TV licence

And then printed it on green paper.

--
bert

In article , Bill Taylor
scribeth thus
On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 00:22:39 +0000, tony sayer
wrote:

In article , Max
Demian scribeth thus
On 01/02/2017 17:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
RobertL wrote:
On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 12:50:08 AM UTC, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , NY
wrote:

It is generally accepted that human hearing is 20-20,000 Hz
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_range and many other sources)
and diminishes with age.

For those who go on about how good FM radio is they should note it
doesn't go anywhere near 20 kHz. ;-)

It goes to 16 kHz which is quite close.

They chose to cut it there so they coudl fit in eth 19 kHz pilot tone
and then use the bandwidth up to 38 kHz for th stereo difference signal.

Yup. They degraded the mono performance to squeeze in stereo. Nothing new
under the sun.

How do that degrade the mono performance then?..


The deviation has to be reduced to allow for the stereo component, so
signal to noise ratio is reduced slightly for mono listeners. No doubt
the PP was thinking that the bandwidth was wider before stereo as
there was no explicit filtering - but there wasn't any meaningful
signal above 15kHz anyway, especially if you didn't live in the SE.

Made not a lot of odds the S/N is very good anyway assuming, and this is
the bit that rarely happens anymore, a decent input signal i.e. roof
aerial and all that..

Quite right about the studio to TX feeds the signals were very much up
to what the olde postal orifice could manage;!..


May they realised that few adults could hear above 15 kHz, and children
don't design radio transmission standards.

Also, apparently, they were experimenting with multiplexing of various
sorts since the early days of FM:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM_broadcasting#Stereo_FM


Yes indeed there were, the Zenith GE system isn't that bad in fact for
what it is it does work very well.

Least they can't bugger it about and squeeze the bit rates and make it
low quality Mono;!..

No, but they can bugger about with the dynamic range.

Thats a much wider illness nowadays than radio;(..
--
Tony Sayer

In article , The Natural Philosopher
scribeth thus
On 02/02/17 00:22, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Max
Demian scribeth thus
On 01/02/2017 17:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
RobertL wrote:
On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 12:50:08 AM UTC, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , NY
wrote:

It is generally accepted that human hearing is 20-20,000 Hz
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_range and many other sources)
and diminishes with age.

For those who go on about how good FM radio is they should note it
doesn't go anywhere near 20 kHz. ;-)

It goes to 16 kHz which is quite close.

They chose to cut it there so they coudl fit in eth 19 kHz pilot tone
and then use the bandwidth up to 38 kHz for th stereo difference signal.

Yup. They degraded the mono performance to squeeze in stereo. Nothing new
under the sun.

How do that degrade the mono performance then?..

You needed a steep rolloff at 16Khz and a deep notch at 19Khz applied to
the audio before adding in the pilot tone and subcarrier.
19Khz.

Yes except that there wasn't much coming in above 15 k anyway..

However what really screwed FM was going down to 100Khz channel spacing
with 200Khz in any local area.

You really needed wideband IF to get decent stereos at high frequencies,
and the sharp skirted IF filters needed to reject adjacent channels were
noticeably worse when applied :-(

Yes but even so given a decent input signal then it could be very good
and a decent well designed tuner, now the former is the real problem no
one spends on a decent aerial anymore.

Digital should and could be better.

Tell us what we don't know guv;!..


--
Tony Sayer

On Wednesday, 1 February 2017 16:59:06 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
That could well be. However, you didn't work in TV all your working
life like me. And I can assure you that the percentage of gay men
working in the design department was little different from the average.

working in TV in the middle agaes as you did doesn;t mean a lot as
there weren't many gay men were there.

Have you any figures which prove conclusively there were less
homosexuals at any particular point in time?

No, how would you get that info go back in time.

You've just stated there were less gay men back in time. Of course there
would be less given the smaller population.

So there's nothing wrong with my statement then was there.
in rome it was quite common for a man to have a younger male for sex.
That didn't mean you were gay though.
In a lot of muslim countires you are only gay if yuo recive penatration for another male, if you're the one doing the penatrating your not gay.

Reminds me of a joke by an asutrailan comedian who's name I can't remmeber.
He's heavy metal rock sort of person if that helps.



I'd have thought they'd
be pretty much the same percentage wise, but if you make being gay
illegal and punishable you might not get a very truthful responce from
those you ask.

Quite. But that's not what you said.

Correct, and I am right, there were less gay men in the past.
I doubt adam was gay ;-) and he wsas the first man wasn't he :-)


Even Alan Turin wasn't gay or identified as gay by the masses at the
time just like there;s few gay footballers.

Ah. What you mean is there were many fewer who admitted to being
homosexual, or having homosexual feelings. A very different matter.

Well spotted. You may have also found that during those times less
people known about such things I have a friend tonight visiting, when we
first met 1994 she was a girl, she has had the hormones and everyone
she meets assumes he is a male, then they work out he's a gay male. They
have no idea he has a virgina.

Medical treatment to 'change sex' is a relatively recent thing. And very
little to do with being gay or not.

It has a lot to do with what's meant by gay.
When he was a girl no one thought she was gay when kissinly cuddling a male.
Now when he's seen like that with a male they see him as gay.

He has avery close friend who's going through the same being born female.
He was a male stripper up until a few months ago. He used dildos down the pants so never went totally naked and only performned in gay strip joints both here and in the states.
Are ladyboys gay ? I don't think they are.

On Wednesday, 1 February 2017 17:24:55 UTC, bm wrote:
Christ on a bike, traics and virginas.


Did he have them too amazing isn't it.

Do you know about the millipede and 4 penisies .

I wonder if jesus did.