I read here some weeks ago that the installation of a Smart Meter was
not mandatory, but I have just received a notice about the impending
installation of a water meter in Essex.

It includes this note:

"Do I have to have a meter?

Yes, where technically possible. The Secretary of State for the
Environment has approved our plan to meter customers' properties
because we are operating in an area designated as being under severe
water stress."

In this case, as the place is subject to limited occupation, say
about one week per month on average, having metering may well be
advantageous, and I have the option of remaining on the old payment
system for up to two years.

--
Davey.

On Wednesday, 11 January 2017 11:54:43 UTC, Davey wrote:
I read here some weeks ago that the installation of a Smart Meter was
not mandatory, but I have just received a notice about the impending
installation of a water meter in Essex.

It doesn;t say it's a smart meter though, so maybe it won't be smart.


It includes this note:

"Do I have to have a meter?

Yes, where technically possible. The Secretary of State for the
Environment has approved our plan to meter customers' properties
because we are operating in an area designated as being under severe
water stress."

In this case, as the place is subject to limited occupation, say
about one week per month on average, having metering may well be
advantageous, and I have the option of remaining on the old payment
system for up to two years.

--
Davey.

Davey wrote:

I read here some weeks ago that the installation of a Smart Meter was
not mandatory, but I have just received a notice about the impending
installation of a water meter in Essex.

Is it a water meter, or a smart water meter?

A few years ago Severn Trent had a division producing smart water
meters. By the time I got smart gas/elec meters and was interested to
know if they could fit a smart water meter, they'd flogged that division
off, and I think the main company became USA based, and now we just have
S****er in the UK and the consumer division doesn't have the option of
installing one.

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 12:15:24 +0000
Andy Burns wrote:

Davey wrote:

I read here some weeks ago that the installation of a Smart Meter
was not mandatory, but I have just received a notice about the
impending installation of a water meter in Essex.

Is it a water meter, or a smart water meter?

A few years ago Severn Trent had a division producing smart water
meters. By the time I got smart gas/elec meters and was interested
to know if they could fit a smart water meter, they'd flogged that
division off, and I think the main company became USA based, and now
we just have S****er in the UK and the consumer division doesn't have
the option of installing one.



It doesn't use the term 'Smart', but it does say that it will use
Automatic Meter Reading Technology, "allowing the company to read the
meter by just driving past the property". I guess this qualifies as a
Smart Meter.

How they install this is going to be interesting. The five flats'
supplies split, with 'Y's, inside a pipe chase, which is just big enough
for the pipes, but hardly for meters as well. Outside the property
would meter the whole property, not individual flats.

--
Davey.

On 11-Jan-17 12:27 PM, Davey wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 12:15:24 +0000
Andy Burns wrote:

Davey wrote:

I read here some weeks ago that the installation of a Smart Meter
was not mandatory, but I have just received a notice about the
impending installation of a water meter in Essex.

Is it a water meter, or a smart water meter?

A few years ago Severn Trent had a division producing smart water
meters. By the time I got smart gas/elec meters and was interested
to know if they could fit a smart water meter, they'd flogged that
division off, and I think the main company became USA based, and now
we just have S****er in the UK and the consumer division doesn't have
the option of installing one.



It doesn't use the term 'Smart', but it does say that it will use
Automatic Meter Reading Technology, "allowing the company to read the
meter by just driving past the property". I guess this qualifies as a
Smart Meter.

How they install this is going to be interesting. The five flats'
supplies split, with 'Y's, inside a pipe chase, which is just big enough
for the pipes, but hardly for meters as well. Outside the property
would meter the whole property, not individual flats.


In some flats I know, the meters are installed in each flat, where the
supply enters the flat.

--
--

Colin Bignell

When they managed to concrete up my last water meter in the footway due to
the very efficient contractor doing it, they put in a smart water meter
which apparently can be read by just driving by it in a car. However I am
told it still has a dial or display I can look at. I told them that I was
blind so it hardly matters, but if the readings go wrong I might ask to be
informed how to log in and check it!
As for leccy meters, I'm being told that all properties will have to have
smart meters by the end of 2020, oh good can I have one now, no, they cannot
cope with enconomy rates yet, Huh? I'd sack the designers.

Apparently if you are in some god forsaken outflung place which has leccy
but not much else you can still keep the old meter until a solution is found
to communicate to it.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Davey" wrote in message
news
I read here some weeks ago that the installation of a Smart Meter was
not mandatory, but I have just received a notice about the impending
installation of a water meter in Essex.

It includes this note:

"Do I have to have a meter?

Yes, where technically possible. The Secretary of State for the
Environment has approved our plan to meter customers' properties
because we are operating in an area designated as being under severe
water stress."

In this case, as the place is subject to limited occupation, say
about one week per month on average, having metering may well be
advantageous, and I have the option of remaining on the old payment
system for up to two years.

--
Davey.

Davey wrote:
I read here some weeks ago that the installation of a Smart Meter was
not mandatory, but I have just received a notice about the impending
installation of a water meter in Essex.

It includes this note:

"Do I have to have a meter?

Yes, where technically possible. The Secretary of State for the
Environment has approved our plan to meter customers' properties
because we are operating in an area designated as being under severe
water stress."

In this case, as the place is subject to limited occupation, say
about one week per month on average, having metering may well be
advantageous, and I have the option of remaining on the old payment
system for up to two years.



I've had a meter inside the house for 30 plus years voluntarily due to a
relatively large house with low occupancy.

A couple of years back we all got letter saying they were converting the
whole road to meters and I expected us to get a new one in the street so
they could be all remotely read.

However we were "passed over" for the compulsory meters as we already
had one. Trouble is that the meter reader has to call every 6 months to
read ours manually. Were is the logic in that? Minimal saving on not
giving us a new street mounted meter - given that the contractors were
in the road anyway and still having to pay Siemens for their meter
reading service.
Ironically I am a Siemens pensioner (I worked for a completely different
part of Siemens) so indirectly Southern Water are helping to contribute
to my pension.

What we could do with is a smart water board!

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 12:32:59 +0000
Nightjar wrote:

On 11-Jan-17 12:27 PM, Davey wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 12:15:24 +0000
Andy Burns wrote:

Davey wrote:

I read here some weeks ago that the installation of a Smart Meter
was not mandatory, but I have just received a notice about the
impending installation of a water meter in Essex.

Is it a water meter, or a smart water meter?

A few years ago Severn Trent had a division producing smart water
meters. By the time I got smart gas/elec meters and was interested
to know if they could fit a smart water meter, they'd flogged that
division off, and I think the main company became USA based, and
now we just have S****er in the UK and the consumer division
doesn't have the option of installing one.



It doesn't use the term 'Smart', but it does say that it will use
Automatic Meter Reading Technology, "allowing the company to read
the meter by just driving past the property". I guess this
qualifies as a Smart Meter.

How they install this is going to be interesting. The five flats'
supplies split, with 'Y's, inside a pipe chase, which is just big
enough for the pipes, but hardly for meters as well. Outside the
property would meter the whole property, not individual flats.


In some flats I know, the meters are installed in each flat, where
the supply enters the flat.


In my case, that is buried somewhere in the walls or under the floor!

--
Davey.

In message , Davey
writes
It doesn't use the term 'Smart', but it does say that it will use
Automatic Meter Reading Technology, "allowing the company to read the
meter by just driving past the property". I guess this qualifies as a
Smart Meter.

When I was first offered a water meter years ago, I rang NW Water and
asked whether I would be able to read it myself. They didn't seem to
understand the question and I never heard from them again.

I am on a quarterly bill arrangement with electricity. They sent a bill
at the usual date, which I paid. Then a month later they sent an
additional estimated bill to me and also one to an ageing relative,
which distressed her.
I emailed asking why we had a supplementary bill, when the contract said
quarterly. They replied just saying the bill was due and should be paid.
I then exchanged 3 more emails with them asking why the bill and why
they still hadn't answered the question. At that point I decided life
was too short, checked the meter myself and paid. Meanwhile the relative
rang them a few times and finally got through. She said the nice young
man said it must be a mistake and she should not pay. She doesn't seem
to have been hauled off to court yet.

I'd be much happier if I felt I was dealing with a vaguely competent
organisation.
--
Bill

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 14:58:23 +0000
Bill wrote:

When I was first offered a water meter years ago, I rang NW Water and
asked whether I would be able to read it myself. They didn't seem to
understand the question and I never heard from them again.

This company, Affinity Water, shows a meter in the bumph which has a
readable display. There is no guarantee that that is the meter which
will be installed, of course.
Due to the afore-mentioned installation puzzle, it will be interesting
to find out if it even visible, let alone readable.

--
Davey.

On 11-Jan-17 2:45 PM, Davey wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 12:32:59 +0000
Nightjar wrote:

On 11-Jan-17 12:27 PM, Davey wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 12:15:24 +0000
Andy Burns wrote:

Davey wrote:

I read here some weeks ago that the installation of a Smart Meter
was not mandatory, but I have just received a notice about the
impending installation of a water meter in Essex.

Is it a water meter, or a smart water meter?

A few years ago Severn Trent had a division producing smart water
meters. By the time I got smart gas/elec meters and was interested
to know if they could fit a smart water meter, they'd flogged that
division off, and I think the main company became USA based, and
now we just have S****er in the UK and the consumer division
doesn't have the option of installing one.



It doesn't use the term 'Smart', but it does say that it will use
Automatic Meter Reading Technology, "allowing the company to read
the meter by just driving past the property". I guess this
qualifies as a Smart Meter.

How they install this is going to be interesting. The five flats'
supplies split, with 'Y's, inside a pipe chase, which is just big
enough for the pipes, but hardly for meters as well. Outside the
property would meter the whole property, not individual flats.


In some flats I know, the meters are installed in each flat, where
the supply enters the flat.


In my case, that is buried somewhere in the walls or under the floor!


Do you not have a stopcock in the flat? If you do, it would be installed
just before that.

--
--

Colin Bignell

You can keep the old style mechanical meter wherever you live. Smart are
not compulsory.

--
F

On 11/01/2017 13:24, Brian Gaff wrote:
Apparently if you are in some god forsaken outflung place which has leccy
but not much else you can still keep the old meter until a solution is found
to communicate to it.

On 11/01/2017 12:27, Davey wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 12:15:24 +0000
Andy Burns wrote:

Davey wrote:

I read here some weeks ago that the installation of a Smart Meter
was not mandatory, but I have just received a notice about the
impending installation of a water meter in Essex.

Is it a water meter, or a smart water meter?

A few years ago Severn Trent had a division producing smart water
meters. By the time I got smart gas/elec meters and was interested
to know if they could fit a smart water meter, they'd flogged that
division off, and I think the main company became USA based, and now
we just have S****er in the UK and the consumer division doesn't have
the option of installing one.



It doesn't use the term 'Smart', but it does say that it will use
Automatic Meter Reading Technology, "allowing the company to read the
meter by just driving past the property". I guess this qualifies as a
Smart Meter.

This is what we have, and have had for a couple or three years now. It
has the usual mileometer style readout but has an add-on that can be
read remotely.

Saves me ringing them up to correct their hopeless estimates as I used
to have to.

--
F

On 11/01/2017 15:12, Davey wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 14:58:23 +0000
Bill wrote:

When I was first offered a water meter years ago, I rang NW Water and
asked whether I would be able to read it myself. They didn't seem to
understand the question and I never heard from them again.

This company, Affinity Water, shows a meter in the bumph which has a
readable display. There is no guarantee that that is the meter which
will be installed, of course.
Due to the afore-mentioned installation puzzle, it will be interesting
to find out if it even visible, let alone readable.


Water meter that can be remotely read are common.
There is a cable to a plastic dome somewhere on the outside of the
building and they can read it from there.
Flats often have a bank of such terminations so that all the meters can
be rad in one place.
They sometimes fit that type of meter in the road, its why there is a
plastic cap in the centre of the covers in the pavement.

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 18:50:56 +0000
dennis@home wrote:

On 11/01/2017 15:12, Davey wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 14:58:23 +0000
Bill wrote:

When I was first offered a water meter years ago, I rang NW Water
and asked whether I would be able to read it myself. They didn't
seem to understand the question and I never heard from them
again.

This company, Affinity Water, shows a meter in the bumph which has a
readable display. There is no guarantee that that is the meter which
will be installed, of course.
Due to the afore-mentioned installation puzzle, it will be
interesting to find out if it even visible, let alone readable.


Water meter that can be remotely read are common.
There is a cable to a plastic dome somewhere on the outside of the
building and they can read it from there.
Flats often have a bank of such terminations so that all the meters
can be rad in one place.
They sometimes fit that type of meter in the road, its why there is a
plastic cap in the centre of the covers in the pavement.


But six hours ago I posted in this thread:
'but it does say that it will use Automatic Meter Reading Technology,
"allowing the company to read the meter by just driving past the
property".'

--
Davey.

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 17:19:09 +0000
Nightjar wrote:

On 11-Jan-17 2:45 PM, Davey wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 12:32:59 +0000
Nightjar wrote:

On 11-Jan-17 12:27 PM, Davey wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 12:15:24 +0000
Andy Burns wrote:

Davey wrote:

I read here some weeks ago that the installation of a Smart
Meter was not mandatory, but I have just received a notice
about the impending installation of a water meter in Essex.

Is it a water meter, or a smart water meter?

A few years ago Severn Trent had a division producing smart water
meters. By the time I got smart gas/elec meters and was
interested to know if they could fit a smart water meter, they'd
flogged that division off, and I think the main company became
USA based, and now we just have S****er in the UK and the
consumer division doesn't have the option of installing one.



It doesn't use the term 'Smart', but it does say that it will use
Automatic Meter Reading Technology, "allowing the company to read
the meter by just driving past the property". I guess this
qualifies as a Smart Meter.

How they install this is going to be interesting. The five flats'
supplies split, with 'Y's, inside a pipe chase, which is just big
enough for the pipes, but hardly for meters as well. Outside the
property would meter the whole property, not individual flats.


In some flats I know, the meters are installed in each flat, where
the supply enters the flat.


In my case, that is buried somewhere in the walls or under the
floor!

Do you not have a stopcock in the flat? If you do, it would be
installed just before that.


Good question. I'll look next time I'm there. If so, it is probably in
the airing cupboard, where all the plumbing lives. It's worth finding
it anyway, just in case of emergency.

--
Davey.

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 13:24:55 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

When they managed to concrete up my last water meter in the footway
due to
the very efficient contractor doing it, they put in a smart water
meter
which apparently can be read by just driving by it in a car.
However I am
told it still has a dial or display I can look at. I told them that
I was
blind so it hardly matters, but if the readings go wrong I might
ask to be
informed how to log in and check it!
As for leccy meters, I'm being told that all properties will have
to have
smart meters by the end of 2020, oh good can I have one now, no,
they cannot
cope with enconomy rates yet, Huh? I'd sack the designers.

A little while ago, when I lived in a place with Economy 7, I tried
to find out how 'smart' meters might fit in (mainly as a matter of
interest), but no-one seemed to know. Clearly there are important
questions involved, such as whether the peak times will be the same -
if under control of the electricity suppliers they might be too short
or too long - and whether, as currently, off peak appliances (such as
storage heaters and immersion heaters) will be controlled remotely.
Also, if the user doesn't know when off-peak times are, how is he to
know when he can take advantage of the cheaper rates to, for example,
run the washing machine?

--
Max Demian

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 17:19:09 +0000, Nightjar
wrote:
On 11-Jan-17 2:45 PM, Davey wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 12:32:59 +0000
Nightjar wrote:

In some flats I know, the meters are installed in each flat,
where
the supply enters the flat.

In my case, that is buried somewhere in the walls or under the
floor!

Do you not have a stopcock in the flat? If you do, it would be
installed
just before that.

s/cock/tap/

Cocks are banned as they can burst the supply pipes (apart from ball
cocks of course).

--
Max Demian

on 11/01/2017, dennis@home supposed :
Water meter that can be remotely read are common.
There is a cable to a plastic dome somewhere on the outside of the building
and they can read it from there.
Flats often have a bank of such terminations so that all the meters can be
rad in one place.
They sometimes fit that type of meter in the road, its why there is a plastic
cap in the centre of the covers in the pavement.

No dome on our meter and it can be remotely read. It just has the brass
part with the two pipes - the base, then the digits plus a plastic
cased section which are able to swivel on the base to it to be set to
an angle where it can be read.

YW assured us it could be read remotely from the road at the end of our
drive, through the house walls to where it is located at the back of
the house.

On 11/01/2017 18:50, dennis@home wrote:


Water meter that can be remotely read are common.
There is a cable to a plastic dome somewhere on the outside of the
building and they can read it from there.
Flats often have a bank of such terminations so that all the meters can
be rad in one place.
They sometimes fit that type of meter in the road, its why there is a
plastic cap in the centre of the covers in the pavement.

Thames fitted that technology around the start of the century. Then
ceased to do so around 2008 when the remote readers failed one after the
other. We had one. Thames replaced it with a
meter-cum-stopcock-in-the-pavement. That is still their default. With
no plastic cap. But readable other than by eyeball (and by eyeball).



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 11/01/17 18:50, dennis@home wrote:

They sometimes fit that type of meter in the road, its why there is a
plastic cap in the centre of the covers in the pavement.


You know, I have been wondering what that was all about for some time...

Well I think that depends on the company. They obviously don't want to
employ readers and they don't trust the user to read them either. so in
effect you will not find anyone wishing to supply you unless you have one
after 2020.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"F" news@nowhere wrote in message
...
You can keep the old style mechanical meter wherever you live. Smart are
not compulsory.

--
F

On 11/01/2017 13:24, Brian Gaff wrote:
Apparently if you are in some god forsaken outflung place which has
leccy
but not much else you can still keep the old meter until a solution is
found
to communicate to it.

On 11-Jan-17 7:56 PM, Max Demian wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 17:19:09 +0000, Nightjar wrote:
On 11-Jan-17 2:45 PM, Davey wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 12:32:59 +0000
Nightjar wrote:

In some flats I know, the meters are installed in each flat,
where
the supply enters the flat.

In my case, that is buried somewhere in the walls or under the
floor!

Do you not have a stopcock in the flat? If you do, it would be
installed
just before that.

s/cock/tap/

Cocks are banned as they can burst the supply pipes (apart from ball
cocks of course).


If you want to be pedantic, the regulations require the fitting of a
stopvalve.

--
--

Colin Bignell

It doesn't depend on the company. It's how it is. You don't have to
accept a smart meter, you can insist on a mechanical one.

--
F

On 12/01/2017 08:25, Brian Gaff wrote:
Well I think that depends on the company. They obviously don't want to
employ readers and they don't trust the user to read them either. so in
effect you will not find anyone wishing to supply you unless you have one
after 2020.
Brian

On 11/01/2017 19:56, Max Demian wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 17:19:09 +0000, Nightjar wrote:
On 11-Jan-17 2:45 PM, Davey wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 12:32:59 +0000
Nightjar wrote:

In some flats I know, the meters are installed in each flat,
where
the supply enters the flat.

In my case, that is buried somewhere in the walls or under the
floor!

Do you not have a stopcock in the flat? If you do, it would be
installed
just before that.

s/cock/tap/

Cocks are banned as they can burst the supply pipes (apart from ball
cocks of course).


What meaning of "cock" are you using and who has banned them?

I ask as "stopcock" has been used for the past 400 years to mean a valve
for turning off the water supply (or where context requires the valve
and the box etc it's in). And is used freely in legislation other than
the regs to which Colin Bignell referred.





[2]
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 12/01/2017 09:56, Robin wrote:
On 11/01/2017 19:56, Max Demian wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 17:19:09 +0000, Nightjar wrote:

Do you not have a stopcock in the flat? If you do, it would be
installed
just before that.

s/cock/tap/

Cocks are banned as they can burst the supply pipes (apart from ball
cocks of course).

What meaning of "cock" are you using and who has banned them?

I ask as "stopcock" has been used for the past 400 years to mean a valve
for turning off the water supply (or where context requires the valve
and the box etc it's in). And is used freely in legislation other than
the regs to which Colin Bignell referred.

I'm thinking of the ones (like taps on beer barrels &c.) which go from
fully on to fully off in a quarter of a turn.

--
Max Demian

On 12/01/2017 09:29, Nightjar wrote:
On 11-Jan-17 7:56 PM, Max Demian wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 17:19:09 +0000, Nightjar wrote:

Do you not have a stopcock in the flat? If you do, it would be
installed
just before that.

s/cock/tap/

Cocks are banned as they can burst the supply pipes (apart from ball
cocks of course).


If you want to be pedantic

Oh! I do!

the regulations require the fitting of a
stopvalve.

So what about those taps with long levers used in hospitals &c.? They
work like normal taps (I think), but go from fully on to fully off in a
trice. How do supply pipes cope with them?

--
Max Demian

On 11/01/2017 11:54, Davey wrote:
I read here some weeks ago that the installation of a Smart Meter was
not mandatory, but I have just received a notice about the impending
installation of a water meter in Essex.

It includes this note:

"Do I have to have a meter?

Yes, where technically possible. The Secretary of State for the
Environment has approved our plan to meter customers' properties
because we are operating in an area designated as being under severe
water stress."

In this case, as the place is subject to limited occupation, say
about one week per month on average, having metering may well be
advantageous, and I have the option of remaining on the old payment
system for up to two years.

Some 2 years ago my water supplier wrote to me to inform that they will
be fitting a water meter.

They came along my street fitting meters but not mine as my stop tap was
too old? to be converted (house built in '37)

Letter through the door said they would be back in January to fit the
meter, this was January 2016.

Maybe I could have a little earner piping my water to my two neighbours
who are metered!

On 12-Jan-17 12:25 PM, Max Demian wrote:
....
So what about those taps with long levers used in hospitals &c.? They
work like normal taps (I think), but go from fully on to fully off in a
trice. How do supply pipes cope with them?

Perfectly well IME. I used that type of tap on my cleanroom entry area
washbasins for over 20 years without any problems.



--
--

Colin Bignell