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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Smart Meters
Smart meters to save power customers £64 each across Wales, report says - 19 April 2013 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22205299 But surely if that is a £64 overpayment you get it back either as a lump sum refund or by a £64 reduction in your payments for the next year. There is *no* £64 overall saving. All you may have lost is the interest on £64 but at current *savings*, ie not current account, rates that is about a quid. More fecking spin... It also mentions the privacy issues that half hourly or even daily readings raise. Warning over smart meters privacy risk - 12 June 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18407340 The default should be readings only required for billing purposes. As a country we have been happy with quarterly readings for a long time... If people wish to opt in to a higher frequency of reading then that is fine but only as an opt in. With half hour intervals it would be very clear when the property is actively occupied. The bills need to have the reading frequency on them as well, so when you take over a property you know what you have and can get it changed if required. I bet there is still a possibilty for the meter to do one thing and the billing system to think another though. -- Cheers Dave. |
#2
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Smart Meters
In article o.uk,
"Dave Liquorice" writes: Smart meters to save power customers £64 each across Wales, report says - 19 April 2013 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22205299 Smart metering, as currently proposed, is entirely for the benefit of the suppliers, not you. With an effective industry regulator, it could have been the other way around. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
#3
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Smart Meters
On 19/04/13 14:19, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article o.uk, "Dave Liquorice" writes: Smart meters to save power customers £64 each across Wales, report says - 19 April 2013 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22205299 Smart metering, as currently proposed, is entirely for the benefit of the suppliers, not you. Its a desperate measure by the EU to make renewable energy appear to work, by removing anyone from the grid they dont like, when the sun goes behind a cloud or the wind stops blowing. Naturally a fully paid up Party Membership Card will be the best insurance. With an effective industry regulator, it could have been the other way around. -- Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers. |
#4
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Smart Meters
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message ... In article o.uk, "Dave Liquorice" writes: Smart meters to save power customers £64 each across Wales, report says - 19 April 2013 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22205299 Smart metering, as currently proposed, is entirely for the benefit of the suppliers, not you. Maybe, but it can be useful. We recently changed to a smart meter at the burger joint because we could never get a 'real' reading done, as we are not open during the day. It was a total pain to receive a bill that had been grossly over-estimated every month, and to then have to get it corrected and re-issued. The smart meter has sorted that. Mind you, last month, they reckoned that they couldn't get a signal from it, so booked a service call. The guy came out and checked it, and said that he didn't know what they were talking about, as it was working just fine ... Arfa With an effective industry regulator, it could have been the other way around. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
#5
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Smart Meters
On 19/04/2013 14:19, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article o.uk, "Dave Liquorice" writes: Smart meters to save power customers £64 each across Wales, report says - 19 April 2013 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22205299 Smart metering, as currently proposed, is entirely for the benefit of the suppliers, not you. With an effective industry regulator, it could have been the other way around. Agreed, however 'smart' the meter is it is not on your side. Couldn't a really smart meter be on the customers' side and be empowered to negotiate on behalf of the customer the best tariff on an hour by hour basis. No obscure 'confusion marketing' deals, just give me your price for the next hour/day/week? (with a regulated obligation to supply). Chris K |
#6
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Smart Meters
On 19/04/13 16:23, Chris K wrote:
On 19/04/2013 14:19, Andrew Gabriel wrote: In article o.uk, "Dave Liquorice" writes: Smart meters to save power customers £64 each across Wales, report says - 19 April 2013 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22205299 Smart metering, as currently proposed, is entirely for the benefit of the suppliers, not you. With an effective industry regulator, it could have been the other way around. Agreed, however 'smart' the meter is it is not on your side. Couldn't a really smart meter be on the customers' side and be empowered to negotiate on behalf of the customer the best tariff on an hour by hour basis. No obscure 'confusion marketing' deals, just give me your price for the next hour/day/week? (with a regulated obligation to supply). I smell the 'raspberry pi meter' in the offing... Its a lovely thought.. Chris K -- Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers. |
#7
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Smart Meters
On Fri, 19 Apr 2013 15:19:27 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:
Mind you, last month, they reckoned that they couldn't get a signal from it, so booked a service call. The guy came out and checked it, and said that he didn't know what they were talking about, as it was working just fine ... Gets man in to look at seals etc after the computer at your suppliers has sounded an alarm bell about readings being consistently below what they estimate you should have used... If they come to fit one here it will be interesting if they rely on 2G. The meters are inside a windowless boiler room with thick stone walls on the "wrong" side of the house. There is no mobile signal in there... If they want to piggy back the broadband they can pay a rental to do so. I think 5% off the total bill (inc VAT) might be enough but there is no guarantee what so ever that the connection will be there. -- Cheers Dave. |
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And what time do you use energy? maybe a staggered bill for everybody so 7-10pm costs more.
ALso do the council know you are not living in your house? Maybe you claim single person occupancy but you use a lot of energy. Maybe you moved into your house for a year or to on the council register and then sold up without using any energy. Are you renting without declaring it? maybe you used a lot of electrcity while your credit card was used abroad. Maybe you just forgot to mention any of the above innocently because you couldn't be bothered with the 3rd degree and new paper work. £10,000 court bills and threats of prison for you. All very scary stuff. I have always wondered why people would want a smart meter, is there anyone every convinced they should get one to save the polar bears? How can fitting a new expensive item so I can say "yes the kettle uses power" be a benefit to me? |
#9
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Smart Meters
In article ,
Chris K writes: On 19/04/2013 14:19, Andrew Gabriel wrote: In article o.uk, "Dave Liquorice" writes: Smart meters to save power customers £64 each across Wales, report says - 19 April 2013 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22205299 Smart metering, as currently proposed, is entirely for the benefit of the suppliers, not you. With an effective industry regulator, it could have been the other way around. Agreed, however 'smart' the meter is it is not on your side. Couldn't a really smart meter be on the customers' side and be empowered to negotiate on behalf of the customer the best tariff on an hour by hour basis. No obscure 'confusion marketing' deals, just give me your price for the next hour/day/week? (with a regulated obligation to supply). Yes indeed. Also things like: "I need to run my washing machine sometime in the next 48 hours. Who's going to give me the best price, and at what time?" So you might try and buy something like your base load (at 500W, say) for a low fixed price, and then you can choose to buy a peak load (like a morning shower) from someone else who is more competitive (and more able) to handle that sort of short burst, but probably at a higher price. Instead, all it's likely to bring you is the ability of the supplier to remotely cut off your supply, or more likely a hacker who gets in to the supply's computers doing it, possibly as part of switching off millions of the supplier's customers. I would like to see the disconnect rights passed over to an independant process that requires court action first, so the suppliers can get their hands on that switch. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
#10
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Smart Meters
"Tim Streater" wrote in message ... In article , "Arfa Daily" wrote: "Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message ... In article o.uk, "Dave Liquorice" writes: Smart meters to save power customers £64 each across Wales, report says - 19 April 2013 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22205299 Smart metering, as currently proposed, is entirely for the benefit of the suppliers, not you. Maybe, but it can be useful. We recently changed to a smart meter at the burger joint because we could never get a 'real' reading done, as we are not open during the day. It was a total pain to receive a bill that had been grossly over-estimated every month, and to then have to get it corrected and re-issued. Why don't you read the meter every month and submit the readings online. I do that for our village hall. -- Tim Ha ! Have you ever tried making sense of the readings on a modern electronic three phase meter ? It tells you just about everything from how much gas you're using, to the mean distance to the sun ... Apart from that, remembering to do it every month is as much of a pain as getting a wrong bill. The smart meter is magic in that it doesn't need reading, and you get a correct bill every time :-) Arfa "That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689 |
#11
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Smart Meters
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message ll.co.uk... On Fri, 19 Apr 2013 15:19:27 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote: Mind you, last month, they reckoned that they couldn't get a signal from it, so booked a service call. The guy came out and checked it, and said that he didn't know what they were talking about, as it was working just fine ... Gets man in to look at seals etc after the computer at your suppliers has sounded an alarm bell about readings being consistently below what they estimate you should have used... That's a possibility that I hadn't considered, but a valid thought, as they always did manage to way over-estimate what we were actually using. Although interestingly, they way *under* -estimated what we were *going* to be using when they set the original tariff. After we complained that we were paying too much, they re-negotiated the rate, and knocked it down by a third ... Arfa If they come to fit one here it will be interesting if they rely on 2G. The meters are inside a windowless boiler room with thick stone walls on the "wrong" side of the house. There is no mobile signal in there... If they want to piggy back the broadband they can pay a rental to do so. I think 5% off the total bill (inc VAT) might be enough but there is no guarantee what so ever that the connection will be there. -- Cheers Dave. |
#12
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Smart Meters
On 20/04/13 02:02, Arfa Daily wrote:
"Tim Streater" wrote in message ... In article , "Arfa Daily" wrote: "Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message ... In article o.uk, "Dave Liquorice" writes: Smart meters to save power customers £64 each across Wales, report says - 19 April 2013 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22205299 Smart metering, as currently proposed, is entirely for the benefit of the suppliers, not you. Maybe, but it can be useful. We recently changed to a smart meter at the burger joint because we could never get a 'real' reading done, as we are not open during the day. It was a total pain to receive a bill that had been grossly over-estimated every month, and to then have to get it corrected and re-issued. Why don't you read the meter every month and submit the readings online. I do that for our village hall. -- Tim Ha ! Have you ever tried making sense of the readings on a modern electronic three phase meter ? It tells you just about everything from how much gas you're using, to the mean distance to the sun ... golly. I didnt know you could get 3 phase gas. Is the solid gas, liquid gas, and gaseous gas? Apart from that, remembering to do it every month is as much of a pain as getting a wrong bill. The smart meter is magic in that it doesn't need reading, and you get a correct bill every time :-) Arfa "That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689 -- Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers. |
#13
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Smart Meters
On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 02:39:02 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Ha ! Have you ever tried making sense of the readings on a modern electronic three phase meter ? It tells you just about everything from how much gas you're using, to the mean distance to the sun ... golly. I didnt know you could get 3 phase gas. Is the solid gas, liquid gas, and gaseous gas? No wonder he's fazed by it! -- Peter. The gods will stay away whilst religions hold sway |
#14
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Smart Meters
On Fri, 19 Apr 2013 16:23:42 +0100, Chris K wrote:
with a regulated obligation to supply That is not part of the legislation, it was an integral part of it for around 50 years but since 1990 no one has any obligation to supply electricity to an end consumer (same story with gas) Yet another legacy of the evil bitch Thatcher, the slimy little **** Cecil Parkinson and the retarded ****, later in the pay of Enron, John Wakeham. It's a 'free' energy market, a shining example of Thatcherism, greed, short termism and a **** you mentality. The only purpose of the UK customer is to bend over and take it up the arse without lubricant every quarter and hand over huge wodges of cash to the foreigners who now own the vast majority of generating capacity and distribution networks. -- |
#15
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Smart Meters
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ... On 20/04/13 02:02, Arfa Daily wrote: "Tim Streater" wrote in message ... In article , "Arfa Daily" wrote: "Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message ... In article o.uk, "Dave Liquorice" writes: Smart meters to save power customers £64 each across Wales, report says - 19 April 2013 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22205299 Smart metering, as currently proposed, is entirely for the benefit of the suppliers, not you. Maybe, but it can be useful. We recently changed to a smart meter at the burger joint because we could never get a 'real' reading done, as we are not open during the day. It was a total pain to receive a bill that had been grossly over-estimated every month, and to then have to get it corrected and re-issued. Why don't you read the meter every month and submit the readings online. I do that for our village hall. -- Tim Ha ! Have you ever tried making sense of the readings on a modern electronic three phase meter ? It tells you just about everything from how much gas you're using, to the mean distance to the sun ... golly. I didnt know you could get 3 phase gas. Is the solid gas, liquid gas, and gaseous gas? Yep ! Those are the three ... :-) Arfa Apart from that, remembering to do it every month is as much of a pain as getting a wrong bill. The smart meter is magic in that it doesn't need reading, and you get a correct bill every time :-) Arfa "That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689 -- Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers. |
#16
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Smart Meters
"The Other Mike" wrote in message ... On Fri, 19 Apr 2013 16:23:42 +0100, Chris K wrote: with a regulated obligation to supply That is not part of the legislation, it was an integral part of it for around 50 years but since 1990 no one has any obligation to supply electricity to an end consumer (same story with gas) Yet another legacy of the evil bitch Thatcher, the slimy little **** Cecil Parkinson and the retarded ****, later in the pay of Enron, John Wakeham. It's a 'free' energy market, a shining example of Thatcherism, greed, short termism and a **** you mentality. The only purpose of the UK customer is to bend over and take it up the arse without lubricant every quarter and hand over huge wodges of cash to the foreigners who now own the vast majority of generating capacity and distribution networks. Do I infer from the above that you didn't really take to Mrs T and her government, then ... ? d;-) Arfa |
#18
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Smart Meters
On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 15:33:46 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote: Do I infer from the above that you didn't really take to Mrs T and her government, then ... ? d;-) You could, not sure how you worked it out. Brewing up improved ice cream in the lab is by far the absolute pinnacle of her career. After that it was all downhill. If it had been an animal it would have been double bagged and chucked in a canal at birth. Stalin and Pol Pol were IMHO more acceptable leaders of their countries and did less long term damage than that, from the grave, the Bitch Thatcher, continues to inflict on this country . -- |
#19
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Smart Meters
On Apr 23, 12:03*pm, The Other Mike
wrote: On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 15:33:46 +0100, "Arfa Daily" wrote: Do I infer from the above that you didn't really take to Mrs T and her government, then ... ? * *d;-) You could, not sure how you worked it out. Brewing up improved ice cream in the lab is by far the absolute pinnacle of her career. After that it was all downhill. *If it had been an animal it would have been double bagged and chucked in a canal at birth. Stalin and Pol Pol were IMHO more acceptable leaders of their countries and did less long term damage than that, from the grave, the Bitch Thatcher, continues to inflict on this country . -- I take it you were a Trotski miner? |
#20
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Smart Meters
On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 11:34:52 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote: On Apr 23, 12:03*pm, The Other Mike wrote: On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 15:33:46 +0100, "Arfa Daily" wrote: Do I infer from the above that you didn't really take to Mrs T and her government, then ... ? * *d;-) You could, not sure how you worked it out. Brewing up improved ice cream in the lab is by far the absolute pinnacle of her career. After that it was all downhill. *If it had been an animal it would have been double bagged and chucked in a canal at birth. Stalin and Pol Pol were IMHO more acceptable leaders of their countries and did less long term damage than that, from the grave, the Bitch Thatcher, continues to inflict on this country . I take it you were a Trotski miner? You might assume that but you'd be very wrong. The nearest I came to Trotsky is owning a copy of No More Heroes by The Stranglers. -- |
#21
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Smart Meters
On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 12:03:03 +0100, The Other Mike
wrote: On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 15:33:46 +0100, "Arfa Daily" wrote: Do I infer from the above that you didn't really take to Mrs T and her government, then ... ? d;-) You could, not sure how you worked it out. Brewing up improved ice cream in the lab is by far the absolute pinnacle of her career. Improved from the manufacturers point of view, not the customer who ended up paying for more air. |
#22
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Smart Meters
"The Other Mike" wrote in message ... On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 15:33:46 +0100, "Arfa Daily" wrote: Do I infer from the above that you didn't really take to Mrs T and her government, then ... ? d;-) You could, not sure how you worked it out. I'm psychic ... Brewing up improved ice cream in the lab is by far the absolute pinnacle of her career. After that it was all downhill. If it had been an animal it would have been double bagged and chucked in a canal at birth. Stalin and Pol Pol were IMHO more acceptable leaders of their countries and did less long term damage than that, from the grave, the Bitch Thatcher, continues to inflict on this country . Awww. Now you're starting to sound all nostalgic about her ... I hope now that she's dead, people will finally move on and get over it. I'm sure that just as much vitriol and bile could be equally leveled at most, if not all of the Labour party Prime Ministers of the last 50 years or so Arfa |
#23
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Smart Meters
Arfa Daily :
I'm sure that just as much vitriol and bile could be equally leveled at most, if not all of the Labour party Prime Ministers of the last 50 years or so I really don't think so - otherwise it would be. -- Mike Barnes |
#24
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Smart Meters
On Apr 24, 7:26*am, Mike Barnes wrote:
Arfa Daily : I'm sure that just as much vitriol and bile could be equally leveled at most, if not all of the Labour party Prime Ministers of the last 50 years or so I really don't think so - otherwise it would be. -- Mike Barnes The real evil *******s were Harold Wilson and Calaghan who destroyed the economy as socialists always do. |
#25
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Smart Meters
On Apr 19, 11:16*am, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote: Smart meters to save power customers £64 each across Wales, report says - 19 April 2013 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22205299 But surely if that is a £64 overpayment you get it back either as a lump sum refund or by a £64 reduction in your payments for the next year. There is *no* £64 overall saving. All you may have lost is the interest on £64 but at current *savings*, ie not current account, rates that is about a quid. More fecking spin... It also mentions the privacy issues that half hourly or even daily readings raise. Warning over smart meters privacy risk - 12 June 2012http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18407340 The default should be readings only required for billing purposes. As a country we have been happy with quarterly readings for a long time... If people wish to opt in to a higher frequency of reading then that is fine but only as an opt in. With half hour intervals it would be very clear when the property is actively occupied. The bills need to have the reading frequency on them as well, so when you take over a property you know what you have and can get it changed if required. I bet there is still a possibilty for the meter to do one thing and the billing system to think another though. -- Cheers Dave. The real purpose of smart meters is yet to come. It is as part of a "Smart Grid" that will do lots more including control of thousands of micro generators. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_grid |
#26
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Smart Meters
On 24/04/2013 07:26, Mike Barnes wrote:
Arfa Daily : I'm sure that just as much vitriol and bile could be equally leveled at most, if not all of the Labour party Prime Ministers of the last 50 years or so I really don't think so - otherwise it would be. No-one else achieved anything that they can be remembered by. (go on - what did Blair do? really? Or Wilson? Or Churchill, excepting the war?) Whether you think what she achieved was good or bad is the only matter for debate. Andy |
#27
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Smart Meters
On 24/04/2013 09:48 Andy Champ wrote:
No-one else achieved anything that they can be remembered by. (go on - what did Blair do? really? Illegal war? -- F |
#28
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In article ,
Andy Champ wrote: On 24/04/2013 07:26, Mike Barnes wrote: Arfa Daily : I'm sure that just as much vitriol and bile could be equally leveled at most, if not all of the Labour party Prime Ministers of the last 50 years or so I really don't think so - otherwise it would be. No-one else achieved anything that they can be remembered by. (go on - what did Blair do? really? Weapons of Mass Destruction! Or Wilson? He wore a Gannex coat and made the owner of the firm who made them into a Lord -- From KT24 Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18 |
#29
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Smart Meters
On Wednesday 24 April 2013 09:48 Andy Champ wrote in uk.d-i-y:
On 24/04/2013 07:26, Mike Barnes wrote: Arfa Daily : I'm sure that just as much vitriol and bile could be equally leveled at most, if not all of the Labour party Prime Ministers of the last 50 years or so I really don't think so - otherwise it would be. No-one else achieved anything that they can be remembered by. (go on - what did Blair do? Wars. Privacy invasion. Nanny state. really? Or Wilson? Got me there... Or Churchill, excepting the war?) You cannot really except the war - it was rather the only thing going on. Whether you think what she achieved was good or bad is the only matter for debate. Agree. -- Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/ http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage Reading this on the web? See: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet |
#30
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Smart Meters
Mike Barnes wrote:
Arfa Daily : I'm sure that just as much vitriol and bile could be equally leveled at most, if not all of the Labour party Prime Ministers of the last 50 years or so I really don't think so - otherwise it would be. She was right wing, and the Labour PMs were left wing. The Left wing are very vocal in opposition, the right wing just get on with it, in general. A Labour PM has to *really* screw things up before the opposition get vocal. If Tory PM gets it slightly wrong,there's a whole industry geared up to get vocal and emotional about it. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
#31
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Smart Meters
On 24/04/2013 09:48, Andy Champ wrote:
On 24/04/2013 07:26, Mike Barnes wrote: Arfa Daily : I'm sure that just as much vitriol and bile could be equally leveled at most, if not all of the Labour party Prime Ministers of the last 50 years or so I really don't think so - otherwise it would be. No-one else achieved anything that they can be remembered by. (go on - what did Blair do? He raided the pension funds and caused the present pension fund deficit. He took billions out of the economy when they rigged the 3G license auctions and caused all the telecoms providers to delay their orders for about 2 years effectively allowing the Chinese to step in with cheap products and close telecoms manufacturing in the UK. He went to war over dubious claims of WMD and destabilised the middle east a bit more. What else do you need to know he was labour? really? Or Wilson? He snatched the school milk from secondary school pupils He had to get the IMF to intervene in the UK economy as he wrecked it. Or Churchill, excepting the war?) He lead the country that won. |
#32
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Smart Meters
In article om,
dennis@home wrote: On 24/04/2013 09:48, Andy Champ wrote: On 24/04/2013 07:26, Mike Barnes wrote: Arfa Daily : I'm sure that just as much vitriol and bile could be equally leveled at most, if not all of the Labour party Prime Ministers of the last 50 years or so I really don't think so - otherwise it would be. No-one else achieved anything that they can be remembered by. (go on - what did Blair do? He raided the pension funds and caused the present pension fund deficit. He took billions out of the economy when they rigged the 3G license auctions and caused all the telecoms providers to delay their orders for about 2 years effectively allowing the Chinese to step in with cheap products and close telecoms manufacturing in the UK. He went to war over dubious claims of WMD and destabilised the middle east a bit more. What else do you need to know he was labour? really? Or Wilson? He snatched the school milk from secondary school pupils He had to get the IMF to intervene in the UK economy as he wrecked it. Indeed, he (or his government) devalued the Pound (to $2.40). He was suspected by MI5 as being a Soviet agent. -- From KT24 Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18 |
#33
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Smart Meters
On 24/04/2013 13:09, dennis@home wrote:
He snatched the school milk from secondary school pupils No, no, that can't be right. "Maggy Thatcher - milk snatcher!" Andy |
#34
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Smart Meters
On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 14:01:04 +0100, Andy Champ wrote:
On 24/04/2013 13:09, dennis@home wrote: He snatched the school milk from secondary school pupils No, no, that can't be right. "Maggy Thatcher - milk snatcher!" That was primary schools. -- Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post *lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor |
#35
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Smart Meters
On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 12:37:06 +0100, John Williamson
wrote: Mike Barnes wrote: Arfa Daily : I'm sure that just as much vitriol and bile could be equally leveled at most, if not all of the Labour party Prime Ministers of the last 50 years or so I really don't think so - otherwise it would be. She was right wing, and the Labour PMs were left wing. The Left wing are very vocal in opposition, the right wing just get on with it, in general. A Labour PM has to *really* screw things up before the opposition get vocal. If Tory PM gets it slightly wrong,there's a whole industry geared up to get vocal and emotional about it. Since the vast majority of the press is aligned to the tories, then it's the other way around. -- (\__/) M. (='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around (")_(") is he still wrong? |
#36
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Smart Meters
On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:09:41 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote: He snatched the school milk from secondary school pupils True, but we all know who removed it for even younger children. -- ================================================== ======= Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's header does not exist. Or use a contact address at: http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html |
#37
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Smart Meters
Mark wrote:
On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 12:37:06 +0100, John Williamson wrote: Mike Barnes wrote: Arfa Daily : I'm sure that just as much vitriol and bile could be equally leveled at most, if not all of the Labour party Prime Ministers of the last 50 years or so I really don't think so - otherwise it would be. She was right wing, and the Labour PMs were left wing. The Left wing are very vocal in opposition, the right wing just get on with it, in general. A Labour PM has to *really* screw things up before the opposition get vocal. If Tory PM gets it slightly wrong,there's a whole industry geared up to get vocal and emotional about it. Since the vast majority of the press is aligned to the tories, then it's the other way around. You've not been paying much attention to the demo continngent, then. Left wingers demonstrate, right wingers write letters to the newpapers. The press, according to my memories, pick on whichever party is in power, no matter who they are. Except the left wing press such as The Daily Worker and The Mirror. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
#38
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Smart Meters
John Williamson wrote:
Mark wrote: On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 12:37:06 +0100, John Williamson wrote: Mike Barnes wrote: Arfa Daily : I'm sure that just as much vitriol and bile could be equally leveled at most, if not all of the Labour party Prime Ministers of the last 50 years or so I really don't think so - otherwise it would be. She was right wing, and the Labour PMs were left wing. The Left wing are very vocal in opposition, the right wing just get on with it, in general. A Labour PM has to *really* screw things up before the opposition get vocal. If Tory PM gets it slightly wrong,there's a whole industry geared up to get vocal and emotional about it. Since the vast majority of the press is aligned to the tories, then it's the other way around. You've not been paying much attention to the demo continngent, then. Left wingers demonstrate, right wingers write letters to the newpapers. The press, according to my memories, pick on whichever party is in power, no matter who they are. Except the left wing press such as The Daily Worker and The Mirror. Sorry, I forgot to mention the BBC. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
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Smart Meters
On 24/04/13 14:13, Mark wrote:
On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 12:37:06 +0100, John Williamson wrote: Mike Barnes wrote: Arfa Daily : I'm sure that just as much vitriol and bile could be equally leveled at most, if not all of the Labour party Prime Ministers of the last 50 years or so I really don't think so - otherwise it would be. She was right wing, and the Labour PMs were left wing. The Left wing are very vocal in opposition, the right wing just get on with it, in general. A Labour PM has to *really* screw things up before the opposition get vocal. If Tory PM gets it slightly wrong,there's a whole industry geared up to get vocal and emotional about it. Since the vast majority of the press is aligned to the tories, then it's the other way around. which planet is this on? -- Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers. |
#40
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Smart Meters
"dennis@home" wrote in message eb.com... On 24/04/2013 09:48, Andy Champ wrote: On 24/04/2013 07:26, Mike Barnes wrote: Arfa Daily : I'm sure that just as much vitriol and bile could be equally leveled at most, if not all of the Labour party Prime Ministers of the last 50 years or so I really don't think so - otherwise it would be. No-one else achieved anything that they can be remembered by. (go on - what did Blair do? He raided the pension funds and caused the present pension fund deficit. He took billions out of the economy when they rigged the 3G license auctions and caused all the telecoms providers to delay their orders for about 2 years effectively allowing the Chinese to step in with cheap products and close telecoms manufacturing in the UK. He went to war over dubious claims of WMD and destabilised the middle east a bit more. What else do you need to know he was labour? really? Or Wilson? He snatched the school milk from secondary school pupils He had to get the IMF to intervene in the UK economy as he wrecked it. And interestingly, I read the other day, he actually closed more mines and lost more miners their jobs, than Maggie did. Arfa Or Churchill, excepting the war?) He lead the country that won. |
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