Currently I read the electricity and gas meters at the end of each
month, fill in an online form, and pay for the actual usage near the
middle of the following month. I'm very happy with this arrangement.

My supplier (First Utility) has offered me free "smart meters".

http://www.first-utility.com/home-en...t-smart-meters

A smart meter takes automatic readings of your energy usage
It sends the readings via a mobile communications link to First Utility
We make your energy usage data available to view online
You receive an accurate, monthly energy bill

Experience tells me that if something is free there must be a downside,
but I can't see it. Is there one? Is this a consumer-subsidised scheme
like those "free" CFLs?

--
Mike Barnes

On 28/10/2010 09:47, Mike Barnes wrote:
Currently I read the electricity and gas meters at the end of each
month, fill in an online form, and pay for the actual usage near the
middle of the following month. I'm very happy with this arrangement.

My supplier (First Utility) has offered me free "smart meters".

http://www.first-utility.com/home-en...t-smart-meters

A smart meter takes automatic readings of your energy usage
It sends the readings via a mobile communications link to First Utility
We make your energy usage data available to view online
You receive an accurate, monthly energy bill

Experience tells me that if something is free there must be a downside,
but I can't see it. Is there one? Is this a consumer-subsidised scheme
like those "free" CFLs?


What if you subsequently want to change suppliers?

When no other suppliers are yet using smart meters they may have you by
the 'nads?

Maybe there is a contractual lock-in.

On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 09:58:49 +0100, Vortex7 wrote:

What if you subsequently want to change suppliers?

Presumably a smart meter still has a display so you can check that
the data it has sent and appears on the bill is correct. So A.N.Other
supplier not using smart meters or on a differnt smart meter system
can just carry on using the information from the display.

The only time I've had a meter misread is when they used the optical
link thingy... Do smart meters still have to be read manually, by a
meter reader and by law, at least every six months?

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article , Mike Barnes
writes
Currently I read the electricity and gas meters at the end of each
month, fill in an online form, and pay for the actual usage near the
middle of the following month. I'm very happy with this arrangement.

My supplier (First Utility) has offered me free "smart meters".

http://www.first-utility.com/home-en...t-smart-meters

A smart meter takes automatic readings of your energy usage
It sends the readings via a mobile communications link to First Utility
We make your energy usage data available to view online
You receive an accurate, monthly energy bill

Experience tells me that if something is free there must be a downside,
but I can't see it. Is there one? Is this a consumer-subsidised scheme
like those "free" CFLs?


There are quite a few scare stories out there about First Utility (FU by
name, FU by customer service).

Some relate to mis-billing (over-billing) even when a smart meter is
fitted, smart meter readings not filed, over estimates with refusal to
accept customer readings as corrections.

Googling for: "First Utility" +"smart meter" +problems gets quite a few,
eg:
http://www.moneysupermarket.com/comm...ty-158735.aspx


In my personal experience they are fine when all is going well but
quickly live up to their initials when things go wrong. Smart meter may
be a fine idea but don't expect an easy ride if things start going
wrong.

Watch out for their low(ish) unit prices but high standing charges.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

Vortex7 :
On 28/10/2010 09:47, Mike Barnes wrote:
Currently I read the electricity and gas meters at the end of each
month, fill in an online form, and pay for the actual usage near the
middle of the following month. I'm very happy with this arrangement.

My supplier (First Utility) has offered me free "smart meters".

http://www.first-utility.com/home-en...t-smart-meters

A smart meter takes automatic readings of your energy usage
It sends the readings via a mobile communications link to First Utility
We make your energy usage data available to view online
You receive an accurate, monthly energy bill

Experience tells me that if something is free there must be a downside,
but I can't see it. Is there one? Is this a consumer-subsidised scheme
like those "free" CFLs?


What if you subsequently want to change suppliers?

When no other suppliers are yet using smart meters they may have you by
the 'nads?

The FAQ says that the meter has a normal display that you can read
yourself if you like. Therefore other suppliers could presumably read it
if required.

Maybe there is a contractual lock-in.

That's more likely - that in order to make it worthwhile for them
they'll want a commitment not to switch for a year or so.

--
Mike Barnes

fred :
In article , Mike Barnes
writes
Currently I read the electricity and gas meters at the end of each
month, fill in an online form, and pay for the actual usage near the
middle of the following month. I'm very happy with this arrangement.

My supplier (First Utility) has offered me free "smart meters".

http://www.first-utility.com/home-en...t-smart-meters

A smart meter takes automatic readings of your energy usage
It sends the readings via a mobile communications link to First Utility
We make your energy usage data available to view online
You receive an accurate, monthly energy bill

Experience tells me that if something is free there must be a downside,
but I can't see it. Is there one? Is this a consumer-subsidised scheme
like those "free" CFLs?


There are quite a few scare stories out there about First Utility (FU
by name, FU by customer service).

Some relate to mis-billing (over-billing) even when a smart meter is
fitted, smart meter readings not filed, over estimates with refusal to
accept customer readings as corrections.

Googling for: "First Utility" +"smart meter" +problems gets quite a
few, eg:
http://www.moneysupermarket.com/comm.../firstutility-
158735.aspx


In my personal experience they are fine when all is going well but
quickly live up to their initials when things go wrong. Smart meter may
be a fine idea but don't expect an easy ride if things start going
wrong.

Watch out for their low(ish) unit prices but high standing charges.

Thanks - all useful advice. We're quite high users so the standing
charge isn't much of an issue. I've actually been well pleased with the
service and prices I've received from FU. I'm thinking that I should
leave well alone and certainly look at any terms and conditions such as
tariff changes before committing to anything.

--
Mike Barnes

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...
Currently I read the electricity and gas meters at the end of each
month, fill in an online form, and pay for the actual usage near the
middle of the following month. I'm very happy with this arrangement.

My supplier (First Utility) has offered me free "smart meters".

http://www.first-utility.com/home-en...t-smart-meters

A smart meter takes automatic readings of your energy usage
It sends the readings via a mobile communications link to First Utility
We make your energy usage data available to view online
You receive an accurate, monthly energy bill

Experience tells me that if something is free there must be a downside,
but I can't see it. Is there one? Is this a consumer-subsidised scheme
like those "free" CFLs?


I wonder if it draws the power that it needs to run before or after it
measures the power that you are consuming.

You might also want to consider the implications of the 'Smart Tariff'.


--
Michael Chare

Michael Chare :
"Mike Barnes" wrote in message news:vNJPXMj
...
Currently I read the electricity and gas meters at the end of each
month, fill in an online form, and pay for the actual usage near the
middle of the following month. I'm very happy with this arrangement.

My supplier (First Utility) has offered me free "smart meters".

http://www.first-utility.com/home-en...t-smart-meters

A smart meter takes automatic readings of your energy usage
It sends the readings via a mobile communications link to First Utility
We make your energy usage data available to view online
You receive an accurate, monthly energy bill

Experience tells me that if something is free there must be a downside,
but I can't see it. Is there one? Is this a consumer-subsidised scheme
like those "free" CFLs?


I wonder if it draws the power that it needs to run before or after it
measures the power that you are consuming.

You might also want to consider the implications of the 'Smart Tariff'.

Indeed I just did that and it works out more expensive.

So much for "free".

Therefore I'll leave things as they are. While investigating the tariffs
I discovered that I'm due for a substantial dual fuel rebate quite soon
- I'd forgotten about that. People might complain about the service but
FU been have very good for me.

--
Mike Barnes

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...
Currently I read the electricity and gas meters at the end of each
month, fill in an online form, and pay for the actual usage near the
middle of the following month. I'm very happy with this arrangement.

My supplier (First Utility) has offered me free "smart meters".

http://www.first-utility.com/home-en...t-smart-meters

A smart meter takes automatic readings of your energy usage
It sends the readings via a mobile communications link to First Utility
We make your energy usage data available to view online
You receive an accurate, monthly energy bill

Experience tells me that if something is free there must be a downside,
but I can't see it. Is there one? Is this a consumer-subsidised scheme
like those "free" CFLs?

In theory its a cost saving, they don't have to send meter readers out as
often.

Its also an "energy saving measure" and the government wants everyone to
have a smart meter so they can see how much energy you are wasting.

On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 09:47:54 +0100, Mike Barnes
wrote:

Currently I read the electricity and gas meters at the end of each
month, fill in an online form, and pay for the actual usage near the
middle of the following month. I'm very happy with this arrangement.

My supplier (First Utility) has offered me free "smart meters".

http://www.first-utility.com/home-en...t-smart-meters

A smart meter takes automatic readings of your energy usage
It sends the readings via a mobile communications link to First Utility
We make your energy usage data available to view online
You receive an accurate, monthly energy bill

Experience tells me that if something is free there must be a downside,
but I can't see it. Is there one? Is this a consumer-subsidised scheme
like those "free" CFLs?

The smart meter cannot be fiddled but you can fiddle?

Only use I can think of.

On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 19:38:26 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:



"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
d...
Currently I read the electricity and gas meters at the end of each
month, fill in an online form, and pay for the actual usage near the
middle of the following month. I'm very happy with this arrangement.

My supplier (First Utility) has offered me free "smart meters".

http://www.first-utility.com/home-en...t-smart-meters

A smart meter takes automatic readings of your energy usage
It sends the readings via a mobile communications link to First Utility
We make your energy usage data available to view online
You receive an accurate, monthly energy bill

Experience tells me that if something is free there must be a downside,
but I can't see it. Is there one? Is this a consumer-subsidised scheme
like those "free" CFLs?

In theory its a cost saving, they don't have to send meter readers out as
often.

In theory it will cost more in the short term since someone will have
to pay for all those smart meters and their installation. But don't
worry the utility companies won't lose out and will past the cost onto
the consumer :-(

Its also an "energy saving measure" and the government wants everyone to
have a smart meter so they can see how much energy you are wasting.

Correct. Everyone will get a smart meter over the next few years.

The thing I am really concerned about is I'll bet there will be little
or no security and it will be easy to hack the meter and cut your
power off.

All "their" calculations are based on the assumption that no-one knows
how much energy they are using and smart meters will magically make
them use less.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

On 28/10/10 12:55, Mike Barnes wrote:
:
On 28/10/2010 09:47, Mike Barnes wrote:
Currently I read the electricity and gas meters at the end of each
month, fill in an online form, and pay for the actual usage near the
middle of the following month. I'm very happy with this arrangement.

My supplier (First Utility) has offered me free "smart meters".

http://www.first-utility.com/home-en...t-smart-meters

A smart meter takes automatic readings of your energy usage
It sends the readings via a mobile communications link to First Utility
We make your energy usage data available to view online
You receive an accurate, monthly energy bill

Experience tells me that if something is free there must be a downside,
but I can't see it. Is there one? Is this a consumer-subsidised scheme
like those "free" CFLs?


What if you subsequently want to change suppliers?

When no other suppliers are yet using smart meters they may have you by
the 'nads?

The FAQ says that the meter has a normal display that you can read
yourself if you like. Therefore other suppliers could presumably read it
if required.

Maybe there is a contractual lock-in.

That's more likely - that in order to make it worthwhile for them
they'll want a commitment not to switch for a year or so.


We had these installed by E-on a couple of years ago. They worked fine,
there's no catch and the reason the companies do it is because they don't
have to pay a meter reading company to come round and read your meters, but
they still get accurate readings unlike with some of the self-read tariffs
around. Basically it's cheaper for them.

There is no lock-in, if you move to another supplier that doesn't use the
smart meters then the digits are read from the screen in the normal way.

The interesting one was the gas meter. Of course there is no power supply to
a gas meter so I wondered if they just swap out batteries or they rely on a
turbine blade in the gas flow to keep a rechargeable topped up.

The gas meter doesn't actually transmit directly back to the company, it
transmits locally to the electricity meter (the two have to be paired) and
then the electricity meter has a SIM card in it and transmits both readings
back to the company over GPRS.

On 28/10/10 14:40, Mike Barnes wrote:
Michael :
"Mike wrote in message news:vNJPXMj
lid...
Currently I read the electricity and gas meters at the end of each
month, fill in an online form, and pay for the actual usage near the
middle of the following month. I'm very happy with this arrangement.

My supplier (First Utility) has offered me free "smart meters".

http://www.first-utility.com/home-en...t-smart-meters

A smart meter takes automatic readings of your energy usage
It sends the readings via a mobile communications link to First Utility
We make your energy usage data available to view online
You receive an accurate, monthly energy bill

Experience tells me that if something is free there must be a downside,
but I can't see it. Is there one? Is this a consumer-subsidised scheme
like those "free" CFLs?


I wonder if it draws the power that it needs to run before or after it
measures the power that you are consuming.

You might also want to consider the implications of the 'Smart Tariff'.

Indeed I just did that and it works out more expensive.

So much for "free".

Therefore I'll leave things as they are. While investigating the tariffs
I discovered that I'm due for a substantial dual fuel rebate quite soon
- I'd forgotten about that. People might complain about the service but
FU been have very good for me.


When E-on fitted these for us we didn't have to change tariff, there was no
lockin, and they were explicit that the power used by the meter is not added
to the bill just like with any other electronic meter. They also stated that
it consumed less power than the energy needed to spin the disc in the old
analogue meters.

For us it was a no-brainer to have them fitted as it meant we never needed to
see a meter reader again.

On 29/10/10 09:35, Mark wrote:


The thing I am really concerned about is I'll bet there will be little
or no security and it will be easy to hack the meter and cut your
power off.

All "their" calculations are based on the assumption that no-one knows
how much energy they are using and smart meters will magically make
them use less.

There is another advantage for the energy companies. The same meters can be
used for pre-pay or post-pay billing. For pre-pay billing, the customer can
pay on the web, over the phone or at a Paypoint location and the account is
automatically topped up a bit like a mobile phone topup account. The credits
are added to the meter over the GPRS interface and you can see on the meter
how much credit you have remaining. If you switch between pre-pay and
post-pay a signal is sent over the air to the meter and it alters its
behaviour accordingly.

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 09:53:28 +0100, funkyoldcortina wrote:

... the electricity meter has a SIM card in it and transmits both
readings back to the company over GPRS.

What happens if there is no GPRS signal where your electricity meter
is located?

--
Cheers
Dave.

"dennis@home" :


"Mike Barnes" wrote in message news:vNJPXMj
...
Currently I read the electricity and gas meters at the end of each
month, fill in an online form, and pay for the actual usage near the
middle of the following month. I'm very happy with this arrangement.

My supplier (First Utility) has offered me free "smart meters".

http://www.first-utility.com/home-en...t-smart-meters

A smart meter takes automatic readings of your energy usage
It sends the readings via a mobile communications link to First Utility
We make your energy usage data available to view online
You receive an accurate, monthly energy bill

Experience tells me that if something is free there must be a downside,
but I can't see it. Is there one? Is this a consumer-subsidised scheme
like those "free" CFLs?

In theory its a cost saving, they don't have to send meter readers out
as often.

Possibly, but I'm not so sure. We hardly ever see a meter reader, and I
assume they'd still send one out every now and then to check for
tampering.

--
Mike Barnes

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 10:09:57 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 09:53:28 +0100, funkyoldcortina wrote:

... the electricity meter has a SIM card in it and transmits both
readings back to the company over GPRS.

What happens if there is no GPRS signal where your electricity meter
is located?

There's virtually no chance there will be enough signal where my
meters are located. Do I get energy for free then? ;-)
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 09:53:28 +0100, funkyoldcortina wrote:

... the electricity meter has a SIM card in it and transmits both
readings back to the company over GPRS.

What happens if there is no GPRS signal where your electricity meter
is located?

Tye cut you off, of course.

Dave Liquorice :
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 09:53:28 +0100, funkyoldcortina wrote:

... the electricity meter has a SIM card in it and transmits both
readings back to the company over GPRS.

What happens if there is no GPRS signal where your electricity meter
is located?

From First Utility's FAQ:

Are there any reasons why you may not be able to fit a smart meter in my
home?

In most cases smart meters are installed with no problems at all.
Occasionally we have found that we are unable to do so due to a number
of reasons beyond our control. These include:

* A weak mobile signal (smart meters communicate using mobile
technology, therefore a weak signal will prevent the meter sending the
reads to our head office)

--
Mike Barnes

"Mark" wrote in message
...

The thing I am really concerned about is I'll bet there will be little
or no security and it will be easy to hack the meter and cut your
power off.

you watch too much TV.

In article ,
Mike Barnes writes:
Currently I read the electricity and gas meters at the end of each
month, fill in an online form, and pay for the actual usage near the
middle of the following month. I'm very happy with this arrangement.

My supplier (First Utility) has offered me free "smart meters".

http://www.first-utility.com/home-en...t-smart-meters

A smart meter takes automatic readings of your energy usage
It sends the readings via a mobile communications link to First Utility
We make your energy usage data available to view online
You receive an accurate, monthly energy bill

Experience tells me that if something is free there must be a downside,
but I can't see it. Is there one? Is this a consumer-subsidised scheme
like those "free" CFLs?

They have the ability to remote disconnect you without any visit.
Some people might regard that as a disadvantage.

Personally, I think this control needs to be taken away from the
suppliers and passed to an independant body which will require
some suitable evidence and/or court order before allowing
disconnection. I'm not very comfortable with the suppliers being
able to control it themselves. There's also the issue of this
control being broken into due to poor security - imagine if some
school kid in Russia finds he can switch off the power to
10 million UK homes at the push of a button on his laptop.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

They have the ability to remote disconnect you without any visit.
Some people might regard that as a disadvantage.

Are you sure that these meters have that capability?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On Sun, 31 Oct 2010 08:53:10 +0000, Chris J Dixon
wrote:

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

They have the ability to remote disconnect you without any visit.
Some people might regard that as a disadvantage.

Are you sure that these meters have that capability?

All the information states that there will be two-way communication
between the utility company and the meter. Nowhere, in their
marketing leaflets, do they suggest a use for communication from
company to meter only the other way. So what use could they put
it???

In addition - in the consultation documents it states "further work is
needed to asses some of the issues raised before a final decision is
taken on this element" (remote disabling). Only remote disabling for
commercial customers has been ruled out.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

On 29/10/10 10:09, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 09:53:28 +0100, funkyoldcortina wrote:

... the electricity meter has a SIM card in it and transmits both
readings back to the company over GPRS.

What happens if there is no GPRS signal where your electricity meter
is located?


They check that before they fit the meter.

On 01/11/10 09:16, Mark wrote:
On Sun, 31 Oct 2010 08:53:10 +0000, Chris J
wrote:

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

They have the ability to remote disconnect you without any visit.
Some people might regard that as a disadvantage.

Are you sure that these meters have that capability?

All the information states that there will be two-way communication
between the utility company and the meter. Nowhere, in their
marketing leaflets, do they suggest a use for communication from
company to meter only the other way. So what use could they put
it???

I already indicated why they need two way comms.

From another post:-

The same meters can be used for pre-pay or post-pay billing. For pre-pay
billing, the customer can pay on the web, over the phone or at a Paypoint
location and the account is automatically topped up a bit like a mobile phone
topup account. The credits are added to the meter over the GPRS interface and
you can see on the meter how much credit you have remaining. If you switch
between pre-pay and post-pay a signal is sent over the air to the meter and
it alters its behaviour accordingly.

funkyoldcortina wrote:

I already indicated why they need two way comms.

From another post:-

The same meters can be used for pre-pay or post-pay billing. For pre-pay
billing, the customer can pay on the web, over the phone or at a Paypoint
location and the account is automatically topped up a bit like a mobile phone
topup account. The credits are added to the meter over the GPRS interface and
you can see on the meter how much credit you have remaining. If you switch
between pre-pay and post-pay a signal is sent over the air to the meter and
it alters its behaviour accordingly.

ISTMT the final details for the national roll-out of smart meters
is yet to be fully agreed. Therefore any early implementers can
only be working to rules of their own devising, and may well have
to replace such meters with ones complying with whatever is
imposed.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On 01/11/10 15:15, Chris J Dixon wrote:
funkyoldcortina wrote:

I already indicated why they need two way comms.

From another post:-

The same meters can be used for pre-pay or post-pay billing. For pre-pay
billing, the customer can pay on the web, over the phone or at a Paypoint
location and the account is automatically topped up a bit like a mobile phone
topup account. The credits are added to the meter over the GPRS interface and
you can see on the meter how much credit you have remaining. If you switch
between pre-pay and post-pay a signal is sent over the air to the meter and
it alters its behaviour accordingly.

ISTMT the final details for the national roll-out of smart meters
is yet to be fully agreed. Therefore any early implementers can
only be working to rules of their own devising, and may well have
to replace such meters with ones complying with whatever is
imposed.


That is not likely to be anything more than a software upgrade. The meters
are made by Landis+Gyr (AMPY). Our electric meter looked like this

http://www.utilityweek.co.uk/news/Sm...er%204MAIN.jpg

(on the left) - we did not have the optional remote display.

The gas meter had a digital display which you could read locally by pressing
a button.