--- begin quote

O.K.

They just left

GET THIS !

They tested with my smart meter with their own power company [equipment] and
VERIFIED it WAS doubling the load!!

THEN they installed another brand new smart meter to test it again.

Well guess what...

The NEW smart meter ALSO SHOWED A DOUBLE USAGE READING!

This is by the power company with their own equipment!

So then they put back on my old analogue meter and tested with that..

Of course it showed almost perfect reading..

--- end quote

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=117802.0

On Aug 26, 5:56*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
--- begin quote

O.K.

They just left

GET THIS !

They tested with my smart meter with their own power company [equipment] and
VERIFIED it WAS doubling the load!!

THEN they installed another brand new smart meter to test it again.

Well guess what...

The NEW smart meter ALSO SHOWED A DOUBLE USAGE READING!

This is by the power company with their own equipment!

So then they put back on my old analogue meter and tested with that..

Of course it showed almost perfect reading..

--- end quote

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=117802.0

Goes to show you, not everybody reads the instruction manual. Or gets
the right part off the shelf. Or gets the right part number on the
box. Some think the level of incompetence is rising faster than credit
card debt. Scary.

Joe

On Aug 26, 5:56 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
--- begin quote

O.K.

They just left

GET THIS !

They tested with my smart meter with their own power company [equipment] and
VERIFIED it WAS doubling the load!!

THEN they installed another brand new smart meter to test it again.

Well guess what...

The NEW smart meter ALSO SHOWED A DOUBLE USAGE READING!

This is by the power company with their own equipment!

So then they put back on my old analogue meter and tested with that..

Of course it showed almost perfect reading..

--- end quote

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=117802.0

the nut behind the wheel can make all the difference, tnx 4 the heads
up !

On Aug 27, 8:40*pm, "gnu / linux" wrote:
On Aug 26, 5:56 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:





--- begin quote

O.K.

They just left

GET THIS !

They tested with my smart meter with their own power company [equipment] and
VERIFIED it WAS doubling the load!!

THEN they installed another brand new smart meter to test it again.

Well guess what...

The NEW smart meter ALSO SHOWED A DOUBLE USAGE READING!

This is by the power company with their own equipment!

So then they put back on my old analogue meter and tested with that..

Of course it showed almost perfect reading..

--- end quote

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=117802.0

the nut behind the wheel can make all the difference, tnx 4 the heads
up !



I have yet to hear any logical explanation of exactly how "smart
electric meters" are going to do much of anything to save energy or
enable more green energy. Every single newspaper article discussing
the subject is pure bable and hyperbole. They make claims like "It
will enable power from a windmill three states away to be delivered to
your home. It will allow the solar panels on your neighbors house
to power your home...."

Both of those things are done today with the conventional grid.
Until I see some logical explanation, I'm assuming this is just
another big govt waste, passed in the middle of the night, just
because we HAD to have it. The ones getting rich will be the
companies making and installing all these millions of meters.

wrote:
On Aug 27, 8:40 pm, "gnu / linux" wrote:
On Aug 26, 5:56 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:





--- begin quote
O.K.
They just left
GET THIS !
They tested with my smart meter with their own power company [equipment] and
VERIFIED it WAS doubling the load!!
THEN they installed another brand new smart meter to test it again.
Well guess what...
The NEW smart meter ALSO SHOWED A DOUBLE USAGE READING!
This is by the power company with their own equipment!
So then they put back on my old analogue meter and tested with that..
Of course it showed almost perfect reading..
--- end quote
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=117802.0
the nut behind the wheel can make all the difference, tnx 4 the heads
up !



I have yet to hear any logical explanation of exactly how "smart
electric meters" are going to do much of anything to save energy or
enable more green energy. Every single newspaper article discussing
the subject is pure bable and hyperbole. They make claims like "It
will enable power from a windmill three states away to be delivered to
your home. It will allow the solar panels on your neighbors house
to power your home...."

Both of those things are done today with the conventional grid.
Until I see some logical explanation, I'm assuming this is just
another big govt waste, passed in the middle of the night, just
because we HAD to have it. The ones getting rich will be the
companies making and installing all these millions of meters.

wrote:
....
I have yet to hear any logical explanation of exactly how "smart
electric meters" are going to do much of anything to save energy or
enable more green energy. Every single newspaper article discussing
the subject is pure bable and hyperbole. They make claims like "It
will enable power from a windmill three states away to be delivered to
your home. It will allow the solar panels on your neighbors house
to power your home...."

Both of those things are done today with the conventional grid.
....
Starting last first...

Those things specifically _aren't_ actually done; at best the windmill
somewhere in the Midwest can displace a few electrons that otherwise
would have flowed to you but there's no way the actual generation
specifically from that location arrive in your outlets...(and, yes, I
know you know that, just amplifying some).

And, of course, "smart meters" aren't going to change that, either.

What they can do is cut peak loading by demand-based load limiting and
similar techniques.

More interesting is farther up the food chain than individual residence
metering to the distribution grid itself where better control could make
significant improvements in grid loss by solid state transformers,
better thermal sensing and control of line sag, etc. Discussion and
deployment of DC transmission for long-distance is another area that is
on the horizon as losses are significantly lower and as noted above
solid-state devices now do allow for high-voltage step-up/down that
before required conventional transformers.

There are benefits; as noted, unfortunately, the common press reporter
is so ill-informed and scientifically ignorant there's almost no hope of
any general circulation story having any factual basis behind it that
makes any sense...

--

On Aug 29, 10:36*am, dpb wrote:
wrote:

... I have yet to hear any logical explanation of exactly how "smart
electric meters" are going to do much of anything to save energy or
enable more green energy. * Every single newspaper article discussing
the subject is pure bable and hyperbole. * They make claims like "It
will enable power from a windmill three states away to be delivered to
your home. * *It will allow the solar panels on your neighbors house
to power your home...."

Both of those things are done today with the conventional grid.

...
Starting last first...

Those things specifically _aren't_ actually done; at best the windmill
somewhere in the Midwest can displace a few electrons that otherwise
would have flowed to you but there's no way the actual generation
specifically from that location arrive in your outlets...(and, yes, I
know you know that, just amplifying some).

And, of course, "smart meters" aren't going to change that, either.

What they can do is cut peak loading by demand-based load limiting and
similar techniques.

And how exactly is a smart meter going to limit demand? This is
exactly the type of statement that I'm talking about. A supposed
benefit that makes no sense. Unless the house is rewired/modified so
the smart meter can shed specific loads, like turn off the AC or water
heater, then any meter that replaces the current one isn't going to
shed any load, unless it turns off the current to the entire
house.






More interesting is farther up the food chain than individual residence
metering to the distribution grid itself where better control could make
significant improvements in grid loss by solid state transformers,
better thermal sensing and control of line sag, etc. *Discussion and
deployment of DC transmission for long-distance is another area that is
on the horizon as losses are significantly lower and as noted above
solid-state devices now do allow for high-voltage step-up/down that
before required conventional transformers.

There are benefits; as noted, unfortunately, the common press reporter
is so ill-informed and scientifically ignorant there's almost no hope of
any general circulation story having any factual basis behind it that
makes any sense...

--

wrote:
....
And how exactly is a smart meter going to limit demand? This is
exactly the type of statement that I'm talking about. A supposed
benefit that makes no sense. Unless the house is rewired/modified so
the smart meter can shed specific loads, ...

Well, DOH!...

--

On Aug 29, 12:14*pm, dpb wrote:
wrote:

...

And how exactly is a smart meter going to limit demand? * This is
exactly the type of statement that I'm talking about. * A supposed
benefit that makes no sense. *Unless the house is rewired/modified so
the smart meter can shed specific loads, ...

Well, DOH!...

--



Except that the current federal plan to REPLACE existing meters
doesn't call for anything in the house to be rewired or modified, so
the question remains. Exactly what will replacing millions of
existing meters with "smart meters" due to save energy, enable green
energy, etc?

On Aug 29, 11:10*am, wrote:
On Aug 29, 10:36*am, dpb wrote:





wrote:

... I have yet to hear any logical explanation of exactly how "smart
electric meters" are going to do much of anything to save energy or
enable more green energy. * Every single newspaper article discussing
the subject is pure bable and hyperbole. * They make claims like "It
will enable power from a windmill three states away to be delivered to
your home. * *It will allow the solar panels on your neighbors house
to power your home...."

Both of those things are done today with the conventional grid.

...
Starting last first...

Those things specifically _aren't_ actually done; at best the windmill
somewhere in the Midwest can displace a few electrons that otherwise
would have flowed to you but there's no way the actual generation
specifically from that location arrive in your outlets...(and, yes, I
know you know that, just amplifying some).

And, of course, "smart meters" aren't going to change that, either.

What they can do is cut peak loading by demand-based load limiting and
similar techniques.

And how exactly is a smart meter going to limit demand? * This is
exactly the type of statement that I'm talking about. * A supposed
benefit that makes no sense. *Unless the house is rewired/modified so
the smart meter can shed specific loads, like turn off the AC or water
heater, then any meter that replaces the current one isn't going to
shed any load, unless it turns off the current to the entire
house.





More interesting is farther up the food chain than individual residence
metering to the distribution grid itself where better control could make
significant improvements in grid loss by solid state transformers,
better thermal sensing and control of line sag, etc. *Discussion and
deployment of DC transmission for long-distance is another area that is
on the horizon as losses are significantly lower and as noted above
solid-state devices now do allow for high-voltage step-up/down that
before required conventional transformers.

There are benefits; as noted, unfortunately, the common press reporter
is so ill-informed and scientifically ignorant there's almost no hope of
any general circulation story having any factual basis behind it that
makes any sense...

--- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Cant they shut your neighborhood off when they want, thats limit
demand.

dpb wrote:

wrote:
...
And how exactly is a smart meter going to limit demand? This is
exactly the type of statement that I'm talking about. A supposed
benefit that makes no sense. Unless the house is rewired/modified so
the smart meter can shed specific loads, ...

Well, DOH!...

--

The utility in my area is offering smart thermostats at a discount
price. These thermostats give you a web GUI to play with and also allow
the utility to turn off A/C loads for a 15 minute window when they have
high demand on the grid.

the question remains. Exactly what will replacing millions of
existing meters with "smart meters" due to save energy, enable green
energy, etc?


its all of the above,

it's an ip based device,
-usage can be billed at minute by minute rates
-the meter can disconnect service remotely, non-payment, walking
blackouts etc
-the usage can be viewed realtime by a homeplug based display in the house.
-this display can be programmed to adjust smart thermostats and delay
high use appliances by using x-10 or homeplug modules. (water heater,
laundry, dish washer)
-software for your pc can do the same as the display.

the displays/controllers are available now, for around $200. some diy's
have demos for the displays and pc software where the meters are now
provisioned.

the utilities now have the means to bill about the same way airlines
price seats. and best of all, they let you make the choice. (you
decided to use those 80cent kwhs')

and we get the opportunity to pay an additional $5/mo for the next 11
years to pay for their upgrade. (there are also substantial stimulus
funds being paid to the same utilities for the same meter... as "smart
grid" funding.)

At least the rest of you will be on par with our Texas highest "power of
choice" electric rates in the US brought to us by Bush and Wood, just
before they packed off to DC some 9 years ago. beware of politicians
helpin' you out ;-)

larry/dallas wrote:

the question remains. Exactly what will replacing millions of
existing meters with "smart meters" due to save energy, enable green
energy, etc?


its all of the above,

it's an ip based device,
-usage can be billed at minute by minute rates
-the meter can disconnect service remotely, non-payment, walking
blackouts etc
-the usage can be viewed realtime by a homeplug based display in the house.
-this display can be programmed to adjust smart thermostats and delay
high use appliances by using x-10 or homeplug modules. (water heater,
laundry, dish washer)
-software for your pc can do the same as the display.

the displays/controllers are available now, for around $200. some diy's
have demos for the displays and pc software where the meters are now
provisioned.

the utilities now have the means to bill about the same way airlines
price seats. and best of all, they let you make the choice. (you
decided to use those 80cent kwhs')

and we get the opportunity to pay an additional $5/mo for the next 11
years to pay for their upgrade. (there are also substantial stimulus
funds being paid to the same utilities for the same meter... as "smart
grid" funding.)

At least the rest of you will be on par with our Texas highest "power of
choice" electric rates in the US brought to us by Bush and Wood, just
before they packed off to DC some 9 years ago. beware of politicians
helpin' you out ;-)

The overall idea of "smart grid" makes a lot of sense. Anyone who has an
emergency backup generator for their house that is smaller capacity than
the normal utility service as most are understands load management. Some
of the largest residential electrical loads are also the ones that are
not particularly time critical. Air conditioning and electric based heat
(heat pump or resistive) both are quite flexible in their running time
needs due to the thermal mass of the house. Alternating HVAC run times
with neighbors can make a pretty large difference in peak grid loads.
Similar improvments are possible with electric water heating, pool
pumps, and some other items. All of this can reduce the need for grid
upgrades and new power plants, and can provide grid capacity for
charging electric vehicles where viable.

larry/dallas wrote:

At least the rest of you will be on par with our Texas highest "power
of choice" electric rates in the US brought to us by Bush and Wood,
just before they packed off to DC some 9 years ago. beware of
politicians helpin' you out ;-)

Texas is not the highest - we're somewhere in the middle (#36 out of 51).
http://www.neo.ne.gov/statshtml/115.htm

Texas is, however, a special case. We are not connected to the national
grid*. It costs a bit more, sometimes, to assert one's independence.

----------
* There's a teeny interconnection near Longview via Louisiana and another on
the Oklahoma border. Both are inconsequential. Other than that, the rest of
the nation can go dark and it won't affect us.

ktos posted for all of us...


They just want an excuse to come into your house and see what there is to
steal.

1) Tax 2)Outlaw 3)Steal/seize - like firearms...

--
Tekkie Don't bother to thank me, I do this as a public service.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
Texas is not the highest - we're somewhere in the middle (#36 out of 51).
http://www.neo.ne.gov/statshtml/115.htm


I'm proud to be paying the #50 rates.

On Aug 31, 1:19*pm, "Pete C." wrote:
larry/dallas wrote:

the question remains. * Exactly what will replacing millions of
existing meters with "smart meters" due to save energy, enable green
energy, etc?

its all of the above,

it's an ip based device,
-usage can be billed at minute by minute rates
-the meter can disconnect service remotely, non-payment, walking
blackouts etc
-the usage can be viewed realtime by a homeplug based display in the house.
-this display can be programmed to adjust smart thermostats and delay
high use appliances by using x-10 or homeplug modules. (water heater,
laundry, dish washer)
-software for your pc can do the same as the display.

the displays/controllers are available now, for around $200. *some diy's
have demos for the displays and pc software where the meters are now
provisioned.

the utilities now have the means to bill about the same way airlines
price seats. *and best of all, they let you make the choice. *(you
decided to use those 80cent kwhs')

and we get the opportunity to pay an additional $5/mo for the next 11
years to pay for their upgrade. *(there are also substantial stimulus
funds being paid to the same utilities for the same meter... as "smart
grid" funding.)

At least the rest of you will be on par with our Texas highest "power of
choice" electric rates in the US brought to us by Bush and Wood, just
before they packed off to DC some 9 years ago. *beware of politicians
helpin' you out ;-)

The overall idea of "smart grid" makes a lot of sense. Anyone who has an
emergency backup generator for their house that is smaller capacity than
the normal utility service as most are understands load management. Some
of the largest residential electrical loads are also the ones that are
not particularly time critical. Air conditioning and electric based heat
(heat pump or resistive) both are quite flexible in their running time
needs due to the thermal mass of the house. Alternating HVAC run times
with neighbors can make a pretty large difference in peak grid loads.

Again, the current plan, as I understand it, is to replace millions of
conventional meters with "smart" ones. Unless you make other
significant changes to the existing house, that new meter isn't going
to be able to turn off the AC or any other load.




Similar improvments are possible with electric water heating, pool
pumps, and some other items. All of this can reduce the need for grid
upgrades and new power plants, and can provide grid capacity for
charging electric vehicles where viable.

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 15:04:27 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

larry/dallas wrote:

At least the rest of you will be on par with our Texas highest "power
of choice" electric rates in the US brought to us by Bush and Wood,
just before they packed off to DC some 9 years ago. beware of
politicians helpin' you out ;-)

Texas is not the highest - we're somewhere in the middle (#36 out of 51).
http://www.neo.ne.gov/statshtml/115.htm

Texas is, however, a special case. We are not connected to the national
grid*. It costs a bit more, sometimes, to assert one's independence.

----------
* There's a teeny interconnection near Longview via Louisiana and another on
the Oklahoma border. Both are inconsequential. Other than that, the rest of
the nation can go dark and it won't affect us.


I'm in one of the few Texas cities that's not "deregulated", where we
have lower rates.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"How could you ask me to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

You Can use Power From www.ilmpower.tk

They have gud plugs And Warranty to000