There's a lot of information about that if you keep a Laptop battery
charged between only 80% full and only 40% full, it will be servicable
over the years for four times as long.

Other information I find says it is the charging and discharging that
wears the battery out.

The laptop i have (with a built in battery) is mainly used in one room,
so it is easy to keep it plugged in *all the time* to mains electricity.

Would it be better to prolong the life of the battery to keep it plugged
in all the time or to go for the 80% - 40% option. Thanks.

On Fri, 9 Dec 2016 11:24:19 +0000
john west wrote:

There's a lot of information about that if you keep a Laptop battery
charged between only 80% full and only 40% full, it will be
servicable over the years for four times as long.

Other information I find says it is the charging and discharging that
wears the battery out.

The laptop i have (with a built in battery) is mainly used in one
room, so it is easy to keep it plugged in *all the time* to mains
electricity.

Would it be better to prolong the life of the battery to keep it
plugged in all the time or to go for the 80% - 40% option. Thanks.

I asked a similar question a couple of years ago, in a computer
newsgroup, and there was little consensus about the best method of
conserving the battery. It will be interesting to see if there is
anything new.
I bought this laptop new about four years ago, and used it with the
battery installed, but using the mains, and the battery power is almost
zero now, so I am looking for the best way to treat a replacement
battery.

--
Davey.

john west wrote:
There's a lot of information about that if you keep a Laptop battery
charged between only 80% full and only 40% full, it will be servicable
over the years for four times as long.

Other information I find says it is the charging and discharging that
wears the battery out.

There's several things that control the life of rechargeable batteries:

The quality of the cells
The temperature they run at (and available cooling)
The loads they get put to (see temperature)
The smartness of the battery manager in terms of charging, discharging and
balancing.

As always 'it depends', but I'd suggest the battery manager is smarter than
you are are regards maintaining the optimal state of charge to keep the
battery happy. The only thing is that it has no prescience over what you're
going to do in future - eg store the laptop for months unplugged - but
otherwise I'd suggest it's best to leave it to it.

That doesn't apply so much to old laptops (dumb batteries), cheaper laptops
(poorly written management software) or removable batteries (in some cases
the manager might be in the appliance or charger not in the battery -
unlikely with laptops but can apply to eg power tools).

The laptop i have (with a built in battery) is mainly used in one room,
so it is easy to keep it plugged in *all the time* to mains electricity.

Would it be better to prolong the life of the battery to keep it plugged
in all the time or to go for the 80% - 40% option. Thanks.

It'll depend on the battery manager in that particular machine, but one
thing to say is keep the battery cool. If the laptop gets hot, that'll
degrade battery life. Also it's worth using the battery from time to time -
don't leave it on charger forever. But otherwise it's going to be pretty
hard to maintain 40-80% without causing lots of charge/discharge cycles
which will wear the battery.

Theo

On Friday, 9 December 2016 11:23:48 UTC, john west wrote:
There's a lot of information about that if you keep a Laptop battery
charged between only 80% full and only 40% full, it will be servicable
over the years for four times as long.

it probbably depends on teh tyep of battery and the make of teh battery and charging circuit, I'm sure Apple used to advise discharging it comnpletely every month adn then charging it to full as this updates the info of teh battery condition so it can fully charge rather than part charge.



Other information I find says it is the charging and discharging that
wears the battery out.

well yes they have a 'life cycle' but I'm not sure with todays battereis whether charging them up every hour to keep them charged is the best option
on to let them go below 10% is best.
Not havign a labtop means I don;lt have to think about it. I charge my iupad when I;m NOT using it and it;s below about 50% charged.
Last night it stopped while I was listening to a podcast 4% was the last I noticed. So at 1:10am I decided I might as well go to bed and charge the ipad ready for the morning.


The laptop i have (with a built in battery) is mainly used in one room,
so it is easy to keep it plugged in *all the time* to mains electricity.

Would it be better to prolong the life of the battery to keep it plugged
in all the time or to go for the 80% - 40% option. Thanks.

Theo wrote:
john west wrote:
There's a lot of information about that if you keep a Laptop battery
charged between only 80% full and only 40% full, it will be servicable
over the years for four times as long.

Other information I find says it is the charging and discharging that
wears the battery out.

There's several things that control the life of rechargeable batteries:

The quality of the cells
The temperature they run at (and available cooling)
The loads they get put to (see temperature)
The smartness of the battery manager in terms of charging, discharging and
balancing.

As always 'it depends', but I'd suggest the battery manager is smarter than
you are are regards maintaining the optimal state of charge to keep the
battery happy. The only thing is that it has no prescience over what you're
going to do in future - eg store the laptop for months unplugged - but
otherwise I'd suggest it's best to leave it to it.

That doesn't apply so much to old laptops (dumb batteries), cheaper laptops
(poorly written management software) or removable batteries (in some cases
the manager might be in the appliance or charger not in the battery -
unlikely with laptops but can apply to eg power tools).

The laptop i have (with a built in battery) is mainly used in one room,
so it is easy to keep it plugged in *all the time* to mains electricity.

Would it be better to prolong the life of the battery to keep it plugged
in all the time or to go for the 80% - 40% option. Thanks.

It'll depend on the battery manager in that particular machine, but one
thing to say is keep the battery cool. If the laptop gets hot, that'll
degrade battery life. Also it's worth using the battery from time to time -
don't leave it on charger forever. But otherwise it's going to be pretty
hard to maintain 40-80% without causing lots of charge/discharge cycles
which will wear the battery.

Theo


With my sony touch screen vaio, sony themselves say set charge to 80%
makes it last longer.

On 09/12/16 13:24, john west wrote:
There's a lot of information about that if you keep a Laptop battery
charged between only 80% full and only 40% full, it will be servicable
over the years for four times as long.

Other information I find says it is the charging and discharging that
wears the battery out.

The laptop i have (with a built in battery) is mainly used in one room,
so it is easy to keep it plugged in *all the time* to mains electricity.

Would it be better to prolong the life of the battery to keep it plugged
in all the time or to go for the 80% - 40% option. Thanks.

the latter.

longevity of Li-ion is vastly reduced at high states of charge, more
than the issues of multiple shallow cycling.

On Fri, 9 Dec 2016 11:24:19 +0000, john west
wrote:

There's a lot of information about that if you keep a Laptop battery
charged between only 80% full and only 40% full, it will be servicable
over the years for four times as long.

Other information I find says it is the charging and discharging that
wears the battery out.

The laptop i have (with a built in battery) is mainly used in one room,
so it is easy to keep it plugged in *all the time* to mains electricity.

Would it be better to prolong the life of the battery to keep it plugged
in all the time or to go for the 80% - 40% option. Thanks.

My wife's Samsung netbook has a setting for battery conservation which
is 80%. If we are travelling we reset this to 100% but at home it is
back to 80%. This is an early 2012 purchase and without specific
testing the battery appears fine.

For my main Lenovo laptop (2007) I have two batteries. The original
and now basically defunct battery is in all the time, it just about
has enough juice to shut down on no power. The other I only use if
I'm about to travel.

I've taken the battery out of an occasionally used laptop which
essentially makes it no different to a normal desktop computer as far
as power is concerned.


--
AnthonyL

In article ,
john west wrote:
There's a lot of information about that if you keep a Laptop battery
charged between only 80% full and only 40% full, it will be servicable
over the years for four times as long.

Other information I find says it is the charging and discharging that
wears the battery out.

The laptop i have (with a built in battery) is mainly used in one room,
so it is easy to keep it plugged in *all the time* to mains electricity.

Would it be better to prolong the life of the battery to keep it plugged
in all the time or to go for the 80% - 40% option. Thanks.

It depends on the charger in the laptop. I have an Acer laptop - not the
cheapest they did - which cooks the battery if left in the machine. So I
remove it when not needed. A better designed one wouldn't cause problems.

--
wife.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 09/12/2016 11:24, john west wrote:
There's a lot of information about that if you keep a Laptop battery
charged between only 80% full and only 40% full, it will be servicable
over the years for four times as long.

Other information I find says it is the charging and discharging that
wears the battery out.

Both are true, but keeping it fully charged all the time kills it even
faster than cycling it through periodic discharge. It is bad to keep it
near either end of the spectrum for long periods of time. How hot the PC
gets plays a part too - and they generally run faster and hotter on
mains when all power saving features are typically disabled.

Charged and on mains supply is how I generally killed my portables - it
runs faster when on mains so it generally is unless I'm travelling.

Deep discharged and left for a long period of time will brick it into a
state where safety features will (should) prevent it ever working again.

The laptop i have (with a built in battery) is mainly used in one room,
so it is easy to keep it plugged in *all the time* to mains electricity.

Even so you should cycle the battery to 20% or lower and then recharge
at least once a month. I have killed plenty of laptop batteries on
continuous power. The newer chemistry is a bit more robust but in search
of ever greater energy density that margin gets eroded again.

Would it be better to prolong the life of the battery to keep it plugged
in all the time or to go for the 80% - 40% option. Thanks.

You need to cycle the battery every couple of weeks or so or the
chemistry will get stuck in a charged but forgotten how to discharge
state. That means when you do need to use it the remaining battery
capacity is a tiny fraction of its nominal rating. No problem if you can
always use it on mains power but a nuisance when travelling.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Fri, 9 Dec 2016 13:37:25 +0000
Martin Brown wrote:

Even so you should cycle the battery to 20% or lower and then
recharge at least once a month. I have killed plenty of laptop
batteries on continuous power. The newer chemistry is a bit more
robust but in search of ever greater energy density that margin gets
eroded again.

Would it be better to prolong the life of the battery to keep it
plugged in all the time or to go for the 80% - 40% option.
Thanks.

You need to cycle the battery every couple of weeks or so or the
chemistry will get stuck in a charged but forgotten how to discharge
state. That means when you do need to use it the remaining battery
capacity is a tiny fraction of its nominal rating. No problem if you
can always use it on mains power but a nuisance when travelling.

That sounds like decent advice. Although I rarely need to run on
battery power, it is worth having one that will actually run. I can buy
a replacement for my dead one, and implement a serious charging routine
based on the above.

Next question: Which battery suppliers are good, and which are to be
avoided? Or should I buy a proper Samsung battery?

--
Davey.

On Friday, 9 December 2016 15:18:14 UTC, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 9 Dec 2016 13:37:25 +0000
Martin Brown wrote:

Even so you should cycle the battery to 20% or lower and then
recharge at least once a month. I have killed plenty of laptop
batteries on continuous power. The newer chemistry is a bit more
robust but in search of ever greater energy density that margin gets
eroded again.

Would it be better to prolong the life of the battery to keep it
plugged in all the time or to go for the 80% - 40% option.
Thanks.

You need to cycle the battery every couple of weeks or so or the
chemistry will get stuck in a charged but forgotten how to discharge
state. That means when you do need to use it the remaining battery
capacity is a tiny fraction of its nominal rating. No problem if you
can always use it on mains power but a nuisance when travelling.

That sounds like decent advice. Although I rarely need to run on
battery power, it is worth having one that will actually run. I can buy
a replacement for my dead one, and implement a serious charging routine
based on the above.

Next question: Which battery suppliers are good, and which are to be
avoided? Or should I buy a proper Samsung battery?

difficult Q considering the problems they are having with soem of their exploding phones and washing machines catching fire. In theory gettign an original battery from a trusted supplier would be the best bet.

The question is unanswerable. The whole thing depends on how the charger
works. In most cases I've encountered there is a circuit inside the laptop
that monitors the battery, sometimes from a separate contact on the pack
which may or may not have its own electronics monitoring the cells. At any
rate, however it is done it seems to read, pulse then re read the battery
and somehow decides whether to increase the charging times of the pulses
and hence charge it.
However if the charger is pretty dumb and just keeps on charging, which I've
never encountered it will trash the batter quite fast That only leaves you
able to decide how much you use it before recharging, and I suspect the
little ever changing info in the task bar is only a rough guess from some
arbitrary timer in the machine that may or may not look at the current used
as it goes along. All I know is that on my Dell, it lasts longer with the
screen off, and even longer if you allow it to throttle back the processor,
so without some idea of a make and model its probably just an educated
guess. I think as long as one does not run it completely flat, something
which the dell will not allow forcing you to close it at around 14 percent
left, then the life should be reasonable assuming no faults in a cell or
other nasty happenings.
So how many words was that for, don't know!
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"john west" wrote in message
news
There's a lot of information about that if you keep a Laptop battery
charged between only 80% full and only 40% full, it will be servicable
over the years for four times as long.

Other information I find says it is the charging and discharging that
wears the battery out.

The laptop i have (with a built in battery) is mainly used in one room, so
it is easy to keep it plugged in *all the time* to mains electricity.

Would it be better to prolong the life of the battery to keep it plugged
in all the time or to go for the 80% - 40% option. Thanks.

On 09/12/16 15:37, Martin Brown wrote:
You need to cycle the battery every couple of weeks or so or the
chemistry will get stuck in a charged but forgotten how to discharge
state. That means when you do need to use it the remaining battery
capacity is a tiny fraction of its nominal rating. No problem if you can
always use it on mains power but a nuisance when travelling.

This is an urban myth that applied to (some) eary nickel chemistry. It
is completely untrue for lithium ion batteries.

These like to be left neither charged nor discharged.

They will self discharge over a few years, so need recharging every -
say - 6 months.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
john west wrote:
There's a lot of information about that if you keep a Laptop battery
charged between only 80% full and only 40% full, it will be servicable
over the years for four times as long.

Other information I find says it is the charging and discharging that
wears the battery out.

The laptop i have (with a built in battery) is mainly used in one room,
so it is easy to keep it plugged in *all the time* to mains electricity.

Would it be better to prolong the life of the battery to keep it plugged
in all the time or to go for the 80% - 40% option. Thanks.

It depends on the charger in the laptop. I have an Acer laptop - not the
cheapest they did - which cooks the battery if left in the machine. So I
remove it when not needed. A better designed one wouldn't cause problems.

Yeah, I have a Compaq that I chose to leave permanently on charge 24/7/365
which saw the battery last for well over a decade now. The double capacity
battery
has only just died and I have gone back to the original normal capacity
battery.

On 09/12/2016 11:24, john west wrote:
There's a lot of information about that if you keep a Laptop battery
charged between only 80% full and only 40% full, it will be servicable
over the years for four times as long.

Other information I find says it is the charging and discharging that
wears the battery out.

The laptop i have (with a built in battery) is mainly used in one room,
so it is easy to keep it plugged in *all the time* to mains electricity.

Would it be better to prolong the life of the battery to keep it plugged
in all the time or to go for the 80% - 40% option. Thanks.



I have my laptop on a docking station ... so always keeps it charged to 100%

On 09/12/2016 13:37, Martin Brown wrote:
ll the time or to go for the 80% - 40% option. Thanks.

You need to cycle the battery every couple of weeks or so or the
chemistry will get stuck in a charged but forgotten how to discharge
state. That means when you do need to use it the remaining battery
capacity is a tiny fraction of its nominal rating. No problem if you can
always use it on mains power but a nuisance when travelling.



Charging memory is supposed to have disappeared years ago - modern
chemistry much better

whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 9 December 2016 15:18:14 UTC, Davey wrote:
Next question: Which battery suppliers are good, and which are to be
avoided? Or should I buy a proper Samsung battery?

difficult Q considering the problems they are having with soem of their
exploding phones and washing machines catching fire. In theory gettign an
original battery from a trusted supplier would be the best bet.

Samsung is essentially a country. Just because one bit makes a bad product
doesn't mean all of it does. It's not like the phone and washing machine
departments are going to have anything in common, beyond senior management
and contributing to the same balance sheet. Would you not sail in a Samsung
ship because they have a problem with exploding phones?

Anyway, if you want it to last buy an original manufacturer battery.
There's way too many junk batteries being churned out of China. The quality
of a battery is measured in the number of cycles it can do, which you won't
find out until several years down the track. A cheap battery (or a cheap
battery with an expensive price tag) might do 100-200 cycles before capacity
drops, when the OEM battery does 1000. This means you have to view all
aftermarket batteries with suspicion because you just can't tell.

The last non-OEM battery I bought, they got rather fed up of me after the
third claim on the year's warranty...

Theo

"rick" wrote in message
news
On 09/12/2016 13:37, Martin Brown wrote:
ll the time or to go for the 80% - 40% option. Thanks.

You need to cycle the battery every couple of weeks or so or the
chemistry will get stuck in a charged but forgotten how to discharge
state. That means when you do need to use it the remaining battery
capacity is a tiny fraction of its nominal rating. No problem if you can
always use it on mains power but a nuisance when travelling.



Charging memory is supposed to have disappeared years ago - modern
chemistry much better


What about leaving the charger connected to the laptop when it's not being
used, effectively charging a full battery. Does that damage the battery over
time?

Each laptop I've owned (successively: Win XP, Vista, 7) I've tried to be
really careful to do all the right things and none of the wrong things:

- only connect to the mains to charge the battery and sometimes while using
the laptop

- normally run the laptop down to about half charge and then top up again,
repeating that cycle if I'm using the laptop for a prolonged period

- run the laptop down to zero charge every few days

But each one has eventually, after a couple of years, suffered from
gradually reduced battery capacity that has eventually led to the laptop
only being usable on mains (ie it switches off immediately the mains plug is
removed). For one of the laptops, I bought a cheap Chinese clone battery
which seemed to last about as long as the one that was originally fitted,
rather than a much shorter time as I was expecting.

Manufacturers were, respectively, Acer, HP and Samsung - though where they
source their batteries from is anyone's guess.

"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"rick" wrote in message
news
On 09/12/2016 13:37, Martin Brown wrote:
ll the time or to go for the 80% - 40% option. Thanks.

You need to cycle the battery every couple of weeks or so or the
chemistry will get stuck in a charged but forgotten how to discharge
state. That means when you do need to use it the remaining battery
capacity is a tiny fraction of its nominal rating. No problem if you can
always use it on mains power but a nuisance when travelling.



Charging memory is supposed to have disappeared years ago - modern
chemistry much better


What about leaving the charger connected to the laptop when it's not being
used, effectively charging a full battery. Does that damage the battery
over time?

It does with the worst of them. Not with the best of them.

Each laptop I've owned (successively: Win XP, Vista, 7) I've tried to be
really careful to do all the right things and none of the wrong things:

- only connect to the mains to charge the battery and sometimes while
using the laptop

- normally run the laptop down to about half charge and then top up again,
repeating that cycle if I'm using the laptop for a prolonged period

- run the laptop down to zero charge every few days

I couldnt be bothered with the one I keep in the kitchen,
decided replacement batterys were so cheap that I left the
battery in it all the time and had it plugged into the mains
all the time and had that Compaq get more than a decade
out of the double capacity battery I got for it off ebay. That
has just died a couple of months ago and I have now put
the original battery back in it and plan to use it the same way.

But each one has eventually, after a couple of years, suffered from
gradually reduced battery capacity that has eventually led to the laptop
only being usable on mains (ie it switches off immediately the mains plug
is removed). For one of the laptops, I bought a cheap Chinese clone
battery which seemed to last about as long as the one that was originally
fitted, rather than a much shorter time as I was expecting.

Manufacturers were, respectively, Acer, HP and Samsung - though where they
source their batteries from is anyone's guess.

It appears to be more about how the charging is done by the laptop.

On Friday, 9 December 2016 21:18:27 UTC, Theo wrote:


Samsung is essentially a country. Just because one bit makes a bad product
doesn't mean all of it does.

I had a Samsung bluray DVD which failed so I chucked it away and got a much superior Sony, but that did not stop me buying a £300 Samsung 1TB SSD storage drive.

In article ,
Johnny B Good wrote:
It depends on the charger in the laptop. I have an Acer laptop - not the
cheapest they did - which cooks the battery if left in the machine. So I
remove it when not needed. A better designed one wouldn't cause
problems.

Such as the (11 year old) Acer Aspire 3660 I've had on permanent
'charge' for the whole of its life to date which seems to still have
around 70% or so of its original battery capacity.

The one on mine was knackered after not much more than a year. It's a
5536. Of course if you used the battery every day - perhaps what a laptop
is meant for - having it fully charged whenever possible might be
important. Only when I Googled did I find that the battery didn't like
being left in with the laptop PS left on 24/7. So I now remove the
replacment battery when not needed.

I figure the battery has lasted this long because of the more
'sympathetic' charge maintenance routine which avoids the "Float
Charging" concept, electing instead to charge up to the 4.2v per cell
level and then leave the battery to slowly decline in voltage over the
several weeks of mains powered use before giving it a 10 or 15 minute
topping up charge.

It's odd they changed the concept of battery charging.

My 5536 was also the one where the soldering to one of the processors
failed. Luckily, found a firm who fixed it for an affordable sum. And it
seems OK now - although I've now got a better one.

--
*A journey of a thousand sites begins with a single click *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 11 Dec 2016 11:12:28 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Johnny B Good wrote:
It depends on the charger in the laptop. I have an Acer laptop - not
the cheapest they did - which cooks the battery if left in the
machine. So I remove it when not needed. A better designed one
wouldn't cause problems.

Such as the (11 year old) Acer Aspire 3660 I've had on permanent
'charge' for the whole of its life to date which seems to still have
around 70% or so of its original battery capacity.

The one on mine was knackered after not much more than a year. It's a
5536. Of course if you used the battery every day - perhaps what a
laptop is meant for - having it fully charged whenever possible might be
important. Only when I Googled did I find that the battery didn't like
being left in with the laptop PS left on 24/7. So I now remove the
replacment battery when not needed.

I figure the battery has lasted this long because of the more
'sympathetic' charge maintenance routine which avoids the "Float
Charging" concept, electing instead to charge up to the 4.2v per cell
level and then leave the battery to slowly decline in voltage over the
several weeks of mains powered use before giving it a 10 or 15 minute
topping up charge.

It's odd they changed the concept of battery charging.

I'm pretty certain I didn't spot the battery state led turning red ('out
of the blue' as it were) until after a few years of ownership. I was
already aware that the battery had, contrary to most laptop users'
experience, retained pretty well most of its original capacity. It was a
'half celled' battery pack so only offered an autonomy of 100 minutes or
so to begin with - not a problem since I wasn't anticipating any need to
use it untethered for any longer than half an hour or so any more
frequently than maybe 10 to 20 times a year.

Since that laptop was rarely disconnected from its charging brick, my
discovery of this 'topping up' charging state made me reconsider my
preconceived assumption that the battery was on a continual float
charging regime where the cells would be held at 4.2v all the time it was
connected to the charging brick.

Topping the battery up with a ten minute charge every few weeks rather
went against the notion of a constant 4.2v per cell float charging regime
and since the battery condition was so good after several years' worth of
'float charge abuse', I was forced to conclude that 'float charging' was
most definitely 'off the menu' in this case.


My 5536 was also the one where the soldering to one of the processors
failed. Luckily, found a firm who fixed it for an affordable sum. And it
seems OK now - although I've now got a better one.

The big problem with that Acer Aspire 3660 is that the 32 bit Linux
distros don't play nicely with whatever gimmickry Acer have applied to
the Intel chipset they've used.

I can install and run Linux ok, along with Kaffeine, but instead of a
mere 20W idle under win2k (I ripped out that ****e winXP MCE it had
originally been afflicted with within the first week of ownership), I was
seeing an idle consumption of 30W along with the need to manually
intervene on shutdown with the 4 second press and hold of the power
button after allowing sufficient time for Linux to flush cached data back
to the disk.

I'm now considering buying a refurbished dual HDD laptop with 1920 by
1080 HD screen sans the Microsoft tax from one of the more specialised
suppliers. I don't want to be stuck with a "Wintel" only laptop,
particularly when Microsoft have taken their ownership of *your* PC to
the even greater outrageous levels of windows 10 making the winXP '****
take' look like a harmless prank.

The modern day laptops currently available around the three to six
hundred quid mark (I paid a mere £399.97 at the Tesco Superstore for that
laptop 11 years ago) all have displays little better than the 15.4 Inch
1280 x 800 TFT Screen of that 11 year old laptop (typically with screen
resolutions of 1366 by 768 which, although sporting an extra 25Kpxel over
and above the 1024Kpxel of that ancient Acer, is actually an even less
useful display format - progress *not*!).

I was looking at upgrading to a better laptop about 3 months ago but
since I needed something guaranteed to work with a modern Linux distro,
the choice went beyond merely picking out the best bang for my buck model
from the likes of Argos and Tesco Superstore so the the upgrade 'project'
got shoved onto the back burner. It looks like I'll have to google for
the thread I started in the uk.comp.os.linux way back then to remind
myself of the excellent advice and several recommendations I received in
regard of trustworthy suppliers. :-)

--
Johnny B Good

On 12/12/16 03:38, Johnny B Good wrote:
I was looking at upgrading to a better laptop about 3 months ago but
since I needed something guaranteed to work with a modern Linux distro,
the choice went beyond merely picking out the best bang for my buck model
from the likes of Argos and Tesco Superstore so the the upgrade 'project'
got shoved onto the back burner.

This is being written on a toshiba C55-C laptop/linux Mint17 that I got
from curry's for a couple of hundred.

Cheap **** but works.

On Saturday, 10 December 2016 01:05:55 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:


It appears to be more about how the charging is done by the laptop.

I got this thanks to you.

http://ebay.eu/2gr8UTx

Simon Mason wrote

I got this thanks to you.

http://ebay.eu/2gr8UTx

You're welcome. I dont know of anyone who has regretted
getting one of those for the situation where you use that.

On Friday, 9 December 2016 21:18:27 UTC, Theo wrote:
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 9 December 2016 15:18:14 UTC, Davey wrote:
Next question: Which battery suppliers are good, and which are to be
avoided? Or should I buy a proper Samsung battery?

difficult Q considering the problems they are having with soem of their
exploding phones and washing machines catching fire. In theory gettign an
original battery from a trusted supplier would be the best bet.

Samsung is essentially a country. Just because one bit makes a bad product
doesn't mean all of it does. It's not like the phone and washing machine
departments are going to have anything in common, beyond senior management
and contributing to the same balance sheet.

And that might give you a clue.

Would you not sail in a Samsung
ship because they have a problem with exploding phones?

If the ship ran on batteries I might decide to gibe a samsung boat amiss and chgoose an iBoat.


Anyway, if you want it to last buy an original manufacturer battery.

That would be the safest option butt are you now saying that only one manufactuerer can make decnet working batteries ?

There's way too many junk batteries being churned out of China. The quality
of a battery is measured in the number of cycles it can do,

Which is, can do, is that a measure of what it can do, or a guesitmate of how many they hope it can do.



which you won't
find out until several years down the track.

or perhaps days.

A cheap battery (or a cheap
battery with an expensive price tag) might do 100-200 cycles before capacity
drops, when the OEM battery does 1000. This means you have to view all
aftermarket batteries with suspicion because you just can't tell.

That is a problem, which is why if you want to aviod such problems get the prodcuct from a relible source. If you want to risk ebay then go for it.


The last non-OEM battery I bought, they got rather fed up of me after the
third claim on the year's warranty...

I'd prefer a bettery I could use rather than a cheaper battery I'd have to keep sending back, in fact I;d be willingot pay more for a bettery in a laptop than I wopuld for one being posted back and forth :-)

On Saturday, 10 December 2016 20:16:17 UTC, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Fri, 09 Dec 2016 13:19:36 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
john west wrote:
There's a lot of information about that if you keep a Laptop battery
charged between only 80% full and only 40% full, it will be servicable
over the years for four times as long.

Other information I find says it is the charging and discharging that
wears the battery out.

The laptop i have (with a built in battery) is mainly used in one room,
so it is easy to keep it plugged in *all the time* to mains
electricity.

Would it be better to prolong the life of the battery to keep it
plugged in all the time or to go for the 80% - 40% option. Thanks.

It depends on the charger in the laptop. I have an Acer laptop - not the
cheapest they did - which cooks the battery if left in the machine. So I
remove it when not needed. A better designed one wouldn't cause
problems.

Such as the (11 year old) Acer Aspire 3660 I've had on permanent
'charge' for the whole of its life to date which seems to still have
around 70% or so of its original battery capacity.

Is there much point in having that sort of setup. Surely it would have been cheaper and better to have a desktop computer. If it never moves or is never removed from its power.


I figure the battery has lasted this long because of the more
'sympathetic' charge maintenance routine which avoids the "Float
Charging" concept, electing instead to charge up to the 4.2v per cell
level and then leave the battery to slowly decline in voltage over the
several weeks of mains powered use before giving it a 10 or 15 minute
topping up charge.

but it hasn't been used so I don't see the point.


As you can imagine, the chances of 'catching it in the act' of
'charging' on such a low duty cycle are almost zero but I did eventually
see the green battery light change to the red 'charging' state for a ten
or 15 minute period before turning green again after a few years of
ownership. Subsequent to which event, I then paid the battery charge
light a little more attention which allowed me to witness a few more of
these 'topping up' charge events over the next 5 or 6 years.

Sadly, this laptop has rather outlived its usefulness so it simply sits
perched on top of the filing cabinet where it has spent 99.99% of its 11
year life, plugged into the charger to maintain the battery whilst I
ponder its future (if any). :-(

I have old cardboard boxes in that state too.


--
Johnny B Good

On Fri, 9 Dec 2016 07:22:27 -0800 (PST)
whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 9 December 2016 15:18:14 UTC, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 9 Dec 2016 13:37:25 +0000
Martin Brown wrote:

Even so you should cycle the battery to 20% or lower and then
recharge at least once a month. I have killed plenty of laptop
batteries on continuous power. The newer chemistry is a bit more
robust but in search of ever greater energy density that margin
gets eroded again.

Would it be better to prolong the life of the battery to keep it
plugged in all the time or to go for the 80% - 40% option.
Thanks.

You need to cycle the battery every couple of weeks or so or the
chemistry will get stuck in a charged but forgotten how to
discharge state. That means when you do need to use it the
remaining battery capacity is a tiny fraction of its nominal
rating. No problem if you can always use it on mains power but a
nuisance when travelling.

That sounds like decent advice. Although I rarely need to run on
battery power, it is worth having one that will actually run. I can
buy a replacement for my dead one, and implement a serious charging
routine based on the above.

Next question: Which battery suppliers are good, and which are to be
avoided? Or should I buy a proper Samsung battery?

difficult Q considering the problems they are having with soem of
their exploding phones and washing machines catching fire. In theory
gettign an original battery from a trusted supplier would be the best
bet.


Searching online for a replacement for my Samsung comes up with:
LaptopsDirect.co.uk
offering an OEM battery, at £82. For my use, that is a lot of money,
which is not to say that it is also a lot for somebody who needs to use
his PC in the field, as I did when I was working. But then, my employer
always provided the laptop.

I have never had to buy a replacement battery before, so is
LaptopsDirect a reputable company, if I decide to get a new battery?

If not, who should I try instead?

--
Davey.

On Monday, 12 December 2016 11:45:06 UTC, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 9 Dec 2016 07:22:27 -0800 (PST)
whisky-dave wrote:

On Friday, 9 December 2016 15:18:14 UTC, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 9 Dec 2016 13:37:25 +0000
Martin Brown wrote:

Even so you should cycle the battery to 20% or lower and then
recharge at least once a month. I have killed plenty of laptop
batteries on continuous power. The newer chemistry is a bit more
robust but in search of ever greater energy density that margin
gets eroded again.

Would it be better to prolong the life of the battery to keep it
plugged in all the time or to go for the 80% - 40% option.
Thanks.

You need to cycle the battery every couple of weeks or so or the
chemistry will get stuck in a charged but forgotten how to
discharge state. That means when you do need to use it the
remaining battery capacity is a tiny fraction of its nominal
rating. No problem if you can always use it on mains power but a
nuisance when travelling.

That sounds like decent advice. Although I rarely need to run on
battery power, it is worth having one that will actually run. I can
buy a replacement for my dead one, and implement a serious charging
routine based on the above.

Next question: Which battery suppliers are good, and which are to be
avoided? Or should I buy a proper Samsung battery?

difficult Q considering the problems they are having with soem of
their exploding phones and washing machines catching fire. In theory
gettign an original battery from a trusted supplier would be the best
bet.


Searching online for a replacement for my Samsung comes up with:
LaptopsDirect.co.uk
offering an OEM battery, at £82. For my use, that is a lot of money,
which is not to say that it is also a lot for somebody who needs to use
his PC in the field, as I did when I was working. But then, my employer
always provided the laptop.

I have never had to buy a replacement battery before,

me niether.

so is
LaptopsDirect a reputable company, if I decide to get a new battery?

From looking they seem OK, you could try asking on a computer group see if anyones delt with them before. They 'look' ok having a phone number.
If I were buying a battery I;'d consider them above someone on ebay with next day despatch from china, even if they were half the price.
I've never brought a laptop always a desktop to use in the home or even at work.


If not, who should I try instead?

--
Davey.

On Mon, 12 Dec 2016 03:58:08 -0800 (PST)
whisky-dave wrote:

so is
LaptopsDirect a reputable company, if I decide to get a new
battery?

From looking they seem OK, you could try asking on a computer group
see if anyones delt with them before. They 'look' ok having a phone
number. If I were buying a battery I;'d consider them above someone
on ebay with next day despatch from china, even if they were half the
price.

Yes, I'll ask in one of the computer NGs. I agree that China and
battery technology would appear to be a dubious mix, hence my search
for a good reputation supplier.

Thanks for thoughts.

--
Davey.

On 12/12/2016 12:21, Davey wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2016 03:58:08 -0800 (PST)
whisky-dave wrote:

so is
LaptopsDirect a reputable company, if I decide to get a new
battery?

From looking they seem OK, you could try asking on a computer group
see if anyones delt with them before. They 'look' ok having a phone
number. If I were buying a battery I;'d consider them above someone
on ebay with next day despatch from china, even if they were half the
price.

Yes, I'll ask in one of the computer NGs. I agree that China and
battery technology would appear to be a dubious mix, hence my search
for a good reputation supplier.

Thanks for thoughts.

Will there links help? :

Laptops Direct Reviews - 100% Real Reviews from Shoppers Who ...
www.reevoo.com ۼ Home ۼ All Retailers
Rating: 94% - €Ž3,134 votes
Read Laptops Direct customer reviews, written only by people who bought
at Laptops Direct online. No fake reviews. All reviews are unedited and
published ...

Laptopsdirect Reviews | Customer Service Reviews of Laptopsdirect ...
https://uk.trustpilot.com ۼ Categories ۼ Electronics
Rating: 7.5/10 - €Ž1,702 reviews
Do you agree with Laptopsdirect's TrustScore? Voice your opinion today
and hear what 1702 customers have already said. | www.laptopsdirect.co.uk.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Such as the (11 year old) Acer Aspire 3660 I've had on permanent
'charge' for the whole of its life to date which seems to still have
around 70% or so of its original battery capacity.

Is there much point in having that sort of setup. Surely it would have
been cheaper and better to have a desktop computer. If it never moves or
is never removed from its power.

If they actually made one as compact as a laptop with the same size
screen, yes. And one designed to be folded up flat and moved when not in
use. In the same way as you might use a laptop on the kitchen table, etc,
then move it when eating.

--
*I will always cherish the initial misconceptions I had about you

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Davey wrote:
I agree that China and
battery technology would appear to be a dubious mix

Really? Best to stick to an English make, then. ;-)

--
*On the seventh day He brewed beer *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Monday, 12 December 2016 13:41:53 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Such as the (11 year old) Acer Aspire 3660 I've had on permanent
'charge' for the whole of its life to date which seems to still have
around 70% or so of its original battery capacity.

Is there much point in having that sort of setup. Surely it would have
been cheaper and better to have a desktop computer. If it never moves or
is never removed from its power.

If they actually made one as compact as a laptop

Like a mac mini or even a raspberry pi.

with the same size
screen, yes. And one designed to be folded up flat and moved when not in
use.

Like an iPad you mean or other tablet device or like a notebook.

In the same way as you might use a laptop on the kitchen table, etc,
then move it when eating.

Wnhy would you want to move it while eating can't you put it on your lap.
The clues in the name.

On Mon, 12 Dec 2016 12:35:51 +0000
Bod wrote:

Will there links help? :

Laptops Direct Reviews - 100% Real Reviews from Shoppers Who ...
www.reevoo.com ۼ Home ۼ All Retailers
Rating: 94% - €Ž3,134 votes
Read Laptops Direct customer reviews, written only by people who
bought at Laptops Direct online. No fake reviews. All reviews are
unedited and published ...

Laptopsdirect Reviews | Customer Service Reviews of Laptopsdirect ...
https://uk.trustpilot.com ۼ Categories ۼ Electronics
Rating: 7.5/10 - €Ž1,702 reviews
Do you agree with Laptopsdirect's TrustScore? Voice your opinion
today and hear what 1702 customers have already said. |
www.laptopsdirect.co.uk.

Yes, thanks. I had to work a lot harder to find the review on the revoo
site than on the trustpilot site, maybe I can review revoo's website
for them.
So essentially, they look ok, and they say that they offer an OEM
battery, which is an advantage (if true).
Thanks for help.

--
Davey.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 12 December 2016 13:41:53 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Such as the (11 year old) Acer Aspire 3660 I've had on permanent
'charge' for the whole of its life to date which seems to still
have around 70% or so of its original battery capacity.

Is there much point in having that sort of setup. Surely it would
have been cheaper and better to have a desktop computer. If it never
moves or is never removed from its power.

If they actually made one as compact as a laptop

Like a mac mini or even a raspberry pi.

You'd call them desktops? You obviously don't expect much from one.

with the same size screen, yes. And one designed to be folded up flat
and moved when not in use.

Like an iPad you mean or other tablet device or like a notebook.

And an iPad or notebook doesn't have a built in battery?

In the same way as you might use a laptop on the kitchen table, etc,
then move it when eating.

Wnhy would you want to move it while eating can't you put it on your
lap. The clues in the name.

I'd guess you don't own a computer. Hence only posting from work.
Otherwise you'd not post such ****e.

--
*The man who fell into an upholstery machine is fully recovered*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Davey wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2016 12:35:51 +0000
Bod wrote:

Will there links help? :

Laptops Direct Reviews - 100% Real Reviews from Shoppers Who ...
www.reevoo.com “ Home “ All Retailers
Rating: 94% - #3,134 votes
Read Laptops Direct customer reviews, written only by people who
bought at Laptops Direct online. No fake reviews. All reviews are
unedited and published ...

Laptopsdirect Reviews | Customer Service Reviews of Laptopsdirect ...
https://uk.trustpilot.com “ Categories “ Electronics
Rating: 7.5/10 - #1,702 reviews
Do you agree with Laptopsdirect's TrustScore? Voice your opinion
today and hear what 1702 customers have already said. |
www.laptopsdirect.co.uk.

Yes, thanks. I had to work a lot harder to find the review on the revoo
site than on the trustpilot site, maybe I can review revoo's website
for them.
So essentially, they look ok, and they say that they offer an OEM
battery, which is an advantage (if true).
Thanks for help.

Just make sure wherever you buy it from has a decent returns policy and
warranty. They're not going to have either if selling rubbish batteries.

--
*Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 12/12/2016 12:35, Bod wrote:
On 12/12/2016 12:21, Davey wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2016 03:58:08 -0800 (PST)
whisky-dave wrote:

so is
LaptopsDirect a reputable company, if I decide to get a new
battery?

From looking they seem OK, you could try asking on a computer group
see if anyones delt with them before. They 'look' ok having a phone
number. If I were buying a battery I;'d consider them above someone
on ebay with next day despatch from china, even if they were half the
price.

Yes, I'll ask in one of the computer NGs. I agree that China and
battery technology would appear to be a dubious mix, hence my search
for a good reputation supplier.

Thanks for thoughts.

Will these links help? :

Laptops Direct Reviews - 100% Real Reviews from Shoppers Who ...
www.reevoo.com ۼ Home ۼ All Retailers
Rating: 94% - €Ž3,134 votes
Read Laptops Direct customer reviews, written only by people who bought
at Laptops Direct online. No fake reviews. All reviews are unedited and
published ...

Laptopsdirect Reviews | Customer Service Reviews of Laptopsdirect ...
https://uk.trustpilot.com ۼ Categories ۼ Electronics
Rating: 7.5/10 - €Ž1,702 reviews
Do you agree with Laptopsdirect's TrustScore? Voice your opinion today
and hear what 1702 customers have already said. | www.laptopsdirect.co.uk.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 10 December 2016 20:16:17 UTC, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Fri, 09 Dec 2016 13:19:36 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
john west wrote:
There's a lot of information about that if you keep a Laptop battery
charged between only 80% full and only 40% full, it will be servicable
over the years for four times as long.

Other information I find says it is the charging and discharging that
wears the battery out.

The laptop i have (with a built in battery) is mainly used in one
room,
so it is easy to keep it plugged in *all the time* to mains
electricity.

Would it be better to prolong the life of the battery to keep it
plugged in all the time or to go for the 80% - 40% option. Thanks.

It depends on the charger in the laptop. I have an Acer laptop - not
the
cheapest they did - which cooks the battery if left in the machine. So
I
remove it when not needed. A better designed one wouldn't cause
problems.

Such as the (11 year old) Acer Aspire 3660 I've had on permanent
'charge' for the whole of its life to date which seems to still have
around 70% or so of its original battery capacity.

Is there much point in having that sort of setup. Surely it would have
been cheaper and better to have a desktop computer. If it never moves or
is never removed from its power.

Depends, a laptop has its own UPS.

I figure the battery has lasted this long because of the more
'sympathetic' charge maintenance routine which avoids the "Float
Charging" concept, electing instead to charge up to the 4.2v per cell
level and then leave the battery to slowly decline in voltage over the
several weeks of mains powered use before giving it a 10 or 15 minute
topping up charge.

but it hasn't been used so I don't see the point.


As you can imagine, the chances of 'catching it in the act' of
'charging' on such a low duty cycle are almost zero but I did eventually
see the green battery light change to the red 'charging' state for a ten
or 15 minute period before turning green again after a few years of
ownership. Subsequent to which event, I then paid the battery charge
light a little more attention which allowed me to witness a few more of
these 'topping up' charge events over the next 5 or 6 years.

Sadly, this laptop has rather outlived its usefulness so it simply sits
perched on top of the filing cabinet where it has spent 99.99% of its 11
year life, plugged into the charger to maintain the battery whilst I
ponder its future (if any). :-(

I have old cardboard boxes in that state too.

On Monday, 12 December 2016 16:45:11 UTC, bm wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 10 December 2016 20:16:17 UTC, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Fri, 09 Dec 2016 13:19:36 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
john west wrote:
There's a lot of information about that if you keep a Laptop battery
charged between only 80% full and only 40% full, it will be servicable
over the years for four times as long.

Other information I find says it is the charging and discharging that
wears the battery out.

The laptop i have (with a built in battery) is mainly used in one
room,
so it is easy to keep it plugged in *all the time* to mains
electricity.

Would it be better to prolong the life of the battery to keep it
plugged in all the time or to go for the 80% - 40% option. Thanks.

It depends on the charger in the laptop. I have an Acer laptop - not
the
cheapest they did - which cooks the battery if left in the machine. So
I
remove it when not needed. A better designed one wouldn't cause
problems.

Such as the (11 year old) Acer Aspire 3660 I've had on permanent
'charge' for the whole of its life to date which seems to still have
around 70% or so of its original battery capacity.

Is there much point in having that sort of setup. Surely it would have
been cheaper and better to have a desktop computer. If it never moves or
is never removed from its power.

Depends, a laptop has its own UPS.

and downs in that it can be stolen more easily and damaged more easily and is usually more expensive for a lower spec'd computer. I'm not sure people, buy laptops because they have build-in UPS.
I thought they were bought for protability.