I have moderately hard water and it would be good to use a water softener. I like the idea of an electronic one that doesn't add chemicals. It descales the pipes and taps as I understand.

Vulcan 3000 has been recommended to me by my bathroom showroom. It's around £600 and there are cheaper alternatives.

So - how effective is an electronic descaler? Anyone have experiences and views?

On 30/11/2016 11:21, Eusebius wrote:
I have moderately hard water and it would be good to use a water
softener. I like the idea of an electronic one that doesn't add
chemicals. It descales the pipes and taps as I understand.

Vulcan 3000 has been recommended to me by my bathroom showroom. It's
around £600 and there are cheaper alternatives.

So - how effective is an electronic descaler? Anyone have experiences
and views?

Just the same as most other sorts of overpriced "chemical free" snake
oil sold mainly to separate the worried well from their money.

http://www.waterionizer.org/products...-descaler.html

(not a recommendation)

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

If you want soft water, you'll need a proper deioniser. And resign
yourself to shovelling mountains of salt.

On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 03:21:38 -0800, Eusebius wrote:

I have moderately hard water and it would be good to use a water
softener. I like the idea of an electronic one that doesn't add
chemicals. It descales the pipes and taps as I understand.

Vulcan 3000 has been recommended to me by my bathroom showroom. It's
around £600 and there are cheaper alternatives.

So - how effective is an electronic descaler? Anyone have experiences
and views?


By electronic do you mean the ones which wrap a coil of wire around the
mains input and "align the electrons" in the incoming water to prevent
scale forming?

If you believe in these I have some very good nearly new Russ Andrews
interconnects for a very reasonable price. Oh, and also a bridge in London
and a tower in Paris for sale. ;-)

Personal experience? I removed one (probably not a £600 one) from the
incoming mains water here and it was all furred up inside the pipe.

We have a salt based system and the difference between this and the
electrical system is pronounced. That is, salt works and the electric
version doesn't.

Vulcan 3000 looks much the same - wrapped around the incoming pipe and
using magic/advance science. Not sure if it leaves traces of bull**** in
the water.

Think I recycled the old one; will check the shed.

Cheers


Dave R


--
AMD FX-6300 Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Personal experience? I removed one (probably not a £600 one) from the
incoming mains water here and it was all furred up inside the pipe.

We have a salt based system and the difference between this and the
electrical system is pronounced. That is, salt works and the electric
version doesn't.

Vulcan 3000 looks much the same - wrapped around the incoming pipe and
using magic/advance science. Cheers Dave R

So no takers..... I know Russ Andrews products and point well taken.

But tell me more about "furred up inside pipe"....?

On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 11:35:05 +0000
GB wrote:

If you want soft water, you'll need a proper deioniser. And resign
yourself to shovelling mountains of salt.



Or use block salt, much easier to handle. Yes, it's a little more
expensive, but worth it, in my opinion, due to the location of the
softener.

--
Davey.

In article ,
Eusebius wrote:
Personal experience? I removed one (probably not a £600 one) from the
incoming mains water here and it was all furred up inside the pipe.

We have a salt based system and the difference between this and the
electrical system is pronounced. That is, salt works and the electric
version doesn't.

Vulcan 3000 looks much the same - wrapped around the incoming pipe and
using magic/advance science. Cheers Dave R

So no takers..... I know Russ Andrews products and point well taken.

But tell me more about "furred up inside pipe"....?

"furrer up" means that there are deposits clinging to then pipe walls. In
this house, I removed a straight piece of pipe which had been in place for
60 years and I couldn't see through it. Just look inside your kettle.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

But tell me more about "furred up inside pipe"....?

"furrer up" means that there are deposits clinging to then pipe walls. In
this house, I removed a straight piece of pipe which had been in place for
60 years and I couldn't see through it. Just look inside your kettle.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

So this furring up was exactly where the wires were wrapped around the pipe to fit the descaler?

On 30/11/2016 12:27, charles wrote:
In article ,
Eusebius wrote:
Personal experience? I removed one (probably not a £600 one) from the
incoming mains water here and it was all furred up inside the pipe.

We have a salt based system and the difference between this and the
electrical system is pronounced. That is, salt works and the electric
version doesn't.

Vulcan 3000 looks much the same - wrapped around the incoming pipe and
using magic/advance science. Cheers Dave R

So no takers..... I know Russ Andrews products and point well taken.

Basically the thing works entirely by convincing people who are afraid
of "chemicals" to part with lots of their hard earned cash. You can't
blame salesman for flogging them - the bonus per sale must be enormous!

But tell me more about "furred up inside pipe"....?

"furrer up" means that there are deposits clinging to then pipe walls. In
this house, I removed a straight piece of pipe which had been in place for
60 years and I couldn't see through it. Just look inside your kettle.

That is a bit surprising unless you live in an incredibly hard water
area or one with particulate clay in the supplied water. Mostly a small
amount of stuff plates out very slowly over time - except where the
water is being heated and then decomposition of the soluble bicarbonate
to insoluble carbonate plates out lime mostly on the heating element or
the heat exchanger until bits get thick enough to flake off.

Kettle elements being the obvious place where you see it in action.

It was the protective effect of hard water that made lead pipes pretty
much inert after a few years. The inside surface coated with lime.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 30/11/2016 11:21, Eusebius wrote:
I have moderately hard water and it would be good to use a water softener. I like the idea of an electronic one that doesn't add chemicals. It descales the pipes and taps as I understand.

Vulcan 3000 has been recommended to me by my bathroom showroom. It's around £600 and there are cheaper alternatives.

So - how effective is an electronic descaler? Anyone have experiences and views?

Get a real softener, they last many years and give effective results.

On 30/11/2016 14:05, Huge wrote:
On 2016-11-30, MrCheerful wrote:
On 30/11/2016 11:21, Eusebius wrote:
I have moderately hard water and it would be good to use a water softener. I like the idea of an electronic one that doesn't add chemicals. It descales the pipes and taps as I understand.

Vulcan 3000 has been recommended to me by my bathroom showroom. It's around £600 and there are cheaper alternatives.

So - how effective is an electronic descaler? Anyone have experiences and views?

Get a real softener, they last many years and give effective results.

Precisely.

And it's perfectly safe to drink softened water.


We chose not to drink softened water, but instead run a reverse osmosis
filter system for drinking water, straight off the hard water supply, we
like it and the kettle never gets any scale. The immersion heater
element was in full time use for over thirty years until I retired it,
still in good order. Washing machine internals are still nearly as new
at twenty years old, washing powder use is very low and clothes are soft
and keep nice colours, shower head never needs descaling. Bubbles to
wash with, the list of advantages go on.
I was raised in a house with an ancient permutit softener, and a
softener was the second or third luxury item we bought when we got our
own house

On 30/11/16 14:21, MrCheerful wrote:
On 30/11/2016 14:05, Huge wrote:
On 2016-11-30, MrCheerful wrote:
On 30/11/2016 11:21, Eusebius wrote:
I have moderately hard water and it would be good to use a water
softener. I like the idea of an electronic one that doesn't add
chemicals. It descales the pipes and taps as I understand.

Vulcan 3000 has been recommended to me by my bathroom showroom. It's
around £600 and there are cheaper alternatives.

So - how effective is an electronic descaler? Anyone have
experiences and views?

Get a real softener, they last many years and give effective results.

Precisely.

And it's perfectly safe to drink softened water.


We chose not to drink softened water, but instead run a reverse osmosis
filter system for drinking water, straight off the hard water supply, we
like it and the kettle never gets any scale. The immersion heater
element was in full time use for over thirty years until I retired it,
still in good order. Washing machine internals are still nearly as new
at twenty years old, washing powder use is very low and clothes are soft
and keep nice colours, shower head never needs descaling. Bubbles to
wash with, the list of advantages go on.
I was raised in a house with an ancient permutit softener, and a
softener was the second or third luxury item we bought when we got our
own house


Once you have experience of mains pressure hot water in a nice tankload,
and softened water, you will never go back to header tanks or combis or
unsoftened washing water again.



--
"Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social
conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the
windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) "

Alan Sokal

In article ,
Eusebius wrote:
But tell me more about "furred up inside pipe"....?

"furrer up" means that there are deposits clinging to then pipe walls.
In this house, I removed a straight piece of pipe which had been in
place for 60 years and I couldn't see through it. Just look inside
your kettle.

-- from KT24 in Surrey, England

So this furring up was exactly where the wires were wrapped around the
pipe to fit the descaler?

sinmce the [ipe was insstalled in 1911 And I removed it in 1988, I doubt if
it even knew what an electric descaler was.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

In article , Martin Brown
wrote:
On 30/11/2016 12:27, charles wrote:
In article ,
Eusebius wrote:
Personal experience? I removed one (probably not a £600 one) from the
incoming mains water here and it was all furred up inside the pipe.

We have a salt based system and the difference between this and the
electrical system is pronounced. That is, salt works and the electric
version doesn't.

Vulcan 3000 looks much the same - wrapped around the incoming pipe
and using magic/advance science. Cheers Dave R

So no takers..... I know Russ Andrews products and point well taken.

Basically the thing works entirely by convincing people who are afraid
of "chemicals" to part with lots of their hard earned cash. You can't
blame salesman for flogging them - the bonus per sale must be enormous!

But tell me more about "furred up inside pipe"....?

"furrer up" means that there are deposits clinging to then pipe walls.
In this house, I removed a straight piece of pipe which had been in
place for 60 years and I couldn't see through it. Just look inside
your kettle.

That is a bit surprising unless you live in an incredibly hard water
area

I do.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 30/11/2016 15:32, Huge wrote:
On 2016-11-30, MrCheerful wrote:
On 30/11/2016 14:05, Huge wrote:
On 2016-11-30, MrCheerful wrote:
On 30/11/2016 11:21, Eusebius wrote:
I have moderately hard water and it would be good to use a water softener. I like the idea of an electronic one that doesn't add chemicals. It descales the pipes and taps as I understand.

Vulcan 3000 has been recommended to me by my bathroom showroom. It's around £600 and there are cheaper alternatives.

So - how effective is an electronic descaler? Anyone have experiences and views?

Get a real softener, they last many years and give effective results.

Precisely.

And it's perfectly safe to drink softened water.


We chose not to drink softened water, but instead run a reverse osmosis
filter system for drinking water, straight off the hard water supply, we
like it and the kettle never gets any scale. The immersion heater
element was in full time use for over thirty years until I retired it,
still in good order. Washing machine internals are still nearly as new
at twenty years old, washing powder use is very low and clothes are soft
and keep nice colours, shower head never needs descaling. Bubbles to
wash with, the list of advantages go on.
I was raised in a house with an ancient permutit softener, and a
softener was the second or third luxury item we bought when we got our
own house

Our water is so hard it's a wonder it comes out of the tap. A (proper
ion-exchange) softener was high up the list after we moved in in
February. In order to placate the kitchen installer who was muttering
about having an unsoftened supply in the kitchen, we have a Triflow tap
with hot and cold softened and filtered unsoftened, since not only is
it incredibly hard, it's also heavily chlorinated. The filtered stuff
is quite palatable, compared to the unfiltered, which is vile. I know
it's probably safe to drink, but it was nasty.





Same as here, straight off the mains it smells like a swimming pool.

On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 03:21:38 -0800 (PST), Eusebius
wrote:

So - how effective is an electronic descaler? Anyone have experiences and views?

Some years ago following a lengthy defence here by an ex-supplier of
ones using very strong permanent magnets I was sent a couple to try.
My neighbour also had an electronic one I removed to experiment with.
The test setup was basically a water supply which could be used in
once through mode or re circulating. The test device was a kettle
modified to stay at 80 deg C. Water either went through it once or
could be circulated through it many times. The kettle was cleaned with
acid, dried and weighed before each test and dried and weighed
afterwards.

The test was conducted using water passing once through the device
(the normal situation for domestic installations) and also for the
same water circulating through it many times (as found in industrial
heating environments (where there are reports that high power magnetic
devices seem to have some effect).

Water from an ion-exchange softener was used as a comparator.

The results were :-

Simply heating water (with no softener of any type) caused an increase
in weight of the kettle as calcium salts deposited on the element.

The ion exchange softener water gave no change in weight of the test
item after the test and no white deposit on the element.

The strong magnet conditioner had no detectable effect on water in a
single pass setup, calcium salts were deposited as for the no
softener/conditioner.

It had a small and barely measurable effect on the same water
circulated through it hundreds of times. A smoother film formed on
the element and it was just possible to measure a very small
difference in weight change compared with the no conditioner/softener
baseline.

The electronic softener had no effect at all in any test, the results
were exactly the same as for the baseline no softener with exactly the
same increase in weight and noticeable white encrusting deposited.

The Advertising Standards Agency regularly criticise suppliers of
electronic conditioners :-

"The ASA understands that no universally accepted theory about how
these devices operate and no evidence to support the contention that
the devices can inhibit scale formation generally exists.

You have to be joking. If I read you right you expect something with no
additives and nowhere for the scale to go to remove these components from
the pipe magically?
The best I've seen done with such devices is to create a field inside the
pipe that clumps the particles together. This then builds up in the pipe and
clogs it up. I'd most certainly not spend a penny over a tenner on something
like that. What the heck to they claim for over 600 notes? I wonder do they
also make them based on the power of a pyramid as well?
I think you need to look at what makes water hard before doing anything
else.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Eusebius" wrote in message
...
I have moderately hard water and it would be good to use a water softener. I
like the idea of an electronic one that doesn't add chemicals. It descales
the pipes and taps as I understand.

Vulcan 3000 has been recommended to me by my bathroom showroom. It's around
£600 and there are cheaper alternatives.

So - how effective is an electronic descaler? Anyone have experiences and
views?

Or changing expensive cartridges of, um, salt.. and filter materials.

No there is not an easy fix. In my humble view this is a failing of the
water industry. We of course have no proof that hard water is harmful, but
it does make one wonder that if the taps and pipes scale up in this way,
what the heck does it do to the bodys internal plumbing. Look inside your
kettle to see how much scale just gets there.

Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"GB" wrote in message
news
If you want soft water, you'll need a proper deioniser. And resign
yourself to shovelling mountains of salt.

On 30/11/2016 17:39, Brian Gaff wrote:
Or changing expensive cartridges of, um, salt.. and filter materials.

No there is not an easy fix. In my humble view this is a failing of the
water industry. We of course have no proof that hard water is harmful, but
it does make one wonder that if the taps and pipes scale up in this way,
what the heck does it do to the bodys internal plumbing. Look inside your
kettle to see how much scale just gets there.

Very little effect in humans at all. Human stomach contains hydrochloric
acid and calcium chloride is quite soluble.

We *need* soluble calcium and magnesium for healthy bones.

Very soft water or worse still deionised water can be bad for you.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Brian Gaff wrote:

If I read you right you expect something with no additives and
nowhere for the scale to go to remove these components from the pipe
magically?

Listen to the pseudo-scientific bull**** of this one

https://youtu.be/ngFgS_b9ToA

On Wednesday, 30 November 2016 18:10:07 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:

We *need* soluble calcium and magnesium for healthy bones.

Very soft water or worse still deionised water can be bad for you.

I have a water softener, it cost £1300 fitted and we drink bottled mineral water.

On 30/11/2016 11:21 AM, Eusebius wrote:
I have moderately hard water and it would be good to use a water softener. I like the idea of an electronic one that doesn't add chemicals. It descales the pipes and taps as I understand.

Vulcan 3000 has been recommended to me by my bathroom showroom. It's around £600 and there are cheaper alternatives.

So - how effective is an electronic descaler? Anyone have experiences and views?



I've read the responsible replies so, now for the lateral :-)

Viktor Schauberger is a genius with water with it's many states and
healing properties. Using one of his natural vortex cones reshapes
water. Many huge industries use his technology.

An easy read on the pH effects on the body and the foods to combat it.
http://altered-states.net/barry/update178/

Dr Jerry Tennant on Youtube gives an excellent talk on Sanitas Radio of
the absolute need to keep your body pH in balance.

Is why the seaside and the fine spray of a high waterfall gives you a
feeling of well being.


....Ray. (in for a penny)

On 30/11/2016 5:39 PM, Brian Gaff wrote:
Or changing expensive cartridges of, um, salt.. and filter materials.

No there is not an easy fix. In my humble view this is a failing of the
water industry. We of course have no proof that hard water is harmful, but
it does make one wonder that if the taps and pipes scale up in this way,
what the heck does it do to the bodys internal plumbing. Look inside your
kettle to see how much scale just gets there.

Brian



UK tap water is dead, Brian.

On 30/11/2016 6:13 PM, Simon Mason wrote:
On Wednesday, 30 November 2016 18:10:07 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:

We *need* soluble calcium and magnesium for healthy bones.

Very soft water or worse still deionised water can be bad for you.

I have a water softener, it cost £1300 fitted and we drink bottled mineral water.




Simon, look on Youtube for Bottled Water pH. There are some bad bottled
waters and a few good.

....Ray.

On Wednesday, 30 November 2016 18:55:30 UTC, RayL12 wrote:
On 30/11/2016 6:13 PM, Simon Mason wrote:
On Wednesday, 30 November 2016 18:10:07 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:

We *need* soluble calcium and magnesium for healthy bones.

Very soft water or worse still deionised water can be bad for you.

I have a water softener, it cost £1300 fitted and we drink bottled mineral water.




Simon, look on Youtube for Bottled Water pH. There are some bad bottled
waters and a few good.

...Ray.

We are using San Pellegrino at the moment and I add CaSO4 to home brew water.

On 30/11/2016 7:26 PM, Simon Mason wrote:
On Wednesday, 30 November 2016 18:55:30 UTC, RayL12 wrote:
On 30/11/2016 6:13 PM, Simon Mason wrote:
On Wednesday, 30 November 2016 18:10:07 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:

We *need* soluble calcium and magnesium for healthy bones.

Very soft water or worse still deionised water can be bad for you.

I have a water softener, it cost £1300 fitted and we drink bottled mineral water.




Simon, look on Youtube for Bottled Water pH. There are some bad bottled
waters and a few good.

...Ray.

We are using San Pellegrino at the moment and I add CaSO4 to home brew water.



Besides raising a temperature, what is the benefit in brew water?

On 30/11/2016 17:39, Brian Gaff wrote:
Or changing expensive cartridges of, um, salt.. and filter materials.

No there is not an easy fix. In my humble view this is a failing of the
water industry. We of course have no proof that hard water is harmful, but
it does make one wonder that if the taps and pipes scale up in this way,
what the heck does it do to the bodys internal plumbing. Look inside your
kettle to see how much scale just gets there.

Brian


The water industry supplies water that is safe, soft water is not safe
and they make it harder if its too soft.

People pay good money for mineral water which is just hard water.

You need the minerals in the water so if you have soft water you may
need to supplement your diet with other mineral sources.

Its usually naturally hard too, just like the water man has been
drinking for millions of years, it hardens as it passes through the ground.

On 30/11/2016 18:13, Simon Mason wrote:
On Wednesday, 30 November 2016 18:10:07 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:

We *need* soluble calcium and magnesium for healthy bones.

Very soft water or worse still deionised water can be bad for you.

I have a water softener, it cost £1300 fitted and we drink bottled mineral water.



You have to get your bacteria somewhere and bottled water is a good source.

On 30/11/2016 14:05, Huge wrote:
8

And it's perfectly safe to drink softened water.


Its safe to drink some softened water, if you drink too much it is harmful.

In article om,
dennis@home wrote:
On 30/11/2016 14:05, Huge wrote: 8

And it's perfectly safe to drink softened water.


Its safe to drink some softened water, if you drink too much it is
harmful.

my brother told me it makes disgusting tea,

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 30/11/2016 20:57, RayL12 wrote:
On 30/11/2016 7:26 PM, Simon Mason wrote:
On Wednesday, 30 November 2016 18:55:30 UTC, RayL12 wrote:
On 30/11/2016 6:13 PM, Simon Mason wrote:
On Wednesday, 30 November 2016 18:10:07 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:

We *need* soluble calcium and magnesium for healthy bones.

Very soft water or worse still deionised water can be bad for you.

I have a water softener, it cost £1300 fitted and we drink bottled
mineral water.




Simon, look on Youtube for Bottled Water pH. There are some bad bottled
waters and a few good.

...Ray.

We are using San Pellegrino at the moment and I add CaSO4 to home brew
water.



Besides raising a temperature, what is the benefit in brew water?

Burtonisation. Wikipedia has an explanation.

Cheers
--
Syd

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 30/11/2016 17:39, Brian Gaff wrote:
Or changing expensive cartridges of, um, salt.. and filter materials.

No there is not an easy fix. In my humble view this is a failing of the
water industry. We of course have no proof that hard water is harmful,
but
it does make one wonder that if the taps and pipes scale up in this way,
what the heck does it do to the bodys internal plumbing. Look inside your
kettle to see how much scale just gets there.

The water industry supplies water that is safe,

Yes.

soft water is not safe

Wrong.

and they make it harder if its too soft.

Like hell they do.

People pay good money for mineral water which is just hard water.

People pay good money for all sorts of **** which is completely useless.

You need the minerals in the water

Nope. You actually need SOME minerals, but not necessarily in the water.

so if you have soft water you may need to supplement your diet with other
mineral sources.

Hardly anyone does.

Its usually naturally hard too, just like the water man has been drinking
for millions of years,

Just as true of contaminated water as well.

it hardens as it passes through the ground.

You did get that right, likely by accident.

dennis@home wrote
Simon Mason wrote
Martin Brown wrote

We *need* soluble calcium and magnesium for healthy bones.

Very soft water or worse still deionised water can be bad for you.

I have a water softener, it cost £1300 fitted and we drink bottled
mineral water.

You have to get your bacteria somewhere

No you dont, you are in fact born with it.

and bottled water is a good source.

Like hell it is.

GB wrote

If you want soft water, you'll need a proper deioniser.

Yes.

And resign yourself to shovelling mountains of salt.

Nope. There are deionisers that dont use salt.

On Wednesday, 30 November 2016 20:57:30 UTC, RayL12 wrote:


Besides raising a temperature, what is the benefit in brew water?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewin...#Burtonisation

Brian Gaff wrote

Or changing expensive cartridges of, um, salt.. and filter materials.

No there is not an easy fix. In my humble view this is a failing of the
water industry. We of course have no proof that hard water is harmful, but
it does make one wonder that if the taps and pipes scale up in this way,
what the heck does it do to the bodys internal plumbing.

The body works completely differently. There is plenty of stuff
that doesn’t get digested and ends up in your turds. There is
no reason why minerals in the water you drink can't too.

Look inside your kettle to see how much scale just gets there.

That is a very different effect the effect of the heated element
turning soluble minerals into insoluble ones which end up
on the heating element. Nothing like that in your stomach.

"GB" wrote in message
news
If you want soft water, you'll need a proper deioniser. And resign
yourself to shovelling mountains of salt.

On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 17:39:39 -0000
"Brian Gaff" wrote:

Or changing expensive cartridges of, um, salt.. and filter materials.

No there is not an easy fix. In my humble view this is a failing of
the water industry.

In East Anglia, where the water is rated as Extremely Hard, the cost of
softening the entire water supply would exceed the country's GOP. And
there would not be enough salt in the ground to do the job.
I'll stick to softening my own household supply.

--
Davey.

Simon Mason wrote
Martin Brown wrote

We *need* soluble calcium and magnesium for healthy bones.

Very soft water or worse still deionised water can be bad for you.

I have a water softener, it cost £1300 fitted and we drink bottled mineral
water.

Mad waste of money on both counts.

On Friday, 2 December 2016 03:40:49 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
Simon Mason wrote
Martin Brown wrote

We *need* soluble calcium and magnesium for healthy bones.

Very soft water or worse still deionised water can be bad for you.

I have a water softener, it cost £1300 fitted and we drink bottled mineral
water.

Mad waste of money on both counts.

Wrong as usual.

http://www.hullwatersofteners.co.uk/...ater/save-time

On Friday, 2 December 2016 01:25:24 UTC, Davey wrote:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 17:39:39 -0000
"Brian Gaff" wrote:

Or changing expensive cartridges of, um, salt.. and filter materials.

No there is not an easy fix. In my humble view this is a failing of
the water industry.

In East Anglia, where the water is rated as Extremely Hard, the cost of
softening the entire water supply would exceed the country's GOP. And
there would not be enough salt in the ground to do the job.
I'll stick to softening my own household supply.

http://www.hullwatersofteners.co.uk/...r/hard-vs-soft