http://www.thehawthornes.org/the_lodge/barnhome.htm

Hello again
I've been out and dug a hole (inside the barn) to try and establish
how deep the footings run. I have put a photo and description on my
web site (at the bottom) - I reckon they are 2' in total - I reckon
this isn't enough? My structural engineer (who I haven't spoken to
today) told me that underpinning (if that is what is required) is not
such a bad job if you know who to ask - and needn't cost more than £3k
for a project this size.
Any thoughts/comments....?
Thanks in advance....
Si

Regards, Simon
http://www.thehawthornes.org

Simon Hawthorne wrote

Hello again
I've been out and dug a hole (inside the barn) to try and establish
how deep the footings run. I have put a photo and description on my
web site (at the bottom) - I reckon they are 2' in total - I reckon
this isn't enough? My structural engineer (who I haven't spoken to
today) told me that underpinning (if that is what is required) is not
such a bad job if you know who to ask - and needn't cost more than £3k
for a project this size.
Any thoughts/comments....?
Thanks in advance....
Si

Hi Simon - what a nice project and well done on the pictures so far. Keep them
coming please

The barn looks mid Victorian, with its King-post truss, secondary rafters and
brick footings. There has been a little rafter spread by the look of it, and
the tie bar was probably put in to arrest bulging walls, but again quite minor.
There doesn't appear to be much structural damage due to foundation movement as
far as I could see.

Why are you so concerned about the foundations? If you're not going to increase
the loading on them at all I would say there's probably no need to do anything
about them from what I can see from the pictures. But nobody here on this
newsgroup can tell you whether they are adequate or not - this depends on the
site conditions, e.g. soil type, its compressive and shear strength, moisture
content, any trees close by, ground water level etc etc. Also, we have no idea
whether you intend to increase the loading - even knocking openings can increase
the loading locally. It seems you are getting excellent advice from your
engineer - I would trust in what he says.

If it's of any interest, my house has even shallower footings than your barn,
but as they're on solid chalk they are perfectly adequate.

Hope this puts your mind at rest
Peter

"Simon Hawthorne" wrote in message
...
http://www.thehawthornes.org/the_lodge/barnhome.htm

Hello again
I've been out and dug a hole (inside the barn) to try and establish
how deep the footings run. I have put a photo and description on my
web site (at the bottom) - I reckon they are 2' in total - I reckon
this isn't enough? My structural engineer (who I haven't spoken to
today) told me that underpinning (if that is what is required) is not
such a bad job if you know who to ask - and needn't cost more than £3k
for a project this size.
Any thoughts/comments....?
Thanks in advance....

Best take down all the walls if stone. Number the stones. build a nice
strong foundation slab. Build a timber frame on it and the re-erect the
walls. If brick or wood you have problems. Try the selfbuild list, they
are the people to be with.

The FAQ is http://www.borpin.co.uk


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"Simon Hawthorne" wrote in message
...
http://www.thehawthornes.org/the_lodge/barnhome.htm

Hello again
I've been out and dug a hole (inside the barn) to try and establish
how deep the footings run. I have put a photo and description on my
web site (at the bottom) - I reckon they are 2' in total - I reckon
this isn't enough? My structural engineer (who I haven't spoken to
today) told me that underpinning (if that is what is required) is not
such a bad job if you know who to ask - and needn't cost more than £3k
for a project this size.
Any thoughts/comments....?

Talk to a local BCO I think, and ask them whether
you have to insulate the habitable areas as well.

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:25:45 -0000, "Nick Finnigan"
wrote:

Talk to a local BCO I think, and ask them whether
you have to insulate the habitable areas as well.

Hi Nick
I'd planned to do just that - using some sort of insulated
plasterboard - once the structure was fixed (roof included) - and
electric, water and gas had been bought in. I keep hearing people
talk about Celotex - am I correct in thinking this could be used to
line the brick walls.....?
Si


Regards, Simon
http://www.thehawthornes.org

"Simon Hawthorne" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:25:45 -0000, "Nick Finnigan"
wrote:

Talk to a local BCO I think, and ask them whether
you have to insulate the habitable areas as well.

I'd planned to do just that - using some sort of insulated
plasterboard - once the structure was fixed (roof included) - and
electric, water and gas had been bought in.

I'd seen, that's why I mentioned it.

I keep hearing people
talk about Celotex - am I correct in thinking this could be used to
line the brick walls.....?

In principle, but I think you want to agree the mechanism
with the BCO, and have it on the plans, and that might
affect whether they want better foundations...

"Simon Hawthorne" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:25:45 -0000, "Nick Finnigan"
wrote:

Talk to a local BCO I think, and ask them whether
you have to insulate the habitable areas as well.

Hi Nick
I'd planned to do just that - using some sort of insulated
plasterboard - once the structure was fixed (roof included) - and
electric, water and gas had been bought in. I keep hearing people
talk about Celotex - am I correct in thinking this could be used to
line the brick walls.....?

Yes. A barn is a large and expensive area to heat. You have the advantage
of being able to have thick walls without any hindrance to the living area,
and pack in insulation. Insert studs and have plasterboard over and pack
between the studs and wall the insulation.


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IMM wrote:

Best take down all the walls if stone. Number the stones. build a nice
strong foundation slab. Build a timber frame on it and the re-erect the
walls. If brick or wood you have problems. Try the selfbuild list, they
are the people to be with.

You're taking the ****, right? Do you have *any* idea how long this will
take/how much it will cost? I've seen many barn conversions, but not a
single one which had been taken down stone by stone, and put back in the
same order.

--
Grunff

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:35:08 +0000, Simon Hawthorne
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:25:45 -0000, "Nick Finnigan"
wrote:

Talk to a local BCO I think, and ask them whether
you have to insulate the habitable areas as well.

Hi Nick
I'd planned to do just that - using some sort of insulated
plasterboard - once the structure was fixed (roof included) - and
electric, water and gas had been bought in. I keep hearing people
talk about Celotex - am I correct in thinking this could be used to
line the brick walls.....?
Si


Have a look on their web site, Simon.

There are some application notes which describe the different
scenarios of use and exactly which material and the fixing method.

I used some with timber studding to line my single brick workshop as
well as to insulate the roof. The results in terms of heat
requirement are exactly as calculated.

This is a BCO discussion though, because there may be specific
construction and ventilation requirements.




Regards, Simon
http://www.thehawthornes.org

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Simon Hawthorne" wrote in message
...
http://www.thehawthornes.org/the_lodge/barnhome.htm

Hello again
I've been out and dug a hole (inside the barn) to try and establish
how deep the footings run. I have put a photo and description on my
web site (at the bottom) - I reckon they are 2' in total - I reckon
this isn't enough? My structural engineer (who I haven't spoken to
today) told me that underpinning (if that is what is required) is not
such a bad job if you know who to ask - and needn't cost more than £3k
for a project this size.
Any thoughts/comments....?
Thanks in advance....

Best take down all the walls if stone. Number the stones. build a nice
strong foundation slab. Build a timber frame on it and the re-erect the
walls. If brick or wood you have problems. Try the selfbuild list, they
are the people to be with.


Maybe that's the way they do things on Planet IMM, but obviously time and
money are not issues in that bizarre place. I've participated in a few barn
conversions, many starting with a biulding in a worse state than the
original poster's, but not one has involved removal and re-erection stone by
stone in the original sequence. Not only would it take forever, but the cost
would be astronomical. Utterly bonkers suggestion. From the posters website
it would appear that the building has stood quite happily for at least 100
years, and has more substantial footings than my old house in Norfolk used
to have. Without seeing the barn in the flesh, but based on the pictures,
I'd reckon the most it would need is underpinning.

Cheers
Clive

Simon Hawthorne wrote:

I've been out and dug a hole (inside the barn) to try and establish
how deep the footings run. I have put a photo and description on my
web site (at the bottom) - I reckon they are 2' in total - I reckon
this isn't enough?

It's more than our 70 year old house has. You need to assess whether
there's been any movement recently. If not, and if you're not intending
to add to the load (by extending upwards for instance) then you won't
need to touch the footings.

--
Grunff

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

Best take down all the walls if stone. Number the stones. build a nice
strong foundation slab. Build a timber frame on it and the re-erect the
walls. If brick or wood you have problems. Try the selfbuild list,
they
are the people to be with.

You're taking the ****, right?

Not at all.

Do you have *any* idea how long this will
take/how much it will cost?

Cheaper and faster than underpinning an old barn that is for sure. SA high
percentage of barns conversions are abandoned as the cost have escalated
because of foundation problems.

I've seen many barn conversions, but not a
single one which had been taken down stone
by stone, and put back in the same order.

Best way. Then you can budget properly and have the whole structure on one
firm modern foundation.


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IMM wrote:

Do you have *any* idea how long this will
take/how much it will cost?


Cheaper and faster than underpinning an old barn that is for sure. SA high
percentage of barns conversions are abandoned as the cost have escalated
because of foundation problems.

You're totally insane.

If it did need to be knocked down, no one *on earth* would number all
the stones and put them back in the same order. You clearly have no idea
whatsoever what this would involve.

--
Grunff

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:35:08 +0000, Simon Hawthorne
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:25:45 -0000, "Nick Finnigan"
wrote:

Talk to a local BCO I think, and ask them whether
you have to insulate the habitable areas as well.

Hi Nick
I'd planned to do just that - using some sort of insulated
plasterboard - once the structure was fixed (roof included) - and
electric, water and gas had been bought in. I keep hearing people
talk about Celotex - am I correct in thinking this could be used to
line the brick walls.....?
Si

Have a look on their web site, Simon.

There are some application notes which describe the different
scenarios of use and exactly which material and the fixing method.

I used some with timber studding to line my single brick workshop as
well as to insulate the roof. The results in terms of heat
requirement are exactly as calculated.

This is a BCO discussion though, because there may be specific
construction and ventilation requirements.

Best use a timber frame and spray-in Warmcell insulation. far better.

http://www.warmcel.com



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On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 17:28:28 +0000, Grunff wrote:

If it did need to be knocked down, no one *on earth* would number all
the stones and put them back in the same order. You clearly have no idea
whatsoever what this would involve.

A marker pen and an interest in jigsaws?

Jim Ley wrote:

A marker pen and an interest in jigsaws?

And the biggest mother "stone organiser", to store all your numbered
stones in a sensible order, and a team of carrier mules to retrieve the
stones for you in the correct order as you build ;-)

--
Grunff

"Clive Summerfield" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Simon Hawthorne" wrote in message
...
http://www.thehawthornes.org/the_lodge/barnhome.htm

Hello again
I've been out and dug a hole (inside the barn) to try and establish
how deep the footings run. I have put a photo and description on my
web site (at the bottom) - I reckon they are 2' in total - I reckon
this isn't enough? My structural engineer (who I haven't spoken to
today) told me that underpinning (if that is what is required) is not
such a bad job if you know who to ask - and needn't cost more than £3k
for a project this size.
Any thoughts/comments....?
Thanks in advance....

Best take down all the walls if stone. Number the stones. build a nice
strong foundation slab. Build a timber frame on it and the re-erect the
walls. If brick or wood you have problems. Try the selfbuild list,
they
are the people to be with.


Maybe that's the way they do things
on Planet IMM, but obviously time and
money are not issues in that bizarre place.

snip drivel

Look at the thread on this a week or so back. Someone doing just that. I
have seen a barn built this way. basically a new build with the old walls
clad around. Quite cheap and effective, and no throwing money down a deep
foundation pit.


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"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

Do you have *any* idea how long this will
take/how much it will cost?


Cheaper and faster than underpinning an old barn that is for sure. SA
high
percentage of barns conversions are abandoned as the cost have escalated
because of foundation problems.

You're totally insane.

Then many others must be as this quite common, depending on the LA.

If it did need to be knocked down, no one *on earth* would number all
the stones and put them back in the same order. You clearly have no idea
whatsoever what this would involve.

You could number them or just take them down and clad the new building with
the old stone in any order using limestone cement.


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"Jim Ley" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 17:28:28 +0000, Grunff wrote:

If it did need to be knocked down, no one *on earth* would number all
the stones and put them back in the same order. You clearly have no idea
whatsoever what this would involve.

A marker pen and an interest in jigsaws?

That is what they did to London Bridge and sent it to the USA.


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IMM wrote:

You could number them or just take them down and clad the new building with
the old stone in any order using limestone cement.

There is a whole world of difference between the two ideas you present
in that statement.

The number of stones making up a 2' thick barn wall is hugely greater
than the number of stones you need to clad a wall with a single layer -
like 5 times greater.

If you did embark on the lunacy of manually dismantling a wall stone by
stone and numbering the stones, just so that you can rebuild it in the
same pattern, it would take a team of several people several weeks.
Barns are just not knocked down this way, ever.

--
Grunff

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

You could number them or just take them down and clad the new building
with
the old stone in any order using limestone cement.

There is a whole world of difference between the two ideas you present
in that statement.

The number of stones making up a 2' thick barn wall is hugely greater
than the number of stones you need to clad a wall with a single layer -
like 5 times greater.

If you did embark on the lunacy of manually dismantling a wall stone by
stone and numbering the stones, just so that you can rebuild it in the
same pattern, it would take a team of several people several weeks.
Barns are just not knocked down this way, ever.

They are. I have seen a few. The best approach by far. A new building with
an old stone cladded outer. Never thought of it did you?


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"Grunff" wrote in message
...

If you did embark on the lunacy of manually
dismantling a wall stone by
stone
..
Barns are just not knocked down this way, ever.

Here is post from Rick Dipper on hs barn


Options
Underpin
plant in steel pillars to hold roof
rebuild

I am choosing rebuild, in block clad with orignal stone. This also resolves
issues with insulation values, and water from the soil that in places is 6
foot up the walls.


This is quite a common way to do it. Personally I would have gone SIP
panels or timber frame with superinsulation values, and then clad with the
stone.



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Thanks all for all the posts - they are so full of information - for a
newbie like me!

Nice to see all the differing opinions as well - when I sit down with
my structural engineer I'll bring all these options to the table....

Thanks again

Si


Regards, Simon
http://www.thehawthornes.org

"Simon Hawthorne" wrote in message
...

Thanks all for all the posts - they are so full of information - for a
newbie like me!

Nice to see all the differing opinions as well - when I sit down with
my structural engineer I'll bring all these options to the table....

Get in high levels of insulation otherwise it will cost a fortune to heat.
Who wants to be in their 70s and foot massive fuel bills. BY the time you
are in your 70s fuel price will have risen, so it would be even more to keep
warm.


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IMM wrote:


Here is post from Rick Dipper on hs barn


Options
Underpin
plant in steel pillars to hold roof
rebuild

I am choosing rebuild, in block clad with orignal stone. This also resolves
issues with insulation values, and water from the soil that in places is 6
foot up the walls.

Do you understand *anything* I post?!?

There's nothing wrong at all with that approach - but this isn't the
same as taking down a building stone-by-stone while numbering them, then
putting it back up in the same order on newly laid foundations.

--
Grunff

"IMM" wrote in message
...
Best take down all the walls if stone. Number the stones.

hahahahahahahah, that's brilliant, a classic

IMM, you're a natural, I've just used half a box of tissues ROFL
You should be on stage mate, preferably the first one outta town

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Clive Summerfield" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Simon Hawthorne" wrote in message
...
http://www.thehawthornes.org/the_lodge/barnhome.htm

Hello again
I've been out and dug a hole (inside the barn) to try and establish
how deep the footings run. I have put a photo and description on my
web site (at the bottom) - I reckon they are 2' in total - I reckon
this isn't enough? My structural engineer (who I haven't spoken to
today) told me that underpinning (if that is what is required) is
not
such a bad job if you know who to ask - and needn't cost more than
£3k
for a project this size.
Any thoughts/comments....?
Thanks in advance....

Best take down all the walls if stone. Number the stones. build a
nice
strong foundation slab. Build a timber frame on it and the re-erect
the
walls. If brick or wood you have problems. Try the selfbuild list,
they
are the people to be with.


Maybe that's the way they do things
on Planet IMM, but obviously time and
money are not issues in that bizarre place.

snip drivel

Look at the thread on this a week or so back. Someone doing just that. I
have seen a barn built this way. basically a new build with the old walls
clad around. Quite cheap and effective, and no throwing money down a
deep
foundation pit.


Which isn't the same as taking the thing down, stone by stone, numbering
each one and then reassembling in the reverse order. Besides which, looking
at the photos the barn is made of bricks.

Cheers
Clive

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 18:48:33 GMT, "bystander"
wrote:

IMM, you're a natural, I've just used half a box of tissues ROFL
You should be on stage mate, preferably the first one outta town

In reading the responses here I think IMM has himself used half a box
of tissues. But he hasn't been crying.....

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:


Here is post from Rick Dipper on hs barn


Options
Underpin
plant in steel pillars to hold roof
rebuild

I am choosing rebuild, in block clad with orignal stone. This also
resolves
issues with insulation values, and water from the soil that in places is
6
foot up the walls.

Do you understand *anything* I post?!?

There's nothing wrong at all with that approach - but this isn't the
same as taking down a building stone-by-stone while numbering them, then
putting it back up in the same order on newly laid foundations.

He is using "original stone".


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"Clive Summerfield" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Clive Summerfield" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Simon Hawthorne" wrote in message
...
http://www.thehawthornes.org/the_lodge/barnhome.htm

Hello again
I've been out and dug a hole (inside the barn) to try and
establish
how deep the footings run. I have put a photo and description on
my
web site (at the bottom) - I reckon they are 2' in total - I
reckon
this isn't enough? My structural engineer (who I haven't spoken
to
today) told me that underpinning (if that is what is required) is
not
such a bad job if you know who to ask - and needn't cost more than
£3k
for a project this size.
Any thoughts/comments....?
Thanks in advance....

Best take down all the walls if stone. Number the stones. build a
nice
strong foundation slab. Build a timber frame on it and the re-erect
the
walls. If brick or wood you have problems. Try the selfbuild list,
they
are the people to be with.


Maybe that's the way they do things
on Planet IMM, but obviously time and
money are not issues in that bizarre place.

snip drivel

Look at the thread on this a week or so back. Someone doing just that.
I
have seen a barn built this way. basically a new build with the old
walls
clad around. Quite cheap and effective, and no throwing money down a
deep
foundation pit.


Which isn't the same as taking the thing down, stone by stone, numbering
each one and then reassembling in the reverse order. Besides which,
looking
at the photos the barn is made of bricks.

IT is indeed, but the thread went onto rebuilds. This sort of thing happens.


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"bystander" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...
Best take down all the walls if stone. Number the stones.

hahahahahahahah, that's brilliant, a classic

This either that stupid David or Andy.


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"bystander" wrote in message
...

IMM, you're a natural, I've just used half a box of tissues ROFL
You should be on stage mate, preferably the first one outta town

Oh you are a natural. So funny. Up there with Last of The Summers Wine.
ROFLAO


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IMM wrote:

There's nothing wrong at all with that approach - but this isn't the
same as taking down a building stone-by-stone while numbering them, then
putting it back up in the same order on newly laid foundations.


He is using "original stone".

Numbered????? No.

--
Grunff

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 01:14:53 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"bystander" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...
Best take down all the walls if stone. Number the stones.

hahahahahahahah, that's brilliant, a classic

This either that stupid David or Andy.

Sorry to disappoint. I only ever post with my real name.





---

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

There's nothing wrong at all with that approach - but this isn't the
same as taking down a building stone-by-stone while numbering them, then
putting it back up in the same order on newly laid foundations.


He is using "original stone".

Numbered????? No.

If he wants exactly the same exterior appearance yes. If not then put them
anywhere. Duh!


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On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:05:13 -0000, "Peter Taylor"
wrote:

If it's of any interest, my house has even shallower footings than your barn,
but as they're on solid chalk they are perfectly adequate.

Thanks Peter - once the guy doing the drawings has finished I'll have
a meeting with the structural engineer - decide on the best way
forward....
Regards



http://www.thehawthornes.org

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 17:28:28 +0000, a particular chimpanzee named
Grunff randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

IMM wrote:
snip IMM's logical reasoned argument

You're totally insane.

No!!! You can't say that about our IMM! He's the very definition of
sensible debate on uk.d-i-y.
--
Hugo Nebula
"The fact that no-one on the internet wants a piece of this
shows you just how far you've strayed from the pack".

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 14:38:38 -0000, a particular chimpanzee named
"IMM" randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

Best take down all the walls if stone. Number the stones. build a nice
strong foundation slab. Build a timber frame on it and the re-erect the
walls.

I'm thinking maybe it's time I took Mr Man-Of-Mystery out of my kill
file. Missives like the above and http://tinyurl.com/2y489 make life
worth living.
--
Hugo Nebula
"The fact that no-one on the internet wants a piece of this
shows you just how far you've strayed from the pack".