Previous owners had fastened down an inspection chamber lid on the patio,
but the screws will not budge.
Tried numerous applications of PlusGas, and it does disappear down the
sides of the screws, which later still refuse to move at all.

Apart from keeping on with the PlusGas, are there any other ways of
persuading the screws to turn?
(Last resort: drill them out...)

The cover and sample screw can be seen he

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...tion-cover.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...over-screw.JPG

--
/\/\aurice
(Replace "nomail.afraid" by "bcs" to reply by email)

On Wed, 03 Aug 2016 17:21:10 +0000, Maurice wrote:

Previous owners had fastened down an inspection chamber lid on the
patio,
but the screws will not budge.
Tried numerous applications of PlusGas, and it does disappear down the
sides of the screws, which later still refuse to move at all.

Apart from keeping on with the PlusGas, are there any other ways of
persuading the screws to turn?
(Last resort: drill them out...)

I've found Plusgas and all the other so-called "releasing agents" to be
totally useless, to be honest.
This looks like a job for an impact driver. I'd be reasonably confident
about getting them out with one of those, having previously had
consistently good results with them.

On 03/08/2016 18:57, Cursitor Doom wrote:
I've found Plusgas and all the other so-called "releasing agents" to be
totally useless, to be honest.
This looks like a job for an impact driver. I'd be reasonably confident
about getting them out with one of those, having previously had
consistently good results with them.

I was having trouble getting a screw loose on a bracket what I did was
use my cordless drill on a low speed low torque setting and increased
gradually so it wouldnt strip the head. I was quite surprised that it
loosened it, maybe just luck but it worked.

Maurice wrote:
Previous owners had fastened down an inspection chamber lid on the
patio, but the screws will not budge.
Tried numerous applications of PlusGas, and it does disappear down
the sides of the screws, which later still refuse to move at all.

Apart from keeping on with the PlusGas, are there any other ways of
persuading the screws to turn?
(Last resort: drill them out...)

The cover and sample screw can be seen he

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...tion-cover.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...over-screw.JPG

Unscrewing the screws won't get you anywhere as it's an inset lid....the lid
just sits inside a steel tray, nothing fixes down to anything

(It's a steel tray sitting inside a steel frame, you can see the two strips
of thin steel running parallel to each other around the edge.)

It should have handles that pull up so that the whole thing, paving and all
lifts out, but the handles won't be under those screws - it looks like
they've pointed over them. You may have to scrape out the pointing inbetween
the screws to locate the lifting mechanism, maybe handles but maybe holes in
steel in which a key is inserted, not that you've got a key...

Phil L wrote:

Unscrewing the screws won't get you anywhere as it's an inset lid

Maybe you're then supposed to screw some handles or hooks or something
into the threaded holes?

Andy Burns wrote:
Phil L wrote:

Unscrewing the screws won't get you anywhere as it's an inset lid

Maybe you're then supposed to screw some handles or hooks or something
into the threaded holes?

Maybe, but in 25 years of installing these things I've never seen one like
that.

Normally, there's a black plastic strip, which is prised off with a flat
driver and underneath is a lift handle that pulls up, there's one on each
side.

Other than that, they sometimes have a welded steel plate covering about
40mm of opposite corners and this plate has a hole in it in which a suitable
shaped lump of metal is inserted and lifted.

this thing looks like the lifting mechanism is along each side inbetween
these screws - the pointing is particularly wide here....although like i
said, I've never seen one like that.

It is of course a possibility that the screws themselves are the lifting
mechanism and are not meant to be moved, I'd scrape around and under each
one and insert a suitable rope / cable / whatever and lift it out that way.

On 03/08/2016 18:21, Maurice wrote:
Previous owners had fastened down an inspection chamber lid on the patio,
but the screws will not budge.
Tried numerous applications of PlusGas, and it does disappear down the
sides of the screws, which later still refuse to move at all.

Apart from keeping on with the PlusGas, are there any other ways of
persuading the screws to turn?
(Last resort: drill them out...)

The cover and sample screw can be seen he

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...tion-cover.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...over-screw.JPG

I would have thought an impact driver after lots of Plusgas or similar.

Andy Burns wrote:
Phil L wrote:

Unscrewing the screws won't get you anywhere as it's an inset lid

Maybe you're then supposed to screw some handles or hooks or something
into the threaded holes?

Nope.

It's one of these:

http://bit.ly/2am05rv

The paving needs to come out and then be set back in after whatever needs
doing in the manhole

Phil L wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Maybe you're then supposed to screw some handles or hooks or something
into the threaded holes?

Maybe, but in 25 years of installing these things I've never seen one like
that.

Normally, there's a black plastic strip, which is prised off with a flat
driver and underneath is a lift handle that pulls up, there's one on each
side.

Indeed mine is like that, but neighbour's is more like the O/P's, we
needed a heavy duty pair of threaded manhole keys and two car jacks to
shift it.

Phil L wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Maybe you're then supposed to screw some handles or hooks or something
into the threaded holes?

Nope. It's one of these:
http://bit.ly/2am05rv

The paving needs to come out and then be set back in after whatever needs
doing in the manhole

surely not?

e.g.

http://www.manholecovers.co.uk/catalogue/recessed-steel-access-covers/double-seal-double-cover-recessed-airtight-seals

which says ...

"When unlocked screw holes act as lifting eyes"

Andy Burns wrote:
Phil L wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Maybe you're then supposed to screw some handles or hooks or
something into the threaded holes?

Nope. It's one of these:
http://bit.ly/2am05rv

The paving needs to come out and then be set back in after whatever
needs doing in the manhole

surely not?

e.g.

http://www.manholecovers.co.uk/catalogue/recessed-steel-access-covers/double-seal-double-cover-recessed-airtight-seals

which says ...

"When unlocked screw holes act as lifting eyes"

Probably.
I took the four steel bars across the corners as lifting handles.

This is not the manhole for the job, the screw down type are for lids which
are likely to come under back pressure, IE in basements etc.
Normal garden type manholes don't need to be screwed down within themselves,
there's enough weight in the paving / mortar etc inside the lid, they weigh
in at about 50kg when filled.

All plastic ones are normally screwed down as there's no weight in them

To the OP:
Good luck finding a threaded handle, well, several threaded handles really

Phil L wrote:
Maurice wrote:

Previous owners had fastened down an inspection chamber lid on the
patio, but the screws will not budge.
Tried numerous applications of PlusGas, and it does disappear down
the sides of the screws, which later still refuse to move at all.

Apart from keeping on with the PlusGas, are there any other ways of
persuading the screws to turn?
(Last resort: drill them out...)

The cover and sample screw can be seen he

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...tion-cover.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...over-screw.JPG

Unscrewing the screws won't get you anywhere as it's an inset lid....the lid
just sits inside a steel tray, nothing fixes down to anything

(It's a steel tray sitting inside a steel frame, you can see the two strips
of thin steel running parallel to each other around the edge.)

It should have handles that pull up so that the whole thing, paving and all
lifts out, but the handles won't be under those screws - it looks like
they've pointed over them. You may have to scrape out the pointing inbetween
the screws to locate the lifting mechanism, maybe handles but maybe holes in
steel in which a key is inserted, not that you've got a key...



I think it's a sealed down tray, which is used in an indoor
location normally. I've a couple in my kitchen, which are floor screed
filled to allow for tiling over the top. The screws do hold down the
tray onto a rubber seal to prevent/reduce water leakage. I'd use a
manual impact driver very gently to break the screws loose and get them
moving. Maybe some heat will also be required.

On 03-Aug-16 9:20 PM, Phil L wrote:

To the OP:
Good luck finding a threaded handle, well, several threaded handles really

Once the 4 locking screws are undone, they might be retained within the
tray to provide something to lift?

Failing that, how about a couple of expanding bolts with eyes, and maybe
an engine hoist?

I'm sure there's scope to use an angle grinder.

On 03/08/2016 20:11, Fredxxx wrote:
On 03/08/2016 18:21, Maurice wrote:
Previous owners had fastened down an inspection chamber lid on the patio,
but the screws will not budge.
Tried numerous applications of PlusGas, and it does disappear down the
sides of the screws, which later still refuse to move at all.

Apart from keeping on with the PlusGas, are there any other ways of
persuading the screws to turn?
(Last resort: drill them out...)

The cover and sample screw can be seen he

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...tion-cover.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...over-screw.JPG

I would have thought an impact driver after lots of Plusgas or similar.


Blowtorch on the screws first? Then insert screw driver and tap the
handle with a hammer before attempting to turn them. A screwdriver with
the blade the same width as the screw helps, especially one with a long
shaft as well.

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 03/08/2016 22:08, alan_m wrote:
On 03/08/2016 20:11, Fredxxx wrote:
On 03/08/2016 18:21, Maurice wrote:
Previous owners had fastened down an inspection chamber lid on the
patio,
but the screws will not budge.
Tried numerous applications of PlusGas, and it does disappear down
the
sides of the screws, which later still refuse to move at all.

Apart from keeping on with the PlusGas, are there any other ways of
persuading the screws to turn?
(Last resort: drill them out...)

The cover and sample screw can be seen he

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...tion-cover.JPG


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...over-screw.JPG

I would have thought an impact driver after lots of Plusgas or similar.


Blowtorch on the screws first? Then insert screw driver and tap the
handle with a hammer before attempting to turn them. A screwdriver with
the blade the same width as the screw helps, especially one with a long
shaft as well.

Despite others here swearing by blowtorches, I've never been successful
with applying heat. I find whatever is binding steel against steel
simply gets stronger. Possibly the similar to cold welding, but given
the temperature more efficient.

On the other hand I've been more successful at applying shock, such as
the combination if direct impact and turning action through the use of
an impact driver.

I've often resorted to the careful drilling of a screw or bolt where
it's sheared through binding and rust.

In the OP's case, I doubt the screws are of importance given the weight
of stone.

On 03/08/16 18:21, Maurice wrote:
Previous owners had fastened down an inspection chamber lid on the patio,
but the screws will not budge.
Tried numerous applications of PlusGas, and it does disappear down the
sides of the screws, which later still refuse to move at all.

Apart from keeping on with the PlusGas, are there any other ways of
persuading the screws to turn?
(Last resort: drill them out...)

The cover and sample screw can be seen he

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...tion-cover.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...over-screw.JPG


At some risk to the stones, hot gas flame - ideally a fine very hot one
to heat the screw red hot. That will usually crack the rust, but in your
case, it *may* crack a stone too.

On 03/08/16 23:24, Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/08/16 18:21, Maurice wrote:
Previous owners had fastened down an inspection chamber lid on the patio,
but the screws will not budge.
Tried numerous applications of PlusGas, and it does disappear down the
sides of the screws, which later still refuse to move at all.

Apart from keeping on with the PlusGas, are there any other ways of
persuading the screws to turn?
(Last resort: drill them out...)

The cover and sample screw can be seen he

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...tion-cover.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...over-screw.JPG


At some risk to the stones, hot gas flame - ideally a fine very hot one
to heat the screw red hot. That will usually crack the rust, but in your
case, it *may* crack a stone too.

AND assuming there's not plastic or rubber seals present (saw someone
else's post).

Kill or cure then...!
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 03 Aug 2016 17:21:10 +0000, Maurice wrote:

Previous owners had fastened down an inspection chamber lid on the
patio,
but the screws will not budge.
Tried numerous applications of PlusGas, and it does disappear down the
sides of the screws, which later still refuse to move at all.

Apart from keeping on with the PlusGas, are there any other ways of
persuading the screws to turn?
(Last resort: drill them out...)

I've found Plusgas and all the other so-called "releasing agents" to be
totally useless, to be honest.
This looks like a job for an impact driver. I'd be reasonably confident
about getting them out with one of those, having previously had
consistently good results with them.

On 03/08/2016 19:54, Phil L wrote:
Maurice wrote:
Previous owners had fastened down an inspection chamber lid on the
patio, but the screws will not budge.
Tried numerous applications of PlusGas, and it does disappear down
the sides of the screws, which later still refuse to move at all.

Apart from keeping on with the PlusGas, are there any other ways of
persuading the screws to turn?
(Last resort: drill them out...)

The cover and sample screw can be seen he

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...tion-cover.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...over-screw.JPG

Unscrewing the screws won't get you anywhere as it's an inset lid....the lid
just sits inside a steel tray, nothing fixes down to anything



Its not going anywhere until he undoes the screws.
The screws hold the two parts together and he doesn't want to rip the
frame out.

I used to have one just like it.

Its going to be very heavy with all the paving in it.

On 8/3/2016 6:21 PM, Maurice wrote:
Previous owners had fastened down an inspection chamber lid on the patio,
but the screws will not budge.
Tried numerous applications of PlusGas, and it does disappear down the
sides of the screws, which later still refuse to move at all.

Apart from keeping on with the PlusGas, are there any other ways of
persuading the screws to turn?
(Last resort: drill them out...)

The cover and sample screw can be seen he

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...tion-cover.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...over-screw.JPG

I had the same problem with a cast alloy cover on a round plastic
inspection chamber. Possible galvanic corrosion between the steel screw,
alloy cover, brass insert, in that particular case.

I drilled them out.

On 8/3/2016 10:25 PM, Fredxxx wrote:
On 03/08/2016 22:08, alan_m wrote:

Despite others here swearing by blowtorches, I've never been successful
with applying heat. I find whatever is binding steel against steel
simply gets stronger. Possibly the similar to cold welding, but given
the temperature more efficient.


I definitely agree in this case. However it is remarkable how exhaust
fasteners come loose if you take them up to red heat with a gas axe.

In article , Tim Watts
scribeth thus
On 03/08/16 23:24, Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/08/16 18:21, Maurice wrote:
Previous owners had fastened down an inspection chamber lid on the patio,
but the screws will not budge.
Tried numerous applications of PlusGas, and it does disappear down the
sides of the screws, which later still refuse to move at all.

Apart from keeping on with the PlusGas, are there any other ways of
persuading the screws to turn?
(Last resort: drill them out...)

The cover and sample screw can be seen he

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...tion-cover.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...over-screw.JPG


At some risk to the stones, hot gas flame - ideally a fine very hot one
to heat the screw red hot. That will usually crack the rust, but in your
case, it *may* crack a stone too.

AND assuming there's not plastic or rubber seals present (saw someone
else's post).


Are they steel screws look more like Brass ones doesn't seem to be any
colouring like galvanising or rust apparent and they don't look
stainless either?..

--
Tony Sayer

On Fri, 05 Aug 2016 08:20:53 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

Are they steel screws look more like Brass ones

Yes, they do look like brass.

I do have a large 'persuader' screwdriver that seldom refuses to turn a
screw, but the blade is not quite as long as the screw slot, and none of
the
screws has shown the slightest movement (yet).

Having given them several soakings of PlusGas, will try again today.

--
/\/\aurice
(Replace "nomail.afraid" by "bcs" to reply by email)

On Wed, 03 Aug 2016 22:22:05 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

use an adjustable spanner tightened down onto the flats.

When you say "the flats", you mean the screwdriver blade, presumably, to
provide torque on the horizontal plane?

Will give that a try...

--
/\/\aurice
(Replace "nomail.afraid" by "bcs" to reply by email)

On Wed, 03 Aug 2016 21:49:52 +0100, Capitol wrote:

I'd use a manual impact driver very gently to break the screws loose and
get them moving.

Does "manual impact driver" mean hammer, by any chance?!

(Have tried tapping the screw heads with a hammer.)

--
/\/\aurice
(Replace "nomail.afraid" by "bcs" to reply by email)

On Wed, 03 Aug 2016 20:48:53 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

When unlocked screw holes act as lifting eyes"

Presumably some kind of handle that screws into the vacated threads,
but I
imagine 2 pairs would be needed, so don't see how a pair could be screwed
in for one of the lifting handles.
But given the right design I guess such a gadget could be made (but not
by
me...).

--
/\/\aurice
(Replace "nomail.afraid" by "bcs" to reply by email)

On Wed, 03 Aug 2016 20:16:53 +0100, Phil L wrote:

The paving needs to come out and then be set back in after whatever
needs doing in the manhole

What puzzles me is: What are the screws screwed into?
If they are holding the whole lid down they would need 4 flanges
projecting horizontally into the cavity, which I'm not sure I believe.

If the screws are not holding the lid in position (but simply holding the
lid
together), then perhaps it's a case of levering the lid out after
clearing
out the inset material? (if that can be done without taking the screws
out).

When we had a drain blockage last year, the guy who came to sort it out
tried to get this lid off, but simply failed to move the screws, which
presumably means he had not come across any other solution.
(Eventually discovered it was a different manhole cover that needed
lifting, which was eventually found (using a metal detector) buried under
a
layer of gravel and stones...)

--
/\/\aurice
(Replace "nomail.afraid" by "bcs" to reply by email)

On Fri, 05 Aug 2016 12:17:12 +0000, Maurice wrote:

On Wed, 03 Aug 2016 21:49:52 +0100, Capitol wrote:

I'd use a manual impact driver very gently to break the screws loose
and get them moving.

Does "manual impact driver" mean hammer, by any chance?!

It means a manual impact driver. I've had one for nearly 50 years. It
still works. Bit solid slug of metal, with a screwdriver socket in the
end, on a very big, coarse thread. Put screwdriver in screw, hold it
tight and hit the other end with a hammer.

http://goo.gl/yN4cVq


--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 05/08/16 13:17, Maurice wrote:
On Wed, 03 Aug 2016 21:49:52 +0100, Capitol wrote:

I'd use a manual impact driver very gently to break the screws loose and
get them moving.

Does "manual impact driver" mean hammer, by any chance?!

(Have tried tapping the screw heads with a hammer.)


No - probably means one of these:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...erWithBits.png

On 05/08/2016 13:23, Maurice wrote:
On Wed, 03 Aug 2016 20:48:53 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

When unlocked screw holes act as lifting eyes"

Presumably some kind of handle that screws into the vacated threads,
but I
imagine 2 pairs would be needed, so don't see how a pair could be screwed
in for one of the lifting handles.
But given the right design I guess such a gadget could be made (but not
by
me...).


I don't understand that. Surely the threaded holes are in the outer
frame which is concreted into the ground, with plain holes in the lid
for the screws to pass through? If that is the case, anything screwed
into the threaded holes wouldn't allow the lid to be lifted.

Or am I missing something?
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 05/08/2016 13:32, Maurice wrote:
On Wed, 03 Aug 2016 20:16:53 +0100, Phil L wrote:

The paving needs to come out and then be set back in after whatever
needs doing in the manhole

What puzzles me is: What are the screws screwed into?

The outer frame, this is concreted in.

If they are holding the whole lid down they would need 4 flanges
projecting horizontally into the cavity, which I'm not sure I believe.

They project outwards and are under the surrounding paving.

Maurice wrote:
On Wed, 03 Aug 2016 21:49:52 +0100, Capitol wrote:


I'd use a manual impact driver very gently to break the screws loose and
get them moving.

Does "manual impact driver" mean hammer, by any chance?!

(Have tried tapping the screw heads with a hammer.)


No, a hand held impact screwdriver, tapped with a hammer. You can
control the impact force doing it this way.

In article , Maurice
scribeth thus
On Fri, 05 Aug 2016 08:20:53 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

Are they steel screws look more like Brass ones

Yes, they do look like brass.

I do have a large 'persuader' screwdriver that seldom refuses to turn a
screw, but the blade is not quite as long as the screw slot, and none of
the
screws has shown the slightest movement (yet).

Having given them several soakings of PlusGas, will try again today.


Lets open a book re the chances of them being wrung off;-(..
--
Tony Sayer

On Fri, 05 Aug 2016 16:05:08 +0100, Roger Mills wrote:

Surely the threaded holes are in the outer frame which is concreted into
the ground, with plain holes in the lid for the screws to pass through?

No. The metal piece through which the screw sits is on the *lid*, not
the
outer frame. (There is a narrow gap between that piece of metal and the
outer
frame, which can just be seen in the photo.)

If that is the case, anything screwed into the threaded holes wouldn't
allow the lid to be lifted.

No, it wouldn't.

So if the screw goes into the lid, replacing the screw with a lifting
handle
wo†“ld seem feasible.
(If only the screws would come out and I had the right gadget to screw
in...)
--
/\/\aurice
(Replace "nomail.afraid" by "bcs" to reply by email)

On Fri, 05 Aug 2016 12:45:59 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

http://goo.gl/yN4cVq

Thank you for that, Bob! Will invest in one...

--
/\/\aurice
(Replace "nomail.afraid" by "bcs" to reply by email)

On Wed, 03 Aug 2016 22:25:08 +0100, Fredxxx wrote:

I doubt the screws are of importance given the weight of stone.

Good point! I've been wondering how removing the screws will help the
situation, unless they are fastening the lid to the frame in some way.

Supposing I got the screws out.
How does that get me nearer to lifting the lid (unless there I have a
lifting gadget that can be screwed in in their place)?

I don't see any other solution, so if I then can't find such a gadget
then
the cover will be immoveable - unless perhaps if I somehow remove all the
filling that's in the lid find something to provide sufficient lifting
grip.
--
/\/\aurice
(Replace "nomail.afraid" by "bcs" to reply by email)

On 06/08/2016 17:35, Maurice wrote:
On Fri, 05 Aug 2016 16:05:08 +0100, Roger Mills wrote:

Surely the threaded holes are in the outer frame which is concreted into
the ground, with plain holes in the lid for the screws to pass through?

No. The metal piece through which the screw sits is on the *lid*, not
the
outer frame. (There is a narrow gap between that piece of metal and the
outer
frame, which can just be seen in the photo.)


In that case, what are the screws *for*? If they don't hold the lid onto
the frame, do they simply blank off the threaded holes - until such time
as they are replaced by lifting eyes?

I'm not sure that you understood what I meant about the outer frame. The
part which is concreted into the ground will have a flange all the way
round which extends under the edges of the lid by an inch or so to
support the lid - which would otherwise fall into the hole! My hunch is
that the threaded holes are in that flange, with plain holes in the lid
itself. I don't see how you can be certain that that is not so without
taking it apart because the relevant bits are simply not visible.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Sun, 07 Aug 2016 11:05:28 +0100, Roger Mills wrote:

In that case, what are the screws *for*?

A question I keep returning to...

If they don't hold the lid onto
the frame, do they simply blank off the threaded holes - until such time
as they are replaced by lifting eyes?

Why are screws needed to keep the cover in place, though?
None of the other chambers have the screws.
So I tend to support the view given elsewhere in here that provide for
a
lifting handle to replace the screws. (I'm making enquiries about that.)

I'm not sure that you understood what I meant about the outer frame. The
part which is concreted into the ground will have a flange all the way
round which extends under the edges of the lid by an inch or so to
support the lid which would otherwise fall into the hole!

Agreed.

My hunch is that the threaded holes are in that flange, with plain
holes in
the lid itself.

I've never seen a chamber with such a projecting flange.

I don't see how you can be certain that that is not so without
taking it apart because the relevant bits are simply not visible.

Me too.

--
/\/\aurice
(Replace "nomail.afraid" by "bcs" to reply by email)

In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:
On 06/08/2016 17:35, Maurice wrote:
On Fri, 05 Aug 2016 16:05:08 +0100, Roger Mills wrote:

Surely the threaded holes are in the outer frame which is concreted into
the ground, with plain holes in the lid for the screws to pass through?

No. The metal piece through which the screw sits is on the *lid*, not
the
outer frame. (There is a narrow gap between that piece of metal and the
outer
frame, which can just be seen in the photo.)


In that case, what are the screws *for*? If they don't hold the lid onto
the frame, do they simply blank off the threaded holes - until such time
as they are replaced by lifting eyes?

I'm not sure that you understood what I meant about the outer frame. The
part which is concreted into the ground will have a flange all the way
round which extends under the edges of the lid by an inch or so to
support the lid - which would otherwise fall into the hole! My hunch is
that the threaded holes are in that flange, with plain holes in the lid
itself. I don't see how you can be certain that that is not so without
taking it apart because the relevant bits are simply not visible.


a visit to a friendly builders merchant might be sensible. See if you can
find your cover on his shelves.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 07/08/2016 12:45, Maurice wrote:


I've never seen a chamber with such a projecting flange.


I've never seen one without a flange. The flange is *under* the lid and
supports it. You can't see it when the lid is in place.

What do you suppose stops the lid falling into the chamber?

I have a similar lid in my drive - which is clad with imprinted concrete
rather than crazy paving. Mine doesn't screw down though, but it *does*
have a couple of holes into which cranked T-bars can be inserted to lift
it. My holes look like what I imagine your 4 holes would look like if
you removed(!) the screws. I'll try to post some pictures tomorrow in
case they help.

Lids are only normally screwed down when they're inside a building and
need to be completely sealed against odors and surcharging. These
invariably have a rubber gasket underneath. I have a spare (cast iron -
not paved) lid and frame of that sort, and will post some pictures of
that, too, if I've got time tomorrow.
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Cheers,
Roger
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