So lets just think about what has happened in the EU since the British people voted to leave the EU....

1) The EU has now stated it will spend ‚¬1 TRILLION on building an EU Armed Forces and all states must merge their armed forces into an EU army and navy under the command of France and Germany. (Cameron said that wouldn't happen)

2) The EU has sent us a bill for an extra £34 Billion stating it is to fill a black hole in the budget (Cameron said he would not pay the last on of £1.7 billion but he did)

3) The EU are to implement directives that could destroy our shipping industry if we do a deal that involves staying in the single market

4) France is in the middle of its biggest civil uprising since the French revolution due to Labour Law Riots, wasn't the EU supposed to protect them?

5) Juncker has now push forward plans to complete the monetary union and 'ALL' states will be forced to join the Euro.

6) Our member states will be forced to scrap their national banks

7) All states must agree to taxation by the Commission.......and they propose a tax ID for everyone and banks must disclose private details

8) Whilst meanwhile here in the UK the FTSE 100 is at 6,577.83 the highest it has been since August 2015.

9) If #EUreferendum had been a General Election, Leave would have won the biggest parliamentary majority in British political history!

And yet we have 30,000 plus people marching through London saying that we have made the wrong decision to leave the corrupt EU. It really does defy all logic!

In article , harry
wrote:
So lets just think about what has happened in the EU since the British
people voted to leave the EU....

1) The EU has now stated it will spend ¤1 TRILLION on building an EU
Armed Forces and all states must merge their armed forces into an EU
army and navy under the command of France and Germany. (Cameron said
that wouldn't happen)

2) The EU has sent us a bill for an extra £34 Billion stating it is to
fill a black hole in the budget (Cameron said he would not pay the last
on of £1.7 billion but he did)

3) The EU are to implement directives that could destroy our shipping
industry if we do a deal that involves staying in the single market

4) France is in the middle of its biggest civil uprising since the
French revolution due to Labour Law Riots, wasn't the EU supposed to
protect them?

5) Juncker has now push forward plans to complete the monetary union and
'ALL' states will be forced to join the Euro.

6) Our member states will be forced to scrap their national banks

7) All states must agree to taxation by the Commission.......and they
propose a tax ID for everyone and banks must disclose private details

8) Whilst meanwhile here in the UK the FTSE 100 is at 6,577.83 the
highest it has been since August 2015.

9) If #EUreferendum had been a General Election, Leave would have won
the biggest parliamentary majority in British political history!

And yet we have 30,000 plus people marching through London saying that
we have made the wrong decision to leave the corrupt EU. It really does
defy all logic!

have you seen what has happened to the Pound?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

In article ,
says...

In article , harry
wrote:

And yet we have 30,000 plus people marching through London saying that
we have made the wrong decision to leave the corrupt EU. It really does
defy all logic!

have you seen what has happened to the Pound?

Don't pop his bubble. Killfile him and move on...

You don't want to be believing all you read and escpecially about junkers
who is about as well liked as Hitler was in amny EU countries, he has
started to show traits of megalomania, so his days are numbered.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , harry
wrote:
So lets just think about what has happened in the EU since the British
people voted to leave the EU....

1) The EU has now stated it will spend ¤1 TRILLION on building an EU
Armed Forces and all states must merge their armed forces into an EU
army and navy under the command of France and Germany. (Cameron said
that wouldn't happen)

2) The EU has sent us a bill for an extra £34 Billion stating it is to
fill a black hole in the budget (Cameron said he would not pay the last
on of £1.7 billion but he did)

3) The EU are to implement directives that could destroy our shipping
industry if we do a deal that involves staying in the single market

4) France is in the middle of its biggest civil uprising since the
French revolution due to Labour Law Riots, wasn't the EU supposed to
protect them?

5) Juncker has now push forward plans to complete the monetary union and
'ALL' states will be forced to join the Euro.

6) Our member states will be forced to scrap their national banks

7) All states must agree to taxation by the Commission.......and they
propose a tax ID for everyone and banks must disclose private details

8) Whilst meanwhile here in the UK the FTSE 100 is at 6,577.83 the
highest it has been since August 2015.

9) If #EUreferendum had been a General Election, Leave would have won
the biggest parliamentary majority in British political history!

And yet we have 30,000 plus people marching through London saying that
we have made the wrong decision to leave the corrupt EU. It really does
defy all logic!

have you seen what has happened to the Pound?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 7:36:06 AM UTC+1, harry wrote:


8) Whilst meanwhile here in the UK the FTSE 100 is at 6,577.83 the highest it has been since August 2015.


Where did this figure come from? As of 08:15 BST the figure shown he
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/e...html?index=UKX

Gives the value as 6521.72 with a high of 6528.51 (data 07-Jul-2016 08:02:10) and the previous close as 6,463.59

Looking at historical data gives higher closing values for August 2015:

03 Aug 6688.60
04 Aug 6686.60
05 Aug 6752.40
06 Aug 6747.10
07 Aug 6718.50
10 Aug 6736.20

So not really the highest since August 2015......

On Wed, 06 Jul 2016 23:36:04 -0700, harry wrote:

So lets just think about what has happened in the EU since the British
people voted to leave the EU....

This should be interesting...

1) The EU has now stated it will spend ‚¬1 TRILLION on building an EU
Armed Forces and all states must merge their armed forces into an EU
army and navy under the command of France and Germany. (Cameron said
that wouldn't happen)

No, it hasn't.
The Common Security and Defence Policy, established in 2000, has been
nudged back into life, and some of the bits of cooperation between
countries that never actually reached reality might do.
https://europa.eu/globalstrategy/en/security-defence

2) The EU has sent us a bill for an extra £34 Billion stating it is to
fill a black hole in the budget (Cameron said he would not pay the last
on of £1.7 billion but he did)

That £34bn bill was "news" in November 2014.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...u/11255493/UK-
faces-34bn-bill-for-blackhole-in-EU-budget.html

By the time of the referendum debate, it'd already been rowed back to a
£20bn "black hole", and even that was pretty much complete ********.
https://fullfact.org/economy/20bn-bl...e-eu-finances/

3) The EU are to implement directives that could destroy our shipping
industry if we do a deal that involves staying in the single market

That was "news" in November 2015.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...port/11979263/
Britains-10bn-maritime-industry-under-threat-from-EU-rules.html

It was ******** then, too. Why on earth would a single market "destroy"
our shipping industry? Is our shipping industry somehow inherently
uncompetitive with other EU countries?

4) France is in the middle of its biggest civil uprising since the
French revolution due to Labour Law Riots, wasn't the EU supposed to
protect them?

That's been going on since May.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...kes-thousands-
of-dock-workers-set-off-smoke-bomb/

B'sides, don't you think it kinda shoots the whole "EU want to make
everybody the same" logic in the foot, given that this is the French
government looking to roll back their existing caps on working hours etc?

5) Juncker has now push forward plans to complete the monetary union
and 'ALL' states will be forced to join the Euro.

Apart from the subtle detail that the UK had always had a non-negotiable
opt-out from the Euro, this is nothing new - it goes back to at least
2014.
https://ec.europa.eu/priorities/deep...-and-monetary-
union_en

6) Our member states will be forced to scrap their national banks

Umm, no. Countries in the Eurozone come under the ECB, but that's it. And
we all know that reality the UK could never be forced to join the Euro,
and would only ever do so if the UK political will was there.

7) All states must agree to taxation by the Commission.......and they
propose a tax ID for everyone and banks must disclose private details

It makes a lot of sense to have a single tax ID that uniquely identifies
people across the entire EU. It's no more than that. And banks - even in
"secretive offshore havens" already share "private details" with tax
authorities all around the world. There are no plans whatsoever for the
EU to raise taxes directly off individuals anywhere.

8) Whilst meanwhile here in the UK the FTSE 100 is at 6,577.83 the
highest it has been since August 2015.

The FTSE100 is mostly multinationals who are benefitting massively from
the much weaker pound. Now look at the FTSE 250.

9) If #EUreferendum had been a General Election, Leave would have won
the biggest parliamentary majority in British political history!

Impossible to say, because the results weren't broken down by
constituency.

And yet we have 30,000 plus people marching through London saying that
we have made the wrong decision to leave the corrupt EU. It really does
defy all logic!

No, what defies all logic is that you actually believe that list of
complete ********, misunderstandings, and old non-news.

On 07/07/16 09:04, Adrian wrote:
Why on earth would a single market "destroy"
our shipping industry? Is our shipping industry somehow inherently
uncompetitive with other EU countries?

If it can be made so, it will be.


--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.

harry wrote

So lets just think about what has happened in the
EU since the British people voted to leave the EU....

We'll see...

1) The EU has now stated it will spend ‚¬1 TRILLION on building an
EU Armed Forces and all states must merge their armed forces into
an EU army and navy under the command of France and Germany.

The EU has in fact said nothing of the sort, you silly little pathological
liar.

(Cameron said that wouldn't happen)

It won't either, you watch.

2) The EU has sent us a bill for an extra £34 Billion
stating it is to fill a black hole in the budget

And now that Britain is leaving the EU, it is free to
make an obscene gesture in the general direction of
the EU and toss that bill in the bin where it belongs.

(Cameron said he would not pay the last on of £1.7 billion but he did)

3) The EU are to implement directives that could destroy our shipping
industry

More of your lies, you silly little pathological liar.

And Britain has sweet **** all of a shipping industry anyway.

if we do a deal that involves staying in the single market

More of your lies, you silly little pathological liar.

More of your lies. There is no requirement to have anything
to do with EU directives to stay in the single market.

4) France is in the middle of its biggest civil uprising
since the French revolution due to Labour Law Riots,

More of your lies, you silly little pathological liar.

wasn't the EU supposed to protect them?

Nope, France is free to do what it likes with those
changes they are making to their labour laws.

5) Juncker has now push forward plans to complete the monetary union

And it remains to be seen how long he gets any say on anything at all.

and 'ALL' states will be forced to join the Euro.

More of your lies, you silly little pathological liar.

6) Our member states will be forced to scrap their national banks

More of your lies, you silly little pathological liar.

7) All states must agree to taxation by the Commission.......

More of your lies, you silly little pathological liar.

and they propose a tax ID for everyone
and banks must disclose private details

More of your lies, you silly little pathological liar.

8) Whilst meanwhile here in the UK the FTSE 100 is
at 6,577.83 the highest it has been since August 2015.

And the pound is at the lowest it has been for
a hell of a long time now. Good for exporters.

9) If #EUreferendum had been a General Election, Leave would have
won the biggest parliamentary majority in British political history!

Even sillier than you usually manage.

And yet we have 30,000 plus people marching through London saying
that we have made the wrong decision to leave the corrupt EU.

Hardly surprising given that you lot march at the drop of a hat.

It really does defy all logic!

You wouldnt know what logic was if it bit you on your lying lard arse.

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , harry
wrote:
So lets just think about what has happened in the EU since the British
people voted to leave the EU....

1) The EU has now stated it will spend ¤1 TRILLION on building an EU
Armed Forces and all states must merge their armed forces into an EU
army and navy under the command of France and Germany. (Cameron said
that wouldn't happen)

2) The EU has sent us a bill for an extra £34 Billion stating it is to
fill a black hole in the budget (Cameron said he would not pay the last
on of £1.7 billion but he did)

3) The EU are to implement directives that could destroy our shipping
industry if we do a deal that involves staying in the single market

4) France is in the middle of its biggest civil uprising since the
French revolution due to Labour Law Riots, wasn't the EU supposed to
protect them?

5) Juncker has now push forward plans to complete the monetary union and
'ALL' states will be forced to join the Euro.

6) Our member states will be forced to scrap their national banks

7) All states must agree to taxation by the Commission.......and they
propose a tax ID for everyone and banks must disclose private details

8) Whilst meanwhile here in the UK the FTSE 100 is at 6,577.83 the
highest it has been since August 2015.

9) If #EUreferendum had been a General Election, Leave would have won
the biggest parliamentary majority in British political history!

And yet we have 30,000 plus people marching through London saying that
we have made the wrong decision to leave the corrupt EU. It really does
defy all logic!

have you seen what has happened to the Pound?

Who cares. Very good for exports. Holidays out of Britain cost more ?
Hardly the end of civilisation as we know it any time soon.

On 07/07/16 09:46, Huge wrote:
On 2016-07-07, wrote:
On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 7:36:06 AM UTC+1, harry wrote:


8) Whilst meanwhile here in the UK the FTSE 100 is at 6,577.83 the highest it has been since August 2015.


Where did this figure come from? As of 08:15 BST the figure shown he
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/e...html?index=UKX

Gives the value as 6521.72 with a high of 6528.51 (data 07-Jul-2016 08:02:10) and the previous close as 6,463.59

Looking at historical data gives higher closing values for August 2015:

03 Aug 6688.60
04 Aug 6686.60
05 Aug 6752.40
06 Aug 6747.10
07 Aug 6718.50
10 Aug 6736.20

So not really the highest since August 2015......

Brexiters lie. It's what they do.


Of course Huge if you actually bothered to READ what was written and you
actually had English as a first language, you would realised that what
s1mon said was not inconsistent with the original claim.

What about 'the highest it has been since (when it was higher)' do you
both not understand?


No one ever said 'higher than it was in August 2015'

If he had managed to find a higher figure in *September 2015*, of course
then his point would be made.

Remainers are so stupid.
And they do lie so much.


--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

On Thu, 07 Jul 2016 08:46:56 +0000, Huge wrote:

On 2016-07-07, wrote:
On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 7:36:06 AM UTC+1, harry wrote:


8) Whilst meanwhile here in the UK the FTSE 100 is at 6,577.83 the
highest it has been since August 2015.


Where did this figure come from? As of 08:15 BST the figure shown he
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/e...html?index=UKX

Gives the value as 6521.72 with a high of 6528.51 (data 07-Jul-2016
08:02:10) and the previous close as 6,463.59

Looking at historical data gives higher closing values for August 2015:

03 Aug 6688.60
04 Aug 6686.60
05 Aug 6752.40
06 Aug 6747.10
07 Aug 6718.50
10 Aug 6736.20

So not really the highest since August 2015......

Brexiters lie. It's what they do.

As did the Remainers & "Project Fear".

plonk

--
So, the UK €œBrexited€� and the sky didnt fall in. Sensible people (no matter
how they voted) are now turning their attention to the opportunities opening up
for Britain in the wider world, including China.
-- RT-UK News --

On Thu, 7 Jul 2016 18:23:26 +1000, " Hector" wrote:

snip

Hardly the end of civilisation as we know it any time soon.

Why do 'some people' have to take things to extremes as the real world
is rarely like that?

There is no doubt that the whole Brexit thing *is* going to cause a
load of upheaval, delay and cost. No one knows how much or for how
long that will last (if not for ever). It may even cost lives (it's
already cost one that I know of) because with any major change there
will be winners and losers.

Cheers, T i m

On 07-Jul-16 7:36 AM, harry wrote:
So lets just think about what has happened in the EU since the British people voted to leave the EU....

1) The EU has now stated it will spend ‚¬1 TRILLION on building an EU Armed Forces and all states must merge their armed forces into an EU army and navy under the command of France and Germany. (Cameron said that wouldn't happen)

Nor is it likely to, despite increased discussion following the
referendum. Every state has a veto on that plan and a number of them are
not at all enthusiastic about it.

3) The EU are to implement directives that could destroy our shipping industry if we do a deal that involves staying in the single market

Which Directive is that and how will it destroy our shipping industry?

4) France is in the middle of its biggest civil uprising since the French revolution due to Labour Law Riots, wasn't the EU supposed to protect them?

France is going through the same problems as we did under Maggie, for
much the same reasons - the unions have grown too strong.

5) Juncker has now push forward plans to complete the monetary union and 'ALL' states will be forced to join the Euro.

Apart from Denmark and the UK, which are legally protected from having
to adopt the Euro, that has always been a condition of joining the EU.

6) Our member states will be forced to scrap their national banks

That is not what banking union means and it only applies within the
Eurozone.

7) All states must agree to taxation by the Commission

Would you like to point out where there is any legal basis for the EU
Commission to raise taxes?

.......and they propose a tax ID for everyone and banks must disclose private details...

That is part of the initiative against tax evasion and there are similar
provisions already in place that require UK banks to disclose customer
details under tax laws, anti-terrorist laws and for certain Police
enquiries.



--
--

Colin Bignell

"Now we've left the EUSSR" ....

You're going to effing well SHUT UP?!?! No??

You're going to do your bit to working towards a New Understanding
between the two opposing camps?? No?


BTW Harry -- we have *not* left the EU yet: has nobody told you?


Bye. You and TNP used to have interesting and valuable arguments about
your solar panels and all that, but the last couple of years you have
both become alien monsters in this group.

John

On Thursday, 7 July 2016 07:40:05 UTC+1, charles wrote:



have you seen what has happened to the Pound?

has someone converted it to Kilograms ;-)

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 07/07/16 09:04, Adrian wrote:
Why on earth would a single market "destroy"
our shipping industry? Is our shipping industry somehow inherently
uncompetitive with other EU countries?

If it can be made so,

It can't under the WTO rules that even the EU has signed up to.

it will be.

Nope.

" Hector" wrote in message ...


Who cares. Very good for exports. Holidays out of Britain cost more ?
Hardly the end of civilisation as we know it any time soon.

As "we" know it ?

How would you know ?

Living in a corrugated iron shack in the middle of
nowhere, with nothing to look at out of the window,
but the odd flea bitten kangaroo bouncing past if
you're lucky.


michael adams

....

On 07/07/16 10:22, Another John wrote:
"Now we've left the EUSSR" ....

You're going to effing well SHUT UP?!?! No??

You're going to do your bit to working towards a New Understanding
between the two opposing camps?? No?


BTW Harry -- we have *not* left the EU yet: has nobody told you?


Bye. You and TNP used to have interesting and valuable arguments about
your solar panels and all that, but the last couple of years you have
both become alien monsters in this group.

Don't lump me with harry. I oppose everything he says except one thing:

WE - the western world, not the UK - have an existential political and
cultural crisis, as well as an ongoing economic crisis.

(we don't have a climate change crisis of course)

This of us who understand that point have moved heaven and earth to get
the UK into a lifeboat.

If you don't believe that we have that problem, you will of course be
grumpy.

The seats aren't as comfortable as the deck chairs you are used to, and
you will have to start rowing.

But you will have a ringside seat to watch the Eutanic go down, and be
thankful you are no longer so attached to it.



John



--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

On Thu, 7 Jul 2016 02:23:26 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Thursday, 7 July 2016 07:40:05 UTC+1, charles wrote:



have you seen what has happened to the Pound?

has someone converted it to Kilograms ;-)

;-)

Cheers, T i m

Reason is always a kind of brute force; those who appeal to the head
rather than the heart, however pallid and polite, are necessarily men
of violence. We speak of 'touching' a man's heart, but we can do
nothing to his head but hit it. G.K. Chesterton

On 07-Jul-16 10:12 AM, Martin Barclay wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jul 2016 08:46:56 +0000, Huge wrote:
....
Brexiters lie. It's what they do.

As did the Remainers & "Project Fear".

Project Fear was a name the Leave campaigners came up with to try to
discredit the facts they had no answer to.

--
--

Colin Bignell

In article ,
Martin Barclay wrote:
Brexiters lie. It's what they do.

As did the Remainers & "Project Fear".

You expected Remainers to only give positive facts about being in the EU?
FFS, we've been in it for 40 years. If people really don't know what they
are, just where have they been hiding?

The leavers did try and give positive 'facts' about leaving. Pretty well
all suppositions or downright lies.

So giving what might be the downsides of leaving is called 'project fear'
by those who prefer to believe outright lies.

--
*Despite the cost of living, have you noticed how it remains so popular?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
T i m wrote:
There is no doubt that the whole Brexit thing *is* going to cause a
load of upheaval, delay and cost. No one knows how much or for how
long that will last (if not for ever). It may even cost lives (it's
already cost one that I know of) because with any major change there
will be winners and losers.

Do you think the poor who voted out because of high immigration in their
area will end up being winners? If so, could you please explain how?

--
*If one synchronized swimmer drowns, do the rest have to drown too?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 7 July 2016 07:40:05 UTC+1, charles wrote:



have you seen what has happened to the Pound?

has someone converted it to Kilograms ;-)

more likley microEuros

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
T i m wrote

There is no doubt that the whole Brexit thing *is* going to cause a
load of upheaval, delay and cost. No one knows how much or for how
long that will last (if not for ever). It may even cost lives (it's
already cost one that I know of) because with any major change there
will be winners and losers.

Do you think the poor who voted out because of high
immigration in their area will end up being winners?

Corse they will when they don’t have to compete with the
dregs of the EU who can't put their hands out for benefits
and so need to do what the boss wants them to do.

Same with those on benefits who will have more choice
of council houses when there arent as many of the dregs
of the EU showing up with their brats getting handed
a council house to live in.

Same with those who don’t like to see so
many of the dregs of the EU all around them.

If so, could you please explain how?

Just did.

On 07/07/2016 07:36, harry wrote:

Snip more cr@p about stuff that probably won't happen and wouldn't have
happened if the UK was in the EU.

And yet we have 30,000 plus people marching through London saying
that we have made the wrong decision to leave the corrupt EU. It
really does defy all logic!


I wonder if a fully merged and armed eU would regard the UK as a threat
and invade? Now harry is scared!

On 07/07/16 11:15, Nightjar wrote:
On 07-Jul-16 10:12 AM, Martin Barclay wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jul 2016 08:46:56 +0000, Huge wrote:
....
Brexiters lie. It's what they do.

As did the Remainers & "Project Fear".

Project Fear was a name the Leave campaigners came up with to try to
discredit the facts they had no answer to.

ROFLMAO!

It was a name that was invented to describe the campaign to stay, which
had nothing positive to say about the EU, but just dire warnings - most
of which have already been proved false - about leaving.

--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

On Thu, 07 Jul 2016 11:18:40 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
There is no doubt that the whole Brexit thing *is* going to cause a
load of upheaval, delay and cost. No one knows how much or for how
long that will last (if not for ever). It may even cost lives (it's
already cost one that I know of) because with any major change there
will be winners and losers.

Do you think the poor who voted out because of high immigration in their
area will end up being winners? If so, could you please explain how?

Quite.

Cheers, T i m

On 07/07/2016 11:15, Nightjar wrote:
On 07-Jul-16 10:12 AM, Martin Barclay wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jul 2016 08:46:56 +0000, Huge wrote:
...
Brexiters lie. It's what they do.

As did the Remainers & "Project Fear".

Project Fear was a name the Leave campaigners came up with to try to
discredit the facts they had no answer to.

Given many were predictions of possible outcomes, it seems a bit strong
to call them "facts".

Much of it seemed like an exercise in cold reading - throw out a quick
succession of possible outcomes, and hope that people will only bother
to remember the ones that turn out to have some truth.

The "project fear" name did highlight what turned out to be a deciding
factor, that this decision would (unusually) be made on a wide range of
issues, and not just on the likely economic effects.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 07/07/2016 11:16, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Martin Barclay wrote:
Brexiters lie. It's what they do.

As did the Remainers & "Project Fear".

You expected Remainers to only give positive facts about being in the EU?
FFS, we've been in it for 40 years. If people really don't know what they
are, just where have they been hiding?

That is part of the difficulty - much of the good bits are seldom spoken
about, and people have little conception of what they are since in 40
years they have become part of the furniture.

What have the Romans ever done for us?

The leavers did try and give positive 'facts' about leaving. Pretty well
all suppositions or downright lies.

Again, many just a list of possible outcomes...

So giving what might be the downsides of leaving is called 'project fear'
by those who prefer to believe outright lies.

It just demonstrates that the remain camp completely misread the
motivations of the people, and did not understand what their concerns
and frustrations were.

The remain campaign was also entirely negative - i.e. if we leave, this
bad thing will happen. Never did they set out to explain what the actual
benefits of being "in" were, what areas of peoples lives were positively
influenced by EU membership and so on. The whole exercise came over as
huge exercise in arrogance which irritated many.


--
Cheers,

John.

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John Rumm wrote:

Project Fear was a name the Leave campaigners came up with to try to
discredit the facts they had no answer to.

Unfortunately, time is showing that the worst forecasts are coming true.
I see it is suggested that the pound may fall as low as equality with the
dollar.

Also, all the candidates for the Conservative leadership
(except possibly Gove)
seem to hope to recover exactly the same position with the EU
that we had before the disastrous decision to leave it.
So the entire operation would seem a complete waste of time.

--
Timothy Murphy
gayleard /at/ eircom.net
School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dubli

On 07/07/16 14:26, Timothy Murphy wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

Project Fear was a name the Leave campaigners came up with to try to
discredit the facts they had no answer to.

Unfortunately, time is showing that the worst forecasts are coming true.

No, time is showing that almost NONE of the forecaats are coming true.

I see it is suggested that the pound may fall as low as equality with the
dollar.


A suggestion is not reality and is not a fact.

Also, all the candidates for the Conservative leadership
(except possibly Gove)
seem to hope to recover exactly the same position with the EU
that we had before the disastrous decision to leave it.

Utter tosh.

So the entire operation would seem a complete waste of time.

Only to one almost brain dead.



--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
On 07/07/2016 11:16, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Martin Barclay wrote:
Brexiters lie. It's what they do.

As did the Remainers & "Project Fear".

You expected Remainers to only give positive facts about being in the
EU? FFS, we've been in it for 40 years. If people really don't know
what they are, just where have they been hiding?

That is part of the difficulty - much of the good bits are seldom spoken
about, and people have little conception of what they are since in 40
years they have become part of the furniture.

And, of course, brainwashed, by so much of the popular meja that the EU
was 'a bad thing' Indeed, I can't think off the top of my head of anything
EU related that wasn't given a 'bad for the UK' spin.

What have the Romans ever done for us?

The leavers did try and give positive 'facts' about leaving. Pretty
well all suppositions or downright lies.

Again, many just a list of possible outcomes...

Yes. 'We will spend the 350m on the NHS'. Without even a thought as to if
we would actually have that 350m as a surplus after leaving.

So giving what might be the downsides of leaving is called 'project
fear' by those who prefer to believe outright lies.

It just demonstrates that the remain camp completely misread the
motivations of the people, and did not understand what their concerns
and frustrations were.

Both sides totally misread the people. Even Farage who has spent so much
effort winding up the poor on the subject of immigration.

The remain campaign was also entirely negative - i.e. if we leave, this
bad thing will happen. Never did they set out to explain what the actual
benefits of being "in" were, what areas of peoples lives were positively
influenced by EU membership and so on. The whole exercise came over as
huge exercise in arrogance which irritated many.

Very true. But those who voted on the basis of giving the establishment a
good kicking are the same ones who will suffer the most by leaving the EU.
And that is the truth which was kept from them.

--
*Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thursday, 7 July 2016 11:21:44 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
T i m wrote:
There is no doubt that the whole Brexit thing *is* going to cause a
load of upheaval, delay and cost. No one knows how much or for how
long that will last (if not for ever). It may even cost lives (it's
already cost one that I know of) because with any major change there
will be winners and losers.

Do you think the poor who voted out because of high immigration in their
area will end up being winners? If so, could you please explain how?

I think they did partly but you seem to think only one type of person voted to leave. Not all 17 million people are the same.

You won;t understand this until you see what they see.
What they see are the wealth talking about how good immigration is for the economey.

It pushes up house prices which is good for those renting out houses.
not so good for those renting or wanting to buy.
Some workers are being priced out of the market and are expected to take pay cuts, while MPs pay increases.
Over crowding is getting to be a problem, maybe you haven't noticed, but at least it's good for the economy they tell us.
Lots of flats and hoses for sale at £350k + for a 1 bed flat and I don;t see how an economic migrant can afford such a thing.
I clean cars good doesn't sound like a high end CV to me, that could earn him the 40K+ a year he;d need to get a mortgae.

Of course they get most of their info from the media so you'd have to prove to them the media was lying and that there isn't a housing shortage and the healthcare system is better now than it was, and life is better now than it was.

In article ,
Timothy Murphy wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

Project Fear was a name the Leave campaigners came up with to try to
discredit the facts they had no answer to.

Unfortunately, time is showing that the worst forecasts are coming true.
I see it is suggested that the pound may fall as low as equality with the
dollar.

Also, all the candidates for the Conservative leadership
(except possibly Gove)
seem to hope to recover exactly the same position with the EU
that we had before the disastrous decision to leave it.

Quite. We joined a Europe free trade area for very good reasons - and
those reasons if anything are more valid today. Any subsequent
consequences of the EU merely being extremely petty regulations or
whatever. That in any case can't (or won't) be reversed.

So the entire operation would seem a complete waste of time.

Rather more than that. With a right wing government in charge, the poor
will suffer even more relatively. The same poor who swung the vote to
leave.

--
*Forget about World Peace...Visualize using your turn signal.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Project Fear was a name the Leave campaigners came up with to try to
discredit the facts they had no answer to.

Unfortunately, time is showing that the worst forecasts are coming true.

No, time is showing that almost NONE of the forecaats are coming true.

I see it is suggested that the pound may fall as low as equality with the
dollar.

A suggestion is not reality and is not a fact.

At present it has fallen to a 30-year low.
I'm sure when it hits rock bottom you will say,
"That's great. It is exactly what we expected.
Think how good it will be for exports."

Also, all the candidates for the Conservative leadership
(except possibly Gove)
seem to hope to recover exactly the same position with the EU
that we had before the disastrous decision to leave it.

Utter tosh.

Leadsom just said she wants "tariff-free trade with the EU".
The others have all said more or less the same.



--
Timothy Murphy
gayleard /at/ eircom.net
School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin

In article ,
Nightjar wrote:

On 07-Jul-16 10:12 AM, Martin Barclay wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jul 2016 08:46:56 +0000, Huge wrote:
...
Brexiters lie. It's what they do.

As did the Remainers & "Project Fear".

Project Fear was a name the Leave campaigners came up with to try to
discredit the facts they had no answer to.


And furthermore ... we won't know if they were "lying"[1] or not for a
few weeks/months yet.

[1] But it's not actually "lying" if you tell someone: "If you demolish
that wall between the kitchen and the dining room, and you don't put an
RSJ in position first, you could bring half the house down" --?

The Brexiters accuse not only Remainers, but also disinterested third
parties, of lying when they were simply stating facts.

John

On 07/07/2016 14:26, Timothy Murphy wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

Project Fear was a name the Leave campaigners came up with to try to
discredit the facts they had no answer to.

Unfortunately, time is showing that the worst forecasts are coming true.

Even if they do, that may not matter to many of those who voted leave,
since they may consider its a price worth paying for avoiding other and
possibly more serious pain later.



--
Cheers,

John.

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In article ,
John Rumm wrote:

The remain campaign was also entirely negative - i.e. if we leave, this
bad thing will happen. Never did they set out to explain what the actual
benefits of being "in" were, what areas of peoples lives were positively
influenced by EU membership and so on. The whole exercise came over as
huge exercise in arrogance which irritated many.

Exactly right! Cameron is the person to be credited most with the
Leavers' victory, precisely because -- although professing to be a
Remainer -- he never led a campaign to do as you describe above John.

Never mind: the silver lining to all of this is that a massive kick up
the pants has been dealt to politicians on both sides of the Channel. It
remains to be seen what they do about it. (They would certainly have
carried on regardless, if the vote had been that vital 4% the other way.)

And just in case anyone (TNP) thinks I'm praising the Leavers for
bringing the house down: I'm not.

J.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

....Only to one almost brain dead.

I do wish you and Harry would stop using that phrase. A "brain dead"
person would not be able to type, let alone get to grips with Usenet.

No, it's not a form of super-powerful insult: it's just another of the
very objectionable phrases that you and Harry, and others in the Leave
camp, blurt, almost in Tourette fashion, which persistently weakens your
arguments.

j.