whisky-dave wrote
John Rumm wrote
Timothy Murphy wrote
John Rumm wrote

Project Fear was a name the Leave campaigners came up
with to try to discredit the facts they had no answer to.

Unfortunately, time is showing that the worst forecasts are coming true.

Even if they do, that may not matter to many of those who
voted leave, since they may consider its a price worth paying
for avoiding other and possibly more serious pain later.

Yes I can see my foreign friends getting screwed over
when we find cheaper immigrants to replace them,

Why would Britain be able to do that with Britain out of the EU ?

but they just don't see it a possiblility

They're right.

I've a french friend that was a 'chef' at a local gastro pub,
he left because he hated it and the long hours but it seems
Jamie oliver expects his staff to work 80-120 hour weeks
and the French are fighting for a maxium of 48 hours weeks.

And now Britain is leaving the EU its free to do what likes on that stuff.

If anyoen sloking for a job there's 3 near me two chefs wanated one
in a kebab shop kebabsih chain I think, another in a fast food shop
wants a 'waitress' and anothe rsimilar food outlet wants a chef too.

Seems to be plenty of jobs going about.

Corse there are, the unemployment rate wouldnt be one
of the lowest of the majors in europe if there weren't.

And there are clearly hordes in Britain who are so
feckless that they just put their hands out for benefits
instead of moving there and taking those jobs.

In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
And it remains to be seen if that is any more than
just more utterly mindless hyperventilation.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Look. Wodney's been at the Readers Digest again. 'Increase your word power'
But couldn't understand the text.

--
*Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

dennis@home wrote
whisky-dave wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
T i m wrote

There is no doubt that the whole Brexit thing *is* going to cause a
load of upheaval, delay and cost. No one knows how much or for how long
that will last (if not for ever). It may even cost lives (it's already
cost one that I know of) because with any major change there will be
winners and losers.

Do you think the poor who voted out because of high immigration in their
area will end up being winners? If so, could you please explain how?

I think they did partly but you seem to think only one type of person
voted to leave. Not all 17 million people are the same.

You won;t understand this until you see what they see. What they see
are the wealth talking about how good immigration is for the economey.

It pushes up house prices which is good for those renting out
houses. not so good for those renting or wanting to buy. Some workers
are being priced out of the market and are expected to take pay cuts,
while MPs pay increases. Over crowding is getting to be a problem,
maybe you haven't noticed, but at least it's good for the economy
they tell us. Lots of flats and hoses for sale at £350k + for a 1 bed
flat and I don;t see how an economic migrant can afford such a
thing. I clean cars good doesn't sound like a high end CV to me, that
could earn him the 40K+ a year he;d need to get a mortgae.

While some of these things maybe true what does leaving the EU do to help
with any of them?

With Britain out of the EU it is free to only allow EU citizens
that are useful to Britain to move to Britain and that should
have some effect on the number of people coming to Britain
and the impact of those on the schools and the NHS etc.

And if it does, that is clearly Britain's fault for not doing what it
is now free to do.

Yes, there are obviously some downsides with leaving the
EU too, most obviously with the ag sector that will lose the
bulk of their subsidys from the EU CAP terminal stupidity,
but that's life, anything has downsides for some, even
staying in the EU does.

dennis@home wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Timothy Murphy wrote
John Rumm wrote

Project Fear was a name the Leave campaigners came up with to try to
discredit the facts they had no answer to.

Unfortunately, time is showing that the worst forecasts are coming true.

No, time is showing that almost NONE of the forecaats are coming true.

Talk about stupidity.

We'll see...

So far the pound has fallen as predicted.

He did say ALMOST.

Immigration has gone up and not down as leave claimed it would.

Hardly surprising that EU citizens would move to Britain while they
still can, before Britain gets to tell any of them that they can't do
that anymore. What matters with immigration is what happens to
it after Britain is free to decide which EU citizens are free to move
to Britain.

Mind you we haven't left yet so all the predictions could be true as most
of them were long term predictions and not this will happen tomorrow.

And the eurozone could implode completely and
all the claims about the reasons for staying in the
EU turn to dog **** very spectacularly indeed.

The real question is where will we be in five years time not what has
happened before we have even left.

And it isnt even clear if the eurozone will survive that long.

dennis@home wrote
John Rumm wrote
Timothy Murphy wrote
John Rumm wrote

Project Fear was a name the Leave campaigners came up with to try to
discredit the facts they had no answer to.

Unfortunately, time is showing that the worst forecasts are coming true.

Even if they do, that may not matter to many of those who voted leave,
since they may consider its a price worth paying for avoiding other and
possibly more serious pain later.

There was always the option to leave later if any of those terrible claims
weren't brexit lies.

And get to wear the downsides of the eurozone imploding completely.

MUCH harder to avoid getting involved in the desperate
attempt to bail out the eurozone with Britain still in the EU.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 07/07/2016 20:42, bert wrote:
In article . com,
lid writes
On 07/07/2016 14:51, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 7 July 2016 11:21:44 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , T i m
wrote:
There is no doubt that the whole Brexit thing *is* going to cause
a load of upheaval, delay and cost. No one knows how much or for
how long that will last (if not for ever). It may even cost lives
(it's already cost one that I know of) because with any major
change there will be winners and losers.

Do you think the poor who voted out because of high immigration in
their area will end up being winners? If so, could you please
explain how?

I think they did partly but you seem to think only one type of person
voted to leave. Not all 17 million people are the same.

You won;t understand this until you see what they see. What they see
are the wealth talking about how good immigration is for the
economey.

It pushes up house prices which is good for those renting out
houses. not so good for those renting or wanting to buy. Some workers
are being priced out of the market and are expected to take pay cuts,
while MPs pay increases. Over crowding is getting to be a problem,
maybe you haven't noticed, but at least it's good for the economy
they tell us. Lots of flats and hoses for sale at £350k + for a 1 bed
flat and I don;t see how an economic migrant can afford such a
thing. I clean cars good doesn't sound like a high end CV to me, that
could earn him the 40K+ a year he;d need to get a mortgae.

While some of these things maybe true what does leaving the EU do to
help with any of them?

It tightens the labour market which pushes up wages, and the slackest
part of that market is currently the low paid.

How does it do that?

Same way any market works.

All the (potential) leaders have stated it will have no significant effect
on immigration

That's a lie, and no 'leader' gets to
decide that anyway, the cabinet does.

so where does this tightening come from?

From Britain being able to say which EU citizens
are allowed to move to Britain to work.

I also think some wages may go up, but that will be from inflation as the
price of all our imports goes up due to the weaker pound dollar rate.

Fuel is already up in price

Off a much lower price than usual.

and many things will follow.

We'll see, and even if they, in the current low
inflation situation, hardly the end of civilisation
as we know it or even of the British economy either.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...
On 07/07/2016 20:50, bert wrote:
In article m,
lid writes
On 07/07/2016 14:30, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/07/16 14:26, Timothy Murphy wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

Project Fear was a name the Leave campaigners came up with to try to
discredit the facts they had no answer to.

Unfortunately, time is showing that the worst forecasts are coming
true.

No, time is showing that almost NONE of the forecaats are coming true.

Talk about stupidity.

So far the pound has fallen as predicted.

Immigration has gone up and not down as leave claimed it would.

Didn't claim it would go down BEFORE we had actually left the EU which
in case you hadn't noticed we haven't done yet.
Mind you we haven't left yet so all the predictions could be true as
most of them were long term predictions and not this will happen
tomorrow.

The real question is where will we be in five years time not what has
happened before we have even left.
So why are you going on about what has happened in the short term?

Do you not think the current changes are an indicator of what might happen
if we submit the quit note?

Not with arseholes like Soros around.

Timothy Murphy posted
John Rumm wrote:

Project Fear was a name the Leave campaigners came up with to try to
discredit the facts they had no answer to.

Unfortunately, time is showing that the worst forecasts are coming true.
I see it is suggested that the pound may fall as low as equality with the
dollar.

That's excellent news. I've just invoiced one of my customers for $1800.

Also, all the candidates for the Conservative leadership
(except possibly Gove)
seem to hope to recover exactly the same position with the EU
that we had before the disastrous decision to leave it.

Really?

--
Les

lid posted
On 07/07/2016 20:42, bert wrote:
It tightens the labour market which pushes up wages, and the slackest
part of that market is currently the low paid.

How does it do that?

All the (potential) leaders have stated it will have no significant
effect on immigration so where does this tightening come from?

No they haven't, and even if they had, they aren't in a position to
determine the outcome.

--
Les

Hector posted
"charles" wrote in message
...

have you seen what has happened to the Pound?

Who cares. Very good for exports. Holidays out of Britain cost more ?

But holidays in the Eurozone still cost *less* than they did three years
ago, when the GBP was much lower against the EUR than it is today.

Was anyone shouting "My God! Disaster! Cataclysm! I'll never go on
holiday to Spain again!" in August 2013? No. They weren't. They didn't
even notice.

--
Les

On 07-Jul-16 12:10 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/07/16 11:15, Nightjar wrote:
On 07-Jul-16 10:12 AM, Martin Barclay wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jul 2016 08:46:56 +0000, Huge wrote:
....
Brexiters lie. It's what they do.

As did the Remainers & "Project Fear".

Project Fear was a name the Leave campaigners came up with to try to
discredit the facts they had no answer to.

ROFLMAO!

It was a name that was invented to describe the campaign to stay, which
had nothing positive to say about the EU, but just dire warnings - most
of which have already been proved false - about leaving.

We haven't left yet, much less been out long enough to test the validity
of the warnings, which deal with the position in several years' time. Of
course, we won't be able to test whether the leave camp were right about
what will happen, as their predictions about how Britain will fare
post-Brexit were conspicuous by their absence.

--
--

Colin Bignell

"Big Les Wade" wrote in message
...
lid posted
On 07/07/2016 20:42, bert wrote:
It tightens the labour market which pushes up wages, and the slackest
part of that market is currently the low paid.

How does it do that?

All the (potential) leaders have stated it will have no significant effect
on immigration so where does this tightening come from?

No they haven't, and even if they had, they aren't in a position to
determine the outcome.

They are on what gets agreed with the EU to get free trade.

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 07-Jul-16 12:10 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/07/16 11:15, Nightjar wrote:
On 07-Jul-16 10:12 AM, Martin Barclay wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jul 2016 08:46:56 +0000, Huge wrote:
....
Brexiters lie. It's what they do.

As did the Remainers & "Project Fear".

Project Fear was a name the Leave campaigners came up with to try to
discredit the facts they had no answer to.

ROFLMAO!

It was a name that was invented to describe the campaign to stay, which
had nothing positive to say about the EU, but just dire warnings - most
of which have already been proved false - about leaving.

We haven't left yet, much less been out long enough to test the validity
of the warnings, which deal with the position in several years' time. Of
course, we won't be able to test whether the leave camp were right about
what will happen, as their predictions about how Britain will fare
post-Brexit were conspicuous by their absence.

Because they weren't silly enough to try to predict the unpredictable.

Just like you can't predict what will happen to Britain if the
eurozone implodes completely with Britain still in the EU either.

On 08/07/2016 07:39, Big Les Wade wrote:
lid posted
On 07/07/2016 20:42, bert wrote:
It tightens the labour market which pushes up wages, and the slackest
part of that market is currently the low paid.

How does it do that?

All the (potential) leaders have stated it will have no significant
effect on immigration so where does this tightening come from?

No they haven't, and even if they had, they aren't in a position to
determine the outcome.


I think you will find you are incorrect there and if all the parties
don't want to change immigration then what makes you think it will change?

The fact that about 60% of immigration has nothing to do with the EU
should tell you something about what the governments think about
immigration.
We aren't going to start an immigration war with the EU just because we
leave.
I predict that we will negotiate a free trade deal and free movement
just like we have now.

On 08/07/2016 07:42, Big Les Wade wrote:
Hector posted
"charles" wrote in message
...

have you seen what has happened to the Pound?

Who cares. Very good for exports. Holidays out of Britain cost more ?

But holidays in the Eurozone still cost *less* than they did three years
ago, when the GBP was much lower against the EUR than it is today.

Was anyone shouting "My God! Disaster! Cataclysm! I'll never go on
holiday to Spain again!" in August 2013? No. They weren't. They didn't
even notice.


They might notice if they have to stand in line for visa checks for
hours at a time.

On 08-Jul-16 9:35 AM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar" wrote in message
...

....Of course, we won't be able to test whether the leave
camp were right about what will happen, as their predictions about how
Britain will fare post-Brexit were conspicuous by their absence.

Because they weren't silly enough to try to predict the unpredictable...

Yet they were telling us that Britain would be better off out of the EU.
Are you saying that was simply blind faith?

--
--

Colin Bignell

On 08/07/16 10:15, Nightjar wrote:
On 08-Jul-16 9:35 AM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar" wrote in message
...

....Of course, we won't be able to test whether the leave
camp were right about what will happen, as their predictions about how
Britain will fare post-Brexit were conspicuous by their absence.

Because they weren't silly enough to try to predict the unpredictable...

Yet they were telling us that Britain would be better off out of the EU.
Are you saying that was simply blind faith?


Yet they were telling us that Britain would be better off in the EU.
Are you saying that was simply blind faith?


--
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
private property.

Karl Marx

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 08/07/2016 07:39, Big Les Wade wrote:
lid posted
On 07/07/2016 20:42, bert wrote:
It tightens the labour market which pushes up wages, and the slackest
part of that market is currently the low paid.

How does it do that?

All the (potential) leaders have stated it will have no significant
effect on immigration so where does this tightening come from?

No they haven't, and even if they had, they aren't in a position to
determine the outcome.


I think you will find you are incorrect there

No he isnt.

and if all the parties don't want to change immigration then what makes
you think it will change?

Even the stupidest polly has noticed that
a majority of the voters want on that.

And what matters is that both May and Leadsom have noticed
and one of them will be deciding what happens on that.

The fact that about 60% of immigration has nothing to do with the EU
should tell you something about what the governments think about
immigration.

Like hell it does when the politicians that matter want
the same system for EU citizens as with non EU citizens.

We aren't going to start an immigration war with the EU just because we
leave.

Having the same system for EU citizens
as there already is with non EU citizens is
nothing even remotely like an immigration war.

I predict that we will negotiate a free trade deal and free movement just
like we have now.

Neither May nor Leadsom is actually that stupid.

Nightjar wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Nightjar wrote

Of course, we won't be able to test whether the leave camp were
right about what will happen, as their predictions about how
Britain will fare post-Brexit were conspicuous by their absence.

Because they weren't silly enough to try to predict the unpredictable...

Yet they were telling us that Britain would be better off out of the EU.

And they were right on that with the stuff they were talking
about with that, what they called sovreignty, which basically
means that Britain gets to decide what it wants to do policy
wise instead of having that imposed on Britain by the EU.

Are you saying that was simply blind faith?

Nope, that it is completely trivial to work out what will
happen policy wise, but that it is impossible to predict what
with happen to the British economy or the eurozone either.

Even you should have noticed that NOT ONE of the so called
'experts' managed to predict what the result of Britain staying
out of the eurozone would be, or that the **** would hit the
fan very spectacularly indeed in 2008 and that when even they
can't do that, that there is no point in taking any notice of what
they claim will happen to either the British economy now or with
the eurozone either, because that is obviously unpredictable.

In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
That's a lie, and no 'leader' gets to
decide that anyway, the cabinet does.

You really don't understand politics, do you?

so where does this tightening come from?

From Britain being able to say which EU citizens
are allowed to move to Britain to work.

Which in practice might decrease EU immigration by 1% or so. If at all.

And that is simply not what the 'leavers' thought they were voting for.

--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
It was a name that was invented to describe the campaign to stay,
which had nothing positive to say about the EU, but just dire
warnings - most of which have already been proved false - about
leaving.

We haven't left yet, much less been out long enough to test the
validity of the warnings, which deal with the position in several
years' time. Of course, we won't be able to test whether the leave
camp were right about what will happen, as their predictions about
how Britain will fare post-Brexit were conspicuous by their absence.

Because they weren't silly enough to try to predict the unpredictable.

They predicted that 350m would go to the NHS if we left. Has this happed?
No.

They predicted immigration would stop. Has this happened? No.

--
*Why are they called apartments, when they're all stuck together? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote

That's a lie, and no 'leader' gets to
decide that anyway, the cabinet does.

You really don't understand politics, do you?

Understand it a hell of a lot better than you do, thanks.

so where does this tightening come from?

From Britain being able to say which EU citizens
are allowed to move to Britain to work.

Which in practice might decrease EU immigration by 1% or so. If at all.

That number is straight from your arse, we can tell from the smell.

And that is simply not what the 'leavers' thought they were voting for.

Having fun thrashing yet another straw man ?

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote:

It was a name that was invented to describe the campaign to stay,
which had nothing positive to say about the EU, but just dire warnings
- most of which have already been proved false - about leaving.

We haven't left yet, much less been out long enough to test the
validity of the warnings, which deal with the position in several
years' time. Of course, we won't be able to test whether the leave
camp were right about what will happen, as their predictions about
how Britain will fare post-Brexit were conspicuous by their absence.

Because they weren't silly enough to try to predict the unpredictable.

They predicted that 350m would go to the NHS if we left.

More of your lies, Pinocchio. Have fun citing even a single
example of anyone who matters doing anything of the sort.

Has this happed? No.

Having fun thrashing yet another straw man, Pinocchio ?

They predicted immigration would stop.

More of your lies, Pinocchio. Have fun citing even a single
example of anyone who matters doing anything of the sort.

Has this happened? No.

Having fun thrashing yet another straw man, Pinocchio ?

On 08-Jul-16 10:27 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/07/16 10:15, Nightjar wrote:
On 08-Jul-16 9:35 AM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar" wrote in message
...

....Of course, we won't be able to test whether the leave
camp were right about what will happen, as their predictions about how
Britain will fare post-Brexit were conspicuous by their absence.

Because they weren't silly enough to try to predict the unpredictable...

Yet they were telling us that Britain would be better off out of the EU.
Are you saying that was simply blind faith?


Yet they were telling us that Britain would be better off in the EU. Are
you saying that was simply blind faith?

The people predicting that gave detailed reports, with figures, that
anybody could check for themselves. That was conspicuously missing from
the leave campaign.

--
--

Colin Bignell

On 08/07/16 11:54, Nightjar wrote:
On 08-Jul-16 10:27 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/07/16 10:15, Nightjar wrote:
On 08-Jul-16 9:35 AM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar" wrote in message
...

....Of course, we won't be able to test whether the leave
camp were right about what will happen, as their predictions about how
Britain will fare post-Brexit were conspicuous by their absence.

Because they weren't silly enough to try to predict the
unpredictable...

Yet they were telling us that Britain would be better off out of the EU.
Are you saying that was simply blind faith?


Yet they were telling us that Britain would be better off in the EU. Are
you saying that was simply blind faith?

The people predicting that gave detailed reports, with figures, that
anybody could check for themselves. That was conspicuously missing from
the leave campaign.

Ah, you men like the IPPC climate change committee is full of detailed
reports with figures?

None of which have been shown to be valid...

I have a computer. How many detailed reports, with figures, would you like?

And what would you like them to say?

--
No Apple devices were knowingly used in the preparation of this post.

/R/epulsive and
/O/riginally
/D/ouble-crossing

/S/quid.
/P/erverse and
/E/verywhen
/E/xhilarating
/D/ustbin.

/R/ationally
/O/ver-decorated
/D/oo-dar.

/S/ubmissive
/P/enis priest who likes
/E/rotic
/E/arth-tremblers with
/D/rive-thru-girls.

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On Fri, 08 Jul 2016 12:03:13 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 08/07/16 11:54, Nightjar wrote:
On 08-Jul-16 10:27 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/07/16 10:15, Nightjar wrote:
On 08-Jul-16 9:35 AM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar" wrote in message
...

....Of course, we won't be able to test whether the leave camp were
right about what will happen, as their predictions about how Britain
will fare post-Brexit were conspicuous by their absence.

Because they weren't silly enough to try to predict the
unpredictable...

Yet they were telling us that Britain would be better off out of the
EU. Are you saying that was simply blind faith?


Yet they were telling us that Britain would be better off in the EU.
Are you saying that was simply blind faith?

The people predicting that gave detailed reports, with figures, that
anybody could check for themselves. That was conspicuously missing from
the leave campaign.

Ah, you men like the IPPC climate change committee is full of detailed
reports with figures?

None of which have been shown to be valid...

I have a computer. How many detailed reports, with figures, would you
like?

And what would you like them to say?

It's interesting IMO that before the Leave/Stay results were known,
Deutsche Bank (Germany's third largest) predicted that the pound would
fall (as did most Remainers) /but/ as a result of this, UK exports would
become more attractive to foreign buyers /and/ as a result, exporting
companies would do well which could encourage more shares in those
companies to be bought & thus the stock market would increase.
In a note dated June 13th, Deutsche analysts led by Sebastian Raedler
said that "British stocks would be the best-performing equities in Europe
should Britain vote for Brexit in 10 days time. We think UK equities are
set to outperform Europe in this case, given likely GBP weakness." It also
added that "that while stocks across the continent will fall, British
companies will come out relatively unscathed from Brexit vote."

In spite of all the present negativeness from the Remainers in here, it
seems their prediction was right about us leaving.

As an aside, it seems that Deutsche Bank itself is in deep trouble & that
the German government could not let it fail (shades of the UK & RBS?).
Why couldn't they let it fail? Well "The Spectator" reports that if they
/did/ let it fail, it could well take the Euro with it.


--
So, the UK €œBrexited€� and the sky /didnt/ fall in. Sensible people
(no matter how they voted) are now turning their attention to the
opportunities opening up for Britain in the wider world, including India,
and China. -- RT-UK News --

In article ,
Martin Barclay wrote:
In spite of all the present negativeness from the Remainers in here, it
seems their prediction was right about us leaving.

As an aside, it seems that Deutsche Bank itself is in deep trouble & that
the German government could not let it fail (shades of the UK & RBS?).
Why couldn't they let it fail? Well "The Spectator" reports that if they
/did/ let it fail, it could well take the Euro with it.

Good, isn't it? You expect people to take financial advice from a failing
bank. Or use that bank's predictions to back up yours.

Physician, heal thyself.

--
*Why doesn't glue stick to the inside of the bottle?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thursday, 7 July 2016 21:10:56 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 7 Jul 2016 12:11:58 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

snip

I have been in UKIP for five years.

When you say 'in' is it like when football supporters say things like
'We won the other day' (when they were actually nowhere near the game)
or do you actually have to 'join', pay membership fees, meet up
somewhere every week?

Cheers, T i m

Yes you can join. There are branch meetings at varying times depending on the political situation. Local pub.
If you want to join:-
http://join.ukip.org/JoinOnline.aspx?type=1

On 08/07/2016 14:09, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Good, isn't it? You expect people to take financial advice from a failing
bank. Or use that bank's predictions to back up yours.



And similarly we are asked to believe the predictions of those who
didn't foresee the 2008 financial crisis.

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 08-Jul-16 5:11 PM, alan_m wrote:
On 08/07/2016 14:09, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Good, isn't it? You expect people to take financial advice from a failing
bank. Or use that bank's predictions to back up yours.



And similarly we are asked to believe the predictions of those who
didn't foresee the 2008 financial crisis.


There is a basic difference between the two. Brexit is a very specific
event that required people to study it and to predict what will happen
afterwards. There was no similar imperative for the same people to
investigate whether there would be a crisis in a particular year, or
even in a particular decade. However, there were people who warned it
would happen:

http://intheblack.com/articles/2015/...em-from-now-on

--
--

Colin Bignell

On 08-Jul-16 12:03 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/07/16 11:54, Nightjar wrote:
On 08-Jul-16 10:27 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/07/16 10:15, Nightjar wrote:
On 08-Jul-16 9:35 AM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar" wrote in message
...

....Of course, we won't be able to test whether the leave
camp were right about what will happen, as their predictions about
how
Britain will fare post-Brexit were conspicuous by their absence.

Because they weren't silly enough to try to predict the
unpredictable...

Yet they were telling us that Britain would be better off out of the
EU.
Are you saying that was simply blind faith?


Yet they were telling us that Britain would be better off in the EU. Are
you saying that was simply blind faith?

The people predicting that gave detailed reports, with figures, that
anybody could check for themselves. That was conspicuously missing from
the leave campaign.

Ah, you men like the IPPC climate change committee is full of detailed
reports with figures?...

Actually, some of their figures are rather vague, particularly on how
many of their number disagreed with the conclusions, but that did allow
me to study what they claimed and to draw my own conclusions as to their
validity.

It would have been nice to see supporting evidence for the claims made
by the leave campaign, although, of course, they happily ignored people
who pointed out that the claim emblazoned on the campaign bus, that we
send £350 million a week to the EU, was false.



--
--

Colin Bignell

Nightjar wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Nightjar wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Nightjar wrote

Of course, we won't be able to test whether the leave camp were right
about what will happen, as their predictions about how
Britain will fare post-Brexit were conspicuous by their absence.

Because they weren't silly enough to try to predict the
unpredictable...

Yet they were telling us that Britain would be better off out of the EU.
Are you saying that was simply blind faith?

Yet they were telling us that Britain would be better off in the EU. Are
you saying that was simply blind faith?

The people predicting that gave detailed reports,

From the same fools that had predicted that Britain would
be better in the eurozone and didnt manage to predict that
the the world would see the worst recession since the great
depression or that much of the world financial system
would implode in 2008. With a record like that anyone
with even half a clue would have noticed that it is pointless
trying to predict the unpredictable.

with figures, that anybody could check for themselves.

No one can check figures in a PREDICTION.

That was conspicuously missing from the leave campaign.

Because they weren't actually stupid/dishonest enough to
try to claim that it is possible to predict the unpredictable.

Nightjar wrote
alan_m wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote

Good, isn't it? You expect people to take financial advice from a
failing bank. Or use that bank's predictions to back up yours.

And similarly we are asked to believe the predictions of those who didn't
foresee the 2008 financial crisis.

There is a basic difference between the two. Brexit is a very specific
event that required people to study it and to predict what will happen
afterwards.

So was the question of Britain joining the
eurozone, and they ****ed that up completely.

There was no similar imperative for the same people to investigate whether
there would be a crisis in a particular year, or even in a particular
decade.

Even sillier than you usually manage. The obvious imperative
is to organise your affairs so you wouldn’t be affected when
that happened or at the level of govt, to avoid it happening.

And you're just plain wrong in the question of deregulating
the banks too. ALL of those clowns were in favour of doing
that and ALL were too ****ing stupid to work out what the
downsides of doing that would be. NOT ONE of the Canadian
or Australian retail banks imploded spectacularly or even
needed to be bailed out by govt either. BECAUSE they
weren't actually stupid enough to take any notice of what
those spivs and con men demanded happen with deregulation.

However, there were people who warned it would happen:

http://intheblack.com/articles/2015/...em-from-now-on

NOT ONE of them predicted the complete implosion of
much of the world financial system, even if you ignore
the question of exactly when that would actually happen.

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 08-Jul-16 12:03 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/07/16 11:54, Nightjar wrote:
On 08-Jul-16 10:27 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/07/16 10:15, Nightjar wrote:
On 08-Jul-16 9:35 AM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar" wrote in message
...

....Of course, we won't be able to test whether the leave
camp were right about what will happen, as their predictions about
how
Britain will fare post-Brexit were conspicuous by their absence.

Because they weren't silly enough to try to predict the
unpredictable...

Yet they were telling us that Britain would be better off out of the
EU.
Are you saying that was simply blind faith?


Yet they were telling us that Britain would be better off in the EU.
Are
you saying that was simply blind faith?

The people predicting that gave detailed reports, with figures, that
anybody could check for themselves. That was conspicuously missing from
the leave campaign.

Ah, you men like the IPPC climate change committee is full of detailed
reports with figures?...

Actually, some of their figures are rather vague, particularly on how many
of their number disagreed with the conclusions, but that did allow me to
study what they claimed and to draw my own conclusions as to their
validity.

It would have been nice to see supporting evidence for the claims made by
the leave campaign, although, of course, they happily ignored people who
pointed out that the claim emblazoned on the campaign bus, that we send
£350 million a week to the EU, was false.

Farage did nothing like ignore that.

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
It was a name that was invented to describe the campaign to stay,
which had nothing positive to say about the EU, but just dire
warnings - most of which have already been proved false - about
leaving.

We haven't left yet, much less been out long enough to test the
validity of the warnings, which deal with the position in several
years' time. Of course, we won't be able to test whether the leave
camp were right about what will happen, as their predictions about
how Britain will fare post-Brexit were conspicuous by their absence.

Because they weren't silly enough to try to predict the unpredictable.

They predicted that 350m would go to the NHS if we left. Has this happed?
No.

Have we left? No
They predicted immigration would stop. Has this happened? No.

Have we left? No
--
bert

pamela wrote
alan_m wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote

Good, isn't it? You expect people to take financial advice from
a failing bank. Or use that bank's predictions to back up yours.

And similarly we are asked to believe the predictions
of those who didn't foresee the 2008 financial crisis.

Who would you choose to believe?

Predicting the future is error prone

And that is why the leavers weren't actually stupid enough to try
predicting the unpredictable with what the economy would do.

and at some point will always be wrong but that
doesn't mean we should expect as most likely
the opposite of what reputable forecasters say.

But it does mean that when they managed to get it
completely wrong when they claimed to be able to
forecast the result of Britain not being in the eurozone,
that it makes no sense to take any notice of what they
are predicting the result of Britain leaving the EU will
be, particularly when even the worst predictions are
only less than a 10% reduction in GDP and that is
down to the sorts of variations we actually see as
the state of the economy changes without any
major changes like Britain leaving the EU.

Particularly when they studiously ignore that will
might happen to the GDP of the EU as a whole if
the **** does hit the fan with the eurozone, again.

pamela wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Nightjar wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Nightjar wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Nightjar wrote

Of course, we won't be able to test whether the
leave camp were right about what will happen,
as their predictions about how Britain will fare
post-Brexit were conspicuous by their absence.

Because they weren't silly enough to
try to predict the unpredictable...

Yet they were telling us that Britain would be better off
out of the EU. Are you saying that was simply blind faith?

Yet they were telling us that Britain would be better off
in the EU. Are you saying that was simply blind faith?

The people predicting that gave detailed reports,

From the same fools that had predicted that Britain would
be better in the eurozone and didn't manage to predict that
the the world would see the worst recession since the great
depression or that much of the world financial system
would implode in 2008. With a record like that anyone
with even half a clue would have noticed that it is pointless
trying to predict the unpredictable.

Vince Cable? He wasn't so brilliant in office.

Yeah, just another complete dud. Didn’t do
as much damage as that fool Brown tho.

with figures, that anybody could check for themselves.

No one can check figures in a PREDICTION.

That was conspicuously missing from the leave campaign.

Because they weren't actually stupid/dishonest enough to
try to claim that it is possible to predict the unpredictable.