On 14/06/16 21:02, Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 20:52:51 +0100, Andrew wrote:

Anyway, wtf does "sovereignty" actually _MEAN_?

It's a term invariably used by those who don't know what it means.

It means the government that we elect, creates our laws and enforces
them, and we decide who comes here and who can take up residence and or
employment. We decide who is a 'refugee'.

Just like now, y'mean?

well no, not like now, since that doesn't happen


--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:10:02 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Anyway, wtf does "sovereignty" actually _MEAN_?

It's a term invariably used by those who don't know what it means.

It means the government that we elect, creates our laws and enforces
them, and we decide who comes here and who can take up residence and
or employment. We decide who is a 'refugee'.

Just like now, y'mean?

well no, not like now, since that doesn't happen

Yes, it does.

Here in the UK, we get to vote for both MPs and MEPs.
All law in the UK is enforced by UK judiciary.
The UK has 100% control over who can migrate to the UK.
The UK has 100% control over asylum claims here.

But, apart from that...

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 14/06/16 15:37, Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 13:58:12 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

But UKIP are the only party close enough to their position to feel a
blanket ban warranted.

That makes no sense at all

Yes, dear. Of course it doesn't.

Its just another spin and lie

Yes, dear. Of course it is.

Good. I think if anyone is watching this thread, they will draw their own
conclusions about your behaviour, which is all that is needed

We've actually been watching yours, and sneering.

On 14/06/2016 21:04, Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 20:55:17 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

No they deliberately cheated on the tests

The tests applicable to the North American standards.

They also fail the EU ones.

That's never been shown. Seriously, it hasn't. The whole scandal - if you
actually dig into the reality, rather than the shock-and-awe headlines -
is over the US testing.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34857404

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:21:52 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

No they deliberately cheated on the tests

The tests applicable to the North American standards.

They also fail the EU ones.

That's never been shown. Seriously, it hasn't. The whole scandal - if
you actually dig into the reality, rather than the shock-and-awe
headlines - is over the US testing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34857404

Not been proven yet. Just that it "could".

Bear in mind, too, that US diesel NOx caps are MUCH stricter than
European ones, even Euro6.

On 14/06/2016 21:02, Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 20:52:51 +0100, Andrew wrote:

Anyway, wtf does "sovereignty" actually _MEAN_?

It's a term invariably used by those who don't know what it means.

It means the government that we elect, creates our laws and enforces
them, and we decide who comes here and who can take up residence and or
employment. We decide who is a 'refugee'.

Just like now, y'mean?


Well yes, if someone arrives in the UK and claims refugee status then
yes the UK government decides if they are a refugee.

If they arrive in another country they decide.

If its an EU country they become refugees and that does not entitle them
to free movement within the EU.

They are also illegal if they don't claim refugee status in the first
safe country and the UK can ship them back if it so desires.

There is no issue with refugees despite what harry and TNP claim.

There may be an issue with migrants but then there may not be depending
on who you believe.

On 14/06/16 21:19, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Andrew
wrote:

On 13/06/2016 14:54, michael adams wrote:

They're not going to re-open the coal mines and start up the British
Empire
again are they ?

Germany is building EIGHT new coal-fired powerstations, and no EU
paper-shuffler is going to have any say.

Aren't they un-mothballing them rather. And aren't they the
smog-producing braunkohle stations from the Communist era?

No. Brand new braunkohle stations from the New Communist era?
--
All political activity makes complete sense once the proposition that
all government is basically a self-legalising protection racket, is
fully understood.

On 14/06/16 21:21, Bosco Green wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 14/06/16 15:37, Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 13:58:12 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

But UKIP are the only party close enough to their position to feel a
blanket ban warranted.

That makes no sense at all

Yes, dear. Of course it doesn't.

Its just another spin and lie

Yes, dear. Of course it is.

Good. I think if anyone is watching this thread, they will draw their
own conclusions about your behaviour, which is all that is needed

We've actually been watching yours, and sneering.

Well that shows what sort of person you are then doesn't it?


--
All political activity makes complete sense once the proposition that
all government is basically a self-legalising protection racket, is
fully understood.

On 14/06/2016 21:03, Andrew wrote:
On 14/06/2016 08:57, dennis@home wrote:
On 14/06/2016 08:14, harry wrote:


Anarchy lies with the EUSSR.
About to collapse.
Unemployment, dud banks, riots and rape and pillage in the streets.
Already.
We don't want to be anywhere near the final financial armageddon.
They will suck us dry trying to prop up the rotting corpse.



You do understand what will result if that does happen?

The channel is easier to cross than the med for the refugees.
I suppose you think we will need machine guns along the coast.

Except that most of them are migrants and will be returned to
France immediately, just like they were up to the day that
Tony Blair grabbed power. And France took them back without
question.


No they will be refugees escaping from the chaos and ensuing violence.

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:28:37 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

There may be an issue with migrants but then there may not be depending
on who you believe.

But, of course, the UK has 100% control on all non-EU migrants - who,
even after that, are the majority of migration to this country.

On 14/06/16 21:21, dennis@home wrote:
On 14/06/2016 21:04, Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 20:55:17 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

No they deliberately cheated on the tests

The tests applicable to the North American standards.

They also fail the EU ones.

That's never been shown. Seriously, it hasn't. The whole scandal - if you
actually dig into the reality, rather than the shock-and-awe headlines -
is over the US testing.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34857404

As I said, they didn't fail the test. They passed the tests. Otherwise
there is no point in cheating is there?

You really are the 5W bulb in a box of arclights Dennis.


--
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin

On 14/06/16 21:31, Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:28:37 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

There may be an issue with migrants but then there may not be depending
on who you believe.

But, of course, the UK has 100% control on all non-EU migrants - who,
even after that, are the majority of migration to this country.

Except they aren't...these days.


--
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:32:10 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

There may be an issue with migrants but then there may not be
depending on who you believe.

But, of course, the UK has 100% control on all non-EU migrants - who,
even after that, are the majority of migration to this country.

Except they aren't...these days.

Yes, they are. It's very close "these days", but non-EU is still ahead of
EU.

On 14/06/2016 21:14, Tim Streater wrote:
In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:

On 14/06/2016 19:24, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

IIRC that is true, but there are about 10,000 regulations a year passed.

Yet more brexit lies, there are only about 11500 regulations in total.

Don't confuse Regulations with Directives.


OK I won't, there are only about 1800 directives in total.

On 14/06/2016 21:27, Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:21:52 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

No they deliberately cheated on the tests

The tests applicable to the North American standards.

They also fail the EU ones.

That's never been shown. Seriously, it hasn't. The whole scandal - if
you actually dig into the reality, rather than the shock-and-awe
headlines - is over the US testing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34857404

Not been proven yet. Just that it "could".

They ran the tests and they failed.


Bear in mind, too, that US diesel NOx caps are MUCH stricter than
European ones, even Euro6.

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:37:28 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

No they deliberately cheated on the tests

The tests applicable to the North American standards.

They also fail the EU ones.

That's never been shown. Seriously, it hasn't. The whole scandal - if
you actually dig into the reality, rather than the shock-and-awe
headlines - is over the US testing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34857404

Not been proven yet. Just that it "could".

They ran the tests and they failed.

Re-read the article...

They confirmed the Passat in question had the software, and it passed the
test.

Then they did a DIFFERENT test, and it gave readings that would have
failed the official test. Except the official test is very strictly
defined, including the rates of acceleration. Accelerating "hard" is a
very different kettle of fish.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/fcb/the-fu...ing-scheme.asp

It's a subtle point, and I'm certainly not suggesting that VW are cleaner-
than-clean when it comes to the EU tests. But they have not been _proven_
to have done anything that is barred in the official EU tests.

On 14/06/2016 21:42, Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:37:28 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

No they deliberately cheated on the tests

The tests applicable to the North American standards.

They also fail the EU ones.

That's never been shown. Seriously, it hasn't. The whole scandal - if
you actually dig into the reality, rather than the shock-and-awe
headlines - is over the US testing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34857404

Not been proven yet. Just that it "could".

They ran the tests and they failed.

Re-read the article...

They confirmed the Passat in question had the software, and it passed the
test.

Then they did a DIFFERENT test, and it gave readings that would have
failed the official test. Except the official test is very strictly
defined, including the rates of acceleration. Accelerating "hard" is a
very different kettle of fish.

They ran the same test except they fooled the software by not starting
in the normal test conditions.


http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/fcb/the-fu...ing-scheme.asp

It's a subtle point, and I'm certainly not suggesting that VW are cleaner-
than-clean when it comes to the EU tests. But they have not been _proven_
to have done anything that is barred in the official EU tests.


Other than detecting that it isn't a test and turning off all the
emission controls they have done nothing.

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:56:15 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34857404

Not been proven yet. Just that it "could".

They ran the tests and they failed.

Re-read the article...

They confirmed the Passat in question had the software, and it passed
the test.

Then they did a DIFFERENT test, and it gave readings that would have
failed the official test. Except the official test is very strictly
defined, including the rates of acceleration. Accelerating "hard" is a
very different kettle of fish.

They ran the same test except they fooled the software by not starting
in the normal test conditions.

Thereby doing a _different_ test.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 15:57:00 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

But UKIP are the only party close enough to their position to feel a
blanket ban warranted.

That makes no sense at all

Yes, dear. Of course it doesn't.

Its just another spin and lie

Yes, dear. Of course it is.

Good. I think if anyone is watching this thread, they will draw their
own conclusions about your behaviour, which is all that is needed

Yes, they certainly will draw conclusions about the arguments each of us
are putting forward, and how the other responds.

Wonder just why Turnip is so concerned about it being said ex BNP members
are in UKIP. Their aims are very similar. As with all the right wing
they're more likely to squabble over the name and leadership than
policies.

That isnt true of UKIP which is just about the one policy, leaving the EU.

On 14/06/16 21:34, Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:32:10 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

There may be an issue with migrants but then there may not be
depending on who you believe.

But, of course, the UK has 100% control on all non-EU migrants - who,
even after that, are the majority of migration to this country.

Except they aren't...these days.

Yes, they are. It's very close "these days", but non-EU is still ahead of
EU.

How would you tell?

WE don't record what EU citizens do if they hop on a plane and arrive at
Luton.



--
€œIt is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of
making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people
who pay no price for being wrong.€�

Thomas Sowell

On 14/06/16 21:37, dennis@home wrote:
On 14/06/2016 21:27, Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:21:52 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

No they deliberately cheated on the tests

The tests applicable to the North American standards.

They also fail the EU ones.

That's never been shown. Seriously, it hasn't. The whole scandal - if
you actually dig into the reality, rather than the shock-and-awe
headlines - is over the US testing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34857404

Not been proven yet. Just that it "could".

They ran the tests and they failed.


They ran the tests, and they passed.


Bear in mind, too, that US diesel NOx caps are MUCH stricter than
European ones, even Euro6.




--
€œIt is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of
making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people
who pay no price for being wrong.€�

Thomas Sowell

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim... wrote:
The EU makes a law nobody likes (HTF did Brussels pass it then?)

dunno

look at the history of the "Olive oil regulations and inspections
regulation" to see how a law that nobody wanted got within a whisker of
being implemented.

If nobody wanted it, HTF would it have got voted through?

Regulations don’t have to be voted thru.

Surely not all MEPs are Kippers who don't turn up or
deliberately vote against their constituent's interests?

Regulations don’t have to get thru the EP.

If the press hadn't have picked up on it it
would have made it over the finishing line

Then nothing would get passed.

Regulations don’t have to be passed, just proclaimed.

No matter what the EU proposes, the majority
of the UK press would be against it.

On 14/06/2016 22:22, Tim Streater wrote:
In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:

On 14/06/2016 21:14, Tim Streater wrote:
In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:

On 14/06/2016 19:24, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

IIRC that is true, but there are about 10,000 regulations a year
passed.

Yet more brexit lies, there are only about 11500 regulations in total.

Don't confuse Regulations with Directives.


OK I won't, there are only about 1800 directives in total.

When you say in total, you mean from some date in the past when, I
dunno, f'rinstance the EU Parliament came into existence or what?


I mean that as of 2015 there were a total from the year dot.

If you include absolutely everything like ETSI and CENELEC standards set
and court decisions and directives you can just about get to 130,000 EU
"regulations" where regulations is not the correct use of the word.
So even with all that its nowhere near 10,000 a year.

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
On 13/06/2016 21:42, michael adams wrote:

In fact the only people who are really happy with the way
things are going Govt.wise at present are my fellow wrinklies.
Those with private health insurance at least. The Grey Vote.
All former beneficiaries of free university education in their
time, and nowadays courted by both political parties
with triple locked state pensions.

Idiot. Only the top 5% went to University, with full grant, in the
60's and 70's.

Full grant? you must be joking. My grant - because I wasa Scot ands went
to English university was £50 PA.



I didn't. I went out and got a job, did an HNC with
day release and worked my way up. As a freelance computer programmer
shafted by IR35, I had to hand over 40% tax + 11% Employees NI +
12.8% employers NI (no upper limit) to the one-eyed scottish bully.
I decided that we needed to get out of the EU the day that Gob****e
appointed Windbag Kinnock as an EU commissioner.

Even the civil service like NERC and the Met Office had BUPA
membership for their government employees (who also had a
non-contributory final salary pension).


Years ago there were semi- serious discussions about euthenising
anyone selfish enough to be still taking up room at the age of
65. While not going quite that far, for fairly obvious reasons,

Like, you too, would have to get the chop perhaps ?

I certainly think wrinklies should be disbarred from voting in
referendums whose outcomes could have serious repercussions
maybe over the next 50 years.

Including the ones who were (maybe still are) in the top 25% of
taxpayers, the group that subsidise the rest of society ?.


Please don't answer this with more of your silly points,
I'm bored to death with all this already.

Then stop posting such pointless socialist crap.


michael adams

...



--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

In article , Andrew
wrote:
On 13/06/2016 13:48, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Ever been to Germany? That is the largest EU country. Where they are
far more law abiding in general than the UK.

In 20 years time the UK will have overtaken them. In 20 years time
Merkels dumb decision to welcome anyone will result in Germany being as
lawless as parts of Belgium, France and Britain are now. Ask the young
women of Cologne and other towns what they think about 'law abiding'.

The typical EU against poor little England response. Despite UK MEPs
voting in favour of about 80% of EU stuff. And the even weirder notion
that each and every EU country has more in common with the others than
the UK. Which you'd know is total ******** if you'd ever set foot
outside the

You only need to see the way the new countries vote in Eurovision to see
where their sympathies lie - not with us. Remember, Eurovision is the
closest thing we get to an annual referendum on European 'cooperation'.

There's a lot more to Eurovision than the Song Contest. Think New Year's
Day Concert fron Vienna for a start.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 14/06/2016 22:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/06/16 21:37, dennis@home wrote:
On 14/06/2016 21:27, Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:21:52 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

No they deliberately cheated on the tests

The tests applicable to the North American standards.

They also fail the EU ones.

That's never been shown. Seriously, it hasn't. The whole scandal - if
you actually dig into the reality, rather than the shock-and-awe
headlines - is over the US testing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34857404

Not been proven yet. Just that it "could".

They ran the tests and they failed.


They ran the tests, and they passed.


No, the cheat software detected a test situation and altered
the engine parameters to pass the test, but affected vehicle
driveability and performance. In the real world the
emissions fail the test. This is fraud. No wonder Angela is
getting seriously worried that the British, the EU cash cow
may be leaving.

why not put the same cheat software into NHS blood pressure
monitors so that people are given a normal reading when there
is actually a problem (*) ?. We could then save on all those
millions of free aspirins and statins and BP medicines being
handed out.

(*) for some people a static BP test after a 5 minute rest does
not show an actual problem. For this situation, most GPs have a portable
device that the patient wears for 24 hours and gives a more
realistic indication of BP.

On 14/06/2016 21:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/06/16 21:19, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Andrew
wrote:

On 13/06/2016 14:54, michael adams wrote:

They're not going to re-open the coal mines and start up the British
Empire
again are they ?

Germany is building EIGHT new coal-fired powerstations, and no EU
paper-shuffler is going to have any say.

Aren't they un-mothballing them rather. And aren't they the
smog-producing braunkohle stations from the Communist era?

No. Brand new braunkohle stations from the New Communist era?


when Didcot A was closed down, the stepup transformer that weighed
mega-tons was sent back to Siemens in Germany for a refurb. Then it
will be used in one of the new German powerplants.

On 14/06/16 23:10, Andrew wrote:

No, the cheat software detected a test situation and altered
the engine parameters to pass the test...the
emissions fail the test.


I rest my case. Doublethink is alive and well.

--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

On 14/06/2016 21:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/06/16 21:19, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Andrew
wrote:

On 13/06/2016 14:54, michael adams wrote:

They're not going to re-open the coal mines and start up the British
Empire
again are they ?

Germany is building EIGHT new coal-fired powerstations, and no EU
paper-shuffler is going to have any say.

Aren't they un-mothballing them rather. And aren't they the
smog-producing braunkohle stations from the Communist era?

No. Brand new braunkohle stations from the New Communist era?

http://uk.railway.narkive.com/pqX3nK...rs-on-the-move

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
On 13/06/2016 13:51, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


You've got to the crux of the matter. Send our country into a lengthy
recession from which it may never recover so you can buy a faster toaster.

Well that's what Gordon Brown achieved by 2008, and strangely enough,
he managed it while we were both in the EU *and* outside the Eurozone.

So we know what *can* happen (again) if the Remainers win, and those
of us old enough can remember that we got along just fine prior to 1973,
when we joined the common market, the miners forced out a democratically
elected government, slammed the door on cheap meat and dairy imports
from New Zealand and for the next 5 years inflicted an *annual*
inflation rate of between 20 and 25%, and even had to call in the IMF
for an emergency loan in 1976.

Thanks for confirming that the 'outers' think they can just wind back the
clock. To the times when the summers were hot and England ruled the waves.

Tell you what. Press pause on your remote control. That would be a start.

--
*CAN VEGETARIANS EAT ANIMAL CRACKERS?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
On 13/06/2016 16:04, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


The kettle thing is simply lies, since you can't increase the
efficiency of that to any major extent.


Nope. They are trying to reduce power surges when an important sporting
event finishes.

You need less powerful bottle openers, then.

--
*Why is the word abbreviation so long? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
tim... wrote:
HTF would it have got voted through?

I don't know the system, but the fact is that most of the proposals made
by commissioners are voted through the EP "on the nod"

Really? With all those UKIP MEPs? And so many on here want to see UKIP in
power in the UK?

--
*Middle age is when it takes longer to rest than to get tired.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
As a freelance computer programmer
shafted by IR35, I had to hand over 40% tax + 11% Employees NI +
12.8% employers NI (no upper limit) to the one-eyed scottish bully.

What you needed was a decent union, pet. Genuine freelances didn't get
'shafted' by IR35. And a decent accountant.

Sounds like you were one of those 'freelances' who actually just worked
for the one employer.

--
*Haunted French pancakes give me the crepes.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
Bull****, you are one of them yourself with your union ****.

There we have it. Wodney thinks all union members are lefties. Which shows
he's never been near any union in his life.

--
*Wrinkled was not one of the things I wanted to be when I grew up

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
You only need to see the way the new countries vote in Eurovision to
see where their sympathies lie - not with us. Remember, Eurovision
is the closest thing we get to an annual referendum on European
'cooperation'.

You don't think it could possibly be down to our entries to Eurovision
being ****e? In common with just about all the others?

And was it only last year a beard sprouting transvestite won? Is that
where the sympathies of Eurovision voters lie now? Does Putin know this?

--
*Why is the third hand on the watch called a second hand?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
On 13/06/2016 13:28, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Adrian wrote:
Anyway, wtf does "sovereignty" actually _MEAN_?

It's a term invariably used by those who don't know what it means.

It means the government that we elect, creates our laws and enforces
them, and we decide who comes here and who can take up residence
and or employment. We decide who is a 'refugee'.

Seems like only a few minutes ago I read a vast whinge from you about a UK
government. Now it would seem they are always perfect?

If we don't like them, we can vote them out within 5 years.

--
*Why is a boxing ring square?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
Todays C4 news interviewed a Polish girl who had opened a cafe in
Southampton. She thought the NHS was awful, impossible to get an
appointment !!, and that the Polish private healthcare system was
actually better.

Right. Immigrants are a bad thing. Except when they say something you like.

--
*Never put off until tomorrow what you can avoid altogether *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Bull****, you are one of them yourself with your union ****.

There we have it.

We'll see...

Wodney thinks all union members are lefties.

Nope, that you clearly are.

Which shows he's never been near any union in his life.

There you go again, face down in the mud, as always.

In article ,
Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 21:28:37 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

There may be an issue with migrants but then there may not be depending
on who you believe.

But, of course, the UK has 100% control on all non-EU migrants - who,
even after that, are the majority of migration to this country.

If this referendum goes to the outers, it will be because of immigration.

Governments of all colours have said they will 'reduce it to a trickle'
for more years than I can remember. But none actually have. And it's an
issue in just about every other country in the world.

The only way real to stop it is for us to have a poorer standard of living
than the country those wanting to come here from has.

What will be fun if we do vote for out is the utter frustration of those
who expect immigrants to be sent home the next day - and no more to come.

--
*If a parsley farmer is sued, can they garnish his wages?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
No, the cheat software detected a test situation and altered
the engine parameters to pass the test, but affected vehicle
driveability and performance. In the real world the
emissions fail the test.

What's needed is more and better EU directives on vehicle testing, then.

--
*All men are idiots, and I married their King.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.