On 13/05/2016 16:25, Mike Barnes wrote:
Bert Coules wrote:
I'm thinking about converting a downstairs bathroom to a utility room:
retaining the loo and basin (possibly replacing it with one of a
different
style), removing the bath, adding a washing machine and a tumble
dryer. So
I'll have to install, or have installed, a couple of mains sockets.

Does taking out the bath mean that the bathroom building regs no longer
apply? If not, what is the criterion which defines a bathroom and means
that no sockets are allowed?

AFAIK the definition of "bathroom" has nothing to do with it. It's the
distance between electrical and water fittings that's important and
covered by the regulations.

This is not really true.

See:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Bathroom_electrics



--
Cheers,

John.

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On 13/05/2016 23:29, Mr Macaw wrote:
Which is important because.... electricity can't go through jeans?

Correct. Its far less able to pass through clothes and *dry* skin.


--
Cheers,

John.

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On 13/05/2016 18:53, Bert Coules wrote:

Thanks for all the replies. I was familiar with the concept of zones
but mistakenly thought that it only applied to a room containing a bath
or shower.

You were correct.

Now I know otherwise I'll investigate the relevant regs.

You have now been erroneously corrected!


--
Cheers,

John.

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On 14/05/2016 02:08, Mike Barnes wrote:
S Viemeister wrote:
Defecating and urinating are often called 'going to the bathroom'. The
word 'toilet' seems to offend many people.

IME that's an American thing, but sadly it seems to be catching on here.

Maybe they are catching on to the the meaning of a trump?

--
Rod

John Rumm wrote:
On 13/05/2016 16:25, Mike Barnes wrote:
Bert Coules wrote:
I'm thinking about converting a downstairs bathroom to a utility room:
retaining the loo and basin (possibly replacing it with one of a
different
style), removing the bath, adding a washing machine and a tumble
dryer. So
I'll have to install, or have installed, a couple of mains sockets.

Does taking out the bath mean that the bathroom building regs no longer
apply? If not, what is the criterion which defines a bathroom and means
that no sockets are allowed?

AFAIK the definition of "bathroom" has nothing to do with it. It's the
distance between electrical and water fittings that's important and
covered by the regulations.

This is not really true.

See:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Bathroom_electrics

I see... thanks, and I hope no-one was misled by my wrong answer.

So presumably what you and I might regard as a truly *enormous* bedroom,
with a shower cubicle tucked away somewhere in a corner, is classified
for regulatory purposes as a "bathroom"?

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

On 13/05/16 23:23, tim... wrote:

"Muddymike" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 13/05/2016 15:44, Bert Coules wrote:
I'm thinking about converting a downstairs bathroom to a utility room:
retaining the loo and basin (possibly replacing it with one of a
different style), removing the bath, adding a washing machine and a
tumble dryer. So I'll have to install, or have installed, a couple of
mains sockets.

Does taking out the bath mean that the bathroom building regs no longer
apply? If not, what is the criterion which defines a bathroom and means
that no sockets are allowed?

Thanks.

If you take any notice of the Yanks, its still a bathroom even if only
ever built containing a long drop bog!

what on earth is a "long drop bog"?

tim



Slit trench


--
€œBut what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!€�

Mary Wollstonecraft

In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
AFAIK the definition of "bathroom" has nothing to do with it. It's
the distance between electrical and water fittings that's important
and covered by the regulations. There are precisely measured "zones"
around water fittings, and restrictions on what you can have
electrically within those zones.

And in a kitchen?

I'm no expert but AFAICS the perceived function of the space is of no
relevance. Electricity doesn't care what you call the room.

Then the same regs as regards water and electricity would apply in a
kitchen and bathroom equally.

Basically, in a small kitchen, no power points.

--
wife.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 14/05/2016 07:57, Mike Barnes wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
On 13/05/2016 16:25, Mike Barnes wrote:
Bert Coules wrote:
I'm thinking about converting a downstairs bathroom to a utility room:
retaining the loo and basin (possibly replacing it with one of a
different
style), removing the bath, adding a washing machine and a tumble
dryer. So
I'll have to install, or have installed, a couple of mains sockets.

Does taking out the bath mean that the bathroom building regs no longer
apply? If not, what is the criterion which defines a bathroom and
means
that no sockets are allowed?

AFAIK the definition of "bathroom" has nothing to do with it. It's the
distance between electrical and water fittings that's important and
covered by the regulations.

This is not really true.

See:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Bathroom_electrics

I see... thanks, and I hope no-one was misled by my wrong answer.

So presumably what you and I might regard as a truly *enormous* bedroom,
with a shower cubicle tucked away somewhere in a corner, is classified
for regulatory purposes as a "bathroom"?

There were some changes with the 17th edition... That for the first time
allowed sockets in bathrooms once your are (IIRC) 3m away from the bath
or shower (or reach of shower hose etc). So if you have a huge bathroom
you have Zones 0 to 2, "Outside the Zones", and now in effect "back to
normal rules".





--
Cheers,

John.

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On 14/05/2016 12:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
AFAIK the definition of "bathroom" has nothing to do with it. It's
the distance between electrical and water fittings that's important
and covered by the regulations. There are precisely measured "zones"
around water fittings, and restrictions on what you can have
electrically within those zones.

And in a kitchen?

I'm no expert but AFAICS the perceived function of the space is of no
relevance. Electricity doesn't care what you call the room.

Then the same regs as regards water and electricity would apply in a
kitchen and bathroom equally.

Only if you have a bath or shower in the Kitchen!

Basically, in a small kitchen, no power points.

There are actually no mandated distances for power points from kitchen
sinks etc. There is a guideline in one of the supplementary books, that
suggests 300mm though.

(note also that kitchens are no longer "special locations" from the
point of view of Part P).


--
Cheers,

John.

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In article ,
John Rumm wrote:

There were some changes with the 17th edition... That for the first time
allowed sockets in bathrooms once your are (IIRC) 3m away from the bath
or shower (or reach of shower hose etc). So if you have a huge bathroom
you have Zones 0 to 2, "Outside the Zones", and now in effect "back to
normal rules".

Which makes my point perfectly. How many kitchens have all the power
points 3 meters away from the sink?

--
*Half the people in the world are below average.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 14/05/2016 15:22, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:

There were some changes with the 17th edition... That for the first time
allowed sockets in bathrooms once your are (IIRC) 3m away from the bath
or shower (or reach of shower hose etc). So if you have a huge bathroom
you have Zones 0 to 2, "Outside the Zones", and now in effect "back to
normal rules".

Which makes my point perfectly. How many kitchens have all the power
points 3 meters away from the sink?

Are you replying to the right sub-thread?


--
Cheers,

John.

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On Sat, 14 May 2016 03:55:59 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 13/05/2016 23:29, Mr Macaw wrote:
Which is important because.... electricity can't go through jeans?

Correct. Its far less able to pass through clothes and *dry* skin.

Wet jeans conduct almost as well as water does. So it's irrelevant whether you're wearing them or not when you splash water on yourself in a bathroom or kitchen.

--
What do you call a dwarf who throws the discus?
A compact disc player.

"ARW" wrote in message
...
"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 13/05/2016 15:44, Bert Coules wrote:
I'm thinking about converting a downstairs bathroom to a utility room:
retaining the loo and basin (possibly replacing it with one of a
different style), removing the bath, adding a washing machine and a
tumble dryer. So I'll have to install, or have installed, a couple of
mains sockets.

Does taking out the bath mean that the bathroom building regs no longer
apply? If not, what is the criterion which defines a bathroom and means
that no sockets are allowed?

Thanks.

On a slightly different tack, having looked at numerous Right Move,
Zoopla and builders' own descriptions, I am getting heartily sick of
bathrooms without baths! If it only has a shower, let it be a shower room
or dream up some other name, anyone for "indoor rain room"?


Wet room.

Wet room is a specific type of room with a shower in it.
Doesn’t cover a room with a normal shower cubicle with no bath.

"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 13/05/2016 19:37, S Viemeister wrote:
On 5/13/2016 2:28 PM, polygonum wrote:

On a slightly different tack, having looked at numerous Right Move,
Zoopla and builders' own descriptions, I am getting heartily sick of
bathrooms without baths! If it only has a shower, let it be a shower
room or dream up some other name, anyone for "indoor rain room"?

Property descriptions in the US have 'half-baths'. Toilet and washbasin,
no bath or shower.

How odd! The name makes me think of those very short baths

Yes, house I lived in as a teenager had one of those for us
kids, we had our own bathroom at our level of the house.

with two levels.

Ours didn’t have that, it was just a square bath that was otherwise
like a normal bath, but square instead of oblong and you couldn’t
lie down in it, but you could sit in it.

Why have the word "bath" in there at all?

True. Toilet or dunny makes more sense.

Still, "cloakroom" is just as ridiculous in most houses.

True. Any living language evolves over time.

On 14/05/2016 22:06, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2016 03:55:59 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 13/05/2016 23:29, Mr Macaw wrote:
Which is important because.... electricity can't go through jeans?

Correct. Its far less able to pass through clothes and *dry* skin.

Wet jeans conduct almost as well as water does.

So not very well then?

Water tends to need impurities in it to be a good conductor.

So it's irrelevant
whether you're wearing them or not when you splash water on yourself in
a bathroom or kitchen.

The elevated risk comes from being wet all over. If you are, get a grown
up to teach you how to do the washing up.


--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sun, 15 May 2016 02:35:14 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 14/05/2016 22:06, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2016 03:55:59 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 13/05/2016 23:29, Mr Macaw wrote:
Which is important because.... electricity can't go through jeans?

Correct. Its far less able to pass through clothes and *dry* skin.

Wet jeans conduct almost as well as water does.

So not very well then?

Water tends to need impurities in it to be a good conductor.

Drop a hairdryer in the bath, then tell me how well the water conducted.

So it's irrelevant
whether you're wearing them or not when you splash water on yourself in
a bathroom or kitchen.

The elevated risk comes from being wet all over. If you are, get a grown
up to teach you how to do the washing up.

You only need to be wet where you touch the electricity. Usually the hands.

--
In the 60's people took acid to make the world weird.
Now the world is weird, people take prozac to make it normal.

On 15/05/2016 11:23, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sun, 15 May 2016 02:35:14 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:


The elevated risk comes from being wet all over. If you are, get a grown
up to teach you how to do the washing up.

You only need to be wet where you touch the electricity. Usually the
hands.

Please go and try.

--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/

On Sun, 15 May 2016 13:00:41 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 15/05/2016 11:23, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sun, 15 May 2016 02:35:14 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:


The elevated risk comes from being wet all over. If you are, get a grown
up to teach you how to do the washing up.

You only need to be wet where you touch the electricity. Usually the
hands.

Please go and try.

Already done plenty times. Makes you jump, that's all.

--
If you think people aren't creative, watch them try to re-fold a roadmap.

On Sun, 15 May 2016 08:38:39 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 13/05/2016 19:37, S Viemeister wrote:
On 5/13/2016 2:28 PM, polygonum wrote:

On a slightly different tack, having looked at numerous Right Move,
Zoopla and builders' own descriptions, I am getting heartily sick of
bathrooms without baths! If it only has a shower, let it be a shower
room or dream up some other name, anyone for "indoor rain room"?

Property descriptions in the US have 'half-baths'. Toilet and washbasin,
no bath or shower.

How odd! The name makes me think of those very short baths

Yes, house I lived in as a teenager had one of those for us
kids, we had our own bathroom at our level of the house.

with two levels.

Ours didn’t have that, it was just a square bath that was otherwise
like a normal bath, but square instead of oblong and you couldn’t
lie down in it, but you could sit in it.

The ones I remember from 1960 were basicly a large Belfast sink with a
Weir overflow. The place in question was opened in 1922, and they
might well have been that old.


--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

"Graham." wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 May 2016 08:38:39 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 13/05/2016 19:37, S Viemeister wrote:
On 5/13/2016 2:28 PM, polygonum wrote:

On a slightly different tack, having looked at numerous Right Move,
Zoopla and builders' own descriptions, I am getting heartily sick of
bathrooms without baths! If it only has a shower, let it be a shower
room or dream up some other name, anyone for "indoor rain room"?

Property descriptions in the US have 'half-baths'. Toilet and
washbasin,
no bath or shower.

How odd! The name makes me think of those very short baths

Yes, house I lived in as a teenager had one of those for us
kids, we had our own bathroom at our level of the house.

with two levels.

Ours didn't have that, it was just a square bath that was otherwise
like a normal bath, but square instead of oblong and you couldn't
lie down in it, but you could sit in it.

The ones I remember from 1960 were basicly a large Belfast sink with a
Weir overflow.

Ours was just like a normal full length bath, but square.

The place in question was opened in 1922, and they
might well have been that old.

This one was built in the early 60s.