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Default What makes a bathroom a bathroom?

I'm thinking about converting a downstairs bathroom to a utility room:
retaining the loo and basin (possibly replacing it with one of a different
style), removing the bath, adding a washing machine and a tumble dryer. So
I'll have to install, or have installed, a couple of mains sockets.

Does taking out the bath mean that the bathroom building regs no longer
apply? If not, what is the criterion which defines a bathroom and means
that no sockets are allowed?

Thanks.

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On 13/05/2016 15:44, Bert Coules wrote:
I'm thinking about converting a downstairs bathroom to a utility room:
retaining the loo and basin (possibly replacing it with one of a
different style), removing the bath, adding a washing machine and a
tumble dryer. So I'll have to install, or have installed, a couple of
mains sockets.

Does taking out the bath mean that the bathroom building regs no longer
apply? If not, what is the criterion which defines a bathroom and means
that no sockets are allowed?

Thanks.


If you take any notice of the Yanks, its still a bathroom even if only
ever built containing a long drop bog!

Mike
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And screws with the insulation.


On Fri, 13 May 2016 17:07:11 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

One thing I found interesting about our bathroom is that there is only
floor where the feet of the bath are, the rest of the boards are sawn off at
the edges. I assume this makes plumbing a lot easier.


Brian



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"Muddymike" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 13/05/2016 15:44, Bert Coules wrote:
I'm thinking about converting a downstairs bathroom to a utility room:
retaining the loo and basin (possibly replacing it with one of a
different style), removing the bath, adding a washing machine and a
tumble dryer. So I'll have to install, or have installed, a couple of
mains sockets.

Does taking out the bath mean that the bathroom building regs no longer
apply? If not, what is the criterion which defines a bathroom and means
that no sockets are allowed?

Thanks.


If you take any notice of the Yanks, its still a bathroom even if only
ever built containing a long drop bog!


what on earth is a "long drop bog"?

tim





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Default What makes a bathroom a bathroom?

On Fri, 13 May 2016 23:23:28 +0100, tim... wrote:


"Muddymike" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 13/05/2016 15:44, Bert Coules wrote:
I'm thinking about converting a downstairs bathroom to a utility room:
retaining the loo and basin (possibly replacing it with one of a
different style), removing the bath, adding a washing machine and a
tumble dryer. So I'll have to install, or have installed, a couple of
mains sockets.

Does taking out the bath mean that the bathroom building regs no longer
apply? If not, what is the criterion which defines a bathroom and means
that no sockets are allowed?

Thanks.


If you take any notice of the Yanks, its still a bathroom even if only
ever built containing a long drop bog!


what on earth is a "long drop bog"?


To stop splashback?

--
A man and his wife are ****ing.
Fifteen minutes has passed, 30 minutes, then 45 minutes.
Sweat is pouring off both of them.
The wife finally looks up and says, "What's the matter darling, can't you think of anyone else either?"
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tim... wrote:

what on earth is a "long drop bog"?


https://youtu.be/a1oKaOiV1VU

HTH
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On 13/05/16 23:23, tim... wrote:

"Muddymike" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 13/05/2016 15:44, Bert Coules wrote:
I'm thinking about converting a downstairs bathroom to a utility room:
retaining the loo and basin (possibly replacing it with one of a
different style), removing the bath, adding a washing machine and a
tumble dryer. So I'll have to install, or have installed, a couple of
mains sockets.

Does taking out the bath mean that the bathroom building regs no longer
apply? If not, what is the criterion which defines a bathroom and means
that no sockets are allowed?

Thanks.


If you take any notice of the Yanks, its still a bathroom even if only
ever built containing a long drop bog!


what on earth is a "long drop bog"?

tim



Slit trench


--
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hypothesis!€

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Default What makes a bathroom a bathroom?

Bert Coules wrote:
I'm thinking about converting a downstairs bathroom to a utility room:
retaining the loo and basin (possibly replacing it with one of a different
style), removing the bath, adding a washing machine and a tumble dryer. So
I'll have to install, or have installed, a couple of mains sockets.

Does taking out the bath mean that the bathroom building regs no longer
apply? If not, what is the criterion which defines a bathroom and means
that no sockets are allowed?


AFAIK the definition of "bathroom" has nothing to do with it. It's the
distance between electrical and water fittings that's important and
covered by the regulations. There are precisely measured "zones" around
water fittings, and restrictions on what you can have electrically
within those zones.

--
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Cheshire, England
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Default What makes a bathroom a bathroom?

In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
AFAIK the definition of "bathroom" has nothing to do with it. It's the
distance between electrical and water fittings that's important and
covered by the regulations. There are precisely measured "zones" around
water fittings, and restrictions on what you can have electrically
within those zones.


And in a kitchen?

--
*Oh, what a tangled website we weave when first we practice *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.


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On Fri, 13 May 2016 18:43:52 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
AFAIK the definition of "bathroom" has nothing to do with it. It's the
distance between electrical and water fittings that's important and
covered by the regulations. There are precisely measured "zones" around
water fittings, and restrictions on what you can have electrically
within those zones.


And in a kitchen?


I had (already when I moved in) sockets only a foot or so from the sink. Very handy to fill the kettle without having to unplug it.

--
We've had a hot, dry summer this year. It was so hot that one of my neighbors said his wife even thawed out.
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
AFAIK the definition of "bathroom" has nothing to do with it. It's the
distance between electrical and water fittings that's important and
covered by the regulations. There are precisely measured "zones" around
water fittings, and restrictions on what you can have electrically
within those zones.


And in a kitchen?


I'm no expert but AFAICS the perceived function of the space is of no
relevance. Electricity doesn't care what you call the room.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
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In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
AFAIK the definition of "bathroom" has nothing to do with it. It's
the distance between electrical and water fittings that's important
and covered by the regulations. There are precisely measured "zones"
around water fittings, and restrictions on what you can have
electrically within those zones.


And in a kitchen?


I'm no expert but AFAICS the perceived function of the space is of no
relevance. Electricity doesn't care what you call the room.


Then the same regs as regards water and electricity would apply in a
kitchen and bathroom equally.

Basically, in a small kitchen, no power points.

--
wife.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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On 14/05/2016 12:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
AFAIK the definition of "bathroom" has nothing to do with it. It's
the distance between electrical and water fittings that's important
and covered by the regulations. There are precisely measured "zones"
around water fittings, and restrictions on what you can have
electrically within those zones.

And in a kitchen?


I'm no expert but AFAICS the perceived function of the space is of no
relevance. Electricity doesn't care what you call the room.


Then the same regs as regards water and electricity would apply in a
kitchen and bathroom equally.


Only if you have a bath or shower in the Kitchen!

Basically, in a small kitchen, no power points.


There are actually no mandated distances for power points from kitchen
sinks etc. There is a guideline in one of the supplementary books, that
suggests 300mm though.

(note also that kitchens are no longer "special locations" from the
point of view of Part P).


--
Cheers,

John.

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On Fri, 13 May 2016 16:25:41 +0100, Mike Barnes wrote:

Bert Coules wrote:
I'm thinking about converting a downstairs bathroom to a utility room:
retaining the loo and basin (possibly replacing it with one of a different
style), removing the bath, adding a washing machine and a tumble dryer. So
I'll have to install, or have installed, a couple of mains sockets.

Does taking out the bath mean that the bathroom building regs no longer
apply? If not, what is the criterion which defines a bathroom and means
that no sockets are allowed?


AFAIK the definition of "bathroom" has nothing to do with it. It's the
distance between electrical and water fittings that's important and
covered by the regulations. There are precisely measured "zones" around
water fittings, and restrictions on what you can have electrically
within those zones.


My house, I'll do what I like. I've got a socket above my sink to plug in my hair trimmer.

--
A man and his wife are ****ing.
Fifteen minutes has passed, 30 minutes, then 45 minutes.
Sweat is pouring off both of them.
The wife finally looks up and says, "What's the matter darling, can't you think of anyone else either?"


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On 13/05/2016 16:25, Mike Barnes wrote:
Bert Coules wrote:
I'm thinking about converting a downstairs bathroom to a utility room:
retaining the loo and basin (possibly replacing it with one of a
different
style), removing the bath, adding a washing machine and a tumble
dryer. So
I'll have to install, or have installed, a couple of mains sockets.

Does taking out the bath mean that the bathroom building regs no longer
apply? If not, what is the criterion which defines a bathroom and means
that no sockets are allowed?


AFAIK the definition of "bathroom" has nothing to do with it. It's the
distance between electrical and water fittings that's important and
covered by the regulations.


This is not really true.

See:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Bathroom_electrics



--
Cheers,

John.

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John Rumm wrote:
On 13/05/2016 16:25, Mike Barnes wrote:
Bert Coules wrote:
I'm thinking about converting a downstairs bathroom to a utility room:
retaining the loo and basin (possibly replacing it with one of a
different
style), removing the bath, adding a washing machine and a tumble
dryer. So
I'll have to install, or have installed, a couple of mains sockets.

Does taking out the bath mean that the bathroom building regs no longer
apply? If not, what is the criterion which defines a bathroom and means
that no sockets are allowed?


AFAIK the definition of "bathroom" has nothing to do with it. It's the
distance between electrical and water fittings that's important and
covered by the regulations.


This is not really true.

See:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Bathroom_electrics


I see... thanks, and I hope no-one was misled by my wrong answer.

So presumably what you and I might regard as a truly *enormous* bedroom,
with a shower cubicle tucked away somewhere in a corner, is classified
for regulatory purposes as a "bathroom"?

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
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On 14/05/2016 07:57, Mike Barnes wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
On 13/05/2016 16:25, Mike Barnes wrote:
Bert Coules wrote:
I'm thinking about converting a downstairs bathroom to a utility room:
retaining the loo and basin (possibly replacing it with one of a
different
style), removing the bath, adding a washing machine and a tumble
dryer. So
I'll have to install, or have installed, a couple of mains sockets.

Does taking out the bath mean that the bathroom building regs no longer
apply? If not, what is the criterion which defines a bathroom and
means
that no sockets are allowed?

AFAIK the definition of "bathroom" has nothing to do with it. It's the
distance between electrical and water fittings that's important and
covered by the regulations.


This is not really true.

See:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Bathroom_electrics


I see... thanks, and I hope no-one was misled by my wrong answer.

So presumably what you and I might regard as a truly *enormous* bedroom,
with a shower cubicle tucked away somewhere in a corner, is classified
for regulatory purposes as a "bathroom"?


There were some changes with the 17th edition... That for the first time
allowed sockets in bathrooms once your are (IIRC) 3m away from the bath
or shower (or reach of shower hose etc). So if you have a huge bathroom
you have Zones 0 to 2, "Outside the Zones", and now in effect "back to
normal rules".





--
Cheers,

John.

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In article ,
John Rumm wrote:

There were some changes with the 17th edition... That for the first time
allowed sockets in bathrooms once your are (IIRC) 3m away from the bath
or shower (or reach of shower hose etc). So if you have a huge bathroom
you have Zones 0 to 2, "Outside the Zones", and now in effect "back to
normal rules".


Which makes my point perfectly. How many kitchens have all the power
points 3 meters away from the sink?

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
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On Fri, 13 May 2016 15:44:37 +0100, Bert Coules wrote:

If not, what is the criterion which defines a bathroom and means
that no sockets are allowed?


You need to look up the zones.

http://www.aboutelectricity.co.uk/im...al-charts-and-
tables/bathroomzonediagram.jpg


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"Adrian" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 May 2016 15:44:37 +0100, Bert Coules wrote:

If not, what is the criterion which defines a bathroom and means
that no sockets are allowed?


You need to look up the zones.

http://www.aboutelectricity.co.uk/im...al-charts-and-
tables/bathroomzonediagram.jpg




I'll bet that link has has got the usual zone 2 ******** around the sink.

http://electrical.theiet.org/wiring-...s.cfm?type=pdf

has no such restriction.


In reply to Bert. The IEE have special regs (section 701 of the 17th
edition) for "locations containing a bath or shower".

So my conclusion is that a bathroom needs a bath in it to be called a
bathroom.




--
Adam

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Which is important because.... electricity can't go through jeans?


On Fri, 13 May 2016 17:05:13 +0100, Brian Gaff wrote:

Sounds more like a kitchen without a cooker to me.
I think being less silly, if you do not have a shower or a bath you are
less likely to be in there naked.
Brian



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Customer: "Try cutting a little faster."
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On 13/05/2016 23:29, Mr Macaw wrote:
Which is important because.... electricity can't go through jeans?


Correct. Its far less able to pass through clothes and *dry* skin.


--
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John.

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On Sat, 14 May 2016 03:55:59 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 13/05/2016 23:29, Mr Macaw wrote:
Which is important because.... electricity can't go through jeans?


Correct. Its far less able to pass through clothes and *dry* skin.


Wet jeans conduct almost as well as water does. So it's irrelevant whether you're wearing them or not when you splash water on yourself in a bathroom or kitchen.

--
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A compact disc player.


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On 14/05/2016 22:06, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2016 03:55:59 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 13/05/2016 23:29, Mr Macaw wrote:
Which is important because.... electricity can't go through jeans?


Correct. Its far less able to pass through clothes and *dry* skin.


Wet jeans conduct almost as well as water does.


So not very well then?

Water tends to need impurities in it to be a good conductor.

So it's irrelevant
whether you're wearing them or not when you splash water on yourself in
a bathroom or kitchen.


The elevated risk comes from being wet all over. If you are, get a grown
up to teach you how to do the washing up.


--
Cheers,

John.

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Bert Coules wrote:

I'm thinking about converting a downstairs bathroom to a utility room:
retaining the loo and basin (possibly replacing it with one of a different
style), removing the bath, adding a washing machine and a tumble dryer. So
I'll have to install, or have installed, a couple of mains sockets.

Does taking out the bath mean that the bathroom building regs no longer
apply? If not, what is the criterion which defines a bathroom and means
that no sockets are allowed?


Building regs apply all the time. I think you mean electrical special
locations, where you cannot have a socket outlet within 3 metres of a
bath or shower.
Take the bath or shower out, and do what you want.
Building Regs still need adhering to, and electrical accessories
should be suitable for their environment, so no socket outlet directly
next to the toilet, where it could be pee'd on.
--
Alan
To reply by mail, change '+' to 'plus'

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On Fri, 13 May 2016 17:33:06 +0100, wrote:

Bert Coules wrote:

I'm thinking about converting a downstairs bathroom to a utility room:
retaining the loo and basin (possibly replacing it with one of a different
style), removing the bath, adding a washing machine and a tumble dryer. So
I'll have to install, or have installed, a couple of mains sockets.

Does taking out the bath mean that the bathroom building regs no longer
apply? If not, what is the criterion which defines a bathroom and means
that no sockets are allowed?


Building regs apply all the time. I think you mean electrical special
locations, where you cannot have a socket outlet within 3 metres of a
bath or shower.
Take the bath or shower out, and do what you want.
Building Regs still need adhering to, and electrical accessories
should be suitable for their environment, so no socket outlet directly
next to the toilet, where it could be pee'd on.


But peeing on an electric fence is funny.

--
Times are tough.
Just the other day, I saw a beggar who was so broke that he was standing on the corner shouting at the cars that went by.
He was shouting, "WILL WORK FOR CARDBOARD AND A MAGIC MARKER!"
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On Fri, 13 May 2016 17:33:06 +0100, wrote:

Bert Coules wrote:

I'm thinking about converting a downstairs bathroom to a utility room:
retaining the loo and basin (possibly replacing it with one of a different
style), removing the bath, adding a washing machine and a tumble dryer. So
I'll have to install, or have installed, a couple of mains sockets.

Does taking out the bath mean that the bathroom building regs no longer
apply? If not, what is the criterion which defines a bathroom and means
that no sockets are allowed?


Building regs apply all the time. I think you mean electrical special
locations, where you cannot have a socket outlet within 3 metres of a
bath or shower.
Take the bath or shower out, and do what you want.
Building Regs still need adhering to, and electrical accessories
should be suitable for their environment, so no socket outlet directly
next to the toilet, where it could be pee'd on.


Since everyone has those poofy circuit breakers, does it really matter if you have electricity in the bathroom?

--
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In article ,
Bert Coules wrote:
I'm thinking about converting a downstairs bathroom to a utility room:
retaining the loo and basin (possibly replacing it with one of a
different style), removing the bath, adding a washing machine and a
tumble dryer. So I'll have to install, or have installed, a couple of
mains sockets.


Does taking out the bath mean that the bathroom building regs no longer
apply? If not, what is the criterion which defines a bathroom and means
that no sockets are allowed?


Think if it's not got a bath or shower - so you'd not get naked and
dripping wet - it's not covered.

--
*Why do psychics have to ask you for your name? *

Dave Plowman London SW
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Thanks for all the replies. I was familiar with the concept of zones but
mistakenly thought that it only applied to a room containing a bath or
shower. Now I know otherwise I'll investigate the relevant regs.



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"Bert Coules" wrote in message
...
Thanks for all the replies. I was familiar with the concept of zones but
mistakenly thought that it only applied to a room containing a bath or
shower. Now I know otherwise I'll investigate the relevant regs.



701 Zones ONLY apply to a room with a bath or shower!!!

--
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"Bert Coules" wrote in message
...
Thanks for all the replies. I was familiar with the concept of zones but
mistakenly thought that it only applied to a room containing a bath or
shower. Now I know otherwise I'll investigate the relevant regs.



I wonder how the "grand designs" bollox of putting an open bath in a bedroom
affects what you should call the room?

Tim



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On Fri, 13 May 2016 23:26:55 +0100, tim... wrote:


"Bert Coules" wrote in message
...
Thanks for all the replies. I was familiar with the concept of zones but
mistakenly thought that it only applied to a room containing a bath or
shower. Now I know otherwise I'll investigate the relevant regs.



I wonder how the "grand designs" bollox of putting an open bath in a bedroom
affects what you should call the room?


Hang on.... if I install a water bed, must I move the electrical points?

--
I remember your brother Jimmy, crying one summer's day,
"Why do you cry, young Jimmy?" I heard your granddad say.
"'Cause I can't do what the big boys do, that's why I cry," said Jim,
"Move over then," said your granddad, and he sat down and cried with him.
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On Fri, 13 May 2016 23:26:55 +0100, tim... wrote:


"Bert Coules" wrote in message
...
Thanks for all the replies. I was familiar with the concept of zones but
mistakenly thought that it only applied to a room containing a bath or
shower. Now I know otherwise I'll investigate the relevant regs.



I wonder how the "grand designs" bollox of putting an open bath in a bedroom
affects what you should call the room?


Hang on.... if I install a water bed, must I move the electrical points?

--
I remember your brother Jimmy, crying one summer's day,
"Why do you cry, young Jimmy?" I heard your granddad say.
"'Cause I can't do what the big boys do, that's why I cry," said Jim,
"Move over then," said your granddad, and he sat down and cried with him.


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Default What makes a bathroom a bathroom?

On Fri, 13 May 2016 23:26:55 +0100, tim... wrote:


"Bert Coules" wrote in message
...
Thanks for all the replies. I was familiar with the concept of zones but
mistakenly thought that it only applied to a room containing a bath or
shower. Now I know otherwise I'll investigate the relevant regs.



I wonder how the "grand designs" bollox of putting an open bath in a bedroom
affects what you should call the room?


Hang on.... if I install a water bed, must I move the electrical points?

--
I remember your brother Jimmy, crying one summer's day,
"Why do you cry, young Jimmy?" I heard your granddad say.
"'Cause I can't do what the big boys do, that's why I cry," said Jim,
"Move over then," said your granddad, and he sat down and cried with him.
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Default What makes a bathroom a bathroom?

On Fri, 13 May 2016 23:26:55 +0100, tim... wrote:


"Bert Coules" wrote in message
...
Thanks for all the replies. I was familiar with the concept of zones but
mistakenly thought that it only applied to a room containing a bath or
shower. Now I know otherwise I'll investigate the relevant regs.



I wonder how the "grand designs" bollox of putting an open bath in a bedroom
affects what you should call the room?


Hang on.... if I install a water bed, must I move the electrical points?

--
I remember your brother Jimmy, crying one summer's day,
"Why do you cry, young Jimmy?" I heard your granddad say.
"'Cause I can't do what the big boys do, that's why I cry," said Jim,
"Move over then," said your granddad, and he sat down and cried with him.
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Default What makes a bathroom a bathroom?

On 13/05/2016 18:53, Bert Coules wrote:

Thanks for all the replies. I was familiar with the concept of zones
but mistakenly thought that it only applied to a room containing a bath
or shower.


You were correct.

Now I know otherwise I'll investigate the relevant regs.


You have now been erroneously corrected!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
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Default What makes a bathroom a bathroom?

On 13/05/2016 15:44, Bert Coules wrote:
I'm thinking about converting a downstairs bathroom to a utility room:
retaining the loo and basin (possibly replacing it with one of a
different style), removing the bath, adding a washing machine and a
tumble dryer. So I'll have to install, or have installed, a couple of
mains sockets.

Does taking out the bath mean that the bathroom building regs no longer
apply? If not, what is the criterion which defines a bathroom and means
that no sockets are allowed?

Thanks.


On a slightly different tack, having looked at numerous Right Move,
Zoopla and builders' own descriptions, I am getting heartily sick of
bathrooms without baths! If it only has a shower, let it be a shower
room or dream up some other name, anyone for "indoor rain room"?

--
Rod
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Default What makes a bathroom a bathroom?

"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 13/05/2016 15:44, Bert Coules wrote:
I'm thinking about converting a downstairs bathroom to a utility room:
retaining the loo and basin (possibly replacing it with one of a
different style), removing the bath, adding a washing machine and a
tumble dryer. So I'll have to install, or have installed, a couple of
mains sockets.

Does taking out the bath mean that the bathroom building regs no longer
apply? If not, what is the criterion which defines a bathroom and means
that no sockets are allowed?

Thanks.


On a slightly different tack, having looked at numerous Right Move, Zoopla
and builders' own descriptions, I am getting heartily sick of bathrooms
without baths! If it only has a shower, let it be a shower room or dream
up some other name, anyone for "indoor rain room"?



Wet room.

--
Adam



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