On 22/04/2016 10:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxxx wrote:
Creating ill feeling amongst countries does. Giving employment to
foreigners from developing ****ries over the indigenous population and
depressing wages exacerbates the ill feeling.

But not to those who benefit from those immigrants.

If you removed all immigrants, the country would grind to a halt. The
notion that there are UK nationals who would fill all the jobs left vacant
is nonsense.

So what you are saying is there would be increased demand for workers.

So in effect you agree that wages would increase for the majority, where
the only pain would be felt by businesses who benefit from paying third
world wages.

On 22/04/2016 11:09, Rod Speed wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Fredxxx wrote

Creating ill feeling amongst countries does. Giving employment to
foreigners from developing ****ries over the indigenous population
and depressing wages exacerbates the ill feeling.

But not to those who benefit from those immigrants.

If you removed all immigrants, the country would
grind to a halt. The notion that there are UK nationals
who would fill all the jobs left vacant is nonsense.

They would if they would lose their benefits if they didn’t.

There are ways of making oneself unemployable but it would make
sanctions less morally repugnant.

On 22/04/2016 11:04, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...
On 22/04/2016 07:06, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...
On 17/04/2016 11:27, Bob Martin wrote:
in 1477095 20160417 092908 Tim Streater
wrote:
In article , Stuart Noble
wrote:

On 17/04/2016 07:41, Bob Martin wrote:
in 1476921 20160416 134307 The Natural Philosopher

wrote:
On 16/04/16 11:42, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
[1] Mr and Mrs Pillock, what with her being a (former?) MEP
and all,
will be trousering several hundred k a year in EU pensions
and so
forth. No wonder they're supporting "remain".

And you'll expect Farage to give up his?

No, but then I'm not a kipper.

Nigel has said on many occasions he would be delighted to go back
to his
old job, and get right out of politics once we are right out of
the EU.

He remains one of the few politicians I almost believe.

I don't trust the opinion of anyone who thinks the EU issue is
black and
white. There are advantages and disadvantages to our membership,
and
anyone who thinks otherwise is letting his ideology rule his head.

Of course. But the question of sovereignty trumps everything.

Why? You need to justify that statement. Certainly not true for me.


Europe has form when it comes to creating world wars. If the EU
helps
prevent that, then I'm in. Easy to get complacent but it could all
happen over again

Next one will happen *because* of the EU.

Why? You need to justify that statement. Sounds like nonsense.

Just look what has happened after allowing third world countries to
join the EU.

That isnt what produced two world wars.

Creating ill feeling amongst countries does.

Nope. Much more is involved with WORLD wars.

Giving employment to foreigners from developing ****ries over the
indigenous population and depressing wages exacerbates the ill feeling.

But wasn’t involved in what produced two WORLD wars.

Some will take migrants, others won't because accepting Muslims is
against their culture.

It ain't that, they won't even let them transit their country.

The Muslim problem is looking more like the Jewish problem a century
ago.

That isnt what produced even one world war.

Jewish haters voting in Hitler helped,

Nope. He got in because Germany was in such a
desperate situation economically that many of the
voters decided that they had nothing to lose and that
he might well be able to do something about that.

He did too, doing precisely what FDR did in the US,
massive govt deficit spending that got the economy
going again.

Agreed.

Nothing whatever to do with jewish haters.

Are you suggesting the National Socialist German Workers' Party
manifesto didn't have clauses referring to Jews and charging interest?

in very much the same way the right wing parties in Europe are
receiving votes because of their stance against Muslims.

They don’t have any possibility of ever driving the bus.

UKIP couldn’t even managed to get Farage elected.

Yes, we now have welfare. Less to get worked up about. Not many EU
nationals went hungry or suffered from malnutrition.

The apologist Burford will confirm.

Burford is completely irrelevant.

Agreed, he is irrelevant but has a hangup about apologists.

"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...
On 22/04/2016 10:33, wrote:
On Friday, 22 April 2016 10:23:22 UTC+1, Fredxxx wrote:
On 22/04/2016 07:06, Rod Speed wrote:
"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...

The Muslim problem is looking more like the Jewish problem a century
ago.

That isnt what produced even one world war.

Jewish haters voting in Hitler helped, in very much the same way the
right wing parties in Europe are receiving votes because of their stance
against Muslims.

There's a rather large difference between the agendas of these 2 groups.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islami...and_the_Levant
You couldn't make it up.

Agreed their stances are very different where each group is/was hated for
different reasons.

In the 1930's there was little welfare,

That isnt true of Germany.

and so perhaps you can see why Jews were hated so much.

They weren't until Adolf revved that up.

Much like bankers in the late 2000's.

Nothing like that in fact.

Many banks have Jewish origins, hastily hidden post WW2.

Many more don’t.

Are you going to disagree that the rise of the right wing elements in the
EU is enhanced by Muslim refugees entering their coutries?

Corse it is but that has nothing to do with what produces WORD wars.

"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...
On 22/04/2016 11:09, Rod Speed wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Fredxxx wrote

Creating ill feeling amongst countries does. Giving employment to
foreigners from developing ****ries over the indigenous population
and depressing wages exacerbates the ill feeling.

But not to those who benefit from those immigrants.

If you removed all immigrants, the country would
grind to a halt. The notion that there are UK nationals
who would fill all the jobs left vacant is nonsense.

They would if they would lose their benefits if they didn’t.

There are ways of making oneself unemployable

Sure, but you lose your benefits anyway.

but it would make sanctions less morally repugnant.

Nothing morally repugnant about saying to those
on benefits that if they don’t take one of the jobs
offered to them that they will lose their benefits.

"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...
On 22/04/2016 11:04, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...
On 22/04/2016 07:06, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...
On 17/04/2016 11:27, Bob Martin wrote:
in 1477095 20160417 092908 Tim Streater
wrote:
In article , Stuart Noble
wrote:

On 17/04/2016 07:41, Bob Martin wrote:
in 1476921 20160416 134307 The Natural Philosopher

wrote:
On 16/04/16 11:42, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
[1] Mr and Mrs Pillock, what with her being a (former?) MEP
and all,
will be trousering several hundred k a year in EU pensions
and so
forth. No wonder they're supporting "remain".

And you'll expect Farage to give up his?

No, but then I'm not a kipper.

Nigel has said on many occasions he would be delighted to go back
to his
old job, and get right out of politics once we are right out of
the EU.

He remains one of the few politicians I almost believe.

I don't trust the opinion of anyone who thinks the EU issue is
black and
white. There are advantages and disadvantages to our membership,
and
anyone who thinks otherwise is letting his ideology rule his head.

Of course. But the question of sovereignty trumps everything.

Why? You need to justify that statement. Certainly not true for me.


Europe has form when it comes to creating world wars. If the EU
helps
prevent that, then I'm in. Easy to get complacent but it could all
happen over again

Next one will happen *because* of the EU.

Why? You need to justify that statement. Sounds like nonsense.

Just look what has happened after allowing third world countries to
join the EU.

That isnt what produced two world wars.

Creating ill feeling amongst countries does.

Nope. Much more is involved with WORLD wars.

Giving employment to foreigners from developing ****ries over the
indigenous population and depressing wages exacerbates the ill feeling.

But wasn’t involved in what produced two WORLD wars.

Some will take migrants, others won't because accepting Muslims is
against their culture.

It ain't that, they won't even let them transit their country.

The Muslim problem is looking more like the Jewish problem a century
ago.

That isnt what produced even one world war.

Jewish haters voting in Hitler helped,

Nope. He got in because Germany was in such a
desperate situation economically that many of the
voters decided that they had nothing to lose and that
he might well be able to do something about that.

He did too, doing precisely what FDR did in the US,
massive govt deficit spending that got the economy
going again.

Agreed.

Nothing whatever to do with jewish haters.

Are you suggesting the National Socialist German Workers' Party manifesto
didn't have clauses referring to Jews and charging interest?

in very much the same way the right wing parties in Europe are
receiving votes because of their stance against Muslims.

They don’t have any possibility of ever driving the bus.

UKIP couldn’t even managed to get Farage elected.

Yes, we now have welfare. Less to get worked up about. Not many EU
nationals went hungry or suffered from malnutrition.

That wasn’t why most voted for him.

They voted for him because they decided that he might well
be able to do something useful about the state of the economy.

He did too.

The apologist Burford will confirm.

Burford is completely irrelevant.

Agreed, he is irrelevant but has a hangup about apologists.

On Friday, 22 April 2016 07:52:54 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 17 April 2016 21:56:23 UTC+1, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 16/04/2016 13:43, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
He remains one of the few politicians I almost believe.

I believe that when Corbyn says something is good he honestly thinks it
is. I seriously believe that Corbyn is also one of those rare creatures
- an honest politician with morals and principles.

So he won't win then will he.

He won't win because even the most stupid voter has
noticed that nationalisation of everything doesn't work.

if he's an honest politician with morals and principles he won't win.
You just can't win by telling the truth.

On Friday, 22 April 2016 10:44:15 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxxx wrote:
Creating ill feeling amongst countries does. Giving employment to
foreigners from developing ****ries over the indigenous population and
depressing wages exacerbates the ill feeling.

But not to those who benefit from those immigrants.

If you removed all immigrants, the country would grind to a halt. The
notion that there are UK nationals who would fill all the jobs left vacant
is nonsense.

Yep if all the Polish left (as an example) who would work in all the Polish shops selling Polish produce ?

In article ,
Fredxxx wrote:
On 22/04/2016 10:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxxx wrote:
Creating ill feeling amongst countries does. Giving employment to
foreigners from developing ****ries over the indigenous population and
depressing wages exacerbates the ill feeling.

But not to those who benefit from those immigrants.

If you removed all immigrants, the country would grind to a halt. The
notion that there are UK nationals who would fill all the jobs left vacant
is nonsense.

So what you are saying is there would be increased demand for workers.

There would be jobs to be filled, yes. But with many, no suitable UK born
for them.

So in effect you agree that wages would increase for the majority, where
the only pain would be felt by businesses who benefit from paying third
world wages.

You've fallen into the trap of assuming all immigrants only do low paid
manual unskilled jobs. The reality is very different.

--
*Many people quit looking for work when they find a job *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 22 April 2016 10:44:15 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Fredxxx
wrote:
Creating ill feeling amongst countries does. Giving employment to
foreigners from developing ****ries over the indigenous population
and depressing wages exacerbates the ill feeling.

But not to those who benefit from those immigrants.

If you removed all immigrants, the country would grind to a halt. The
notion that there are UK nationals who would fill all the jobs left
vacant is nonsense.

Yep if all the Polish left (as an example) who would work in all the
Polish shops selling Polish produce ?

But, you have to remember that a lot of Poles came here in 1945.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

In article ,
charles wrote:
Yep if all the Polish left (as an example) who would work in all the
Polish shops selling Polish produce ?

But, you have to remember that a lot of Poles came here in 1945.

Yup - and settled round here in Balham. Even have a large posh Polish Club.

--
*The modem is the message *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
charles wrote:
Yep if all the Polish left (as an example) who would work in all the
Polish shops selling Polish produce ?

But, you have to remember that a lot of Poles came here in 1945.

Yup - and settled round here in Balham. Even have a large posh Polish Club.

and Hammersmith/Ealing. I remember from the 60's a newsagent, in King
Street, where all the cards in the window were written in Polish. Also a
large contingent in Edinburgh

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On Friday, 22 April 2016 13:22:09 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 22 April 2016 10:44:15 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Fredxxx
wrote:
Creating ill feeling amongst countries does. Giving employment to
foreigners from developing ****ries over the indigenous population
and depressing wages exacerbates the ill feeling.

But not to those who benefit from those immigrants.

If you removed all immigrants, the country would grind to a halt. The
notion that there are UK nationals who would fill all the jobs left
vacant is nonsense.

Yep if all the Polish left (as an example) who would work in all the
Polish shops selling Polish produce ?

But, you have to remember that a lot of Poles came here in 1945.

So why weren't there loads of Polski Sklep in those times ?
Why are there so few people in them, I'm expecting in a few years if anyone bothers to look into it you;ll find it's a money laundering scam for a lot of those shops.
I wonder if they'll all close down if we leave the EU where will they get their produce from when Poland refuse to sell it to their citizens in the UK because we are no longer in the EU.
we weren't in the EU in 1945 either were we.

Of course it's not just the EU we should be concerned about.

http://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/116... egal_workers/

Not that illigal immigrants pose any prolems they don't get benifits.





--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 22 April 2016 13:22:09 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 22 April 2016 10:44:15 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Fredxxx
wrote:
Creating ill feeling amongst countries does. Giving employment to
foreigners from developing ****ries over the indigenous population
and depressing wages exacerbates the ill feeling.

But not to those who benefit from those immigrants.

If you removed all immigrants, the country would grind to a halt.
The notion that there are UK nationals who would fill all the jobs
left vacant is nonsense.

Yep if all the Polish left (as an example) who would work in all the
Polish shops selling Polish produce ?

But, you have to remember that a lot of Poles came here in 1945.

So why weren't there loads of Polski Sklep in those times ?

There quite a few. Mind you getting products from Poland in those days
might have been difficult - Iron Curtain and all that entailed.

Why are there so few people in them, I'm expecting in a few years if
anyone bothers to look into it you;ll find it's a money laundering scam
for a lot of those shops.

I wonder if they'll all close down if we leave the EU where will they get
their produce from when Poland refuse to sell it to their citizens in the
UK because we are no longer in the EU. we weren't in the EU in 1945
either were we.

since it didn't exist it would have been rather difficult.


--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On Friday, 22 April 2016 16:31:38 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 22 April 2016 13:22:09 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 22 April 2016 10:44:15 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Fredxxx
wrote:
Creating ill feeling amongst countries does. Giving employment to
foreigners from developing ****ries over the indigenous population
and depressing wages exacerbates the ill feeling.

But not to those who benefit from those immigrants.

If you removed all immigrants, the country would grind to a halt.
The notion that there are UK nationals who would fill all the jobs
left vacant is nonsense.

Yep if all the Polish left (as an example) who would work in all the
Polish shops selling Polish produce ?

But, you have to remember that a lot of Poles came here in 1945.

So why weren't there loads of Polski Sklep in those times ?

There quite a few.

Quite a few in teh UK London or my high street/road ?


Mind you getting products from Poland in those days
might have been difficult - Iron Curtain and all that entailed.

As was a lot of things.


Why are there so few people in them, I'm expecting in a few years if
anyone bothers to look into it you;ll find it's a money laundering scam
for a lot of those shops.

I wonder if they'll all close down if we leave the EU where will they get
their produce from when Poland refuse to sell it to their citizens in the
UK because we are no longer in the EU. we weren't in the EU in 1945
either were we.

since it didn't exist it would have been rather difficult.

So I don;lt see the EU as teh great leap forward others claim.
Technology, transport, is what has imporved.

If they'd just stop making claims about the EI, we wouldn;t have thios or we wouldn;t have that, it'd happen anyway just like supersocnic flight wouldn;t have happened without the EU !!!!!!!!!!

Oh yeah we were talking, trading and even working togther in Europe BEFORE the EU, why is that forgotten. We could build a plane together fastest in the world beating the USA and every other country.
if concord had have just been completed today everyone would say it's because we are in the EU that we can do this.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 22 April 2016 07:52:54 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 17 April 2016 21:56:23 UTC+1, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 16/04/2016 13:43, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
He remains one of the few politicians I almost believe.

I believe that when Corbyn says something is good he honestly thinks
it
is. I seriously believe that Corbyn is also one of those rare
creatures
- an honest politician with morals and principles.

So he won't win then will he.

He won't win because even the most stupid voter has
noticed that nationalisation of everything doesn't work.

if he's an honest politician with morals and principles he won't win.

Churchill was and he won, eventually.

You just can't win by telling the truth.

Bull****.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Bull****.

**** off Wodney.
Infest somewhere else.

On Friday, 22 April 2016 11:12:21 UTC+1, Fredxxx wrote:
On 22/04/2016 10:33, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 22 April 2016 10:23:22 UTC+1, Fredxxx wrote:
On 22/04/2016 07:06, Rod Speed wrote:
"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...

The Muslim problem is looking more like the Jewish problem a century ago.

That isnt what produced even one world war.

Jewish haters voting in Hitler helped, in very much the same way the
right wing parties in Europe are receiving votes because of their stance
against Muslims.

There's a rather large difference between the agendas of these 2 groups.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islami...and_the_Levant
You couldn't make it up.

Agreed their stances are very different where each group is/was hated
for different reasons.

In the 1930's there was little welfare, and so perhaps you can see why
Jews were hated so much. Much like bankers in the late 2000's. Many
banks have Jewish origins, hastily hidden post WW2.

you're understating the difference massively

Are you going to disagree that the rise of the right wing elements in
the EU is enhanced by Muslim refugees entering their coutries?


NT

On Friday, 22 April 2016 11:14:12 UTC+1, Fredxxx wrote:
On 22/04/2016 10:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxxx wrote:
Creating ill feeling amongst countries does. Giving employment to
foreigners from developing ****ries over the indigenous population and
depressing wages exacerbates the ill feeling.

But not to those who benefit from those immigrants.

If you removed all immigrants, the country would grind to a halt. The
notion that there are UK nationals who would fill all the jobs left vacant
is nonsense.

So what you are saying is there would be increased demand for workers.

So in effect you agree that wages would increase for the majority, where
the only pain would be felt by businesses

they'd simply pass the pain on to the consumer

who benefit from paying third
world wages.

1st world wages apply here. It's why foreigners come here.


NT

On Friday, 22 April 2016 11:46:19 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...

re hitler

Yes, we now have welfare. Less to get worked up about. Not many EU
nationals went hungry or suffered from malnutrition.

That wasn't why most voted for him.

They voted for him because they decided that he might well
be able to do something useful about the state of the economy.

and it was in a desperate state

He did too.

for a while. His warmaking and genocide decimated Germany of course.


NT

On Friday, 22 April 2016 23:55:04 UTC+1, bm wrote:
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...

Bull****.

**** off Wodney.
Infest somewhere else.

if only. We should have a whip round and buy his house, then he'll have no net connection. So many would be so grateful, maybe all those newsgroups would contribute something.


NT

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 22 April 2016 13:22:09 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 22 April 2016 10:44:15 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Fredxxx
wrote:
Creating ill feeling amongst countries does. Giving employment to
foreigners from developing ****ries over the indigenous population
and depressing wages exacerbates the ill feeling.

But not to those who benefit from those immigrants.

If you removed all immigrants, the country would grind to a halt. The
notion that there are UK nationals who would fill all the jobs left
vacant is nonsense.

Yep if all the Polish left (as an example) who would work in all the
Polish shops selling Polish produce ?

But, you have to remember that a lot of Poles came here in 1945.

So why weren't there loads of Polski Sklep in those times ?

Usual fashion/fad stuff.

Why are there so few people in them,

That's because you never wash your feet.

I'm expecting in a few years if anyone bothers to look into it
you;ll find it's a money laundering scam for a lot of those shops.

Not money laundering so much as a convenient way for poles
to send money home where the wife and kids still are.

I wonder if they'll all close down if we leave the EU

Unlikely given that there were lots of poles
in Britain before it joined the EEC.

where will they get their produce from when Poland refuse to sell
it to their citizens in the UK because we are no longer in the EU.

They ain't that stupid. They're happy to sell that stuff to the poles
here and we have always had lots of them since the war too.

we weren't in the EU in 1945 either were we.

Of course it's not just the EU we should be concerned about.

http://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/116... egal_workers/

Not that illigal immigrants pose any prolems they don't get benifits.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
********

**** off Wodney.
Infest somewhere else.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 22 April 2016 16:31:38 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 22 April 2016 13:22:09 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 22 April 2016 10:44:15 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , Fredxxx

wrote:
Creating ill feeling amongst countries does. Giving employment
to
foreigners from developing ****ries over the indigenous
population
and depressing wages exacerbates the ill feeling.

But not to those who benefit from those immigrants.

If you removed all immigrants, the country would grind to a halt.
The notion that there are UK nationals who would fill all the
jobs
left vacant is nonsense.

Yep if all the Polish left (as an example) who would work in all
the
Polish shops selling Polish produce ?

But, you have to remember that a lot of Poles came here in 1945.

So why weren't there loads of Polski Sklep in those times ?

There quite a few.

Quite a few in teh UK London or my high street/road ?


Mind you getting products from Poland in those days
might have been difficult - Iron Curtain and all that entailed.

As was a lot of things.


Why are there so few people in them, I'm expecting in a few years if
anyone bothers to look into it you;ll find it's a money laundering scam
for a lot of those shops.

I wonder if they'll all close down if we leave the EU where will they
get
their produce from when Poland refuse to sell it to their citizens in
the
UK because we are no longer in the EU. we weren't in the EU in 1945
either were we.

since it didn't exist it would have been rather difficult.

So I don;lt see the EU as teh great leap forward others claim.

It clearly was with the complete freedom of
movement of EU citizens anywhere within the EU.

Technology, transport, is what has imporved.

That too.

If they'd just stop making claims about the EI, we wouldn;t
have thios or we wouldn;t have that, it'd happen anyway

It wouldn't have with complete freedom of movement of EU citizens.

In fact since the war there has been much less freedom
of movement between countrys outside the EU and even
of commonwealth citizens to Britain.

just like supersocnic flight wouldn;t have happened without the EU
!!!!!!!!!!

Oh yeah we were talking, trading and even
working togther in Europe BEFORE the EU,

And endless wars between european countrys
in almost every generation.

why is that forgotten.

Same reason you have forgotten those wars.

We could build a plane together fastest in the
world beating the USA and every other country.

That never happened. Concorde was
only the fastest PASSENGER plane.

And wouldn't have happened without the EEC/EU anyway.

Airbus in spades.

if concord had have just been completed today everyone
would say it's because we are in the EU that we can do this.

And they'd be right.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
********

**** off Wodney.
Infest somewhere else.

wrote in message
...
On Friday, 22 April 2016 11:14:12 UTC+1, Fredxxx wrote:
On 22/04/2016 10:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Fredxxx wrote:
Creating ill feeling amongst countries does. Giving employment to
foreigners from developing ****ries over the indigenous population and
depressing wages exacerbates the ill feeling.

But not to those who benefit from those immigrants.

If you removed all immigrants, the country would grind to a halt. The
notion that there are UK nationals who would fill all the jobs left
vacant
is nonsense.

So what you are saying is there would be increased demand for workers.

So in effect you agree that wages would increase for the majority, where
the only pain would be felt by businesses

they'd simply pass the pain on to the consumer

Not even possible for plenty of them, most obviously
with those that attempt to manufacture in Britain.

who benefit from paying third world wages.

1st world wages apply here. It's why foreigners come here.

And why those who attempt to manufacture in Britain find that
they can't just pass on the pain of higher wages to their customers.

wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Fredxxx wrote

re hitler

Yes, we now have welfare. Less to get worked up about. Not
many EU nationals went hungry or suffered from malnutrition.

That wasn't why most voted for him.

They voted for him because they decided that he might well
be able to do something useful about the state of the economy.

and it was in a desperate state

Indeed it was and that is why they had thought they had nothing
to lose by giving him a go. They were just plain wrong about that,

He did too.

for a while. His warmaking and genocide decimated Germany of course.

It wasn't the genocide that did that, just the warmaking.

Tho it is very arguable whether he had any choice
on that. His massive deficit spending could never
have been paid for so arguably he had no choice
but to go to war so he would not have to pay it
back and could just loot the countrys he did invade.

whisky-dave wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote

With a united Europe

lok at the moneky see teh monkey hear the monkey.

the costs of a nuclear deterrent could be shared by all members.

Which it hasn;t done and should which proves just how
useful Eurpore actiualy is when doing something important.

Like no more wars between countrys in western europe.

But those who want out probably consider
many of those countries enemies anyway. ;-)

So why don't we have a nuclear detternt for
europe paid for buy the EU rather than the UK.

Because some weren't too keen in the idea of Germany
having nukes, or Italy either for that matter.

Can't imagine why for the life of me.

As regards the insulation scheme, I'd have been very interested if
it had offered options for the common older Victorian house. And
allowed at least a degree of DIY. But as it was implemented it looked
like just another pressure group (insulating firms etc) persuading the
government it would be a good idea. For only them, of course.

That's what the majority of the shemes are for including PAT testing.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 15/04/2016 07:23, harry wrote:
On Thursday, 14 April 2016 15:32:18 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 14/04/2016 11:41, michael adams wrote:
wrote in message
...

do you not know why we have military spending?

Yes.

And what's that got to do with the Trident programme.

Please explain why in your own words why the Trident
programme represents good value for money, as against
lesser sums which might have been spent, in recognition
of the changed world situation.


michael adams

...



Russia was never likely to start a nuclear war.


http://www.history.com/news/history-...ar-close-calls



Why don't you read that?
Why don't you ever read what you link too?

If you do then you may notice that it was the yanks that nearly went to
war in each case where aggression was present.

The two that were errors it was the Russians that decided not to go to
war.

It was the yanks that were going to war over Cuba too, they decided it was
fine to have short range nukes in Germany aimed at Russia but it was worth
destruction to stop the same short range missiles in Cuba.

It had nothing to do with destruction, Russia was
never going to nuke anyone over missiles in Cuba.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
whisky-dave wrote

the costs of a nuclear deterrent could be shared by all members.

Which it hasn;t done and should which proves just how
useful Eurpore actiualy is when doing something important.

Of course many would question just how important a nuclear deterrent is.

Specially with some soggy little frigid island that
isnt going to be any use to the Russians and all
the rest are free to show up any time they like now.

But those who want out probably consider
many of those countries enemies anyway. ;-)

So why don't we have a nuclear detternt for
europe paid for buy the EU rather than the UK.

You want the EU to pay for something without the UK contributing?
Figures...

In article ,
wrote:
On Friday, 22 April 2016 23:55:04 UTC+1, bm wrote:
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...

Bull****.

**** off Wodney.
Infest somewhere else.

if only. We should have a whip round and buy his house, then he'll have
no net connection. So many would be so grateful, maybe all those
newsgroups would contribute something.


We'd not need a whip round to buy his house. Most would have enough loose
change.

--
*How can I miss you if you won't go away?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Tim Streater wrote

Well, name one MEP from your favourite party who
is declining to take an EU pension. And preferably
one who isn't so rich it wouldn't matter anyway.

The number of people in any walk of life
who would turn down free dosh is small.

That's not true. Plenty of the stinking rich
don’t bother to apply for a state old aged
pension when that is available to everyone.

And plenty more like me just can't be
bothered doing the paperwork too.

It's not free dosh. Part of their salary package.

I have a bit more sympathy with MEPs who try to mitigate the
worst effect of the EU by arguing for Britain in EU committees.

Surely the idea of the EU is it works for the benefit of all?

Politics is never like that in anything other and cloud cuckoo land.

Absolutely no point in it if it is merely a fight between various
factions trying to get the best for their own agenda.

That's all politics ever is.

There's more than enough of that in the UK parliament.

Because that's all politics ever is.

But I have none at all for Commissioners,
since none of them does anything useful.

There we differ. Lots of very good thing have come from the EU.

An MEP who is fighting hard to put himself out of a job is Dan Hannan.

Ah. Another kipper lover. Say no more.

On Saturday, 23 April 2016 01:35:56 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 22 April 2016 13:22:09 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 22 April 2016 10:44:15 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Fredxxx
wrote:
Creating ill feeling amongst countries does. Giving employment to
foreigners from developing ****ries over the indigenous population
and depressing wages exacerbates the ill feeling.

But not to those who benefit from those immigrants.

If you removed all immigrants, the country would grind to a halt. The
notion that there are UK nationals who would fill all the jobs left
vacant is nonsense.

Yep if all the Polish left (as an example) who would work in all the
Polish shops selling Polish produce ?

But, you have to remember that a lot of Poles came here in 1945.

So why weren't there loads of Polski Sklep in those times ?

Usual fashion/fad stuff.

Food has only recently become in fashion.
Name a famous Polish dish, without searching google or othert search engine..



I'm expecting in a few years if anyone bothers to look into it
you;ll find it's a money laundering scam for a lot of those shops.

Not money laundering so much as a convenient way for poles
to send money home where the wife and kids still are.

That is partly true although they don't need a shop to do it for them.



I wonder if they'll all close down if we leave the EU

Unlikely given that there were lots of poles
in Britain before it joined the EEC.

Doesn;t matter how many poles therei are , it's the food in tehm isn;t standard british, and remmebr if we leave the EU all hope of trade dies too apparently we'll no longer get polish food the EU will refuse to supply Polish food to the UK, we're no longer ion the European market rememeber.
SO who will suffer....
I've never tried the produce in those shops so if it goes up in price why should I care or any other british person care.
So one of those sausages goes up in price from £1 to £20 do I care ?
It's teh Polish export market that will suffer not us fish n chip bacon sarnie pie and mash easters.




where will they get their produce from when Poland refuse to sell
it to their citizens in the UK because we are no longer in the EU.

They ain't that stupid. They're happy to sell that stuff to the poles
here and we have always had lots of them since the war too.

So what's this we won't be able to trade with teh EU then ?
We we doing that 1000s of years before the EU came about, and we'll do it again.


we weren't in the EU in 1945 either were we.

Of course it's not just the EU we should be concerned about.

http://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/116... egal_workers/

Not that illigal immigrants pose any prolems they don't get benifits.

On Saturday, 23 April 2016 02:00:01 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message


So I don't see the EU as teh great leap forward others claim.

It clearly was with the complete freedom of
movement of EU citizens anywhere within the EU.

and electric light was a wonder too 100 years ago, not so amazing now.




It wouldn't have with complete freedom of movement of EU citizens.

In fact since the war there has been much less freedom
of movement between countrys outside the EU and even
of commonwealth citizens to Britain.

So...


just like supersocnic flight wouldn;t have happened without the EU
!!!!!!!!!!

Oh yeah we were talking, trading and even
working togther in Europe BEFORE the EU,

And endless wars between european countrys
in almost every generation.

yes that;s an important point and we didn't join in with the Nazis in germany in order to change them. France didn't join the Nazi's .
How many joined the Nazis in Europe ?

You shouldn't join a group with the aim of changing them.
Poeple don't join football clubs so they can play basketball instead.

if you join a rambling club you leabr to walk long istances not expect the club to take up your hobby of hang gliding.



why is that forgotten.

Same reason you have forgotten those wars.

They aren't forgotten.


We could build a plane together fastest in the
world beating the USA and every other country.

That never happened. Concorde was
only the fastest PASSENGER plane.

Only the fastest passenger plane yes built before the EU.
Almost 4 years before we joined the EU.



And wouldn't have happened without the EEC/EU anyway.

yes it would.


Airbus in spades.

China and the USA mostly



if concord had have just been completed today everyone
would say it's because we are in the EU that we can do this.

And they'd be right.

Wrong as usual.

On Saturday, 23 April 2016 07:53:19 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
whisky-dave wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote

With a united Europe

lok at the moneky see teh monkey hear the monkey.

the costs of a nuclear deterrent could be shared by all members.

Which it hasn;t done and should which proves just how
useful Eurpore actiualy is when doing something important.

Like no more wars between countrys in western europe.

There weren;t any wars in western Europe, or why did they leave it 30+ years before the UK joined the EU, you'd have thopught that would have been sorted within a very short time perdiod.

it was the Treaty of Rome, creating the European Economic Community (EEC), or ' common market ' in 1957.



But those who want out probably consider
many of those countries enemies anyway. ;-)

So why don't we have a nuclear detternt for
europe paid for buy the EU rather than the UK.

Because some weren't too keen in the idea of Germany
having nukes, or Italy either for that matter.

Can't imagine why for the life of me.

No idea either as we have the treaty of rome and when was trident built ?

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 23 April 2016 01:35:56 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 22 April 2016 13:22:09 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 22 April 2016 10:44:15 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Fredxxx

wrote:
Creating ill feeling amongst countries does. Giving employment
to
foreigners from developing ****ries over the indigenous
population
and depressing wages exacerbates the ill feeling.

But not to those who benefit from those immigrants.

If you removed all immigrants, the country would grind to a halt.
The
notion that there are UK nationals who would fill all the jobs
left
vacant is nonsense.

Yep if all the Polish left (as an example) who would work in all the
Polish shops selling Polish produce ?

But, you have to remember that a lot of Poles came here in 1945.

So why weren't there loads of Polski Sklep in those times ?

Usual fashion/fad stuff.

Food has only recently become in fashion.

I wasn't talking about the food, just the shops.

And that's a lie anyway, most obviously with curry.

You lot have always had fashion/fad stuff with food,
even back in the 19th century with french cooks etc.

Name a famous Polish dish, without
searching google or othert search engine.

Doesn't have to be famous to be fashionable/faddy
enough to make some types of shops viable.

I'm expecting in a few years if anyone bothers to look into it
you;ll find it's a money laundering scam for a lot of those shops.

Not money laundering so much as a convenient way for poles
to send money home where the wife and kids still are.

That is partly true

Completely true except for those who
chose to stay after the war had ended.

although they don't need a shop to do it for them.

Plenty of them still do things the old fashioned way, just
like with you lot paying your electricity bills and rent etc.

I wonder if they'll all close down if we leave the EU

Unlikely given that there were lots of poles
in Britain before it joined the EEC.

Doesn;t matter how many poles therei are,

Corse it does when they are the main customers in those stores.

it's the food in tehm isn;t standard british,

What matters is who buys them.

and remmebr if we leave the EU all hope of trade dies too apparently

Even sillier than you usually manage.

we'll no longer get polish food the EU
will refuse to supply Polish food to the UK,

Even sillier than you usually manage.

we're no longer ion the European market rememeber.

And you weren't before Britain joined the EEC and
still got plenty of food from europe, particularly
once it had recovered from the war.

SO who will suffer....

No one food imports wise.

I've never tried the produce in those shops so if it goes up in price

Why should it ? It's the exports to the EU that
might well see some tariffs and quotas applied.

And its unlikely that Britain will bother about imports
of polish food from poland given that far more food
is imported from other parts of the EU.

why should I care or any other british person care.

Clearly those who choose to eat imported food might well do.

So one of those sausages goes up in price from £1 to £20

That isnt going to happen.

do I care ?

Depends on how much of it you eat.

It's teh Polish export market that will suffer

I doubt it.

not us fish n chip bacon sarnie pie and mash easters.

Britain imports quite a bit of the food it eats from europe.

That's how you ended up with horse meat.

The prices of what you get in aldi and lidl will increase if Britain
leaves and Britain and the EU start having a mindless trade war
with increased tariffs and quotas but IMO they are unlikely to
be that stupid.

where will they get their produce from when Poland refuse to sell
it to their citizens in the UK because we are no longer in the EU.

They ain't that stupid. They're happy to sell that stuff to the poles
here and we have always had lots of them since the war too.

So what's this we won't be able to trade with teh EU then ?

Only fools have ever been stupid enough to run that line.

We we doing that 1000s of years before
the EU came about, and we'll do it again.

No one but a fool has ever said otherwise.

we weren't in the EU in 1945 either were we.

Of course it's not just the EU we should be concerned about.

http://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/116... egal_workers/

Not that illigal immigrants pose any prolems they don't get benifits.

whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
whisky-dave wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote

With a united Europe

lok at the moneky see teh monkey hear the monkey.

the costs of a nuclear deterrent could be shared by all members.

Which it hasn;t done and should which proves just how
useful Eurpore actiualy is when doing something important.

Like no more wars between countrys in western europe.

There weren;t any wars in western Europe,

No world wars eh ? Yeah, right.

or why did they leave it 30+ years before the UK joined the EU,

Essentially because de Gaulle didn't want Britain involved and
it took that long before his opinion on that to be irrelevant.

you'd have thopught that would have been
sorted within a very short time perdiod.

It took a while before even France and Germany got
enough of a clue to decide that it was the way to go.

it was the Treaty of Rome, creating the European Economic
Community (EEC), or ' common market ' in 1957.

That was indeed the first incarnation of what eventually
morphed into the EU after it turned out to be a useful result.

But those who want out probably consider
many of those countries enemies anyway. ;-)

So why don't we have a nuclear detternt for
europe paid for buy the EU rather than the UK.

Because some weren't too keen in the idea of Germany
having nukes, or Italy either for that matter.

Can't imagine why for the life of me.

No idea either as we have the treaty
of rome and when was trident built ?

Try that again in english, I don't read gobbledegook.