https://www.youtube.com/embed/y-rEI4bezWc

Why?
Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"harry" wrote in message
...
https://www.youtube.com/embed/y-rEI4bezWc

harry wrote

https://www.youtube.com/embed/y-rEI4bezWc

Still needs a lot of work. There is no way that 'go to the
nearest exit' is going to be where the drone is, stupid.

Rod Speed wrote:
harry wrote

https://www.youtube.com/embed/y-rEI4bezWc

Still needs a lot of work. There is no way that 'go to the
nearest exit' is going to be where the drone is, stupid.

Stupid Australian trolling ****.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!ms...g/arbvFRAzMq0J

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-settlers.html

On 09/11/2015 16:30, harry wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/y-rEI4bezWc


AEDs are an excellent idea but an awful lot of public places already
have one mounted on a wall somewhere. If you dial 999 and they decide
you need one, you will be directed to the closest. As, in the UK at
least, drones have to be within 500m of the operator, the extra
complication of a drone seems pointless.

--
Colin Bignell

On 09/11/2015 19:59, Nightjar cpb wrote:
On 09/11/2015 16:30, harry wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/y-rEI4bezWc


AEDs are an excellent idea snip

Not so sure, genuinely. If the ambulance is only a few minutes away,
why stop CPR while the AED takes measurements? This is valuable time
when blood could be circulating, albeit at a much reduced rate.

Cheers
--
Syd

"Nightjar cpb.me.uk" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 09/11/2015 16:30, harry wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/y-rEI4bezWc


AEDs are an excellent idea but an awful lot of public places already have
one mounted on a wall somewhere. If you dial 999 and they decide you need
one, you will be directed to the closest. As, in the UK at least, drones
have to be within 500m of the operator, the extra complication of a drone
seems pointless.

Dunno, it would make vandalism much less of a
problem and would likely be much cheaper too.

And that approach would fix the problem I had too.

And the within 500m of the operator wouldn’t have to apply to those.

On Monday, November 9, 2015 at 8:00:12 PM UTC, wrote:
On 09/11/2015 16:30, harry wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/y-rEI4bezWc


AEDs are an excellent idea but an awful lot of public places already
have one mounted on a wall somewhere. If you dial 999 and they decide
you need one, you will be directed to the closest. As, in the UK at
least, drones have to be within 500m of the operator, the extra
complication of a drone seems pointless.

--
Colin Bignell

http://dronelife.com/2015/11/06/japa...e-regulations/

"Mr Pounder Esquire" wrote in message
...
Rod Speed wrote:
harry wrote

https://www.youtube.com/embed/y-rEI4bezWc

Still needs a lot of work. There is no way that 'go to the
nearest exit' is going to be where the drone is, stupid.

Stupid Australian trolling ****.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!ms...g/arbvFRAzMq0J

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-settlers.html

Spot on.

On Monday, 9 November 2015 17:27:02 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
Why?
Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"harry" wrote in message
...
https://www.youtube.com/embed/y-rEI4bezWc

I can think of a few practical difficulties myself.
eg
Who is actually flying the thing and how do they know where to go?
Must they keep it in sight?
What happens if it loses it's control/video signal[behind a building say]?

Sounds like someone's got a toy and trying to justify/find a use for it.

harry wrote
harry wrote

https://www.youtube.com/embed/y-rEI4bezWc

I can think of a few practical difficulties myself.
eg
Who is actually flying the thing

It flys itself.

and how do they know where to go?

The person who needs it says where its needed.

Must they keep it in sight?

Nope, because it flys itself.

What happens if it loses it's control/video signal[behind a building say]?

It isn't controlled by anyone, it flys itself.

Sounds like someone's got a toy and
trying to justify/find a use for it.

Then you need to get those ears tested, BAD.

On 09/11/2015 22:04, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar cpb.me.uk" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 09/11/2015 16:30, harry wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/y-rEI4bezWc


AEDs are an excellent idea but an awful lot of public places already
have one mounted on a wall somewhere. If you dial 999 and they decide
you need one, you will be directed to the closest. As, in the UK at
least, drones have to be within 500m of the operator, the extra
complication of a drone seems pointless.

Dunno, it would make vandalism much less of a
problem and would likely be much cheaper too.

Even where I know of units placed on a wall in the high street,
vandalism does not seem to be a problem. Possibly the fact that the box
is clearly marked that opening it will alert the emergency services and
there is CCTV covering the area might help.


And that approach would fix the problem I had too.

And the within 500m of the operator wouldn’t have to apply to those.

As the law stands in the UK, it would. Strictly, the rule is that the
drone must stay within the operator's line of sight, which is generally
taken to be 500m horizontally and 400ft vertically.

--
Colin Bignell

On 09/11/2015 21:25, Syd Rumpo wrote:
On 09/11/2015 19:59, Nightjar cpb wrote:
On 09/11/2015 16:30, harry wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/y-rEI4bezWc


AEDs are an excellent idea snip

Not so sure, genuinely. If the ambulance is only a few minutes away,

The target is that first response should reach the victim within eight
minutes. A transport ambulance should arrive within 19 minutes. Not all
calls achieve those targets.

why stop CPR while the AED takes measurements? This is valuable time
when blood could be circulating, albeit at a much reduced rate.

Part of the logic is that not everybody can do CPR, but anybody can
follow the instructions from an AED.


--
Colin Bignell

In message , "Nightjar
cpb" "insert my surname writes
On 09/11/2015 21:25, Syd Rumpo wrote:
On 09/11/2015 19:59, Nightjar cpb wrote:
On 09/11/2015 16:30, harry wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/y-rEI4bezWc


AEDs are an excellent idea snip

Not so sure, genuinely. If the ambulance is only a few minutes away,

The target is that first response should reach the victim within eight
minutes. A transport ambulance should arrive within 19 minutes. Not all
calls achieve those targets.

Indeed, our village is 20 mins drive from the nearest ambulance station,
- even blue lighting it I doubt they would do it in less than 15. Ok,
the ambulance might already be out somewhere, but that doesn't mean it
will be nearer.

why stop CPR while the AED takes measurements? This is valuable time
when blood could be circulating, albeit at a much reduced rate.

Part of the logic is that not everybody can do CPR, but anybody can
follow the instructions from an AED.


Yes, and the effectiveness of CPR is limited - it's not like the TV :-)
And even people who can do CPR, lots of them are probably like me and
somewhat rusty
--
Chris French

In message , "Nightjar
cpb" "insert my surname writes
On 09/11/2015 22:04, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar cpb.me.uk" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 09/11/2015 16:30, harry wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/y-rEI4bezWc


AEDs are an excellent idea but an awful lot of public places already
have one mounted on a wall somewhere. If you dial 999 and they decide
you need one, you will be directed to the closest. As, in the UK at
least, drones have to be within 500m of the operator, the extra
complication of a drone seems pointless.

Dunno, it would make vandalism much less of a
problem and would likely be much cheaper too.

Even where I know of units placed on a wall in the high street,
vandalism does not seem to be a problem. Possibly the fact that the box
is clearly marked that opening it will alert the emergency services and
there is CCTV covering the area might help.

Yup, we have one on the village high street. On the wall outside the
village shop, it's never suffered vandalism (and we do get it in places
in the village)
--
Chris French

On 10/11/2015 10:14, Nightjar cpb wrote:
but anybody can follow the instructions from an AED.

Yup your significant other/parent is lying there not breathing and
covered in their own vomit. Of course anyone (hah) will be calm
enough to use a piece of medical equipment.

(IMHO) You cannot ask an acquaintance of the injured party to do
ANYTHING beyond the "keep pressure on here"/ "go direct the Ambulance
to here" sort of help. Yes some will 'keep their heads' and do
anything you say but most will just be a 'gibbering mess".


ANECDOTE :-
I was the first aider at work when a guest had a heart attack and I had
to perform CPR on him, I was flapping big style (brought him back a
couple of times and he was still alive when he was put in the
Ambulance) if it had been someone I knew, I doubt I could have followed
instructions on how to use fairly technical equipment.

"Nightjar cpb.me.uk" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 09/11/2015 22:04, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar cpb.me.uk" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 09/11/2015 16:30, harry wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/y-rEI4bezWc


AEDs are an excellent idea but an awful lot of public places already
have one mounted on a wall somewhere. If you dial 999 and they decide
you need one, you will be directed to the closest. As, in the UK at
least, drones have to be within 500m of the operator, the extra
complication of a drone seems pointless.

Dunno, it would make vandalism much less of a
problem and would likely be much cheaper too.

Even where I know of units placed on a wall in the high street, vandalism
does not seem to be a problem.

Didn’t someone report significant vandalism in here in the past ?

Possibly the fact that the box is clearly marked that opening it will
alert the emergency services and there is CCTV covering the area might
help.

One of those reality TV doco series showed some arseholes
that appear to use that sort of thing as an incitement to
vandalise for the cameras etc when blotto.

And that approach would fix the problem I had too.

And the within 500m of the operator wouldn’t have to apply to those.

As the law stands in the UK, it would.

Sure, but that can obviously be changed for those.

Strictly, the rule is that the drone must stay within the operator's line
of sight, which is generally taken to be 500m horizontally and 400ft
vertically.

On 10/11/2015 12:37, soup wrote:
On 10/11/2015 10:14, Nightjar cpb wrote:
but anybody can follow the instructions from an AED.

Yup your significant other/parent is lying there not breathing and
covered in their own vomit. Of course anyone (hah) will be calm
enough to use a piece of medical equipment.

(IMHO) You cannot ask an acquaintance of the injured party to do
ANYTHING beyond the "keep pressure on here"/ "go direct the Ambulance
to here" sort of help. Yes some will 'keep their heads' and do
anything you say but most will just be a 'gibbering mess".


ANECDOTE :-
I was the first aider at work when a guest had a heart attack and I had
to perform CPR on him, I was flapping big style (brought him back a
couple of times and he was still alive when he was put in the
Ambulance) if it had been someone I knew, I doubt I could have followed
instructions on how to use fairly technical equipment.


AEDs are kept in public places - garden centres, shopping arcades and
even the middle of a high street, for example. There is a fairly good
chance that there will be at least one person around with the presence
of mind to grab it and anybody who thinks of that will be able to follow
the step by step instructions given verbally by the machine.

--
Colin Bignell

On 10/11/2015 18:16, Nightjar cpb wrote:
On 10/11/2015 10:14, Nightjar cpb wrote:
but anybody can follow the instructions from an AED.
There is a fairly good chance that there will be at least one person
around with the presence of mind to grab it and anybody who thinks of
that will be able to follow the step by step instructions given verbally
by the machine.

"at least one person" ‰* "anybody"

On 10/11/2015 11:15, Chris French wrote:
In message , "Nightjar
cpb" "insert my surname writes
On 09/11/2015 21:25, Syd Rumpo wrote:
On 09/11/2015 19:59, Nightjar cpb wrote:
On 09/11/2015 16:30, harry wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/y-rEI4bezWc


AEDs are an excellent idea snip

Not so sure, genuinely. If the ambulance is only a few minutes away,

The target is that first response should reach the victim within eight
minutes. A transport ambulance should arrive within 19 minutes. Not
all calls achieve those targets.

Indeed, our village is 20 mins drive from the nearest ambulance station,
- even blue lighting it I doubt they would do it in less than 15. Ok,
the ambulance might already be out somewhere, but that doesn't mean it
will be nearer.

why stop CPR while the AED takes measurements? This is valuable time
when blood could be circulating, albeit at a much reduced rate.

Part of the logic is that not everybody can do CPR, but anybody can
follow the instructions from an AED.


Yes, and the effectiveness of CPR is limited - it's not like the TV :-)
And even people who can do CPR, lots of them are probably like me and
somewhat rusty

De-fibrillation isn't like TV either - only a quarter of arrests are AED
'shockable' arrhythmias, so three out of four times you'd be wasting
valuable blood-pumping time. As you know, even with a second person
setting up the AED, there is a considerable measurement time during
which the patient can't be touched.

I think it's a genuine problem, and I can't find clear-cut statistics.

Cheers
--
Syd

On 10/11/2015 12:37, soup wrote:
On 10/11/2015 10:14, Nightjar cpb wrote:
but anybody can follow the instructions from an AED.

Yup your significant other/parent is lying there not breathing and
covered in their own vomit. Of course anyone (hah) will be calm
enough to use a piece of medical equipment.
Speaking from direct experience, in such a crisis it's surprising how
well a person can perform.

Bill

On 10/11/2015 21:34, Bill Wright wrote:
On 10/11/2015 12:37, soup wrote:
On 10/11/2015 10:14, Nightjar cpb wrote:
but anybody can follow the instructions from an AED.

Yup your significant other/parent is lying there not breathing and
covered in their own vomit. Of course anyone (hah) will be calm
enough to use a piece of medical equipment.
Speaking from direct experience, in such a crisis it's surprising how
well a person can perform.

Change that "a person" "to some people", the thing I was disputing was
this "ANYbody"

In message , Syd Rumpo
writes
On 10/11/2015 11:15, Chris French wrote:
In message , "Nightjar
cpb" "insert my surname writes
On 09/11/2015 21:25, Syd Rumpo wrote:
On 09/11/2015 19:59, Nightjar cpb wrote:
On 09/11/2015 16:30, harry wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/y-rEI4bezWc


AEDs are an excellent idea snip

Not so sure, genuinely. If the ambulance is only a few minutes away,

The target is that first response should reach the victim within eight
minutes. A transport ambulance should arrive within 19 minutes. Not
all calls achieve those targets.

Indeed, our village is 20 mins drive from the nearest ambulance station,
- even blue lighting it I doubt they would do it in less than 15. Ok,
the ambulance might already be out somewhere, but that doesn't mean it
will be nearer.

why stop CPR while the AED takes measurements? This is valuable time
when blood could be circulating, albeit at a much reduced rate.

Part of the logic is that not everybody can do CPR, but anybody can
follow the instructions from an AED.


Yes, and the effectiveness of CPR is limited - it's not like the TV :-)
And even people who can do CPR, lots of them are probably like me and
somewhat rusty

De-fibrillation isn't like TV either - only a quarter of arrests are
AED 'shockable' arrhythmias, so three out of four times you'd be
wasting valuable blood-pumping time. As you know, even with a second
person setting up the AED, there is a considerable measurement time
during which the patient can't be touched.

I think it's a genuine problem, and I can't find clear-cut statistics.

TBH, life to short to worry about everything, I'll trust that some one
somewhere has seen that there is a benefit.

The public AED in our village has a keypad lock on it, you can only
access it if you phone 999 and the emergency operator asks you to use it
and gives you the code
--
Chris French

On 10/11/2015 23:37, Chris French wrote:
In message , Syd Rumpo
writes
On 10/11/2015 11:15, Chris French wrote:
In message , "Nightjar
cpb" "insert my surname writes
On 09/11/2015 21:25, Syd Rumpo wrote:
On 09/11/2015 19:59, Nightjar cpb wrote:
On 09/11/2015 16:30, harry wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/y-rEI4bezWc


AEDs are an excellent idea snip

Not so sure, genuinely. If the ambulance is only a few minutes away,

The target is that first response should reach the victim within eight
minutes. A transport ambulance should arrive within 19 minutes. Not
all calls achieve those targets.

Indeed, our village is 20 mins drive from the nearest ambulance station,
- even blue lighting it I doubt they would do it in less than 15. Ok,
the ambulance might already be out somewhere, but that doesn't mean it
will be nearer.

why stop CPR while the AED takes measurements? This is valuable time
when blood could be circulating, albeit at a much reduced rate.

Part of the logic is that not everybody can do CPR, but anybody can
follow the instructions from an AED.


Yes, and the effectiveness of CPR is limited - it's not like the TV :-)
And even people who can do CPR, lots of them are probably like me and
somewhat rusty

De-fibrillation isn't like TV either - only a quarter of arrests are
AED 'shockable' arrhythmias, so three out of four times you'd be
wasting valuable blood-pumping time. As you know, even with a second
person setting up the AED, there is a considerable measurement time
during which the patient can't be touched.

I think it's a genuine problem, and I can't find clear-cut statistics.

TBH, life to short to worry about everything, I'll trust that some one
somewhere has seen that there is a benefit.

I'm confident I can do proper CPR, and have been trained in AED use as
well. If, as has been suggested, an AED is mostly of use where proper
CPR isn't available, and if an ambulance is only minutes away, then my
judgement may well be to continue CPR to keep the brain alive while the
experts come.

However, if there's an AED available there will be pressure to use this
perceived panacea and possible opprobrium if I don't. It seems the only
way to avoid problems for me is to use the AED, even if it would not be
the best interests of the patient.

Cheers
--
Syd

Syd Rumpo wrote:
On 10/11/2015 23:37, Chris French wrote:
In message , Syd Rumpo
writes
On 10/11/2015 11:15, Chris French wrote:
In message , "Nightjar
cpb" "insert my surname writes
On 09/11/2015 21:25, Syd Rumpo wrote:
On 09/11/2015 19:59, Nightjar cpb wrote:
On 09/11/2015 16:30, harry wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/y-rEI4bezWc


AEDs are an excellent idea snip

Not so sure, genuinely. If the ambulance is only a few minutes away,

The target is that first response should reach the victim within eight
minutes. A transport ambulance should arrive within 19 minutes. Not
all calls achieve those targets.

Indeed, our village is 20 mins drive from the nearest ambulance
station,
- even blue lighting it I doubt they would do it in less than 15. Ok,
the ambulance might already be out somewhere, but that doesn't mean it
will be nearer.

why stop CPR while the AED takes measurements? This is valuable time
when blood could be circulating, albeit at a much reduced rate.

Part of the logic is that not everybody can do CPR, but anybody can
follow the instructions from an AED.


Yes, and the effectiveness of CPR is limited - it's not like the TV :-)
And even people who can do CPR, lots of them are probably like me and
somewhat rusty

De-fibrillation isn't like TV either - only a quarter of arrests are
AED 'shockable' arrhythmias, so three out of four times you'd be
wasting valuable blood-pumping time. As you know, even with a second
person setting up the AED, there is a considerable measurement time
during which the patient can't be touched.

I think it's a genuine problem, and I can't find clear-cut statistics.

TBH, life to short to worry about everything, I'll trust that some one
somewhere has seen that there is a benefit.

I'm confident I can do proper CPR, and have been trained in AED use as
well. If, as has been suggested, an AED is mostly of use where proper
CPR isn't available, and if an ambulance is only minutes away, then my
judgement may well be to continue CPR to keep the brain alive while the
experts come.

However, if there's an AED available there will be pressure to use this
perceived panacea and possible opprobrium if I don't. It seems the only
way to avoid problems for me is to use the AED, even if it would not be
the best interests of the patient.

Cheers

Don't these things send info on body functions back to base even if
shock bit not required that can assist informing person at site what to do?

On 11/11/2015 12:28, F Murtz wrote:

snip

Don't these [AEDs] send info on body functions back to base even if
shock bit not required that can assist informing person at site what to do?

If we're talking about existing publicly available AEDs, no. They
announce something like, "No shock required, continue CPR".

Cheers
--
Syd

"Syd Rumpo" wrote in message
...
On 11/11/2015 12:28, F Murtz wrote:

snip

Don't these [AEDs] send info on body functions back to base even if
shock bit not required that can assist informing person at site what to
do?

If we're talking about existing publicly available AEDs, no. They
announce something like, "No shock required, continue CPR".

Which covers you: you already know that a shock will not help and may even
be contra-indicated, but to cover yourself you can go through the motions of
using the AED and drawing a witness's attention to the message as
explanation of why you are only doing CPR.

People like you are invaluable. I survived a heart attack and lengthy
cardiac arrest only because my wife (who was my girlfriend at the time) had
done a first aid course when she was in her teens and could remember enough
to keep me alive (with guidance from the 999 operator as regards rhythm and
placement of her hands) until the ambulance eventually arrived. Even the
ambulance crew didn't manage to get my heart beating: they worked on me
alternately for over an hour, administering all the adrenaline they had, and
only did a "scoop and run" trip to A&E as a last resort when a second
ambulance with replacement adrenaline didn't arrive. Fortunately A&E got my
heart beating of its own accord and I was rushed to a larger hospital for
specialised intensive care to cool my body temperature to help my organs
survive the trauma of low oxygen supply.

And I survived - there were a few panics along the way when the doctors
thought I was suffering kidney failure until they discovered that the urine
output tube had got kinked (!), and they were not optimistic about whether
I'd suffered brain damage. My wife said she went home one night expecting
the worst and came in the following morning to see me give her a big grin of
recognition. Mind you, I can't have been quite myself because the first
words I mouthed to her (I couldn't talk because of a tracheostomy) were
"marry me" ;-) It was scary to wake up in hospital knowing that there were
recent memories (eg where we'd been for a holiday the previous month) that
were completely gone, but subtle hints suddenly made my memories return and
I remembered everything.

On 10/11/2015 18:45, soup wrote:
On 10/11/2015 18:16, Nightjar cpb wrote:
On 10/11/2015 10:14, Nightjar cpb wrote:
but anybody can follow the instructions from an AED.
There is a fairly good chance that there will be at least one person
around with the presence of mind to grab it and anybody who thinks of
that will be able to follow the step by step instructions given verbally
by the machine.

"at least one person" ‰* "anybody"

Two different actions:

Get AED - at least one person

Use AED - anybody

If you don't believe that, you ought to see a demonstration of one. They
really are designed to be used by anybody, even by somebody who
shouldn't really be a first aider if they go into a flap when giving CPR.

--
Colin Bignell