"Adrian" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 08:54:38 -0700, spuorgelgoog wrote:

TBH there is not a lot to it. You should learn about the differences in
earthing types and then you would be more knowledgeable about earthing
than a 2nd year electrical apprentice.

WTF do they spend the first year learning???

How to turn up in the morning, and how Adam likes his coffee.

Few of them seem to get as far as the second year.


On Thursday the number of second years went from 3 to 2 and I cannot see it
staying long at 2.

The worst bunch we have ever had

--
Adam

"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news

You should charge extra for testing previous installations.


I do charge for the test.


--
Adam

"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 17:43:47 +0100, ARW
wrote:


It would be if I lost the NICIEC membership of the firm.

You don't need that. My neighbour has no accreditations and gets three
times the work he has time to do.


You do to work in schools and hospitals.

--
Adam

On Saturday, 29 August 2015 19:27:37 UTC+1, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:

I remember at work when our lab was rewired, every bench was fed from a
different phase and there were warnings not to connect equipment on one
bench (eg by RS-232, Ethernet, USB or other low-voltage data cable) to
equipment on another bench, which caused us horrendous problems.

That's a weird idea, you'd think they'd at least have each room on its own phase.

Although I can't see the problem. USB for example would have its ground the same as the appliances earth, which remains constant for all the phases.


Yes, I have never understood why people get so worked up about appliances
connected to multiple phases in close proximity or even connected to each
other. I can't think of a plausible single failure which would be made
more dangerous by two adjacent or connected appliances being on different
phases.

Nobody seems to worry about using uninterruptible power supplies, even
though (depending on the type) they may be delivering an output which
has a random phase relationship to the mains and which therefore could
have a hgher phase to phase voltage than a 3-phase supply.

John

relationship to the incoming

On 31/08/2015 07:35, ARW wrote:
"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 17:43:47 +0100, ARW
wrote:


It would be if I lost the NICIEC membership of the firm.

You don't need that. My neighbour has no accreditations and gets
three times the work he has time to do.


You do to work in schools and hospitals.

Industrial premises?

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 07:35:31 +0100, ARW wrote:

"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 17:43:47 +0100, ARW
wrote:


It would be if I lost the NICIEC membership of the firm.

You don't need that. My neighbour has no accreditations and gets three
times the work he has time to do.


You do to work in schools and hospitals.

Then don't, **** em. If they think that kids need to be safer in a school than the same kids in their own houses, they need 415V up their arse.

--
Ederacinism - sexual pleasure derived from the thought of tearing out one's sex organs by the roots.

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 12:40:31 +0100, wrote:

On Saturday, 29 August 2015 19:27:37 UTC+1, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:

I remember at work when our lab was rewired, every bench was fed from a
different phase and there were warnings not to connect equipment on one
bench (eg by RS-232, Ethernet, USB or other low-voltage data cable) to
equipment on another bench, which caused us horrendous problems.

That's a weird idea, you'd think they'd at least have each room on its own phase.

Although I can't see the problem. USB for example would have its ground the same as the appliances earth, which remains constant for all the phases.


Yes, I have never understood why people get so worked up about appliances
connected to multiple phases in close proximity or even connected to each
other. I can't think of a plausible single failure which would be made
more dangerous by two adjacent or connected appliances being on different
phases.

Nobody seems to worry about using uninterruptible power supplies, even
though (depending on the type) they may be delivering an output which
has a random phase relationship to the mains and which therefore could
have a hgher phase to phase voltage than a 3-phase supply.

John

relationship to the incoming

I have an American Power Conversion UPS. It gives out -110 0 +110V, where 0 is the earth, -110 is the neutral, and +110 is the live. I've always assumed it's because it's American, a British one would tie the neutral to the earth. The computer, monitors, printers, stereo, lighting, etc connected to it doesn't seem to care, but I would have thought some devices might expect neutral to be about 0.

--
I used to not get along with my mother-in-law, but over the last few
months, I've developed quite an attachment for her. It goes over her
head, and a strap comes down under her chin to keep her mouth shut.

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 07:33:04 +0100, ARW wrote:

"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news

You should charge extra for testing previous installations.


I do charge for the test.

It should not be compulsory. Your contract is to fit the shower. You should only be responsible for the work that you put into the house.

--
Keyboards used to be expensive and beer used to be cheap.
Now beer is expensive and keyboards are cheap.
Conclusion, it's still bad to spill beer on your keyboard.

"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 07:35:31 +0100, ARW
wrote:

"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 17:43:47 +0100, ARW
wrote:


It would be if I lost the NICIEC membership of the firm.

You don't need that. My neighbour has no accreditations and gets three
times the work he has time to do.


You do to work in schools and hospitals.

Then don't, **** em. If they think that kids need to be safer in a school
than the same kids in their own houses, they need 415V up their arse.

Peter Hucker on Jimmy Savile:
"If he had done it against their will, they would have come forwards
earlier. The fact that they didn't suggests either he did nothing at all,
or the children liked it".

On 29/08/2015 19:48, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 19:41:50 +0100, harry
wrote:

On Saturday, 29 August 2015 14:19:08 UTC+1, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 10:06:26 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 29/08/2015 01:17, wrote:
On Saturday, 29 August 2015 00:13:19 UTC+1, Tough Guy no. 1265
wrote:
My father has said he has a 415V sticker on the feed into his
meter box. From what he's told me there is the normal arrangement of
master fuse, meter, then into the house to the consumer unit. The
house was built in 1985ish and is detached. I've never seen inside
the meterbox myself, only the consumer unit, which looked like a
normal run of the mill row of circuit breakers with one master at the
end, 100A. If there were three phases in the meterbox I'd expect his
description to include a lot more. Now the previous owner did have
an ironwork hobby with "high powered equipment", but he was a very
frugal sort and I doubt he would have got three phases installed if
he didn't absolutely have to - mind you I believe he was the first
owner of the house and designed it himself, so maybe it's just as
cheap to get three phases when building the property? The reason
this has come up is they've just had a 10kW electric shower fitted
(used to run from the hot water tank, but that one
wa
s
old and leaky) and are considering replacing their ageing oil
boiler with an electric one, which the electrician fitting the shower
warned would require a relay to switch off the boiler so it didn't
run at the same time as the shower as he'd run out of juice. When he
saw 415V he was wondering if he infact had more phases available.

clear piccy wanted


NT


Ignore BM, this is the right answer. You could well be right, there
might or might not be 3 phase available. If the current electrician
cannot advise, then you need someone who works on (small) industrial
sites. Sounds like perhaps the 3 phase meter has been taken out and
replaced with a single phase one.

If he (or I but I'm not up there) really wanted to know, it's easy
enough to peek around and use a multimeter. But at the moment it's
just a matter of interest for a possible future electric boiler
installation. I was just wondering if houses ever had more than one
phase installed or if you had to ask for it.

Some houses were supplied with three phases if there was an abnormally
high load or a workshop attached with maybe three phase motors or
welders.
In some cases if there were electric storage heaters. But his was for
quite big houses.

The one previous owner did have an ironwork hobby with large equipment
in the double garage with adjoining workshop.

But quite unusual.
You need to see if there are four wires entering the premises or two.
The cutout will have three fuses if it is a three phase supply.

I'm not there, but I was told what it looked like. There are no extra
fuses or evidence of where they used to be. There is only one cable
coming into the meter box through one hockey stick, and it's the same
width as my single phase one. This leads to the master fuse, then two
wires go through the meter from that, and an earth straight into the
house. If there used to be three phases, it's been very well tidied up.

I think in a roundabout way you have answered your own question.

What you have described in your last paragraph seems to be an ordinary
everyday single phase supply.

You will only know for sure either when you see it yourself or more
likely if your relative enquires for 'load acceptance' for an electric
boiler or similar connection to the DNS (Distribution Network Supplier)
and they check it out.

The 415v sticker could be a remnant from a previous 3 phase supply
installation.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On 29/08/2015 16:18, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 16:14:24 +0100, Bob Minchin
wrote:

Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:

I don't think there are empty fuse carriers lying about, my father would
have said something.
Well in that case, changing to 3 phase will likely be expensive and not
necessarily based on actual cost from what I've heard others mention.

If the feed wire coming into his fusebox really is 415V, then a second
phase is just sat there. A second fuse holder and another meter won't
cost much will it?

If the supply cable is alraedy 3 phase and nuetral and still connected
as such to the street cable, the cost would negligible as the extra fuse
and meter would be provided by the DNS.

If the DNS deems a 3 phase supply to be required for the installed
capacity in a property they will weigh the cost of any work against the
revenue stream from that installation .

Meter cost are normally recovered through the tariff daily standing
charge by the ESCO, the customers chosen electricity supply provider,
which is different from the DNS (the Distribution Network Supplier)

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

"Ash Burton" wrote in message
...
On 29/08/2015 16:18, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 16:14:24 +0100, Bob Minchin
wrote:

Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:

I don't think there are empty fuse carriers lying about, my father
would
have said something.
Well in that case, changing to 3 phase will likely be expensive and not
necessarily based on actual cost from what I've heard others mention.

If the feed wire coming into his fusebox really is 415V, then a second
phase is just sat there. A second fuse holder and another meter won't
cost much will it?

If the supply cable is alraedy 3 phase and nuetral and still connected as
such to the street cable, the cost would negligible as the extra fuse and
meter would be provided by the DNS.

If the DNS deems a 3 phase supply to be required for the installed
capacity in a property they will weigh the cost of any work against the
revenue stream from that installation .

Meter cost are normally recovered through the tariff daily standing charge
by the ESCO, the customers chosen electricity supply provider, which is
different from the DNS (the Distribution Network Supplier)

why have you replied to a troll and a complete prick?
be aware that phuckerprick will masturbate over your reply.
the unemployed phuckerprick, has no woman, no money, no life, a dirty home,
no hot running water, he has cat fleas and stinks.

In message , Mike Tomlinson
writes
En el artículo , NY
escribió:

Is three-phase (or at least two-phase or split-phase) wiring common in
domestic UK environments?

One of my properties, an old Victorian semi converted into two flats,
has a 3-phase supply coming into the hall cupboard in the downstairs
flat. One phase is used for downstairs and another for upstairs. The
third is unused.

To answer NY, no 3 phase isn't common in domestic installations.

Our house (Victorian, biggish, but not unusually so) has a 3 phase
supply, though we are only connected to one of them.

Each phase is terminated with a separate terminal block, though this was
originally an overhead supply, with four separate incoming cables. Since
replaced with an single underground cable - though terminated
externally, so as to avoid the mess of bringing it indoors
--
Chris French

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 18:41:00 +0100, Ash Burton wrote:

On 29/08/2015 19:48, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 19:41:50 +0100, harry
wrote:

On Saturday, 29 August 2015 14:19:08 UTC+1, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 10:06:26 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 29/08/2015 01:17, wrote:
On Saturday, 29 August 2015 00:13:19 UTC+1, Tough Guy no. 1265
wrote:
My father has said he has a 415V sticker on the feed into his
meter box. From what he's told me there is the normal arrangement of
master fuse, meter, then into the house to the consumer unit. The
house was built in 1985ish and is detached. I've never seen inside
the meterbox myself, only the consumer unit, which looked like a
normal run of the mill row of circuit breakers with one master at the
end, 100A. If there were three phases in the meterbox I'd expect his
description to include a lot more. Now the previous owner did have
an ironwork hobby with "high powered equipment", but he was a very
frugal sort and I doubt he would have got three phases installed if
he didn't absolutely have to - mind you I believe he was the first
owner of the house and designed it himself, so maybe it's just as
cheap to get three phases when building the property? The reason
this has come up is they've just had a 10kW electric shower fitted
(used to run from the hot water tank, but that one
wa
s
old and leaky) and are considering replacing their ageing oil
boiler with an electric one, which the electrician fitting the shower
warned would require a relay to switch off the boiler so it didn't
run at the same time as the shower as he'd run out of juice. When he
saw 415V he was wondering if he infact had more phases available.

clear piccy wanted


NT


Ignore BM, this is the right answer. You could well be right, there
might or might not be 3 phase available. If the current electrician
cannot advise, then you need someone who works on (small) industrial
sites. Sounds like perhaps the 3 phase meter has been taken out and
replaced with a single phase one.

If he (or I but I'm not up there) really wanted to know, it's easy
enough to peek around and use a multimeter. But at the moment it's
just a matter of interest for a possible future electric boiler
installation. I was just wondering if houses ever had more than one
phase installed or if you had to ask for it.

Some houses were supplied with three phases if there was an abnormally
high load or a workshop attached with maybe three phase motors or
welders.
In some cases if there were electric storage heaters. But his was for
quite big houses.

The one previous owner did have an ironwork hobby with large equipment
in the double garage with adjoining workshop.

But quite unusual.
You need to see if there are four wires entering the premises or two.
The cutout will have three fuses if it is a three phase supply.

I'm not there, but I was told what it looked like. There are no extra
fuses or evidence of where they used to be. There is only one cable
coming into the meter box through one hockey stick, and it's the same
width as my single phase one. This leads to the master fuse, then two
wires go through the meter from that, and an earth straight into the
house. If there used to be three phases, it's been very well tidied up.

I think in a roundabout way you have answered your own question.

What you have described in your last paragraph seems to be an ordinary
everyday single phase supply.

You will only know for sure either when you see it yourself or more
likely if your relative enquires for 'load acceptance' for an electric
boiler or similar connection to the DNS (Distribution Network Supplier)
and they check it out.

The 415v sticker could be a remnant from a previous 3 phase supply
installation.

The sticker on the fuse I can understand, mine has it too. But he said there was a sticker on the cable, which suggests he must have a 3 (or 2) phase cable already there, substantially reducing the cost of giving him a 2nd phase.

I don't see that he would find out, would the installer not just assume he has no extra phases available and fit the switch to shut the boiler off while the shower is operating?

--
The Post Office just recalled their latest stamps. They had pictures
of lawyers on them, and people couldn't figure out which side to spit
on.

En el artículo , Chris French
escribió:

Our house (Victorian, biggish, but not unusually so) has a 3 phase
supply, though we are only connected to one of them.

Each phase is terminated with a separate terminal block, though this was
originally an overhead supply, with four separate incoming cables. Since
replaced with an single underground cable - though terminated
externally, so as to avoid the mess of bringing it indoors

The supply here is underground, terminated in a modern headend with
three 100A fuses. I've just looked more closely and the incoming cables
are the original lead-sheathed (only two of them, so this is not
actually a 3-phase supply) which has been reterminated, extended to
reach the new headend and the joints sleeved with heatshrink lined with
adhesive.

I can take pics for the wiki if anyone is interested. Not going to
fiddle too much as those old lead cables are delicate. The local 400
year old pub had a bad fire after their lead supply cable developed a
fault.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Bunny says: Windows 10? Nein danke!
(")_(")

"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 07:33:04 +0100, ARW
wrote:

"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news

You should charge extra for testing previous installations.


I do charge for the test.

It should not be compulsory. Your contract is to fit the shower. You
should only be responsible for the work that you put into the house.

But an electric shower in a place that has a defective electrical
installation
is obviously a much higher risk of killing someone in that shower, stupid.

All these fuses will say 415V and are generally 100A, although sometimes less. This doesn't mean it's three-phase, unless there are three of them

The 415V is just the voltage the component is rated to €” fuses operate on Amps alone, the voltage is not relevant. A 100A fuse will blow just beyond 100A whether it's at 12V or 1200V.

The same way appliance mains cables are rated to 300V or even 600V; it just refers to the insulation resistance or safety factor of the cable.

On Tue, 24 Apr 2018 12:38:02 +0100, wrote:

All these fuses will say 415V and are generally 100A, although sometimes less. This doesn't mean it's three-phase, unless there are three of them

The 415V is just the voltage the component is rated to €” fuses operate on Amps alone, the voltage is not relevant. A 100A fuse will blow just beyond 100A whether it's at 12V or 1200V.

The same way appliance mains cables are rated to 300V or even 600V; it just refers to the insulation resistance or safety factor of the cable.

I guess it's so they can be used in 3 phase setups. A short from L1 to L2 could put 415V across one of the fuses.

--
During the weekly Lamaze class, the instructor emphasized the importance of exercise, hinting strongly that husbands need to get out and start walking with their wives.
From the back of the room one expectant father inquired, "Would it be okay if she carries a bag of golf clubs while she walks?"

wrote:
All these fuses will say 415V and are generally 100A, although sometimes
less. This doesn't mean it's three-phase, unless there are three of them

The 415V is just the voltage the component is rated to €” fuses operate on
Amps alone, the voltage is not relevant. A 100A fuse will blow just
beyond 100A whether it's at 12V or 1200V.

The same way appliance mains cables are rated to 300V or even 600V; it
just refers to the insulation resistance or safety factor of the cable.


Thank God. Ive been waiting three years for someone to answer. Oh, hang
on, they did three years ago.

Try this link...

http://bfy.tw/Ho7B

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Tue, 24 Apr 2018 14:36:48 +0100, Tim+ wrote:

wrote:
All these fuses will say 415V and are generally 100A, although sometimes
less. This doesn't mean it's three-phase, unless there are three of them

The 415V is just the voltage the component is rated to €” fuses operate on
Amps alone, the voltage is not relevant. A 100A fuse will blow just
beyond 100A whether it's at 12V or 1200V.

The same way appliance mains cables are rated to 300V or even 600V; it
just refers to the insulation resistance or safety factor of the cable.


Thank God. Ive been waiting three years for someone to answer.. Oh, hang
on, they did three years ago.

Try this link...

http://bfy.tw/Ho7B

Why do people like you get so upset about dates? There was no best before date printed on my post, people are free to answer it whenever they wish. Go get treatment for your OCD.

--
Take notice: when this sign is under water, this road is impassable.

On Tue, 24 Apr 2018 14:44:28 +0100, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

A 100A fuse will blow just beyond 100A whether it's at 12V or
1200V.

Thank God. I ve been waiting three years for someone to answer..


Why do people like you get so upset about dates?

'cause it shows ignorance of the platform they are using to access
USENET.

And in this case part of the late answer is wrong. Unless "just
beyoud 100A" has been redefined to mean 2 or 3 times the 100A rated
capacity and even then it'll take a while to blow (seconds to
minutes).

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Tue, 24 Apr 2018 20:26:27 +0100 (BST), Dave Liquorice, another mentally
handicapped, troll-feeding retard, blabbered:

'cause it shows ignorance of the platform they are using to access
USENET.

And in this case part of the late answer is wrong. Unless "just
beyoud 100A" has been redefined to mean 2 or 3 times the 100A rated
capacity and even then it'll take a while to blow (seconds to
minutes).

Troll-feeding retard! tsk

On Tue, 24 Apr 2018 20:26:27 +0100, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Tue, 24 Apr 2018 14:44:28 +0100, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

A 100A fuse will blow just beyond 100A whether it's at 12V or
1200V.

Thank God. I ve been waiting three years for someone to answer..

Why do people like you get so upset about dates?

'cause it shows ignorance of the platform they are using to access
USENET.

Invalid assumption. Maybe they just don't mind answering older questions.

And in this case part of the late answer is wrong. Unless "just
beyoud 100A" has been redefined to mean 2 or 3 times the 100A rated
capacity and even then it'll take a while to blow (seconds to
minutes).

They are pretty **** actually. I had a kettle running at 2400W (10 amps) on a 5A plug fuse which lasted for 3 months of using it several times a day before it blew. And a colleague had 2 tumble driers and 2 washing machines running on a 4 way power strip, which melted the strip into a soggy mess and didn't blow the 13A fuse. Makes you wonder why we have them at all. Surely they can design them to take triple load for 5 seconds (to allow for motors starting), then blow if it's over the rating after that? Simply the temperature of the wire should reach a certain point? But all we seem to have is "fast blow" which won't allow for motors and "slow blow" which is in plug fuses and doesn't blow other than a dead short.

--
Ireland's worst air disaster occurred early this morning when a small two-seater Cessna plane crashed into a cemetery. Irish search and rescue workers have recovered 2826 bodies so far and expect that number to climb as digging continues into the night.

On Tue, 24 Apr 2018 21:57:46 +0100, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

They are pretty **** actually. I had a kettle running at 2400W (10
amps) on a 5A plug fuse which lasted for 3 months of using it several
times a day before it blew. And a colleague had 2 tumble driers and 2
washing machines running on a 4 way power strip, which melted the strip
into a soggy mess and didn't blow the 13A fuse. Makes you wonder why we
have them at all. Surely they can design them to take triple load for 5
seconds (to allow for motors starting), then blow if it's over the
rating after that? Simply the temperature of the wire should reach a
certain point? But all we seem to have is "fast blow" which won't allow
for motors and "slow blow" which is in plug fuses and doesn't blow other
than a dead short.


I'm inclined to agree. Hardly anyone other than sparkies is aware that
any given mains fuse will pass a great deal more than its rated value for
a surprisingly long time during which much melting or even a fire could
possibly start. Such fuses are great for protecting against dead shorts,
but not much beyond that.



--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

On 24/04/2018 20:26, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 24 Apr 2018 14:44:28 +0100, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

A 100A fuse will blow just beyond 100A whether it's at 12V or
1200V.

Thank God. I ve been waiting three years for someone to answer..


Why do people like you get so upset about dates?

'cause it shows ignorance of the platform they are using to access
USENET.

And in this case part of the late answer is wrong. Unless "just
beyoud 100A" has been redefined to mean 2 or 3 times the 100A rated
capacity and even then it'll take a while to blow (seconds to
minutes).

Yup, the curve for normal incomer fuses is shown he

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/0/06/Curve-BS1361.png

A 100A one will carry 150A for a *long* time. Even 630A will take 5 secs
to blow it.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 00:55:04 +0100, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Tue, 24 Apr 2018 21:57:46 +0100, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

They are pretty **** actually. I had a kettle running at 2400W (10
amps) on a 5A plug fuse which lasted for 3 months of using it several
times a day before it blew. And a colleague had 2 tumble driers and 2
washing machines running on a 4 way power strip, which melted the strip
into a soggy mess and didn't blow the 13A fuse. Makes you wonder why we
have them at all. Surely they can design them to take triple load for 5
seconds (to allow for motors starting), then blow if it's over the
rating after that? Simply the temperature of the wire should reach a
certain point? But all we seem to have is "fast blow" which won't allow
for motors and "slow blow" which is in plug fuses and doesn't blow other
than a dead short.

I'm inclined to agree. Hardly anyone other than sparkies is aware that
any given mains fuse will pass a great deal more than its rated value for
a surprisingly long time during which much melting or even a fire could
possibly start. Such fuses are great for protecting against dead shorts,
but not much beyond that.

You can buy fast blow fuses which are very good at protecting, but are no good for motors starting. Surely a compromise could have been made?

Fuses don't protect people plugging too much in (unless you nicely overrate the cable - my garage has a 30A cable with a 15A fuse, and the fuse will blow before the cable melts), but they do stop things happening like dodgy halogen spotlight bulbs shorting out. However they don't blow quick enough to protect transistors in PIR light switches, which is why I fitted circuit breakers for the lighting (that is until I put the lighting circuit on a UPS to make the LED bulbs last longer - the mains supply is **** and full of surges, brownouts, and terribly low and high voltages.)

--
Here are some actual maintenance complaints/problems, generally known as squawks, recently submitted by QANTAS Pilots to maintenance engineers. After attending to the squawks, maintenance crews are required to log the details of the action taken to solve the pilots' squawks.

Problem - Left inside main tyre almost needs replacement.
Solution - Almost replaced left inside main tyre.

Problem - Test flight OK, except autoland very rough.
Solution - Autoland not installed on this aircraft.

Problem - No. 2 propeller seeping prop fluid.
Solution - No. 2 propeller seepage normal. Nos. 1, 3 and 4 propellers lack normal seepage.

Problem - Something loose in cockpit.
Solution - Something tightened in cockpit.

Problem - Dead bugs on windshield.
Solution - Live bugs on backorder.

Problem - Autopilot in altitude-hold mode produces a 200-fpm descent.
Solution - Cannot reproduce problem on ground.

Problem - Evidence of leak on right main landing gear.
Solution - Evidence removed.

Problem - DME volume unbelievably loud.
Solution - Volume set to more believable level.

Problem - Friction locks cause throttle levers to stick.
Solution - That's what they are there for!

Problem - IFF inoperative.
Solution - IFF always inoperative in OFF mode.

Problem - Suspected crack in windscreen.
Solution - Suspect you're right.

Problem - Number 3 engine missing.
Solution - Engine found on right wing after brief search.

Problem - Aircraft handles funny.
Solution - Aircraft warned to "Straighten up, Fly Right, and Be Serious."

Problem - Target radar hums.
Solution - Reprogrammed target radar with words.

Problem - Mouse in cockpit.
Solution - Cat installed.

Defect: Seat cushion in 13F smells rotten.
Action: Fresh seat cushion on order.

Defect: Turn & slip indicator ball stuck in center during turns.
Action: Congratulations. You just made your first coordinated turn!

Defect: Whining sound heard on engine shutdown.
Action: Pilot removed from aircraft.

Defect: Pilot's clock inoperative.
Action: Wound clock.

Defect: Autopilot tends to drop a wing when fuel imbalance reaches 500 pounds.
Action: Flight manual limits maximum fuel imbalance to 300 pounds.

Defect: #2 ADF needle runs wild.
Action: Caught and tamed #2 ADF needle.

Defect: Unfamiliar noise coming from #2 engine.
Action: Engine run for four hours. Noise now familiar.

Defect: Noise coming from #2 engine. Sounds like man with little hammer.
Action: Took little hammer away from man in #2 engine.

Defect: Whining noise coming from #2 engine compartment.
Action: Returned little hammer to man in #2 engine.

Defect: Flight attendant cold at altitude.
Action: Ground checks OK.

Defect: 3 roaches in cabin.
Action: 1 roach killed, 1 wounded, 1 got away.

Defect: Weather radar went ape!
Action: Opened radar, let out ape, cleaned up mess!

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 01:00:02 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 24/04/2018 20:26, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 24 Apr 2018 14:44:28 +0100, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

A 100A fuse will blow just beyond 100A whether it's at 12V or
1200V.

Thank God. I ve been waiting three years for someone to answer...


Why do people like you get so upset about dates?

'cause it shows ignorance of the platform they are using to access
USENET.

And in this case part of the late answer is wrong. Unless "just
beyoud 100A" has been redefined to mean 2 or 3 times the 100A rated
capacity and even then it'll take a while to blow (seconds to
minutes).

Yup, the curve for normal incomer fuses is shown he

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/0/06/Curve-BS1361.png

A 100A one will carry 150A for a *long* time. Even 630A will take 5 secs
to blow it.

Makes you wonder what ****wit invented fusewire.

--
Can fat people go skinny-dipping?

On Tue, 24 Apr 2018 23:55:04 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Dumb, another
troll-feeding retard, driveled:


I'm inclined to agree.

I'm inclined to believe that you are another troll-feeding idiot!

In article ,
Cursitor Doom wrote:
I'm inclined to agree. Hardly anyone other than sparkies is aware that
any given mains fuse will pass a great deal more than its rated value
for a surprisingly long time during which much melting or even a fire
could possibly start. Such fuses are great for protecting against dead
shorts, but not much beyond that.

Err, the purpose of that fuse is to protect the wiring from melting and
causing a fire. If it doesn't, it isn't correctly specified.

--
*Why is "abbreviated" such a long word?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
Makes you wonder what ****wit invented fusewire.

Or even those who think all fusewire is the same.

--
*I get enough exercise just pushing my luck.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 10:15:35 +0100, Dave Blowman (News), the notorious
troll-feeding idiot, driveled again:


Makes you wonder what ****wit invented fusewire.

Or even those who think all fusewire is the same.

Or those ****wits that have to take absolutely every single idiot bait that
the abnormal attention-starved Scottish sow sets out for them! tsk

On 25/04/2018 00:55, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Tue, 24 Apr 2018 21:57:46 +0100, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

They are pretty **** actually. I had a kettle running at 2400W (10
amps) on a 5A plug fuse which lasted for 3 months of using it several
times a day before it blew. And a colleague had 2 tumble driers and 2
washing machines running on a 4 way power strip, which melted the strip
into a soggy mess and didn't blow the 13A fuse. Makes you wonder why we
have them at all. Surely they can design them to take triple load for 5
seconds (to allow for motors starting), then blow if it's over the
rating after that? Simply the temperature of the wire should reach a
certain point? But all we seem to have is "fast blow" which won't allow
for motors and "slow blow" which is in plug fuses and doesn't blow other
than a dead short.


I'm inclined to agree. Hardly anyone other than sparkies is aware that
any given mains fuse will pass a great deal more than its rated value for
a surprisingly long time

That bit is true, however...

during which much melting or even a fire could
possibly start.

That bit ought not be if the right fuse is used.

One of the absolute requirements for most fuses is that they offer
adequate fault protection - and that implies protection of the wiring
from melting and catching fire.

Such fuses are great for protecting against dead shorts,
but not much beyond that.

That's definitely not true. Its perfectly acceptable and normal to use a
fuse for overload protection. Its also acceptable (and in fact
desirable) that they will pass an overload current for a period of time,
since they should reflect the thermal performance of the circuit as a
whole. This is why the actual current level itself is less important
than the "bigger picture" combination of current combined with duration.

(There may be cases where you don't require overload protection at a
fuse however. Say for example at the origin of a dedicated circuit
feeding a hard wired bit of equipment. Then the fuse only need offer
fault current protection).


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 10:14:13 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Cursitor Doom wrote:
I'm inclined to agree. Hardly anyone other than sparkies is aware that
any given mains fuse will pass a great deal more than its rated value
for a surprisingly long time during which much melting or even a fire
could possibly start. Such fuses are great for protecting against dead
shorts, but not much beyond that.

Err, the purpose of that fuse is to protect the wiring from melting and
causing a fire. If it doesn't, it isn't correctly specified.

+1

--
My wife was hinting about what she wanted for our upcoming anniversary.
She said, "I want something shiny that goes from 0 to 150 in about 3 seconds"
I bought her a bathroom scale.
And then the fight started......

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 10:15:35 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
Makes you wonder what ****wit invented fusewire.

Or even those who think all fusewire is the same.

The ones in plug fuses suck. You can melt a 4 way power strip before the 13A fuse blows. Just draw a steady 26A, like two heaters or tumble driers. Admittedly it didn't catch fire, but it could have set fire to something touching it.

--
My wife was hinting about what she wanted for our upcoming anniversary.
She said, "I want something shiny that goes from 0 to 150 in about 3 seconds"
I bought her a bathroom scale.
And then the fight started......