On Thu, 07 May 2015 09:16:44 +0100, Nightjar wrote:

On 07/05/2015 07:46, Brian-Gaff wrote:
Well says it all. I have a little door phone and after about 6 months trying
to keep the call/bell button has been abandoned in favour of an old bell
push I found in a drawer with a Woolworths price tag on it. This is wired so
it shorts the intercom cable as the original failed one which consisted of
some tacky little push switch on a pcb glued in with heat glue. the Woolies
on is your basic two brass bits sprung apart and a plastic button to short
them together.
Tis worked fine till one of two things happened. Firstly, its not
waterproof and when its really wet, it shorts enough to make the bell sound
or make silly whining noises leaving the amp running with clicks and groans.
Or, the local cold caller or whoever who seems to have been studying finger
karate, squishes it so much the prongs stay shorted out when the finger is
removed.
Most bell pushes seem to still be of this type. I had no idea of the
stringent needs of a bell push in this environment before, so wondered if
anyone else had any bright ideas?
Brian


I think it is an inherent property of bell pushes that the fail quickly.
I once built one using an industrial vandal resistant and water proof
push switch, which worked fine for years on machinery. As a bell push,
inside a porch, it stopped working after about two years.

This is tempting fate I'm sure, but I've had an Aldidl wireless bell for
several years now and the push is on a SW-facing door.
I did put a bit of Plumber's Mait around it originally, so that might have
helped.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

So we need gold plated wiping contacts inside a hermetically sealed butyl
flexible pod which is then placed inside a normal looking push.
Or even more overkill I guess, a long bit of string to pull which operates
a switch inside the house instead!

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Nightjar.me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 07/05/2015 07:46, Brian-Gaff wrote:
Well says it all. I have a little door phone and after about 6 months
trying
to keep the call/bell button has been abandoned in favour of an old bell
push I found in a drawer with a Woolworths price tag on it. This is
wired so
it shorts the intercom cable as the original failed one which consisted
of
some tacky little push switch on a pcb glued in with heat glue. the
Woolies
on is your basic two brass bits sprung apart and a plastic button to
short
them together.
Tis worked fine till one of two things happened. Firstly, its not
waterproof and when its really wet, it shorts enough to make the bell
sound
or make silly whining noises leaving the amp running with clicks and
groans.
Or, the local cold caller or whoever who seems to have been studying
finger
karate, squishes it so much the prongs stay shorted out when the finger
is
removed.
Most bell pushes seem to still be of this type. I had no idea of the
stringent needs of a bell push in this environment before, so wondered
if
anyone else had any bright ideas?
Brian


I think it is an inherent property of bell pushes that the fail quickly.
I once built one using an industrial vandal resistant and water proof
push switch, which worked fine for years on machinery. As a bell push,
inside a porch, it stopped working after about two years.

I just don't believe that its not possible to do one that will last for
decades.

Certainly the built in one in the intercom speaker/microphone box was
basically a little push switch f the kind found in old fashioned tape
recorders for record, mounted on a pcb which wads heat glued in the two
runners about half an inch long. The first failure mode was the pcb came
loose. This was duly araldited in, at which point the switch over traveled
and wedged on permanently.
It was then I migrated to the bell push with brass spring strips inside
that let the water in and it started to go green.


Actually, I have a nice bulk eraser here which is of no use with a very big
push button on, it. it will need perhaps a die cast box to put it in, and
see if that survives, but it would not win any prises for design elegance.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Bod" wrote in message
...

Most bell pushes seem to still be of this type. I had no idea of the
stringent needs of a bell push in this environment before, so
wondered if
anyone else had any bright ideas?
Brian


I think it is an inherent property of bell pushes that the fail
quickly. I once built one using an industrial vandal resistant and
water proof push switch, which worked fine for years on machinery. As
a bell push, inside a porch, it stopped working after about two years.

I just don't believe that its not possible to do one that will last for
decades.

I remember that bell pushes used to be very reliable and rarely went
wrong.
Todays bell pushes are probably designed with built in obsolescence.

?Decades as long as they are in a porch no out on a front rain lashed front
door, and there are no finger karate experts about.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Bod" wrote in message
...

Most bell pushes seem to still be of this type. I had no idea of the
stringent needs of a bell push in this environment before, so
wondered if
anyone else had any bright ideas?
Brian


I think it is an inherent property of bell pushes that the fail
quickly. I once built one using an industrial vandal resistant and
water proof push switch, which worked fine for years on machinery. As
a bell push, inside a porch, it stopped working after about two years.

I just don't believe that its not possible to do one that will last for
decades.

I remember that bell pushes used to be very reliable and rarely went
wrong.

Yes.

Todays bell pushes are probably designed with built in obsolescence.

Nope. Its perfectly possible to buy ones that last for decades.

Well at least I do not want an illuminated one. I was also thinking of the
reed switches in a little glass tube and a magnet on the button. that ought
to be waterproof and robust assuming one could fashioned the bits and mount
them firm enough. Its not as if its taking huge currents like bells or
chimes, it just has to change a mode in the intercom to bell mode after all.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Bod" wrote in message
...

Yes, but the standard plasticky ones *all* seem to be not waterproof.

Sure, but this is a DIY group.

I built the entire house from scratch on a bare block of land.

A bell push is quite a bit easier than that.

I know, I've probably had about 6 or 7 go wrong in the last 10 years
or so. We've even got a canopy over our door.

Then you should make one yourself.

I could do, but I want an illuminated one. They only cost a few quid so
not worth the bother.

Sounds a bit like overkill to me. What would be the point of having an
actual phone? it would need to be a speaker phone, nobody would be daft
enough to put a handset exposed to the elements and vandals.
The locals a bit the wose for alcohol tend to use my garden globe lights as
footballs sometimes.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2015-05-07, Bob Eager wrote:

What I'd like is a reasonably priced external door phone. One that is a
'normally wired' phone , but will dial a preset number when the button is
pressed, and has a grille for mic and speaker (i.e. just a box). They all
seem to be really stupid prices.

Sounds like an ideal application for a RasPi.


--
Today is Boomtime, the 54th day of Discord in the YOLD 3181
I don't have an attitude problem.
If you have a problem with my attitude, that's your problem.

Its way beyond wd 40, its actually squashed and I suspect the brass will
break if I have to reset it many more times.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"harryagain" wrote in message
...

"Brian-Gaff" wrote in message
...
Well says it all. I have a little door phone and after about 6 months
trying to keep the call/bell button has been abandoned in favour of an
old bell push I found in a drawer with a Woolworths price tag on it. This
is wired so it shorts the intercom cable as the original failed one which
consisted of some tacky little push switch on a pcb glued in with heat
glue. the Woolies on is your basic two brass bits sprung apart and a
plastic button to short them together.
Tis worked fine till one of two things happened. Firstly, its not
waterproof and when its really wet, it shorts enough to make the bell
sound or make silly whining noises leaving the amp running with clicks
and groans. Or, the local cold caller or whoever who seems to have been
studying finger karate, squishes it so much the prongs stay shorted out
when the finger is removed.
Most bell pushes seem to still be of this type. I had no idea of the
stringent needs of a bell push in this environment before, so wondered
if anyone else had any bright ideas?

A bit of WD40 fixes most problems here.
You can buy weather proof momentary switches in screwfix ISTR

Brian-Gaff wrote

So we need gold plated wiping contacts inside a hermetically sealed butyl
flexible pod which is then placed inside a normal looking push.

No, just a full sealed hall effect switch and a magnet in whatever you like
that moves.

Or even more overkill I guess, a long bit of string to pull which operates
a switch inside the house instead!

Main problem with that approach is that there are likely
to be quite a few who have never come across a string
pull system and don’t have a clue that they are meant
to pull the string now.

Rod Speed wrote
"Nightjar.me.uk" "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 07/05/2015 07:46, Brian-Gaff wrote:
Well says it all. I have a little door phone and after about 6 months
trying
to keep the call/bell button has been abandoned in favour of an old
bell
push I found in a drawer with a Woolworths price tag on it. This is
wired so
it shorts the intercom cable as the original failed one which consisted
of
some tacky little push switch on a pcb glued in with heat glue. the
Woolies
on is your basic two brass bits sprung apart and a plastic button to
short
them together.
Tis worked fine till one of two things happened. Firstly, its not
waterproof and when its really wet, it shorts enough to make the bell
sound
or make silly whining noises leaving the amp running with clicks and
groans.
Or, the local cold caller or whoever who seems to have been studying
finger
karate, squishes it so much the prongs stay shorted out when the
finger is
removed.
Most bell pushes seem to still be of this type. I had no idea of the
stringent needs of a bell push in this environment before, so wondered
if
anyone else had any bright ideas?
Brian


I think it is an inherent property of bell pushes that the fail quickly.
I once built one using an industrial vandal resistant and water proof
push switch, which worked fine for years on machinery. As a bell push,
inside a porch, it stopped working after about two years.

I just don't believe that its not possible to do one that will last for
decades.

Brian-Gaff wrote

Decades as long as they are in a porch no out on a front rain lashed front
door, and there are no finger karate experts about.

Decades even when mounted on a rain lashed wall with no porch
at all and which can survive anything any finger can do it it.

This is a DIY group after all.

Rod Speed wrote
"Bod" wrote in message
...

Most bell pushes seem to still be of this type. I had no idea of
the
stringent needs of a bell push in this environment before, so
wondered if
anyone else had any bright ideas?
Brian


I think it is an inherent property of bell pushes that the fail
quickly. I once built one using an industrial vandal resistant and
water proof push switch, which worked fine for years on machinery. As
a bell push, inside a porch, it stopped working after about two years.

I just don't believe that its not possible to do one that will last for
decades.

I remember that bell pushes used to be very reliable and rarely went
wrong.

Yes.

Todays bell pushes are probably designed with built in obsolescence.

Nope. Its perfectly possible to buy ones that last for decades.

Brian-Gaff wrote

Well at least I do not want an illuminated one. I was also thinking of the
reed switches in a little glass tube and a magnet on the button.

I'd use a hall effect sensor myself, less critical with the effect of the
magnet.

that ought to be waterproof and robust

Yes, you can make the mechanicals as robust as you like.

assuming one could fashioned the bits and mount them firm enough.

And that is trivially easy to do.

Its not as if its taking huge currents like bells or chimes, it just has
to change a mode in the intercom to bell mode after all.

Yeah, that part is a complete yawn to do.

Bod wrote

Yes, but the standard plasticky ones *all* seem to be not waterproof.

Sure, but this is a DIY group.

I built the entire house from scratch on a bare block of land.

A bell push is quite a bit easier than that.

I know, I've probably had about 6 or 7 go wrong in the last 10 years
or so. We've even got a canopy over our door.

Then you should make one yourself.

I could do, but I want an illuminated one. They only cost a few quid so
not worth the bother.

On Thu, 07 May 2015 22:14:55 +0100, Brian-Gaff wrote:

So we need gold plated wiping contacts inside a hermetically sealed
butyl flexible pod which is then placed inside a normal looking push.
Or even more overkill I guess, a long bit of string to pull which
operates
a switch inside the house instead!

At one point, I was considering a string operated doorbell (as with
servants' bells).

On 07/05/15 22:14, Brian-Gaff wrote:
So we need gold plated wiping contacts inside a hermetically sealed butyl
flexible pod which is then placed inside a normal looking push.
Or even more overkill I guess, a long bit of string to pull which operates
a switch inside the house instead!

magnet and reed switch maybe...

Or this one
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Single-Outdo...outdoor+switch


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On 07/05/2015 09:26, Bod wrote:

removed.
Most bell pushes seem to still be of this type. I had no idea of the
stringent needs of a bell push in this environment before, so
wondered if
anyone else had any bright ideas?
Brian

I seem to recall those old type of bell pushes that seemed to always
work come rain or shine. I mean the white coloured ceramic buttons
encased in brass, that you used to see outside old buildings.
I don't know if they are still available or not.

Try this for a traditional bell that always works and has big chunky
batteries

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151251036496


Thanks for the link, but even that bell push looks like the standard
rubbishy ones (I could well be wrong though).
Have you any experience of this one, by any chance?

Our local library has had one on their back door for several years, and
the bell push isn't protected from the elements. The push did fail
recently but it looked like it had been there for a couple of decades,
so I stuck a new one up. Since then I've installed two more bells for
family members who were fed up with wireless failures. Postmen love them.
No way of knowing how long a given plastic is likely to survive UV
exposure. Some plant labels disintegrate within months I notice!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151251036496


Thanks for the link, but even that bell push looks like the standard
rubbishy ones (I could well be wrong though).
Have you any experience of this one, by any chance?

Our local library has had one on their back door for several years, and
the bell push isn't protected from the elements. The push did fail
recently but it looked like it had been there for a couple of decades,
so I stuck a new one up. Since then I've installed two more bells for
family members who were fed up with wireless failures. Postmen love them.
No way of knowing how long a given plastic is likely to survive UV
exposure. Some plant labels disintegrate within months I notice!

The trouble with those cheap bell pushes is the shoddy innards of the
button assembly. Quite often the push would either not ring or it would
get stuck on and continually ringing.

One time (bizarely) the bell push decided to ring constantly of its
own accord and simultaineously set next doors car alarm off.
This was strange because I had not changed the channel on the bell and
next doors car hadn't changed their car alarm.
I've had at least 6 wireless door bells in the last 10 years.
After the last one packed up I'd had enough and have since ordered a
wired one.

In article ,
Huge wrote:
My MIL's front doorbell was clockwork with a mechanically operated bell
push (it had a pushrod that ran through the wall).

Yup. Snag with those is the bell may not be in the best position to be
heard in the house. But at least the one ringing it will hear it.

--
*Plagiarism saves time *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 07 May 2015 11:07:17 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Bod explained on 07/05/2015 :
removed.
Most bell pushes seem to still be of this type. I had no idea of
the
stringent needs of a bell push in this environment before, so
wondered if anyone else had any bright ideas?
Brian

I seem to recall those old type of bell pushes that seemed to always
work come rain or shine. I mean the white coloured ceramic buttons
encased in brass, that you used to see outside old buildings.
I don't know if they are still available or not.

Try this for a traditional bell that always works and has big chunky
batteries

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151251036496


Thanks for the link, but even that bell push looks like the standard
rubbishy ones (I could well be wrong though).
Have you any experience of this one, by any chance?

You are correct, they are just the standard rubbishy ones. I suppose you
could entirely fill the push with silicon grease, to help exclude the
water?

Funnily enough, that looks exactly the same as the door bell push switch
we've been using without any problems whatsoever these past 30 odd years.
It's wired to an ex-GPO 12/24 volt trembler bell mounted on the other
side of the door frame using until a few years ago, a 24v battery pack
made up with a couple of 8 x AA cell holders glued back to back with
double sided adhesive tape hanging from a screw head below the bell.

I resisted the temptation (I think!) to flood the innards with silicone
grease on the basis that it was more likely to cause retention of
moisture between the contacts formed from condensation. I'd rather accept
the inevitable and less troublesome ingress of moisture due to rain which
could readily drain out or evaporate before building up enough to bridge
the contacts. Intermittently wet electrical connections have a much
longer service life than those left in a permanent state of wetness.

When I bought myself a cordless door bell a decade or so back for my
upstairs office, I decided to use the original bell push to trigger the
wireless sender and wired it up to the sender unit mounted immediately
below the battery via a 12v zenner and a standard 1N series diode so that
the power came from the bell battery rather than its own internal 12v
battery.

This worked a treat and the wireless bell push could still be operated
independently of the front door bell, using its own internal battery,
either for testing or for when the XYL came home with shopping and needed
to attract my attention without resorting to screaming out loud to be
heard via the closed office door and the oft times sound of music or a TV
programme I'd happen to be auditioning.

The battery pack did eventually start to fade (gracefully) after a
couple of decades, by which time the battery holders were beyond
redemption due to corroded contacts.

When it came to a replacement battery pack, I had an attack of
"Pragmatism" and simply spent a whole quid on a 3 pack of PP3s which I
converted into a 27v battery courtesy of a couple of soldered wire
straps, hanging the pack off of the wood screw previously used for my 24v
monstrousity. The extra 3 volts proved not to be a problem with the "12
volt" wireless bell push so it was "Job Done", and rather neatly compared
to what had gone before.

My only concern now is that by the time I need to replace said 3 x PP3
battery pack, the pound shops may have reduced the pack size down to just
two. I think Poundland are still selling them in packs of three so I
think I should buy a couple more packs whilst I still can and store them
sealed from moisture ingress in the freezer. According to the wikipedia
article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc€“carbon_battery this battery
type *can* be frozen without damage.

--
Johnny B Good

On Thu, 07 May 2015 11:26:19 +0100, Bod wrote:

On 07/05/2015 11:07, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Bod explained on 07/05/2015 :
removed.
Most bell pushes seem to still be of this type. I had no idea of
the
stringent needs of a bell push in this environment before, so
wondered if anyone else had any bright ideas?
Brian

I seem to recall those old type of bell pushes that seemed to always
work come rain or shine. I mean the white coloured ceramic buttons
encased in brass, that you used to see outside old buildings.
I don't know if they are still available or not.

Try this for a traditional bell that always works and has big chunky
batteries

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151251036496


Thanks for the link, but even that bell push looks like the standard
rubbishy ones (I could well be wrong though).
Have you any experience of this one, by any chance?

You are correct, they are just the standard rubbishy ones. I suppose
you could entirely fill the push with silicon grease, to help exclude
the water?

Yebbut, we should expect an external doorbell to be waterproof.
I don't think that is asking too much.

For a door bell push switch, you *are* asking too much. They just need
to be rainproof with a drain hole providing an escape route for any
moisture ingress whether caused by rain or, more commonly, water vapour
condensing inside the bell push housing.

Curiously enough, a requirement often comfortably exceeded by your
common or garden "Two Brass Strips" classic bell push switch provided
it's not over-exposed to wind blown driven deluges from every point of
the compass by being mounted naked atop a gate post in an area famed for
its high annual horizontal rainfall.

In the case of most suburban dwellings in the UK, the house itself
shelters the bell push from a little more than half the compass points of
exposure and mitigates the impact from the remaining compass points. It's
surprising how often such cheap 'n' cheerful bell pushes can fulfil their
function over decades of faultless service.

Obviously, there'll be exceptional circumstances demanding a more
weatherproof solution, either a specially constructed bell push optimised
to prevent driven rain ingress and provide improved moisture drainage and
ventilation [1], or else the mounting of a classic door bell push switch
within some form of protective cowling. The alternative, specialised gas
proof switches used in places like petro-chemical plants tend to be a
rather expensive and bulky 'overkill' solution for something as mundane
as a door bell push switch.

[1] As has already been suggested, a magnetically operated reed switch
design can readily achieve the erstwhile impossible gas tightness
required to keep the switch contacts free of contamination by moisture,
allowing the use of silicone grease to protect the wired connections from
the inevitable condensation of the atmospheric humidity invariably
present to a greater or lesser degree in the UK's climate. If you want
even more sophistication, you could use a Hall Effect sensor switch and
magnet, with a liberal coating of silicone grease over any exposed
electrical connections.

--
Johnny B Good

On Fri, 08 May 2015 11:17:57 +0100, Bod wrote:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151251036496


Thanks for the link, but even that bell push looks like the standard
rubbishy ones (I could well be wrong though).
Have you any experience of this one, by any chance?

Our local library has had one on their back door for several years, and
the bell push isn't protected from the elements. The push did fail
recently but it looked like it had been there for a couple of decades,
so I stuck a new one up. Since then I've installed two more bells for
family members who were fed up with wireless failures. Postmen love
them.
No way of knowing how long a given plastic is likely to survive UV
exposure. Some plant labels disintegrate within months I notice!

The trouble with those cheap bell pushes is the shoddy innards of the
button assembly. Quite often the push would either not ring or it would
get stuck on and continually ringing.

One time (bizarely) the bell push decided to ring constantly of its
own accord and simultaineously set next doors car alarm off.
This was strange because I had not changed the channel on the bell and
next doors car hadn't changed their car alarm.
I've had at least 6 wireless door bells in the last 10 years.
After the last one packed up I'd had enough and have since ordered a
wired one.

I've had the *same* wireless door bell for the past decade (still going
strong) but I have to admit that mounting its bell push on the *inside*
of the front door frame may have had a lot to do with its longevity. :-)

--
Johnny B Good

On Thu, 07 May 2015 21:45:34 +0100, Brian-Gaff wrote:

No I don't want a bell, I want the door intercom and bell to actually
work.
that is the point. I could easily get a proper door chime or something
that
playes the latest telephone ring tones, but that is not what I'm after,
its only a bloody switch after all, I am not interested in reinventing
the wheel.
Brian

As someone else has already suggested, your best bet is likely to be a
bell push based on a magnetically operated reed switch (mercury wetted
for preference), assuming the intercom doesn't call for anything more
sophisticated than a simple "push to make" single pole switch.

If the existing switch involves more poles or uses a change-over contact
or two, you can still use a magnetically operated reed bell push switch
if you can incorporate a suitable relay to generate the more complex
switching functions of the original switch.

Truly weatherproof switches need to be gas tight to prevent moisture
ingress and these ain't cheap.

--
Johnny B Good

On Thu, 07 May 2015 11:42:26 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Bod formulated the question :
Yes, but the standard plasticky ones *all* seem to be not waterproof.
I know, I've probably had about 6 or 7 go wrong in the last 10 years or
so.
We've even got a canopy over our door.

Weather-proofing is not I think the main issue - It is over enthusiastic
button pushers. If they push the button and get no noise as feedback,
they tend to try again and push even harder.

You may well have hit the nail on the head! :-)

I remember consciously avoiding the "remote from the front door bell
location" syndrome when I decided to fit the front door bell onto the
inside door frame within half a metre of the door bell push since it was
loud enough to be heard from any of the ground floor rooms even with
closed doors (the kitchen extension hadn't be built at that time
otherwise I might have located it a few feet further into the hallway to
reduce "Path Loss" to the back kitchen).

That decision to "Keep It Simple Stupid!" (the famous KISS principle,
sometimes misinterpreted as "Keep It Stupidly Simple.") may well explain
the ongoing reliability of a 30 plus years old bell push but I do have to
admit that it also saved me a pointless, imv, non- trivial bell wiring
exercise. :-)

--
Johnny B Good

On Thu, 07 May 2015 12:09:44 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

On Thu, 07 May 2015 12:22:59 +0100, Bod wrote:

On 07/05/2015 11:42, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Bod formulated the question :
Yes, but the standard plasticky ones *all* seem to be not waterproof.
I know, I've probably had about 6 or 7 go wrong in the last 10 years
or so. We've even got a canopy over our door.

Weather-proofing is not I think the main issue - It is over
enthusiastic button pushers. If they push the button and get no noise
as feedback, they tend to try again and push even harder.

There's that to it as well.

I was wondering about a small speaker above the door. On pressing the
button, the bells would sound in the house, but outside, a voice would
intone "The bell has been activated".

In Brian's case, there's already a speaker (it's a door phone). If it's
an all-in-one combined unit, it may already provide a similar form of
feedback by design (a lot of such units do).

However, your solution could be simplified to placing a microphone right
next to the bell so it can be desensitised against would be eaves
droppers by the necessary attenuation required to prevent the speaker
amplifier being grossly over-driven by the bell sound (KISS! :-)

--
Johnny B Good

On Thu, 07 May 2015 13:51:08 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

On Thu, 07 May 2015 13:20:44 +0100, Bod wrote:

On 07/05/2015 13:09, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 07 May 2015 12:22:59 +0100, Bod wrote:

On 07/05/2015 11:42, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Bod formulated the question :
Yes, but the standard plasticky ones *all* seem to be not
waterproof.
I know, I've probably had about 6 or 7 go wrong in the last 10
years or so. We've even got a canopy over our door.

Weather-proofing is not I think the main issue - It is over
enthusiastic button pushers. If they push the button and get no
noise as feedback, they tend to try again and push even harder.

There's that to it as well.

I was wondering about a small speaker above the door. On pressing the
button, the bells would sound in the house, but outside, a voice would
intone "The bell has been activated".

Or "Stop pressing the bloody bell! I'm coming!"

Seriously though, it's an idea or even just the sound of the bell
so the bell pusher can hear it.

I have been seriously considering it. The bell push (as regulars may
remember) rings all of the phones in the house with a special cadence.
(a) it isn't very audible outside and (b) the caller may not realise
it's the "bell". I have spare pairs to the front door so I'm putting it
on the list...

I think the sound of a basic trembler bell, real or synthesised, would
do the trick rather nicely. :-)

--
Johnny B Good

On Thu, 07 May 2015 22:14:55 +0100, Brian-Gaff wrote:

So we need gold plated wiping contacts inside a hermetically sealed
butyl flexible pod which is then placed inside a normal looking push.
Or even more overkill I guess, a long bit of string to pull which
operates
a switch inside the house instead!


Brian! You're an inspiration to us all!

That's given me (and doubtless almost everyone else) a great idea in
regard of a solution to your problem.

Why bother with a switch (or, for that matter, an intercom amplifier
setup or even electricity) if you're going to use a cord pull?

I'm sure a simple mechanical intercom based on the "Two tin cans and a
length of string" principle could be fabricated such that it operates
both a bell by the front door and one where your old fashioned electric
intercom used to be.

Tensioning springs would allow high amplitude low frequency transients
to operate the bells when the caller pulls the doorbell knob back and
forth through the inch or so of its travel before a stop in the cord
comes back to rest against the diaphragm of the "Speaker/Microphone"
portion of the 'bell push' to enable the "two tin can joined by a length
of string" intercom function.

With the right quality of low stretch cordage and not too many twists
and turns to be negotiated, you could have an effective door intercom
system that requires neither mains nor battery power.

Alternatively, you could simply use the cordage to operate both bells[1]
and use a seperate speaking tube for the intercom function when the
cordage route is just too convoluted to be practical. You might even be
able to run the bell operating cord via the speaking tube.

Just think, with modern materials and design techniques, it may be
possible to escape the tyranny of batteries and bell transformer power
vampires, along with the issues of damp ingress into electrical
connections.

[1] You could get away without a door located bell if the remote bell is
within 'earshot' of the intercom such that the caller can hear it ringing
in response to his efforts (in the former case of the string intercom,
after he's let go of the bell pull).


--
Johnny B Good

On Thu, 07 May 2015 22:34:23 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

On Thu, 07 May 2015 22:14:55 +0100, Brian-Gaff wrote:

So we need gold plated wiping contacts inside a hermetically sealed
butyl flexible pod which is then placed inside a normal looking push.
Or even more overkill I guess, a long bit of string to pull which
operates
a switch inside the house instead!

At one point, I was considering a string operated doorbell (as with
servants' bells).

Why not? with modern low stretch cordage, you can even include an
intercom function based on the tin cans with length of string
principle. :-)

--
Johnny B Good

On Sat, 09 May 2015 00:41:24 +0000, Johnny B Good wrote:

On Thu, 07 May 2015 22:14:55 +0100, Brian-Gaff wrote:

So we need gold plated wiping contacts inside a hermetically sealed
butyl flexible pod which is then placed inside a normal looking push.
Or even more overkill I guess, a long bit of string to pull which
operates
a switch inside the house instead!


Brian! You're an inspiration to us all!

That's given me (and doubtless almost everyone else) a great idea in
regard of a solution to your problem.

Why bother with a switch (or, for that matter, an intercom amplifier
setup or even electricity) if you're going to use a cord pull?

I'm sure a simple mechanical intercom based on the "Two tin cans and a
length of string" principle could be fabricated such that it operates
both a bell by the front door and one where your old fashioned electric
intercom used to be.

Tensioning springs would allow high amplitude low frequency transients
to operate the bells when the caller pulls the doorbell knob back and
forth through the inch or so of its travel before a stop in the cord
comes back to rest against the diaphragm of the "Speaker/Microphone"
portion of the 'bell push' to enable the "two tin can joined by a length
of string" intercom function.

With the right quality of low stretch cordage and not too many twists
and turns to be negotiated, you could have an effective door intercom
system that requires neither mains nor battery power.

Alternatively, you could simply use the cordage to operate both
bells[1]
and use a seperate speaking tube for the intercom function when the
cordage route is just too convoluted to be practical. You might even be
able to run the bell operating cord via the speaking tube.

Just think, with modern materials and design techniques, it may be
possible to escape the tyranny of batteries and bell transformer power
vampires, along with the issues of damp ingress into electrical
connections.

[1] You could get away without a door located bell if the remote bell is
within 'earshot' of the intercom such that the caller can hear it
ringing in response to his efforts (in the former case of the string
intercom, after he's let go of the bell pull).

http://goo.gl/QuwTAU

On Sat, 09 May 2015 00:43:15 +0000, Johnny B Good wrote:

On Thu, 07 May 2015 22:34:23 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

On Thu, 07 May 2015 22:14:55 +0100, Brian-Gaff wrote:

So we need gold plated wiping contacts inside a hermetically sealed
butyl flexible pod which is then placed inside a normal looking push.
Or even more overkill I guess, a long bit of string to pull which
operates
a switch inside the house instead!

At one point, I was considering a string operated doorbell (as with
servants' bells).

Why not? with modern low stretch cordage, you can even include an
intercom function based on the tin cans with length of string principle.
:-)

I just noticed the two bells on the floor in the corner of this room! It
was getting two bells to work at a distance without requiring a power
assusted cord that defeated me..

I must find a use for them now that the telephone system provides the
door bells. Or perhaps one of them can be a feedback repeater by the
front door.

On Thu, 7 May 2015 22:31:41 +0100, "Brian-Gaff"
wrote:

Its way beyond wd 40, its actually squashed and I suspect the brass will
break if I have to reset it many more times.
Brian

Is there some amplification involved, so that only a few mA is enough
to sound the bell? If so, that's the problem. Water in normal bell
pushes doesn't pass enough current to sound an old fashioned bell.
--
Dave W