Is anyone else getting pestered by "energy consultants" offering to
act on one's behalf, have smart meters installed and then negotiating
a unit price while it is low now for when renewal is due next winter?
We do use a lot of electrical units in our yard (3 72kW supplies) but
how do they make their profit. I am a bit naive about smart meters
apart from knowing they communicate consumption in real time.

It reminds me of slamming with telephone providers in the past but I
wonder what the catch is?

Similarly I'm having cleaning chemical firms offering to send sample
packs out of the blue claiming we have done business in the past, when
we haven't. Again this reminds me of the old carbon copy paper scam
from the 60s.

I presume as a business even if I ask them to stop pestering me and
they continue no laws are being broken?

wrote:
Is anyone else getting pestered by "energy consultants" offering to
act on one's behalf, have smart meters installed and then negotiating
a unit price while it is low now for when renewal is due next winter?
We do use a lot of electrical units in our yard (3 72kW supplies) but
how do they make their profit. I am a bit naive about smart meters
apart from knowing they communicate consumption in real time.

It reminds me of slamming with telephone providers in the past but I
wonder what the catch is?

Similarly I'm having cleaning chemical firms offering to send sample
packs out of the blue claiming we have done business in the past, when
we haven't. Again this reminds me of the old carbon copy paper scam
from the 60s.

I presume as a business even if I ask them to stop pestering me and
they continue no laws are being broken?

Look up the recent thread in this NG regarding the pros and cons of
smart meters.

On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 10:39:30 +0000, Bob Minchin wrote:

Is anyone else getting pestered by "energy consultants" offering
to
act on one's behalf, have smart meters installed and then
negotiating
a unit price while it is low now for when renewal is due next
winter?
We do use a lot of electrical units in our yard (3 72kW supplies)
....

Look up the recent thread in this NG regarding the pros and cons of
smart meters.

Which being about domestic smart meters might not be relevant to 3 x
300 A supplies (is that 300 A per phase 3 phase supply?).

I'd be very wary of any company cold calling but there are companies
out there that do manage electricity supplies for large, (FSVO
"large") consumers of power. Donno what they do but "realtime"
pricing from the grid based on what all their customers are using
might be part of it. This would need a "smart meter". GIYF...

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article ,
writes:
Is anyone else getting pestered by "energy consultants" offering to
act on one's behalf, have smart meters installed and then negotiating
a unit price while it is low now for when renewal is due next winter?
We do use a lot of electrical units in our yard (3 72kW supplies) but
how do they make their profit. I am a bit naive about smart meters
apart from knowing they communicate consumption in real time.

It reminds me of slamming with telephone providers in the past but I
wonder what the catch is?

Similarly I'm having cleaning chemical firms offering to send sample
packs out of the blue claiming we have done business in the past, when
we haven't. Again this reminds me of the old carbon copy paper scam
from the 60s.

I presume as a business even if I ask them to stop pestering me and
they continue no laws are being broken?

There's currently a big problem with businesses getting slammed,
and inadequate legal protection for them. It often happens following
a conversation with an "energy consultant" and the business doesn't
believe they consented to the change, which includes a long contract
at highly uncompetitve rates, and high premature termination cost.
They usually aim for small businesses, which get suckered in more
easily. Radio 4 has covered this a few times.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 23:48:54 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:


Which being about domestic smart meters might not be relevant to 3 x
300 A supplies (is that 300 A per phase 3 phase supply?).

I think it's 100 Amp per phase which if they are balanced gives 72kW
but in practice we don't get too near that as the supplies are to
several units. The reason for 3 supplies is that above 100A direct
current monitoring meters are not available and you get complications
with peak power and half hourly tariffs.

AJH

On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 23:56:16 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

There's currently a big problem with businesses getting slammed,
and inadequate legal protection for them. It often happens following
a conversation with an "energy consultant" and the business doesn't
believe they consented to the change, which includes a long contract
at highly uncompetitve rates, and high premature termination cost.
They usually aim for small businesses, which get suckered in more
easily. Radio 4 has covered this a few times.

This was my fear, there is no advantage in smart metering to us as I
supply meter readings and receive a correct bill once a month which is
taken by direct debit.

My suspicions were aroused when they asked for Meter Point Admin
Numbers. These contain details of the type of supply. The request for
authorisation to contact the supplier really set alarm bells ringing.

Yes I thought the reason for targeting small businesses was because
they did not benefit from consumer protection like a private
individual.

....and I did read the whole smart meter thread

AJH

wrote in message
...
Is anyone else getting pestered by "energy consultants" offering to
act on one's behalf, have smart meters installed and then negotiating
a unit price while it is low now for when renewal is due next winter?
We do use a lot of electrical units in our yard (3 72kW supplies) but
how do they make their profit. I am a bit naive about smart meters
apart from knowing they communicate consumption in real time.

It reminds me of slamming with telephone providers in the past but I
wonder what the catch is?

Similarly I'm having cleaning chemical firms offering to send sample
packs out of the blue claiming we have done business in the past, when
we haven't. Again this reminds me of the old carbon copy paper scam
from the 60s.

I presume as a business even if I ask them to stop pestering me and
they continue no laws are being broken?

you presume wrong

The "cold calling" laws requires companies to abide by all specific requests
not to call, irrespective of whether the requesting party is a business or
an individual.

It's only the blanket "opt out" that applies to individuals only.

Of course:

a) getting that rule enforced

b) the company suffering sufficient penalty of breaking it

will be a long wait

tim

On Sat, 28 Mar 2015 10:09:55 +0000, wrote:

Which being about domestic smart meters might not be relevant to
3 x
300 A supplies (is that 300 A per phase 3 phase supply?).

I think it's 100 Amp per phase which if they are balanced gives 72kW

I have never been able to get my head around 3 phase and power. 100 A
per phase fully loaded and balanced (ie no neutral curent) is surely
415 * 100 = 41.5 kW per phase * 3 = 124.5 kW total?

72 kW at 240 V is 300 A, but 240 is the phase to neutral voltage, 415
being the phase to phase. Ah, light bulb moment, delta v star
wiring...

The reason for 3 supplies is that above 100A direct current monitoring
meters are not available and you get complications with peak power and
half hourly tariffs.

I vaugely remember something about a TV studio supply, if the studio
wasn't working it took naff all but working would push things to the
100 A / phase (notional) limit. Mainly because the the cameras
(Philips PC60's) wern't very sensitive, light levels high and so was
the heat, all that power going into tungsten filament lamps. The
tarrif allowed for this high peak demand without breaking the bank.

As you are on a "traditional" tariff it might be worth looking to see
what savings (if any) could be made by have a "managed" one that
deals with the peaks and half hourly stuff for you. Note this is you
spending an hour on google not giving details to a cold caller...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sat, 28 Mar 2015 12:25:46 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:


I have never been able to get my head around 3 phase and power. 100 A
per phase fully loaded and balanced (ie no neutral curent) is surely
415 * 100 = 41.5 kW per phase * 3 = 124.5 kW total?

I am no electrician but you have to consider that at max power the sum
of the currents is zero so you actually only need to know the voltage
and the current in one leg to work out the maximum power


I think this means the MCB would trip if any phase exceeded 100A even
though current between the phases could be substantially more than
this.

On 28/03/2015 12:25, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 28 Mar 2015 10:09:55 +0000, wrote:

Which being about domestic smart meters might not be relevant to
3 x
300 A supplies (is that 300 A per phase 3 phase supply?).

I think it's 100 Amp per phase which if they are balanced gives 72kW

I have never been able to get my head around 3 phase and power. 100 A
per phase fully loaded and balanced (ie no neutral curent) is surely
415 * 100 = 41.5 kW per phase * 3 = 124.5 kW total?

72 kW at 240 V is 300 A, but 240 is the phase to neutral voltage, 415
being the phase to phase. Ah, light bulb moment, delta v star
wiring...

The max power from 100A 3-Phase = 230 * 3 * 100 = 69kW

As you say no neutral current would flow.

If you place loads across phases you will get 400V across loads, but
each load will be taking 100A / sqrt(3).
So 400 * 3 * 100 / sqrt(3) = 69kW

The phase current would still be 100A, despite being 57A going to each
load due to vector cancellation.

On 28/03/2015 13:13, wrote:
On Sat, 28 Mar 2015 12:25:46 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:


I have never been able to get my head around 3 phase and power. 100 A
per phase fully loaded and balanced (ie no neutral curent) is surely
415 * 100 = 41.5 kW per phase * 3 = 124.5 kW total?

I am no electrician but you have to consider that at max power the sum
of the currents is zero so you actually only need to know the voltage
and the current in one leg to work out the maximum power


I think this means the MCB would trip if any phase exceeded 100A even
though current between the phases could be substantially more than
this.

The only way a current between phases could ever be more than the max
100A is where there's just one load between two of the phases, and where
some serious power factor correction is going on in the two affected phases.