I know they store power usage trends and can see how that might help the power generators. I logged in to my account and saw that when I ran the AC, the power usage went up. What a revelation! LOL! Other than that, what use are these things?

On 12/17/2013 07:26 PM, Guv Bob wrote:
I know they store power usage trends and can see how that might help
the power generators. I logged in to my account and saw that when I
ran the AC, the power usage went up. What a revelation! LOL! Other
than that, what use are these things?

Getting people comfortable with having every possible aspect of their
lives monitored and scrutinized. For your security and convenience, of
course.

Jon

On 12/17/2013 9:26 PM, Guv Bob wrote:
I know they store power usage trends and can see how that might help
the power generators. I logged in to my account and saw that when I
ran the AC, the power usage went up. What a revelation! LOL! Other
than that, what use are these things?


The secret police want to know what hours of the day you are home so
they can do a sneak and peek to find out if you have any seditious
tendencies. They will go through all your papers, copy the hard drive in
any computers you have, bug your home and surveil your land line and
cellphone. If you are suspected of sedition, a heavily armed SWAT team
will kick in your door then drag you and your family away for
interrogation. ^_^

TDD

On 12/18/2013 7:30 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 12/17/2013 9:26 PM, Guv Bob wrote:
I know they store power usage trends and can see how that might help
the power generators. I logged in to my account and saw that when I
ran the AC, the power usage went up. What a revelation! LOL! Other
than that, what use are these things?


The secret police want to know what hours of the day you are home so
they can do a sneak and peek to find out if you have any seditious
tendencies. They will go through all your papers, copy the hard drive
in any computers you have, bug your home and surveil your land line
and cellphone. If you are suspected of sedition, a heavily armed SWAT
team
will kick in your door then drag you and your family away for
interrogation. ^_^

You forgot, "and drink all your beer."

"Guv Bob" writes:
I know they store power usage trends and can see how that might help the =
power generators. I logged in to my account and saw that when I ran the =
AC, the power usage went up. What a revelation! LOL! Other than that, =
what use are these things?


No meter readers.

smart meters reportpower failures, if only your meter reports a power failure your home will be marked as a power thief, and inspected

if way too much power is being used your home will be checked for growing illegail drugs.

FUNNY, a few years ago I stumbled onto a hydropinic garden with grow light.

I gave it to my best friend and just requested some tomatoes grown in mid winter.

my buddy put the garden in his basement, neighbors asked if he was growing pot

incidently we did some taste testing of the tomatoes, no flavor or other difference between store tomatoes or hydropoinic

In article ,
bob haller wrote:
smart meters reportpower failures, if only your meter reports a power failure your home will be marked as a power thief, and inspected

Good. If only my meter reports a power failure, then it means the line
from the pole to my house is down, and I want someone to come out and
fix it.

if way too much power is being used your home will be checked for growing illegail drugs.

I'd better disconnect the hot tub, then. The power company already knows
we use way more electricity than our neighbors.


Cindy Hamilton
--

"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
...
On 12/17/2013 07:26 PM, Guv Bob wrote:
I know they store power usage trends and can see how that might help
the power generators. I logged in to my account and saw that when I
ran the AC, the power usage went up. What a revelation! LOL! Other
than that, what use are these things?

Getting people comfortable with having every possible aspect of their
lives monitored and scrutinized. For your security and convenience, of
course.

They are designed to do what they are used for here in Ontario, Canada.
Raise the cost of electricity when you want to use it. My wife now does her
laundry after midnight so she can dry the clothes at the low rate. Otherwise
our outrageous electric cost would be even higher.

Did you know that during Earth Hour, when everyone is encouraged to turn off
the lights for one hour, the electric companies pay industry to use up the
power. This is because you cannot shut down a nuclear plant for one hour,
nor stop a hydro dam or even shut down a coal powered generator plant.
Instead of saving money it costs us all extra to not use the lights for one
hour.

Guv Bob wrote:

I know they store power usage trends and can see how that might help the power generators. I logged in to my account and saw that when I ran the AC, the power usage went up. What a revelation! LOL! Other than that, what use are these things?

Time of day billing, something they tried years ago but the technology
really wasn't ready yet. For the past year or two I've seen offers from
the utility here for "free" power from something like 8pm to 6am, i.e.
when commercial loads are lower and there is a surplus of generating
capacity. Not a bad deal if you can shift your usage patterns.

Scott Lurndal wrote:

"Guv Bob" writes:
I know they store power usage trends and can see how that might help the =
power generators. I logged in to my account and saw that when I ran the =
AC, the power usage went up. What a revelation! LOL! Other than that, =
what use are these things?


No meter readers.

And no misreads. Pre smart meters I had a fair number of incidents where
I had to call in a corrected reading when the meter reader messed up one
of the upper digits.

On 12/18/2013 8:50 AM, Moe DeLoughan wrote:
On 12/18/2013 7:30 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 12/17/2013 9:26 PM, Guv Bob wrote:
I know they store power usage trends and can see how that might help
the power generators. I logged in to my account and saw that when I
ran the AC, the power usage went up. What a revelation! LOL! Other
than that, what use are these things?


The secret police want to know what hours of the day you are home so
they can do a sneak and peek to find out if you have any seditious
tendencies. They will go through all your papers, copy the hard drive
in any computers you have, bug your home and surveil your land line
and cellphone. If you are suspected of sedition, a heavily armed SWAT
team
will kick in your door then drag you and your family away for
interrogation. ^_^

You forgot, "and drink all your beer."


I didn't think of that because I've never drunk a beer or even a glass
of wine in my life. I suppose that makes me a heretic who must turn in
his man card. ^_^

TDD

Cindy Hamilton wrote:

In article ,
bob haller wrote:

if way too much power is being used your home will be checked for growing illegail drugs.

I'd better disconnect the hot tub, then. The power company already knows
we use way more electricity than our neighbors.

Given that the US Supreme Court already ruled that infrared surveys
required a warrant, one would expect that the warrant requirement would
also apply to utility records.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:48:16 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Scott Lurndal wrote:

"Guv Bob" writes:
I know they store power usage trends and can see how that might help the =
power generators. I logged in to my account and saw that when I ran the =
AC, the power usage went up. What a revelation! LOL! Other than that, =
what use are these things?


No meter readers.

And no misreads. Pre smart meters I had a fair number of incidents where
I had to call in a corrected reading when the meter reader messed up one
of the upper digits.

You must be special. I have a smart meter and STILL have a meter
reader. The meter has a wireless 48 GB transmitter, the truck driver
drives by and collects the meter reading.

Do you think the utility is reading a smart meter from the home
office, remotely? Don't think so...unless something is special.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 13:32:34 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:48:16 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Scott Lurndal wrote:

"Guv Bob" writes:
I know they store power usage trends and can see how that might help the =
power generators. I logged in to my account and saw that when I ran the =
AC, the power usage went up. What a revelation! LOL! Other than that, =
what use are these things?


No meter readers.

And no misreads. Pre smart meters I had a fair number of incidents where
I had to call in a corrected reading when the meter reader messed up one
of the upper digits.

You must be special. I have a smart meter and STILL have a meter
reader. The meter has a wireless 48 GB transmitter, the truck driver
drives by and collects the meter reading.

Do you think the utility is reading a smart meter from the home
office, remotely? Don't think so...unless something is special.

No reason they can't (except some money). The city I used to live in
was converting over to a "smart grid" that was part of their
cable/Internet system. It would have eliminated meter readers
completely (they had been doing it with the truck up and down the
street, as you suggest, for years).

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:02:41 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Cindy Hamilton wrote:

In article ,
bob haller wrote:

if way too much power is being used your home will be checked for growing illegail drugs.

I'd better disconnect the hot tub, then. The power company already knows
we use way more electricity than our neighbors.

Given that the US Supreme Court already ruled that infrared surveys
required a warrant, one would expect that the warrant requirement would
also apply to utility records.

I bet you'll find that you're wrong on that one. The fed doesn't have
to have a warrant to get your phone records. They have them all.

On 12/18/2013 3:32 PM, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:48:16 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Scott Lurndal wrote:

"Guv Bob" writes:
I know they store power usage trends and can see how that might help the =
power generators. I logged in to my account and saw that when I ran the =
AC, the power usage went up. What a revelation! LOL! Other than that, =
what use are these things?


No meter readers.

And no misreads. Pre smart meters I had a fair number of incidents where
I had to call in a corrected reading when the meter reader messed up one
of the upper digits.

You must be special. I have a smart meter and STILL have a meter
reader. The meter has a wireless 48 GB transmitter, the truck driver
drives by and collects the meter reading.

Do you think the utility is reading a smart meter from the home
office, remotely? Don't think so...unless something is special.


Did you mean 48ghz or 4.8ghz rather than 48 GB? Some of the smart meters
are on a peer to peer network where the data from each meter is picked
up by the next one and information is spread through the network
bouncing from meter to meter until it gets to a main node for collection
by the power company. It depends what system you're on but it's my
understanding that the way many smart meters work is that they're on a
mesh network with other smart meters. ^_^

TDD

On 12/18/2013 12:47 PM, EXT wrote:

Did you know that during Earth Hour, when everyone is encouraged to turn
off the lights for one hour, the electric companies pay industry to use
up the power. This is because you cannot shut down a nuclear plant for
one hour, nor stop a hydro dam or even shut down a coal powered
generator plant. Instead of saving money it costs us all extra to not
use the lights for one hour.


This is not true. Power plants can throttle down the output, directly,
and bring offline necessary units in running standby, or stopped
standby, mode.

Look up "droop mode vs isochronous" via search engine.

Depending on what is going on, and how the plant is operated, switching
all units (maybe minus one) into droop will have the power plant
reacting to load conditions. Many power plants have automatic controls
for such circumstances. Others might have operators that will make
the decision. Shutting the plant down is not necessary.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 18:44:59 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

You must be special. I have a smart meter and STILL have a meter
reader. The meter has a wireless 48 GB transmitter, the truck driver
drives by and collects the meter reading.

Do you think the utility is reading a smart meter from the home
office, remotely? Don't think so...unless something is special.


Did you mean 48ghz or 4.8ghz rather than 48 GB? Some of the smart meters
are on a peer to peer network where the data from each meter is picked
up by the next one and information is spread through the network
bouncing from meter to meter until it gets to a main node for collection
by the power company. It depends what system you're on but it's my
understanding that the way many smart meters work is that they're on a
mesh network with other smart meters. ^_^

TDD

I checked. And I mispoke; I was looking at the gas meter which says
40GB. Made by ITRON ? The installer told me the battery would last ~
15 years. I think the meter just transmits when the truck drives by,
around the 'hood and pings it or sends a packet requesting the data
from the meter.

Sorry for the confusion.

Q. What is a smart meter?
A. Smart meters are digital devices that collect energy-use data and,
unlike traditional meters, transmit and receive data, too. Electric
energy use will be recorded every 15 minutes to provide an accurate
view of your daily energy patterns.

Thanks for making me look :-/

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 19:38:22 -0500, wrote:

Do you think the utility is reading a smart meter from the home
office, remotely? Don't think so...unless something is special.

No reason they can't (except some money). The city I used to live in
was converting over to a "smart grid" that was part of their
cable/Internet system. It would have eliminated meter readers
completely (they had been doing it with the truck up and down the
street, as you suggest, for years).

I stand corrected (was looking at my gas meter wireless gadget).

Q. What is a smart meter?

A. Smart meters are digital devices that collect energy-use data and,
unlike traditional meters, transmit and receive data, too. Electric
energy use will be recorded every 15 minutes to provide an accurate
view of your daily energy patterns.

local utility FAQ

Oren wrote:

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:48:16 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Scott Lurndal wrote:

"Guv Bob" writes:
I know they store power usage trends and can see how that might help the =
power generators. I logged in to my account and saw that when I ran the =
AC, the power usage went up. What a revelation! LOL! Other than that, =
what use are these things?


No meter readers.

And no misreads. Pre smart meters I had a fair number of incidents where
I had to call in a corrected reading when the meter reader messed up one
of the upper digits.

You must be special. I have a smart meter and STILL have a meter
reader. The meter has a wireless 48 GB transmitter, the truck driver
drives by and collects the meter reading.

Do you think the utility is reading a smart meter from the home
office, remotely? Don't think so...unless something is special.

What does that have to do with misreads? The old visual readings were
fraught with errors, an electronic reading is normally error free.

wrote:

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:02:41 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Cindy Hamilton wrote:

In article ,
bob haller wrote:

if way too much power is being used your home will be checked for growing illegail drugs.

I'd better disconnect the hot tub, then. The power company already knows
we use way more electricity than our neighbors.

Given that the US Supreme Court already ruled that infrared surveys
required a warrant, one would expect that the warrant requirement would
also apply to utility records.

I bet you'll find that you're wrong on that one. The fed doesn't have
to have a warrant to get your phone records. They have them all.

It seems at least one court disagrees with that per the latest news. Who
knows where it will end up as it works it's way up through the courts.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 21:03:51 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


wrote:

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 16:02:41 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Cindy Hamilton wrote:

In article ,
bob haller wrote:

if way too much power is being used your home will be checked for growing illegail drugs.

I'd better disconnect the hot tub, then. The power company already knows
we use way more electricity than our neighbors.

Given that the US Supreme Court already ruled that infrared surveys
required a warrant, one would expect that the warrant requirement would
also apply to utility records.

I bet you'll find that you're wrong on that one. The fed doesn't have
to have a warrant to get your phone records. They have them all.

It seems at least one court disagrees with that per the latest news. Who
knows where it will end up as it works it's way up through the courts.

WTF are you talking about, kook?

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 21:01:57 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:

What does that have to do with misreads? The old visual readings were
fraught with errors, an electronic reading is normally error free.

I guess at this point, it is about as much as you saying "gas" is not
safe for residential use? "Fraught" with danger!

I'll defer to your superior intellect.

"Irreverent Maximus" wrote in message
...
On 12/18/2013 12:47 PM, EXT wrote:

Did you know that during Earth Hour, when everyone is encouraged to turn
off the lights for one hour, the electric companies pay industry to use
up the power. This is because you cannot shut down a nuclear plant for
one hour, nor stop a hydro dam or even shut down a coal powered
generator plant. Instead of saving money it costs us all extra to not
use the lights for one hour.


This is not true. Power plants can throttle down the output, directly,
and bring offline necessary units in running standby, or stopped
standby, mode.

Look up "droop mode vs isochronous" via search engine.

Depending on what is going on, and how the plant is operated, switching
all units (maybe minus one) into droop will have the power plant
reacting to load conditions. Many power plants have automatic controls
for such circumstances. Others might have operators that will make
the decision. Shutting the plant down is not necessary.


Perhaps in theory, but Ontario Hydro the electric generator for Ontario,
Canada, was scrambling to cover the drop in consumption during the last
earth day according to reports.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 18:18:42 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 21:01:57 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:

What does that have to do with misreads? The old visual readings were
fraught with errors, an electronic reading is normally error free.

I guess at this point, it is about as much as you saying "gas" is not
safe for residential use? "Fraught" with danger!

I'll defer to your superior intellect.

Don't say such things. The damned fool is too stupid to understand
sarcasm.

On 12/18/2013 8:14 PM, wrote:


WTF are you talking about, kook?


My guess is that he is talking about a judge that ruled, a couple of
days ago, that the NSA is breaking the Constitutional rights of
American citizens (4th Amendment) by monitoring domestic communication
without a warrant.

On 12/18/2013 8:18 PM, EXT wrote:

Perhaps in theory, but Ontario Hydro the electric generator for Ontario,
Canada, was scrambling to cover the drop in consumption during the last
earth day according to reports.

You are talking about Canada, ya know. They lost a good part of their
grid, and punked some of the Northeastern grid, because of a solar
flare. Meanwhile, the rest of the world laughed. :-)

With modern controls it is rather easy to manage such a situation.
Though, if there has not been an upgrade in 30 plus years...
Anyway, even 40 year old technology can handle the situation if
implemented correctly.

On 12/18/13 8:28 PM, Irreverent Maximus wrote:
On 12/18/2013 8:14 PM, wrote:


WTF are you talking about, kook?


My guess is that he is talking about a judge that ruled, a couple of
days ago, that the NSA is breaking the Constitutional rights of
American citizens (4th Amendment) by monitoring domestic communication
without a warrant.



But on the other hand a Texas court ruled warrants can be based on a
"prediction of a future crime".
Article he http://preview.tinyurl.com/l7pwjxc

On 12/18/2013 9:03 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 12/18/13 8:28 PM, Irreverent Maximus wrote:
On 12/18/2013 8:14 PM, wrote:


WTF are you talking about, kook?


My guess is that he is talking about a judge that ruled, a couple of
days ago, that the NSA is breaking the Constitutional rights of
American citizens (4th Amendment) by monitoring domestic communication
without a warrant.



But on the other hand a Texas court ruled warrants can be based on a
"prediction of a future crime".
Article he http://preview.tinyurl.com/l7pwjxc

Isn't that grand? Sounds like the states that may search your vehicle
anytime that they want. May I search your vehicle? No? *phone call*
Sir, please step away from the vehicle, I have a warrant...

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 21:20:51 -0600, Irreverent Maximus
wrote:

Isn't that grand? Sounds like the states that may search your vehicle
anytime that they want. May I search your vehicle? No? *phone call*
Sir, please step away from the vehicle, I have a warrant...

Pay attention here people. In 30 cities across the nation the feds are
trying to study you, collect your DNA without arrest or reasonable
doubt...

"...Drivers in a southeastern Pennsylvania town were forced off a
local street and into a parking lot, so a federal contractor – aided
by local police --could quiz them about their road habits and ask for
a cheek swab, in a replay of an incident last month in Texas.

- get my lawyer

- kiss my ass or serve a warrant

- what time is breakfast at the gray bar hotel, I expect it to be hot
and delivered on schedule

- what time is my exercise hour

- the progressive liberal maniacs have lost their marbles

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/18/pa-town-latest-to-force-drivers-over-and-ask-for-cheek-swabs-for-federal-study/

Phuck that!

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 21:03:13 -0600, Dean Hoffman
" wrote:

On 12/18/13 8:28 PM, Irreverent Maximus wrote:
On 12/18/2013 8:14 PM, wrote:


WTF are you talking about, kook?


My guess is that he is talking about a judge that ruled, a couple of
days ago, that the NSA is breaking the Constitutional rights of
American citizens (4th Amendment) by monitoring domestic communication
without a warrant.



But on the other hand a Texas court ruled warrants can be based on a
"prediction of a future crime".
Article he http://preview.tinyurl.com/l7pwjxc

Heck, I can predict future crime. No special talents needed.

On 12/18/2013 7:35 PM, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 18:44:59 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

You must be special. I have a smart meter and STILL have a meter
reader. The meter has a wireless 48 GB transmitter, the truck driver
drives by and collects the meter reading.

Do you think the utility is reading a smart meter from the home
office, remotely? Don't think so...unless something is special.


Did you mean 48ghz or 4.8ghz rather than 48 GB? Some of the smart meters
are on a peer to peer network where the data from each meter is picked
up by the next one and information is spread through the network
bouncing from meter to meter until it gets to a main node for collection
by the power company. It depends what system you're on but it's my
understanding that the way many smart meters work is that they're on a
mesh network with other smart meters. ^_^

TDD

I checked. And I mispoke; I was looking at the gas meter which says
40GB. Made by ITRON ? The installer told me the battery would last ~
15 years. I think the meter just transmits when the truck drives by,
around the 'hood and pings it or sends a packet requesting the data
from the meter.

Sorry for the confusion.

Q. What is a smart meter?
A. Smart meters are digital devices that collect energy-use data and,
unlike traditional meters, transmit and receive data, too. Electric
energy use will be recorded every 15 minutes to provide an accurate
view of your daily energy patterns.

Thanks for making me look :-/


I want sane people to correct me when I'm mistaken and I thank them for
educating me. It's just one way I can learn because it will make go
research it for myself and I wind up knowing more about the subject than
I did before. I'm never nasty to anyone when they have it wrong unless
it's one of the P.L.L.C.F. because they're convinced they're always
right, err, I mean left. ^_^

TDD

On 12/18/2013 8:25 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 18:18:42 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 21:01:57 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:

What does that have to do with misreads? The old visual readings
were fraught with errors, an electronic reading is normally error
free.

I guess at this point, it is about as much as you saying "gas" is
not safe for residential use? "Fraught" with danger!

I'll defer to your superior intellect.

Don't say such things. The damned fool is too stupid to understand
sarcasm.


I can't wait for hackers to be discovered to have been screwing with the
smart meter mesh network for a long time. I can think of all sorts of
ways to hack the network such as a secure form of communications for
patriots avoiding the secret police wiretaps on internet, cellphone and
land lines. It's entertaining to be living in interesting times. ^_^

TDD

In article ,
Irreverent Maximus wrote:

On 12/18/2013 8:14 PM, wrote:


WTF are you talking about, kook?


My guess is that he is talking about a judge that ruled, a couple of
days ago, that the NSA is breaking the Constitutional rights of
American citizens (4th Amendment) by monitoring domestic communication
without a warrant.

don't be confusing krwd with current events and facts

In article m,
"EXT" wrote:

"Irreverent Maximus" wrote in message
...
On 12/18/2013 12:47 PM, EXT wrote:

Did you know that during Earth Hour, when everyone is encouraged to turn
off the lights for one hour, the electric companies pay industry to use
up the power. This is because you cannot shut down a nuclear plant for
one hour, nor stop a hydro dam or even shut down a coal powered
generator plant. Instead of saving money it costs us all extra to not
use the lights for one hour.


This is not true. Power plants can throttle down the output, directly,
and bring offline necessary units in running standby, or stopped
standby, mode.

Look up "droop mode vs isochronous" via search engine.

Depending on what is going on, and how the plant is operated, switching
all units (maybe minus one) into droop will have the power plant
reacting to load conditions. Many power plants have automatic controls
for such circumstances. Others might have operators that will make
the decision. Shutting the plant down is not necessary.


Perhaps in theory, but Ontario Hydro the electric generator for Ontario,
Canada, was scrambling to cover the drop in consumption during the last
earth day according to reports.

one would assume that turning the spigot down on the hydro plants would
have the effect of throttling the output and saving the water for later
high demands...of course if OH is no longer using hydropower, they'd
have to have other management tools

not to mention that if they can't schedule production based on what they
knew would be a known drop in consumption, they need to offshore their
management

In article ,
wrote:

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 18:18:42 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 21:01:57 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:

What does that have to do with misreads? The old visual readings were
fraught with errors, an electronic reading is normally error free.

I guess at this point, it is about as much as you saying "gas" is not
safe for residential use? "Fraught" with danger!

I'll defer to your superior intellect.

Don't say such things. The damned fool is too stupid to understand
sarcasm.

and you're a damned fool. period.

On 12/18/2013 10:58 PM, Oren wrote:
- get my lawyer

- kiss my ass or serve a warrant



Mr. James Duane, a professor at Regent Law School and a former defense attorney,
tells you why you should never agree to be interviewed by the police.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 20:52:42 -0800, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 18:18:42 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 21:01:57 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:

What does that have to do with misreads? The old visual readings were
fraught with errors, an electronic reading is normally error free.

I guess at this point, it is about as much as you saying "gas" is not
safe for residential use? "Fraught" with danger!

I'll defer to your superior intellect.

Don't say such things. The damned fool is too stupid to understand
sarcasm.

and you're a damned fool. period.

Gee, Malformed, what made you think I was talking about you? Maybe
you really do know that you're stupid.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 20:28:29 -0600, Irreverent Maximus
wrote:

On 12/18/2013 8:14 PM, wrote:


WTF are you talking about, kook?


My guess is that he is talking about a judge that ruled, a couple of
days ago, that the NSA is breaking the Constitutional rights of
American citizens (4th Amendment) by monitoring domestic communication
without a warrant.

Maybe but that's not stopping anything. It's still happening and will
continue to.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 21:03:13 -0600, Dean Hoffman
" wrote:

On 12/18/13 8:28 PM, Irreverent Maximus wrote:
On 12/18/2013 8:14 PM, wrote:


WTF are you talking about, kook?


My guess is that he is talking about a judge that ruled, a couple of
days ago, that the NSA is breaking the Constitutional rights of
American citizens (4th Amendment) by monitoring domestic communication
without a warrant.



But on the other hand a Texas court ruled warrants can be based on a
"prediction of a future crime".
Article he http://preview.tinyurl.com/l7pwjxc

That headline is *very* misleading. They were breaking the law. The
only issue I has with it is that they received the warrant *after* the
search. They're supposed to identify what they're looking for
(probably cause) *before* they search.