Chris French wrote:

In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes

But that minor thing is well worth it to just being able to start up,
push a button, wait 30 seconds and clear the screen with the wipers.
Esp. on a DII were reaching to the middle of the screen with a
scraper is a bit of stretch.

+1 and some more.

Have one on the Galaxy, had one on the Mondeo, as you say does the job
well. And can't say I've ever found the fine wires an issue either.

Wouldn't be without it.

It gave me a certain satisfaction that my Mondeo had a heated
screen, but my boss, who had a company Jag (which at that time
made it also a Ford) had to scrape his.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

On Wed, 26 Nov 2014 08:00:05 +0000, Chris J Dixon
wrote:

Chris French wrote:

In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes

But that minor thing is well worth it to just being able to start up,
push a button, wait 30 seconds and clear the screen with the wipers.
Esp. on a DII were reaching to the middle of the screen with a
scraper is a bit of stretch.

+1 and some more.

Have one on the Galaxy, had one on the Mondeo, as you say does the job
well. And can't say I've ever found the fine wires an issue either.

Wouldn't be without it.

It gave me a certain satisfaction that my Mondeo had a heated
screen, but my boss, who had a company Jag (which at that time
made it also a Ford) had to scrape his.


Back in the days when I was a wage slave, I found the most effective
way to de-ice the glass on early morning winter journeys was to use a
1 litre jug of warm water (about 40 deg C).

It was extremely effective at de-icing the windscreen, rear screen
and side window glass, had the benefir of being cheaper than consuming
several cans of de-icing spray each winter as well as putting some
heat into the glass[1] which eliminated the problem of condensation
during the first few minutes it took for the demister air to get above
freezing.

The can of de-icer would last several winter seasons since it was
only used on rare occasions when I was remote from a source of warm
water and had an urgent need to quickly de-ice the glass.

[1] the big problem with de-icing spray is that it chills the glass
even further, especially if you start off before clearing the excess
away with the windscreen wipers.
--
J B Good

On Tuesday, 25 November 2014 19:13:05 UTC, Dave Liquorice wrote:
IIRC heated screens are only found on Fords and Landrovers, something
to do with licencing/patents?

High end Jags too. Although they all (first few years of them( had to be replaced under warranty. I think they had a "cracking if turned on cold" problem.

On Tuesday, 25 November 2014 16:36:14 UTC, DerbyBorn wrote:
Remember the terrible Volkswagen 411? This had a auxilliary Eberspacher
heater fitted.

Yes - a student friend from Germany had one. They weren't a standard fit, just the cold parts of Europe.

Trying to get spares for it in the UK was about as easy as you might expect.. It has a heat exchanger component they describe (in badly translated English) as a "radiator". Yes, you have to phone up the VW main dealer and order "a radiator for a Beetle" - see how far you get with that.

In the end I got the bits from Edmunds Walker. Dad had a haulage business and one of his trucks had a diesel cab heater. Deal with Eberspacher and it was all no problem.

Andy Dingley wrote:

Dave Liquorice wrote:

IIRC heated screens are only found on Fords and Landrovers, something
to do with licencing/patents?

High end Jags too.

I think I noticed one as an option on a Passat recently

/sm_jamieson
This year we have a little one to take to the child minders so hectic mornings, and I have a diesel car which is slower to heat up than a petrol car. So I was thinking of some type of auxhilliary heater that can get things going. Any recommendations? - most of the 12V lighter socket ones seem to have poor reviews. /q

??? Seriously :-) :-)

How far away is the child catchers?!

Are you transporting it nude?!

Let it live man, fuxk the heater! windows down, plenty swearing at cyclists, fag on, park on yellow zig zags at school, ffs give it a chance to look forward to 'granddad's car trips'... Christ you'll be leaning on the gp to dish out antibiotics for a cold soon if you don't man up.....

Jim K

On Wednesday, November 26, 2014 6:27:34 PM UTC, Andy Dingley wrote:
On Tuesday, 25 November 2014 16:36:14 UTC, DerbyBorn wrote:
Remember the terrible Volkswagen 411? This had a auxilliary Eberspacher
heater fitted.

Yes - a student friend from Germany had one. They weren't a standard fit, just the cold parts of Europe.

Trying to get spares for it in the UK was about as easy as you might expect. It has a heat exchanger component they describe (in badly translated English) as a "radiator". Yes, you have to phone up the VW main dealer and order "a radiator for a Beetle" - see how far you get with that.

In the end I got the bits from Edmunds Walker. Dad had a haulage business and one of his trucks had a diesel cab heater. Deal with Eberspacher and it was all no problem.

Didn't BMW once offer a heat retaining lump of aluminium which once warmed up by a short run retained sufficient heat over night to give a comfortable car a.s.a.p.

Wonder how effective it was.

fred wrote
Andy Dingley wrote
DerbyBorn wrote

Remember the terrible Volkswagen 411?
This had a auxilliary Eberspacher heater fitted.

Yes - a student friend from Germany had one. They
weren't a standard fit, just the cold parts of Europe.

Trying to get spares for it in the UK was about as easy
as you might expect. It has a heat exchanger component
they describe (in badly translated English) as a "radiator".
Yes, you have to phone up the VW main dealer and order
"a radiator for a Beetle" - see how far you get with that.

In the end I got the bits from Edmunds Walker. Dad had
a haulage business and one of his trucks had a diesel cab
heater. Deal with Eberspacher and it was all no problem.

Didn't BMW once offer a heat retaining lump of aluminium
which once warmed up by a short run retained sufficient
heat over night to give a comfortable car a.s.a.p.

Wonder how effective it was.

Bet it was hopeless and that is why you don't see that anymore.

Heatbanks have ****ing great lump of cast iron in them and
they get heated to a hell of a lot higher temperature than you
ever get in a car.

On Wed, 26 Nov 2014 14:13:23 +0000, Johny B Good wrote:

Back in the days when I was a wage slave, I found the most effective
way to de-ice the glass on early morning winter journeys was to use a
1 litre jug of warm water (about 40 deg C).

Depends how cold it has been. Air temp approaching -10 C under clear
skies and the windscreen and frost will be approaching -20 C. Luke
warm water has been known to freeze and with the glass at -20 ish you
have a 60 C temperature differance. The thermal shock might not be
healthy for the windscreen...

Long handled window cleaner/squeege, can of squirt, shove any snow
off with window tool, squirt if required, there can be frost under
the snow depending on which came first, squirt is just a line back
and forth once along the top of the screen, do other windows and
lights as required, screen is probably now clear and the wipers will
suffice.

[1] the big problem with de-icing spray is that it chills the glass
even further, especially if you start off before clearing the excess
away with the windscreen wipers.

True enough but provided you do clear the screen of the sub zero
slush it'll be dry and thus nothing to freeze on it(*). I do clear
the screen before setting off, unlike some people who seem to think a
hole the size of letter box is a "clear screen".

(*) Problems come if there is a bit of freezing fog about and that
builds up on the screen enough to require the wipers before the
heated screen has got enough heat into the glass. Put the wipers on
and you smear opaque ice across the screen, not good...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 00:30:05 -0800 (PST), fred wrote:

Didn't BMW once offer a heat retaining lump of aluminium which once warmed up by a short run retained sufficient heat over night to give a comfortable car a.s.a.p.

Wonder how effective it was.

There was a retrofit heatbank offered, made some garage inventor: a Thermos with
sodium acetate. Sodium acetate is the stuff used in those heating pads that warm
as the salt crystalizes. It was said it'd keep warm overnight in winter,
providing faster starting, quicker heating etc. while being passive and just
plumbed into the coolant circuit.

Was on one of those "cool inventions" programs, never heard of it again.


Thomas Prufer

In article ,
fred wrote:
Didn't BMW once offer a heat retaining lump of aluminium which once
warmed up by a short run retained sufficient heat over night to give a
comfortable car a.s.a.p.

Wonder how effective it was.

Never heard of that one. My BMW has a 'residual heat' function that allows
the heater to be used without the engine running. For say passengers when
the driver nips into the shops or whatever. Gives about 15 minutes of
heat. Uses an electric pump. But obviously only when the engine was hot.

--
*I'm not a paranoid, deranged millionaire. Dammit, I'm a billionaire.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 27/11/2014 10:00, Thomas Prufer wrote:
On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 00:30:05 -0800 (PST), fred wrote:

Didn't BMW once offer a heat retaining lump of aluminium which once warmed up by a short run retained sufficient heat over night to give a comfortable car a.s.a.p.

Wonder how effective it was.

There was a retrofit heatbank offered, made some garage inventor: a Thermos with
sodium acetate. Sodium acetate is the stuff used in those heating pads that warm
as the salt crystalizes. It was said it'd keep warm overnight in winter,
providing faster starting, quicker heating etc. while being passive and just
plumbed into the coolant circuit.

Was on one of those "cool inventions" programs, never heard of it again.


Thomas Prufer


I remember something like that too (but I thought it was sodium
thiosulphate) - looked like a big oil filter cannister on the sump of a
Volvo.

Search on "block heater" - there are electric after-market options and
they are often standard in cold climates, using engine fuel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_heater

--
Reentrant

On Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:07:02 AM UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
fred wrote:
Didn't BMW once offer a heat retaining lump of aluminium which once
warmed up by a short run retained sufficient heat over night to give a
comfortable car a.s.a.p.

Wonder how effective it was.

Never heard of that one. My BMW has a 'residual heat' function that allows
the heater to be used without the engine running. For say passengers when
the driver nips into the shops or whatever. Gives about 15 minutes of
heat. Uses an electric pump. But obviously only when the engine was hot.

--
*I'm not a paranoid, deranged millionaire. Dammit, I'm a billionaire.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

ISTR it being offered as an extra on the 5 series about 20 years ago.

It was a costly extra which may account for it non continuance. Perhaps other, colder, markets found it of benefit

On Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:07:02 AM UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
fred wrote:
Didn't BMW once offer a heat retaining lump of aluminium which once
warmed up by a short run retained sufficient heat over night to give a
comfortable car a.s.a.p.

Wonder how effective it was.

Never heard of that one. My BMW has a 'residual heat' function that allows
the heater to be used without the engine running. For say passengers when
the driver nips into the shops or whatever. Gives about 15 minutes of
heat. Uses an electric pump. But obviously only when the engine was hot.

--
*I'm not a paranoid, deranged millionaire. Dammit, I'm a billionaire.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Canada'sanswer

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...productDetails

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/au...-0300004p.html

https://www.acklandsgrainger.com/AGI...&Ntt=wolverine

In article ,
fred wrote:
Never heard of that one. My BMW has a 'residual heat' function that
allows the heater to be used without the engine running. For say
passengers when the driver nips into the shops or whatever. Gives
about 15 minutes of heat. Uses an electric pump. But obviously only
when the engine was hot.


ISTR it being offered as an extra on the 5 series about 20 years ago.

Well my BMW is a 5 Series and getting on for 20 years old and fully loaded.
I had the two previous 5 Series too.

--
*Caution: I drive like you do.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, November 26, 2014 11:30:19 PM UTC, JimK wrote:
/sm_jamieson
This year we have a little one to take to the child minders so hectic mornings, and I have a diesel car which is slower to heat up than a petrol car.. So I was thinking of some type of auxhilliary heater that can get things going. Any recommendations? - most of the 12V lighter socket ones seem to have poor reviews. /q

??? Seriously :-) :-)

How far away is the child catchers?!

Are you transporting it nude?!

Let it live man, fuxk the heater! windows down, plenty swearing at cyclists, fag on, park on yellow zig zags at school, ffs give it a chance to look forward to 'granddad's car trips'... Christ you'll be leaning on the gp to dish out antibiotics for a cold soon if you don't man up.....

Jim K

I was thinking about the hassle of scraping ice rather than the little one freezing, but I failed to state that !
But I like your rant.
Simon.

On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 09:38:21 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Nov 2014 14:13:23 +0000, Johny B Good wrote:

Back in the days when I was a wage slave, I found the most effective
way to de-ice the glass on early morning winter journeys was to use a
1 litre jug of warm water (about 40 deg C).

Depends how cold it has been. Air temp approaching -10 C under clear
skies and the windscreen and frost will be approaching -20 C. Luke
warm water has been known to freeze and with the glass at -20 ish you
have a 60 C temperature differance. The thermal shock might not be
healthy for the windscreen...

Thermal shock was one of my concerns. Normally I'd pour a gentle
trickle across the top of the glass to limit the heat transfer rate,
allowing more water to pour onto the glass after the first few
seconds.

If it had been an extremely cold night, I'd start the pour from just
above the windscreen so it hit the metalwork of the roof first before
going onto the glass itself to reduce the initial temperature of the
water as it hit the glass (I tended to use slightly hotter water on
such early mornings to compensate so I knew to avoid applying the
water immediately to the glass.

I must have been doing it right since in the several years I'd been
practicing this de-icing technique, I enjoyed the good fortune of not
shattering the glass by thermal shock (I'l admit to this possibly
being simply my 'dumb luck' :-)


Long handled window cleaner/squeege, can of squirt, shove any snow
off with window tool, squirt if required, there can be frost under
the snow depending on which came first, squirt is just a line back
and forth once along the top of the screen, do other windows and
lights as required, screen is probably now clear and the wipers will
suffice.

[1] the big problem with de-icing spray is that it chills the glass
even further, especially if you start off before clearing the excess
away with the windscreen wipers.

True enough but provided you do clear the screen of the sub zero
slush it'll be dry and thus nothing to freeze on it(*). I do clear
the screen before setting off, unlike some people who seem to think a
hole the size of letter box is a "clear screen".

I could never figure out the mentality of such folk other than the
obvious one of laziness winning out over safety. When I set off on
such freezing cold mornings, _all_ my window glass looked as clear as
if I'd just driven the car out of a heated garage. :-) This applied
whether it was just frost or it was both frost _and_ snow.


(*) Problems come if there is a bit of freezing fog about and that
builds up on the screen enough to require the wipers before the
heated screen has got enough heat into the glass. Put the wipers on
and you smear opaque ice across the screen, not good...

This was the _other_ advantage of using the warm water de-icing
technique. Careful application of warm water neatly addresses issues
that de-icing fluid simply leaves unresolved.
--
J B Good

On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 06:41:38 -0800 (PST), sm_jamieson
wrote:

On Wednesday, November 26, 2014 11:30:19 PM UTC, JimK wrote:
/sm_jamieson
This year we have a little one to take to the child minders so hectic mornings, and I have a diesel car which is slower to heat up than a petrol car. So I was thinking of some type of auxhilliary heater that can get things going. Any recommendations? - most of the 12V lighter socket ones seem to have poor reviews. /q

??? Seriously :-) :-)

How far away is the child catchers?!

Are you transporting it nude?!

Let it live man, fuxk the heater! windows down, plenty swearing at cyclists, fag on, park on yellow zig zags at school, ffs give it a chance to look forward to 'granddad's car trips'... Christ you'll be leaning on the gp to dish out antibiotics for a cold soon if you don't man up.....

Jim K

I was thinking about the hassle of scraping ice rather than the little one freezing, but I failed to state that !
But I like your rant.
Simon.

Electric Patio heater with timer aimed at the screen then.

G.Harman

On Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:06:58 PM UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
fred wrote:
Never heard of that one. My BMW has a 'residual heat' function that
allows the heater to be used without the engine running. For say
passengers when the driver nips into the shops or whatever. Gives
about 15 minutes of heat. Uses an electric pump. But obviously only
when the engine was hot.


ISTR it being offered as an extra on the 5 series about 20 years ago.

Well my BMW is a 5 Series and getting on for 20 years old and fully loaded.
I had the two previous 5 Series too.

--
*Caution: I drive like you do.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Did you buy them from new and spec them up yourself? I distinctly remember specing up a new 525 in either 1997 or 2005 and this being an option.

In message , Johny B Good
writes
On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 09:38:21 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Nov 2014 14:13:23 +0000, Johny B Good wrote:

Back in the days when I was a wage slave, I found the most effective
way to de-ice the glass on early morning winter journeys was to use a
1 litre jug of warm water (about 40 deg C).

Depends how cold it has been. Air temp approaching -10 C under clear
skies and the windscreen and frost will be approaching -20 C. Luke
warm water has been known to freeze and with the glass at -20 ish you
have a 60 C temperature differance. The thermal shock might not be
healthy for the windscreen...

Thermal shock was one of my concerns. Normally I'd pour a gentle
trickle across the top of the glass to limit the heat transfer rate,
allowing more water to pour onto the glass after the first few seconds.

If it had been an extremely cold night, I'd start the pour from just
above the windscreen so it hit the metalwork of the roof first before
going onto the glass itself to reduce the initial temperature of the
water as it hit the glass (I tended to use slightly hotter water on
such early mornings to compensate so I knew to avoid applying the water
immediately to the glass.

I must have been doing it right since in the several years I'd been
practicing this de-icing technique, I enjoyed the good fortune of not
shattering the glass by thermal shock (I'l admit to this possibly being
simply my 'dumb luck' :-)


I have used that technique for some years on different cars (not bother
on the heated windscreen.

Never had any problems with screens cracking or anything (even with
existing chips etc.).

I have had the water refreeze when the windscreen was esp. cold, or the
water not warm enough but another jug of warm water sorted it..

I think my FIL does the same and he has never had a problem
--
Chris French

In article ,
fred wrote:
On Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:06:58 PM UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
fred wrote:
Never heard of that one. My BMW has a 'residual heat' function that
allows the heater to be used without the engine running. For say
passengers when the driver nips into the shops or whatever. Gives
about 15 minutes of heat. Uses an electric pump. But obviously only
when the engine was hot.


ISTR it being offered as an extra on the 5 series about 20 years ago.

Well my BMW is a 5 Series and getting on for 20 years old and fully
loaded. I had the two previous 5 Series too.


Did you buy them from new and spec them up yourself? I distinctly
remember specing up a new 525 in either 1997 or 2005 and this being an
option.

Not quite new - but did see the cats. with all the extras. I'm also a
member of an E39 forum with worldwide members and not heard it mentioned
on there either.

--
*You're never too old to learn something stupid.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Well I specced and bought 2 new 525's . !992 and 1997 . Well actually the last was a 523 and she complained I had downgraded her. Useless explaining the engines were the same. 523 was less than 525 and that was that. And I distinctly remember this as an option one one of these cars. They were superb cars. Completely un-flusterable no matter how you drove them.Convinced me to switch to BMWs and I'm driving them ever since.

In article ,
fred wrote:
Well I specced and bought 2 new 525's . !992 and 1997 . Well actually
the last was a 523 and she complained I had downgraded her. Useless
explaining the engines were the same. 523 was less than 525 and that was
that. And I distinctly remember this as an option one one of these cars.
They were superb cars. Completely un-flusterable no matter how you drove
them.Convinced me to switch to BMWs and I'm driving them ever since.

Are you certain you're not confusing it with the residual heat function?

Did you have this on your car?

Something which could retain a reasonable amount of heat overnight would
likely be very large. So where was it fitted?

--
*White with a hint of M42*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 17:07:43 +0000, Chris French
wrote:

In message , Johny B Good
writes
On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 09:38:21 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Nov 2014 14:13:23 +0000, Johny B Good wrote:

Back in the days when I was a wage slave, I found the most effective
way to de-ice the glass on early morning winter journeys was to use a
1 litre jug of warm water (about 40 deg C).

Depends how cold it has been. Air temp approaching -10 C under clear
skies and the windscreen and frost will be approaching -20 C. Luke
warm water has been known to freeze and with the glass at -20 ish you
have a 60 C temperature differance. The thermal shock might not be
healthy for the windscreen...

Thermal shock was one of my concerns. Normally I'd pour a gentle
trickle across the top of the glass to limit the heat transfer rate,
allowing more water to pour onto the glass after the first few seconds.

If it had been an extremely cold night, I'd start the pour from just
above the windscreen so it hit the metalwork of the roof first before
going onto the glass itself to reduce the initial temperature of the
water as it hit the glass (I tended to use slightly hotter water on
such early mornings to compensate so I knew to avoid applying the water
immediately to the glass.

I must have been doing it right since in the several years I'd been
practicing this de-icing technique, I enjoyed the good fortune of not
shattering the glass by thermal shock (I'l admit to this possibly being
simply my 'dumb luck' :-)


I have used that technique for some years on different cars (not bother
on the heated windscreen.

Never had any problems with screens cracking or anything (even with
existing chips etc.).

I have had the water refreeze when the windscreen was esp. cold, or the
water not warm enough but another jug of warm water sorted it..

I think my FIL does the same and he has never had a problem

Thanks for sharing that. It's reassuring to know that I wasn't the
only one 'taking my chances' with this de-icing technique. :-)
--
J B Good

On 29/11/2014 00:07, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Are you certain you're not confusing it with the residual heat function?

Did you have this on your car?

Something which could retain a reasonable amount of heat overnight would
likely be very large. So where was it fitted?

There's quite a few hits on t'interweb for "bmw latent heat store",
which is described as an option. Possibly latent heat accumulator.

On Saturday, 29 November 2014 00:11:53 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
fred wrote:
Well I specced and bought 2 new 525's . !992 and 1997 . Well actually
the last was a 523 and she complained I had downgraded her. Useless
explaining the engines were the same. 523 was less than 525 and that was
that. And I distinctly remember this as an option one one of these cars..
They were superb cars. Completely un-flusterable no matter how you drove
them.Convinced me to switch to BMWs and I'm driving them ever since.

Are you certain you're not confusing it with the residual heat function?

Did you have this on your car?

Something which could retain a reasonable amount of heat overnight would
likely be very large. So where was it fitted?

--
*White with a hint of M42*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Well I was beginning to doubt my memory and having made various searches on Google and turning up nothing I finally emailed a query to BMW U.K.

However I see from the following post that the estimable Clive George did a search on "BMW latent heat store" and turned up some interesting results which would appear to confirm my memory. Thank heavens for that. My memory is well shot as it is but I don't think I've reached the stage of imagining things just yet.

On Saturday, 29 November 2014 02:43:01 UTC, Clive George wrote:
On 29/11/2014 00:07, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Are you certain you're not confusing it with the residual heat function?

Did you have this on your car?

Something which could retain a reasonable amount of heat overnight would
likely be very large. So where was it fitted?

There's quite a few hits on t'interweb for "bmw latent heat store",
which is described as an option. Possibly latent heat accumulator.

Thank you Clive George. You've restored my sanity. I was beginning to think I had imagined it.

On Sat, 29 Nov 2014 01:09:29 -0800, fred wrote:

Well I specced and bought 2 new 525's . !992 and 1997 . Well
actually the last was a 523 and she complained I had downgraded her.
Useless explaining the engines were the same. 523 was less than 525
and that was that. And I distinctly remember this as an option one
one of these cars.
They were superb cars. Completely un-flusterable no matter how you
drove them.Convinced me to switch to BMWs and I'm driving them ever
since.

Are you certain you're not confusing it with the residual heat
function?

Did you have this on your car?

Something which could retain a reasonable amount of heat overnight
would likely be very large. So where was it fitted?

Well I was beginning to doubt my memory and having made various searches
on Google and turning up nothing I finally emailed a query to BMW U.K.

However I see from the following post that the estimable Clive George
did a search on "BMW latent heat store" and turned up some interesting
results which would appear to confirm my memory. Thank heavens for that.
My memory is well shot as it is but I don't think I've reached the stage
of imagining things just yet.

googles a bit
Cold country only option.
Requires specific bodyshell.
Fits into RH side transmission tunnel.
Requires different trim, and leaves very little space under trim.

Sounds like something that'd be LHD only, tbh.

On Saturday, 29 November 2014 09:40:16 UTC, Adrian wrote:
On Sat, 29 Nov 2014 01:09:29 -0800, fred wrote:

Well I specced and bought 2 new 525's . !992 and 1997 . Well
actually the last was a 523 and she complained I had downgraded her.
Useless explaining the engines were the same. 523 was less than 525
and that was that. And I distinctly remember this as an option one
one of these cars.
They were superb cars. Completely un-flusterable no matter how you
drove them.Convinced me to switch to BMWs and I'm driving them ever
since.

Are you certain you're not confusing it with the residual heat
function?

Did you have this on your car?

Something which could retain a reasonable amount of heat overnight
would likely be very large. So where was it fitted?

Well I was beginning to doubt my memory and having made various searches
on Google and turning up nothing I finally emailed a query to BMW U.K.

However I see from the following post that the estimable Clive George
did a search on "BMW latent heat store" and turned up some interesting
results which would appear to confirm my memory. Thank heavens for that.
My memory is well shot as it is but I don't think I've reached the stage
of imagining things just yet.

googles a bit
Cold country only option.
Requires specific bodyshell.
Fits into RH side transmission tunnel.
Requires different trim, and leaves very little space under trim.

Sounds like something that'd be LHD only, tbh.

Well I certainly wasn't speccing a LHD car when I saw it on an options list.

In article ,
fred wrote:
Are you certain you're not confusing it with the residual heat
function?

Did you have this on your car?

Something which could retain a reasonable amount of heat overnight
would likely be very large. So where was it fitted?

Well I was beginning to doubt my memory and having made various searches
on Google and turning up nothing I finally emailed a query to BMW U.K.

However I see from the following post that the estimable Clive George
did a search on "BMW latent heat store" and turned up some interesting
results which would appear to confirm my memory. Thank heavens for that.
My memory is well shot as it is but I don't think I've reached the stage
of imagining things just yet.

Right - the mystery is solved. It's something which appeared in 2001 which
explains why it was not on the options list for my '97 model.

It's not a lump of aluminium but a chemical reaction based on a salt
solution.

--
*If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Saturday, 29 November 2014 11:30:37 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
fred wrote:
Are you certain you're not confusing it with the residual heat
function?

Did you have this on your car?

Something which could retain a reasonable amount of heat overnight
would likely be very large. So where was it fitted?

Well I was beginning to doubt my memory and having made various searches
on Google and turning up nothing I finally emailed a query to BMW U.K.

However I see from the following post that the estimable Clive George
did a search on "BMW latent heat store" and turned up some interesting
results which would appear to confirm my memory. Thank heavens for that.
My memory is well shot as it is but I don't think I've reached the stage
of imagining things just yet.

Right - the mystery is solved. It's something which appeared in 2001 which
explains why it was not on the options list for my '97 model.

It's not a lump of aluminium but a chemical reaction based on a salt
solution.

--
*If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Nope. Doesn't solve the mystery for me. The last 5 series I bought was in 1997 and that is when I remember it from And I do not remember anything about chemical reactions what I remember was along the lines of a block of aluminium.

Perhaps BMW U.K. an elucidate.

On Sat, 29 Nov 2014 11:30:20 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

It's not a lump of aluminium but a chemical reaction based on a salt
solution.

Sodium acetate solution phase change, releasing heat of crystallization.


Thomas Prufer

On Sat, 29 Nov 2014 01:55:58 +0000, Johny B Good
wrote:

I have had the water refreeze when the windscreen was esp. cold, or the
water not warm enough but another jug of warm water sorted it..

I think my FIL does the same and he has never had a problem

Thanks for sharing that. It's reassuring to know that I wasn't the
only one 'taking my chances' with this de-icing technique. :-)

Ditto that. Never had a problem with it.

On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 09:38:21 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

Air temp approaching -10 C under clear
skies and the windscreen and frost will be approaching -20 C.

What?

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote
Dave Liquorice wrote

Air temp approaching -10 C under clear skies and
the windscreen and frost will be approaching -20 C.

What?

The temperature of the ground frost will be quite
a bit lower than the air temp in that situation.

On Sat, 29 Nov 2014 18:01:00 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

I have had the water refreeze when the windscreen was esp. cold, or the
water not warm enough but another jug of warm water sorted it..

I think my FIL does the same and he has never had a problem

Thanks for sharing that. It's reassuring to know that I wasn't the
only one 'taking my chances' with this de-icing technique. :-)

Ditto that. Never had a problem with it.

Likewise here. Even on heavily-frozen windscreens with pre-existing chips
and cracks, I've never had them spread.

The really nice side-effect is that it warms the glass, so helps reduce
misting on the inside.

On Sat, 29 Nov 2014 11:30:20 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
fred wrote:
Are you certain you're not confusing it with the residual heat
function?

Did you have this on your car?

Something which could retain a reasonable amount of heat overnight
would likely be very large. So where was it fitted?

Well I was beginning to doubt my memory and having made various searches
on Google and turning up nothing I finally emailed a query to BMW U.K.

However I see from the following post that the estimable Clive George
did a search on "BMW latent heat store" and turned up some interesting
results which would appear to confirm my memory. Thank heavens for that.
My memory is well shot as it is but I don't think I've reached the stage
of imagining things just yet.

Right - the mystery is solved. It's something which appeared in 2001 which
explains why it was not on the options list for my '97 model.

It's not a lump of aluminium but a chemical reaction based on a salt
solution.

That utilises the latent heat of melting (in reverse) or phase change
which is the only better alternative to simply using water as a heat
store (water possesses a much higher specific heat than any solid or
liquid metal, typically an order of magnitude better).

Using the latent heat of a salt offers a much better solution than
simply reducing the temperature of a store of near boiling water by 20
or 30 degrees since the temperature stays constant at the transition
temperature of the phase change for the material used until all the
material (the salt solution in this case) has solidified before the
temperature starts to drop again when all the material has solidified.
The salt solution pack has to be well insulated if it's to act as a
heat store for any reasonable length of time (say 24 hours for a 50%
loss of the stored latent heat).

The salt is formulated to have a melting point just below the normal
engine coolant temperature. It might be plumbed into the coolant
circuit so that it's part of the bypass circulation created by the
thermostat's normal operation that prevents flow into the radiator
until the engine is up to temperature or it might have its own
thermostat set just below the temperature setting of the normal engine
thermostat in order to minimise warm up time from a 'totally cold
start'.

In order for this to act as an engine pre-warming feature, an extra
electric circulating pump will be required to transfer the stored heat
into the engine block via either its own independent circulatory
system or simply to set up circulation using the normal coolant
circuit.

In either case, the flow could include the passenger compartment
heater to provide both cabin heat and a supply of warm demisting
airflow. I'm not acquainted with the details of any realworld examples
so I'm just making an educated guess at how this particular cat gets
skinned.

I've no doubt that there'll be several variations on this theme
amongst the different car manufacturers and/or variations within each
manufacturers' model range. At its most basic it could be used,
without a pre-warming feature, simply as a means of accelerating the
normal engine warmup period

A more sophisticated version my include the extra complication of an
auxiliary electric pump and plumbing to pre-warm the engine to save
wear and tear on both the engine and the starter motor as well as
offer the comfort of instant cabin and demister heat during the
several minutes of the pre-heating phase. It will be interesting to
see exactly what variations in auxillary heating options are actually
available.
--
J B Good

On Sat, 29 Nov 2014 18:21:58 +0000 (UTC), Adrian wrote:

I think my FIL does the same and he has never had a problem

Thanks for sharing that. It's reassuring to know that I wasn't
the
only one 'taking my chances' with this de-icing technique. :-)

Ditto that. Never had a problem with it.

Likewise here. Even on heavily-frozen windscreens with pre-existing
chips and cracks, I've never had them spread.

I guess the warning is for the brain dead who boil a kettle ful of
water take it straight outside a lob it overe the screen. Rather than
luke warm and carefully applied. Water straight form the cold tap
would proably work just as well. When it's getting close to or below
the ground frost point they water football pitches to keep 'em warm
and unfrozen.

The really nice side-effect is that it warms the glass, so helps reduce
misting on the inside.

We regulary get frost on the inside...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sat, 29 Nov 2014 18:02:29 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

Air temp approaching -10 C under clear skies and the windscreen
and
frost will be approaching -20 C.

What?

A clear night sky is at around -40 C. Thermo dynamics mean that the
different temperatures try to equalise but space is a bit big and
there isn't enough heat in the screen to warm up space. So the screen
just radiates heat into space and cools and cools and cools...

Bit of cloud cover reflects the radiation back keeping things warm.

It's perfectly possible to get a hefty ground frost with the air temp
remaining above zero.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sat, 29 Nov 2014 22:47:37 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:




luke warm and carefully applied. Water straight form the cold tap
would proably work just as well. When it's getting close to or below
the ground frost point they water football pitches to keep 'em warm
and unfrozen.

That's how water meadows used to work,it wasn't to make the grass grow
like rice in paddy fields. A thin layer of water was trickled over the
meadows by the "Drowners" and this warmed the ground enough to make
the grass grow earlier in the season .

G.Harman