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Default Spontaneous shattering of double glazed panels

On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 14:27:04 +0100, John Williamson wrote:

But I've also witnessed a Special Effects guy having quite some
difficulty shattering a toughed car windscreen. He started very
cautious with gentle taps from a small hammer and cold chisel, end

up
with a lump hammer and really giving it some...


That sounds more like a laminated screen,


This was quite a while ago and definatly not laminated. It collapsed
under its own weight but just enough remained in the frame.

which is often 2 sheets of toughened glass with a sheet of plastic
laminated in the middle.


A very thick and very tough sheet of plastic as well. 2 mm thick or
there abouts for the busted laminated screens I've seen.

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"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 09:45:39 +0100, harryagain wrote:

I'm amazed about the roof panel.
Only the lower panels need to be toughened glass.
You might ask about this aspect.


Does seem odd.

They are here as a safety thing, ie if someone/child accidently breaks
one, less chnce of getting cut up.


By falling/pushed against it. You don't want to do that with ordinary
glass that breaks into loads of razor sharp daggers. You#ll stil get
cuts from the toughend granuals but you won't sever arteries of
ligaments.

They are allegedly harder to break than normal glass.


It's funny stuff toughed glass, it's understress all the time and
when it goes it goes. The trigger can be pretty small, a nice sharp
automatic centre punch can do it. But I've also witnessed a Special
Effects guy having quite some difficulty shattering a toughed car
windscreen. He started very cautious with gentle taps from a small
hammer and cold chisel, end up with a lump hammer and really giving
it some...


When I was buying my toughened glass patio doors for the house
in the early 70s, the operation flogging them made a big play of the
fact that they are very difficult to get thru even with a sledge hammer.

What they didn't mention is that a sharp stone can do them in.

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Default Spontaneous shattering of double glazed panels

On Friday, July 18, 2014 2:42:34 PM UTC+1, Stephen wrote:
On 17/07/2014 20:44, TonyB wrote:

replying to Dave Chapman , TonyB wrote:


dave wrote:




Hi all, We purchased an add-on conservatory from one of the large


UK suppliers about four years ago and since then we have really


enjoyed all of the benefits of a warm bright place to sit and relax


even when the weather outside is far from ideal. However, our


enjoyment has not been without its downside since one morning about 18


months ago when we went into the conservatory we noticed that the


inner glass of one of the many double-glazed panels had shattered into


'a million' pieces for no obvious reason. Since our conservatory


came with a 10 year warranty, we contacted the company, explained the


problem to them, which they accepted without any fuss, and they then


arranged for one of their fitters to come and replace the panel, which


they did a couple of weeks later. All was fine for another six


months then the inner glass of a different double-glazed panel


shattered overnight in a similar way. The conmpany responded in


exactly the same way and the new faulty panel was replaced under


warranty. A couple of days ago we were sitting quietly in the


conservatory when there was a loud bang and the inner glass of one of


the other double-glazed roof panels exploded and loads of fragments of


glass showered down around us. Now, for a third time, we have had to


contact the company who, once again and without asking any questions,


have ordered a new panel which will be installed during the next


couple of weeks. Wen I spoke to the company I asked if this was a


very common occurrence and was just told that 'yes, it happens'.


Should I be reassured with that casual answer? Why has it always been


the INNER of the panels that fails? Nothing can have dropped onto the


conservatory roof from above and we don't play any hard-ball sports in


the conservatory. All very strange. I've done a very close


inspection of the structure of the conservatory, paying particular


attention to the frames around the glass panels to see if any of them


have become distorted but I haven't seen anything that could explain


these three glass breakages. I'm grateful that the faulty panels


have been replaced (to date) without any hassle from the company and


at least I've got another seven years of warranty remaining so can


hope that any manufacturing faults in the glass of the remaining


panels will have come to light (pun intended!), one way or another,


before that warranty expires. I've done a lot of Googling on the


subject and discovered that spontaneous shattering of toughened glass


panels for no obvious reason is very common, both in the UK and around


the world. Sudden temperature changes don't seem to be the cause - the


general view seems to be that it just happens sometimes. One


explanation offered is that small impurities were in the glass during


the tempering process and these can 'grow' over time (months or years)


to a point when they cause the glass to shatter suddenly. I'd be


very interested to hear the comments of anyone else in this NG who


have experienced similar spontaneous shattering of double-glazed


panels and how the suppliers of the faulty panels have reacted. ATB


- Dave.








Hi Dave,




We have experienced exactly the same thing. We also have a conservatory


from a major supplier, fitted just under 4 years ago. Last June, we came


home to find the inside pane of one of the large glass side panels


completely shattered. No-one was in the house at the time. About two weeks


later another panel shattered in exactly the same fashion. Both panels


went on relatively cool days, so heat excessive heat expansion could not


be the cause.


To date the company has replaced the two panels without question. However;


last Sunday there was a terrific bang and we were horrified to find a


third panel has shattered - again the inside pane on another relatively


cool day and again, fortunately no-one was in the conservatory at the


time. This time the site manager visited and has quibbled about the


guarantee. He did not offer any kind of information, or have any idea as


to the cause, other than 'it happens' - more than that, he seemed


unwilling to undertake any investigation - not at all re-assuring. We are


pushing to get the panel replaced under the guarantee, as we think it is


down to impurities within the glass and is therefore clearly a


manufacturing fault.


We are not all reassured that it won't happen again. Each shattering has


left a fine carpet of very sharp glass fragments on the floor, even though


the panel has stayed intact in the frame. I am not reassured that it is


not potentially dangerous to either us, or our pet dog who likes to soak


up the warmth. We have asked for a full investigation, but it doesn't seem


as though this will be forthcoming.


I would be very interested to hear of other's experiences.




Kind regards,




Tony






I have had this happen with my conservatory....



It turned out to be subsidence of the dwarf walls, and thus the frames

were distorting, placing the glass under stress and then shattering.


Happened us twice on our last conservatory. Both times it was the inner pane of a roof panel. Twice in about 20 years isn't too bad I suppose.
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Hi TonyB,

I've just spotted your response to my posting and wonder if you'd
like to compare notes and discuss this problem further off the NG,

You can e-mail me directly at

ATB - Dave.

On 17/07/2014 20:44, TonyB wrote:
replying to Dave Chapman , TonyB wrote:
dave wrote:

Hi all, We purchased an add-on conservatory from one of the large
UK suppliers about four years ago and since then we have really
enjoyed all of the benefits of a warm bright place to sit and relax
even when the weather outside is far from ideal. However, our
enjoyment has not been without its downside since one morning about 18
months ago when we went into the conservatory we noticed that the
inner glass of one of the many double-glazed panels had shattered into
'a million' pieces for no obvious reason. Since our conservatory
came with a 10 year warranty, we contacted the company, explained the
problem to them, which they accepted without any fuss, and they then
arranged for one of their fitters to come and replace the panel, which
they did a couple of weeks later. All was fine for another six
months then the inner glass of a different double-glazed panel
shattered overnight in a similar way. The conmpany responded in
exactly the same way and the new faulty panel was replaced under
warranty. A couple of days ago we were sitting quietly in the
conservatory when there was a loud bang and the inner glass of one of
the other double-glazed roof panels exploded and loads of fragments of
glass showered down around us. Now, for a third time, we have had to
contact the company who, once again and without asking any questions,
have ordered a new panel which will be installed during the next
couple of weeks. Wen I spoke to the company I asked if this was a
very common occurrence and was just told that 'yes, it happens'.
Should I be reassured with that casual answer? Why has it always been
the INNER of the panels that fails? Nothing can have dropped onto the
conservatory roof from above and we don't play any hard-ball sports in
the conservatory. All very strange. I've done a very close
inspection of the structure of the conservatory, paying particular
attention to the frames around the glass panels to see if any of them
have become distorted but I haven't seen anything that could explain
these three glass breakages. I'm grateful that the faulty panels
have been replaced (to date) without any hassle from the company and
at least I've got another seven years of warranty remaining so can
hope that any manufacturing faults in the glass of the remaining
panels will have come to light (pun intended!), one way or another,
before that warranty expires. I've done a lot of Googling on the
subject and discovered that spontaneous shattering of toughened glass
panels for no obvious reason is very common, both in the UK and around
the world. Sudden temperature changes don't seem to be the cause - the
general view seems to be that it just happens sometimes. One
explanation offered is that small impurities were in the glass during
the tempering process and these can 'grow' over time (months or years)
to a point when they cause the glass to shatter suddenly. I'd be
very interested to hear the comments of anyone else in this NG who
have experienced similar spontaneous shattering of double-glazed
panels and how the suppliers of the faulty panels have reacted. ATB
- Dave.




Hi Dave,

We have experienced exactly the same thing. We also have a conservatory
from a major supplier, fitted just under 4 years ago. Last June, we came
home to find the inside pane of one of the large glass side panels
completely shattered. No-one was in the house at the time. About two weeks
later another panel shattered in exactly the same fashion. Both panels
went on relatively cool days, so heat excessive heat expansion could not
be the cause.
To date the company has replaced the two panels without question. However;
last Sunday there was a terrific bang and we were horrified to find a
third panel has shattered - again the inside pane on another relatively
cool day and again, fortunately no-one was in the conservatory at the
time. This time the site manager visited and has quibbled about the
guarantee. He did not offer any kind of information, or have any idea as
to the cause, other than 'it happens' - more than that, he seemed
unwilling to undertake any investigation - not at all re-assuring. We are
pushing to get the panel replaced under the guarantee, as we think it is
down to impurities within the glass and is therefore clearly a
manufacturing fault.
We are not all reassured that it won't happen again. Each shattering has
left a fine carpet of very sharp glass fragments on the floor, even though
the panel has stayed intact in the frame. I am not reassured that it is
not potentially dangerous to either us, or our pet dog who likes to soak
up the warmth. We have asked for a full investigation, but it doesn't seem
as though this will be forthcoming.
I would be very interested to hear of other's experiences.

Kind regards,

Tony


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Still trying to contact TonyB,

Hi TonyB,

I read your response to my earlier posting and since there are
similarities between our experiences I'd very much like to compare notes
and discuss this problem further with you off this NG.

Would you e-mail me directly at ?

Many thanks - Dave.




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Default Spontaneous shattering of double glazed panels

On Saturday, 24 May 2014 00:16:28 UTC+1, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 23 May 2014 21:28:18 +0100

Vir Campestris wrote:



On 23/05/2014 14:34, Johny B Good wrote:


trucks --- for the benefit of any confused americans




It's not as if we're talking about carts and trolleys. AFAIK lorry


only has one meaning.




Andy




True, but it is not in the American dictionary. Nor is 'fortnight'. Nor

is 'twice', unbelievably.


Merriam-Webster online has lorry, twice and fortnight. No problems.

rusty
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On Sat, 2 Aug 2014 04:22:42 -0700 (PDT)
therustyone wrote:

On Saturday, 24 May 2014 00:16:28 UTC+1, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 23 May 2014 21:28:18 +0100

Vir Campestris wrote:



On 23/05/2014 14:34, Johny B Good wrote:


trucks --- for the benefit of any confused americans




It's not as if we're talking about carts and trolleys. AFAIK lorry


only has one meaning.




Andy




True, but it is not in the American dictionary. Nor is 'fortnight'.
Nor

is 'twice', unbelievably.


Merriam-Webster online has lorry, twice and fortnight. No problems.

rusty


They may be in the written Dictionary, but they are rarely used, and
many Americans don't know their meanings.

But this thread was abandoned several weeks (months) ago.

--
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replying to Martin Bonner, KEVIN PAUL RORKE wrote:
One morning recently I went into my bathroom and as I did so I pulled the
light switch on and immediately there was a loud bsng which confused me .
When I regained my composure I discovered that the opening part of the
double glazed unit had a hole about the size of a tea plate ,with irregular
edges, in it.

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KEVIN PAUL RORKE wrote:
replying to Martin Bonner, KEVIN PAUL RORKE wrote:
One morning recently I went into my bathroom and as I did so I pulled
the light switch on and immediately there was a loud bsng which confused
me . When I regained my composure I discovered that the
opening part of the double glazed unit had a hole about the size of
a tea plate ,with irregular edges, in it.


What a lovely story


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"Phil L" wrote in message
...
KEVIN PAUL RORKE wrote:
replying to Martin Bonner, KEVIN PAUL RORKE wrote:
One morning recently I went into my bathroom and as I did so I pulled
the light switch on and immediately there was a loud bsng which confused
me . When I regained my composure I discovered that the
opening part of the double glazed unit had a hole about the size of
a tea plate ,with irregular edges, in it.


What a lovely story

Consult the rest of the thread you-know-where, dated 22 May 2014 for lots
more stories.
--
Dave W




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replying to Dave Chapman, Steven Rooney wrote:
Mines just blew today with loud bang. This has happened 4 times now in 10
years


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Default Spontaneous shattering of double glazed panels

What annoys me about postings from this portal is that for those reading in
the normal traditional way, ie not on the web but via a news client, unless
the poster specifically adds it, there is no indication of how old the
thread/topic is. I doubt anyone wants to go on the web to read it on there
to find out the true context or whatever they say, actually is.

Anyway, this thread topic seems to come up on newsgroups quite often. I
suspect it has something to do with some stress on the panel, and with
temperature cycling and the brittleness of glass, sooner or later something
breaks.
Brian

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"Steven Rooney" m wrote
in message ...
replying to Dave Chapman, Steven Rooney wrote:
Mines just blew today with loud bang. This has happened 4 times now in 10
years

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On 25/01/2017 19:44, Steven Rooney wrote:
replying to Dave Chapman, Steven Rooney wrote:
Mines just blew today with loud bang. This has happened 4 times now in 10
years

Well, it's only three years since the previous post on that topic...

That's odd. For you to have 4 failures makes me suspect that there is
some underlying cause, and it isn't just coincidence. But 10 years is
long enough that the local vandals should have grown out of it.

Perhaps your frame is warped?

Andy
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replying to Dave Chapman, larry wrote:
Hi Dave,

Who fitted your windows as exactly the same thing has happened to us but the
window company are refusing to replace the window, saying that it is a
'breakage' and not covered, so I want to user a larger more reputable
company... thanks

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On 12/06/2017 12:44, larry wrote:
replying to Dave Chapman, larry wrote: Hi Dave, Who fitted your
windows as exactly the same thing has happened to us but the window
company are refusing to replace the window, saying that it is a
'breakage' and not covered, so I want to user a larger more
reputable company... thanks


Good for you.

This might assist you with posting to a newsgroup, albeit through a website:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855

- If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you
summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just
enough text of the original to give a context.



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On 12/06/2017 12:44, larry wrote:
so I want to user a larger more reputable
company... thanks


Larger is not the same as better.
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On 12/06/2017 12:44, larry wrote:
replying to Dave Chapman, larry wrote:
Hi Dave,
Who fitted your windows as exactly the same thing has happened to us but
the
window company are refusing to replace the window, saying that it is a
'breakage' and not covered, so I want to user a larger more reputable
company... thanks


Don't fall for the con-trick that a company advertising on TV or having
the largest adverts in today's equivalent of yellow pages is necessarily
any better than a small one-man company.

Ask the salesman from the "larger/reputable" company how long ago did
they declared bankruptcy and then start trading under the same name
again.



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Yes and watch out for hidden or missing dates.

However if i had a quid for everyone who seems to get this spontaneous
shattering normally of the inside pane and often in conservatories a few
years in, I'd actually make more than what I make having money in the
building society. My guess is that sometimes there are stresses when these
units are fitted and eventually something has to give.
Brian

--
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"Fredxxx" wrote in message
news
On 12/06/2017 12:44, larry wrote:
replying to Dave Chapman, larry wrote: Hi Dave, Who fitted your
windows as exactly the same thing has happened to us but the window
company are refusing to replace the window, saying that it is a
'breakage' and not covered, so I want to user a larger more
reputable company... thanks


Good for you.

This might assist you with posting to a newsgroup, albeit through a
website:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855

- If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you
summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just
enough text of the original to give a context.



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replying to Dave Chapman, Riveiroc wrote:
Hi, I have just had one of the six glass sections of my lean to roof explode,
right above me today.
The roof was installed by a very reputable manufacturer two and half years ago.
It happed around 1.30pm today, which was sunny and quite warm.
I contacted the manufacturer to voice my concerns. Their response was that the
glass is not covered under the 5year warranty. Only the frame is covered. They
have not provided an explanation based on the images I took of the crazed
patteren in the glass. The patteren seems to emanate from a point near the top
center of the frame, downwards and fanning out. The have only offered to waive
the installation cost, but nothing else. This does not sound fair to me, but I
dont think theres much I can do about it.

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Brian Gaff wrote:

Shoot the programmer.


Maybe you could kill messages with the following header

Organization: Newsgroupdirect
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replying to Dave Chapman, Pauline Jackson wrote:
Hello Dave - yes two days ago we had exactly the same thing happen to us. The
inner panel of the roof unit exploded covering the entire conservatory (thank
goodness it was a cold wet day so we were elsewhere decorating). Nothing had
dropped onto it from outside, it was a mystery leaving damage to a leather
chair and hours of cleaning up. We have a ten year guarantee of which we have
used up seven years and hopefully after reading your mishap our installer, who
is coming later today, will have to change his tune about the fact that ours
"is the first he has ever heard about!" As he expects us to claim on our
insurance.

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On 22/11/2018 14:14, Pauline Jackson wrote:
replying to Dave Chapman, Pauline Jackson wrote:
Hello Dave - yes two days ago we had exactly the same thing happen to
us.* The
inner panel of the roof unit exploded covering the entire conservatory
(thank
goodness it was a cold wet day so we were elsewhere decorating).
Nothing had
dropped onto it from outside, it was a mystery leaving damage to a leather
chair and hours of cleaning up.* We have a ten year guarantee of which
we have
used up seven years and hopefully after reading your mishap our
installer, who
is coming later today, will have to change his tune about the fact that
ours
"is the first he has ever heard about!" As he expects us to claim on our
insurance.


As a conservatory roof, it is presumably toughened glass. It has long
been known that toughened glass can spontaneously shatter. Causes can be
slight damage during assembly; stresses due to how it is installed;
nickel inclusions from manufacture, among others.

SteveW
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On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 16:09:53 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

Even I have heard of this. They normally put it down to stresses in the
fixing or the assembly of the unit. You then only need a tiny flaw and
stress and temperature tend to make it fail.


She's replying to a 2014 post Brian - situation normal for H.O.H.

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replying to Dave Chapman, Theresa Farley wrote:
I was hanging out the washing on the line today heard a loud boom and the
outside class on one of the panels has exploded luckily the glass has stayed
put but the company is saying its not included in the gauretee just the
building I will fight this today when I have the guy here to look at it

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On 25/06/2019 14:44, Theresa Farley wrote:
replying to Dave Chapman, Theresa Farley wrote:
I was hanging out the washing on the line today heard a loud boom and the
outside class on one of the panels has exploded luckily the glass has
stayed
put but the company is saying its not included in the gauretee just the
building I will fight this today when I have the guy here to look at it


The original question was posted 13 years ago but in this case it's
either a faulty DG panel or it's much more serious and the house and
window frame is moving.

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Yes this query comes up with amazing regularity. I wonder if the panels are
under some stress and eventually the glass simply gives up and fractures.
I wonder how long one can assume a double glazed unit can last. Most of mine
have been extremely long lasting, indeed some from the middle 1970s! Yes
they are narrow gap, but are still good. One has a tine crack and I suspect
moisture is inside by now.
The modern ones though do seem less robust.
I guess if they last too long though, nobody would buy a new one... grin.
Brian

--
----- --
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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 25/06/2019 14:44, Theresa Farley wrote:
replying to Dave Chapman, Theresa Farley wrote:
I was hanging out the washing on the line today heard a loud boom and the
outside class on one of the panels has exploded luckily the glass has
stayed
put but the company is saying its not included in the gauretee just the
building I will fight this today when I have the guy here to look at it


The original question was posted 13 years ago but in this case it's either
a faulty DG panel or it's much more serious and the house and window frame
is moving.

--
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On 26/06/2019 09:15, Brian Gaff wrote:
Yes this query comes up with amazing regularity. I wonder if the panels are
under some stress and eventually the glass simply gives up and fractures.
I wonder how long one can assume a double glazed unit can last. Most of mine
have been extremely long lasting, indeed some from the middle 1970s! Yes
they are narrow gap, but are still good. One has a tine crack and I suspect
moisture is inside by now.


The toughened glass ones can be vulnerable if they get a tiny nick on
them and then with heating and cooling the crack elongates. The sort of
thing that a stone thrown up by a lawnmower might inflict. You will
never find it after the thing has gone pop you you can sometimes see
such damage when cleaning the windows (or car windscreen). I do have one
window with a visible stone chip but so far it has held out.

One of mine in normal glass double glazing has failed about a decade
after someone broke into the house by forcing the adjacent opening
window. I presume the stresses cause by deforming the aluminium frame
and steel reinforcing eventually got to the glass and it went ping in
the hot sunshine. If the frame itself is being deformed by the building
moving then all bets are off. Glass is not really very flexible (though
it bends by more than you might think). My greenhouse failed that way.

The modern ones though do seem less robust.
I guess if they last too long though, nobody would buy a new one... grin.
Brian


Not sure that modern units are any more or less robust than the older
ones. The seal and insulation they achieve has improved somewhat though.

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replying to Dave Chapman, DeeJayLeGrand wrote:
If you look at Nickel sulphide inclusions - the location of failure starts
with a "butterfly". Good to see that company is replacing the glass panels.
This is impuirty in the glass production process - more common thatn you
think. The breaking into small pieces is by design - what is referred to as
safe breakage (by design for some glass types).

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On Wednesday, 26 June 2019 09:15:51 UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:
Yes this query comes up with amazing regularity. I wonder if the panels are
under some stress and eventually the glass simply gives up and fractures.
I wonder how long one can assume a double glazed unit can last. Most of mine
have been extremely long lasting, indeed some from the middle 1970s! Yes
they are narrow gap, but are still good. One has a tine crack and I suspect
moisture is inside by now.
The modern ones though do seem less robust.
I guess if they last too long though, nobody would buy a new one... grin.
Brian

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On 25/06/2019 14:44, Theresa Farley wrote:
replying to Dave Chapman, Theresa Farley wrote:
I was hanging out the washing on the line today heard a loud boom and the
outside class on one of the panels has exploded luckily the glass has
stayed
put but the company is saying its not included in the gauretee just the
building I will fight this today when I have the guy here to look at it


The original question was posted 13 years ago but in this case it's either
a faulty DG panel or it's much more serious and the house and window frame
is moving.



They fail due to the air/gas inside heating up and expanding.
Bigger gaps have more air & therefore subjected to higher pressure.

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On 22/04/2020 08:16, harry wrote:

They fail due to the air/gas inside heating up and expanding.
Bigger gaps have more air & therefore subjected to higher pressure.


Gay-Lussac's law: the pressure changes the same with temperature
independent of the volume. Bigger gaps means more gas but also more volume.


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On 22/04/2020 09:17, Robin wrote:
On 22/04/2020 08:16, harry wrote:

They fail due to the air/gas inside heating up and expanding.
Bigger gaps have more air & therefore subjected to higher pressure.


Gay-Lussac's law: the pressure changes the same with temperature
independent of the volume.* Bigger gaps means more gas but also more
volume.


Its harry. Scientific knowledge is not his forte. He still believes in
'renewable energy'.


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harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 26 June 2019 09:15:51 UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:
Yes this query comes up with amazing regularity. I wonder if the panels are
under some stress and eventually the glass simply gives up and fractures.
I wonder how long one can assume a double glazed unit can last. Most of mine
have been extremely long lasting, indeed some from the middle 1970s! Yes
they are narrow gap, but are still good. One has a tine crack and I suspect
moisture is inside by now.
The modern ones though do seem less robust.
I guess if they last too long though, nobody would buy a new one... grin.
Brian

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On 25/06/2019 14:44, Theresa Farley wrote:
replying to Dave Chapman, Theresa Farley wrote:
I was hanging out the washing on the line today heard a loud boom and the
outside class on one of the panels has exploded luckily the glass has
stayed
put but the company is saying its not included in the gauretee just the
building I will fight this today when I have the guy here to look at it


The original question was posted 13 years ago but in this case it's either
a faulty DG panel or it's much more serious and the house and window frame
is moving.



They fail due to the air/gas inside heating up and expanding.
Bigger gaps have more air & therefore subjected to higher pressure.



The pressure might change but theres no way it should be getting near the
fatigue limit of glass unless the window is flawed in some way. Why wait a
year though to pick up on an even older post? Have you joined HOH?

Tim



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On 22/04/2020 09:17, Robin wrote:
On 22/04/2020 08:16, harry wrote:

They fail due to the air/gas inside heating up and expanding.
Bigger gaps have more air & therefore subjected to higher pressure.


Gay-Lussac's law: the pressure changes the same with temperature
independent of the volume.* Bigger gaps means more gas but also more
volume.




As I recall, Gay-Lussac's Law applies to an ideal gas. Chances an sealed
unit has (at least) some water vapour in it and isn't therefore an ideal
gas. The better ones are often filled with some inert gas when new, or
at least dry air. However, if the the seal has failed, chances are water
/ water vapour had got in and a this is causing the problem. (Water
vapour is a polarised molecule and that stops it being an ideal gas, if
I remember my Physics.)

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On 22/04/2020 10:24, Brian Reay wrote:
On 22/04/2020 09:17, Robin wrote:
On 22/04/2020 08:16, harry wrote:


They fail due to the air/gas inside heating up and expanding.
Bigger gaps have more air & therefore subjected to higher pressure.


Gay-Lussac's law: the pressure changes the same with temperature
independent of the volume.* Bigger gaps means more gas but also more
volume.


As I recall, Gay-Lussac's Law applies to an ideal gas. Chances an sealed
unit has (at least) some water vapour in it and isn't therefore an ideal gas.


The concept of an ideal gas is based on theory.

(Water vapour is a polarised molecule and that stops it being an ideal gas,
if I remember my Physics.)


You have remembered wrongly. I recall that real gasses are not ideal
gasses, whether they have water vapour in them or not. However, some
might approach ideal behaviour depending on the circumstances.

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On 22/04/2020 11:49, Spike wrote:
On 22/04/2020 10:24, Brian Reay wrote:
On 22/04/2020 09:17, Robin wrote:
On 22/04/2020 08:16, harry wrote:


They fail due to the air/gas inside heating up and expanding.
Bigger gaps have more air & therefore subjected to higher pressure.


Gay-Lussac's law: the pressure changes the same with temperature
independent of the volume.* Bigger gaps means more gas but also more
volume.


As I recall, Gay-Lussac's Law applies to an ideal gas. Chances an sealed
unit has (at least) some water vapour in it and isn't therefore an ideal gas.


The concept of an ideal gas is based on theory.

(Water vapour is a polarised molecule and that stops it being an ideal gas,
if I remember my Physics.)


You have remembered wrongly. I recall that real gasses are not ideal
gasses, whether they have water vapour in them or not. However, some
might approach ideal behaviour depending on the circumstances.


And in any event why would the departures from the ideal gas laws (which
do of course occur) be volume dependent? Does someone think the
molecules suffer from agoraphobia?

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No I suspect that there is a tiny crack somewhere and at some point it just
goes. There was a spate of this about 15 years or so ago, something to do
with the actual glass apparently.
Brian

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On 22/04/2020 08:16, harry wrote:

They fail due to the air/gas inside heating up and expanding.
Bigger gaps have more air & therefore subjected to higher pressure.


Gay-Lussac's law: the pressure changes the same with temperature
independent of the volume. Bigger gaps means more gas but also more
volume.


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replying to Dave Chapman, zippy101 wrote:
Hi Dave, we had the same experience. Did Anglian explain the cause of why the
glass had shattered?

Thanks
Mark

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Hi, we have just had the same problem. Inside window of double glazed roof panel blew and shattered everywhere. I was sitting under it, luckily was agile enough to move quickly, but if a child, elderly person or my animals were sitting underneath it could have killed them! The conservatorys only 2 and a half years old, Creative View who built it all say its common and say our 10 year guarantees and insurances dont cover this (?) and want £1200 to fit a new panel!! Given there are lots of panels and they give no explanation of why or would even visit to check, Im to scared to use the conservatory again, or let anyone else in there.
Anyone know how to prevent this happening again? Do I not use heating in there (though it wasnt on as it was 9.30am on a sunny morning and the doors were open).
Or where to get protective film (as a previous post suggests).
Or some sort of netting to catch the glass?
Thank You

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