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Default Spontaneous shattering of double glazed panels

Hi all,

We purchased an add-on conservatory from one of the large UK
suppliers about four years ago and since then we have really enjoyed all
of the benefits of a warm bright place to sit and relax even when the
weather outside is far from ideal.

However, our enjoyment has not been without its downside since one
morning about 18 months ago when we went into the conservatory we
noticed that the inner glass of one of the many double-glazed panels had
shattered into 'a million' pieces for no obvious reason.

Since our conservatory came with a 10 year warranty, we contacted the
company, explained the problem to them, which they accepted without any
fuss, and they then arranged for one of their fitters to come and
replace the panel, which they did a couple of weeks later.

All was fine for another six months then the inner glass of a
different double-glazed panel shattered overnight in a similar way. The
conmpany responded in exactly the same way and the new faulty panel was
replaced under warranty.

A couple of days ago we were sitting quietly in the conservatory when
there was a loud bang and the inner glass of one of the other
double-glazed roof panels exploded and loads of fragments of glass
showered down around us. Now, for a third time, we have had to contact
the company who, once again and without asking any questions, have
ordered a new panel which will be installed during the next couple of
weeks.

Wen I spoke to the company I asked if this was a very common
occurrence and was just told that 'yes, it happens'.

Should I be reassured with that casual answer? Why has it always been
the INNER of the panels that fails? Nothing can have dropped onto the
conservatory roof from above and we don't play any hard-ball sports in
the conservatory. All very strange.

I've done a very close inspection of the structure of the
conservatory, paying particular attention to the frames around the glass
panels to see if any of them have become distorted but I haven't seen
anything that could explain these three glass breakages.

I'm grateful that the faulty panels have been replaced (to date)
without any hassle from the company and at least I've got another seven
years of warranty remaining so can hope that any manufacturing faults in
the glass of the remaining panels will have come to light (pun
intended!), one way or another, before that warranty expires.

I've done a lot of Googling on the subject and discovered that
spontaneous shattering of toughened glass panels for no obvious reason
is very common, both in the UK and around the world. Sudden temperature
changes don't seem to be the cause - the general view seems to be that
it just happens sometimes. One explanation offered is that small
impurities were in the glass during the tempering process and these can
'grow' over time (months or years) to a point when they cause the glass
to shatter suddenly.

I'd be very interested to hear the comments of anyone else in this NG
who have experienced similar spontaneous shattering of double-glazed
panels and how the suppliers of the faulty panels have reacted.

ATB - Dave.


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Default Spontaneous shattering of double glazed panels

On Thursday, May 22, 2014 10:04:59 AM UTC+1, Dave Chapman wrote:


Are these units fixed into a rigid frame? I once worked in building where the (approx 2m x 3m) DG panels would sometimes do this and it was thought to be due to the building structure moving slightly and stressing the panels.

Robert


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RobertL wrote:
On Thursday, May 22, 2014 10:04:59 AM UTC+1, Dave Chapman wrote:


Are these units fixed into a rigid frame? I once worked in building
where the (approx 2m x 3m) DG panels would sometimes do this and it was
thought to be due to the building structure moving slightly and stressing the panels.

Robert


I wonder if the original fitter has used the wrong packing pieces leaving
no room for the glass to expand. Given your history of problems I think
you'd be justified in asking the company to inspect the fitting of all the
glass in the frames.

Tim
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Default Spontaneous shattering of double glazed panels

On 22/05/2014 10:04, Dave Chapman wrote:
Hi all,

We purchased an add-on conservatory from one of the large UK
suppliers about four years ago and since then we have really enjoyed all
of the benefits of a warm bright place to sit and relax even when the
weather outside is far from ideal.

However, our enjoyment has not been without its downside since one
morning about 18 months ago when we went into the conservatory we
noticed that the inner glass of one of the many double-glazed panels had
shattered into 'a million' pieces for no obvious reason.


The most common cause of spontaneous shattering is a scratch somewhere
that is deep enough to act as a stress concentrator. The flexure of the
building with cyclic heating cooling and wind loading gradually makes
the crack grow until it becomes self sustaining and detonates.


It is even more alarming when it happens with a toughened glass jug of
water and the whole thing disintigrates into 5mm pieces.

If it happens too often then I would be inclined to blame either rough
handling by the installers, something you are doing or bad design.

I'm a bit surprised it is always the inside. At a guess the outside
cools faster and the frame is slightly too rigid so that the inner
surface is in tension. One of mine has a small chip caused by the lawn
mower flicking up a stone which so far has survived more than a decade.

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Martin Brown
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Default Spontaneous shattering of double glazed panels

On Thu, 22 May 2014 10:04:59 +0100
Dave Chapman wrote:

Hi all,

We purchased an add-on conservatory from one of the large UK
suppliers about four years ago and since then we have really enjoyed
all of the benefits of a warm bright place to sit and relax even when
the weather outside is far from ideal.

However, our enjoyment has not been without its downside since one
morning about 18 months ago when we went into the conservatory we
noticed that the inner glass of one of the many double-glazed panels
had shattered into 'a million' pieces for no obvious reason.

snip

I'd be very interested to hear the comments of anyone else in this
NG who have experienced similar spontaneous shattering of
double-glazed panels and how the suppliers of the faulty panels have
reacted.

ATB - Dave.



A few months ago, I was parking my car, with witnesses, and the rear
window, an openable panel in an estate car tailgate, spontaneously
shattered. There was nothing anybody could see that could have caused
it.
Insurance replaced it for me.

--
Davey.


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Default Spontaneous shattering of double glazed panels

On Thu, 22 May 2014 11:54:48 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 22/05/2014 10:04, Dave Chapman wrote:
Hi all,

We purchased an add-on conservatory from one of the large UK
suppliers about four years ago and since then we have really enjoyed all
of the benefits of a warm bright place to sit and relax even when the
weather outside is far from ideal.

However, our enjoyment has not been without its downside since one
morning about 18 months ago when we went into the conservatory we
noticed that the inner glass of one of the many double-glazed panels had
shattered into 'a million' pieces for no obvious reason.


The most common cause of spontaneous shattering is a scratch somewhere
that is deep enough to act as a stress concentrator. The flexure of the
building with cyclic heating cooling and wind loading gradually makes
the crack grow until it becomes self sustaining and detonates.


It is even more alarming when it happens with a toughened glass jug of
water and the whole thing disintigrates into 5mm pieces.




I one saw it happen to a molded glass Hors d'oeuvre dish, just after
Grace was said. Spooky.


--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%
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Default Spontaneous shattering of double glazed panels

On Thursday, May 22, 2014 11:54:48 AM UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:
I'm a bit surprised it is always the inside. At a guess the outside
cools faster and the frame is slightly too rigid so that the inner
surface is in tension.


That can't be right Martin. If the outer was cool and shrank faster,
it would put the outer in tension and the inner in compression.

(You may be thinking of a single sheet of toughened glass which is
made by cooling the surface rapidly. The surface layer shrinks and
deforms the inside plastically. Eventually the inside cools and
shrinks, but the outside is solid - so the inside ends up in tension
and the outside in compression.)
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On 22/05/2014 13:15, Martin Bonner wrote:
On Thursday, May 22, 2014 11:54:48 AM UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:
I'm a bit surprised it is always the inside. At a guess the outside
cools faster and the frame is slightly too rigid so that the inner
surface is in tension.


That can't be right Martin. If the outer was cool and shrank faster,
it would put the outer in tension and the inner in compression.


Fair point Martin. That makes it even more surprising that the inner
surface goes pop and consistently at night. I still think is is either
related to differential expansion or mistreatment/abuse of the panels.

--
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Martin Brown
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Default Spontaneous shattering of double glazed panels

Davey wrote:
On Thu, 22 May 2014 10:04:59 +0100
Dave Chapman wrote:

Hi all,

We purchased an add-on conservatory from one of the large UK
suppliers about four years ago and since then we have really enjoyed
all of the benefits of a warm bright place to sit and relax even when
the weather outside is far from ideal.

However, our enjoyment has not been without its downside since one
morning about 18 months ago when we went into the conservatory we
noticed that the inner glass of one of the many double-glazed panels
had shattered into 'a million' pieces for no obvious reason.

snip

I'd be very interested to hear the comments of anyone else in this
NG who have experienced similar spontaneous shattering of
double-glazed panels and how the suppliers of the faulty panels have
reacted.

ATB - Dave.



A few months ago, I was parking my car, with witnesses, and the rear
window, an openable panel in an estate car tailgate, spontaneously
shattered. There was nothing anybody could see that could have caused
it.
Insurance replaced it for me.


This is a well known issue, see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_glass_breakage

I've had a car window do this after 10 years, the panel stayed together
though and the inclusion that initiated the breakage was still visible
(happened on a sudden frosty night).

Also, I've seen it happen to thick architectural glass panels in a high
profile building. Seem to be the luck of the draw - possibly a bad
batch of glass in this case.

Chris K


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On Thu, 22 May 2014 18:49:05 +0100
ChrisK wrote:

Davey wrote:
On Thu, 22 May 2014 10:04:59 +0100
Dave Chapman wrote:

Hi all,

We purchased an add-on conservatory from one of the large UK
suppliers about four years ago and since then we have really
enjoyed all of the benefits of a warm bright place to sit and
relax even when the weather outside is far from ideal.

However, our enjoyment has not been without its downside since
one morning about 18 months ago when we went into the conservatory
we noticed that the inner glass of one of the many double-glazed
panels had shattered into 'a million' pieces for no obvious reason.

snip

I'd be very interested to hear the comments of anyone else in
this NG who have experienced similar spontaneous shattering of
double-glazed panels and how the suppliers of the faulty panels
have reacted.

ATB - Dave.



A few months ago, I was parking my car, with witnesses, and the rear
window, an openable panel in an estate car tailgate, spontaneously
shattered. There was nothing anybody could see that could have
caused it.
Insurance replaced it for me.


This is a well known issue, see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_glass_breakage

I've had a car window do this after 10 years, the panel stayed
together though and the inclusion that initiated the breakage was
still visible (happened on a sudden frosty night).

Also, I've seen it happen to thick architectural glass panels in a
high profile building. Seem to be the luck of the draw - possibly a
bad batch of glass in this case.

Chris K



Interesting. I can't say which, if any, of those was the cause of mine.
The car is several years old, but it was in winter, although not in a
particular cold spell.
Whatever.

A colleague of mine in the US once had a similar event while crossing
the high bridge where the Interstate crosses the Rouge River outside
Detroit, but the cause was a large piece of metal that came in through
the back window, and landed behind his passenger seat. The puzzle was
how it got there at all, he was high above ground level, and there were
no lorries anywhere near him at the time.

--
Davey.


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On Thursday, May 22, 2014 10:04:59 AM UTC+1, Dave Chapman wrote:
A couple of days ago we were sitting quietly in the conservatory when
there was a loud bang and the inner glass of one of the other
double-glazed roof panels exploded and loads of fragments of glass
showered down around us.


As well as having the company inspect all the remaining panels, I would think about fitting an adhesive safety film to hold the pieces together if/when another panel fails.

Owain

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Yes it happened to a smoked glass mug about a year ago. it was just sitting
there on the table with water in it. There was a dull thud then a dripping
sound, so I went in and found a miniflood with tiny bits of dark glass in
it. Most odd.
I've also had strange things happen in greenouses with plastic sheet going
bang, turning black and all scrumpled up and brittle. i assume this is some
kind of sun damage, which is not really welcome in a greenhouse!

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Graham." wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 May 2014 11:54:48 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 22/05/2014 10:04, Dave Chapman wrote:
Hi all,

We purchased an add-on conservatory from one of the large UK
suppliers about four years ago and since then we have really enjoyed all
of the benefits of a warm bright place to sit and relax even when the
weather outside is far from ideal.

However, our enjoyment has not been without its downside since one
morning about 18 months ago when we went into the conservatory we
noticed that the inner glass of one of the many double-glazed panels had
shattered into 'a million' pieces for no obvious reason.


The most common cause of spontaneous shattering is a scratch somewhere
that is deep enough to act as a stress concentrator. The flexure of the
building with cyclic heating cooling and wind loading gradually makes
the crack grow until it becomes self sustaining and detonates.


It is even more alarming when it happens with a toughened glass jug of
water and the whole thing disintigrates into 5mm pieces.




I one saw it happen to a molded glass Hors d'oeuvre dish, just after
Grace was said. Spooky.


--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%



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I was just thinking that myself, but another thought struck me, is there
any gass put in these units that might expand, and is the inner glass the
same thickness and type as the outer one is?

Brian

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From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
wrote in message
...
On Thursday, May 22, 2014 10:04:59 AM UTC+1, Dave Chapman wrote:
A couple of days ago we were sitting quietly in the conservatory when
there was a loud bang and the inner glass of one of the other
double-glazed roof panels exploded and loads of fragments of glass
showered down around us.


As well as having the company inspect all the remaining panels, I would
think about fitting an adhesive safety film to hold the pieces together
if/when another panel fails.

Owain



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In article ,
Davey wrote:
A few months ago, I was parking my car, with witnesses, and the rear
window, an openable panel in an estate car tailgate, spontaneously
shattered. There was nothing anybody could see that could have caused
it.


Had you been using the heater? That's what happened to me - I think it may
have overheated locally.

Insurance replaced it for me.


Same here. And Autoglass charged my insurance company 500 quid for a
screen I could buy for 200.

--
*Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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On Fri, 23 May 2014 11:25:43 +0100
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Davey wrote:
A few months ago, I was parking my car, with witnesses, and the rear
window, an openable panel in an estate car tailgate, spontaneously
shattered. There was nothing anybody could see that could have
caused it.


Had you been using the heater? That's what happened to me - I think
it may have overheated locally.


Not really sure, it's one of those automatic systems. But it wasn't in
deep winter weather.

Insurance replaced it for me.


Same here. And Autoglass charged my insurance company 500 quid for a
screen I could buy for 200.

No idea what the company I was sent to by Aviva charged them. He said
it would have been about £200-£300 if I had paid myself, and it was a
hard to find piece of glass. I'm glad I didn't try to fit it myself, it
looks really complex, what with fitting into the slots, various power
connections, wiper motor and arm, and struts. Well worth the deductible.

--
Davey.



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On Fri, 23 May 2014 11:01:07 +0100
"Brian Gaff" wrote:

I've also had strange things happen in greenouses with plastic sheet
going bang, turning black and all scrumpled up and brittle. i assume
this is some kind of sun damage, which is not really welcome in a
greenhouse!


You haven't had any nuclear bomb testing recently in your area?

--
Davey.
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On Thu, 22 May 2014 19:20:46 +0100, Davey
wrote:

====snip====


A colleague of mine in the US once had a similar event while crossing
the high bridge where the Interstate crosses the Rouge River outside
Detroit, but the cause was a large piece of metal that came in through
the back window, and landed behind his passenger seat. The puzzle was
how it got there at all, he was high above ground level, and there were
no lorries anywhere near him at the time.


trucks --- for the benefit of any confused americans
--
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On Fri, 23 May 2014 14:34:13 +0100
Johny B Good wrote:

On Thu, 22 May 2014 19:20:46 +0100, Davey
wrote:

====snip====


A colleague of mine in the US once had a similar event while crossing
the high bridge where the Interstate crosses the Rouge River outside
Detroit, but the cause was a large piece of metal that came in
through the back window, and landed behind his passenger seat. The
puzzle was how it got there at all, he was high above ground level,
and there were no lorries anywhere near him at the time.


trucks --- for the benefit of any confused americans


This is a *UK* newsgroup! English spoken here, proudly.

--
Davey.
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On Friday, May 23, 2014 2:34:13 PM UTC+1, Johny B Good wrote:
On Thu, 22 May 2014 19:20:46 +0100, Davey

wrote:



====snip====





A colleague of mine in the US once had a similar event while crossing


the high bridge where the Interstate crosses the Rouge River outside


Detroit, but the cause was a large piece of metal that came in through


the back window, and landed behind his passenger seat. The puzzle was


how it got there at all, he was high above ground level, and there were


no lorries anywhere near him at the time.




trucks --- for the benefit of any confused americans

--

Regards, J B Good


A bit of the bridge?

Jonathan
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On 23/05/2014 14:34, Johny B Good wrote:
trucks --- for the benefit of any confused americans


It's not as if we're talking about carts and trolleys. AFAIK lorry only
has one meaning.

Andy


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On Fri, 23 May 2014 21:28:18 +0100
Vir Campestris wrote:

On 23/05/2014 14:34, Johny B Good wrote:
trucks --- for the benefit of any confused americans


It's not as if we're talking about carts and trolleys. AFAIK lorry
only has one meaning.

Andy


True, but it is not in the American dictionary. Nor is 'fortnight'. Nor
is 'twice', unbelievably.

--
Davey.
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On Fri, 23 May 2014 13:27:11 -0700 (PDT)
Jonathan wrote:

On Friday, May 23, 2014 2:34:13 PM UTC+1, Johny B Good wrote:
On Thu, 22 May 2014 19:20:46 +0100, Davey

wrote:



====snip====





A colleague of mine in the US once had a similar event while
crossing


the high bridge where the Interstate crosses the Rouge River
outside


Detroit, but the cause was a large piece of metal that came in
through


the back window, and landed behind his passenger seat. The puzzle
was


how it got there at all, he was high above ground level, and there
were


no lorries anywhere near him at the time.




trucks --- for the benefit of any confused americans

--

Regards, J B Good


A bit of the bridge?

Jonathan


Possible. Michigan bridges were notoriously badly maintained. It was
many years ago now, so I doubt we'll ever know.

--
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On 5/23/2014 7:16 PM, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 23 May 2014 21:28:18 +0100
Vir Campestris wrote:
On 23/05/2014 14:34, Johny B Good wrote:
trucks --- for the benefit of any confused americans

It's not as if we're talking about carts and trolleys. AFAIK lorry
only has one meaning.

True, but it is not in the American dictionary. Nor is 'fortnight'. Nor
is 'twice', unbelievably.

Which American dictionary have you consulted?
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On Fri, 23 May 2014 19:27:15 -0400
S Viemeister wrote:

On 5/23/2014 7:16 PM, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 23 May 2014 21:28:18 +0100
Vir Campestris wrote:
On 23/05/2014 14:34, Johny B Good wrote:
trucks --- for the benefit of any confused americans
It's not as if we're talking about carts and trolleys. AFAIK lorry
only has one meaning.

True, but it is not in the American dictionary. Nor is 'fortnight'.
Nor is 'twice', unbelievably.

Which American dictionary have you consulted?


The verbal one of living there for 30 years.

--
Davey.
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On 5/23/2014 7:34 PM, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 23 May 2014 19:27:15 -0400
S Viemeister wrote:

On 5/23/2014 7:16 PM, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 23 May 2014 21:28:18 +0100
Vir Campestris wrote:
On 23/05/2014 14:34, Johny B Good wrote:
trucks --- for the benefit of any confused americans
It's not as if we're talking about carts and trolleys. AFAIK lorry
only has one meaning.
True, but it is not in the American dictionary. Nor is 'fortnight'.
Nor is 'twice', unbelievably.

Which American dictionary have you consulted?


The verbal one of living there for 30 years.

Michigan must be more backward than the east coast.


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Davey wrote:
On Fri, 23 May 2014 13:27:11 -0700 (PDT)
wrote:

On Friday, May 23, 2014 2:34:13 PM UTC+1, Johny B Good wrote:
On Thu, 22 May 2014 19:20:46 +0100,

wrote:



====snip====





A colleague of mine in the US once had a similar event while
crossing

the high bridge where the Interstate crosses the Rouge River
outside

Detroit, but the cause was a large piece of metal that came in
through

the back window, and landed behind his passenger seat. The puzzle
was

how it got there at all, he was high above ground level, and there
were

no lorries anywhere near him at the time.



trucks--- for the benefit of any confused americans

--

Regards, J B Good


A bit of the bridge?

Jonathan


Possible. Michigan bridges were notoriously badly maintained. It was
many years ago now, so I doubt we'll ever know.


In my case, it was whilst driving through Mississippi, there was a hell
of a bang and I discovered that a plastic trim piece behind the rear
door had gained a starred decoration. I put it down to a stray bullet
from a hunter as the area was forested. Luckily it didn't hit any glass.
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On Fri, 23 May 2014 21:37:49 -0400
S Viemeister wrote:

On 5/23/2014 7:34 PM, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 23 May 2014 19:27:15 -0400
S Viemeister wrote:

On 5/23/2014 7:16 PM, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 23 May 2014 21:28:18 +0100
Vir Campestris wrote:
On 23/05/2014 14:34, Johny B Good wrote:
trucks --- for the benefit of any confused
americans
It's not as if we're talking about carts and trolleys. AFAIK
lorry only has one meaning.
True, but it is not in the American dictionary. Nor is
'fortnight'. Nor is 'twice', unbelievably.

Which American dictionary have you consulted?


The verbal one of living there for 30 years.

Michigan must be more backward than the east coast.


I lived and worked in Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, New Jersey, New York,
Illinois, Minnesota, California, Tennessee, Georgia, Kentucky,
Maine, Connecticut, Virginia, North and South Carolinas, and maybe
more, and visited many more. In none of them were the words 'fortnight'
or 'twice' ever used voluntarily by any American I met, and if I used
them, I got asked what I meant when using them.

Another oddity is the use of 'one-half' instead of 'a half', as in:

English: "He took the corner too fast, and rolled the car one and a
half times".
American: "He took the curve too fast, and rolled the car one and one
half times".
It always sounds odd to the English ear.

--
Davey.
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Default Spontaneous shattering of double glazed panels

On Sat, 24 May 2014 11:35:44 +0100
Capitol wrote:

Davey wrote:
On Fri, 23 May 2014 13:27:11 -0700 (PDT)
wrote:

On Friday, May 23, 2014 2:34:13 PM UTC+1, Johny B Good wrote:
On Thu, 22 May 2014 19:20:46 +0100,

wrote:



====snip====





A colleague of mine in the US once had a similar event while
crossing

the high bridge where the Interstate crosses the Rouge River
outside

Detroit, but the cause was a large piece of metal that came in
through

the back window, and landed behind his passenger seat. The puzzle
was

how it got there at all, he was high above ground level, and
there were

no lorries anywhere near him at the time.



trucks--- for the benefit of any confused americans

--

Regards, J B Good

A bit of the bridge?

Jonathan


Possible. Michigan bridges were notoriously badly maintained. It was
many years ago now, so I doubt we'll ever know.


In my case, it was whilst driving through Mississippi, there
was a hell of a bang and I discovered that a plastic trim piece
behind the rear door had gained a starred decoration. I put it down
to a stray bullet from a hunter as the area was forested. Luckily it
didn't hit any glass.


In Mississippi, it could as easily have been somebody doing moving
target practice!

Oh, sorry, that's Detroit....

--
Davey.
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Default Spontaneous shattering of double glazed panels

Davey wrote:
On Sat, 24 May 2014 11:35:44 +0100
wrote:

Davey wrote:
On Fri, 23 May 2014 13:27:11 -0700 (PDT)
wrote:

On Friday, May 23, 2014 2:34:13 PM UTC+1, Johny B Good wrote:
On Thu, 22 May 2014 19:20:46 +0100,

wrote:



====snip====





A colleague of mine in the US once had a similar event while
crossing

the high bridge where the Interstate crosses the Rouge River
outside

Detroit, but the cause was a large piece of metal that came in
through

the back window, and landed behind his passenger seat. The puzzle
was

how it got there at all, he was high above ground level, and
there were

no lorries anywhere near him at the time.



trucks--- for the benefit of any confused americans

--

Regards, J B Good

A bit of the bridge?

Jonathan

Possible. Michigan bridges were notoriously badly maintained. It was
many years ago now, so I doubt we'll ever know.


In my case, it was whilst driving through Mississippi, there
was a hell of a bang and I discovered that a plastic trim piece
behind the rear door had gained a starred decoration. I put it down
to a stray bullet from a hunter as the area was forested. Luckily it
didn't hit any glass.


In Mississippi, it could as easily have been somebody doing moving
target practice!

Oh, sorry, that's Detroit....


Or Houston!
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Default Spontaneous shattering of double glazed panels

On Sat, 24 May 2014 12:10:36 +0100
Capitol wrote:

Davey wrote:
On Sat, 24 May 2014 11:35:44 +0100
wrote:

Davey wrote:
On Fri, 23 May 2014 13:27:11 -0700 (PDT)
wrote:

On Friday, May 23, 2014 2:34:13 PM UTC+1, Johny B Good wrote:
On Thu, 22 May 2014 19:20:46 +0100,

wrote:



====snip====





A colleague of mine in the US once had a similar event while
crossing

the high bridge where the Interstate crosses the Rouge River
outside

Detroit, but the cause was a large piece of metal that came in
through

the back window, and landed behind his passenger seat. The
puzzle was

how it got there at all, he was high above ground level, and
there were

no lorries anywhere near him at the time.



trucks--- for the benefit of any confused americans

--

Regards, J B Good

A bit of the bridge?

Jonathan

Possible. Michigan bridges were notoriously badly maintained. It
was many years ago now, so I doubt we'll ever know.


In my case, it was whilst driving through Mississippi,
there was a hell of a bang and I discovered that a plastic trim
piece behind the rear door had gained a starred decoration. I put
it down to a stray bullet from a hunter as the area was forested.
Luckily it didn't hit any glass.


In Mississippi, it could as easily have been somebody doing moving
target practice!

Oh, sorry, that's Detroit....


Or Houston!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1n37eg-lFI

--
Davey.


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Default Spontaneous shattering of double glazed panels

On 5/24/2014 7:05 AM, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 23 May 2014 21:37:49 -0400
S Viemeister wrote:

On 5/23/2014 7:34 PM, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 23 May 2014 19:27:15 -0400
S Viemeister wrote:

On 5/23/2014 7:16 PM, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 23 May 2014 21:28:18 +0100
Vir Campestris wrote:
On 23/05/2014 14:34, Johny B Good wrote:
trucks --- for the benefit of any confused
americans
It's not as if we're talking about carts and trolleys. AFAIK
lorry only has one meaning.
True, but it is not in the American dictionary. Nor is
'fortnight'. Nor is 'twice', unbelievably.

Which American dictionary have you consulted?

The verbal one of living there for 30 years.

Michigan must be more backward than the east coast.


I lived and worked in Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, New Jersey, New York,
Illinois, Minnesota, California, Tennessee, Georgia, Kentucky,
Maine, Connecticut, Virginia, North and South Carolinas, and maybe
more, and visited many more. In none of them were the words 'fortnight'
or 'twice' ever used voluntarily by any American I met, and if I used
them, I got asked what I meant when using them.

Another oddity is the use of 'one-half' instead of 'a half', as in:

English: "He took the corner too fast, and rolled the car one and a
half times".
American: "He took the curve too fast, and rolled the car one and one
half times".
It always sounds odd to the English ear.

I, too, have spent decades in the US, and my experience differs from yours.
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Default Spontaneous shattering of double glazed panels

On Sat, 24 May 2014 07:46:05 -0400
S Viemeister wrote:

On 5/24/2014 7:05 AM, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 23 May 2014 21:37:49 -0400
S Viemeister wrote:

On 5/23/2014 7:34 PM, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 23 May 2014 19:27:15 -0400
S Viemeister wrote:

On 5/23/2014 7:16 PM, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 23 May 2014 21:28:18 +0100
Vir Campestris wrote:
On 23/05/2014 14:34, Johny B Good wrote:
trucks --- for the benefit of any confused
americans
It's not as if we're talking about carts and trolleys. AFAIK
lorry only has one meaning.
True, but it is not in the American dictionary. Nor is
'fortnight'. Nor is 'twice', unbelievably.

Which American dictionary have you consulted?

The verbal one of living there for 30 years.

Michigan must be more backward than the east coast.


I lived and worked in Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, New Jersey, New York,
Illinois, Minnesota, California, Tennessee, Georgia, Kentucky,
Maine, Connecticut, Virginia, North and South Carolinas, and maybe
more, and visited many more. In none of them were the words
'fortnight' or 'twice' ever used voluntarily by any American I met,
and if I used them, I got asked what I meant when using them.

Another oddity is the use of 'one-half' instead of 'a half', as in:

English: "He took the corner too fast, and rolled the car one and a
half times".
American: "He took the curve too fast, and rolled the car one and
one half times".
It always sounds odd to the English ear.

I, too, have spent decades in the US, and my experience differs from
yours.


We clearly moved in different circles.

--
Davey.
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Default Spontaneous shattering of double glazed panels

On Sat, 24 May 2014 13:00:19 +0100
Davey wrote:

On Sat, 24 May 2014 07:46:05 -0400
S Viemeister wrote:

On 5/24/2014 7:05 AM, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 23 May 2014 21:37:49 -0400
S Viemeister wrote:

On 5/23/2014 7:34 PM, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 23 May 2014 19:27:15 -0400
S Viemeister wrote:

On 5/23/2014 7:16 PM, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 23 May 2014 21:28:18 +0100
Vir Campestris wrote:
On 23/05/2014 14:34, Johny B Good wrote:
trucks --- for the benefit of any confused
americans
It's not as if we're talking about carts and trolleys. AFAIK
lorry only has one meaning.
True, but it is not in the American dictionary. Nor is
'fortnight'. Nor is 'twice', unbelievably.

Which American dictionary have you consulted?

The verbal one of living there for 30 years.

Michigan must be more backward than the east coast.

I lived and worked in Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, New Jersey, New
York, Illinois, Minnesota, California, Tennessee, Georgia,
Kentucky, Maine, Connecticut, Virginia, North and South
Carolinas, and maybe more, and visited many more. In none of them
were the words 'fortnight' or 'twice' ever used voluntarily by
any American I met, and if I used them, I got asked what I meant
when using them.

Another oddity is the use of 'one-half' instead of 'a half', as
in:

English: "He took the corner too fast, and rolled the car one and
a half times".
American: "He took the curve too fast, and rolled the car one and
one half times".
It always sounds odd to the English ear.

I, too, have spent decades in the US, and my experience differs from
yours.


We clearly moved in different circles.


I cite these pages in support of my view, using an American dictionary:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fortnight

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/twice

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lorry

Check the Comments in all cases. for peoples' familiarity, or
otherwise, with the terms.

--
Davey.
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Default Spontaneous shattering of double glazed panels

On 5/24/2014 8:00 AM, Davey wrote:
On Sat, 24 May 2014 07:46:05 -0400
S Viemeister wrote:
On 5/24/2014 7:05 AM, Davey wrote:
I lived and worked in Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, New Jersey, New York,
Illinois, Minnesota, California, Tennessee, Georgia, Kentucky,
Maine, Connecticut, Virginia, North and South Carolinas, and maybe
more, and visited many more. In none of them were the words
'fortnight' or 'twice' ever used voluntarily by any American I met,
and if I used them, I got asked what I meant when using them.

Another oddity is the use of 'one-half' instead of 'a half', as in:

English: "He took the corner too fast, and rolled the car one and a
half times".
American: "He took the curve too fast, and rolled the car one and
one half times".
It always sounds odd to the English ear.

I, too, have spent decades in the US, and my experience differs from
yours.


We clearly moved in different circles.

Apparently so.
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Default Spontaneous shattering of double glazed panels

On Sat, 24 May 2014 13:08:03 +0100
Davey wrote:

On Sat, 24 May 2014 13:00:19 +0100
Davey wrote:

On Sat, 24 May 2014 07:46:05 -0400
S Viemeister wrote:

On 5/24/2014 7:05 AM, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 23 May 2014 21:37:49 -0400
S Viemeister wrote:

On 5/23/2014 7:34 PM, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 23 May 2014 19:27:15 -0400
S Viemeister wrote:

On 5/23/2014 7:16 PM, Davey wrote:
On Fri, 23 May 2014 21:28:18 +0100
Vir Campestris wrote:
On 23/05/2014 14:34, Johny B Good wrote:
trucks --- for the benefit of any confused
americans
It's not as if we're talking about carts and trolleys.
AFAIK lorry only has one meaning.
True, but it is not in the American dictionary. Nor is
'fortnight'. Nor is 'twice', unbelievably.

Which American dictionary have you consulted?

The verbal one of living there for 30 years.

Michigan must be more backward than the east coast.

I lived and worked in Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, New Jersey, New
York, Illinois, Minnesota, California, Tennessee, Georgia,
Kentucky, Maine, Connecticut, Virginia, North and South
Carolinas, and maybe more, and visited many more. In none of
them were the words 'fortnight' or 'twice' ever used
voluntarily by any American I met, and if I used them, I got
asked what I meant when using them.

snip

Was watching 'Homes under the Hammer' today, and there was this
American young lady on, and lo! and behold, she came out with 'two
times' instead of twice, all on her own.

--
Davey.


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Default Spontaneous shattering of double glazed panels

replying to Dave Chapman , TonyB wrote:
dave wrote:

Hi all,
We purchased an add-on conservatory from one of the large UK
suppliers about four years ago and since then we have really enjoyed all
of the benefits of a warm bright place to sit and relax even when the
weather outside is far from ideal.
However, our enjoyment has not been without its downside since one
morning about 18 months ago when we went into the conservatory we
noticed that the inner glass of one of the many double-glazed panels had
shattered into 'a million' pieces for no obvious reason.
Since our conservatory came with a 10 year warranty, we contacted the
company, explained the problem to them, which they accepted without any
fuss, and they then arranged for one of their fitters to come and
replace the panel, which they did a couple of weeks later.
All was fine for another six months then the inner glass of a
different double-glazed panel shattered overnight in a similar way. The
conmpany responded in exactly the same way and the new faulty panel was
replaced under warranty.
A couple of days ago we were sitting quietly in the conservatory when
there was a loud bang and the inner glass of one of the other
double-glazed roof panels exploded and loads of fragments of glass
showered down around us. Now, for a third time, we have had to contact
the company who, once again and without asking any questions, have
ordered a new panel which will be installed during the next couple of
weeks.
Wen I spoke to the company I asked if this was a very common
occurrence and was just told that 'yes, it happens'.
Should I be reassured with that casual answer? Why has it always been
the INNER of the panels that fails? Nothing can have dropped onto the
conservatory roof from above and we don't play any hard-ball sports in
the conservatory. All very strange.
I've done a very close inspection of the structure of the
conservatory, paying particular attention to the frames around the glass
panels to see if any of them have become distorted but I haven't seen
anything that could explain these three glass breakages.
I'm grateful that the faulty panels have been replaced (to date)
without any hassle from the company and at least I've got another seven
years of warranty remaining so can hope that any manufacturing faults in
the glass of the remaining panels will have come to light (pun
intended!), one way or another, before that warranty expires.
I've done a lot of Googling on the subject and discovered that
spontaneous shattering of toughened glass panels for no obvious reason
is very common, both in the UK and around the world. Sudden temperature
changes don't seem to be the cause - the general view seems to be that
it just happens sometimes. One explanation offered is that small
impurities were in the glass during the tempering process and these can
'grow' over time (months or years) to a point when they cause the glass
to shatter suddenly.
I'd be very interested to hear the comments of anyone else in this NG
who have experienced similar spontaneous shattering of double-glazed
panels and how the suppliers of the faulty panels have reacted.
ATB - Dave.




Hi Dave,

We have experienced exactly the same thing. We also have a conservatory
from a major supplier, fitted just under 4 years ago. Last June, we came
home to find the inside pane of one of the large glass side panels
completely shattered. No-one was in the house at the time. About two weeks
later another panel shattered in exactly the same fashion. Both panels
went on relatively cool days, so heat excessive heat expansion could not
be the cause.
To date the company has replaced the two panels without question. However;
last Sunday there was a terrific bang and we were horrified to find a
third panel has shattered - again the inside pane on another relatively
cool day and again, fortunately no-one was in the conservatory at the
time. This time the site manager visited and has quibbled about the
guarantee. He did not offer any kind of information, or have any idea as
to the cause, other than 'it happens' - more than that, he seemed
unwilling to undertake any investigation - not at all re-assuring. We are
pushing to get the panel replaced under the guarantee, as we think it is
down to impurities within the glass and is therefore clearly a
manufacturing fault.
We are not all reassured that it won't happen again. Each shattering has
left a fine carpet of very sharp glass fragments on the floor, even though
the panel has stayed intact in the frame. I am not reassured that it is
not potentially dangerous to either us, or our pet dog who likes to soak
up the warmth. We have asked for a full investigation, but it doesn't seem
as though this will be forthcoming.
I would be very interested to hear of other's experiences.

Kind regards,

Tony

--


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Default Spontaneous shattering of double glazed panels


"TonyB" wrote in message
roups.com...
replying to Dave Chapman , TonyB wrote:
dave wrote:

Hi all, We purchased an add-on conservatory from one of the large UK
suppliers about four years ago and since then we have really enjoyed all
of the benefits of a warm bright place to sit and relax even when the
weather outside is far from ideal. However, our enjoyment has not been
without its downside since one morning about 18 months ago when we went
into the conservatory we noticed that the inner glass of one of the many
double-glazed panels had shattered into 'a million' pieces for no
obvious reason. Since our conservatory came with a 10 year warranty, we
contacted the company, explained the problem to them, which they
accepted without any fuss, and they then arranged for one of their
fitters to come and replace the panel, which they did a couple of weeks
later. All was fine for another six months then the inner glass of a
different double-glazed panel shattered overnight in a similar way. The
conmpany responded in exactly the same way and the new faulty panel was
replaced under warranty. A couple of days ago we were sitting quietly in
the conservatory when there was a loud bang and the inner glass of one
of the other double-glazed roof panels exploded and loads of fragments
of glass showered down around us. Now, for a third time, we have had to
contact the company who, once again and without asking any questions,
have ordered a new panel which will be installed during the next couple
of weeks. Wen I spoke to the company I asked if this was a very common
occurrence and was just told that 'yes, it happens'. Should I be
reassured with that casual answer? Why has it always been the INNER of
the panels that fails? Nothing can have dropped onto the conservatory
roof from above and we don't play any hard-ball sports in the
conservatory. All very strange. I've done a very close inspection of the
structure of the conservatory, paying particular attention to the frames
around the glass panels to see if any of them have become distorted but
I haven't seen anything that could explain these three glass breakages.
I'm grateful that the faulty panels have been replaced (to date) without
any hassle from the company and at least I've got another seven years of
warranty remaining so can hope that any manufacturing faults in the
glass of the remaining panels will have come to light (pun intended!),
one way or another, before that warranty expires. I've done a lot of
Googling on the subject and discovered that spontaneous shattering of
toughened glass panels for no obvious reason is very common, both in the
UK and around the world. Sudden temperature changes don't seem to be the
cause - the general view seems to be that it just happens sometimes. One
explanation offered is that small impurities were in the glass during
the tempering process and these can 'grow' over time (months or years)
to a point when they cause the glass to shatter suddenly. I'd be very
interested to hear the comments of anyone else in this NG who have
experienced similar spontaneous shattering of double-glazed panels and
how the suppliers of the faulty panels have reacted. ATB - Dave.




Hi Dave,

We have experienced exactly the same thing. We also have a conservatory
from a major supplier, fitted just under 4 years ago. Last June, we came
home to find the inside pane of one of the large glass side panels
completely shattered. No-one was in the house at the time. About two weeks
later another panel shattered in exactly the same fashion. Both panels
went on relatively cool days, so heat excessive heat expansion could not
be the cause.
To date the company has replaced the two panels without question. However;
last Sunday there was a terrific bang and we were horrified to find a
third panel has shattered - again the inside pane on another relatively
cool day and again, fortunately no-one was in the conservatory at the
time. This time the site manager visited and has quibbled about the
guarantee. He did not offer any kind of information, or have any idea as
to the cause, other than 'it happens' - more than that, he seemed
unwilling to undertake any investigation - not at all re-assuring. We are
pushing to get the panel replaced under the guarantee, as we think it is
down to impurities within the glass and is therefore clearly a
manufacturing fault.
We are not all reassured that it won't happen again. Each shattering has
left a fine carpet of very sharp glass fragments on the floor, even though
the panel has stayed intact in the frame. I am not reassured that it is
not potentially dangerous to either us, or our pet dog who likes to soak
up the warmth. We have asked for a full investigation, but it doesn't seem
as though this will be forthcoming.
I would be very interested to hear of other's experiences.

Kind regards,

Tony



A good reason to have a conservatory built on dwarf walls.
You only have the doors to worry about.

I'm amazed about the roof panel.
Only the lower panels need to be toughened glass.
You might ask about this aspect.
They are here as a safety thing, ie if someone/child accidently breaks one,
less chnce of getting cut up.
They are allegedly harder to break than normal glass.


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Default Spontaneous shattering of double glazed panels

On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 09:45:39 +0100, harryagain wrote:

I'm amazed about the roof panel.
Only the lower panels need to be toughened glass.
You might ask about this aspect.


Does seem odd.

They are here as a safety thing, ie if someone/child accidently breaks
one, less chnce of getting cut up.


By falling/pushed against it. You don't want to do that with ordinary
glass that breaks into loads of razor sharp daggers. You#ll stil get
cuts from the toughend granuals but you won't sever arteries of
ligaments.

They are allegedly harder to break than normal glass.


It's funny stuff toughed glass, it's understress all the time and
when it goes it goes. The trigger can be pretty small, a nice sharp
automatic centre punch can do it. But I've also witnessed a Special
Effects guy having quite some difficulty shattering a toughed car
windscreen. He started very cautious with gentle taps from a small
hammer and cold chisel, end up with a lump hammer and really giving
it some...

--
Cheers
Dave.



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Default Spontaneous shattering of double glazed panels

On 18/07/2014 14:04, Dave Liquorice wrote:
It's funny stuff toughed glass, it's understress all the time and
when it goes it goes. The trigger can be pretty small, a nice sharp
automatic centre punch can do it. But I've also witnessed a Special
Effects guy having quite some difficulty shattering a toughed car
windscreen. He started very cautious with gentle taps from a small
hammer and cold chisel, end up with a lump hammer and really giving
it some...

That sounds more like a laminated screen, which is often 2 sheets of
toughened glass with a sheet of plastic laminated in the middle.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.
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Default Spontaneous shattering of double glazed panels

On 17/07/2014 20:44, TonyB wrote:
replying to Dave Chapman , TonyB wrote:
dave wrote:

Hi all, We purchased an add-on conservatory from one of the large
UK suppliers about four years ago and since then we have really
enjoyed all of the benefits of a warm bright place to sit and relax
even when the weather outside is far from ideal. However, our
enjoyment has not been without its downside since one morning about 18
months ago when we went into the conservatory we noticed that the
inner glass of one of the many double-glazed panels had shattered into
'a million' pieces for no obvious reason. Since our conservatory
came with a 10 year warranty, we contacted the company, explained the
problem to them, which they accepted without any fuss, and they then
arranged for one of their fitters to come and replace the panel, which
they did a couple of weeks later. All was fine for another six
months then the inner glass of a different double-glazed panel
shattered overnight in a similar way. The conmpany responded in
exactly the same way and the new faulty panel was replaced under
warranty. A couple of days ago we were sitting quietly in the
conservatory when there was a loud bang and the inner glass of one of
the other double-glazed roof panels exploded and loads of fragments of
glass showered down around us. Now, for a third time, we have had to
contact the company who, once again and without asking any questions,
have ordered a new panel which will be installed during the next
couple of weeks. Wen I spoke to the company I asked if this was a
very common occurrence and was just told that 'yes, it happens'.
Should I be reassured with that casual answer? Why has it always been
the INNER of the panels that fails? Nothing can have dropped onto the
conservatory roof from above and we don't play any hard-ball sports in
the conservatory. All very strange. I've done a very close
inspection of the structure of the conservatory, paying particular
attention to the frames around the glass panels to see if any of them
have become distorted but I haven't seen anything that could explain
these three glass breakages. I'm grateful that the faulty panels
have been replaced (to date) without any hassle from the company and
at least I've got another seven years of warranty remaining so can
hope that any manufacturing faults in the glass of the remaining
panels will have come to light (pun intended!), one way or another,
before that warranty expires. I've done a lot of Googling on the
subject and discovered that spontaneous shattering of toughened glass
panels for no obvious reason is very common, both in the UK and around
the world. Sudden temperature changes don't seem to be the cause - the
general view seems to be that it just happens sometimes. One
explanation offered is that small impurities were in the glass during
the tempering process and these can 'grow' over time (months or years)
to a point when they cause the glass to shatter suddenly. I'd be
very interested to hear the comments of anyone else in this NG who
have experienced similar spontaneous shattering of double-glazed
panels and how the suppliers of the faulty panels have reacted. ATB
- Dave.




Hi Dave,

We have experienced exactly the same thing. We also have a conservatory
from a major supplier, fitted just under 4 years ago. Last June, we came
home to find the inside pane of one of the large glass side panels
completely shattered. No-one was in the house at the time. About two weeks
later another panel shattered in exactly the same fashion. Both panels
went on relatively cool days, so heat excessive heat expansion could not
be the cause.
To date the company has replaced the two panels without question. However;
last Sunday there was a terrific bang and we were horrified to find a
third panel has shattered - again the inside pane on another relatively
cool day and again, fortunately no-one was in the conservatory at the
time. This time the site manager visited and has quibbled about the
guarantee. He did not offer any kind of information, or have any idea as
to the cause, other than 'it happens' - more than that, he seemed
unwilling to undertake any investigation - not at all re-assuring. We are
pushing to get the panel replaced under the guarantee, as we think it is
down to impurities within the glass and is therefore clearly a
manufacturing fault.
We are not all reassured that it won't happen again. Each shattering has
left a fine carpet of very sharp glass fragments on the floor, even though
the panel has stayed intact in the frame. I am not reassured that it is
not potentially dangerous to either us, or our pet dog who likes to soak
up the warmth. We have asked for a full investigation, but it doesn't seem
as though this will be forthcoming.
I would be very interested to hear of other's experiences.

Kind regards,

Tony



I have had this happen with my conservatory....

It turned out to be subsidence of the dwarf walls, and thus the frames
were distorting, placing the glass under stress and then shattering.


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