In message , at
21:34:21 on Wed, 28 Aug 2013, John Rumm
remarked:
We are talking about someone remote working out you location. They
don't have access to the SSID or MAC address of the wifi router you are
using, hence they can't use it even if they had all of google's database.

An app just needs to use:

http://developer.android.com/referen.../WifiInfo.html

and send the result server-side. Although asking for your location is
probably quicker and easier, as that will combine information from GPS
(if switched on) and GSM, as well as wifi.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at
21:32:02 on Wed, 28 Aug 2013, John Rumm
remarked:
Google collect(ed) wireless nats with their streetview cars, and
combined it with addresses. For a time it was possible to get that info
from their database.

Not at all relevant from the point of view of someone at the other end
of the connection though.

If you connect to my server via wifi, I have no visibility of the SSID
that you are connected via.

But an application you are running on your server could ask my laptop
where it's located. And quite possibly in a way that "I" didn't realise
it was happening routinely.

The information google connected is only of use if you are at the wifi
end, where you can then relate an SSID (or possibly a MAC address) to a
geographic location. Something as the user you know anyway,

I often don't know where I, my laptop or my phone, am. That's why there
are location services.

but a handy hint for a passing satnav perhaps.

For example "where is the nearest bus stop", "log my position into
Foursquare", "in which direction is the GSM mast I'm connected to", and
so on. [And I never use my laptop or phone as a satnav, although clearly
one could if one wanted to].
--
Roland Perry

On 2013-08-26, Steve Firth wrote:

"ARW" wrote:

I told the apprentice that the black line on my satnav was the border of
Isengard. We were in Chester and travelling South on the A483 at the time.
He never questioned it.

If you kept going and got to London, he'd have to believe it.

http://www.tomdanvers.com/2012/04/mordor-via-bank/

Nice one, thanks.

On 2013-08-26, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 20:36:25 +0100, ARW wrote:

I told the apprentice that the black line on my satnav was the border of
Isengard. We were in Chester and travelling South on the A483 at the
time. He never questioned it.

You expect an apprentice to have read Tolkien?

You expect a lot...

A lot of people seem to think that tradesmen are illiterate yahoos. I
had an interesting chat a year or two ago with a plumber-gasfitter
about some books he saw on my shelf. I also saw a builder's van near
my house a couple of months ago with the complete works of Shakespeare
on the dashboard.

Adam Funk wrote:
On 2013-08-26, Steve Firth wrote:

"ARW" wrote:

I told the apprentice that the black line on my satnav was the border of
Isengard. We were in Chester and travelling South on the A483 at the time.
He never questioned it.

If you kept going and got to London, he'd have to believe it.

http://www.tomdanvers.com/2012/04/mordor-via-bank/

Nice one, thanks.

Made Oi Laarf because it was the first thought I had when I saw The Shard.

--
€¢DarWin|
_/ _/

On 29/08/2013 08:25, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
21:34:21 on Wed, 28 Aug 2013, John Rumm
remarked:
We are talking about someone remote working out you location. They
don't have access to the SSID or MAC address of the wifi router you
are using, hence they can't use it even if they had all of google's
database.

An app just needs to use:

http://developer.android.com/referen.../WifiInfo.html

Indeed - but an "app" is not a web page being rendered in a browser.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Adam Funk wrote:
On 2013-08-26, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 20:36:25 +0100, ARW wrote:

I told the apprentice that the black line on my satnav was the
border of Isengard. We were in Chester and travelling South on the
A483 at the time. He never questioned it.

You expect an apprentice to have read Tolkien?

You expect a lot...

A lot of people seem to think that tradesmen are illiterate yahoos. I
had an interesting chat a year or two ago with a plumber-gasfitter
about some books he saw on my shelf. I also saw a builder's van near
my house a couple of months ago with the complete works of Shakespeare
on the dashboard.

Many people are surprised when they find out that I enjoy going to the
ballet or watching a Shakespeare play (reading the complete works would be a
bit too much) although I do have a copy.

I noticed that some reincarnation of the Daily Sport has started to appear
in the snap cabin at work. It's the joiner that buys it. And there is nearly
always been a copy or two of The Sun and the Daily Star dotted around the
building site.

I decided to read the map on the wall giving directions to A&E. Much more
interesting as it sends you to the wrong hospital.

--
Adam

In message , at
20:13:32 on Thu, 29 Aug 2013, John Rumm
remarked:
We are talking about someone remote working out you location. They
don't have access to the SSID or MAC address of the wifi router you
are using, hence they can't use it even if they had all of google's
database.

An app just needs to use:

http://developer.android.com/referen.../WifiInfo.html

Indeed - but an "app" is not a web page being rendered in a browser.

Why does that matter? It's just a demonstration of the capability, which
can also be made available on other platforms.
--
Roland Perry

On 30/08/2013 09:30, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
20:13:32 on Thu, 29 Aug 2013, John Rumm
remarked:
We are talking about someone remote working out you location. They
don't have access to the SSID or MAC address of the wifi router you
are using, hence they can't use it even if they had all of google's
database.

An app just needs to use:

http://developer.android.com/referen.../WifiInfo.html

Indeed - but an "app" is not a web page being rendered in a browser.

Why does that matter? It's just a demonstration of the capability, which
can also be made available on other platforms.

There is quite a difference between attempting to capture location
information from people using normal web browsers, and doing the same
using code of your choosing running natively on the client's computer.

Just using wifi makes it no easier for someone at the server end to
capture your location with a normal web server. Obviously with a custom
app at the client end, you can get far more information from the OS and
pass it back.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , at
03:40:45 on Sat, 31 Aug 2013, John Rumm
remarked:
An app just needs to use:

http://developer.android.com/referen.../WifiInfo.html

Indeed - but an "app" is not a web page being rendered in a browser.

Why does that matter? It's just a demonstration of the capability, which
can also be made available on other platforms.

There is quite a difference between attempting to capture location
information from people using normal web browsers, and doing the same
using code of your choosing running natively on the client's computer.

Just using wifi makes it no easier for someone at the server end to
capture your location with a normal web server. Obviously with a custom
app at the client end, you can get far more information from the OS and
pass it back.

What concerns me is that the "code of [my] choosing" (running on the
client), could easily be something the user has innocently installed
themselves. Like a browser with "activate geolocation" ticked in the
options, let alone a feature built into the operating system.
--
Roland Perry

On 31/08/2013 08:05, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
03:40:45 on Sat, 31 Aug 2013, John Rumm
remarked:
An app just needs to use:

http://developer.android.com/referen.../WifiInfo.html

Indeed - but an "app" is not a web page being rendered in a browser.

Why does that matter? It's just a demonstration of the capability, which
can also be made available on other platforms.

There is quite a difference between attempting to capture location
information from people using normal web browsers, and doing the same
using code of your choosing running natively on the client's computer.

Just using wifi makes it no easier for someone at the server end to
capture your location with a normal web server. Obviously with a
custom app at the client end, you can get far more information from
the OS and pass it back.

What concerns me is that the "code of [my] choosing" (running on the
client), could easily be something the user has innocently installed
themselves. Like a browser with "activate geolocation" ticked in the
options, let alone a feature built into the operating system.

Sure - the usual warnings apply. Note only the "normal" risk of trojan
software, but even the "helpful" bonus applications so many vendors will
try and give you when you install something else and fail to until the
relevant boxes.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , at
16:40:05 on Sat, 31 Aug 2013, John Rumm
remarked:
What concerns me is that the "code of [my] choosing" (running on the
client), could easily be something the user has innocently installed
themselves. Like a browser with "activate geolocation" ticked in the
options, let alone a feature built into the operating system.

Sure - the usual warnings apply. Note only the "normal" risk of trojan
software, but even the "helpful" bonus applications so many vendors
will try and give you when you install something else and fail to until
the relevant boxes.

And worse than that, if your "normal" software has trojan aspects built
in.
--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 16:34:14 +0100, Artic wrote:

Artic scribbled...


The Natural Philosopher scribbled...



well the paranoia is justified as it got to within 2 miles of me.


And how many people live in those 8 sq miles?


******** - that should be 16 sm

Still wrong.

12.56637


--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On 05/09/13 01:08, Graham. wrote:
On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 16:34:14 +0100, Artic wrote:

Artic scribbled...

The Natural Philosopher scribbled...


well the paranoia is justified as it got to within 2 miles of me.

And how many people live in those 8 sq miles?

******** - that should be 16 sm
Still wrong.

12.56637


FSVO PI.

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.