I currently have a 90cm high run of steps running across the back of the house going down into the garden to a ground-level patio. The steps are bonkers steep, been left to go to hell with weathering and the patio looks like crap anyway. So, the wife-approved plan is a raised patio to the height of the initial step more or less like this:

http://www.colonialstone.com/index.p...mage_full/125/

The final area of the patio is quite large at 5x8 metres so I thought maybe concrete beams and blocks. They're pretty cheap and it would mean the new patio was very even and I could build a very slight slope for water to run off. I guess plan B would be filling the curtain wall with hardcore, but I do like the idea of learning to use some new materials.

Thoughts or counter suggestions anyone?

Jon

"Jon Connell" wrote in message
...
I currently have a 90cm high run of steps running across the back of the
house going down into the garden to a ground-level patio. The steps are
bonkers steep, been left to go to hell with weathering and the patio looks
like crap anyway. So, the wife-approved plan is a raised patio to the height
of the initial step more or less like this:

http://www.colonialstone.com/index.p...mage_full/125/

The final area of the patio is quite large at 5x8 metres so I thought maybe
concrete beams and blocks. They're pretty cheap and it would mean the new
patio was very even and I could build a very slight slope for water to run
off. I guess plan B would be filling the curtain wall with hardcore, but I
do like the idea of learning to use some new materials.

Thoughts or counter suggestions anyone?

Jon
A lot depends on access. Ify ou can get a tipper truck in there you could
get fill for a "curtsin wall" for free. Around 60 tons? =Four six wheel
lorry loads.

I would consider decking.

On Wednesday, 21 August 2013 19:30:36 UTC+1, harry wrote:
A lot depends on access.

1-2 metres down the side of the house :-(

I would consider decking.

Ah, but that would not be wife approved.

Jon Connell wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 August 2013 19:30:36 UTC+1, harry wrote:
A lot depends on access.

1-2 metres down the side of the house :-(


Barrowing huge volumes of MOT down there isn't much fun, I've done 40 tonne
and I can tell you, that was a bad day. ;-)

I would consider decking.

Ah, but that would not be wife approved.

I'd stick with the B&B, you've still got to get them round there, but
they're not that heavy really and there'd be less chance of the retaining
walls bellying out with the weight of 60t of hardcore.

I'd build centre walls for added strength if it were mine - you can use
shorter beams and there's less stress on the outer walls.

Don't forget, pre-stressed beams usually have a camber and you'll have to
factor this into your final levels WRT drainage etc

On 21/08/2013 19:42, Jon Connell wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 August 2013 19:30:36 UTC+1, harry wrote:
A lot depends on access.

1-2 metres down the side of the house :-(

I would consider decking.

Ah, but that would not be wife approved.

Its the only logical answer. Much less work, much cheaper, much better
for the environment.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 21/08/2013 19:53, Phil L wrote:
I'd build centre walls for added strength if it were mine - you can use
shorter beams and there's less stress on the outer walls.

I was expecting to do this anyway since I am spanning 5m and that a big
ol' chunk of concrete to lug round the back of the house.

Don't forget, pre-stressed beams usually have a camber and you'll have to
factor this into your final levels WRT drainage etc

Ah, useful to know. Thanks.

Jon Connell :
I currently have a 90cm high run of steps running across the back of
the house going down into the garden to a ground-level patio. The steps
are bonkers steep, been left to go to hell with weathering and the
patio looks like crap anyway. So, the wife-approved plan is a raised
patio to the height of the initial step more or less like this:

http://www.colonialstone.com/index.p...mage_full/125/

The final area of the patio is quite large at 5x8 metres so I thought
maybe concrete beams and blocks. They're pretty cheap and it would mean
the new patio was very even and I could build a very slight slope for
water to run off. I guess plan B would be filling the curtain wall with
hardcore, but I do like the idea of learning to use some new materials.

Thoughts or counter suggestions anyone?

I can't offer any solutions but I thank you for asking the question. I'm
in the same position as you, except that it's 400 mm not 900, and I
wasn't going to DIY. I had imagined it being filled with MOT or rubble,
and getting the tipper in there should be good test for the new cobbled
driveway that was put down by the same contractor.

--
Mike Barnes

On 22/08/2013 08:29, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 21/08/2013 19:42, Jon Connell wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 August 2013 19:30:36 UTC+1, harry wrote:
A lot depends on access.

1-2 metres down the side of the house :-(

I would consider decking.

Ah, but that would not be wife approved.

Its the only logical answer. Much less work, much cheaper, much better
for the environment.

But Jon's argument trumps all of those - and probably a few more besides.

On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 08:29:55 +0100, The Medway Handyman
wrote:

On 21/08/2013 19:42, Jon Connell wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 August 2013 19:30:36 UTC+1, harry wrote:
A lot depends on access.

1-2 metres down the side of the house :-(

I would consider decking.

Ah, but that would not be wife approved.

Its the only logical answer. Much less work, much cheaper, much better
for the environment.

And so "eighties". Awful stuff.

--
Frank Erskine

The Medway Handyman wrote:

On 21/08/2013 19:42, Jon Connell wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 August 2013 19:30:36 UTC+1, harry wrote:
A lot depends on access.

1-2 metres down the side of the house :-(

I would consider decking.

Ah, but that would not be wife approved.

Its the only logical answer. Much less work, much cheaper, much better
for the environment.

Either way, is this potentially a planning issue?

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/per...jects/decking/

Putting up decking, or other raised platforms, in your garden is permitted development, not needing an application for planning permission, providing:

The decking is no more than 30cm above the ground

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

On 22/08/2013 09:26, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Either way, is this potentially a planning issue?

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/per...jects/decking/

Putting up decking, or other raised platforms, in your garden is permitted development, not needing an application for planning permission, providing:

The decking is no more than 30cm above the ground

Good catch. I can think of no reason why it would be refused, but I
think you're right about it needing permission.

In article , Jon
Connell writes
I currently have a 90cm high run of steps running across the back of the house
going down into the garden to a ground-level patio. The steps are bonkers steep,
been left to go to hell with weathering and the patio looks like crap anyway. So, the
wife-approved plan is a raised patio to the height of the initial step more or less like
this:

http://www.colonialstone.com/index.p...mage_full/125/

The final area of the patio is quite large at 5x8 metres so I thought maybe concrete
beams and blocks. They're pretty cheap and it would mean the new patio was very
even and I could build a very slight slope for water to run off. I guess plan B would
be filling the curtain wall with hardcore, but I do like the idea of learning to use
some new materials.

Thoughts or counter suggestions anyone?

Sounds like a great idea, better suited to a pile than decking.

Rolling it over in my head I wondered about not fully beaming out the
floor but slabbing it and only putting beams at the slab joins, so only
supporting 2 edges. Then thought about bedding and moved from cement to
some kind of conformal foam (neoprene?) strip the width of the beams at
a thickness to avoid cobbling but thin enough so there was not constant
vertical movement. Thinking on how to grout the unsupported gaps -
don't, just butt the slabs and allow some drainage into the underspace.

I'd probably give some access to the underside for maintenance or to
deal with potential rodent or insect activity.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

On Thursday 22 August 2013 10:58 fred wrote in uk.d-i-y:

In article , Jon
Connell writes
I currently have a 90cm high run of steps running across the back of the
house going down into the garden to a ground-level patio. The steps are
bonkers steep, been left to go to hell with weathering and the patio looks
like crap anyway. So, the wife-approved plan is a raised patio to the
height of the initial step more or less like this:

http://www.colonialstone.com/index.p...mage_full/125/

The final area of the patio is quite large at 5x8 metres so I thought
maybe concrete beams and blocks. They're pretty cheap and it would mean
the new patio was very even and I could build a very slight slope for
water to run off. I guess plan B would be filling the curtain wall with
hardcore, but I do like the idea of learning to use some new materials.

Thoughts or counter suggestions anyone?

Sounds like a great idea, better suited to a pile than decking.

Rolling it over in my head I wondered about not fully beaming out the
floor but slabbing it and only putting beams at the slab joins, so only
supporting 2 edges. Then thought about bedding and moved from cement to
some kind of conformal foam (neoprene?) strip the width of the beams at
a thickness to avoid cobbling but thin enough so there was not constant
vertical movement. Thinking on how to grout the unsupported gaps -
don't, just butt the slabs and allow some drainage into the underspace.

I'd probably give some access to the underside for maintenance or to
deal with potential rodent or insect activity.

How about these:

http://www.wallbarn.com/products/roo...hes/mega-pads-
extended-height-paving-support-pads/

I'm assuming that you have an existing solid base?

Will not be cheaper but will be a lot easier than concrete beams.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Thursday 22 August 2013 11:13 Tim Watts wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Thursday 22 August 2013 10:58 fred wrote in uk.d-i-y:

In article , Jon
Connell writes
I currently have a 90cm high run of steps running across the back of the
house going down into the garden to a ground-level patio. The steps are
bonkers steep, been left to go to hell with weathering and the patio
looks like crap anyway. So, the wife-approved plan is a raised patio to
the height of the initial step more or less like this:

http://www.colonialstone.com/index.p...mage_full/125/

The final area of the patio is quite large at 5x8 metres so I thought
maybe concrete beams and blocks. They're pretty cheap and it would mean
the new patio was very even and I could build a very slight slope for
water to run off. I guess plan B would be filling the curtain wall with
hardcore, but I do like the idea of learning to use some new materials.

Thoughts or counter suggestions anyone?

Sounds like a great idea, better suited to a pile than decking.

Rolling it over in my head I wondered about not fully beaming out the
floor but slabbing it and only putting beams at the slab joins, so only
supporting 2 edges. Then thought about bedding and moved from cement to
some kind of conformal foam (neoprene?) strip the width of the beams at
a thickness to avoid cobbling but thin enough so there was not constant
vertical movement. Thinking on how to grout the unsupported gaps -
don't, just butt the slabs and allow some drainage into the underspace.

I'd probably give some access to the underside for maintenance or to
deal with potential rodent or insect activity.

How about these:

http://www.wallbarn.com/products/roo...hes/mega-pads-
extended-height-paving-support-pads/

I'm assuming that you have an existing solid base?

Will not be cheaper but will be a lot easier than concrete beams.


Supplier (for pricing):

http://www.roofingsuperstore.co.uk/b.../pave-support-
pads/adjustable-pave-support-pads.html

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Thursday, August 22, 2013 8:29:55 AM UTC+1, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 21/08/2013 19:42, Jon Connell wrote:

On Wednesday, 21 August 2013 19:30:36 UTC+1, harry wrote:

A lot depends on access.



1-2 metres down the side of the house :-(



I would consider decking.



Ah, but that would not be wife approved.



Its the only logical answer. Much less work, much cheaper, much better

for the environment.

& would need planning permission being more than 1ft off the ground?

would a raised patio also need PP?

Jim K

In article , Tim Watts
writes
On Thursday 22 August 2013 10:58 fred wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Rolling it over in my head I wondered about not fully beaming out the
floor but slabbing it and only putting beams at the slab joins, so only
supporting 2 edges. Then thought about bedding and moved from cement to
some kind of conformal foam (neoprene?) strip the width of the beams at
a thickness to avoid cobbling but thin enough so there was not constant
vertical movement. Thinking on how to grout the unsupported gaps -
don't, just butt the slabs and allow some drainage into the underspace.

How about these:

http://www.wallbarn.com/products/roo...hes/mega-pads-
extended-height-paving-support-pads/

I'm assuming that you have an existing solid base?

Will not be cheaper but will be a lot easier than concrete beams.

Certainly some nice ideas on that site, including rubber corner pads
that may help the chap on the other thread with the leaking balcony roof
- redo the fibreglass double thickness then protect it with lightweight
slabs on corner mounts, although I would worry about water stagnating in
the small gap under the slabs and getting smelly.

Back to main topic, I'd be a bit worried about having a large area of
slabs effectively on stilts and the o/p's finished height of up to 900mm
may be an issue. Also prices are hefty even for the short (220mm ones)
which would work out at 10quid a slab, tenner upwards each for 600mm? So
20quid a slab.

2.4m x 100 x 65mm prestressed lintels[1] are showing online at under
20quid in bulk so that's a fiver per slab (600mm sq) plus the cost of
the dwarf wall(s). Weight about 14kg/m so 33kg for 2.4m.

[1] normally used with bonded brick courses so not checked for loading
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .