Are they really worth the time re-capping these days?..

Not usually unless they are rare boards. I did some Ideq "cube" boards a
while back since getting replacements that fit the SFF cases is very
difficult.

OK..


Having said that, when you have the whole board with decent CPU and RAM
etc, then it can be worth it for a cheap upgrade on older systems if you
can recap them in 30 mins with a couple of quids worth of parts.

As duff caps are the main source of MB failures, but that factory I
believe has either closed or they have now re instated the missing
ingredient!...

Well that is what I heard as well, but have still been getting cap
failures on boards well after the time the dodgy ones were supposed to
be out of the supply channel.

That is a bit worrying are they duff made caps or just under rated
ones?.

We have some real vintage machines around at some remote locations. They
do very simple jobs just mail us id something plays up, years old are up
for hours and perform as well as they day they were made.

Not one bulging or leaking cap to be seen..

Not had any of the ones using so called "mil spec" metal can caps yet.
(not sure if they really are Mil spec - but they certainly seem better
than the normal radial electrolytics.

Yes indeed...
--
Tony Sayer

ah - memories :-)
However a quick check in the mirror does show up a few significant
diferences.
Also, allegedly, a **** is useful.

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2012-12-23, David WE Roberts wrote:
"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2012-12-22, Java Jive wrote:

On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 21:09:12 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Don't top post.

Why not?

Because it makes you look like a ****.

--
Today is Boomtime, the 65th day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3178
Don't do business with Churchill Insurance - they're slime.

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On 23/12/12 12:07, Huge wrote:
On 2012-12-23, David WE Roberts wrote:
"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2012-12-22, Java Jive wrote:

On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 21:09:12 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Don't top post.

Why not?

Because it makes you look like a ****.

Perhaps he want to look like that?


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 23/12/12 13:24, Tim Streater wrote:
In article
,
"Man at B&Q" wrote:

On Dec 22, 5:20 pm, wrote:
charles wrote:
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:

OK .. there is an outfit round here who has a hard drive
"mincer" it
does just that . His firm collects PC's takes the hard drives
out and
puts them in a machine that literally minces them into small
chunks!..

We once tried to wreck some hard drives but hitting them with a
hammer
and throwing them at the floor not dropping them, throwing them.
It was
very surprising just how robust they were even with that treatment.

when I took the hard drive out of a desktop machine I then undid some
screws and removed the cover and then the disk. It can be bent by
putting
it in vice and htting it witha hammer. Some of the coating flakes
off, too.

cheaper than paying someone to use a 'mincer'.

I really have never fathomed out why people are so paranoid about
what's left on their disk drives. The same stuff is almost certainly
spread all around the internet anyway and a proper low level format
will erase sufficiently that no one except MI5/MI6 will have the time,
money and equipment to get any data off the drive.

Same reason they are so paranoid about viruses. The media make the
problem appear much worse than it really is.

People *should* be concerned not to give away a drive that might contain
passwords, CC numbers, names and addresses, etc.

Rather than a low-level format, writing zeroes all over the drive (Disk
Utility will do that for you) is a better bet.

and bang goes Windows, and all the resale value.

Or if you have the ability to reinstall that's only about 10 hours per
machine - bang goes any resale profit.

One option is to strip the disks, crush them, and replace and reinstall
Linux of course.

If you can still get suitable disks..

Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 23/12/2012 00:34, John Rumm wrote:
With the ascendancy of flash based drives and their excess hidden
capacity used for wear levelling, there is not even a guarantee that
overwriting the data will actually make it all unrecoverable.

Most flash drives come with a secure erase utility.

Andy

On 23/12/2012 21:44, Andy Champ wrote:
On 23/12/2012 00:34, John Rumm wrote:
With the ascendancy of flash based drives and their excess hidden
capacity used for wear levelling, there is not even a guarantee that
overwriting the data will actually make it all unrecoverable.

Most flash drives come with a secure erase utility.

For some values of "most" perhaps - don't think I have ever bought one
that came with any utilities.

If the controller supports secure erase, then with the right software,
one should be able to do the erase with some degree of confidence.
Assuming the person doing the erase is aware of the need and the
different procedure.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

in 1189716 20121223 120710 Huge wrote:
On 2012-12-23, David WE Roberts wrote:
"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2012-12-22, Java Jive wrote:

On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 21:09:12 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Don't top post.

Why not?

Because it makes you look like a ****.

No it doesn't, but your response certainly makes you look stupid.

On Dec 18, 8:46*pm, robgraham wrote:
I've Dell Dimension 5000 which must be in the order of 7 or 8 years
old. *There's no problems with it apart from it being bit slow on
photo processing, which is the only processor intensive activity I do
apart form a bit of SketchUp and that seems OK.

Is it new wine into old bottles to consider a motherboard/processor
upgrade ? *If it's worth doing how do I work out what board type is in
it at the moment and what would I be best to look for ? *I'm quite
happy to go the Ebay path and look for someone else's upgrading cast-
off.

Thanks for any help

Rob

OK guys, lets go back to square one where this enquiry started. If I
go to WOC, say, looking for a box that has a M/B + memory and a PSU in
it, which is all I need in that I have perfectly good DVD drives and a
new H/D already, what ....

1 M/B do I go for ?
2 Do I need a video card ?

I did a trial run on WOC for such and ended up spending over £500,
which doesn't quite match up with the £250 that was being quoted as
typical.

Rob

On 24/12/12 22:19, robgraham wrote:
On Dec 18, 8:46 pm, robgraham wrote:
I've Dell Dimension 5000 which must be in the order of 7 or 8 years
old. There's no problems with it apart from it being bit slow on
photo processing, which is the only processor intensive activity I do
apart form a bit of SketchUp and that seems OK.

Is it new wine into old bottles to consider a motherboard/processor
upgrade ? If it's worth doing how do I work out what board type is in
it at the moment and what would I be best to look for ? I'm quite
happy to go the Ebay path and look for someone else's upgrading cast-
off.

Thanks for any help

Rob

OK guys, lets go back to square one where this enquiry started. If I
go to WOC, say, looking for a box that has a M/B + memory and a PSU in
it, which is all I need in that I have perfectly good DVD drives and a
new H/D already, what ....

1 M/B do I go for ?
go for the cheapest one with processor in and the cheapest mini case/

2 Do I need a video card ?

Not if you are not gaming. full screen flash may struggle a bit too.
Otherwise get the cheapests NVidia (geoforce)

I did a trial run on WOC for such and ended up spending over £500,
which doesn't quite match up with the £250 that was being quoted as
typical.


You buy too high.

cheapest case.
Cheapst M'board with processor.
4GB ram
cheap geoforce card.

SATA disk
DVD R/W - cheapest.

Windows if you want it.





Rob



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 24/12/12 22:24, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/12/12 22:19, robgraham wrote:
On Dec 18, 8:46 pm, robgraham wrote:
I've Dell Dimension 5000 which must be in the order of 7 or 8
years old. There's no problems with it apart from it being bit
slow on photo processing, which is the only processor intensive
activity I do apart form a bit of SketchUp and that seems OK.

Is it new wine into old bottles to consider a
motherboard/processor upgrade ? If it's worth doing how do I
work out what board type is in it at the moment and what would I
be best to look for ? I'm quite happy to go the Ebay path and
look for someone else's upgrading cast- off.

Thanks for any help

Rob

OK guys, lets go back to square one where this enquiry started. If
I go to WOC, say, looking for a box that has a M/B + memory and a
PSU in it, which is all I need in that I have perfectly good DVD
drives and a new H/D already, what ....

1 M/B do I go for ?
go for the cheapest one with processor in and the cheapest mini
case/

2 Do I need a video card ?

Not if you are not gaming. full screen flash may struggle a bit too.
Otherwise get the cheapests NVidia (geoforce)

I did a trial run on WOC for such and ended up spending over £500,
which doesn't quite match up with the £250 that was being quoted
as typical.


You buy too high.

cheapest case. Cheapst M'board with processor. 4GB ram cheap geoforce
card.

SATA disk DVD R/W - cheapest.

Windows if you want it.



This is what I came up with - includes windows and no video card.

But unless you need to run windows to support some application, I'd
install Linux.

G550V Intel® DH61CR inc Intel® Celeron® 2.6GHz 2MB Cache Intel® HD
Graphics £74
Micro-ATX Micro Tower ATX Case High Efficiency 80Plus 300W PSU £46
KVR1333D3N9/4G 4GB 1333MHz DDR3 Non-ECC CL9 DIMM £14
ST250DM000 Seagate Barracuda 250GB 3.5" 7200RPM 16MB SATA 6Gb/s £40
SH-W163A-BL Samsung Internal 22xDVD-RW SATA Black £18
Win8-64 Microsoft OEM Windows 8 64Bit £74
Total ex-vat £266.00
Total inc-vat £319.20





Rob





--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

and bang goes Windows, and all the resale value.


Legally you can't sell on Windows anyway (so it SHOULDN'T matter if you
have wiped the drive). Legally (morally is a different matter) you
haven't bought it merely bought a license to use it.

On 24/12/2012 22:19, robgraham wrote:
On Dec 18, 8:46 pm, robgraham wrote:
I've Dell Dimension 5000 which must be in the order of 7 or 8 years
old. There's no problems with it apart from it being bit slow on
photo processing, which is the only processor intensive activity I do
apart form a bit of SketchUp and that seems OK.

Is it new wine into old bottles to consider a motherboard/processor
upgrade ? If it's worth doing how do I work out what board type is in
it at the moment and what would I be best to look for ? I'm quite
happy to go the Ebay path and look for someone else's upgrading cast-
off.

Thanks for any help

Rob

OK guys, lets go back to square one where this enquiry started. If I
go to WOC, say, looking for a box that has a M/B + memory and a PSU in
it, which is all I need in that I have perfectly good DVD drives and a
new H/D already, what ....

1 M/B do I go for ?
2 Do I need a video card ?

For example - looking at my normal supplier:

KINGSTON 4GB 1333MHz PC3-10600 DDR3 CL9 DIMM MEMORY

ASUS P8H61-MX USB3, INTEL H61, MATX, LGA1155, 2 D3 1333, VGA, DVI, 1 X
PCIE16, USB3

INTEL CORE I3-2120 DUAL CORE,1155, 3.3GHZ, SANDY BRIDGE, HD GFX, 5GTS,
3MB CACHE

AOPEN MICRO ATX CASE, H425E, 400W PSU, BLACK, FRONT USB AND AUDIO


I could do you for £193 inc VAT & delivery


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

soup wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote

and bang goes Windows, and all the resale value.

Legally you can't sell on Windows anyway

Thats not correct. Legally you can sell on anything you paid for.

(so it SHOULDN'T matter if you have wiped the drive).

Fraid so.

Legally (morally is a different matter) you haven't bought it merely
bought a license to use it.

Just because someone claims that doesnt make it legally gospel.

in 1190195 20121225 044546 "Rod Speed" wrote:
soup wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote

and bang goes Windows, and all the resale value.

Legally you can't sell on Windows anyway

Thats not correct. Legally you can sell on anything you paid for.

That's nonsense!
I can't sell my TV licence, my road tax disc - or my last haircut!

Bob Martin wrote
Rod Speed wrote
soup wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote

and bang goes Windows, and all the resale value.

Legally you can't sell on Windows anyway

That's not correct. Legally you can sell on anything you paid for.

That's nonsense!
I can't sell my TV licence, my road tax disc - or my last haircut!

Wrong, as always.

Rod Speed wrote:

Thats not correct. Legally you can sell on anything you paid for.

Correct (to a point), but you HAVEN'T paid for Windows you pay for a
license to use it.

soup wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Thats not correct. Legally you can sell on anything you paid for.

Correct (to a point),

Completely correct with goods.

but you HAVEN'T paid for Windows you pay for a license to use it.

Just because someone claims that its a
license, doesnt make it a license, legally.

On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 17:17:48 +0000, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

and bang goes Windows, and all the resale value.

This is rubbish.

You can reinstall Windows from any suitable source, possibly even an
illegal copy, and then run ...
KeyUpdateTool_enu.exe
.... to enter the correct key from the label on the PC.

As an example, this PC is an old Dell Latitude 610 laptop, onto which
I sysprep-ed my standard Windows 2000 build, the same build as I use
on my desktops, which I then upgraded using an OEM XP SP3 installation
disk which won't of itself pass as Genuine Windows*, yet it is now,
using the above tool, authenticated as genuine XP using the original
authentication code from the label on the bottom of the machine, and
is fully updated, etc.

So I've got to use my original 2k build, with all the software
painstakingly installed just how I wanted it, etc, as XP. This means
that I've been able to install the drivers and software for my new
mobile phone, and one or two more modern pieces of software, but
without having to create a completely new build for XP. It may not
seem much, but, AFAIAC, it's something of a coup!

* It was acquired via eBay in the expectation of it being usable in
its own right from a sh*t who left eBay the moment he'd sold it - it
turned out that, being OEM, it could be only be used by the OEM firm
on the original OEM software, and could not be sold on for use on
different hardware, and anyway Microshaft will not now authenticate
any new versions of XP, even those in sealed packaging for which the
key was never used.

It may be possible to authenticate on a *different* PC *retail*
versions of XP acquired second-hand, I'm not sure, but certainly *OEM*
versions will only authenticate on the *same hardware* as originally
authenticated upon.

Not on any of *my* disks.

A linux, or perhaps a Mac, user, presumably.

I'm still trying to decide what to do with my new Dell Inspiron R SE,
which came with W8, but is now running W7. Now that I've got this one
running XP, do I really need it? Perhaps not, and I hate the more
recent versions of Windows so much that I only use the Inspiron for
media playback. I might sell it on, but that would mean having to
reinstall W8, or I might try to put Linux on it.
--
================================================== =======
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html

Rod Speed wrote:

Just because someone claims that its a
license, doesnt make it a license, legally.

Even if that someone is the seller?

The only time you can "give on" Windows software is if you have
purchased the OEM system builder license

soup wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Just because someone claims that its a
license, doesnt make it a license, legally.

Even if that someone is the seller?

Yep. If the seller of a physical book claims that you have
only bought a license to read the book and that you
can not lend the physical book to anyone, or re sell it,
that hasnt changed a damned thing legally, you are
still free to do anything you like with that physical book,
including wipe your arse with pages from it if you like.

The only time you can "give on" Windows software is if you have purchased
the OEM system builder license

Legally, thats just plain wrong.

On Dec 25, 2:49*am, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/12/2012 22:19, robgraham wrote:









On Dec 18, 8:46 pm, robgraham wrote:
I've Dell Dimension 5000 which must be in the order of 7 or 8 years
old. *There's no problems with it apart from it being bit slow on
photo processing, which is the only processor intensive activity I do
apart form a bit of SketchUp and that seems OK.

Is it new wine into old bottles to consider a motherboard/processor
upgrade ? *If it's worth doing how do I work out what board type is in
it at the moment and what would I be best to look for ? *I'm quite
happy to go the Ebay path and look for someone else's upgrading cast-
off.

Thanks for any help

Rob

OK guys, lets go back to square one where this enquiry started. *If I
go to WOC, say, looking for a box that has a M/B + memory and a PSU in
it, which is all I need in that I have perfectly good DVD drives and a
new H/D already, what ....

1 * *M/B do I go for ?
2 * *Do I need a video card ?

For example - looking at my normal supplier:

KINGSTON 4GB 1333MHz PC3-10600 DDR3 CL9 DIMM MEMORY

ASUS P8H61-MX USB3, INTEL H61, MATX, LGA1155, 2 D3 1333, VGA, DVI, 1 X
PCIE16, USB3

INTEL CORE I3-2120 DUAL CORE,1155, 3.3GHZ, SANDY BRIDGE, HD GFX, 5GTS,
3MB CACHE

AOPEN MICRO ATX CASE, H425E, 400W PSU, BLACK, FRONT USB AND AUDIO

I could do you for £193 inc VAT & delivery

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| * * * * *Internode Ltd - *http://www.internode.co.uk* * * * * *|
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| * * * *John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk * * * * * * *|
\================================================= ================/

Many thanks guys - helps a lot. Valid questions though

1 Forgetting for the moment about Linux as I don't want any further
hassles (TNP - will probably go down that way for an old laptop for
the workshop - out of interest will SketchUp work on Linux ?) - what
is the advantage of 64 bit Windows 7 over 32 bit as most of the
software I'll be porting across runs on XP at the moment.

2 Does the increase on operating power to deal with the photo
processing I want speeded up come from the faster RAM or the several
cores in the processor?

Rob

On 26/12/12 17:54, robgraham wrote:
On Dec 25, 2:49 am, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/12/2012 22:19, robgraham wrote:









On Dec 18, 8:46 pm, robgraham wrote:
I've Dell Dimension 5000 which must be in the order of 7 or 8 years
old. There's no problems with it apart from it being bit slow on
photo processing, which is the only processor intensive activity I do
apart form a bit of SketchUp and that seems OK.

Is it new wine into old bottles to consider a motherboard/processor
upgrade ? If it's worth doing how do I work out what board type is in
it at the moment and what would I be best to look for ? I'm quite
happy to go the Ebay path and look for someone else's upgrading cast-
off.

Thanks for any help

Rob

OK guys, lets go back to square one where this enquiry started. If I
go to WOC, say, looking for a box that has a M/B + memory and a PSU in
it, which is all I need in that I have perfectly good DVD drives and a
new H/D already, what ....

1 M/B do I go for ?
2 Do I need a video card ?

For example - looking at my normal supplier:

KINGSTON 4GB 1333MHz PC3-10600 DDR3 CL9 DIMM MEMORY

ASUS P8H61-MX USB3, INTEL H61, MATX, LGA1155, 2 D3 1333, VGA, DVI, 1 X
PCIE16, USB3

INTEL CORE I3-2120 DUAL CORE,1155, 3.3GHZ, SANDY BRIDGE, HD GFX, 5GTS,
3MB CACHE

AOPEN MICRO ATX CASE, H425E, 400W PSU, BLACK, FRONT USB AND AUDIO

I could do you for £193 inc VAT & delivery

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Many thanks guys - helps a lot. Valid questions though

1 Forgetting for the moment about Linux as I don't want any further
hassles (TNP - will probably go down that way for an old laptop for
the workshop - out of interest will SketchUp work on Linux ?) - what
is the advantage of 64 bit Windows 7 over 32 bit as most of the
software I'll be porting across runs on XP at the moment.


bit fastrer screen draw if you are running 32 bit apps.

2 Does the increase on operating power to deal with the photo
processing I want speeded up come from the faster RAM or the several
cores in the processor?


mostly the processor and the 64 bitness.

As long as the ram is big enough to hold the picture.

RAM doesn't speed things up. _Lack_ of ram, however, slows things down,
as you then have to use the disk instead.




Rob



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

"robgraham" wrote in message
...
On Dec 25, 2:49 am, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/12/2012 22:19, robgraham wrote:









On Dec 18, 8:46 pm, robgraham wrote:
I've Dell Dimension 5000 which must be in the order of 7 or 8 years
old. There's no problems with it apart from it being bit slow on
photo processing, which is the only processor intensive activity I do
apart form a bit of SketchUp and that seems OK.

Is it new wine into old bottles to consider a motherboard/processor
upgrade ? If it's worth doing how do I work out what board type is in
it at the moment and what would I be best to look for ? I'm quite
happy to go the Ebay path and look for someone else's upgrading cast-
off.

Thanks for any help

Rob

OK guys, lets go back to square one where this enquiry started. If I
go to WOC, say, looking for a box that has a M/B + memory and a PSU in
it, which is all I need in that I have perfectly good DVD drives and a
new H/D already, what ....

1 M/B do I go for ?
2 Do I need a video card ?

For example - looking at my normal supplier:

KINGSTON 4GB 1333MHz PC3-10600 DDR3 CL9 DIMM MEMORY

ASUS P8H61-MX USB3, INTEL H61, MATX, LGA1155, 2 D3 1333, VGA, DVI, 1 X
PCIE16, USB3

INTEL CORE I3-2120 DUAL CORE,1155, 3.3GHZ, SANDY BRIDGE, HD GFX, 5GTS,
3MB CACHE

AOPEN MICRO ATX CASE, H425E, 400W PSU, BLACK, FRONT USB AND AUDIO

I could do you for £193 inc VAT & delivery

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Many thanks guys - helps a lot. Valid questions though

1 Forgetting for the moment about Linux as I don't want any further
hassles (TNP - will probably go down that way for an old laptop for
the workshop - out of interest will SketchUp work on Linux ?) - what
is the advantage of 64 bit Windows 7 over 32 bit as most of the
software I'll be porting across runs on XP at the moment.

Mainly being able to use more than 4GB of physical ram.

2 Does the increase on operating power to deal with the photo
processing I want speeded up come from the faster RAM or the several
cores in the processor?

Not so much faster ram as more ram, particularly with some
apps used for photo processing, and more faster cores too.

Rod Speed wrote:

Yep. If the seller of a physical book claims that you have
only bought a license to read the book and that you
can not lend the physical book to anyone, or re sell it,
that hasnt changed a damned thing legally, you are
still free to do anything you like with that physical book,
including wipe your arse with pages from it if you like.

But they haven't sold you a copy of Windows( a physical book in your
analogy). They have sold you a LICENSE to use Windows.
In keeping with your analogy the seller doesn't sell you the book they
sell you the right to read it


Anyway this is getting (getting?) fairly circular so we will just
have to agree to differ; me and Microsoft (and their team of highly paid
lawyers)on one side , and you with your opinion on the other.

soup wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:

Yep. If the seller of a physical book claims that you have
only bought a license to read the book and that you
can not lend the physical book to anyone, or re sell it,
that hasn't changed a damned thing legally, you are
still free to do anything you like with that physical book,
including wipe your arse with pages from it if you like.

But they haven't sold you a copy of Windows( a physical book in your
analogy). They have sold you a LICENSE to use Windows.
In keeping with your analogy the seller doesn't sell you the book they
sell you the right to read it



Reading classes?

--
Adam

ARW wrote:
soup wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:

Yep. If the seller of a physical book claims that you have
only bought a license to read the book and that you
can not lend the physical book to anyone, or re sell it,
that hasn't changed a damned thing legally, you are
still free to do anything you like with that physical book,
including wipe your arse with pages from it if you like.

But they haven't sold you a copy of Windows( a physical book in your
analogy). They have sold you a LICENSE to use Windows.
In keeping with your analogy the seller doesn't sell you the book they
sell you the right to read it



Reading classes?

Eh?

soup wrote:
ARW wrote:
soup wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:

Yep. If the seller of a physical book claims that you have
only bought a license to read the book and that you
can not lend the physical book to anyone, or re sell it,
that hasn't changed a damned thing legally, you are
still free to do anything you like with that physical book,
including wipe your arse with pages from it if you like.

But they haven't sold you a copy of Windows( a physical book in
your analogy). They have sold you a LICENSE to use Windows.
In keeping with your analogy the seller doesn't sell you the book
they sell you the right to read it



Reading classes?

Eh?

Speedo has read less books than Champion the Wonder Horse.

--
Adam

soup wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Yep. If the seller of a physical book claims that you have
only bought a license to read the book and that you
can not lend the physical book to anyone, or re sell it,
that hasnt changed a damned thing legally, you are
still free to do anything you like with that physical book,
including wipe your arse with pages from it if you like.

But they haven't sold you a copy of Windows

Yes they have, legally. And I have the same legal rights
on merchantable quality, fitness for purpose and goods
matching and warranty as I have with the physical book
too, whatever some crap that I couldnt even see till I
opened the packaging might claim.

( a physical book in your analogy). They have sold you a LICENSE to use
Windows.

Just claiming that is irrelevant, legally,
just like with the physical book.

In keeping with your analogy the seller doesn't sell you the book they
sell you the right to read it

Irrelevant to what legal rights you have to sell it to
someone else when you have read it, or lend it to
someone else to read, whatever it might claim
inside the book.

Anyway this is getting (getting?) fairly circular

Nope, you have found that you cannot sustain your claims.

so we will just have to agree to differ;

I do not agree to do anything of the sort. You are just plain wrong.

me and Microsoft (and their team of highly paid lawyers)on one side ,

Even Microsoft's team of high paid lawyers do not agree with you.

Their EULA says very explicitly indeed that what matters is the law
in the jurisdiction that matters, not the wording in there when they
are in conflict, and in both yours and mine, you are welcome to
sell the copy of Windows that is on the hardware that you are
selling if you paid for that copy of Windows in the first place.

and you with your opinion on the other.

It is not my opinion, it is the law.

On 26/12/2012 17:54, robgraham wrote:

Many thanks guys - helps a lot. Valid questions though

1 Forgetting for the moment about Linux as I don't want any further
hassles (TNP - will probably go down that way for an old laptop for
the workshop - out of interest will SketchUp work on Linux ?) - what

There is a Max and Win version - not sure about *nix

is the advantage of 64 bit Windows 7 over 32 bit as most of the
software I'll be porting across runs on XP at the moment.

The main advantage of 64 bit being the ability to address more than 4GB
of physical memory space - and a bit more computational oomph for some
applications like image processing. It used to be that driver support
was poor in 64bit versions of windows, but that is less of an issue in
Win7.

If you are going to run lots of XP stuff, you could go for Win 7 Pro
that includes XP compatibility mode (i.e. basically a complete XP VM you
can download that lets you run a legal copy of XP inside Win 7)

2 Does the increase on operating power to deal with the photo
processing I want speeded up come from the faster RAM or the several
cores in the processor?

With apps like photoshop you will get a performance boost from several
directions. an i5 (true quad core CPU) gives you more cores to through
at a job that is well suited to parallel processing. The extra address
space in windows 64 bit means its easy to address enough physical RAM to
save needing to page, and gfx is an application where the extra word
size can actually help (not all apps benefit from being able to work on
number larger than 32 bit at a time). Faster RAM and more CPU cache also
helps speed things up.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 23/12/12 13:24, Tim Streater wrote:
In article
,
"Man at B&Q" wrote:

On Dec 22, 5:20 pm, wrote:
charles wrote:
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:

OK .. there is an outfit round here who has a hard drive
"mincer" it
does just that . His firm collects PC's takes the hard drives
out and
puts them in a machine that literally minces them into small
chunks!..

We once tried to wreck some hard drives but hitting them with a
hammer
and throwing them at the floor not dropping them, throwing them.
It was
very surprising just how robust they were even with that
treatment.

when I took the hard drive out of a desktop machine I then undid
some
screws and removed the cover and then the disk. It can be bent by
putting
it in vice and htting it witha hammer. Some of the coating flakes
off, too.

cheaper than paying someone to use a 'mincer'.

I really have never fathomed out why people are so paranoid about
what's left on their disk drives. The same stuff is almost certainly
spread all around the internet anyway and a proper low level format
will erase sufficiently that no one except MI5/MI6 will have the time,
money and equipment to get any data off the drive.

Same reason they are so paranoid about viruses. The media make the
problem appear much worse than it really is.

People *should* be concerned not to give away a drive that might contain
passwords, CC numbers, names and addresses, etc.

Rather than a low-level format, writing zeroes all over the drive (Disk
Utility will do that for you) is a better bet.

and bang goes Windows, and all the resale value.

Not if you have enough of a clue to be able to reinstall
Win again after you have zeroed the drive using the
same number that was installed there in the first place.

Or if you have the ability to reinstall that's only about 10 hours per
machine

Doesnt take anything like that long and the bulk of
the time taken you can be doing other systems anyway.

- bang goes any resale profit.

Fraid not.

One option is to strip the disks, crush them,

Thats completely pointless compared with just zeroing the contents.

and replace and reinstall Linux of course.

If you can still get suitable disks..

You dont have to if you arent stupid enough to crush them in the first
place.

Rod Speed wrote:
soup wrote
me and Microsoft (and their team of highly paid lawyers)on one side
Even Microsoft's team of high paid lawyers do not agree with you.

From the EULA in plain English:-
http://www.slated.org/windows_xp_eula_in_plain_english

" When someone buys Windows XP Home, they do not own anything. Instead
they are licensing it from Microsoft."


You may now have the last word.

"soup" wrote in message
...
Rod Speed wrote:
soup wrote
me and Microsoft (and their team of highly paid lawyers)on one side
Even Microsoft's team of high paid lawyers do not agree with you.

From the EULA in plain English:-
http://www.slated.org/windows_xp_eula_in_plain_english

" When someone buys Windows XP Home, they do not own anything. Instead
they are licensing it from Microsoft."

Just because someone claims something, doesnt make it legally gospel.

And they also say that nothing in the EULA conflicts with
local law, and your original about not being allowed to
resell at all does in almost all modern first world jurisdictions.